Beatles forums > The Beatles
Things the Beatles were beaten
NYSPORTSFAN:
--- Quote from: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on October 31, 2013, 01:30:05 AM ---Actually Jefferson Airplane released a sh*ty sound collage in their album After Bathing At Baxter's, a whole year before the white album.
Jefferson Airplane - A Small Package/Young Girl Sunday Blues
--- End quote ---
The Beatles had released three songs that could be considered sound collages in "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite" and "I Am Walrus before they got to "Revolution #9".
"Revolution #9" is a different story it's entirely a long collage of pre-recorded sounds, loops, samples including orchestras, crowds, movies, studio chatter and other random and assorted recordings. By the way After Bathing At Baxter's is an interesting album in all four sides were divided into different suites. I have heard there was a story that the album changed its direction entirely after hearing Sgt. Peppers.
Hombre_de_ningun_lugar:
--- Quote from: NYSPORTSFAN on October 31, 2013, 02:02:33 AM ---The Beatles had released three songs that could be considered sound collages in "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite" and "I Am Walrus before they got to "Revolution #9".
"Revolution #9" is a different story it's entirely a long collage of pre-recorded sounds, loops, samples including orchestras, crowds, movies, studio chatter and other random and assorted recordings. By the way After Bathing At Baxter's is an interesting album in all four sides were divided into different suites. I have heard there was a story that the album changed its direction entirely after hearing Sgt. Peppers.
--- End quote ---
You still don't get the point, of course that Jefferson Airplane was influenced by the Beatles, but their "song" was the next step, and then came "Revolution 9", etc. I'm starting to wonder if you think that the Beatles invented everything and noone influenced them. Because you always mention the Beatles innovations and ignore the advances of other artists who were certainly an influence for the Beatles as well.
By the way, the Yardbirds' "Hot House Of Omagarashid" could be considered as an early sound collage as well, released in their album Roger The Engineer in 1966, before Revolver:
The Yardbirds - Hot House of Omagarashid
Now I wonder which Beatles song you will mention...
NYSPORTSFAN:
--- Quote from: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on October 31, 2013, 07:48:45 PM ---You still don't get the point, of course that Jefferson Airplane was influenced by the Beatles, but their "song" was the next step, and then came "Revolution 9", etc. I'm starting to wonder if you think that the Beatles invented everything and noone influenced them. Because you always mention the Beatles innovations and ignore the advances of other artists who were certainly an influence for the Beatles as well.
By the way, the Yardbirds' "Hot House Of Omagarashid" could be considered as an early sound collage as well, released in their album Roger The Engineer in 1966, before Revolver:
The Yardbirds - Hot House of Omagarashid
Now I wonder which Beatles song you will mention...
--- End quote ---
The problem is "Hot House Of Omagarashid" is not a sound collage and I have not ignored what other rock musicians were doing. It's my opinion The Beatles were just more forward thinking and I am hardly the one who thinks that. When I say sound collage in rock music I meant sound collages of live looping/sampling like "Tomorrow Never Knows" or sampling like "I Am The Walrus". Now allegedly Stockhausen did these things but he wasn't thinking in terms of mixing these techniques with songwriting right.
Maybe the Jefferson Airplane song you mentioned was the next step forward to "Revolution #9" which I don't agree with maybe listen to the techniques both bands were using but the facts are Beatles were using sound collages in a rock context before them. I would actually compare what The Airplane did with what Frank Zappa Lump Gravy.
Hombre_de_ningun_lugar:
--- Quote from: NYSPORTSFAN on October 31, 2013, 10:12:55 PM ---The problem is "Hot House Of Omagarashid" is not a sound collage and I have not ignored what other rock musicians were doing. It's my opinion The Beatles were just more forward thinking and I am hardly the one who thinks that. When I say sound collage in rock music I meant sound collages of live looping/sampling like "Tomorrow Never Knows" or sampling like "I Am The Walrus". Now allegedly Stockhausen did these things but he wasn't thinking in terms of mixing these techniques with songwriting right.
Maybe the Jefferson Airplane song you mentioned was the next step forward to "Revolution #9" which I don't agree with maybe listen to the techniques both bands were using but the facts are Beatles were using sound collages in a rock context before them. I would actually compare what The Airplane did with what Frank Zappa Lump Gravy.
--- End quote ---
I think the point is not to make a comparison about which was the most experimental band, I think that's quite subjective, but if you think that the Beatles were more forward thinking I have no problem with that. My problem with your discourse is that when I mention something some band did before the Beatles, you say that the Beatles went further, and when I say that some band went further at something, you say that the Beatles did it first. The Beatles' popularity also allowed them to make their advances more notorious than other bands, but I don't mean to put the Fab Four down, they are still my very favorite band, but I don't like when those influences the Beatles had from other bands are ignored. It doesn't stain their image, just talks about their open minds to capture the new sounds in the musical ambient. The Beatles was the most important band, but without the contributions of the other bands, the musical revolution wouldn't have been possible.
With regard to the sound collage, that's an endless discussion because it depends on other previous influences. For example, the guitar playing in "Eight Miles High" is not a sound collage, but the feeling of randomness is still there, and it wouldn't be strange that the idea of the weird random sounds of "Tomorrow Never Knows" came from that song. (Note: "Eight Miles High" was released as a single in March 1966 and "Tomorrow Never Knows" was recorded in April 1966.)
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