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Beatles forums => The Beatles => Topic started by: chimac on August 28, 2011, 12:40:47 AM

Title: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: chimac on August 28, 2011, 12:40:47 AM
It's always interesting to read other people's opinions, particularly on the cause of the Beatles' breakup.  Most people bring Yoko and Linda into it; I agree they played a part, but it was only a bit part.  There were other Beatle wives, Beatle girlfriends all along.  The boys were perfectly able to get work done regardless of the domestic situations.

For me...the reason always came down to business and hurt feelings.  Once John and Yoko fell in with Allen Klein, and then George and Ringo went along with it...the writing was on the wall.  Klein is *not* a Paul kind of guy.  As a smarmy, fast talking New York "hustler", he put Paul off from the beginning.  In John's defense, he read this as earthiness, as Klein being "real" and "working class".  Paul simply didn't like or trust him.  People forget that Paul pushing the Eastmans as an option came *after* Klein was foisted on him.  Looking back, it's obvious he wasn't going to sway the others with a potential relative.  The Eastmans wouldn't have been my choice for that reason, regardless of business acumen.  But, from Paul's point of view, he just knew he could never work under Klein and this was the easiest alternative.  Sad.

That's when things went from awkward and passive-agressive, to outright heated amongst the Beatles. Keep in mind there was open hostility here between Klein and Paul, his "client".  It's crazy to realize that once John told Klein he was leaving, that Klein actually wanted him NOT to tell Paul.  It's more sad to me (and telling) that John basically AGREED, until he famously let it out of the bag during a Paul pitch session.  Paul, who was his partner for almost 15 years, was now out of the loop; replaced with a guy who John barely knew!  This was when the Beatles really ended, IMO.

Paul has been described as "the one who wanted to keep it going the most", to which I agree.  However, it's neither a point in his favor nor against.  For every person that finds that quality admirable, there is another who would read that as a weakness of Paul's.  It's relevant only in the sense that once Paul retreated and created his first solo work, there came a point in which he finally was ready--mentally and emotionally--to go solo.  And for Paul, coming to that painful conclusion was met with the realization that business-wise, Klein and the other 3 had zero intentions of letting him out of the contract.  On this point I agree with Paul:  once you decide amongst yourselves that the "Beatles" as an entity no longer exists, then why not TRULY split and each go his own way, allowed to succeed or fail on your own?  Hence, Paul's lawsuit. 

He ate a lot of crap over that lawsuit, but it was the right call, imo.  I liken it to getting a divorce, but then your ex-wife and her new lover get the 2nd floor of your house, and you keep the 1st floor.  How could that ever be workable?  The Beatles were too close to ever JUST be business partners, coming together for a new "Beatle product" every 4 or 5 years.  And you know what?  Thank God they didn't.

It then came to be all-out war once Klein had the others feeling like they had one over on Paul (the contract binding them together for 20 years) and started to flex that a bit.  I vaguely remember an anecdote (correct me if I'm wrong) where in reference to the solo album, Paul had been told by George "It will f***ing come out under Apple.  Hare Krishna."  Now, I love George, but I can totally see him saying that.  George could be every bit a jerk as Paul and John in his own way, and maybe this was his way of getting back at Paul for being increasingly told how to play his parts in Paul songs.  Paul threw Ringo out of his house after he tried to get him to switch the release date of "McCartney".  My point is, all of these strange and aggressive behaviors revolved around business matters, NOT Yoko & Linda or the other wives.

I think history has proven Paul right, as far as his business acumen is concerned.  Klein *was* a dirty leech, and John and George in particular had nasty legal battles with him, not to mention choice words.  And wasn't Lee Eastman the one who advised Paul to get into music publishing?  Buy the songs you love?  I wish Paul had gone about things differently, but on the key business points, Paul made all the right moves and the others made all the wrong moves towards the end.  Paul always had the financial upper hand from this point forward.  And that contributed to hurt feelings and petty blow-ups long after the emotional scarring of the breakup had healed.  The Beatles were never going to be "equal" again.  Paul being Paul, probably wasn't going to let any of them forget that, either.  John, George and Paul always struck me as guys who held grudges waaay too long.  It's a pity they didn't have Ringo's personality in this regard.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Mr Mustard on August 28, 2011, 02:11:57 AM
Great post chimac, and a warm welcome to DM's.

You've pretty much summed up the way I've always viewed it. For me, Klein was always a much bigger villain in the break up process than Yoko (or Linda, who tends to get less criticism). But I tend to agree with John Lennon... the beginning of the end was the death of Brian Epstein. Once The Beatles were exposed directly to the world of "business" (from which he had always shielded them) they were helpless.  Apple was a calamity. They could be painfully bad judges of character - it wasn't just Klein who milked the bandwagon. They were taken in at one time or another by everyone from The Maharishi to Magic Alex.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on August 28, 2011, 02:40:37 AM
Yes, welcome to the Forum, chimac.  It's a pleasure having you here.

You've also expressed my feelings on this matter.  And I, too, agree that Brian Epstein's death precipitated the events which followed.  I've always been critical of Baby You're A Rich Man to the point where I shut the album off after Penny Lane sacrificing All You Need Is Love as well.  Somehow those two songs, coupled the way they are, show a side of John Lennon I do not particularly care for. 
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Toejam on August 28, 2011, 08:41:54 AM
One thing I can never quite work out is why it all went so bad so suddenly during the White album sessions before the buisness side of things really started to get seriously problamatic. Obviously Yoko going along to the sessions wasn't a good idea and maybe it was indicative of Johns lack of real concern about the band but there had always been arguments for e.g Paul didn't even play bass on She said she said 'cause he'd walked out of the studio after an argument. I'd love to know what happend on that day. The engineer Norman Smith has said the Rubber soul sessions were marked by John and Paul arguing but the arguing seems to have just quite suddenly and seemingly inexplicably got much worse after they got back from India. That seems strange to me but ultimately obviously if they had agreeed on a way forward on the buisness side of things then things wouldn't have got so bad although Yoko making her opinions known about the music in the studio must have been bizzarre and I can see how the other 3 ended up hating her for it. Then there's Johns heroin addiction. I think that just made him a very irritable and unhappy person and when people get like that then they inevitably become a pain in the ass. Paul always was a pain in the ass and George just got fed up of being dissed and Ringo...well he didn't really have much say in things did he?
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: chimac on August 28, 2011, 04:10:17 PM
Great to see other opinions here.  Each of you touch on good points.  All of these things helped precipitate the fall...

RE:  Brian Epstein.  My opinion on Brian was always that he probably WASN'T the best money manager, but he didn't play favorites.  He might have fancied John, but he sided with Paul on enough Beatle decisions (such as who gets the "A" side), where no one was worried about favoritism.  In short, he had the Beatles' best interest in mind...as an entity.  I too kind of soured on John's attitude during the Klein era, where he felt the need to bash Brian.  When you think about it, once Brian died...there was a tremendous power vacuum.  Everyone at Apple, not to mention outsiders like Klein, were all clamoring to get "in" or establish their secure perches.  No doubt there were a lot of whispers to the boys, like "Brian really mismanaged your money, guys.  Look at what he did here, here and here.  Why, if that was *me*, I would have done this...and made / saved you a ton of money."  They were all being convinced that billions of dollars were flushed down the drain by Brian.  John could be easily taken in when he let himself.  And "Baby You're a Rich Man" is a pretty classless tribute to a guy who was still covered in fresh dirt.

RE:  The White Album.  I’m not sure things went bad suddenly at this time.  I would say the rifts became transparent at this time.  Meaning, there were definitely arguments in and out of the studio all along up to this point.  Even in the early interviews, they talk about having little "rows".  It's just that they didn't linger because the boys were still tight then.  They were still living inside the same bubble.  My theory on India is this:  Brian was gone, and now each didn't have marching orders in front of them.  So they could do what they wanted, individually, without someone telling them "you will be in India from this date until this date".

Without that schedule, it's evident that the 4 had different agendas.  George and John seemed to expect the most out of India, as they stayed there the longest and latched on to the Maharishi.  Paul left rather early, as I recall.  He did his bit, wasn't particularly enraptured by the giggling guru, then got out when he felt he absorbed what *he* wanted.  Ringo was there the shortest time.  He seemed to view it as a terrible place to vacation.  He probably had the best BS detector among the group:  he didn't go there looking for a magic yogi.  I always sensed a little resentment from George and to a lesser extent, John, about this.  It was as if "we really feel this is the new thing...and you guys obviously don't take it as seriously".  But it's simply because they were now masters of their own schedules--not going through Brian anymore--that you could see the individual Beatles start to express themselves more.  No more matching suits, no more Sgt. Pepper outfits...from here on out this was even reflected in their individual fashion sense.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Toejam on August 29, 2011, 04:01:32 PM
Great to see other opinions here.  Each of you touch on good points.  All of these things helped precipitate the fall...

R John could be easily taken in when he let himself.  And "Baby You're a Rich Man" is a pretty classless tribute to a guy who was still covered in fresh dirt.



BYARM was actually released before Brian died. It was the b-side to All you need is love.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: nimrod on August 29, 2011, 10:28:48 PM
I always thought Rich Man was a sort of jokey light hearted dig at Brian, typical of Johns humour, there is a rumour that John sang Baby Your A Rich f** Jew.....and Brian thought it was hilarious, theres no doubt in my mind that John had a deep affection for Brian.

As regards the break up to save me doing my 2 finger typing all over again I'll paste this from the McCartney thread;

from all the reading Ive done and interviews Ive read etc Id place a lot of the blame for the break up on Paul.

... the main reason there was a backlash against Paul was that he was was taking over the band, becoming the leader, the idea's man, the musical director, the frustration shows in Harrisons "I'll play whatever you want or I wont play at all' and Lennons 'Let It be is basically the Paul McCartney show'.

Ive played in enough bands to have seen there is usually someone who 'appoints' himself as the unofficial boss eventually and that can rub people up the wrong way when a band is supposed to be a sort of equal concept.
Theres a part in the Imagine film where theyre eating at the table and joking (obviously aimed at Paul IMO) about 'Beatle Ed' being no 6 in Sweden, this again shows the general animosity the others had towards Paul especially as he tried to foist his father in law Lee Eastman onto the other 3 as the new manager, surely for decisions like that, the majority vote should rule but Paul was having none of that and it ended up in court.
Im not saying Paul was totally the bad guy here but just saying that he shoulders some of the blame for the break up and just because he wanted to keep going and doing more gigs doesnt make him a saint.


Theres no doubt that he was the keenest to keep it all going towards the end and he had seemingly more energy than the others but in some ways his eagerness and desire to start the band doing gigs again kinda ended up having a negative effect, the others saw it as him being bossy and pushy and reacted against that by being even more ambivalent towards the band and him.
Had Paul took a step back and diplomatically let things unfold in time the others may have decided to put the band on the back burner and do solo things.....in other words, take a sabbatical.
The Stones and other big name bands have done this successfully so I dont see why The Beatles couldnt have taken that path, yes John privately announced he was quitting the band but as we (and surely the others new) John could change his mind overnight, sadly though I think Paul caused all out war with his releasing McCartney before Let It Be complete with the infamous included 'interview' insert, and of course with his stance re Lee Eastman.

I think the women (especially Yoko) played a big part too, as far as Im concerened she didnt like John being tight with Paul (or anyone else).
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: chimac on August 30, 2011, 07:06:48 AM
I always thought Rich Man was a sort of jokey light hearted dig at Brian, typical of Johns humour, there is a rumour that John sang Baby Your A Rich f** Jew.....and Brian thought it was hilarious, theres no doubt in my mind that John had a deep affection for Brian.

I dunno, it's hard for me to picture Brian truly thinking that was hilarious.  I recall reading somewhere else that John had referred to Brian's book "A Cellarful of Noise" as "A Cellarful of Boys" in front of the others, and Brian was hurt.  Seems only natural; a comment like that is *meant* to hurt.  I ascribe it to John's personality, which could be sour at times, particularly when he felt he needed to impress the others or show how sharp he was.  Brian would have been an easy target.

And you're right...at the same time, John did have a deep affection for Brian.  He was truly an enigma.   :)
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Toejam on August 30, 2011, 07:56:00 AM
I dunno, it's hard for me to picture Brian truly thinking that was hilarious.  I recall reading somewhere else that John had referred to Brian's book "A Cellarful of Noise" as "A Cellarful of Boys"

That was after it was decdied to call it a Cellarful of noise. When Bryan first told John he was writing a book John is reputed to have said 'call it Queer Jew' which made Brian cry.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: In My Life on August 31, 2011, 03:41:25 AM
Quote from: chimac
He was truly an enigma.

That he was. I have read so many contradictory things about him that I am never sure if I like him or not. I think he was brilliant and funny but terribly wounded.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: tkitna on August 31, 2011, 01:13:19 PM
Theres no opinion as to why they broke up, its due to all the well known factors that have already been mentioned. No one thing caused it, but the combination.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Gary910 on August 31, 2011, 08:44:40 PM
I agree there was no single event that broke them up. My list of events/attitudes are as follows:

1. The decision to stop touring
2. Figuring out that they could send an album on "tour". (Sgt Pepper)
3. Growing up.
4. Brian's death and lack of a leader. As John had been the leader, Paul wanted to assume the role, then subsequent resentment.
5. Independence as evidenced by the "White Album". (John, and a backup band... Paul, and a backup band...etc.)
6. Disagreements about where the band was going. By 1969, Paul wanted to play live again.
7. The wounds that the "Get Back" sessions inflicted.
8. Allen Klein vs The Eastmans - debate.
9. Yoko, Linda and resentment from John against Linda, Paul and George's resentment of Yoko.
10. Growing up (again) and wanted to explore their own options.
11. George's walking out.
12. Ringo's walking out.
13. Tired of playing with the same guys.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: nimrod on September 01, 2011, 12:27:43 AM
^ sadly yes
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 01, 2011, 08:05:44 PM
Apart from all the well known factors, maybe they didn't have anything new to say (or play) as a group.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Gary910 on September 01, 2011, 10:13:32 PM
Apart from all the well known factors, maybe they didn't have anything new to say (or play) as a group.

Number 13 on my list...
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 01, 2011, 10:49:49 PM
Number 13 on my list...

Yeah, but apart from being tired of playing together they had already done a musical cycle, completing the full circle. Maybe it was a good time for the Beatles to be disbanded, if they didn't have nothing innovative to give. They could have gained a bad reputation as other great groups like the Stones and the Beach Boys that continued recording during decades. Just see the solo careers, there was some good music, yes, but nothing groundbreaking. But who knows, being together they could have done more magical things. Anyway, the Beatles belong too much to the 60's, and there's no Beatles outside of that decade.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: nimrod on September 02, 2011, 12:52:36 AM
They could have taken a sabbatical and met up two years hence with new ideas maybe..

I believe that wasnt possible thought due to Pauls stance against Klein and his pro eastman stance (he shouldve accepted majority view imo) also his unreasonable releasing of McCartney before Let It Be complete with an interview sheet that said he didnt miss working with John or the others and throwing Ringo out of his house, kinda burnt bridges really.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Gary910 on September 03, 2011, 01:30:47 PM
It would not be accurate for me to say I am happy they broke up, but I do think it was the right time. I think they could have made other good music together, but sometimes it is better to quit when you are still on top. I agree the Stones have gone on too long (I know that is not exactly what you said).

I think they made some great music on their own. It is a pity that we no longer have two members of the band. I think it would have been great to see more of the get together (on a small scale, if that is possible) once in a while. I would have liked to see John and Paul play together again, write a song or two, and then go their own ways again, to rejoin a couple of years later.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 03, 2011, 03:30:50 PM
Actually I meant that about the Stones. I love them, but I don't care about anything they did after 1972.

The Beatles and "musical revolution" mean the same, and I think that's an image that would have been stained if they had continued recording together. But yes, it would have been great for fans to see them together again, at least for a brief moment.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 03, 2011, 04:18:09 PM
How's it going fellow Beatles fanatics? I hope that everyone's weekend is going well. There were so many reasons as to why THE BEATLES broke up. I like to think and go by what Paul McCartney said in an interview a while back which I know many of you are aware of. It goes something like this:

There were four of us, we were young kids that joined the Army together. We learned a lot from one another, we loved each other like Brothers. We grew to need each other. We went through so much together. As time went on, we grew up from being kids to young men. When it was time to leave the Army, as men, we said our goodbye's and went our own ways and started our own families.

In my opinion, that pretty much sums up THE BEATLES. It was never meant for THE BEATLES to continue on. After all, THE BEATLES are THE GREATEST band that music ever produced, all the other bands that were to follow after THE BEATLES, had to catch up with them since THE BEATLES are still a hard act to follow to this day. THE BEATLES achieved and accomplished the impossible in 8 years, it usually takes other artists or bands a lifetime to accomplish what THE BEATLES did in 8 years. THE BEATLES did a lifetime's worth of music in 8 short years. THE BEATLES broke up while they were still in their prime, had they stayed together, no telling what THE BEATLES would have done. Take care.         
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Jane on September 05, 2011, 09:18:46 PM
... But it's simply because they were now masters of their own schedules--not going through Brian anymore--that you could see the individual Beatles start to express themselves more.  No more matching suits, no more Sgt. Pepper outfits...from here on out this was even reflected in their individual fashion sense.

True. Suddenly they became independent and individual. No CEO, so to speak, to listen to, and why should they listen or obey each other?
Besides, certainly they were each very talented, but unfortunately not very tough personalities, willingly submitting to females - not only John with his Yoko, but also Paul with Linda and her father.
We can compare John and Paul with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, the second couple being much stronger, very tough guys indeed, that is why they have survived... ))) IMHO )
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Jane on September 05, 2011, 09:37:30 PM
... this again shows the general animosity the others had towards Paul especially as he tried to foist his father in law Lee Eastman onto the other 3 as the new manager, surely for decisions like that, the majority vote should rule but Paul was having none of that and it ended up in court.

This is one of the main reasons to my mind. Paul shouldn`t have acted like that. However I also believe it is not so much Paul`s fault than Lee Eastman`s, who no doubt seeing that he was failing to get control over the whole Beatles, tried to get Paul under his care. And it, as you say, all ended up in court, which put an end to the band. Yes, it was Paul who went to court, but the person behind it was somebody who knew much more about courts and things like that than Paul. And that was, guess who? Lee Eastman, of course.
There were a lot of reasons for the group to disband, but nobody could actually realize (do) it. And nobody would have actually done it if it hadn`t been for Lee Estman encouraging Paul to go to court.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Nada Surf on September 28, 2011, 03:47:40 AM
A lot of the reasons of a Beatle break-up reflect back on Yoko and I'm starting to re-think my opinion on this matter and am beginning to feel that she really was the main reason for the break-up...
Here are some of those reasons....

...Lennon's disinterest in the band brought about by heroin use (Yoko got Lennon on heroin.)
...Lennon's decision to bring in Allen Klein (Yoko highly endorsed Klein --"I like Americans.")
...Dissension in the band (Yoko insisted on being in the recording sessions)
...Moving away from Paul (Yoko pushed Lennon to stray from Paul and to her)
...The band's growing apart (Yoko created a strain by being in the recording studio)
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Gary910 on September 29, 2011, 05:02:04 AM
A lot of the reasons of a Beatle break-up reflect back on Yoko and I'm starting to re-think my opinion on this matter and am beginning to feel that she really was the main reason for the break-up...
Here are some of those reasons....

...Lennon's disinterest in the band brought about by heroin use (Yoko got Lennon on heroin.)
...Lennon's decision to bring in Allen Klein (Yoko highly endorsed Klein --"I like Americans.")
...Dissension in the band (Yoko insisted on being in the recording sessions)
...Moving away from Paul (Yoko pushed Lennon to stray from Paul and to her)
...The band's growing apart (Yoko created a strain by being in the recording studio)

I have to disagree as these reasons all imply John didn't make any decision for himself and was 100% under Yoko's spell. I don't dispute he was under Yoko's spell. Hey, women have a certain power over men. But I don't buy this as complete. See my list... Some of my reasons are similar, but as much as it would be convenient to blame Yoko, I don't think it is fair.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: peterbell1 on September 29, 2011, 09:07:28 AM
A lot of the reasons of a Beatle break-up reflect back on Yoko and I'm starting to re-think my opinion on this matter and am beginning to feel that she really was the main reason for the break-up...
Here are some of those reasons....

...Lennon's disinterest in the band brought about by heroin use (Yoko got Lennon on heroin.)
...Lennon's decision to bring in Allen Klein (Yoko highly endorsed Klein --"I like Americans.")
...Dissension in the band (Yoko insisted on being in the recording sessions)
...Moving away from Paul (Yoko pushed Lennon to stray from Paul and to her)
...The band's growing apart (Yoko created a strain by being in the recording studio)

I don't think it's fair to put the blame entirely on Yoko.
John was a very strong-willed individual when he wanted to be - if he wanted to do something, he went ahead and did it. When Yoko came on the scene he didn't just suddenly turn into a puppy dog who would do whatever he was told.
If John was allowing Yoko to have a big influence over his life then that is what John wanted. It may have been his way of sticking two fingers up at the other Beatles - showing that he has left the "gang" and now has other things going on in his life outside the band.
There had always been tension between John and Paul but that tension had been controlled while Brian was alive - The Beatles had someone to give them some direction during the time they weren't in the studio.
When Brian died, the tensions were still there and there was no longer a unifying influence. For a while things went OK - Paul controlled the MMT idea and John and the others were happy to go along with it; the Maharishi thing was driven by George and John, with Paul happy to play second fiddle.
But the tensions were growing and they finally surfaced with various spats during the White Album sessions. This was before Apple and The Beatles became bogged down in legal arguments.
Perhaps if, after the White Album, they had taken a year off and did their own thing then they may have been able to return to The Beatles and carried on from there - recorded another album or two then taken another sabbatical. Instead, they ploughed straight on into 1969 with the farce that was the Get Back sessions. By this time George had flourished as a songwriter and brought some beautiful songs to the table, only to see them ignored. So the resentment in the band grows. Ringo has gained some recognition as an actor, and he too is seeing that there is life beyond The Beatles.
Bringing in Billy Preston worked well to stabilise things for a while, and it got them through Get Back and into the recording of Abbey Road. But there were, by now, so many outside influences and distractions - not just wives and girlfriends. The business and legal meetings were taking over from the music.
Their relationship as a band had been through some rocky patches, yet they had fixed things up and struggled on. But now things were getting nasty and too many things were said that couldn't be ignored or forgotten. People got hurt and the rift became too big to heal.
So Yoko was a part of the whole mess, but only a part. There was no one factor that could be blamed.
Indeed, going through the whole Beatlemania thing would have been enough to make anyone crazy - it was actually surprising they stayed together as long as they did!!
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Bobber on September 30, 2011, 06:37:35 AM
I think you said that pretty well Peter.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: nimrod on September 30, 2011, 11:29:53 AM
A lot of the reasons of a Beatle break-up reflect back on Yoko and I'm starting to re-think my opinion on this matter and am beginning to feel that she really was the main reason for the break-up...
Here are some of those reasons....

...Lennon's disinterest in the band brought about by heroin use (Yoko got Lennon on heroin.)
...Lennon's decision to bring in Allen Klein (Yoko highly endorsed Klein --"I like Americans.")
...Dissension in the band (Yoko insisted on being in the recording sessions)
...Moving away from Paul (Yoko pushed Lennon to stray from Paul and to her)
...The band's growing apart (Yoko created a strain by being in the recording studio)

John met Yoko, Paul met Linda, they all didnt get on

John wanted to make music/art & do protests with Yoko, Paul wanted to do gigs (the others didnt) then make music with Linda and get her Dad involved

end of Beatles.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: sregis on October 03, 2011, 02:59:53 PM
it's always interesting (but not surprising) that the breakup issue tends to focus on the forces outside the beatles themselves- yoko, linda, lawyers, no epstein, etc.  while these were all part of the matrix as people have pointed out here, my feeling has always been that the beatles broke up the beatles.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Nada Surf on December 31, 2011, 09:28:36 PM
I have to disagree as these reasons all imply John didn't make any decision for himself and was 100% under Yoko's spell. I don't dispute he was under Yoko's spell. Hey, women have a certain power over men. But I don't buy this as complete. See my list... Some of my reasons are similar, but as much as it would be convenient to blame Yoko, I don't think it is fair.
John needed a second mom...Every one of the reasons I posted could have been John's decisions, but as I stated they all trace back to Yoko...(By the way, are you on Facebook)?
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: TomMo on June 05, 2012, 05:15:17 AM
All the reasons mentioned in this post are pieces of the puzzle. The death of Brian Epstein was the catalyst. Had Brian lived longer, many of these other issues would not have occurred. I need to add George Harrison's dissatisfaction to the top of the list. George was one unhappy camper for all the usual reasons; few tracks on albums, his long-held hatred toward being a Beatle, being the "quiet" Beatle (when he really should have been called the "overshadowed" Beatle), the lack of respect from George Martin (which Sir George has admitted in hindsight), and more harmonious experiences working with other musicians. George was merely going through the motions during the "Let It Be" sessions. He and John were resignations just waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Jema on June 07, 2012, 12:51:54 AM
it's always interesting (but not surprising) that the breakup issue tends to focus on the forces outside the beatles themselves- yoko, linda, lawyers, no epstein, etc.  while these were all part of the matrix as people have pointed out here, my feeling has always been that the beatles broke up the beatles.
I totally agree with you about if a band breaks up, even though there may be contributing factors not having to do with the actual members themselves, in the end the band makes the final decision. I absolutely hate when people say "it's Yoko's fault the Beatles broke up" because I think that we all know it wasn't just her, sure I have to admit that she played a part in it, but not as gigantic as being the entire reason! I think that Brian's death is one of the bigger reasons, but honestly there's a bunch of reasons that make the whole as we all know. Going back to how the Beatles broke up the Beatles, I feel as though all of the other parts just made them all see that maybe they should just put an end to being a band and split up and go their seperate ways, bands can't last forever anyways. They all were getting annoyed and problems just kept coming, tensions were high and they didn't want to deal with it anymore. I'm probably totally wrong, I was just guessing on what I know and I'm sorry if this isn't accurate  ha2ha I think it would be "funny" if there was an interview where Paul and Ringo could honestly tell their opinions on why they broke up and not sugar coat it, that probably won't ever happen though but it'd be cool.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on June 07, 2012, 01:40:07 AM
I totally agree with you about if a band breaks up, even though there may be contributing factors not having to do with the actual members themselves, in the end the band makes the final decision. I absolutely hate when people say "it's Yoko's fault the Beatles broke up" because I think that we all know it wasn't just her, sure I have to admit that she played a part in it, but not as gigantic as being the entire reason! I think that Brian's death is one of the bigger reasons, but honestly there's a bunch of reasons that make the whole as we all know. Going back to how the Beatles broke up the Beatles, I feel as though all of the other parts just made them all see that maybe they should just put an end to being a band and split up and go their seperate ways, bands can't last forever anyways. They all were getting annoyed and problems just kept coming, tensions were high and they didn't want to deal with it anymore. I'm probably totally wrong, I was just guessing on what I know and I'm sorry if this isn't accurate  ha2ha I think it would be "funny" if there was an interview where Paul and Ringo could honestly tell their opinions on why they broke up and not sugar coat it, that probably won't ever happen though but it'd be cool.

Well put, Jema. 

And it's nice to see you back.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on June 10, 2012, 12:09:07 AM


Too much heavy drug use by John caused him to get too far out there, made him too dependant on Yoko & created more distance from the others.  Then when he tried to reassert control by ramming Allen Klein down Pauls throat, well................. Paul finally said that's it.  I quit.



Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: nimrod on June 10, 2012, 11:57:36 PM
John needed a second mom...Every one of the reasons I posted could have been John's decisions, but as I stated they all trace back to Yoko...(By the way, are you on Facebook)?

no, but yoko is
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: TomMo on June 11, 2012, 02:57:25 PM
no, but yoko is

And so is May Pang, who John should have dumped Yoko for while he had the chance. (Another Yoko slam from me that will probably keep me out of Rock 'n' Roll Heaven someday - I hear John hired Mal as the doorman/bouncer there.)
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: nimrod on June 11, 2012, 11:59:38 PM
And so is May Pang, who John should have dumped Yoko for while he had the chance. (Another Yoko slam from me that will probably keep me out of Rock 'n' Roll Heaven someday - I hear John hired Mal as the doorman/bouncer there.)

I dont understand the hate for Yoko

as soon as he hooked up with Yoko he lost interest in being a beatle, thats not Yoko's fault, its just John changed direction, but Yoko got the blame.

John at last found true love and happiness in his life, Im glad for him that he did
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Dcazz on June 12, 2012, 01:49:34 AM
I agree with the posts I've read about buisness, domestic and leadership problems but... one issue we don't talk about much is the effect the Manson murders must have had on them when that psycopath used some of their best work to commit such a horrible crime. I think if they were on the brink then this may have pushed them over. Aug.8th, 1969 was the day the murders took place and thats basically the end of them as a group.
They didn't talk about it much (nor would I) but it must have been devastating to them.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on June 12, 2012, 02:09:25 AM
I agree with the posts I've read about buisness, domestic and leadership problems but... one issue we don't talk about much is the effect the Manson murders must have had on them when that psycopath used some of their best work to commit such a horrible crime. I think if they were on the brink then this may have pushed them over. Aug.8th, 1969 was the day the murders took place and thats basically the end of them as a group.
They didn't talk about it much (nor would I) but it must have been devastating to them.

The story about Helter Skelter didn't really come out until their trial almost a year later.  I don't feel this was a factor in The Beatles breaking up.  They were on this path in 1968.

I'm not sure The Beatles felt devastated by the Helter Skelter connection either.  I think they were mature enough to recognize that there were crazy people out there who could take a song and twist its meaning around to suit their own mental illness and that sort of behaviour was beyond their control.  I have similar feelings about J.D. Salinger and The Catcher In The Rye.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: TomMo on June 12, 2012, 04:49:47 AM
I dont understand the hate for Yoko

My feelings about Yoko have nothing to do with all the crap about her being the cause of the Fabs' breakup. George supposedly told her to her face that she "gave off bad vibes", and unfairly or not, I feel those vibes. Not that she is evil or Satan's playmate, just that - to paraphrase Ahme - "She is not what she seems." Personal opinion, nothing more. If she made John happy, more power to her.
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Casbah on July 20, 2012, 11:57:17 PM
Does anyone think the early part of 1966 had anything to do with it? They just released Rubber Soul, took a break which was something they never did before and all of a sudden they were different people.

It's like they finally had time to think, "Hey who am I, how did I get here and now that I'm here, what am I doing? I've got all this money now, but..."

And then we all know what kind of year 66 was for them. I think that early break planted the seeds.

 ???
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Dcazz on July 21, 2012, 12:07:25 AM
I think ll the above have something  to do with it . I think the different directions they were headed and the formation of Apple probably did more to finish them than anything else. Lets face it, they were NOT buisness men.They ran Apple like it was fantasy world and I don't think there many people that would confront them with reality. Recipe for disaster!
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Mairi on July 21, 2012, 03:02:55 AM
They broke up because they saw where the Rolling Stones were headed and didn't want to end up the same way...
Title: Re: Opinion on why the Beatles broke up?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 21, 2012, 04:21:49 AM
They broke up because they saw where the Rolling Stones were headed and didn't want to end up the same way...


...drunken sailors.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6yu28Cl5F1rz307wo1_1280.jpg)

Rolling Stones-Only Rock and Roll (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjxDutxJgRs#noexternalembed-ws)