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[Sondra]

I feel like there's been enough stuff over the years that has come out about Yoko that kind of confirms that she's not the nicest person in the world, is manipulative and self-serving. Not to mention the exploitation that we have seen first hand. That and the fact that some pretty nice people seem to really not like her. And they know her. And I'm not just talking Paul, George, Ringo, and Julian. Others have commented.

[Kevin]

I guess I just think Yoko was doing what Yoko always did. Whenever I see them lurking in the studio, or giving interviews from laundry bags, I don't think "Yoko you b*tch" I think "John you pratt." To paraphrase the man himself, he should have known better.

[tkitna]

I agree with you to a point there Kev. I hold John just as responsible as Yoko for everything. I just think that Yoko led John along with a short leash at the time and he allowed it to happen. I think John felt that she was his out from the Beatles and he played that for all it was worth. She snapped and he jumped though. Weak minded fool.

[AngeloMysterioso]

I think if anyone should be blamed for her intrusion into The Beatles recording process then it should be John. It was his girlfriend/wife, he invited her in and he could have had her out. They were his friends and work partners, not hers. It was his call.
But I debate with myself over this. If Paul or George had a caucasian junkie girlfriend who lay around the studio would it have caused this level of debate? Is there some latent racism (in me included) that makes her a target, plus the fact that she was a rather driven and strong woman who dared to intrude into the Beatles precious masculine inner circle? Would we like her more if she's been a compliant background companion like Linda? Beatle fans tend to like their Beatle wives pretty, silent and compliant. Ask Heather.

You have very interesting points here, Kevin.

I would however suggest that, perhaps Yoko acted as a catalyst in the Beatles’ final split. And that it might be a reason why some people more or less demonized her at that time.

It must be reaffirmed that it is John first, from 1966 on, who seriously considered to opt out. He told so repeatedly – albeit long after the Beatles’ final split. He also admitted that he lacked the guts to do positively something about it – in his own words. So, instead of causing or facing a potentially gloomy outcome, John more or less left the circumstances unfold… little by little, he distanced himself from the group. His input became less and less important qualitatively and quantitatively. On a more personal level, he intensively experimented with drugs, namely acid – long before Yoko was in the vicinity. Much, much more than the other boys (who became somewhat concerned about John’s abuse of mind altering substances as early as 1966).

I am not suggesting here that John’s attitude was the only, or even main ground for the Beatles’ ending, nor am I judging him for what he has done or not. But the fact remains that when Yoko appeared, the situation evolved faster. As early as late 1968, he got openly involved with other musicians. A few months after, he more or less openly acted as if the Beatles were over. And so on and so forth.

[Kevin]

But the fact remains that when Yoko appeared, the situation evolved faster.

But we don't know that do we? Without Yoko's arrival John could have done a Brian Jones or Syd Barrett. By giving him direction, purpose and reinvigorating his ego she may well just as easily have prolonged John's life as a Beatle? Maybe.

[Jai Guru Deva.]

Weak minded fool.

Alright, I don't mean to get whiny but don't talk about John like that!  Isn't this a place where we're supposed to admire The Beatles, not pick them apart in ways that might not even be accurate, considering WE WEREN'T THERE?
And anyway, even if it was entirely his fault about Yoko, it's not like he made the whole bloody world end.  The Beatles were crumbling before Yoko even got there.  And John was only human.  Human's long for things, humans sometimes don't think things through.  Humans are vulnerable.  And they make mistakes.
I'm not lashing out in an intentionally offensive way.  I'm just saying, no one lives their lives perfectly.  Don't you think that if we could talk to John today, he'd be sorry?

xxx

[AngeloMysterioso]

But we don't know that do we? Without Yoko's arrival John could have done a Brian Jones or Syd Barrett. By giving him direction, purpose and reinvigorating his ego she may well just as easily have prolonged John's life as a Beatle? Maybe.

Obviously, no one knows for sure what would have happened if Yoko would not have appeared in John’s life. It will remain forever and ever pure academic speculation.

However, what I suggested is that some people hate Yoko because they think that she inspirited John to leave the Beatles. What I say is that most probably, Yoko simply backed John in his own previous direction. And this direction, according to his very own words, was to get out of there, sooner or later. In other words, the facts I have stated seem to indicate that the more or less latent tendencies of John to distance himself from the Beatles somewhat intensified when Yoko appeared.

Again, sure we can theorize that Yoko might have saved John from drug overdose or mental illness. Or stepped into the studio to give him the necessary support to stay with the Beatles. Or that if Yoko would not have been around, John would have left the Beatles much, much earlier; and so on and so forth. But I have read nothing to support these possibilities.

[tkitna]

Alright, I don't mean to get whiny but don't talk about John like that!

Lol. I dont mean to be offensive here, but I dont really care how you feel when I talk about John. Its a Beatles forum and we talk about the Beatles. They werent perfect so expect to take the good with the bad. Nobody said everthing has to be positive just because its in Johns section. The other three members get the same treatment when its called for.

Isn't this a place where we're supposed to admire The Beatles, not pick them apart in ways that might not even be accurate, considering WE WEREN'T THERE?

Being that we werent there is all the more reason why we should be allowed to voice our opinions. I imagine we all admire the Beatles in some fashion since we're members here, but maybe its the music side of things. Yeah, the music was great, but that doesnt mean that they couldnt have been sh*tty people in some cases (they all were at times).
 

And anyway, even if it was entirely his fault about Yoko, it's not like he made the whole bloody world end.  The Beatles were crumbling before Yoko even got there.

This has been stated numerous times already. Nobodys arguing that Yoko or John were the main reasons the band split.

And John was only human.  Human's long for things, humans sometimes don't think things through.  Humans are vulnerable.  And they make mistakes.

This is correct, so why are you getting so defensive when he's gets called on for being human? He f***ed up a lot and sometimes it gets mentioned. I'm not going to sugarcoat it just because he was a Beatle.

I'm not lashing out in an intentionally offensive way.  I'm just saying, no one lives their lives perfectly.  Don't you think that if we could talk to John today, he'd be sorry?

What would he apologize for?

[Jai Guru Deva.]

Forget it, it's not even worth arguing about.  I don't put John on a pedastal because he was a Beatle, or just because I have an affinity with him, which I do, rather inexplicably.  I'd just rather not hear people tear him apart when he's been such a powerful source of comfort in not only my life, but others too.  I hope I didn't offend, but I'm not saying any more.

xxx

[Tetra]

I think that the question about Yoko's and John's relationships is very difficult for me, cause I haven't found the correct, well-defined answer in my thoughts. Yes, maybe I agree that she was the main reason of "crashing" The Beatles, and that she had influenced badly on John but...I think she really reflects him, his character, minds. He found himself inside this woman and she was everything for him. I can say that she was perfect, his ideal and he saw her as a mother, sister, friend, wife... Maybe she had/has something that no woman had/has in soul, in mind. I mean she was very unusual, but she was his, only his woman. I think if there were no Yoko, John wouldn't be the real John Lennon, whom we knows. right?

[tkitna]

I mean she was very unusual, but she was his, only his woman.

I wonder if David Spinozza could reflect on this?

[Almighty Doer of Stuff]

More uncited Wikipedia, from Spinozza's article:

"After the release of Mind Games, Lennon and Ono split, with Lennon taking their assistant May Pang to Los Angeles; a relationship that carried Ono's sanction. Ono turned her attentions to Spinozza, who encouraged her to completely break with Lennon, if she did not want to stay married to him. Ono nonetheless stayed in daily contact with Lennon and Pang, causing Spinozza's interest in her to wane."

If this is true (and I don't know if it is, I don't read biographies really, even if they're Beatles related, so I don't know where if anywhere this info comes from), it seems to indicate that while Yoko did date Spinozza during the Lost Weekend, she wasn't really into him, and was still attached to John. The same cannot be said of John, who once said, not to diminish his love for Yoko but nevertheless, that his time with May Pang was a very happy time for him.

How much of this happiness was a result of constantly being coked up (which he was at that time) was not revealed, however.

[sgt. peppie]

This is a documentary called 'The real John Lennon', there's interviews with Cynthia, May, John's cousin, and half sister, and other people associated with him.

The Real John Lennon - Part 6

The Real John Lennon - Part 7

The Real John Lennon - Part 8

[AngeloMysterioso]

Very interesting videos, sgt. peppie. Thanks for sharing. I was aware of most of it, apart from a few details : it did reactivate my memories about the last years of John, more specifically about the nature of his relationship with Yoko and Julian.

Now, to answer the question of this topic Why does everyone hate Yoko? First of all, not everyone in this documentary specifically appeared to hate Yoko. However, most suggest that they viewed Yoko as very controlling; then some would go further saying that John would be more himself when he was away from her. In addition, Cynthia also states that John dissapeared from Julian’s life, in the early 1970’s, and that Yoko was behind it all (mainly because of her controlling attitude). I guess these are grounds for people to hate Yoko. I guess one has seen less hatred against Linda for getting into Paul’s life, since there were no kids left behind and such.