DM's Beatles forums
Beatles forums => The Beatles => Topic started by: Ovi on February 17, 2012, 12:50:11 PM
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I found this article on a blog called 'Where's that sound coming from?' and I thought it was quite interesting :
Its title was "What's in a Voice? A light pondering of timbre and its inequities."
"Lennon vs McCartney:
This pretty much sums up the basis of this thesis. There is the conventional, and very inaccurate, opinion that "Lennon is sincere, smart, witty.." and "McCartney is glib, insincere, all craft, song-and-dance and no emotion". Why? Timbre! Lennon was blessed with one of the coolest, if not the coolest singing voices in pop history. He could roar and yowl, make you feel his pain and send shivers down your spine ("Yer Blues", "Anna", Don't Let Me Down", "I Want You (She's So Heavy)"; he could command your full attention and control your emotions when in a thoughtful mood ("I Don't Want to Spoil the Party", "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away", "Norwegian Wood", "Julia"); and he could spike your drink with whatever he was taking that week ("Strawberry Fields", "I Am the Walrus", "Tomorrow Never Knows"). Listen to "Dear Prudence" and you just feel blessed afterward. You feel Lennon's presence.
On the other hand, Paul McCartney, when yowling ("I'm Down", "Helter Skelter", "Oh Darling") can sometimes make one cringe with discomfort. When singing a cute song ("When I'm 64", "Maxwell's Silver Hammer") Paul seems very at ease, which lends credence to the prejudice. Lastly, when singing a serious and emotional song ("For No One", "Elenore Rigby", "She's Leaving Home"), Paul seems distant and cold--he's reporting, not baring his soul.
So let's pretend Paul sang "Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite". It'd be just another annoying, cute Paul song about the circus. But John's timbre makes it seem like a rather scary circus, even if he didn't want it to be. If John sang the beautiful "Mother Nature's Son", it'd be seen much more as a deep philosophical meditation than a pretty singalong. It's the Lennon/McCartney double standard that still seems to haunt Paul."
Source : http://wheresthatsoundcomingfrom.blogspot.com/2011/02/whats-in-voice-light-pondering-of.html (http://wheresthatsoundcomingfrom.blogspot.com/2011/02/whats-in-voice-light-pondering-of.html)
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I really agree with it, especially with the John singing 'Mother Nature's Son' theory.
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I don't agree with it at all. Yes, Lennon is a great singer, but so is McCartney. I don't feel distance and coldness in his emotional songs at all. Isn't this just another attempt of bashing Paul?
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I don't agree with it at all. Yes, Lennon is a great singer, but so is McCartney. I don't feel distance and coldness in his emotional songs at all. Isn't this just another attempt of bashing Paul?
I don't think so. "There is the conventional, and very inaccurate, opinion that "Lennon is sincere, smart, witty.." and "McCartney is glib, insincere, all craft, song-and-dance and no emotion"." The author is just trying to explain why Lennon(well, one of the reasons) is viewed as a more sincere singer than McCartney. I think that he is as objective as you can be, without bashing neither McCartney or Lennon and/or their singing abilities.
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That's interesting, but while I think John's voice is more "rock" Paul has a classic voice that has always been my favourite because it has a lot of warmth to it.
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I disagree with the assertion that the Paul songs that were mentioned as being cringe-worthy are that at all. He could convincingly rock out as well as he could croon. Both guys could.
John could possibly connect with audiences better on an emotional level.
It's the differences between them that made the blend so interesting. Who wants a band full of clones (other than Kraftwerk fans)?
George and Ringo each had their own distinct vocal styles as well. Again, this made the group all the more interesting.
So says I.
:)
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IMO when J & P were together in the Beatles they complimented each other very very well as singers, there was also healthy competition with each other writing songs, I think they needed each other for greatness, none of them achieved greatness on their own. (as singers or songwriters)
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I think that article is bullsh*t, but thats me. I dont feel those emotions with Pauls singing that he described. He basically just said that John can do anything better than Paul and thats nonsense.
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I think that article is bullsh*t,
I dont think its bullsh*t, I think (Pauls better than John) fans would read that with Paul tinted glasses and say its bullsh*t, but I can see where the guys coming from, Johns voice was more expressive than pauls, listen to Jealous Guy or Oh My Love from Imagine, his voice is full of emotion, thats not knocking Paul, its just fact.
but they were both great singers who complimented each other......
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Paul proved he could sing rock as good as John could 55 years ago when he was belting out blistering versions of Little Richard songs as a teenager.
Beatles - Long Tall Sally (Live at NME - 1964) [FULL HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7zhjWPAvPU#ws)
Beatles - Long Tall Sally (Live, 1965) [Very Good(+) quality] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHfFPBy41Ik#)
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I personally really agree with that article.I love John's voice so much and I agree with how his voice had a lot of emotion.
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I personally (key word there) prefer John's voice, and his songs, but Paul has an amazing voice, too. I never, ever thought I'd hear a cover of "Long Tall Sally" that could even come close to Little Richard's, and yet Paul does a staggeringly good job (again, IMO). And "Helter Skelter" gives me chills -- I always think, this is the guy who sang "I Will" and "And I Love Her" so sweetly? Paul's voice is incredible.
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I think they each of their voices has a quality that I like.
There are moments with John though that are spine tingling. I love in 'This Boy' the part where John belts "til you he seen you cry....".
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I remember one of the 'sounds' that made me a big fan of John was when he sang 'Come'on' several times in the song Please Please Me, his voice was just sooooooo cool
The Beatles - Please Please Me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vZLVJwXP-U#)
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I don't know which one I prefer, but Paul has the better voice - in my opinion.
He can transition from singing so smoothly to so rough effortlessly. His range is incredible. He may seem more of a "textbook" singer than John, but I think his voice is very distinguishable and unique.
But on John's side...his voice in his "Be My Baby" cover is probably my one of my favorite John vocals.
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And "Helter Skelter" gives me chills -- I always think, this is the guy who sang "I Will" and "And I Love Her" so sweetly? Paul's voice is incredible.
This is exactly why I love that "I Will" comes right after "Why Don't We Do it in the Road?" on The White Album (Other than the obvious word play) He's howling one minute and so soft the next. It is hard to believe it's the same guy. When it comes to choosing between John and Paul vocally, I can't. I used to think I prefered Paul's softer voice then I heard "Julia".
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I remember one of the 'sounds' that made me a big fan of John was when he sang 'Come'on' several times in the song Please Please Me, his voice was just sooooooo cool
Yes! That's one of my favorite John vocals.
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While I love John's more uptempo songs and I think his voice has a lot of vulnerability to it, I think Paul's voice has much more depth and warmth to it. I feel comforted by his voice.
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Pauls voice is absolutely fantastic here (and on the rooftop) , one of the great rock voices, I wish to god he'd have carried on writing songs like he wrote on Let It Be
He did for a little while with McCartney 1, but then Wings happened and he went all poppy and silly :(
But thats just my opinion. ;sorry
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His voice on 'Back To The Egg' is the best i've ever heard him in my opinion.
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His voice on 'Back To The Egg' is the best i've ever heard him in my opinion.
is that the one he recorded in an egg ? ;D
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I don't know which one I prefer, but Paul has the better voice - in my opinion.
He can transition from singing so smoothly to so rough effortlessly. His range is incredible. He may seem more of a "textbook" singer than John, but I think his voice is very distinguishable and unique.
But on John's side...his voice in his "Be My Baby" cover is probably my one of my favorite John vocals.
Like at 0:35 here...
The Beatles:Golden Slumbers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUd9Sx5Pumg#)
I was happy when The Beatles stopped playing around with Varispeed.
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People have no idea what constitutes a good voice nowadays if you ask me. They've been conditioned by rock music to prefer a raw, shredded style of singing and they think that's "emotional" but there are many, many ways to emote.
Just ask Maria Callas, Harry Belafonte, Judy Garland, Harry Nilsson, or k.d. lang.
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Like at 0:35 here...
The Beatles:Golden Slumbers ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUd9Sx5Pumg#[/url])
I was happy when The Beatles stopped playing around with Varispeed.
i was happy when Ringo stopped eating spaghetti.
(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6595/spaghettimedium.jpg)
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I dont think its bullsh*t, I think (Pauls better than John) fans would read that with Paul tinted glasses and say its bullsh*t, but I can see where the guys coming from, Johns voice was more expressive than pauls, listen to Jealous Guy or Oh My Love from Imagine, his voice is full of emotion, thats not knocking Paul, its just fact.
but they were both great singers who complimented each other......
It's not fact, it's opinion. And it IS knocking Paul, knocking Paul very much. In fact I have often found John's voice extremely annoying, for example the above mentioned "Imagine", it totally grates on my nerves. Or god, that song "Woman" from Double Fantasy. Makes me cringe. So no it isn't fact.
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In fact I have often found John's voice extremely annoying, for example the above mentioned "Imagine", it totally grates on my nerves. Or god, that song "Woman" from Double Fantasy. Makes me cringe.
Its all opinion of course but Im amazed there are Beatle fans that find one of their voices extremely annoying...
I love them all, theyre all great singers IMO.
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People have no idea what constitutes a good voice nowadays if you ask me. They've been conditioned by rock music to prefer a raw, shredded style of singing and they think that's "emotional" but there are many, many ways to emote.
Just ask Maria Callas, Harry Belafonte, Judy Garland, Harry Nilsson, or k.d. lang.
a lot of people like Adelle but her voice (and songs) grate on me somehow, listening to her for me is kinda like torture
anyway I was gonna say that I reread the article and I agree its a bit unfair on Paul who is a great singer, Todds probably right with his blunt 'bullsh*t' statement, HaHa
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People have no idea what constitutes a good voice nowadays if you ask me. They've been conditioned by rock music to prefer a raw, shredded style of singing and they think that's "emotional" but there are many, many ways to emote.
Not to mention all the Auto-Tuning that is out there....seems like everything that's on the pop stations out here (North Dakota) has some instance of AutoTune. Used sparingly it's OK, I guess, but it seems (to me) to be taking the place of actual singing.
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a lot of people like Adelle but her voice (and songs) grate on me somehow, listening to her for me is kinda like torture
She can't be as grating as this, Kev...
loving you minnie riperton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE0pwJ5PMDg#)
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true Barry ;D
I like this lady's voice (great song too)
The Pretenders - Human (Remastered) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ofxxUc-BqU#)
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Yes. She knows how to sing.
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I'm listening to this...
Pretenders. Back On The Chain Gang. 1985. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uck_ZggRqGA#)
...to get that Loving You noise out of my head.
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Not to mention all the Auto-Tuning that is out there....seems like everything that's on the pop stations out here (North Dakota) has some instance of AutoTune. Used sparingly it's OK, I guess, but it seems (to me) to be taking the place of actual singing.
That bugs me too, along with all the runs that so many singers seem to have in their songs. It's not really neccesary for them to demonstrate their full vocal range every 10 seconds! Oh, and whiney voices are irritating too. Nobody cares. Now I will stop whining. ;)
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It's not really neccesary for them to demonstrate their full vocal range every 10 seconds!
Love it Kelley :)
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Not to mention all the Auto-Tuning that is out there....seems like everything that's on the pop stations out here (North Dakota) has some instance of AutoTune. Used sparingly it's OK, I guess, but it seems (to me) to be taking the place of actual singing.
grrrrr..is that like where the voice is horribly off key, the beats are wrong, the bass guitar is too loud of doing nothing, the drum parts sound faked and the lyrics belong in the garbage-pile-baby. via some electronic voodoo hoodoo? where the lyrics go nowhere, the guitar skillz are nothing but sound effects. yeah i know. there are some rock bands that at try keep it real, possibly.
;yes
Its all opinion of course but Im amazed there are Beatle fans that find one of their voices extremely annoying...
I love them all, theyre all great singers IMO.
was gonna' say...
thank you nimrod. pointless distribution, relentless mockery, confused reality.
truth is i just don't see the point of all that, the golden rule and things.