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[Almighty Doer of Stuff]

I've never understood it. I'm a fan of all of Yoko's work that I've ever seen, read, or heard. Sure, I thought when I first heard her line in "The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill" that it was one of the Beatles doing a bad impression of a woman's voice, but I don't find it grating or anything. I loved "Whole Lotta Yoko" as I've explained in the thread about The Who. "Grapefruit" is one of my favorite books.

Is it just because she helped John realize that he had sharp artistic differences from the other Beatles and therefore supposedly broke up the band? I'm sure he would have figured it out on his own anyway, and I'd say Paul had just as much, if not more, to do with the breakup of the band as Yoko did.

So I'm a Yoko fan. Why the hate?

[I_Will]

I don't hate Yoko, I'm just not a fan of her artistic endeavors. Also, I think it was simply unacceptable the way she actually put a bed into Abbey Road studios while The Beatles were recording.

[Jai Guru Deva.]

Finally, a thread about Yoko that actually makes sense to me, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even have much of Yoko's work.
I'm fed up of people saying that it was her fault that The Beatles broke up, and her fault that John was so harrassed by the press in his later life, like she changed him into something terrible.
Think about John's life.  He lost BOTH parents, even if his dad did come worming back at some point.  Can you imagine what it's like to be a teenager with no parents?  John didn't know how to react to things when he was young, because he had no one he really trusted to show his feelings to, so he bottled it up and ended up being very abrasive at times, and dare I say it, hurting people.
I don't mean to demean Cynthia with this, because I quite like her as a person, but I think John and Cyn just happened wrong, if you know what I mean?  I'm not sure John would have got married and had children anywhere near the age they did, but it happened and though it wasn't a mistake, I'm sure John felt a little trapped or worse, isolated because of it.
Then the whole entity of Beatles itself took over all four of the boys' lives, so much so that even though they did have great times, they suffered too.  I wouldn't blame them for taking it personally when the audience made so much racket and never let them walk two paces without mobbing them.  It made their music seem unimportant, like The Beatles were only a media focus-point rather than an artistic thing worth listening to.
So how, after all of that, can you scorn John for taking refuge in someone who loved him?  I know I don't know John properly, but I'm pretty sure Yoko was a massive stronghold for him.  And anyway, you know what it's like when you fall in love with something for the first time...  it's ALL you think and dream about, and no one has the right to deny John the comfort he so desperately needed all those years and never got.  And anyway, what exactly did Yoko do?  Love him?  Care for him?  Defend him?  What's so wrong about that?
And where the band is concerned, there is NO SINGLE PERSON responsible for that.  The Beatles themselves did a lot of it.  The media did some of it.  The fans did some of it.  There is no single person responsible for the breakup of The Beatles, and considering the scale of The Beatles importance to society and history, I don't think anyone has the right to pin it on anyone either.

*Rant over*

xxx

[Oomu]

I absolutely agree with JGD on all points. I like what Yoko did for John and recognize that she was hugely important to him, and for that reason I actually like watching the two of them together. But I also agree that a lot of the stuff she did during the Let It Be period (bed in the studio, and saying things that put focus on John and made the Beatles seem unimportant) WAS unacceptable, and that she was all too glad to help John alienate his bandmates.

Not to mention that horrible stuff with Julian - she treated him AWFUL and that will always be a point of contention with me.

And of her as a person, I have to say that every now and then she has some pretty good input on the world, and can be pretty wise - I'll even admit to following her on Twitter.  Although - her artwork does absolutely nothing for me, and her voice... Well.

[Wonderland]

I totally agree with Jai Guru Deva.

I haven't formed an opinion on the whole situation with Yoko & Julian after John died. I know it was unfair, but I don't understand why it's an enormous deal. Maybe it's because I'm young, who knows?

And I agree with Oomu, I like the things Yoko says.

[Mairi]

I'm not a fan of her music, but that's not reallt the source of my contention with Yoko. It mostly has to do with her treatment of Julian. We all know how horrible she was to him after John died- refusing to give him his inheritance or mementoes that were in John's will. She put up John's things for auction and Julian had to buy them back with the little money he was given. Even before then she went to great lengths to form a wedge between him and John. Making sure John didn't get his calls, etc.

And we can't ignore the way she whored out John's name after he died. The baby products line- really? And the jewlery? Was that something John would have actually endorsed?

People say that Yoko was John's muse, and that she opened his mind. But really, I think she just encouraged his a**hole tendencies.

[Oomu]

Ooh, the "whoring of John's name" (great expression, ha) didn't even occur to me, dunno why. I can't stand the way she lives off her husband's legacy, when half the stuff she endorses are things he never would have agreed to. Some decisions she makes are good but for the most part you just gotta wonder what she's thinking, or whether she actually has John's legacy in mind, or her own. =/ For example, that ridiculous ad where they manipulated video and sound to make it look like John was asking us to donate money to... send laptops to African children? Although I suppose that at least is better than jewelry and baby products.

[Jane]

I've never understood it. I'm a fan of all of Yoko's work that I've ever seen, read, or heard. "Grapefruit" is one of my favorite books.

Is it just because she helped John realize that he had sharp artistic differences from the other Beatles and therefore supposedly broke up the band? I'm sure he would have figured it out on his own anyway, and I'd say Paul had just as much, if not more, to do with the breakup of the band as Yoko did.

Please, what exactly do you like in Yoko`s work? What is special about it? There exist opinions that her work has no artistic value. Like an empty ballon. As for me, I don`t know.
I am sure she didn`t ruin the band. Or better, it was as mush her fault as John`s, Paul`s, Linda`s and the Eastmans`. Then comes George. I would even say it was more the Eastmans` fault.

[Jane]

I don't hate Yoko, I'm just not a fan of her artistic endeavors. Also, I think it was simply unacceptable the way she actually put a bed into Abbey Road studios while The Beatles were recording.

This was a very bad idea. But John let her do it. I think she drilled into him the thought that they should never separate, not more than for 5 minutes. You remember she followed him everywhere, even stood by the bathroom door waiting for him. And John happened to be blind with love.

[Jane]

I'm fed up of people saying that it was her fault that The Beatles broke up, and her fault that John was so harrassed by the press in his later life, like she changed him into something terrible.
Think about John's life.  He lost BOTH parents, even if his dad did come worming back at some point.  Can you imagine what it's like to be a teenager with no parents?  John didn't know how to react to things when he was young, because he had no one he really trusted to show his feelings to, so he bottled it up and ended up being very abrasive at times, and dare I say it, hurting people.
I don't mean to demean Cynthia with this, because I quite like her as a person, but I think John and Cyn just happened wrong, if you know what I mean?  I'm not sure John would have got married and had children anywhere near the age they did, but it happened and though it wasn't a mistake, I'm sure John felt a little trapped or worse, isolated because of it.
Then the whole entity of Beatles itself took over all four of the boys' lives, so much so that even though they did have great times, they suffered too.  I wouldn't blame them for taking it personally when the audience made so much racket and never let them walk two paces without mobbing them.  It made their music seem unimportant, like The Beatles were only a media focus-point rather than an artistic thing worth listening to.
So how, after all of that, can you scorn John for taking refuge in someone who loved him?  I know I don't know John properly, but I'm pretty sure Yoko was a massive stronghold for him.  And anyway, you know what it's like when you fall in love with something for the first time...  it's ALL you think and dream about, and no one has the right to deny John the comfort he so desperately needed all those years and never got.  And anyway, what exactly did Yoko do?  Love him?  Care for him?  Defend him?  What's so wrong about that?
And where the band is concerned, there is NO SINGLE PERSON responsible for that.  The Beatles themselves did a lot of it.  The media did some of it.  The fans did some of it.  There is no single person responsible for the breakup of The Beatles, and considering the scale of The Beatles importance to society and history, I don't think anyone has the right to pin it on anyone either.

I agree with you! I can find fault with Yoko but I still believe JOHN and YOKO were the greatest couple of the century. I can`t even think of another one. They did love each other, at least in the first years, till the Lost Weekend definitely. And no doubt John loved Yoko, she was a revelation to him, she was something he had never been able to find in the other women. I believe he was happy.

[Jane]

People say that Yoko was John's muse

Mairi, you are right in almost everything. And if you admit that Yoko was John`s muse as well, then, I believe, you will be right in absolutely everything!

[MrsHarrison]

I don't like Yoko because it seemed that she felt that she was the fifth Beatle. All of them had wives, but only Yoko pushed herself right in between John and the others. Don't get me wrong, they probably had problems before her, but she sure didn't help. At all. I didn't like that anytime, I mean anytime John was anywhere, she was right there with him. And I don't mean, 'let me tag along,' with him, I mean 'let me latch onto your side and call me your new appendage,' kind of with him.

Her singing and art? No thanks. I'd rather not need a hearing aid before the age of 25.

There's a whole lot of other crap she either did or added to, but I'm sure it's mostly been mentioned already...

People say that Yoko was John's muse, and that she opened his mind. But really, I think she just encouraged his a**hole tendencies.

This is something I completely agree with.

[sgt. peppie]

I agree with everything Mairi said.
Also, if she's an avant-garde artist, why is she singing? Does she even do art anymore? No offense, but she doesn't know how to make good music.

And her treatment towards John's family in general. Apparently, when John's aund Mimi died, Yoko and Sean attended. And while Sean was socializing with his family members, Yoko was alienating everyone. She also didn't invite anyone of them to John's funeral/memorial.

[Jai Guru Deva.]

Okay, I can't deny that the way she treated Julian, and the other Beatles when she was around them in the studio and that, wasn't productive and hurt their feelings, but in trying to understand it, I've come to the point that perhaps she acted that way because she wanted to make sure John was hers, in the sense of not only romance and friendship, but as someone she could look after and keep safe from everybody else.  Her ways weren't great, sometimes terrible, I'll admit.  But she loved John, and there's nothing wrong with that.
And you might want to take a moment to notice that it's not just Yoko that acted foolishly without meaning to, under the influence of love.  JOHN did some pretty hurtful things, to Cyn and the other Beatles, because he loved them.  Neither of them were incapable of mistakes, they were HUMAN.  And I'm pretty sure any one of us on this forum would act in a way that we thought was right to protect someone we love, even if to everyone else, it's wrong.
And if you don't like Yoko's music, don't bloody listen to it!  Here I am defending the woman and I don't feel inclined to have any of her stuff.  Kudos to ADoS for making this thread and the intention behind it, but Christ, this subject does bring out the worst in people.

xxx

[tkitna]

I hate her because she was a manipulator on every level. People always want to say that she encouraged John to be the great person that he was. Truth be told, John was an a**hole and made to look like a fool most of the time he was with her in my opinion.

1 - People think she immediately fell in love with John upon first sight at her gallery,,,,Bullsh*t! She sought Paul out for cash after that showing. Yeah, she knocked on his door and was looking for a handout (and more some say). Paul blew her off and told her to go knock on Johns door.

2 - The woman had enough nerve to lay in Cynthias bed and sleep with her husband while allowing Johns small son and Cyn to catch them in the act. I blame Yoko more for that then John. You know she instigated it.

3 - No, she didnt break up the Beatles, but she sure didnt help matters. Seriously, did she really have to stay in the studio and offer her opinions on the musical direction of the band? A normal person would have stayed out of the studio and let the guys work (like all of the other women did), but no, she saw how it bothered the rest of the band and she played on it. John was pretty much a puppet at this stage.

4 - John wants to thank you for the heroin addiction Yoko. You did well.

5 - Julian would like to thank you for your kindness too.

6 - Has anybody actually listened to this woman sing (if thats what you call it)? And you liked it? Seriously? Its a shame that being married to a famous man guarantees you a shot at a solo career.

7 - Way to handle Johns legacy after he died.

I'm going to just stop here as i'm starting to get p*ssed off.


 

[emmi_luvs_beatles]

^^^^^ I completely agree with tkitna there. I think she treated Julian terribly. Especially when he didn't get one thing of his father's when he died. Sure, possesions don't really mean anything, but when your father intends to give you something after he passed, don't you think it's kind of a big middle finger when your step-mom get's it instead??? I know I would be devastated.

[Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Okay, fair enough. I was just curious. No need to get upset.

[Jane]

Another thing that Yoko is to blame for. I will never forgive her that she MADE and encouraged John to stay private for 5 years. 5 years lost for nothing when he could have given us his music. But Yoko did everything so that John would remain home either with Sean or with drugs, or baking bread or... She knew who he was and what his vocation was, she should have created the necessary conditions for his work. But no, something stopped her from it. I wonder what it was? Her desire to control everything and keep John as far from his affairs and music career as possible? To become the master of all his possessions and money? She was and is a clever woman, she understood it was ruining him. Why didn`t she stop him? As a loving person would. At that time she didn`t love him. This is MY conclusion.

[sgt. peppie]

Yoko had a daughter with a man before, her name was Kyoko. They aren't even in touch because Kyoko chooses not to. I still wonder why.

[I_Will]

Yoko had a daughter with a man before, her name was Kyoko. They aren't even in touch because Kyoko chooses not to. I still wonder why.

I don't

OK, OK, that was kind of mean.