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Author Topic: Was Please Please Me A Number One?  (Read 7139 times)

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zipp

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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2004, 03:56:52 PM »

Thanks Wolf.
A slight correction.
After The ballad of John and Yoko it was of course Something that failed to get to number one.
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Wolf

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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2004, 08:16:14 PM »

[quote by=zipp link=Blah.pl?b=songs,m=1084756447,s=20 date=1085327812]Thanks Wolf.
A slight correction.
After The ballad of John and Yoko it was of course Something that failed to get to number one.[/quote]


Thanks for pointing that out! Already corrected.
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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2004, 11:06:04 PM »

Thanks Wolf - that is absolutely invaluable info... as usual :)

I'm sure, some years back, that there was a petition to get PPM reinstated to number one - it obviously failed!
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Wolf

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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2004, 02:08:31 AM »

[quote by=The_End link=Blah.pl?b=songs,m=1084756447,s=22 date=1085353564] I'm sure, some years back, that there was a petition to get PPM reinstated to number one - it obviously failed! [/quote]

I didn`t know about that!

Btw, there`s another case of Beatles/Elvis "chart injustice" - this time in the US concerning the Billboard Charts. It is very little known and a bit more complicated than the PPM case.
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Bobber

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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2006, 11:37:35 AM »

Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields Forever went to #1 on a certain list in the UK, didn't it?

Quote
Strawberry Fields Forever/Penny Lane    

BBC #2
Disc #2
MM #1
NME #2
RR #2

Is it legal to call this a number one?
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Kevin

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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2006, 11:54:40 AM »

Quote from: 63
Is it legal to call this a number one?

From Wikepedia:
While the BBC/Record Retailer chart is almost universally accepted as definitive for the period from February 1969 onwards, there is some controversy over which charts should be considered "correct" prior to this. The most common solution to this problem is to regard the Record Retailer chart as the correct one from its inception in 1960, and the NME chart before that. This approach originated with the Guinness Book of British Hit Singles, first published in 1977. However, it may be argued that almost nobody considered the Record Retailer chart to be canonical at the time of publication, at least until Record Mirror began publishing it as well. Some chart reference books simply take Record Mirror as their source from the start; this is the approach taken by The Top 20 Book compiled biannually by Tony Jasper from 1978 to 1994 and Rock File, an annual publication during the 1970s whose "Chart Log" feature was effectively the forerunner to "British Hit Singles", as well as numerous books by Dave McAleer. The result of this approach is a chart that begins in 1955, and joins up with the Record Retailer chart (and so agrees with the Guinness book) in 1962.

A case may also be made for considering the NME chart to be the correct one for at least part of the 1960s, since it was arguably the one followed by the most people. Similarly, Melody Maker's charts could be considered correct for the same period because they drew on the largest number of shops for their compilation. (However, the latter is less practical since unlike the NME charts, the Melody Maker charts have never been reprinted and are therefore difficult to obtain.)

The Official UK Charts Company have adopted the Guinness solution as defining the official chart canon, however different approaches continue to exist.

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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2006, 04:50:22 PM »

I think PPM has a bigger claim to be classified as a number one than SF. Even on the PPM LP sleeve notes it states that it was their first number one, however The Beatles and George Martin readily admitted that SF was a number 2 hit.

Rather aggravatingly, EMI/Apple appeared to concede the point when they issued "1" which excluded PPM.

This argument has bugged me since I was about 11!!!
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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2006, 04:54:26 PM »

Guinness World Records - British Hit Singles & Albums is generally considered to be the authoritative reference source for both the UK Singles Chart (since its inception in 1952) and UK Albums Chart. It lists all the singles and albums ever to have made the UK Top 75 Charts in alphabetical order by both artist and song title, with date of chart entry, highest position, catalogue number, and number of weeks on the chart. Its sources are the New Musical Express chart from November 1952 to March 1960, and the Record Retailer (later Music Week) chart thereafter. Many observers have argued that this division is misleading, since the Record Retailer chart was little-known until it was adopted by the BBC in 1969, and that by adopting this chart as its standard from the earliest opportunity, the editors were effectively "re-writing" chart history. An example often given is the case of The Beatles' second single "Please Please Me" which was recognised as a number one hit by every other publicly-available chart but not by Record Retailer, and therefore not by British Hit Singles. Other records to which this applies include "19th Nervous Breakdown" by The Rolling Stones, "Stranger On The Shore" by Mister Acker Bilk and the Eurovision Song Contest entry "Are You Sure" by The Allisons. Co-founder Jo Rice has defended the book's choice of source material on the grounds that Record Retailer was the only chart to consistently publish a Top 50 from 1960 onwards (as opposed to other charts which published either a shorter listing, such as the NME, or a listing that shrunk over time, such as Melody Maker).
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Kevin

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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2006, 05:00:03 PM »

I don't own 1, but doesn't it have Love Me Do, Something, Let It Be which weren't #1's, and Yesterday and Long and Winding Road which weren't even singles. (all UK of course)
I thought their rationale was that it had to be #1 just somewhere in the world (heard that somewhere). So the omissioin of PPM and SF from the album is strange, but not a concession I think
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zipp

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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2006, 07:42:26 PM »

Quote from: 185
I don't own 1, but doesn't it have Love Me Do, Something, Let It Be which weren't #1's, and Yesterday and Long and Winding Road which weren't even singles. (all UK of course)
I thought their rationale was that it had to be #1 just somewhere in the world (heard that somewhere). So the omissioin of PPM and SF from the album is strange, but not a concession I think

Are we still discussing this?(Seems like a timewarp.)
To be on ONE, Kevin, a song just had to be number one in the UK or in the USA.
NOT in any other country.
I say song not record because in the USA songs charted separately.
Apple gave in over PPM possibly for technical reasons (they wanted all the songs to fit on to one album) and for marketing reasons (it was geared above all to the American market).
But if you want the truth...
Everyone in the UK in 1963, including the Beatles themselves, knows that PPM was the first Beatles number one.It was number one on every chart you read (nobody bought the Record Retailer which was a trade paper).It was number one in the national newspapers who used NME or Melody Maker.It was number one on the radio (which was the most important medium at the time for chart information).It was number one on public (BBC) and private (ITV) television chart shows.And at the end of the year on the first Beatles Xmas record Lennon refers to it, quite rightly, as they're first number one.



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BlueMeanie

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Re: Was Please Please Me A Number One?
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2006, 08:52:32 AM »

Quote from: 410

To be on ONE, Kevin, a song just had to be number one in the UK or in the USA.
NOT in any other country.


I thought that Something never made it to #1 in the US? Which would also rule out Come Together from the 1 album. Leaving room for PPM.

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