Topic: Revolution (Read 7952 times)

Sondra · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2006, 01:55:19 AM »

Quote from: 410

I think together we've answered most of the original questions.

I think the only question I have left is did I actually read something about how John got the guitar effect on the intro or was it just regular use of distortion? I thought I read that he did something different. But it could have been about some other song. BTW, thanks guys.

zipp · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2006, 04:48:19 PM »

Quote from: 216

I think the only question I have left is did I actually read something about how John got the guitar effect on the intro or was it just regular use of distortion? I thought I read that he did something different. But it could have been about some other song. BTW, thanks guys.

Two distorted lead guitars were put through the recording console.It completely overloaded the channel and produced the fuzz sound.

Incidentally I watched the video again on Anthology.You can hear the Lennon scream begin just before Paul screams, but the camera is on Paul.I think this is done on purpose because they were worried that Lennon would come in wrong and would give the game away that they were more or less miming even if their vocals were picked up.
I also watched Hey Jude where it's even more obvious since Paul is double-tracked for most of the song.That is to say he's singing with himself!

Sondra · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2006, 05:30:05 PM »

Lennon mess up a vocal? Never!

I wonder why they felt the need to do that anyway. These songs could be played live pretty well. I mean, there were no special effects and stuff like on other songs. I guess it was acceptable back then. Now people who do that get ragged on because they come off as looking like they don't have the talent to play live. I know it was different in the sixties though so I'm sure there are many reasons for it.

Wordno · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2006, 05:43:30 PM »

Quote from: 410

Two distorted lead guitars were put through the recording console.It completely overloaded the channel and produced the fuzz sound.

Incidentally I watched the video again on Anthology.You can hear the Lennon scream begin just before Paul screams, but the camera is on Paul.I think this is done on purpose because they were worried that Lennon would come in wrong and would give the game away that they were more or less miming even if their vocals were picked up.
I also watched Hey Jude where it's even more obvious since Paul is double-tracked for most of the song.That is to say he's singing with himself!

I think they just put the record with the live version of Revolution for the anthology video. The link I provided before shows Paul screaming without Lennon's screaming. Plus the vocals sound live, they sound different to be the record version. Like I said, this is the live version with live vocals and live bass playing lol.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf-Q2rDd6Tw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf-Q2rDd6Tw</a>

zipp · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 2006, 08:03:12 PM »

Quote from: 216

Lennon mess up a vocal? Never!

I wonder why they felt the need to do that anyway. These songs could be played live pretty well. I mean, there were no special effects and stuff like on other songs. I guess it was acceptable back then. Now people who do that get ragged on because they come off as looking like they don't have the talent to play live. I know it was different in the sixties though so I'm sure there are many reasons for it.

No, there was a miming ban on British TV but the Beatles knew they couldn't reproduce their studio sound, so they had to pretend to be as live as possible.
Nobody can do a live version of Revolution with the strength of that distorted guitar and the Beatles knew it.Sixties or no sixties.

zipp · « **Reply #25 on:** October 13, 2006, 08:06:53 PM »

Quote from: 403

I think they just put the record with the live version of Revolution for the anthology video. The link I provided before shows Paul screaming without Lennon's screaming. Plus the vocals sound live, they sound different to be the record version. Like I said, this is the live version with live vocals and live bass playing lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf-Q2rDd6Tw

No, no, no.Listen to Anthology, Lennon's scream comes in just before.You hear the live vocals above the recorded version, or maybe one track of the recorded version, burt the fabs were taking no chances.

Sondra · « **Reply #26 on:** October 13, 2006, 10:10:34 PM »

On the promo videos I have you do not hear the recorded sceam at all. You also hear a lot of noise from Paul that you don't hear on Anthology. They definitely cleaned it up and added something. I'd prefer to hear it as it was. I also think they could have done a fine job reproducing Revolution live. It didn't have to sound exactly like the record. That's why live is so great. Also, why the live bass playing then? They should have just sucked it up and done it all live.

Kevin · « **Reply #27 on:** October 14, 2006, 08:55:20 AM »

Quote from: 410

No, there was a miming ban on British TV but the Beatles knew they couldn't reproduce their studio sound, so they had to pretend to be as live as possible.
Nobody can do a live version of Revolution with the strength of that distorted guitar and the Beatles knew it.Sixties or no sixties.

Bang on Zipp. And lets face it, even now its rare for a band to go on TV to promote a new single and risk it by playing live.

zipp · « **Reply #28 on:** October 14, 2006, 09:00:12 AM »

Quote from: 216

On the promo videos I have you do not hear the recorded sceam at all. You also hear a lot of noise from Paul that you don't hear on Anthology. They definitely cleaned it up and added something. I'd prefer to hear it as it was. I also think they could have done a fine job reproducing Revolution live. It didn't have to sound exactly like the record. That's why live is so great. Also, why the live bass playing then? They should have just sucked it up and done it all live.

Well I'll have another listen but if you have Lewisohn's Chronicle then the filming of the Revolution and Hey Jude clips is fascinating reading.
They took place in Twickenham Film Studios on Wednesday 4th September.David Frost went there to present them and pretend they were on his show live.(The show actually went out the following Sunday!).
Lewisohn says :
"The two clips for Revolution were largely identical to each other but had some lighting differences.These were exciting versions,the Beatles ADDING A NEW VOCAL TRACK TO THE PRE-RECORDED EMI BACKING TRACK, blending the fast style of vocals from the B-side version with the lyrics from the slow White Album recording."

He doesn't mention Paul's bass being recorded live.
Where do you have that information from?

Kevin · « **Reply #29 on:** October 14, 2006, 09:27:15 AM »

This from Wikepedia:

(The scream was an overdub added when Lennon double tracked his vocal. Paul McCartney performed the scream on the 'David Frost Show' semi-live television performance, because Lennon could not deliver the scream and catch his breath again in time to launch into the first verse.)

Kevin · « **Reply #30 on:** October 14, 2006, 09:49:17 AM »

As a comparison here's The Stones on TOTP in '69. Also an instrumental backing track (I'm pretty sure. I hope :B) from what was supposed to be the best live band in the world

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Jbi7iDNA0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Jbi7iDNA0</a>

Kevin · « **Reply #31 on:** October 14, 2006, 09:52:36 AM »

Quote from: 185

As a comparison here's The Stones on TOTP in '69. Also an instrumental backing track (I'm pretty sure. I hope :B)* from what was supposed to be the best live band in the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Jbi7iDNA0

*It is. No leads

zipp · « **Reply #32 on:** October 14, 2006, 03:58:00 PM »

Thanks for that Kevin.
They showed Revolution on Top Of The Pops too (once!).
So they must have been taken in by the live vocals.
It seems silly now.The two best groups in the world having to use such subterfuge.

Sondra · « **Reply #33 on:** October 14, 2006, 08:33:53 PM »

Quote from: 410

Well I'll have another listen but if you have Lewisohn's Chronicle then the filming of the Revolution and Hey Jude clips is fascinating reading.
They took place in Twickenham Film Studios on Wednesday 4th September.David Frost went there to present them and pretend they were on his show live.(The show actually went out the following Sunday!).
Lewisohn says :
"The two clips for Revolution were largely identical to each other but had some lighting differences.These were exciting versions,the Beatles ADDING A NEW VOCAL TRACK TO THE PRE-RECORDED EMI BACKING TRACK, blending the fast style of vocals from the B-side version with the lyrics from the slow White Album recording."

He doesn't mention Paul's bass being recorded live.
Where do you have that information from?

I got that info from a previous post. Someone said the only thing live was the singing and Paul's bass playing. I don't know where they got it from.

Also, about the blending of the vocals thing. I think what he's saying is that they sang it in the style of the B side track but added the shoobie doo wops. I don't think it implies that they used their prerecorded voices at all. It says they used the pre-recorded backing track. Doesn't that mean just the music? Anyway, I'll listen to the promo version I have again, but I know I don't hear the John scream. It's just not there. They put it in for the Anthology or maybe when the Frost show went out they added it or something. Either way, I think they could have pulled off a pretty good live version of Revolution. I think most bands these days are expected to play live. If they start using pre-recorded stuff then it turns into something like that Ashley Simpson fiasco. They've got enough electronic things to supplement their sound now anyway, so it's not necessary to do what the Beatles did.

Mairi · « **Reply #34 on:** October 14, 2006, 10:28:42 PM »

I thought everyone lip-synched on TOTP. Perhaps just nowadays. Cause I remember when Avril Lavigne was on TOTP (Or maybe it was All That) and she refused to lipsynch. There was a bit of ruckus over it.

zipp · « **Reply #35 on:** October 15, 2006, 09:52:10 AM »

Quote from: 216

1.Also, about the blending of the vocals thing. I think what he's saying is that they sang it in the style of the B side track but added the shoobie doo wops. I don't think it implies that they used their prerecorded voices at all. It says they used the pre-recorded backing track. Doesn't that mean just the music?

2.They put it in for the Anthology or maybe when the Frost show went out they added it or something.

3.Either way, I think they could have pulled off a pretty good live version of Revolution.

1.No.it's even clearer when Lewisohn talks about Hey Jude : "Paul sang live to his own PRE-RECORDED VOCAL during the body of the song then sang entirely live in the long refrain."

2.The whole point is that Frost had nothing to do with the music here.The Beatles controlled the whole thing.

3.They didn't want a 'pretty good' version of Revolution.They were perfectionists and wanted the best version.

Sondra · « **Reply #36 on:** October 15, 2006, 10:01:58 PM »

I'm not trying to start anything here or act like I'm an expert when I'm clearly not. I was just going by what I can actually hear on the promo video. I really cannot hear pre-recorded vocals, but maybe it's very subtle. If Lewisohn says that they are there, then they're there. Although the paragraph from before sounded ambiguous to me. Like it could mean one or the other. That's all I was pointing out. I don't think it was necessary to put "pre-recorded vocals" in all caps. That was kind of condescending. As if I couldn't comprehend otherwise. The other paragraph didn't say that, so I was pointing that out as a possibility. I don't have the book, so I haven't read about it indepth. Which is why I posted here in the first place. Maybe I should just get the book and not worry about having actual discussions. Also, sorry to sound ignorant, but are Lewisohn's statements absoulutely undebatable? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know. I supposed I could just look it up.
I know Frost didn't have anything to do with the music, I said maybe they fixed it up before it went out. Again, the version I have is very raw. You hear feedback a few times, talking, and breathing. I don't hear that on the Anthology at all. So I figured they cleaned it up a bit. Not Frost, them.
Also, that's great that they wanted the best version. I know what they were like. I just think from a fans point of view a total live version would have been really cool and would have sounded not 'pretty good' but probably awesome. I just saw Stone Temple Pilots do a live version on a John Lennon tribute and it was excellent. They got a standing ovation even. And yeah, the guitar wasn't as powerful, but it still sounded amazing. I don't think it would be the hardest song to pull off live. That's all I'm saying. Nothing against John, Paul, George, and Ringo's decision not to do it live. Obviously they knew what they were doing. I just would have liked to have seen a live version of the song and think they would have sounded damn good. Anyway, thanks for all the information.

Wordno · « **Reply #37 on:** October 16, 2006, 01:27:30 AM »

Quote from: 410

1.No.it's even clearer when Lewisohn talks about Hey Jude : "Paul sang live to his own PRE-RECORDED VOCAL during the body of the song then sang entirely live in the long refrain."

We're talking about 'Revolution' and not 'Hey Jude'. If you listen to the 'Hey Jude preformance its obvious Paul is singing to his own pre-recorded version. You can hear it behind his live vocals. On 'Revolution' you can't hear a pre-recorded version behind John's vocals. Well only at the end of the video.

I'm almost positive that the version of 'Revolution' on the David frost show is different than the record. Its either live vocals or maybe they recorded different vocals of the song a couple of days before the performance. All I know is that the link I'm about to provide with 'Revolution' is different than the record. Listen to it closely, it doesn't sound like the record version. Sandra and I could here the difference.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf-Q2rDd6Tw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf-Q2rDd6Tw</a>

This is the version of the performance with the record on it. Its so clearly obvious that it is different than the first link I gave.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7394eK_v1I" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7394eK_v1I</a>

Kevin · « **Reply #38 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:35:50 AM »

I guess too that the effort required to play to play live would have been enormous.
Getting Nicki Hopkins in, rehearsing, setting up, soundchecks, endless takes (remember Let It Be), when the whole point of the exercise was to flog their new single, not impress as a live act.
Plus as Zipp said, their inability to reproduce that guitar sound would have been crucial.

Bobber · « **Reply #39 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:41:51 AM »

Quote from: 216

I don't have the book, so I haven't read about it indepth. Which is why I posted here in the first place. Maybe I should just get the book and not worry about having actual discussions. Also, sorry to sound ignorant, but are Lewisohn's statements absoulutely undebatable? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know. I supposed I could just look it up.

Don't get the book and discuss it here!

I don't think Lewisohn is undebatable, although I feel he's largely considered as a reliable source. At least he's trying to do his work as good as possible.

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Author Topic: Revolution (Read 7952 times)

Bobber