DM's Beatles forums
Other forums => Different Conversations => Topic started by: Ssarah on September 13, 2004, 06:46:59 PM
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So its been three years since the twin towers were destroyed. (I understand for those not in the U.S. it might not make much of a difference in your life)
What p*sses me off to no end is that not only did we lose so many lives because of the towers collapsing but now we have to send people over to Iraq and more are losing lives still because of it. I didn't lose anyone in the towers close to me but on 9-11 I hung out with 6 guys all going to Iraq on the 6th of October..... for two years. Here I have been hanging out with friends for about 7 months, they have been there for me, visited me in the hospital, hell every single one of them sent me flowers. And whats really sad is there is a good chance one might not even come back and Im extreamly close with one of them. And what blows my mind is three are 18 two are 19 and one is 22. It is just nutts thinking someone my age is going to possibly lose their life. But I guess war has always been like that.
Honestly I am being extreamly selfish. These boys signed up knowing what they were doing but wanting to help their country and here I am complaining when they arn't.
Sorry, guess I had to rant just a little bit.
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You're friends are not in Iraq because of 9/11. However i understand your frustration, I lost an older friend in Iraq myself. War truly is a horrible thing.
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It would be easier to support the war if we were sure of the motives of us being over there. It's become unclear to many. Anyway, I think 911 affected the world. We're certainly not the only ones fighting over there. You know, I never thought I'd see our county go to war in my lifetime. It shows just how safe we all felt. Boy were we wrong.
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I may not be American but 9-11 did affect Canadians. Our soldiers were sent to Afghanistan. We had four of them killed in a friendly fire incident. One of those soldiers killed was the husband of one of my coworkers. I too think that 9-11 affected the world.
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If it was my decision I would order our troops to go over there and take out every single government building, all the tv, radio towers etc and then tell them to elect a new leader and rebuild.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=4 date=1095136281]If it was my decision I would order our troops to go over there and take out every single government building, all the tv, radio towers etc and then tell them to elect a new leader and rebuild. [/quote]
LOL...you know, that just could work!
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The American Way of thinking....nothing like it. :)
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American Way of thinking? Actually I have heard more people say things like....lets just Nuke um like we did Japan. etc. But really...its not the peoples fault in Iraq its their government.
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You're not being guilty for not wanting your friends sent to Iraq. People in this country sign up for military service knowing they can be sent to war, but they do it under the promise that they won't be sent into combat unless it's absolutely necessary to protect OUR freedom. And what are they doing to protect OUR freedom? Absolutely nothing. They're dying to secure the financial assets of the Bush family alone, and that's no reason for more than a thousand American soldiers to die.
Vote Kerry 2004!!!
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Bush isn't my favorite person but I think we do need to do something about Iraq's government. I think he is just doing it the wrong way perhaps your right---to secure the financial assets of the Bush family. I think we could do it quicker and even if we do happen to kill some innocent people in Iraq...in the long run we will lose less then if we do what we are doing now.
But I think if we warned them hey, we are going the bomb the hell out of your government buildings so stay in your house I dont think many innocent would die. I just can't see why they are being sent there for two years? Can anyone explain that to me? Does the Army really think this "War" will be going on that long?
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=0 date=1095101219]So its been three years since the twin towers were destroyed. (I understand for those not in the U.S. it might not make much of a difference in your life) [/quote]
Wrong... I live in the Netherlands and after 9-11 I lost my job TWICE within a year. because 9-11 had a terrible effect on our economy as well.
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Yeah I understand it effected lots of people, I just didn't want anyone to feel obligated or feel like they had to care or act like they had to care. It's a touchy subject.
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What really p*sses me off about the American attitude towards 9-11 and the war for oi... oops, I mean "war on terror" (which was to my opinion a direct result of 9-11), is that Americans only talk about the Americans that died on 9-11 and the Americans that died in Iraq, while they simply forget about the much higher number of INNOCENT citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan that got killed after 9-11... America just doesn't seem to care about that and that makes me sick.
I know not all Americans are like that though, and don't get me wrong, this is no personal attack on anyone here and I absolutely don't want to disrespect the victims of 9-11 and the war in Iraq...
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I think part of that is when we were attacked it was a cheap shot... we wern't really expecting it. When we went into this "War" everyone knew innocent people were going to die. But I agree that innocent people being killed no matter where they live is bad. That's why I think we should bomb their government, TV, Radio stations etc and pull out and give them a chance to elect a better leader that wont get their innocent people killed and to rebuild.
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but surely there's a better way to help a contry than bomb it. if that happened they wouldnt go peacefully into a democratic election. it'd be marshall law an there would be chaos on the streets. chances are some other lunatic would get power. the war on terror's a good idea but terror is such an abstract concept. you can never get rid of it. some people would say israel is a terroist state. look wat happened in russia, america isnt getting involved in that. there's not really any al quada activity in iraq. most of them are based in the US.
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Well if that happened we'd have to just scare the hell out of them. make them see that they better now bomb anyone else.
We nuked Japan....they backed off...why? Because they were scared. We need to scare Iraq. Survival of the fittest?
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maybe. but would you like to live in a world were everyone was scared of getting nuked?
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First and foremost let's not confuse 9-11 with the war in Iraq, they are completely diffrent. Little Bush went into office with an agenda and at the top of that agenda was Iraq, not al queerda. Memo's from the Clinton admin. talking about bin laden and the use of commercial airlines in terroism attacks on the USA Had been given to
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=15 date=1095187330]Well if that happened we'd have to just scare the hell out of them.
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[quote by=Kiss_My_Bad_Self link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=16 date=1095192334]maybe. but would you like to live in a world were everyone was scared of getting nuked?[/quote]
This is exactlty what the "W" admin. wants you to think. If your scared you will re-elect him, just as cheney said if bush was not re-elected we were due to be"hit" again by al queerda. Once again making you think bush is the only one that can scare off that middle eastern "boogie man osamabinforgotten". This was the same b.s. reagan used about Russia in the early to late 80s. When in fact Russia was just as scared of us. If reagan was not in office Russia would bomb the hell out us, only at that time voters believed the hype. Hopefully we can see through that bunch of garbage this time.
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We nuked Japan....they backed off...why? Because they were scared. We need to scare Iraq. Survival of the fittest?*
I genuinely believe the Americans (and English) are petrified of the far east, such an unbalanced diverse and 'different' culture. Mind-sets are different, and I feel when it comes to War...the likes of Japan etc are well-advised in the 'mad-house tactics'
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I think that America should've stayed away from Iraq. America didn't and doesn't belong there. Sure Saddam was a very evil man that needed to be removed, but let's face it: there are a couple of dozen countries in the world that have a cruel and unjust dictator, and of all these dictators the US removed just one and that also happens to be the dictator of the richest of all those countries. Coincidence? I think not... There are plenty of poor African, Southern American and Asian countries with cruel dictators, and do you think Bush would even consider burning his fingers on any of them? Of course not. And a terrorist threat from Iraq? That was obviously a lie. Bush claimed he was absolutely sure there were chemical weapons in Iraq and to this day, he hasn't been able to show any convincing evidence to justify his suspicion.
It's time to accept that the Middle East has a culture of it's own and that the West has a culture of it's own, and that we're NEVER going to understand each other. We think their culture is evil, they think the same of our culture, and they're not going to change their minds no matter what and neither are we. Sure the Middle East has some really f***ed up stuff going on, but that's something they're going to have to take care of by themselves, because it's obvious that they simply DON'T WANT us Western people running their countries, which I think it totally understandable (which by the way certainly doesn't mean that I'm trying to justify any terrorist actions).
The US government tries to make us believe that there is absolutely no way that we can stop terrorists. That's a lie, cause there is a way and they know it: we should get our asses out of those people's countries and stop interfering with their politics, and I can guarantee you that there'll be no more Al Qaida terrorism in the Western world. That's how it works in this world: if you don't want trouble with certain people, the best way to not get trouble is to leave them alone.
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[quote by=Kiss_My_Bad_Self link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=16 date=1095192334]maybe. but would you like to live in a world were everyone was scared of getting nuked?[/quote]
How do you think all those Iraqi's felt when Bush was bombing their cities to the ground? What kind of world do you think they want to live in?
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[quote by=RICKENBACKER325 link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=17 date=1095194068]First and foremost let's not confuse 9-11 with the war in Iraq, they are completely diffrent.[/quote]
Even if they are, it's a fact that Bush used 9-11 as the main excuse to start the war in Iraq.
And I hate to say it (and please don't get me wrong), but in a way 9-11 was a blessing for Bush. Because 9-11 gave Bush a very powerful tool in his hands: it scared the sh*t out of the masses. And history has tought us that if there's one effective way to control the masses, it's to scare the sh*t out of them. Look at communism: be different and you'll be removed from society. So they stay in line. Look at Christianity: don't live by the bible and you'll burn in hell. So they stay in line. Look at the USA nowadays: don't re-elect Bush and terrorists will bomb your house. It's clear to see that Bush is using the terrorist threat to get anything he wants. Give up your privacy right, or the terrorists will get us! Let us bomb innocent civilians in far foreign countries, or the terrorists will get us! Re-elect me, or the terrorists will get us! Allow us to arrest Arabians living in the US without a valid reason, or the terrorists will get us!
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Oh, I hope I'm not offending anyone here by the way... I just have very strong opinions about this subject and it's very hard for me not to give them because this subject is just too damn important.
And I don't hate the USA. Just it's government.
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If they didn't send terrorists then we wouldn't have to bomb them... Ok so lets say 9-11 happened and we turn the other cheek say who gives a care. If we leave them alone they will leave us alone.... umm not the point is they didn't leave us alone in the first place. And then they will do it again...and again and again. There are countrys with bad leaders that we leave alone you are right on that. But they are leaving us along as well.
Its like a little kid... you have to tell them NO or they will do it again. You have to have some kind of punishment. We might not like their ways but atleast we don't have someone on every single one of our television channels saying... Iraq is bad... They are using TV and Radio over there to brain wash their people.
<<Ssarah, we bombed Japan because we were ruuning out of resource's and men to fight. >>
If we had not bombed them even more people would have died. It ended the war and although it is brutal I think it was for the best.
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[quote by=Biscuit_Power link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=24 date=1095199776]Oh, I hope I'm not offending anyone here by the way... I just have very strong opinions about this subject and it's very hard for me not to give them because this subject is just too damn important.
And I don't hate the USA. Just it's government.[/quote]
Don't worry about it, I can debate something without getting personal.
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9-11 was a blessing to the little sawed off prick bush, because everything else he did was in the toilet, loss of jobs, economy in deep recession, spriraling energy cost. and no way to see the light and the end of the tunnel. I think were saying the same thing just in differnet points. Also right after 9-11 if you disagreed with "dubya" you were unpatriotic, what I wanted to know was when did bush become the patriot that every other American was measured by? It was easy for him to use 9-11 as an excuse. When he could'nt link al queerda to saddam, it was weapons of mass destruction, oh wait they did not find any, then it was liberate the Iraqi people. Well we have seen how much they want us there. Insurgents have retaken three major cities back and were getting our boys killed every day to protect W's oil field assets with little or no help from those Iraqi people that were going to throw rose's at our feet when we got there. Ssarah, yes we had to bomb Japan to end WWII, if not, your right there massive casualties do to the prolonged effort. As I said it was the last resort.
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I do believe there are people who want to be liberated. However those are the ones that are going to keep quiet and are scared. The ones that are going to stand out are the ones who don't want to be liberated and who are going to plant the car bombs etc etc. Thats why I think we should just bomb the gov. there and let them start all over.
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^^Great plan, bomb the hell out of all their institutins and let them deal with it. SSarah, can you even imagine someone doing that to us??? We would never recover fully.
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Ssarah, we already took out saddams government, there's no goverment to bomb! What we are dealing with now are loyalist to saddam and other muslim factions that want to control Iraq the same way as saddam did. Can you tell the difference between someone who's loyal to saddam and someone who's not just by looking at them? For that matter can you tell the difference between the muslim factions that want rule over Iraq from the ones that dont? To do what your saying we would have to kill them all and let God sort them out, to use a cliche'.
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No but we could Level all the TV stations and Radio towers and their government buildings.
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=29 date=1095201999]^^Great plan, bomb the hell out of all their institutins and let them deal with it.
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=29 date=1095201999]^^Great plan, bomb the hell out of all their institutins and let them deal with it.
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Oh sorry SSarah didnt see that last response. And Japan and Iraq are very different. Japan was not divided and full of chaotic insurgencies after its attack.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=31 date=1095202455]No but we could Level all the TV stations and Radio towers and their government buildings.
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its a viciuos cycle aint it ric?
Bush must go
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Also dont forget that everything we blow up, we are also paying to rebuild and when I say "we", I mean us the taxpayers. remember "w" promising that we were not going to be nation builders? How many billions is now "Dubya"?
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=36 date=1095203190]its a viciuos cycle aint it ric?
Bush must go[/quote]
AMEN!!! "Sun" AMEN!!!
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You can't just leave them alone.... Or someone worse will come to power. And the purpose of bombing the stations is so that we could get the hell out of there. You can't ignore something and expect it to go away.
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Ok im going to work...
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Well just what the hell are we going to do? Play nursemaid to them till the end of time? Again why bomb the stations we have control over? As far as who takes over in the government there, it dont really matter 5 minutes after we are gone someone will overthrow the powers in place. Those people do not understand our way of life and democracy. No matter how much we try to force them to embrace it, even though we all know this war was not about democracy and freedom. Unless your talking of liberating the oil wells. You dont miss what you never had Ssarah. They have never been under a democracy.
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Ssarah, please accept my apology, as I was not trying to start an arguement (ala j.k.) Its just that this is a subject I feel very strongly about.
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Everyone should feel passionate about their government, its what makes America great.(well all democracies actually I'm just American so thtas what I say)
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i don't believe in governing by men.............nor women.
there is a certain complacency that i enjoy because i deal only with individuals....i don't accept that things cannot be changed.i realize survival of the fitest applies to todays world more than ever but karma comes back around.
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I will smite you for that
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I like to argue actually---- as long as its over something worth while and people are mature enough not to take it personally.
If we don't believe they can change, and believe they will keep doing what they are doing... perhaps next time run into the building you work in or instead take out a school, then the best solution would just to be like screw them and nuke um. No matter what we do there is going to be positive points and negative points.
As for Karma I totally agree. In history there is always some greater nation. Someone that is the "Big Bully". And everytime that "Nation" falls. I believe the U.S. will fall in time. Until then though its going to play the role.
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Yes, arguing can be fun. And people here are very mature about it and rarely ever let their emotions get the better of them.
Too bad Wayne isn't still here. He could provide some comedic, infantile "Your wrong because you don't agree with me!"'s. Whatever happened to ol' Wayne anyhow?
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[quote by=strutter84 link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=47 date=1095224486]Yes, arguing can be fun.
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My favorite was when he called us mental midgets for thinking that Van Halen was a hair metal band.
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Well he obviously got to Ya'll because you're talking about him still. My attitude on that is that it's not worth my time to even talk about him. ::)
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"its what makes America great.(well all democracies)"
Personally, I think the very safe and just system that we (America England etc) live with can only be classed roughly as Democratic States, with the War on Iraq just emphasisng what demons already lie unseen among the figures of Power.
America Feels it has a duty to step into another Country (regardless of Culure, Religion or even law) and sort out whatever is threating the USA's Policies..which all boils down to Global domination (Not in the James Bond Sense..ironic how its English :p) America or any Country in that sense, does not start a war if their isnt any positives which will they benefit from...its basic tactics which were born when Humans were first created (not in the disney like Biblical sense)
This again is not a personal attack on Americans, but the Bush administration, and politics on general.
My own country is the same, with the perception of New Labour changing after every new tabloid release. Its just our pickings are more confined, and sadly Labour seems the only choice.
Politics.... who needs em :)
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I suppose if I really hated the fact that my country was a bully I could go live in a third world country and die of disease and starvation.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=25 date=1095200071]If they didn't send terrorists then we wouldn't have to bomb them... [/quote]
1. IRAQ DIDN'T SEND TERRORISTS.
2. Terrorists came to the USA because they USA came to their countries years ago.
[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=25 date=1095200071]umm not the point is they didn't leave us alone in the first place. [/quote]
Wrong. America didn't leave THEM alone first. There were Americans in the Middle East (and not for vacation) long before people from the middle east came to America.
[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=25 date=1095200071] There are countrys with bad leaders that we leave alone you are right on that. But they are leaving us along as well. [/quote]
What did Saddam ever do to the US (outside of Iraq I mean)???
[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=25 date=1095200071]
If we had not bombed them even more people would have died. It ended the war and although it is brutal I think it was for the best. [/quote]
Do you realize those bombings killed nearly 200.000 people? How can you POSSIBLY think it was a good sollution?
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=32 date=1095202539]
You're right, Japan never fully recovered either.
[/quote]
Japan did, 200.000 victims and their millions of friends and relatives didn't.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=46 date=1095222791]then the best solution would just to be like screw them and nuke um. [/quote]
Yeah, that's a nice philosophy... If you don't like it, just nuke it. Destroy it. Kill it. Get it away. Out of my sight. Imagine that everyone thought like this and just destroyed everything they didn't like. Then we'd all live to witness the world end. Probably even before the weekend.
[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=46 date=1095222791]I like to argue actually---- as long as its over something worth while and people are mature enough not to take it personally. [/quote]
Amen. :)
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=52 date=1095260844]I suppose if I really hated the fact that my country was a bully I could go live in a third world country and die of disease and starvation. [/quote]
I don't agree with that. "Love it or leave it" is bullsh*t. Imagine that everyone that lives in the USA would be perfectly happy with the way the USA is right now... Then there wouldn't be any progression or improvement anymore.
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[quote by=Biscuit_Power link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=55 date=1095266395]
Yeah, that's a nice philosophy... If you don't like it, just nuke it. Destroy it. Kill it. Get it away. Out of my sight. Imagine that everyone thought like this and just destroyed everything they didn't like. Then we'd all live to witness the world end. Probably even before the weekend.
Amen. :)[/quote]
There is such a thing as sarcasm.
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[quote by=Biscuit_Power link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=53 date=1095266036]
Do you realize those bombings killed nearly 200.000 people? How can you POSSIBLY think it was a good sollution? [/quote]
Even more would have died if we hadn't of bombed them so yes I think it was a good solution.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=58 date=1095273729]
Even more would have died if we hadn't of bombed them so yes I think it was a good solution.
[/quote]
More than 200.000 would have died? I'd like to know the facts that you base that knowledge on...
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I feel sympathy for the families of those who lost their lives on 9/11.
But I do not under any circumstances agree with what is going on in Iraq. To put it simply, it's just plain wrong to punish innocent people (especially children) for what a few sick twisted individuals did.
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^^^That post is exactly what i'm talking about. "Punishing Iraq for what a few did". Iraq WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11. That is a fact. Yet people always group the two together.
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=61 date=1095303639]^^^That post is exactly what i'm talking about.
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[quote by=misterchaz link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=62 date=1095305550]
You can thank Bush for that.
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Lets not kid ourselves here, As i said before, Iraq and 9-11 are two separate things and are not linked. The "war" in Iraq is not, and never was about weapons, liberation, or terrorist in Iraq. In a nutshell it is about OIL, MONEY, and POWER and a personal vandeta dubya had for saddam.
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I vote Kerry. He wants to pull troops.
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Republican Richard Nixon was voted in, his election campaign heavily focused around the withdrawal of troops from Vietnam...
the role of president was secured by feeding the public the anti-war jargon that was rife at the time..
similarities are striking arent they.. . .
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98% of the time history repeats.
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[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=66 date=1095346689]Republican Richard Nixon was voted in, his election campaign heavily focused around the withdrawal of troops from Vietnam...
the role of president was secured by feeding the public the anti-war jargon that was rife at the time..
similarities are striking arent they..
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=65 date=1095346189]I vote Kerry.
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There all as bad as each other.
Well, Bush is slightly worse as the 'ultimate right-wing dictator monster'. :)
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[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=70 date=1095357373]There all as bad as each other.
Well, Bush is slightly worse as the 'ultimate right-wing dictator monster'. :) [/quote]
You'll get no arguement here! I whole heartedly agree!
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Will Smith has always said that when he gets of age he is going to run for president.
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I feel American politics has just summed up..
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=61 date=1095303639]^^^That post is exactly what i'm talking about.
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Out troops aren't in iraq of 9/11?? What a crock of bull!! (Sorry but seriously) Saddam had been in power for many many years before 9/11 and we didn't decide to go nuke some innocent civilians over there until after 9/11 and then its like ATTACK! Lets kill like they killed, except we're still losing lives, and we're losing money and losing respect in our government.
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I said that Iraq and 9/11 were not related. Obviously Bush has used 9/11 to further his agenda in Iraq and convinced people that the two are related.
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Right. Our troops are in Iraq only to secure the Bush families financial assets. Nothing to do with 9/11. Absolutely nothing. No one can ever come up with a link between Sadam and 9/11 because there are none.
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Oh my god, can you stop saying
<< Our troops are in Iraq only to secure the Bush families financial assets.>>
?
I mean really I'm sure Bush is taking advantage of the situation for that but that's not the only flipping reason!
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=78 date=1095691518]I mean really I'm sure Bush is taking advantage of the situation for that but that's not the only flipping reason! [/quote]
I wish I could believe that... But I can't.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's only reason. Bush couldn't give a flying flip about the peoples freedom in Iraq. We all know there's no weapons of mass destruction and Iraq had absolutely no ties with the events that occured on 9/11. It's all about money. It makes the world turn.
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I think it is a big reason but I do not think its the only reason. (first time I've been irritated in this thread)
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Then what do you think another reason is that we're there?
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Because our country was threatened and Bush doesn't know what to do about it so he jumped to go to Iraq because he feels he has to do something or the people will think he is doing nothing and wont vote for him again.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=83 date=1095706312]Because our country was threatened and Bush doesn't know what to do about it so he jumped to go to Iraq because he feels he has to do something or the people will think he is doing nothing and wont vote for him again. [/quote]
To this day, Bush hasn't been able to show even the slightest bit of evidence to prove that his suspicion of ties between Al Qaida and Iraq wes justified. He knew damn well what he did.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=81 date=1095705311]I think it is a big reason but I do not think its the only reason.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=83 date=1095706312]Because our country was threatened and Bush doesn't know what to do about it so he jumped to go to Iraq because he feels he has to do something or the people will think he is doing nothing and wont vote for him again. [/quote]
I think the reasons for War etc are on a slightly more complex level.
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[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=86 date=1095710009]
I think the reasons for War etc are on a slightly more complex level.[/quote]
Really? That's exactly what I think as well. Which is why I do not agree that the only reason Bush went to war is for the money.
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[quote by=Biscuit_Power link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=85 date=1095708931]
It sounds to me like you're irritated just because people won't agree with you...[/quote]
No because I am not set on one way. I totally agree that money plays a part in it but people can't accept that that might not be the only reason. Things usually happen for more then one reason.
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..and Helping the Iraq people isnt one of them.
They do, because they must, but this is not a priority..merely a side objective which keeps Human Rights-organisations at bay.
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[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=89 date=1095716015]..and Helping the Iraq people isnt one of them.
They do, because they must, but this is not a priority..merely a side objective which keeps Human Rights-organisations at bay.[/quote]
My thoughts exactly.
I agree with you Sarah that normal people wouldn't start a war just for financial reasons, but we have to face the fact that George W. Bush is not a normal human being... Sad but true... In his years as governor and president he made it pretty clear that a human life doesn't have that much value to him...
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Money is definetely not the only reason that we are in Iraq. Interest in Afganistan was waning, and Bush new another war would help scare voters from him. And who knows maybe he actually does believe his lies about WMD's and 9/11.
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If anyone does not believe money is a key factor in the "war" in Iraq. Can anyone tell me what certain vice president (and former "big wig" of Haliburton who happens to still own interest in Haliburton) let a certain company go in with "no bid contracts" and control most all reconstruction,fuel shipments,meal distribution,and there are other roles this company plays i just cant remember them all now. I think the company's name was........hum........let me see........ it started with an h...???? oh yeah, I remember now it was Haliburton. This was one key factor, but there were others that I all ready went over earlier in this thread.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=83 date=1095706312]Because our country was threatened and Bush doesn't know what to do about it so he jumped to go to Iraq because he feels he has to do something or the people will think he is doing nothing and wont vote for him again. [/quote]
You know that's a damn fine thought there, Ssarah. One that doesn't usually get discussed.
You said it perfectly.
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[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=86 date=1095710009]
I think the reasons for War etc are on a slightly more complex level.[/quote]
Indeed it is, but Ssarah hit the nail on the head with that analysis. It's not the ONLY reason but is certainly one of the top reasons.
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WAR IS OVER IF YOU WANT IT
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[quote by=Beatle_Ed link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=95 date=1095754002]WAR IS OVER IF YOU WANT IT[/quote]
Say what now?
Anyhow we didn't go to Iraq because Bush got scared and didn't know what to do. When Bush entered the White House he already had plans to attack Iraq and get revenge for his dead, as well as protect his own money, and make a considerable sum more of it. Then 9/11 happened and he thought to himself "Hell yes! Now I can attack Iraq......provided they had something to do with this." Then he found it they didn't and thought "Dammit! Now I have to go after this other guy, who did this with the CIA training my dad gave him." After a while fake pursuing the real bad guy he decided to divert the peoples attention over to Iraq so he could do what he had been planning from the beginning, so he tried to tie Iraq with 9/11, and establish that Iraq was a massive threat to the United States. And since all Middle Easterners are the same to Americans, he got to do what he wanted.
I'll bet he's glad now that he was able to get his brother to rig up the election for him.
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[quote by=Beatle_Ed link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=95 date=1095754002]WAR IS OVER IF YOU WANT IT[/quote]
That's true, but unfortionately there are some very powerful people that seem to want war...
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[quote by=strutter84 link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=96 date=1095755958]
Say what now?
Anyhow we didn't go to Iraq because Bush got scared and didn't know what to do.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=98 date=1095777927]Maybe you should try and get over your blinding hate for Bush and just try and look at it from a different view. [/quote]
Since I guess this is probably also directed towards me:
Before 2000 I never heard of George W. Bush so I haven't always hated him. His actions through the years made me hate him. So he personally created all that blinding hate towards himself.
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Talking about different points of view... I'm not even 100% sure that Bush had nothing to do with 9-11... Yeah that's right... I'm probably going way too far for some of you, but I think there is a possibility that George W. Bush was behind 9-11... Just look at the facts.
1) Bush never made a big deal of sending people to their death by the dozens. He set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history, and he didn't hesitate to start an unjust war. Furthermore he authorized the use of cluster bombs and daisy cutters in populated areas of Iraq, which killed about 10.000 (!!!) innocent civilians. That's about 3 times as many people as died in New York... He didn't hesitate to kill 10.000 Iraqi civilians, so it's not that strange to think he could've killed 3.000 innocent American civilians as wel... And that's not all: Bush is a religious fanatic that believes in the apocalypse and that ONLY Evangelical Christians are eligible for the afterlife anyway (true fact!).
2) 9-11 Practically gave Dubya super powers. You could've expected that after 9-11, all hell would break loose and that people in their blind anger and fear would let their leader get away with just about anything.
3) During the first few days after 9-11, no one was allowed to leave the US... Except for several relatives of Osama Bin Laden that lived in the US! Nobody even bothered to ask them any questions... (again, not a rumor but a fact).
4) The Bush and Bin Laden families go way back... Bush sr. and the Bin Laden family were business partners in the 80's (yet another fact).
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And someday it will be a proven fact that George Bush rigged the election in 2000 too. You can discount it all you want, but there's too much evidence to show that it happened. Anybody can see that that's what really happened. And it can happen again this year if it needs to.
My blinding hatred for George Bush comes from things he's done throughout his term. It didn't exist before. When the election was over and they gave it to him I just thought, "Oh well, we can survive 4 years of a Republican president I suppose". Then time after time again he screwed up, and put his family above the rest of the world.
Hail to the thief.
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[quote by=Biscuit_Power link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=100 date=1095784240]Talking about different points of view... I'm not even 100% sure that Bush had nothing to do with 9-11... Yeah that's right... I'm probably going way too far for some of you, but I think there is a possibility that George W. Bush was behind 9-11... Just look at the facts.
1) Bush never made a big deal of sending people to their death by the dozens. He set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history, and he didn't hesitate to start an unjust war. Furthermore he authorized the use of cluster bombs and daisy cutters in populated areas of Iraq, which killed about 10.000 (!!!) innocent civilians. That's about 3 times as many people as died in New York... He didn't hesitate to kill 10.000 Iraqi civilians, so it's not that strange to think he could've killed 3.000 innocent American civilians as wel... And that's not all: Bush is a religious fanatic that believes in the apocalypse and that ONLY Evangelical Christians are eligible for the afterlife anyway (true fact!).
2) 9-11 Practically gave Dubya super powers. You could've expected that after 9-11, all hell would break loose and that people in their blind anger and fear would let their leader get away with just about anything.
3) During the first few days after 9-11, no one was allowed to leave the US... Except for several relatives of Osama Bin Laden that lived in the US! Nobody even bothered to ask them any questions... (again, not a rumor but a fact).
4) The Bush and Bin Laden families go way back... Bush sr. and the Bin Laden family were business partners in the 80's (yet another fact).
[/quote]
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You forget that almost everything the president does is monitored. The president isn't some all mighty guy who can do anything he wants.
And no the hatred comment was not directed at you.
See how fast you are to spring to conclusions.... (insert dramatic music here)
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[quote by=strutter84 link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=101 date=1095791876]And someday it will be a proven fact that George Bush rigged the election in 2000 too.
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[quote by=Ssarah link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=102 date=1095791939]
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
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War, children, is just a shot away
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1095101219,s=105 date=1095809741]War, children, is just a shot away[/quote]
Exxxxxxxxxcelent!
(thumbsup)