DM's Beatles forums
Other forums => Current Affairs => Topic started by: Bobber on March 04, 2014, 10:58:09 AM
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So, what are your thoughts on this explosive situation? Especially curious how the Russians on the forum think about this.
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I see.
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Sorry Bobber. I can only view this through the prism of the Beatles.
The Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the west behind.
Perhaps more prescient than anyone could guess.
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I think what Russia are doing is perfectly understandable given the way the old president was ousted.
It's almost like a communist movement in Canada overthrowing their premier and saying that they would be seeking closer ties with other communist nations.
Would America just sit there and go....ok no problem. Go ahead. ?
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It was coup d'etat. And now there is a huge information warfare.
In two words, East of Ukraine is mostly Russian. Crimea is 60% Russian, and Sevastopol is 80% Russian city. It is hardly to hear there Ukranian. Read history of Crimea, it is very interesting, and you will anderstand that this peninsula was never Ukranian.
My wife is from Donetsk. It is East of Ukraine. Though she is now a citizen of Russia, her parents and brother's family are Ukrainians. They are as most of the people in the East of Ukraine speak Russian and don't speak Ukrainian. The East of Ukraine is tightly connected with Russia by family ties, by work and business, by language. My father in law, for example, is Russian; he is from Rostov-on-Done, but he is a citizen of Ukraine. All my Ukrainian relatives support Russia, because they are afraid of nationalists and now in Ukraine bandits in power.
I can write a lot about it. And I'll do it, maybe, tomorrow :)
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I don't stop to wonder how bandits who seized power in Kiev and West of Urkaine can write laws and command Ukraine. Nonsense.
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Here in the US, we're getting the spin on this our administration wants us to hear. But my grandparents immigrated here from the Ukraine so I know the history. I think Dmitry has nailed it and I'm looking forward to his further reports.
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Yesterday in Donetsk, EuroMaidans were brought to knees and were sent home in a paddy:
Евромайдановцев в Донецке поставили на колени и отправили домой в автозаках. 05.05.2014 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjvhi7oNbfQ#ws)
Locals against EuroMaidans. EuroMaidans are people who stood against Ukraine government, who are promoting the idea that Ukraine must be a part of Europe, they are West Ukranians. Locals are Russian speaking people who live in East Ukraine, the majority of East part of the country. On video you hear locals shout: "Police is with people!", "Guys, don't touch the police!", "Russia! Russia!", "Donbass! Donbass! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbass)", "Berkut! Berkut! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkut_(Ukraine))", "Европу в жопу!" (sorry for this, my Europian friends, it's just what they shout). Locals support Berkut, special police, which stood against opposition in Kiev.
Very inreresting video where you can see people's mood in the east.
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Ukraine was always been divided into two parts: East and West. East gravitates to Russia, West – to Europe. And in Parliament there were different political parties, including nationalist one, due to which Russian language in Ukraine was almost banned to use. So can you imagine this? You, and almost all in your town and in your region (80%) speak your language, write, watch movies in theaters, watch TV, listen to the radio, read papers, restaurant menus, signboards, documentation and documents, textbooks in schools and universities, all around you is on your own language, and one day all of this became in language you don’t know. Not in one day, of course, but in over a short period of time. It smells like genocide. Nationalism is only a one side of the colorful story.
All Ukrainians don’t like Yanukovich, who did many mistakes and let the situation get out of control. In 2013 people were peacefully protesting in Kiev against authority, but in 2014 others joined, including nationalists and bandits. And the riots began. I don’t know what all those people wanted but now some of them are disappointed with leaders who seized power in Kiev and West. As far as I know Europe had plans on Ukraine, but these plans were foiled. I’m sure it is all connected with each other. For example, one of the opposition leaders Klichko have ties with Germany.
To be continued...
Have you any questions? What your thoughts on what is happening nowadays in Ukraine? What your local media say about it?
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In the West it's presented as the Russians not letting the Ukraine people decide on their future.
I think to avoid civil war maybe Ukraine should be divided into two countries : Crimea in the Russian Federation and West Ukraine in the European Union.
Do you think this is feasible?
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Apparently Putin is saying theyre not Russian troops ???
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I think to avoid civil war maybe Ukraine should be divided into two countries : Crimea in the Russian Federation and West Ukraine in the European Union.
That would be a very good solution.
Do you think this is feasible?
A good question for Dmitry to answer.
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Ukraine people are half Ukranians half Russians. They all are citizens of Ukraine and many of them just can't stand each other. I think too that Ukraine should be divided into two countries. They could live together but it seems they don't want it. Recently most people of Crimea said they do not want to be a part of Urkaine.
This map shows using of languages:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/f/f6/Languages_in_Ukraine.PNG)
Dark green - Russian, Yellow - Ukranian, Light green - equally. So if separation is possible, it isn't only Crimea not to be a part of Ukraine.
As about russian troops in Crimea. Yes, Putin is saying there is no troops. Some people is saying there is troops. I do not believe anyone because I do not see any evidences. There are military bases in Crimea, and there is an agreement with Ukraine that there could be no more than 25000 Russian troops in Crimea. I think there are some troops within bases. Some people say that Russians blocked airports and Urkanian's military parts. But why it is Russians? They do not have any decorations on their uniforms. Two days ago my wife called her friend in Yalta, Crimea. He said that there are Russian troops. But how did he know that these troops are Russians I don't know. Did he saw their passports or any identification marks? In Crimea there are people's squad who are for Russians, maybe they are "russian troops". I don't know.
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Nice show. Have you seen it?
The Alex Jones Show - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 (Full Show): Lyndon Larouche, Joseph Farah
The Alex Jones Show - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 (Full Show): Lyndon Larouche, Joseph Farah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asmi8DEiu8g#ws)
You may be interested in what Lyndon Larouche said about a week ago (1h 9m).
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I tend to respect the idea that national borders are inviolable.
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Crimea is currently Ukrainian ground. Russian army should not interfere in there.
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Agree, Cor. I don't think that Russian army or any other should interfere.
But is there, in Crimea, Russian army? That is the question.
By the way, I don't think also that NATO army should interfere too. You know that NATO is a military alliance of almost 30 countries, and NATO interfered in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Libya and Irak. I just wonder why America and Europe leaders talk now that Russia is misbehaving. Hypocrisy.
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I have no doubt that the Russian army is present in Crimea. Independent sources confirm this.
Hypocrisy maybe. Though I think that it was not the NATO but the UN interfering in Bosnia a.o.
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No one persuaded me yet that Russian army is in Crimea. I really wish someone could. My wife resents the fact that I do not believe that Russian army is in Crimea. But I can't agree or disagree, I just don't know.
In global way what's happening now? It is an opposition between NATO and Russia. Russia just can't let NATO to have an influence in Ukraine, to have military installations there. Russia is already almost surrounded.
News: A press conference of Ukraine president Yanukovich just finished in Roston-on-Don, Russia. He is a legitimate president still, but America and Europe say that fact that some people captured the power and kicked away the president is OK.
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You won't know for sure until you go there yourself and go and count the amounts of Russians troops in Crimea. But then, if that is the way you think, you won't believe that The Beatles existed, only because you didn't see them yourself.
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So once again goverments, including my own, put a spin on the news for their own political purposes.
Cor, I think you're getting a clearer picture as to what's going on.
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You won't know for sure until you go there yourself and go and count the amounts of Russians troops in Crimea. But then, if that is the way you think, you won't believe that The Beatles existed, only because you didn't see them yourself.
It looks like we talk about God or that the Earth is round.
Everybody talks about troops but nobody saw them roll:)
I mean at least there are no any materials, when you see them and say, yes, it is russians.
Cor, what are independent sources? I just wonder.
In the end, it doesn't matter. If there is no troops then they could be there. And it doesn't matter that you or me think that national borders are inviolable, because our leaders don't think so. And every 5-10 years they make wars.
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What is Criema sutuation now?
Crimea government does not recognize the new Ukranian government, which was not elected by the people of Ukraine. Crimea declared independence yesterday. On the 16th of March there will be a referendum, and people will vote if they want to be a part of Russia. Many people of Crimea think they will live better in Russian, because Russian Economy is much better then Ukranian. Maybe they will. But Crimea is an economic burden. And Russian people will pay for Crimea as we are already paying for Olympic Games: ruble fell, all prices rose :( And I don't imagine how Crimea will live without energy and fresh water which are supplied from the Ukraine territory.
My wife with parrents planned to leave for Crimea for a month with my sin, but it seems they couldn't because of tense in Crimea :'(
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Reuters is commonly known as an independent press agency.
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Thomson family is independent from what? I think to be independent you should live in space, maybe. I read Reuters, but again in one case they wrote under a picture of troops `Armed men, believed to be Russian servicemen', in article they wrote `Russian troops have seized control of the Black Sea peninsula, where separatists have taken over the provincial government and are preparing for Sunday's referendum, which the West calls illegal.' Everyone chooses for themselves whom to believe.
Latest news:
A Ukrainian aircraft will carry out an observation flight over Russia upon Kyiv's request, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov said.
"On March 11 Ukraine submitted the request to hold an emergency observation flight over Russia. Such a mission is being requested for the first time in the framework of the Open Skies Treaty signed in 1992. And even though we have no obligations to take the Ukrainian jet, we have decided to allow the observation group to carry out such a flight," Antonov told reporters on Wednesday.
"We expect that our neighbors will make sure that the Russian Armed Forces are conducting no military activities threatening Ukraine's security at its border," the deputy minister said.
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/195622.html (http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/195622.html)
Norwegian inspectors will make an observation flight over Russia within the framework of the Treaty on Open Skies from March 12 to March 15, the Defence Ministry’s press service told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/690751 (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/690751)
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Bad news for Ukranian people:
The Verkhovna Rada, Ukraine's parliament, has confirmed the country's course towards integration into the European Union and approved initial steps in this direction.
The parliament also authorized Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatseniuk to sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement on behalf of Ukraine as soon as possible.
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/195698.html (http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/195698.html)
This EU-Ukraine Association Agreement will do no good for the country because of unfavorable conditions. It would be interesting to read this post in the next year, to look back and to see what's happening :)
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Bad news for Ukranian people:
[url]http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/195698.html[/url] ([url]http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/195698.html[/url])
This EU-Ukraine Association Agreement will do no good for the country because of unfavorable conditions. It would be interesting to read this post in the next year, to look back and to see what's happening :)
Maybe it's better news than having to deal with the ideas of Putin/Medvedev.
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In my morning paper Axionov, the probable Prime Minister of Russian Crimea, is compared to Al Capone !
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In Moscow people stood against War in Ukraine and here is what happend next:
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/prosto_vova/25150375/1195831/1195831_900.jpg)
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/prosto_vova/25150375/1196570/1196570_900.jpg)
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/prosto_vova/25150375/1200813/1200813_900.jpg)
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/prosto_vova/25150375/1201886/1201886_900.jpg)
More pics: http://mon-montblanc.livejournal.com/3514676.html (http://mon-montblanc.livejournal.com/3514676.html)
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To avoid war maybe Ukraine could sell Crimea to Russia.
Ukraine would be richer and Russia would avoid economic sanctions and keep its naval base.
Here's an interesting map that shows frontiers can change a lot over time.
http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/ (http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/)
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I don't know. I don't know how Ukraine can sell Crimea to Russia if Power in Ukraine was seized illegally. Ukraine people didn't choose Arseniy Yatsenyuk as a prime minister. Imagine there was a riot in Paris, François Hollande left France, and some group of people decide to rule the France and to sell it's part.
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Wake up. Janukovitch was responsible for the dead of too many people. It was pretty obvious that a majority of people, at least in the Western part of the country, wanted him to go. It would be better if new elections were held right now, not just about and in Crimea.
Speaking of illegally seized power... do you think that Russia's current leaders were elected an a fully legal way?
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I don't know. I don't know how Ukraine can sell Crimea to Russia if Power in Ukraine was seized illegally. Ukraine people didn't choose Arseniy Yatsenyuk as a prime minister. Imagine there was a riot in Paris, François Hollande left France, and some group of people decide to rule the France and to sell it's part.
If there was another May '68 (riots and shutdowns throughout France) and Hollande left the country (as did De Gaulle) there would be at the very least new national elections and some compromise to satisfy the unrest. If not there'd be a change of Republic (we're up to Republic N° 5 at the moment). And if that wasn't enough there would be a revolution.
I imagine that killing the king in France and the tsar in Russia was considered illegal when it happened !
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Crimea in now belong to Russia. Putin signed and most russians supported him. Though I believe that Crimea is russian I feel myself as I am a companion in crime, I don't like how it happend and I don't believe Putin. I will write more tomorrow, because I'm something like out of my mind now.
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I'm sorry things are so difficult right now Dmitry.
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Yeah, don't be too hard on yourself Dmitry.
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Im praying there is no 'ethnic cleansing' like there was in what was Yugoslavia
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Putin: Crimea similar to Kosovo, West is rewriting its own rule book (FULL SPEECH) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDLwu4E35us#ws)
In Sevastopol:
Тысячи севастопольцев на площади П.С. Нахимова слушали обращение своего Президента (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9V011g4_U0#ws)
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We have already an article in Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_crisis)
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I was wondering why Putin needs Crimea right now. I think the answer is South Stream (a gas pipeline to transport Russian natural gas through the Black Sea to Bulgaria and further to Greece, Italy and Austria)
(http://takie.org/_nw/94/31202713.jpg)
I just can't stand histeria around Crimea. Almost all my friends and people I know support Putin now, but before many cursed and hated it. People went blind :-\
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During the days of the Sovjet Union, Russians moved everywhere. Russians went to Armenia, Latvia, Estonia, Tadjikistan, everywhere. Today, that is the main reason Russia is claiming parts of other countries.
Imagine the Chinese in Chinatowns across the world claiming to be a part of China...
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During the days of the Sovjet Union, Russians moved everywhere. Russians went to Armenia, Latvia, Estonia, Tadjikistan, everywhere. Today, that is the main reason Russia is claiming parts of other countries.
Imagine the Chinese in Chinatowns across the world claiming to be a part of China...
Crimea was part of Russia from 1783 onwards.
So it was Russian a very long time before the Soviet Union even existed !
Since it has a frontier with the Russian Federation and most of its people speak Russian then it seems logical that it may aspire to being part of modern-day Russia.
Chinatowns are relatively small enclaves of Chinese speaking people in major foreign cities who have probably no desire whatsoever to live in China so the comparison seems rather inappropriate.
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What about Alaska to return back to Russia? ;D
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/alaska-back-russia/SFG1ppfN
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/1860-russian-america.jpg)
I was thinking of this myself. This is a map from 1860.
Russians were there first and it's a lot nearer Russia than the US.
But nobody complained when it was sold.
That's why I say an economic solution to the Crimea crisis could be found.
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What about Alaska to return back to Russia? ;D
[url]https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/alaska-back-russia/SFG1ppfN[/url]
3,600 people have already signed the petition. Maybe they want Oksana to slap stickers on their cars too. ;D
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Crimea in now belong to Russia. Putin signed and most russians supported him. Though I believe that Crimea is russian I feel myself as I am a companion in crime, I don't like how it happend and I don't believe Putin. I will write more tomorrow, because I'm something like out of my mind now.
(http://robertamsterdam.com/dev3/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Stalin-Putin.jpg)
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The Internationale ( In Russian ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8EMx7Y16Vo#ws)
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Oksana in Alaska?! ha2ha
On the Red Square
Только в ебало могу дать - с английскими субтитрами (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZkou1E9NQw#)
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The most popular Prosecutor ;D
Natalia Poklonskaya - the Prosecutor General of the Republic of Crimea:
(http://fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/natalia-002-485x370.jpg)(http://www.clandestinoweb.com/wp-content/uploads/NataliaPoklonskaya.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Natalia_Poklonskaya_by_BonKiru.jpg/192px-Natalia_Poklonskaya_by_BonKiru.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Natalia_Poklonskaya_fan-art_by_Itachi_Kanade.jpg/320px-Natalia_Poklonskaya_fan-art_by_Itachi_Kanade.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalia_Poklonskaya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalia_Poklonskaya)
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A Ukraine girl who has left the West behind !
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Indeed ha2ha
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She looks like trouble.
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Maybe. She's very strict!
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Оксана имеет намного более хороший голос.
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Оксана имеет намного более хороший голос.
In other words: У Оксаны намного лучше голос.
or even: У Оксаны намного приятнее голос.
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You know what I mean. ;)
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Sure!
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;D
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She looks like trouble.
Today she became a Senior Counsellor of Justice.
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Talking about the current government in Ukraine. It is becoming more obvious, that much people do not support it, do not welcome it and do not approve it's activity. Again there are riots in Eastern Ukraine, people want referendum to be held. Local officials in city of Donetsk, Kharkiv, Luhansk, and other east parts of the country were appointed by Batkivshchyna, a political party which now has the power, and whose members occupy all key positions in government. Other political parties were displaced during last month.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26919928 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26919928)
6 04 2014 Харьков На 30 секунде взрыв Видео Николая Харьковского (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtlz7Yd3TiI#)
http://www.reuters.com/video/2014/04/07/pro-russia-protesters-seize-ukraine-buil?videoId=305197515&videoChannel=117760 (http://www.reuters.com/video/2014/04/07/pro-russia-protesters-seize-ukraine-buil?videoId=305197515&videoChannel=117760)
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As far as I understand Ukranian government, when a street against Yanukovych, this is a movement of the national soul, and when the street against the revolutionary government - this is a diversion, and the machinations of the counter-revolution Russia.
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Just watched live broadcasting from Donetsk. Deputies of the Donetsk Regional Council announced the creation of the People's Republic of Donetsk. They chanted "Putin!", "Gubarev!". Gubarev (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev) is a pro-Russian political figure in Ukraine. Deputies also asks help from Russia.
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Ukranian government send tanks from Kiev to Donetsk >:(
Доброполье, Донецкая обл, 9.04.2014 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQRzfetndJg#)
Citizens of Kharkiv didn't allow Special forces from Kiev to leave the bus
Харьковчане дали отпор спецназу на улице Чернышевского. Харьков 08.04.2014 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og6xCPLCqAs#ws)
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Citizens of Kharkiv didn't allow Special forces from Kiev to leave the bus
How do you know those people are citizens of Kharkiv and not Russian agents.
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Are you joking, Cor? Of course I don't know. Maybe it isn't Kharkiv, and maybe the bus is with tourists, and maybe it was several years ago or maybe it will be next year. Does it matter? I have no evidence, I just believe. I believe basing on some tv news and newspapers (not only Russians), interviews and videos, people I know including people in Ukraine. I believe it and I post it here. But I don't ask everybody to believe it too.
I wonder are Europeans really believe that Russian agents are around :)
By the way, in case if there are Russian agents, what Russia do it for?
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Are you joking, Cor? Of course I don't know. Maybe it isn't Kharkiv, and maybe the bus is with tourists, and maybe it was several years ago or maybe it will be next year. Does it matter? I have no evidence, I just believe. I believe basing on some tv news and newspapers (not only Russians), interviews and videos, people I know including people in Ukraine. I believe it and I post it here. But I don't ask everybody to believe it too.
I wonder are Europeans really believe that Russian agents are around :)
By the way, in case if there are Russian agents, what Russia do it for?
I am not joking. There's a lot of Western politicians who think that Russian agents are active in Ukraine to set people up to demonstrate and all that, presenting Eastern Ukraine as a region that wants to join Russia.
What Russia do it for? Now you are joking, right?
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There are also other politicians who think that USA and Europe are helping new Ukrainian government to sell out Ukraine. I wish more people understood that it is an initiative of citizens of the country to strike against the new government and its unpopular initiatives. There is no other way to survive. Standard of living was low, and now it is even lower. Does any western country help Ukraine with anything except words? Promises with appalling conditions? You know terms of cooperation with EU? One of them is increasing the retirement age. The other - cost of gas for population. In May the cost of natural gas for the population increases by 48-73%. My old father- and mother-in-law who live in Donetsk has a pension $100 each. And they give away almost all to pay for gas. Mother-in-law lives in Moscow half of the year and works on the market, sells clothes to earn for living, because there is now work in Donetsk for her and for other people who now protests. Right now mother-in-law of my wife’s brother is on the main square in Donetsk, and she believe that Ukraine needs at least federalization. Unfortunatelly, new government do not hear east people.
Russia do not need East of Ukraine to be a part of Russia. And it will not be. I'm sure. Although, I could be wrong. We'll see.
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It was on the 1st of December, 2013, in Kiev:
Столкновения оппозиционеров и спецназа Украины в Киеве (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IRowUvF_9o#ws)
Policemen were without weapons because Yanukovych didn't let it,
now new government sends tanks to disperse people.
This morning in Luhansk and Donetsk:
10.04.2014 Протестное утро в Луганске (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r2X0Apd5yI#ws)
10.04.2014 Протестное утро в Донецке (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75DpdlKOO7Y#ws)
Who is right?
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Putin's letter to European leaders on Ukraine's gas debt
Very interesting: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/10/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-gas-letter-idUSBREA391DB20140410 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/10/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-gas-letter-idUSBREA391DB20140410)
...during the past four years Russia has been subsidizing Ukraine's economy by offering slashed natural gas prices worth 35.4 billion US dollars. In addition, in December 2013, Russia granted Ukraine a loan of 3 billion US dollars. These very significant sums were directed towards maintaining the stability and creditability of the Ukrainian economy and preservation of jobs. No other country provided such support except Russia.
What about the European partners? Instead of offering Ukraine real support, there is talk about a declaration of intent. There are only promises that are not backed up by any real actions. The European Union is using Ukraine's economy as a source of raw foodstuffs, metal and mineral resources, and at the same time, as a market for selling its highly-processed ready-made commodities (machine engineering and chemicals), thereby creating a deficit in Ukraine's trade balance amounting to more than 10 billion US dollars. This comes to almost two-thirds of Ukraine's overall deficit for 2013.
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Several hundred activists from nationalist political party Right Sector lined up in columns, came to the parliament building in Kiev and demanded the resignation of Rada appointed Acting President Alexander Turchinov and Interior Minister Arsen Avakov.
I wonder, will western press write about it.
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How do you like it? A new government is using the Army against its own people, who hold meetings and demand federalization. And Right Sector demand weapons from government to wipe out all who're against the government. USA says it's OK, it's normal. Europe is watching the show. I hope all who are involved in killing people will be punished.
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Hundreds of Kramatorsk's residents camped near the local airport, which was occupied by Ukrainian military on April 16.
Жители Краматорска разбили лагерь около атакованного аэродрома (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_4a40KMSsM#ws)
Protesters in eastern Ukraine's city of Slavyansk, one of the main focal points of resistance to Kiev, are preparing to face the crackdown. Armoured vehicles are converging on the city and locals say all roads have been sealed off.
East Ukrainian people stand up for their rights amid Kiev's military crackdown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJxQ3xt4m0I#ws)
Ukrainian armoured vehicle crews have switched sides, joining the anti-government protesters in the East. Activists place a Russian flag on one of them.
Switching Sides: Ukrainian armored unit joins anti-govt protesters in east (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3sBOpziyyc#ws)
Video: Armored personnel carriers enter east Ukrainian cities (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdgQCZ3UxR4#ws)
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One of the examples of Information warfare.
KIEV, Ukraine — For two weeks, the mysteriously well-armed, professional gunmen known as “green men” have seized Ukrainian government sites in town after town, igniting a brush fire of separatist unrest across eastern Ukraine. Strenuous denials from the Kremlin have closely followed each accusation by Ukrainian officials that the world was witnessing a stealthy invasion by Russian forces.
Now, photographs and descriptions from eastern Ukraine endorsed by the Obama administration on Sunday suggest that many of the green men are indeed Russian military and intelligence forces — equipped in the same fashion as Russian special operations troops involved in annexing the Crimea region in February. Some of the men photographed in Ukraine have been identified in other photos clearly taken among Russian troops in other settings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/world/europe/photos-link-masked-men-in-east-ukraine-to-russia.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/world/europe/photos-link-masked-men-in-east-ukraine-to-russia.html)
WASHINGTON — A collection of photographs that Ukraine says shows the presence of Russian forces in the eastern part of the country, and which the United States cited as evidence of Russian involvement, has come under scrutiny.
The photographs were submitted by Ukraine last week to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, an organization in Vienna that has been monitoring the situation in Ukraine.
Some of the photographs were also provided by American officials to Secretary of State John Kerry so he could show them when he met in Geneva last Thursday with his counterparts from the European Union, Russia and Ukraine.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/world/europe/scrutiny-over-photos-said-to-tie-russia-units-to-ukraine.html?ref=world&_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/world/europe/scrutiny-over-photos-said-to-tie-russia-units-to-ukraine.html?ref=world&_r=1)
Two days after the New York Times led its editions with a one-sided article about photos supposedly proving that Russian special forces were behind the popular uprisings in eastern Ukraine, the Times published what you might call a modified, limited retraction.
...
In the old days of journalism, we used to apply the scrutiny before we published a story on the front page or on any other page, especially if it had implications toward war or peace, whether people would live or die. However, in this case – fitting with the anti-Russian bias that has pervaded the mainstream U.S. press corps – the scrutiny was set aside long enough for this powerful propaganda theme to be put in play and to sweep across the media landscape.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/04/23/nyt-retracts-russian-photo-scoop/ (http://consortiumnews.com/2014/04/23/nyt-retracts-russian-photo-scoop/)
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Dmitry, say Putin i have no lust to go to War. >:(
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I will, and you say the same Merkel, I don't have it too. Though, they both don't care :(
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I'm afraid of civil war in Ukraine! Mass media all around the World is making it's black business.
In Odessa some citizens, who are against new government, were burned alive by others. Fascists! They just herded people into the building and burned them using Molotov cocktails. It's terrible! Some men jumped from windows in order to survive. Who are survived were beaten.
Одесса дом профсоюзов ПОЛНОЕ ВИДЕО (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AMjLBIliw#)
люди на крыше Дом профсоюзов Одесса (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-YrTdt7RE#)
Одесса. Как поджигали Дом Профсоюзов (полное видео) 2 Мая (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je1neAJT4Hs#ws)
Several hours before:
DSCN3659 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBofgPq1EUs#ws)
DSCN3660 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SWRN7BntPQ#ws)
http://rt.com/news/156744-video-footage-odessa-fire/ (http://rt.com/news/156744-video-footage-odessa-fire/)
Wherever there are supporters of the new government, the city turns into a bloody trash ???
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Now the days of mourning in Odessa. Most people there are shocked by the incident.
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We're just beginning to get these reports here, Dmitry.
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I hope there will be less disinformation, because I believe that most of the troubles because of mass media, which work for governments. I read Russian, Ukrainian, American and European news and I see very different veiws on each incident and event.
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The Jewish community of Odessa is prepared for mass evacuation, should violence re-erupt in the Ukrainian city and threaten to spill over them. Anti-Semitism is a painful issue in Ukraine, with radical nationalism on the rise.
Odessa witnessed several instances of clashes between anti-government and pro-government activists in the past weeks. They culminated in the deaths on Friday of dozens of opponents of the new authorities, most of whom burned to death in a building, besieged by armed radicals, who used Molotov cocktails and firearms in a crackdown on the protester’s camp.
The standoff so far hasn’t touched the Jewish community directly, Odessa Jewish leaders told the Israeli newspaper Jerusalem Post, but they are concerned that this may change. So they have contingency plans for evacuation, possibly out of the country.
http://rt.com/news/156792-odessa-jews-evacuation-plans/ (http://rt.com/news/156792-odessa-jews-evacuation-plans/)
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Numerous US agents are helping the coup-appointed government in Ukraine to “fight organized crime” in the south east of the country, the German newspaper Bild revealed.
According to the daily, the CIA and FBI are advising the government in Kiev on how to deal with the ‘fight against organized crime’ and stop the violence in the country’s restive eastern regions.
The group also helps to investigate alleged financial crimes and is trying to trace the money, which was reportedly taken abroad during Viktor Yanokovich’s presidency, the newspaper said.
The head of the CIA, John Brennan, visited Kiev in mid-April and met with the acting Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk and first Vice-President Vitaly Yarema to discuss a safer way to transfer US information to Ukraine.
http://rt.com/news/156692-ukraine-cia-fbi-agents/ (http://rt.com/news/156692-ukraine-cia-fbi-agents/)
http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/nachrichtendienste-usa/dutzende-agenten-von-cia-und-fbi-beraten-kiew-35807724.bild.html (http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/nachrichtendienste-usa/dutzende-agenten-von-cia-und-fbi-beraten-kiew-35807724.bild.html)
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Thank Germans for march against 'Ukrainian fascists':
Germany: Hundreds rally in Berlin against 'Ukrainian fascists' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDWq9-SZL3E#noexternalembed-ws)
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Sloviansk is on the verge of a humanitarian disaster. Ukranian military surrounded the town and blocked roads.
West promised money to Ukraine. One of the clause is bringing the order to the east of Ukraine. So military are on hurry. But people in the East are against.
Dozens injured, fatalities on both sides as Kiev’s military op continues (http://rt.com/news/156824-eastern-ukraine-hostilities-shooting/)
Kiev intensifies military op in Eastern Ukraine LIVE UPDATES (http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/)
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Various press
Behind the Masks in Ukraine, Many Faces of Rebellion (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/world/europe/behind-the-masks-in-ukraine-many-faces-of-rebellion.html?hp) (New York Times, May 3, 2014)
Seule une Ukraine fédérale garantira la paix (http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2014/05/03/seule-une-ukraine-federale-garantira-la-paix_4411107_3232.html) (Le Monde, May 3, 2014)
Les pulsions isolationnistes des Etats-Unis et le manque de coordination de l’UE aggravent-ils la situation ? (http://www.atlantico.fr/decryptage/ukraine-pulsions-isolationnistes-etats-unis-et-manque-coordination-ue-aggravent-situation-jean-bernard-pinatel-1063291.html) (Atlantico, May 6, 2014)
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Ukrainian tanks on the outskirts of Slavyansk. In the coming days there will be a massacre, Ukranians will be killing each other.
Славянск. Танковая колонна хунты под городом (06.05.14) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDue2Yz4fBs#ws)
Sloviansk - 5.30pm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWBTNQg6kbw#ws)
Streams from Ukranian cities http://anti-maidan.com/?p=streams (http://anti-maidan.com/?p=streams)
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Dmitry, it's difficult for me to comprehend all that is going on but please know that I include this situation and all the people involved in my prayers. I'm sorry you have to deal with it all.
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Thank you, Kelley! I post it because I want people to know the other side of the conflict. I know American and European governments support Kiev in every way, but I also believe that many people understand that all isn't so simple, that there are many sides of every situation.
My relatives live in Donetsk. Sitting and waiting in obscurity. They buy food and medicines, because afraid of situation, when there will be no bread in stores as there is no food in Slovenks now.
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Press
Pour Kramatorsk, «l'Ukraine est morte» (http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2014/05/05/01003-20140505ARTFIG00296-pour-kramatorsk-l-ukraine-est-morte.php) (Le Figaro, May 5, 2014)
Could the Ukraine Crisis Spark a World War? (http://nationalinterest.org/feature/could-the-ukraine-crisis-spark-world-war-10387) (The National Interest, May 7, 2014)
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Dmitry, it's difficult for me to comprehend all that is going on but please know that I include this situation and all the people involved in my prayers. I'm sorry you have to deal with it all.
Yes, I agree. There's so much propaganda on both sides that it's difficult to know the truth but I think we all hope your family will be OK.
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Thank you! Not only family but just other people.
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Just saw Jürgen Elsässer and Germans. I'm very glad and happy to see that there are still many good people in the World.
What began with just over 100 participants a few weeks ago, drew on Easter Monday over 5000 people on the Potsdamer Platz in Berlin. The new edition of "Monday demonstrations" to the initiator Lars Märholz are the first impartial demonstrations in the Federal Republic.
In addition to Andreas Popp, Lars Märholz and Rico Albrecht spoke on Easter Monday also COMPACT chief editor Jürgen Elsässer to the thousands of people that are the lies unchallenged no longer willing to accept by the mainstream media.
In German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZdyKtsRfME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZdyKtsRfME)
In Russian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN3ctLPCxsY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN3ctLPCxsY)
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The residents of eastern Ukraine have long been closer to Russia than to the US and EU. In fact, that part of Ukraine had been a part of Russia. After February’s regime change, officials in the east announced that they would hold referenda to see whether the population wanted autonomy from the US-backed government in Kiev. The US demanded that Russian President Putin stop eastern Ukraine from voting on autonomy, and last week the Russian president did just that: he said that the vote should not be held as scheduled. The eastern Ukrainians ignored him and said they would hold the vote anyway. So much for the US claims that Russia controls the opposition in Ukraine.
What Does the US Government Want in Ukraine? (http://original.antiwar.com/paul/2014/05/11/what-does-the-us-government-want-in-ukraine/) (Antiwar.com. May 11, 2014)
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When, six months ago, western Ukrainians were camping out in squares in Kiev, protesting against the then president of Ukraine, Victor Yanukovich, and occupying government buildings, they were hailed by the Western media as revolutionaries, democrats, 1989-style heroes taking a stand for liberty and decency. But when eastern Ukranians have done likewise, setting up protest camps in Odessa and elsewhere to signal their disdain for the new government in Kiev, or marching to government buildings and sometimes storming them, they’ve found themselves denounced by Western observers as ‘rabble-rousers’, ‘hysterics’, ‘fanatics’, ‘vandals’. The Western coverage of Ukraine has given new meaning to the phrase double standards; it has taken the ‘journalism of attachment’ – the fashion among Western observers for childishly painting foreign conflicts as simplistic clashes between the pure and the wicked – to a new low.
Western double standards hit a new low (http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/ukraine-western-double-standards-hit-a-new-low/14989#.U3I52fl_vg-) ("Spiked", UK, May 7, 2014)
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South-East Ukraine: Crisis Diary (Unique Documentary Shot by Ordinary People) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvxgkIIIVio#ws)
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Donetsk, Lugansk proclaim independence from Kiev (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIa7vaCvKU#ws)
It seems, my relatives are not citizens of Ukraine now.
A think several other regions of Ukraine sooner or later will follow the example of Donetsk and Lugansk.
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My wife's brother in Donetsk works in Security Service of Ukraine. He said a couple days ago that it would be better to leave town and Ukraine before the 25th of May, Presidential election. There is no President in Ukraine now, but after 25th most likely a new president will declare a State of emergency, block East town and regions, cut off all communications, etc. My wife's brother is thinking about leaving town with his wife and two children. They'll move to Crimea. My father-and mother-in-law don't know what to do. They have a hous, two dogs, acquired property. My father-in-law already expressed a desire to fight against militaries from Kiev, to be a sniper; he has a good eye.
Meanwhile in Kramatorsk
Краматорск - Минометный Обстрел улиц города (18 мая 2014) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqTMK-Vm61I#ws) - you'll hear a man talk to his wife "Yulya, dress a child, quickly"
МИНОМЕТНЫЙ ОБСТРЕЛ Краматорска! Станкострой 18.05.2014 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-rK-0bWNms#ws)
Краматорск. Война в жилом массиве. В окна квартир влетают пули. 18 мая 2014 года. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_nXrngHgOQ#ws)
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In February she earned 3000 dollars, got tuberculosis and drug addiction. In winter she came from Donetsk to Kiev, and spent her time on the Independence Square (Maidan), every day she stood there for a month. And there she earned everything. Let's call her my distant relative's friend.
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Ukraine Crisis Today: Democracy caught on camera (this will never be shown on mainstream media) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKuDzXAgdf4#ws)
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But exactly what is your point?
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Love him or loathe him got to give Putin some credit. In the space of a few months he's wrested
strategically vital Crimea off Ukraine without a drop of Russian blood being spilt, sufficiently destabilised Ukraine itself to ensure that it's highly unlikely to join NATO anytime soon and signed a multi billion deal with China reducing his exposure to Western sanctions. And staged a very successful winter Olympics. That's some pretty impressive geo-political play there. Bush would be proud.
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Love him or loathe him got to give Putin some credit. In the space of a few months he's wrested
strategically vital Crimea off Ukraine without a drop of Russian blood being spilt, sufficiently destabilised Ukraine itself to ensure that it's highly unlikely to join NATO anytime soon and signed a multi billion deal with China reducing his exposure to Western sanctions. And staged a very successful winter Olympics. That's some pretty impressive geo-political play there. Bush would be proud.
That was quite easy for Putin to do, Kevin. He's taken advantage of a US government with poor leadership and weak foreign policy.
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Is not exploiting your opponents weaknesses a crucial part of the game? I think he played a very deft hand, acting with firmness and decision (Crimea) while applying exactly the right amount of pressure then withdrawing at exactly the right point (Ukraine). And then tying it all up with the deal with China at exactly the right time.
I think Prince Charles is right - there is the reek of Hitler and Czechoslovakia all over this. Hitler too detected his enemies weakness and acted with extreme deciveness. Had he stopped there his legacy would now be remembered in a much more positive light.
I don't begrudge Russia the Crimea. Nor do I blame them for doing everything short of war to prevent such a strategic neighbour as Ukraine falling under the influence of a belligerent opponent. Cuba anyone? Remember NATO was set up as an anti -Soviet alliance, and it is hard for Russia to understand why it still wants to expand deep into Eastern Europe. What else can it see but a threat to its national interest and security - a threat it appears to have meet with aplomb
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Do not believe politics, neither Putin, nor Obama, nor anyone else. Some familiars here, which I know long ago, believe Putin. I'm shocked, because I had a better opinion on them.
A difficult situation is now in Ukraine. East meet West, NATO versus Russia. Russians support East of Ukraine, America - West. My wife's familiar in Luhansk say that Russian military is trespassing border. Volunteers. Off the record. Also from Chechnya.
In Donetsk martial law now. Curfew.
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In city of Donetsk Ukranian military aircrafts are bombing and helicopters are firing. My relatives are afraid very much, because it is happening near them. When my wife's brother saw how they blowed up one of the building of the factory which is in 500 meters near them, he took his wife and two children to the parents, a one kilometer futher. Anyway, they all hear and see aircrafts flying above their heads. Militaries are bombing some territory of an airport. I don't know how to help them. The youngest child is only one month old.
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a lot of videos from Donetsk http://www.youtube.com/results?filters=hour&search_query=%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%BA&lclk=hour (http://www.youtube.com/results?filters=hour&search_query=%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%BA&lclk=hour)
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Wars happening because of resources.
Crimea - a gas pipline for Putin, East of Ukraine - shale gas for Biden.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/EIA_World_Shale_Gas_Map.png/800px-EIA_World_Shale_Gas_Map.png)
In 2010 Ukraine awarded exploration licences to Exxon Mobil and Shell, two Western energy firms. Shell will develope gas space in the Donetsk region. Also Biden’s Son and Polish Ex-President Sign on to Ukrainian Gas Company.
U.S. Vice President Joe Biden’s youngest son has joined the board of a gas company owned by an ally of Ukraine’s fugitive ex-president Viktor Yanukovych and a key European interlocutor with Kiev who was previously president of Poland.
The move raises questions about a potential conflict of interest for Joe Biden, who was the White House’s main interlocutor with Yanukovych while the latter was president and has since spearheaded Western efforts to wean Ukraine off Russian gas.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/bidens-son-polish-ex-president-quietly-sign-on-to-ukrainian (http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/bidens-son-polish-ex-president-quietly-sign-on-to-ukrainian)
I was wondering what's America's bussiness in Ukraine. Now I know. And if you say that new president of Ukraine was elected fairly by people of Ukraine, I say you are too naive.
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Various views on Ukranian crisis http://www.liveleak.com/c/Ukraine (http://www.liveleak.com/c/Ukraine)
People from all over the World write there.
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There is a lot of footage from Donetsk.
This is a road to a main airport. They call it The road of Death.
Listen! Do you hear deathly silence? :'(
I remember this place because I travelled there. I was flying to Donetsk by airplane also, among car and train.
Дорога СМЕРТИ до Аэропорта 500м Донецк Donetsk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6MYiCoz2o#ws)
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I wonder does your mass media write about all the horror things which are happening in the country. Damn this new government which kills it's own people!
An airstrike was in Luhansk yesterday, again a lot of civilian casualties.
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=luhansk+airstrike&filters=week&lclk=week (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=luhansk+airstrike&filters=week&lclk=week)
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I'd say the situation is very unclear. No idea who is killing who and what is being used for propaganda purposes.
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You're right, Cor. Very unclear! Some people say about airstrike that it was militias who shooted into the building and killed civilians, and the aircraft striked other place. But there is also a video when you see an aircraft shooting. I can't fully believe in each version. But the fact that there is a lot of civilian casualties in Donetsk and other towns. And that's the point. Most of the civilians can't leave towns :(
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Russian media (Life News, Russia Today) says that Ministry of Defence (Ukraine) recognized the airstrike in Luhansk with it's aftermath, but I don't believe it, because I can't find any official information. One my friend blindly believes russian media.
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I was wondering what's America's bussiness in Ukraine. Now I know. And if you say that new president of Ukraine was elected fairly by people of Ukraine, I say you are too naive.
And Obama meets with Poroshenko tomorrow.
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A master and a slave.
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02/06/2014 Луганск. Авиабомбардировка Сюжет телеканала CNN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBHoDADK5hs#)
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Sloviansk's population is a little bit greater than population of my Ukhta town. Both more than 100 thousands. But Sloviansk's population is constantly decreasing because the town is under fire day by day. Some people are dying, some are running away. West pretends civil war does not exist. I hope the war will end. Sooner better than later. People will have to rebuild town.
(http://img.gazeta.ru/files3/741/6065741/upload-RIAN_02446038.HR.ru-pic4_zoom-1000x1000-27621.jpg)
(http://img.gazeta.ru/files3/717/6065717/upload-RIAN_02446032.HR.ru-pic4_zoom-1000x1000-87340.jpg)
(http://img.gazeta.ru/files3/737/6065737/upload-RIAN_02446037.HR.ru-pic4_zoom-1000x1000-26367.jpg)
Siege of Sloviansk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sloviansk)
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My wife's brother took his wife and boys to the south, Berdyansk, and left them there. He's back in Donetsk, with his parents. Nobody knows what to do next. There is 80 kilometers between Sloviansk and Donetsk. They already shoot in the city of Donetsk, and bomb some important objects. In Sloviansk there is no water in many districts, no food in stores.
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RIP Эдуард Амвросиевич Шеварднадзе
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Plane crashes in Ukraine, 298 dead
Terrible!
My condolences! :'(
The Netherlands declared a day of national mourning for its 154 dead. Twenty-eight passengers were Malaysian, 27 Australian, 12 Indonesian, nine British, four German, four Belgian, three Filipino and one Canadian. All 15 crew were Malaysian. Nationalities of the others aboard were unclear.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-airplane-buk-idUSKBN0FN03H20140718 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-airplane-buk-idUSKBN0FN03H20140718)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-airplane-idUSKBN0FM22N20140718 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-airplane-idUSKBN0FM22N20140718)
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i see it comes the 7th World War is coming
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Plane crashes in Ukraine, 298 dead
Terrible!
My condolences! :'(
So tragic to lose all those souls. Among them were a reported 100 AIDS researchers. It boggles the mind.
AIDS researchers among dead in Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 crash were en route to Australian conference (http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/aids-researchers-dead-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-crash-article-1.1871450)
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How could somebody do this ?
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So tragic to lose all those souls. Among them were a reported 100 AIDS researchers. It boggles the mind.
It does boggle the mind. So terribly sad. :'(
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Before the Dutch plane was shot down the situation was already sad.
Maybe this will contribute to a solution being found.
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and the worst they plunder the baggage and try to withdraw money with credit cards.
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Among them were a reported 100 AIDS researchers. It boggles the mind.
That can't be true. The last few days I've read personal stories about several dozens of the 193 Dutch victims, and just one of them was an AIDS researcher.
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That can't be true. The last few days I've read personal stories about several dozens of the 193 Dutch victims, and just one of them was an AIDS researcher.
The article only mentions one Dutch researcher.
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Apparently 100 were heading to an AIDS conference in Melbourne. Whether they're all researchers though I don't know. Probably lots of public policy people in that group as well.
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The article only mentions one Dutch researcher.
If just one of the researchers was Dutch, than it's a fact that there weren't 100 AIDS researchers on board. 193 of all 283 passengers were Dutch.
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by the way
Russia's Defence Ministry on Monday challenged accusations pro-Russian rebels were to blame for shooting down a Malaysian airliner and asked the United States to produce satellite images to support its assertions.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-ministry-idUSKBN0FQ16C20140721 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-ministry-idUSKBN0FQ16C20140721)
In russian: http://lenta.ru/articles/2014/07/21/milversion/ (http://lenta.ru/articles/2014/07/21/milversion/) with pics.
Russia already have satellite images. Why NATO is silent?
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Good friends of a family we know via the school from our children were on that plane. Suddenly victims get a name and a face. Frans Timmermans, minister of Foreign Affairs put it diplomatically in an emotional speech. I can assure you Mr Putin's popularity is not very high over here.
Speech by the Dutch minister of Foreign Affairs in the UN Council.
Hier de tekst van mijn speech in de VN Veiligheidsraad:
Mr. President,
We are here to discuss a tragedy: the downing of a commercial airliner and the death of 298 innocent people. Men, women and a staggering number of children lost their lives, on their way to their holiday destinations, their homes, loved ones, their jobs or international obligations. Since Thursday I've been thinking how horrible the final moments of their lives must have been, when they knew the plane was going down. Did they lock hands with their loved ones, did they hold their children close to their hearts, did they look each other in the eyes, one final time, in a wordless goodbye? We will never know.
The demise of almost 200 of my compatriots has left a hole in the heart of the Dutch nation, has caused grief, anger and despair. Grief for the loss of loved ones, anger for the outrage of the downing of a civilian airplane and despair after witnessing the excruciatingly slow process of securing the crash site and recovering the remains of the victims.
It is fitting that this august Council should take position on this matter and I welcome the adoption of today’s resolution of the UNSC, which was tabled by Australia and which the Netherlands co-sponsored. I thank the countries which expressed support for it. I particularly want to thank Julie Bishop. Julie, we are in this together.
Mr President,
For the Netherlands, one priority clearly stands out above all others: bring the victims’ remains home. It is a matter of human decency that remains should be treated with respect and that recovering victim’s remains should be done without any delay.
The last couple of days we have received very disturbing reports of bodies being moved about and looted for their possessions. Just imagine for one minute, first to lose your husband and then to have to fear that some thug might steal his wedding ring from his remains. Just imagine that this could be your spouse. To my dying day I will not understand that it took so much time for the rescue workers to be allowed to do their difficult jobs and that human remains should be used in a despicable political game. I hope the world will not have to witness this again, any time in the future.
Images of children’s toys being tossed around, luggage being opened or passports being shown, are turning our grief and mourning into anger. We demand unimpeded access to the terrain. We demand respectful treatment of the crash site. We demand dignity for the victims and the multitudes who mourn their loss.
I call on the international community, on the Security Council, on anyone with influence on the situation on the ground: allow us to bring the victims’ remains home to their loved ones without any further delay. They deserve to be home.
As we are currently taking the lead in the forensic examination of the human remains, I pledge that the Netherlands will do its utmost to make sure that all remains will be identified and returned home, where ever that home may be.
We will work intensively with all countries and international organizations involved to make this happen.
Mr. President,
I also welcome the setting up of a proper investigation into the cause of the tragedy of MH17, as envisaged in today’s resolution. The Netherlands has agreed to assume a leading role in such an investigation, in close cooperation with the relevant countries, the United Nations and ICAO. I am fully aware of the great responsibility we now take upon ourselves and I give you my personal commitment that we will discharge this responsibility to the best of our abilities.
Once the investigation ascertains who was responsible for the downing of the flight MH17, accountability and justice must be pursued and delivered. We owe that to the victims, to justice, to humanity. I call on all relevant countries to provide full cooperation.
My country will not rest until all facts are known and justice is served.
I thank you, Mr. President.
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one word atom bomb over ukraine that`s it.
http://youtu.be/TK1VncZN-8g (http://youtu.be/TK1VncZN-8g)
ALL THE POWER AGAINST PUTIN ;sorry 5dp
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You obvouisly dont understand it.
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If just one of the researchers was Dutch, than it's a fact that there weren't 100 AIDS researchers on board. 193 of all 283 passengers were Dutch.
Okay, I see your point now. Sometimes numbers don't sink in right with me.
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Good friends of a family we know via the school from our children were on that plane. Suddenly victims get a name and a face.
193 victims is quite a lot for a country of 16 million people. Seems like almost everyone in The Netherlands had someone at least somewhat close to their social circle in that plane. An acquaintance of an acquaintance, someone who lived just a few miles away, someone who played for a soccer team that you played against, someone who was a frequent visitor of the same music festival you go to every year...
I've read a lot of acticles and blogs that people wrote about people who were on that plane. And it's a good reminder of the fact that a crowd of people is never just another bunch of anonymous faces. Each crowd of people is a collection of unique and very valuable individuals. People who are loved by many, who have accomplished amazing things, who have lots of interesting stories to tell, who inspire others, who have valuable talents... Of course that's something we already knew, but tragedies like these just make you realize it again.
It should at least make us realize that simply bombing the sh*t out of a place just because it gives you troubles should never even be considered a solution...
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Good friends of a family we know via the school from our children were on that plane. Suddenly victims get a name and a face. Frans Timmermans, minister of Foreign Affairs put it diplomatically in an emotional speech. I can assure you Mr Putin's popularity is not very high over here.
Speech by the Dutch minister of Foreign Affairs in the UN Council.
What a moving speech -- that really touched my heart. It is indeed difficult to conceive of such a large number of innocent people just....gone. I am always appreciative of the profiles the news media provides of the individuals -- as you and Joost mentioned, each with his or her own hopes, dreams, accomplishments, loved ones, etc. They help me, at least, process the tragedy more fully. So often numbers just get tossed casually around.
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one word atom bomb over ukraine that`s it.
thats 4 words roll:)
there was a guy on tv here who lost his 3 small kids, they were travelling back to Oz with theyre grandparents
how do you ever get over that ?
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there was a guy on tv here who lost his 3 small kids, they were travelling back to Oz with theyre grandparents
how do you ever get over that ?
Omigosh, I don't think I would ever get out of bed again after a such a crushing loss. I'd like to think I'd have the faith and strength to carry on, but I get panicky even thinking about losing one of my kids.
I was reading an article about a single mom who reassured her 10-year-old after he expressed worry about the plane crashing (i.e., this Malaysian Air flight that was shot down) ... I had to get offline after that.
My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones. :'(
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Good friends of a family we know via the school from our children were on that plane. Suddenly victims get a name and a face.
It's all so sad. I'll never forget how I felt after the TWA Flight 800 crash near Long Island, NY. It also happened on July 17th, 18 years ago. I was stunned when I learned that 16 of the victims came from the small town I lived in for a few years as a teenager. That was many years before the crash but when the personal stories came out I found that one of the victims was someone I remembered. Others were high school students, kids the same age as I was when I lived there. I know the way I felt after that is magnified many, many times over right now and it breaks my heart.
To my dying day I will not understand that it took so much time for the rescue workers to be allowed to do their difficult jobs and that human remains should be used in a despicable political game.
Indeed. It should be hard to imagine how something like this could get worse for these poor people but the events unfolding now are doing just that. It's inexcusable.
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The word "tragedy" has been used a number of times in the preceding posts. Words like "massacre," "murder" and "crime" are more suitable.
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The word "tragedy" has been used a number of times in the preceding posts. Words like "massacre," "murder" and "crime" are more suitable.
agreed
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They should kill 300 citizens of Europe and Australia to make people talk about "massacre, murder and crime". Thousands of refugees there are; hundreds of innocent people (amoung them children too) were killed in Ukraine during months, but you said little. I understand and don't blame. I only hope the war will end soon. Meanwhile the war came to Donetsk, where are my relatives. They can't sleep at night because sounds of gunfire and explosions are too loud. And they already lost some of their's familiars.
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They should kill 300 citizens of Europe and Australia to make people talk about "massacre, murder and crime". Thousands of refugees there are; hundreds of innocent people (amoung them children too) were killed in Ukraine during months, but you said little.
Of course you are 100% right. Unfortionately it just seems to be a very human thing.
"Did you hear about that bus full of tourists that drove off a cliff in Peru? Luckily there were no Dutch people in it!"
"It's very, very tragic that 4469 Americans had to die in that war in Iraq... Sorry, what? There were over half a million Iraqi casualties? Well, that's too bad, isn't it?"
"I think that country just might be a threat to our country. I say we should just drop an atom bomb on it and be done with it."
"I know there are thousands of orphans starving to death in other countries, but shouldn't we help the poor children in our own country first? I know this kid who's never even been on a holiday because his parents can't afford it, who not help him instead of some children that live thousands of miles away?"
I hear stuff like that all the time and obviously it's just wrong. But I guess that's just how most of us humans are built. I try not to think that way, but in this regard I guess that nobody's completely innocent...
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Right! a very human thing! One can't think about all people in the World. I don't care about children in Africa because I have my own problems. Though I can compassionate and be unhappy thinking about poor children.
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Though I can compassionate and be unhappy thinking about poor children.
I'm glad somebody's doing my share.
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Right! a very human thing! One can't think about all people in the World.
I think it's a survival mechanism really but some people take it too far. It can be hard to strike a balance.
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They should kill 300 citizens of Europe and Australia to make people talk about "massacre, murder and crime". Thousands of refugees there are; hundreds of innocent people (amoung them children too) were killed in Ukraine during months, but you said little. I understand and don't blame. I only hope the war will end soon. Meanwhile the war came to Donetsk, where are my relatives. They can't sleep at night because sounds of gunfire and explosions are too loud. And they already lost some of their's familiars.
Dmitry, I understand your frustration and I'm certain you were addressing us collectively but in case your remark was leveled at me, please look again at what I posted in this thread on 21 March 2014: Re: Ukraine - Crimea (http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=15750.msg310735#msg310735)
I likened Putin to Stalin. Under Joseph Stalin's rule the purges, executions, ethnic deportations, NKVD mass operations, gulags, Holodomor Famine (Ukrainian Genocide), and German population transfers accounted for the death of 20-30 million people. He was the biggest mass murderer of them all!
I'm of Ukrainian descent. My grandparents had the courage to immigrate to the United States in 1921. They took with them whatever they could carry in a suitcase. Had they not done that, they would have wound up names on some long-forgotten and misplaced list of those who perished during those awful years.
I certainly understand your feelings, Dmitry.
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Thanks Barry!
My wife's brother with family moved yesterday to the south, to Mariupol. My father- and mother-in-law are still in Donetsk thinking to venture to leave their house with acquired property.
It looks like Ukraninan army and foreign squads overpower rebels.
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I called my relatives yesterday via Skype. Mother-in-law was crying, she was shaking. All because rockets were flying above their heads.
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I can only imagine the terror your family is going through right now, Dmitry. I wish there was an easy and quick solution to the problems that region has repeatedly experienced.
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Talking about speech by the Dutch minister of Foreign Affairs in the UN Council.
You should know how people are dying when a depressurization of the cabin at an altitude of 10,000 meters happens. Low pressure and subzero temperature... People in cabin are dead long before the airplane falls. I will not write here details of what happend with human organisms, because on inertent there is a lot of information on it.
And by the way due to the fact that rebels quickly collected the dead bodies and put them in the fridge, there left something to send to Holland.
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I called my relatives yesterday via Skype. Mother-in-law was crying, she was shaking. All because rockets were flying above their heads.
That sounds terrifying, Dmitry; I'm so sorry. :'( Like Barry said, I wish there were a quick and easy solution to all of this.
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Galina Vasilyevna Starovoitova 20 November 1998
Sergei Yushenkov 17 April 2003
Yuri Petrovich Shchekochikhin 3 July 2003
Nikolai Mikhailovich Girenko 19 June 2004
Paul Klebnikov 9 July 2004
Andrei Andreyevich Kozlov 14 September 2006
Anna Stepanovna Politkovskaya 7 October 2006
Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko 23 November 2006
Stanislav Yuryevich Markelov 19 January 2009
Natalya Khusainovna Estemirova 15 July 2009
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Talking about speech by the Dutch minister of Foreign Affairs in the UN Council.
You should know how people are dying when a depressurization of the cabin at an altitude of 10,000 meters happens. Low pressure and subzero temperature... People in cabin are dead long before the airplane falls. I will not write here details of what happend with human organisms, because on inertent there is a lot of information on it.
And by the way due to the fact that rebels quickly collected the dead bodies and put them in the fridge, there left something to send to Holland.
Sorry we hurt your field mister. Should we be happy now?
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Why? Did I say something wrong, Cor? I've watched an interesting interview with a medical examiner, PhD. He recounted what's happening with people.
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Sarcasm maybe. But you make it sound as if it is not so bad after all and that the Dutch should be thankful.
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Cor, I never had a thought like this in my mind! I'm sorry; I was misunderstood. The one thought I had is that politics trifle with affections. This crash and deaths are awful. After I read details I myself is more afraid of flights. Thanks to my friend in NYC who helped me not to think much about my upcoming flight.
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eaceful Donetsk last November. Now there is a war :'( I was there. I miss it very much!
Поездка по ночному Донецку (3 ноября 2013 г.), часть 1 (6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uhc71MUSdY#ws)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uhc71MUSdY&list=PLH7Pa88qehpEpp1X6-istXqMDIWrRHc9D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uhc71MUSdY&list=PLH7Pa88qehpEpp1X6-istXqMDIWrRHc9D)
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Hi Dmitry
It must be hard for you at this time mate and I hope your family are ok
But can you tell me why wont Putin do more to help get the investigators to the crash site and find out who did this, I mean he obviously supplied the hardware but he should do more to find out who abused this weapon.
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I mean he obviously supplied the hardware but he should do more to find out who abused this weapon.
By supplying the weapon he abused the weapon.
Add 298 names to the list above.
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Thanks, Kev!
I'm a little bit surprised by your question, because as far as I can see, Russia did more than any other country to investigate. For example, in two days Russia's Defence Ministry presented evidence of possible involvement of Ukraine in the death of a passenger plane. The basis of the Russian position consists of data obtained by means of reconnaissance satellites and radars which are controlling the airspace in the conflict zone and the territory of eastern Ukraine. http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=15750.msg314338#msg314338 (http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=15750.msg314338#msg314338)
I don't know what other countries did. Maybe they really did nothing or could you please tell me what they did. I'm very wonder also why US did't show their pictures from space, and why Ukranian army do not let OSCE to work on the place where plane fall. What Russia can do on the Urkanian territory? Now England decipher the black box, we hope we'll know the truth.
What do you know about investigations?
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At last!
Experts start work at Ukraine crash site despite new fighting http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/01/us-ukraine-crisis-combat-idUSKBN0G138W20140801 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/01/us-ukraine-crisis-combat-idUSKBN0G138W20140801)
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Thanks, Kev!
I'm a little bit surprised by your question, because as far as I can see, Russia did more than any other country to investigate. For example, in two days Russia's Defence Ministry presented evidence of possible involvement of Ukraine in the death of a passenger plane. The basis of the Russian position consists of data obtained by means of reconnaissance satellites and radars which are controlling the airspace in the conflict zone and the territory of eastern Ukraine. [url]http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=15750.msg314338#msg314338[/url] ([url]http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=15750.msg314338#msg314338[/url])
I don't know what other countries did. Maybe they really did nothing or could you please tell me what they did. I'm very wonder also why US did't show their pictures from space, and why Ukranian army do not let OSCE to work on the place where plane fall. What Russia can do on the Urkanian territory? Now England decipher the black box, we hope we'll know the truth.
What do you know about investigations?
I dont know that much about the investigations but I do know that Russia faces heavy sanctions from the European union & the USA, this is going to cut deep into the Russian economy, all due as far as I can see/read to Putins intransigence over the whole matter of the Malaysian plane.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-west-must-prepare-for-a-wounded-putin-to-become-even-more-aggressive/2014/07/30/d80efcd8-1804-11e4-85b6-c1451e622637_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-west-must-prepare-for-a-wounded-putin-to-become-even-more-aggressive/2014/07/30/d80efcd8-1804-11e4-85b6-c1451e622637_story.html)
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At last!
Experts start work at Ukraine crash site...
After personal effects were looted and bodies left to decompose...
(http://i62.tinypic.com/b5qjw6.jpg)
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What Russia can do on the Urkanian territory? Now England decipher the black box, we hope we'll know the truth.
Russia is doing way too much on Ukrainian territory. And the black box won't tell us much I'm afraid.
Dmitry, I'm very sorry about the situation your relatives are in. But Putin is putting your country in a very difficult if not war-ish situation imho. Still it seems that 80% of the Russians has faith in their leaders. At the same time, dissidents are put under high pressure.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-west-must-prepare-for-a-wounded-putin-to-become-even-more-aggressive/2014/07/30/d80efcd8-1804-11e4-85b6-c1451e622637_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-west-must-prepare-for-a-wounded-putin-to-become-even-more-aggressive/2014/07/30/d80efcd8-1804-11e4-85b6-c1451e622637_story.html)
[/quote]
Good headline "The West must prepare for a wounded Putin to become even more aggressive". Indeed.
I really don't like Putin and do not support most things he do. I'm not sure that 80% of russians support him, maybe 60% or less. I don't know all the truth, but things that are happening in Russia are depressing me. I want to move to a village away from the civilisation and do not think about politics and economics, just to live and have fun :)
Thanks, Cor! On saturday my relatives left Donetsk by car. Hope they are ok, yet I don't know much where are they.
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I really don't like Putin and do not support most things he do. I'm not sure that 80% of russians support him, maybe 60% or less. I don't know all the truth, but things that are happening in Russia are depressing me. I want to move to a village away from the civilisation and do not think about politics and economics, just to live and have fun :)
Вы начинает звучать как Доктор Живаго...
Strelnikov and Zhivago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f-jzGNpUmo#)
Strelnikov: And what will you do with your wife and child in Varykino?
Zhivago: Just live!
;)
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On saturday my relatives left Donetsk by car. Hope they are ok, yet I don't know much where are they.
I'm happy they're out of Donetsk, Dmitry.
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Thanks, Barry! A couple of minutes ago I got a news from them, they crossed Russian border. Now they are safe.
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Thanks, Barry! A couple of minutes ago I got a news from them, they crossed Russian border. Now they are safe.
very good mate :)
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Indeed. Thanks!
It comes so that my parents moved to the Black Sea and now they are somewhere near my father- and mother-in-law. But it is a different story for a different topic ;D
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Dimitry leave quickly your home is safe for you
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About 730,000 Ukrainians have left the country for Russia this year, the European head of the United Nations agency for refugees said on Tuesday, citing data compiled by Russia.
The figure, which the UNHCR said it had assessed as reliable, excluded people who would normally have crossed the border for trade or tourism purposes, the agency's European director Vincent Cochetel told a news briefing.
"The 730,000, it's the 'plus' compared to other years," he said. "...Sometimes they just walk across the border, they come with plastic bags. Many of them are really destitute."
The figure suggests this year's exodus from Ukraine is bigger than previously thought.
A further 117,000 were displaced inside Ukraine, a number that was growing by about 1,200 per day, he said.
The UNHCR did not break down its headline figure by ethnic group, though Cochetel said a "wind of panic" was driving civilians away as the Ukrainian army closes in on major eastern cities held by separatist forces.
Much of Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine has since April been a battleground between government troops and pro-Russian separatists, many of whom are ethnic Russians.
Ukrainian forces say they have been making steady gains and have virtually encircled the separatists' second-largest stronghold of Luhansk while rebels have declared a state of siege in Donetsk, the largest city they hold.
Russia's Migration Service recently said it had this year received applications from around 160,000 Ukrainian citizens. The UNHCR's Cochetel said the 730,000 figure included those who had asked Russia for protection.
The Donetsk and Luhansk regions - the easternmost in Ukraine - had a combined population of some 6.5 million people at the start of this year, according to official data.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/05/us-ukraine-crisis-migrants-idUSKBN0G50XT20140805 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/05/us-ukraine-crisis-migrants-idUSKBN0G50XT20140805)
Ethnic cleansing.
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Some Ukrainian troops were crossing border for Russia during this summer, but this time was the largest case of desertion into Russia by Ukrainian soldiers.
Over 400 Ukrainian soldiers flee to Russia, ask for refuge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-OsrCkXTNY#ws)
http://rt.com/news/177740-ukrainian-military-russia-refuge/ (http://rt.com/news/177740-ukrainian-military-russia-refuge/)
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On the Independence square in Kiev: activists burned tires, police uses stun grenades.
A new `revolution' is on the way? So silly. Who's right now? Maidan or new Government? roll:)
http://gazeta.ua/ru/articles/politics/_na-majdane-stolknoveniya-aktivisty-podozhgli-shiny-miliciya-primenyaet-svetoshumovye-granaty/573955 (http://gazeta.ua/ru/articles/politics/_na-majdane-stolknoveniya-aktivisty-podozhgli-shiny-miliciya-primenyaet-svetoshumovye-granaty/573955)
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That's why I like Germans
[русские субтитры] - Немецкие сатирики обнаружили, что их СМИ им врут (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvAW7wNFLZ0#ws)
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I love cheese from France and Holland... :-(
Hope this embargo will help Russian ecomony.
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Has a good we you need then nothing more numbers because of the few russians victims of world war 2
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Lists of Ukranians soldiers which where killed during this war:
http://www.veteranovd.zp.ua/2014/07/14.html (http://www.veteranovd.zp.ua/2014/07/14.html)
http://www.veteranovd.zp.ua/2014/05/28-1978.html (http://www.veteranovd.zp.ua/2014/05/28-1978.html)
It is so impressive! So terribly! :'(
I have no lists of dead soldiers from opposition and civilians, but I'm sure they are impressive too :'(
I just want to people know that there is a real civil war in Ukranian.
And it isn't only Putin who is guilty, it is also Poroshenko, Obama, Merkel... They all is doing it.
I love Urkaine and I hate too see what's happening there.
Some videos of funerals of Ukranian soldiers
http://youtu.be/yx4djXtOnRU (http://youtu.be/yx4djXtOnRU)
http://youtu.be/pjIl8dd_pJg (http://youtu.be/pjIl8dd_pJg)
You do not need to watch it, it is just remarkably, all people speak Russian.
The government makes people in Ukraine kill themselves.
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I was in Sviatohirsk in 2012
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EZNavMy6FBI/T8zxmzDS0ZI/AAAAAAAAM1g/BEqIX9Oaun4/w1131-h757-no/20120523-DSC03674.jpg)
in Sevastopol and other cities of Crimea
in 2007:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-My-kyZ2XPIM/Ru0hqPLAtHI/AAAAAAAACEg/275dmuD64Hc/w568-h757-no/IMG_1992.JPG)
in Crimea in 2010, Yalta:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7ZTeZVF2HNw/TF7XixTRyEI/AAAAAAAAK90/Ax43gI-qcwQ/w1009-h757-no/IMG_1097.JPG)
in Crimea in 2011:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UJed2uFwy6Y/TljUehHXAlI/AAAAAAAALwQ/wlEPr5nn0jo/w1009-h757-no/IMG_3545.JPG)
the same shirt ))
Also in Crimea in 2012...
And we go there again soon.
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(Reuters) - A Russian convoy of trucks carrying tonnes of humanitarian aid left on Tuesday for eastern Ukraine, where government forces are closing in on pro-Russian rebels, but Kiev said it would not allow the vehicles to cross onto its territory.
Kiev and Western governments warned Moscow against any attempt to turn the operation into a military intervention by stealth in a region facing a humanitarian crisis after four months of warfare.
Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/12/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-aid-idUSKBN0GC08Q20140812 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/12/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-aid-idUSKBN0GC08Q20140812)
Everybody is afraid of Russia ha2ha I would call it madness.
Nice view
Гуманитарный конвой России : Вид с Вертолёта . (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcAFq0wyHIA#ws)
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Ukranian Army speaks Russian, wears German clothing and equipment (http://www.sturm-miltec.de/clothing.htm (http://www.sturm-miltec.de/clothing.htm)) at 01:07 and UK flag Embroidery 4:27. What a mess :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inawozhg2qo#t=277 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inawozhg2qo#t=277)
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What a mess
Fashion doesn't matter when it comes to fight for right.
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Agree. I wanted to say that some Ukranian units have a good support. At least in money. War is costly. Meanwhile people in Kiev live without hot water in the taps (or faucet, how it is in English?)
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Agree. I wanted to say that some Ukranian units have a good support. At least in money. War is costly. Meanwhile people in Kiev live without hot water in the taps (or faucet, how it is in English?)
Tap in the UK, faucet in the US.
It's hard to see what's going on through all the propaganda. I thought the cold war was over but it doesn't look that way.
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ok, thanks zipp :)
True about propaganda. Mass media lies to citizens on one side; on the other - people lie to each other.
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Ukraine President Once Agent for U.S. State Department
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ukraine-President-Once-Age-by-Michael-Collins-Agents_Petro-Poroshenko_Russia_State-Department-140609-372.html (http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ukraine-President-Once-Age-by-Michael-Collins-Agents_Petro-Poroshenko_Russia_State-Department-140609-372.html)
What do you think about wikileaks.org?
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Ukranian Army speaks Russian, wears German clothing and equipment ([url]http://www.sturm-miltec.de/clothing.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.sturm-miltec.de/clothing.htm[/url])) at 01:07 and UK flag Embroidery 4:27. What a mess :) [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inawozhg2qo#t=277[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inawozhg2qo#t=277[/url])
German???
(http://www.altrofoto.de/index.php/Soldat+Milit%E4r+Bundeswehr+Armee+Heer+Soldaten+Tarnanzug+Barrett+Truppe+Kompanie/layout-0249701.jpg?jpeg=1)
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Who makes the most out of conflict DM ?
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If I only knew... I don't know.
You ask as if everybody makes something out of conflict, but some makes most :)
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"Это Родина моя" Пётр Матрёничев и Вика Цыганова. Наш ответ НАТО! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHsjrcOoHkM#ws)
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This english guy do not stop amazing me with his courage
Novorossiya News #5 - The Battle for Donetsk Airport (Full English subs) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E331jy94FlI#ws)
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One of the many footages from Donetsk battlefields.
Штурм аэропорта. На передовой (02.10.14) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4d3YXHFx_Y#ws)
Look like a 3d action game.
Several years ago I was in this airport.
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Russians and Ukrainians united in Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge
Dubai: The flags of Ukraine and Russia will be proudly flown together by a team in this week’s Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge powered by Nissan, as motorsport unites two countries at the centre of world attention in the ongoing Crimean crisis.
http://m.gulfnews.com/sport/motorsport/russians-and-ukrainians-united-in-abu-dhabi-desert-challenge-1.1314461 (http://m.gulfnews.com/sport/motorsport/russians-and-ukrainians-united-in-abu-dhabi-desert-challenge-1.1314461)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10418162_735039866575955_290963132605447756_n.jpg?oh=c7dfc3883c5a4ccc805943186fd3df9f&oe=54AD20D2&__gda__=1425432047_4a850490f0355d0289808004bcd04649)
(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10659360_735039899909285_3667611971891001025_n.jpg?oh=ba4ed5c53830e869f3cede35ffb99a6e&oe=54B3CCE2)
Long live Urkaine with Russia!
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This weekend my wife's brother with his family returned to Donetsk from Mariupol...
And yesterday suburd of Donetsk was hit with SS-21 Scarab (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-21_Scarab), there were big explosions, and shockwave passed through the city, and glass windows were broken in many buildings, even big stadium Donbass Arena suffered
RAW: Munitions plant blast rocks Donetsk, fireballs & smoke billow skyward (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4UL_J1ZEpY#ws)
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Ukrainian government forces used cluster munitions in populated areas in Donetsk city in early October 2014, Human Rights Watch said today. The use of cluster munitions in populated areas violates the laws of war due to the indiscriminate nature of the weapon and may amount to war crimes.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions (http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions)
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All my wife's relatives are in Donetsk again.
It seems, Ukranian president Poroshenko is also doing everything to detach Donetsk and Luhansk regions from Ukranian, or at least just destroy the population there. Recently they stopped paying pensions to the people there, it is several hundred thousands. What should have old people to do, when they just have no money ???
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/15/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKCN0IZ0LX20141115 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/15/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKCN0IZ0LX20141115)
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Terrific video about Russian mass media >:(
ЕжоFF Band - Человек из телевизора (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tiEIEWEwfY#ws)
Hope there will be english subtitles soon.
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Again, about Russian media (RussiaToday)
Da fehlten mir die Worte.
http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Was-ich-vom-Kreml-Fernsehen-gelernt-habe-article14056076.html (http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Was-ich-vom-Kreml-Fernsehen-gelernt-habe-article14056076.html)
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After events in France I totally convinced that most people and all governments are hypocrites. They talk about dozen of deads in France, rally against it, meanwhile in other part of Europe, in Donesk, Ukrainian army kills many citizens every day. Also russians do nothing to stop massacre in Donetsk.
By the way, nice website on war in Donetsk http://militarymaps.info/ (http://militarymaps.info/)
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Looks like documentary chronicles of WWW II:
Донецкий аэропорт 15 января. Воздушная разведка. АРМИЯ SOS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2dsVMpyL40#ws)
В Донецке разрушен Путиловский мост (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5S5R_vdZg4#ws)
My wife cries every time when she sees how they destroy her hometown.
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I'm sorry Dmitry. It must be very difficult for her.
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Thanks, Kelley! Indeed, it is very difficult for her. Also because her relatives are there. They talk via skype every day and I'm tired to hear about war and horrors there. New corpses and cripples there everyday.
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Bad news indeed.
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In 400 meters from their house another bombing occurred 4 hours ago,
two dead, several wounded. This video was shot after accident.
**Breaking** Donetsk Now - Scary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtozHiO8J5k#ws)
Something inside of me is trembling when I hear sound of bombing on 1 m. 6 sec.
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People are leaving Donetsk Донбасс. Бег. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhpA-JH44x4#ws)
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After shelling Mariupol:
24.01.2015 Видео очевидца сразу после обстрела Мариуполя (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etdWJ6Vu7Lw#ws)
The second part of video looks like a Hollywood movie, when aliens came to Earth and started destroying everything, people run.
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7 минут Правды о Донбассе. 18+ / 7 minutes of the Truth about Donbass. 18+ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7cm1sA3MBE#ws)
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Galina Vasilyevna Starovoitova 20 November 1998
Sergei Yushenkov 17 April 2003
Yuri Petrovich Shchekochikhin 3 July 2003
Nikolai Mikhailovich Girenko 19 June 2004
Paul Klebnikov 9 July 2004
Andrei Andreyevich Kozlov 14 September 2006
Anna Stepanovna Politkovskaya 7 October 2006
Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko 23 November 2006
Stanislav Yuryevich Markelov 19 January 2009
Natalya Khusainovna Estemirova 15 July 2009
(http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1426677/boris-nemtsov-murdered.jpg?w=735)
Boris Yefimovich Nemtsov 27 February 2015
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Putin don't have alibi.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Boris_Nemtsov%27s_March_%282%29.jpg)
1 March 2015
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Yes, there are still some normal people in Russia.
You know, people are getting fired, things and food rose twice in price, but TV news shows reports on how good our military helicopters are. Madhouse! Let me out of here!
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I wonder does anybody know what US and canadian troops forgot in Ukraine? They want to die? What for? Or they just for to teach ukrainians kill each other?
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Oh! I see now. On Stephen Harper. Powerful Canadian-Ukrainian lobby, etc.
http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/chroniques/lysiane-gagnon/201504/15/01-4861455-lobsession-ukrainienne.php (http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/chroniques/lysiane-gagnon/201504/15/01-4861455-lobsession-ukrainienne.php)
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http://youtu.be/BAzVRbx_Khc (http://youtu.be/BAzVRbx_Khc)
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If and when it all hits the fan I don't know if we'll all be better off anywhere!
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They started shelling Donetsk again, dozens killed, at least five are civilians. My relatives are there thinking run off again, already left their house.
Meanwhile,
Daily Press Briefing
Washington, DC
June 3, 2015
QUESTION: Just one question about Ukraine – short question. Are you aware of any shellings of Donetsk today or yesterday?
MS HARF: Well, I don’t know if you were here right at the top when I said that the Russian separatist forces launched coordinated attacks overnight against Ukrainian positions near Donetsk city and a couple other cities very close by.
QUESTION: Yes, but I’m talking about shelling by Ukrainian forces.
MS HARF: I’m not aware. I’m happy to check with our team.
QUESTION: Okay.
MS HARF: I’m just not. I’m sorry.
QUESTION: Okay, and next question about MH-17. Today, Russian foreign minister – ministry urged United States to unveil satellite images taken on the date the plane crashed. So are you going to do that, or maybe you are going to transfer to investigators?
MS HARF: Well, we’ve worked with – we’ve given information to the investigators if we thought it was relevant. At the time, I remember us actually putting out maps. And those maps included where we believed, where we had evidence, that this missile was fired from. So we put out, actually, quite a bit of information at the time.
QUESTION: So nothing new?
MS HARF: Nothing new and our assessment of what happened has not changed.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2015/06/243134.htm#UKRAINE3 (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2015/06/243134.htm#UKRAINE3)
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Don't expect anything much from the USA as long as we have a dysfunctional government like this one! The Obama admin. is obsessed with making us into a European style socialist nation or worse! The old USA is in the closet on the shelf for now and it could take years to get it back if at all. Tyranny is breaking out all over! >:(
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As is:
http://youtu.be/2zssIFN2mso (http://youtu.be/2zssIFN2mso)
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As is:
http://youtu.be/Cy-D6xqXyH0 (http://youtu.be/Cy-D6xqXyH0)
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I believe Angela Merkel and François Hollande do what U. S. Department of State says, contrary Germany and France interests. I feel bad when I see what our politics (incl. Putin and Obama) do. Dirty politics and people with money behind them just set nations on each other 2ch
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Chaos in Ukraine
A Ukrainian national guardsman was killed and nearly 90 others wounded by grenades hurled from a crowd of nationalist protesters on Monday as they were guarding parliament where lawmakers backed giving more autonomy to rebel-held areas.
The violence, which the government blamed on the main nationalist party, and division in the pro-Western camp in parliament suggested President Petro Poroshenko will struggle to push through key parts of a faltering peace agreement reached in February for eastern Ukraine.
Read further http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/31/us-ukraine-crisis-status-idUSKCN0R00YV20150831 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/31/us-ukraine-crisis-status-idUSKCN0R00YV20150831)
(http://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20150831&t=2&i=1075854208&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=644&pl=429&sq=&r=LYNXNPEB7U0JM)
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Outright lies from the New York Times: What you need to know about the dangerous new phase in the Ukraine crisis
The new figure for deaths in the conflict zone bouncing around in the press is “approaching 7,000.” Bad enough. But as Stephen Cohen, the honored Russianist, pointed out long ago, this is the number of bodies counted in morgues, nothing more. German intelligence put fatalities at 50,000 or more, and that was six months or so back.
Now comes the very real threat of a far-right insurgency no one can control. Even if Poroshenko manages to keep his balance, this problem will haunt him. Equally, consider the damage to trans-Atlantic relations—already complicated by the Ukraine crisis—if a neo-fascist regime were to take power as the outcome of Washington’s 20-odd year effort to pull Ukraine out by its roots and repot it as another flower in the Western garden.
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/02/outright_lies_from_the_new_york_times_what_you_need_to_know_about_the_dangerous_new_phase_in_the_ukraine_crisis/ (http://www.salon.com/2015/09/02/outright_lies_from_the_new_york_times_what_you_need_to_know_about_the_dangerous_new_phase_in_the_ukraine_crisis/)
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I just returned from my vacations in Crimea. In two weeks I spent as much money as I spent during a September 2014. Prices are very high, and many products more expensive than the same in Moscow. Pity. Very sad!
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I love Russia, but I hate Putin and all his friends who cares only about themselves. They steal more and more while they have power and also they make people's life much harder.
Recent story with Yalta Zoo, one my friend in Yalta, and me (I was in Russian Crimea two times 2014, 2015) confirms that it is getting worse and worse in Crimea because of Russia.
Third Bengal Tiger Cub Dies of Cold in Crimea Blackout :(
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/third-bengal-tiger-cub-dies-of-cold-in-crimea-blackout/552540.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/third-bengal-tiger-cub-dies-of-cold-in-crimea-blackout/552540.html)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/04/bengal-tiger-cub-dies-of-cold-crimea-yalta-zoo (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/04/bengal-tiger-cub-dies-of-cold-crimea-yalta-zoo)
http://lenta.ru/articles/2015/12/11/gospoda_vy_zveri/ (http://lenta.ru/articles/2015/12/11/gospoda_vy_zveri/)
I was in the Zoo in 2012 and 2014 and I like it very much.
http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=4936.msg316185#msg316185 (http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=4936.msg316185#msg316185)
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1954. Chelyabinsk, Russia. Railway demonstrations on the occasion of the 300th anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine with Russia.
(https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/52765/97833783.121e/0_181ab3_4ddb0fd1_XXXL.jpg)
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Very good said!
Rutte: "It is also about the history of Ukraine. If you look at history, Russia will also originated in Kiev and other parts of the Ukraine.."
Premier Mark Rutte vindt dat Oekraïne nooit lid moet worden van de Europese Unie (EU).
Volgens de premier is Nederland tegen toetreding, "omdat wij vinden dat Oekraïne zowel een goede relatie moet hebben met Europa als met Rusland. Dat kan niet als ze in de Europese Unie zouden zitten".
Rutte: "Het gaat ook om de historie van de Oekraïne. Als je naar de geschiedenis kijkt, vindt Rusland mede zijn oorsprong in Kiev en andere delen van de Oekraïne."
Rutte zegt dan ook de houding van Rusland jegens Oekraïne deels wel te begrijpen. "Je kunt niet ontkennen dat Rusland terecht vraagt aan Oekraïne om ook met Rusland een goeie relatie te hebben. Rusland gaat alleen te ver als het zegt dat Oekraïne alleen met Rusland een goede relatie mag onderhouden."
http://www.nu.nl/politiek/4238965/rutte-wil-oekraine-nooit-in-europese-unie.html (http://www.nu.nl/politiek/4238965/rutte-wil-oekraine-nooit-in-europese-unie.html)
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Ukraine
Current issues and what the World Food Programme is doing
1.5 million people in eastern Ukraine are food insecure, including 290,000 severely so and in need of immediate food assistance. Government support to public services has stopped in some areas; this includes funding to schools and hospitals, as well as the payment of social benefits and pensions.
http://www.wfp.org/countries/ukraine (http://www.wfp.org/countries/ukraine)
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(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/an-aerial-view-of-the-kerch-strait-bridge-under-construction-the-picture-id653115346)
(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/an-aerial-view-of-the-kerch-strait-bridge-under-construction-the-picture-id653115242)
http://www.gettyimages.fr/album/bridge-to-crimea-russia-determined-to-complete-a-historic--0TNeJV_4iE-kKKS-P-Y77g#an-aerial-view-of-the-kerch-strait-bridge-under-construction-the-picture-id653115346 (http://www.gettyimages.fr/album/bridge-to-crimea-russia-determined-to-complete-a-historic--0TNeJV_4iE-kKKS-P-Y77g#an-aerial-view-of-the-kerch-strait-bridge-under-construction-the-picture-id653115346)
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Galina Vasilyevna Starovoitova 20 November 1998
Sergei Yushenkov 17 April 2003
Yuri Petrovich Shchekochikhin 3 July 2003
Nikolai Mikhailovich Girenko 19 June 2004
Paul Klebnikov 9 July 2004
Andrei Andreyevich Kozlov 14 September 2006
Anna Stepanovna Politkovskaya 7 October 2006
Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko 23 November 2006
Stanislav Yuryevich Markelov 19 January 2009
Natalya Khusainovna Estemirova 15 July 2009
(http://euromaidanpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/voronenkov.jpg)
Denys Nikolayevich Voronenkov 23 March 2017
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I think too it is Putin's work. Exactly 4 years ago was killed Beresovsky, and 2 years ago Boris Nemtsov. And this year there were several deaths. I don't know much about Voronenkov, but they say he wasn't innocent victim (as much as Beresovsky), first he praised Putin and all things Putin does, then he betrayed Putin. It seems Putin has long tentacles. There are many many deaths, esp. during last years. Hate to see it around. I try not to think much about it because it makes me very sad and angry.
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Bridge on the blood indeed.
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Btw, are you aware of mass protests were passed all over Russia yesterday?
Watch the second video http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39403714 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39403714)
People just can't be silent.
Many pics and video http://varlamov.ru/2299379.html (http://varlamov.ru/2299379.html) http://varlamov.ru/2299062.html (http://varlamov.ru/2299062.html)
Moscow
https://youtu.be/1q2OkVMv4YY (https://youtu.be/1q2OkVMv4YY)
Saint Petersburg
https://youtu.be/CXSQzfx5Vmg (https://youtu.be/CXSQzfx5Vmg)
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This was well reported here in France.
It gives the impression that if you oppose Poutin and they can't kill you they put you in prison!
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Wow! I'm really impressed!
Read this please and sorry for the bad translation
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmeduza.io%2Ffeature%2F2017%2F03%2F29%2Feto-nevozmozhno-uzhe-bolshe-terpet-aleksandr-sokurov-o-politzaklyuchennyh-i-proteste-shkolnikov-v-rossii (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmeduza.io%2Ffeature%2F2017%2F03%2F29%2Feto-nevozmozhno-uzhe-bolshe-terpet-aleksandr-sokurov-o-politzaklyuchennyh-i-proteste-shkolnikov-v-rossii)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbMbhccTI-8# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbMbhccTI-8#)
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Galina Vasilyevna Starovoitova 20 November 1998
Sergei Yushenkov 17 April 2003
Yuri Petrovich Shchekochikhin 3 July 2003
Nikolai Mikhailovich Girenko 19 June 2004
Paul Klebnikov 9 July 2004
Andrei Andreyevich Kozlov 14 September 2006
Anna Stepanovna Politkovskaya 7 October 2006
Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko 23 November 2006
Stanislav Yuryevich Markelov 19 January 2009
Natalya Khusainovna Estemirova 15 July 2009
Denys Nikolayevich Voronenkov 23 March 2017
(http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/WireAP_f82113ead7fe4bbab3ed5f7b31c80030_12x5_1600.jpg)
Nikolai Andrushchenko 19 April 2017
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Will you give me a shelter in the country of freedom and law?
To be true I'm afraid about my child future. I wish I could move to America, though US brings many disasters to other countries.
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(https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5f3e7cc827748a6a38867ea2/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/Gessen-Navalny.jpg)
Alexei Navalny
Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny is out of a medically induced coma, the German hospital where he is being treated said in a statement on Monday.
Navalny "is being weaned off mechanical ventilation" and "is responding to verbal stimuli," Berlin's Charité Hospital said. "It remains too early to gauge the potential long-term effects of his severe poisoning," the hospital added.
The critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin became sick from suspected poisoning on a flight to Moscow from the Siberian city of Tomsk on August 20.
Germany's government said last week that tests on Navalny showed "unequivocal evidence" of the use of a chemical nerve agent from the Soviet-era Novichok group.
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Though Navalny is the critic of Putin and his friends, he speaks a lot, but does nothing against Putin. He even do things that helps Putin. I disappointed in him several years ago. There is no opposition to Putin. There are several influential Kremlin politicians. The result of their dispute was the poisoning of Navalny. That's what I see. I may be wrong, but I don't believe Navalny, this poor guy who became quarrel victim.
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I wonder how the writers at the start of this thread look at their posts now.
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Galina Vasilyevna Starovoitova 20 November 1998
Sergei Yushenkov 17 April 2003
Yuri Petrovich Shchekochikhin 3 July 2003
Nikolai Mikhailovich Girenko 19 June 2004
Paul Klebnikov 9 July 2004
Andrei Andreyevich Kozlov 14 September 2006
Anna Stepanovna Politkovskaya 7 October 2006
Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko 23 November 2006
Stanislav Yuryevich Markelov 19 January 2009
Natalya Khusainovna Estemirova 15 July 2009
Denys Nikolayevich Voronenkov 23 March 2017
Alexei Anatolyevich Navalny 16 February 2024
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200902094652-restricted-file-01-alexey-navalny-2019-super-tease.jpg)