A treasury and a place to meet people of all ages with various interests from all over the World
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

PLEASE READ OUR FORUM RULES HERE

Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: "Icons of the Century"  (Read 4629 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mairi

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7934
  • The owls are not what they seem
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2005, 03:33:11 PM »

The songwriters and image,.. uh, people.

He derves all the credit he gets for being influential, changing  generation, etc, but I just can't listen to his music.
Logged
I am posting on an internet forum, therefore my opinion is fact.

Kevin

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5544
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2005, 03:41:35 PM »

Quote from: Mairi
The songwriters and image,.. uh, people.


Elvis's image was his own, as was his choice of material (until after the Army). He was not manufactured. What you saw in '56 was the real Elvis, not a make-over.
Logged
don't follow leaders

GreenApple

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1548
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2005, 04:05:22 PM »

Quote from: kevin_b

People saying Elvis is just another singer is like people saying Pepper is just another album. Look at music before and after and what Elvis achieved. As Lennon said, before him there was nothing. Elvis brought rock'n'roll into the mainstream and gave it its image that still endures today. He wasn't the product of some manager or studio boss, he was the original hunky dorry man.
You need to see him in context to appreciate him (as with Beatlemania/Pepper).


I don't like Elvis, but if that's what John said, I can respect it.

But, before Elvis there was black blues music. That's where it all really comes from.

One of the good things about The Beatles was that they acknowledged their influences, including black artists like Chuck Berry. I get the impression that Elvis, in the segregationist mentality of 50's America, couldn't have acknowledged the artists that made it possible for him to get so great. Great on top of the achievements of black bluesman. Reminds me of the Chinese expression, though the context is different, 'I stood on the shoulders of great men and saw far.'

If you ask me, Chuck Berry deserved the credit Elvis got. And he wrote his own songs. Great ones. Still classic. Still great.
Logged
[size=18]All You Need Is LOVE![/size]

Kevin

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5544
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2005, 04:11:04 PM »

True. Elvis didn't invent rock'n'roll, but it was never (sadly) going to hit mainstream while its main proponents were black, die-hard rockabillies ( a nod to PC) or old fat guys like Bill Haley. Rock'n'roll, as we understand it today, is Elvis. (ie the whole moody teenage rebellion thing).
And you could argue that The Beatles (in the beginning) sound was made on the back of all the American artists they so admired, but that in no way lessens their achievements (and so it should be for Elvis).
Logged
don't follow leaders

GreenApple

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1548
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2005, 04:25:26 PM »

I can give a nod to people who love Elvis for him 'being there', at the right time, with the right image. But, I'd see him more as an entertainer with a cool image rather than a giant of music. Maybe history will judge Chuck Berry as the 'real' Elvis, or Elvis as the 'false' Chuck Berry, so to speak.
Logged
[size=18]All You Need Is LOVE![/size]

Kevin

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5544
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2005, 04:31:36 PM »

I think the main bias against Elvis is that he didn't write his own songs, and yes, that will always stand against him. But remember, there was absolutely no expectation in those days that artists should write their own material. (Sinatra didn't, Pavarotti doesn't, but would you deny them their status?)
And remember how Elvis's working of the songs he did blew THE WORLD away. (and being Beatle fans, we have to accept that image is as important as sound, which he had in spades (and NOT manufactued, like the....))
Anyway, we need to find something to agree on! (but hats off for discussing, not arguing. This is why I joined a forum.)
Logged
don't follow leaders

GreenApple

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1548
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2005, 04:37:43 PM »

It's fair comment! I don't hate Elvis or anything. I just don't like his kind of stuff. But his voice wasn't bad for sure. True about singer/songwriters not being the done thing in those days. But when the Beatles came and 'stole Elvis's throne', so to speak, it was fully deserved. But, Elvis will go down in history with justification too.
Logged
[size=18]All You Need Is LOVE![/size]

adamzero

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1410
  • "The dude abides."
    • Phoebe Claire Publishing, LLC
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2005, 08:48:57 PM »

Just listen to Elvis Sun Sessions.  The young Elvis is literally in the act of defining rock-n-roll with Scotty Moore and Bill Black.  These recordings are magic.  Listen to "Blue Moon of Kentucky."  If you want a moment that signifies the birth of rock-n-roll, wait for the part where Elvis stops the slow bluegrass shuffle and tells the boys to get "real gone" and they take the song into hyperdrive.  Electric.  

The early stuff for RCA still has some of the raw power, but it was waning by the time he joined the Army.  "Teddy Bear"?  Ugh!

The last great song E did was "Little Sister" with James Burton on guitar.  

As much as I love the Beatles, I still don't think they were as much a live performance phenomenon as Elvis.  They're bobbing up and down is nothing compared to E's moves.  

Logged

An Apple Beatle

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5635
  • Be yourself, no matter what they say.
    • The studio
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2005, 08:57:30 AM »

Logged
http://www.4sitemusic.com
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON THIS FORUM! CLICK HERE!

An Apple Beatle

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5635
  • Be yourself, no matter what they say.
    • The studio
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2005, 07:18:43 PM »

Theres this too

Lennon top icon for U.S. rock photographer

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/28102005/325/lennon-top-icon-u-s-rock-photographer.html
Logged
http://www.4sitemusic.com
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON THIS FORUM! CLICK HERE!

adamzero

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1410
  • "The dude abides."
    • Phoebe Claire Publishing, LLC
Re: "Icons of the Century"
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2005, 02:35:53 AM »

Elvis was a huge fan of black performers.  Clyde McFatter was one of his favorite singers of all time.  Junior Parker and Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup were also major influences.  Except for Bill Monroe's "Blue Moon of Kentucky" all of E's early hits were remakes of black songs.  While it would be a mistake to say that Memphis in the 50s was desegregated, white kids like Elvis were listening to blues and r&b (not Chuck Berry) and absorbing their influence and songs and performance styles.  Even during segregation whites and blacks in the South did have interaction with one another (especially at the pentecostal churches such as E attended as a boy).  Sam Phillips started Sun to record black artists and gradually the milieu began to include white artists like Presley.  Did Sam turn his back on black artists after E, Johnny Cash, Carl Perkins, and Jerry Lee took off?  Unfortunately yes.  But it seems to have been as much a business decision as a racial preference (Sam's favorite performer of all time was Howlin' Wolf).  Ironically, the civil rights movement made more difficult the type of nascent cross-cultural interchange that was beginning to happen in the mid-50s.  Stax ventured into that arena.  

The Beatles in a way started out simply replicating the Presley formula.  Cover obscure black r&b artists that they loved and tighten up the beat for a white audience.  

Ironically Chuck Berry never had much of a black audience.  He appealed to restless suburban white teens.  If Elvis was the white guy who could sing black, Chuck was the black guy who could sing white and whose music owed as much to the Grand Ole Opry as the Delta Blues.  I'd say Elvis was closer geographically and spiritually to the Delta blues than Chuck ever was (even though Chuck was black).  

If Elvis stood on any shoulders, they were Clyde McFatter's, Carl Perkin's, Arthur Crudup's, Bill Monroe's, Junior Parker's, Wynonie Harris', etc.--and his versions of their songs were generally superior to the originals.  
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
 

Page created in 0.346 seconds with 26 queries.