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[Casbah]

I don't have an opinion yet but it's something I've been meaning to explore.  There is no doubt a definite point or period in Beatles history where the collaboration between John and Paul was still occurring to some degree, yet the willingness to write songs together had waned.

I am trying to tread lightly with my words but I think a lot of you understand what I am trying to say.

John was going one way artistically and Paul another.

Was it possibly when John did LSD? Anyway I'd be interested to hear what you think...

[Ovi]

Maybe it's not true, but I've always thought that the fact that Paul started to write better songs and came up with ideas for the band (like the "Sgt. Pepper" concept) emphasized the tension between him and John. John always considered himself the leader of the band (he put the group together though) and the fact that people started to appreciate Paul more (more than John maybe) during the Revolver-Sgt.Pepper's years may had something to do with the fights between the two fellows. I don't know if that's true, but I've always seen it that way.

And of course, the fact that they different ideas and concepts about songs/albums.

[tkitna]

Yesterday

[emmi_luvs_beatles]

Yesterday

I agree. I think it happened around their last tour.

[cubanheel]

I've always thought that a significant factor in all this was when they stopped living in such close proximity.

In the early days they wrote so many songs together, during the 'Forthlin Road' era, partly because it was all new, and also because they could just hop on a bike and spend the afternoon together. Then they wrote in Hamburg, again the close living arrangements threw them together. And touring was a similar situation.

But when John got his house in Weybridge, and Paul chose to remain in London at the Asher's, I feel that it had to contribute to them starting to write seperately. It was partly circumstance. It's conjecture to suggest that Paul saw that he could write on his own  -  and liked that feeling.

Also John was going through his introspective periods, really because when he wasn't being a Beatle on the touring/recording/filming treadmill, then he had time on his hands, 'all alone' in Weybridge, which is hardly a 'swinging scene'! He wasn't stimulated by normality of family life, and so he went inside himself. Obviously this did lead to some amazing work, but probably didn't help him mentally.

[Bobber]

I read about Can't Buy Me Love the other day in Revolution In The Head, and Ian McDonald stated that this was really the first song that wasn't written 'eyeball to eyeball', like I Want To Hold Your Hand or She Loves You. With 1964 on the calendar and A Hard Day's Night coming up, John worked very hard on his songwriting skills where Paul worked very hard on his new love called Jane Asher.

[Gary910]

I think it was a natural progression of things (life, growing up, etc.). As we get older we want to explore our own world. Hence, why we move out of our parents house, why we find our own way in life, develop our own personality. John and Paul were young when they got together. Brothers, so to speak. The time (and natural progression of things) came when they had to gradually move away from each other and find what they could do on their own.

It is cute to see a baby do baby things, and we say that we don't want to see children grow up, because they are so cute. But we also think it is creepy, weird, and not right when we see a 25 year old acting like a baby.

[Groucho]

Three points.

1) The two were writing songs individually as early as All My Loving, which Lennon called a Paul song.

2) John has said that the death of Brian Epstein was really the beginning of the end of the band, and the point where the other three started to grow resentful of Paul. Apparently, and according to John, Paul started to feel that he had a personal obligation to hold the band together, and started to take charge, lead it, and attempt to be a sort of "father" of it. John felt that Paul was doing so, not for the good of the band, but for personal reasons. To paraphrase a particular interview: "He would come around and say, 'right, let's make a record!'  But Paul did this because he had written something like ten songs, and he was ready to record them. I would say, 'well, give me a couple of days, and I'll knock some songs off.'"

3) Lastly, Lennon has also said he didn't remember the exact point where they all started to drift apart, and said something like, "you don't really remember falling in love either, it just sort of happens."

[Mairi]

Groucho, the last point you've posted is very poignant and accurate. It's a gradual thing when you start to drift away from your friends. In retrospect, we can point to any one thing, but in the end it was between John and Paul, and we can't understand their relationship fully from the outside.

[Casbah]

Ive always felt it went hand in hand with Johns feelings of discontent which leads me to believe Beatles For Sale was their last album before the small fractures started appearing.