DM's Beatles forums

Beatles forums => Albums => Topic started by: Frightwolf on September 10, 2004, 05:23:38 AM

Title: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Frightwolf on September 10, 2004, 05:23:38 AM
What I mean by this is that Help!, by itself, people feel is a good album.  However, when compared to ANY album after it, it seems to get a bit of a shaft.  "Help! is good, but the rest is better." Instead of Help! being the album where they experimented a bit with sounds, Rubber Soul gets the credit.

I feel that, because of this, Help! is a bit underrated as a Beatles album.  I'd go as far as to say that it's superior to Rubber Soul.  I think the title track is great, and it is part of the 1 trinity (along with Yesterday and Ticket To Ride, both awesome songs.) Ticket to Ride was one of the first tunes to have a bit of a different sound to it, if I remember correctly.  Then you have a great Lennon tune (You've Got To Hide Your Love Away), songs that are just REALLY REALLY catchy (You're Gonna Lose That Girl, The Night Before - and the latter is so, SO fun to listen to and get into), George starting to be different (I Need You), some very fast singing by Paul (I've Just Seen A Face, which is a really cool song), and another Paul dittie called Another Girl.

It's such a well put-together album, and most of the songs are pretty darn good.  But it never seems to hold up if compared to any later albums.  Heck, if you look at the "What is the best album?" thread, Help! isn't even listed as a contender.  Why is this?
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Kiss My Bad Self on September 10, 2004, 08:27:15 AM
Help usually does get a bad press compared to the other albums. I've always found it a similar album to beatles for sale. The bealtles are bored with the whole beatlemania thing an want to try some newer interesting musical ideas. But they havnt got enough time because of there scheduals to really put some huge effort into the music. Also at the time they were almost permantly stoned which means they wernt in the fittest state for making a album. I've always thought help sounded half baked, like they wanted to try something serious but couldnt quite pull it of, and Rubber Soul was the first album where they truly realised wat they wanted.

But when you look at it i suppose it has got some great songs. I really like tell me what you see, and your gonna loose that girl. Then it has on the hits such as help, ticket to ride, and yesterday. I suppose help isnt as bad as i heard some people say it is, but i still think its only a warm up to rubber soul.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: zipp on September 10, 2004, 09:53:09 AM
I agree.
Help is a great album.
And you didn't even mention the divine 'It's Only Love'.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Kiss My Bad Self on September 10, 2004, 11:15:48 AM
i've read that lennon hated that song
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: tkitna on September 10, 2004, 04:17:15 PM
[quote by=Frightwolf link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=0 date=1094793818]
songs that are just REALLY REALLY catchy [/quote]

I think you answered the question yourself. I like the album alot, but the songs still hover around their earlier work in my opinion. Rubber Soul songs have more substance and sound a bit deeper to me. It really doesnt matter though, as long as you like it, thats all that matters.

(it was the first Beatle cd I ever bought)

Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Sadie4 on September 10, 2004, 05:07:12 PM
[quote by=Kiss_My_Bad_Self link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=3 date=1094814948]i've read that lennon hated that song[/quote]

 That's true. Its originla title was "That's a nice hat", and JOHN always felts it had terrible lyrics, written beacuse they needed another song for the album.

However, I absolutely ADORE this song! I love it. It's divine, as you say.

Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: zipp on September 10, 2004, 05:16:51 PM
It's also a song that talks of Lennon's shyness with women.

A lot of people would have loved to have written this song and in any case Lennon was very critical of a lot of his own work.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Soft_Guitar60 on September 10, 2004, 05:33:05 PM
[quote by=Kiss_My_Bad_Self link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=3 date=1094814948]i've read that lennon hated that song[/quote]

Yeah, but he hates most songs he'd written. Except for "Help!" and "Strawberry Fields", I think...
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Frightwolf on September 10, 2004, 05:41:31 PM
[quote by=tkitna link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=4 date=1094833035]

I think you answered the question yourself. I like the album alot, but the songs still hover around their earlier work in my opinion. Rubber Soul songs have more substance and sound a bit deeper to me. It really doesnt matter though, as long as you like it, thats all that matters.

(it was the first Beatle cd I ever bought)

[/quote]

And you're right, of course, with your last sentence.  I know that I consider it a great album, and I made this topic strictly for clarification and debate.  It's true that some stuff like You're Gonna Lose That Girl and The Night Before are like early rockers and tunes, but that's the beauty of it.  It has the introspective pieces like Help! and deeper things like Yesterday, but it still has a few of those catchy tunes mixed in and different sounds like Ticket to Ride.

I know you said you liked it, but I'd like to make that point as well.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Frightwolf on September 10, 2004, 05:42:55 PM
[quote by=Soft_Guitar60 link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=7 date=1094837585]

Yeah, but he hates most songs he'd written. Except for "Help!" and "Strawberry Fields", I think...[/quote]

Probably.  During a Lennon tribute by Macca, Paul sang Strawberry Fields Forever, Help!, and Give Peace a Chance, which would definitely be three songs that I think John really liked.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Kiss My Bad Self on September 10, 2004, 10:02:47 PM
i think lennon hated his songs that didnt really mean much to him, that he mainly wrote for fun, such as dig a pony. but although songs like that arnt really that meaningful i think there still good in there own right.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Joost on September 11, 2004, 09:36:05 PM
Help! is probably my least favorite Beatles album.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: SieLiebtDich on September 12, 2004, 03:26:57 AM
[quote by=Sadie4 link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=5 date=1094836032]

 That's true. Its originla title was "That's a nice hat", and JOHN always felts it had terrible lyrics, written beacuse they needed another song for the album.

However, I absolutely ADORE this song! I love it. It's divine, as you say.

[/quote]


yeah i agree  :-)
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: sregis on September 18, 2004, 07:36:41 PM
[quote by=Kiss_My_Bad_Self link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=10 date=1094853767]i think lennon hated his songs that didnt really mean much to him, that he mainly wrote for fun, such as dig a pony. but although songs like that arnt really that meaningful i think there still good in there own right.[/quote]

i think hated is much too strong a term.  if you go strictly by the bitter RS interview, lennon was disliking just about everything except his new album & yoko.  he'd warmed up considerably by the '80 playboy, where he seemed relatively happy w/ a good chunk of his catalog.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: number14 on September 25, 2004, 05:26:18 PM
i agree with kiss my bad self, its a warm up to the great rubber soul
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Wonderwall on September 27, 2004, 11:18:01 PM
  I agree Help! is really a great album and goes unnoticed.  The songs are just as good as those on Rubber Soul but the sound is a bit more stripped.  To me I think the way the songs were mixed to cd gives it a much 'dry' edge.  I think George Martin did a totally new mix for Help! and Rubber Soul in stereo for their cd release. For some reason I dont think the songs on Help! were transfered well on cd.  Thast's my opinon anyway..
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Mendips on September 30, 2004, 12:03:57 PM
You Like Me Too Much is one of my all time favorites!
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Indica on September 30, 2004, 03:02:44 PM
I feel Help is still, by any strectch of the imagination..a classic Album.
But when comparing it to other Beatle Albums such as Rubber Soul etc ..The package seems slightly weak.
I see Help as the end of Beatlemania, a firm Winkle stomp, crushing the screaming culture which developed from earlier smash hits like With the Beatles & A Hard Days Night.
With this inevitable end, we also see glimmer of whats to come, which creates a better footing for Help when defending it.
 The Dope nature of Help has not fully saturated the mood of the Album (unlike the follow up - Rubber Soul)..but again, the listener can see shades of future mind-sets.

This in itself, makes Help a fascinating listen.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: The End on October 02, 2004, 02:47:24 PM
[quote by=Mendips link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=16 date=1096545837]I ADORE Tell Me What You See.[/quote]

I love the way Paul and John blend their voices on this track - "Look in to these eyes now..."
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Sadie4 on October 02, 2004, 03:59:48 PM
[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=17 date=1096556564]I see Help as the end of Beatlemania.[/quote]

 I've always thought something similar to this. I think help is like the transition album, from Beatlemania to moer psychedelic lyrics. It's like the album that belongs to no period, it's in between changes or something...

Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Bruno on October 05, 2004, 02:34:46 PM
I like Help, all the songs are excellent except for the covers.
George's songs are beatiful
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: bilyum on October 06, 2004, 10:04:44 AM
You need to bear in mind that the British release's and American release's of albums were WAY different until the magical days of CD's..........

To answer your question, I haven't a clue. Help was never under rated by me, so I don't know what other people think.   Oft times, I don't care what other people think.

I like every song from the Help Soundtrack album.  Every one.  It's a great album! the Beatles never made a 'Bad' album that I've heard.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: bilyum on October 06, 2004, 10:08:25 AM
[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=albums,m=1094793818,s=17 date=1096556564]I feel Help is still, by any strectch of the imagination..a classic Album.
But when comparing it to other Beatle Albums such as Rubber Soul etc ..The package seems slightly weak.
I see Help as the end of Beatlemania, a firm Winkle stomp, crushing the screaming culture which developed from earlier smash hits like With the Beatles & A Hard Days Night.
With this inevitable end, we also see glimmer of whats to come, which creates a better footing for Help when defending it.
 The Dope nature of Help has not fully saturated the mood of the Album (unlike the follow up - Rubber Soul)..but again, the listener can see shades of future mind-sets.

I think you are over anylizing the whole thing.

Actually, to be more blunt......I have no Idea what you're talking about.

What song off the HELP album was less than par?

This in itself, makes Help a fascinating listen.[/quote]

Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Indica on October 06, 2004, 11:37:11 AM
I didnt say less than par*, more of a change in direction, which ultimately meant the sound and attitude would change.
 When I used the word Weak* I meant in terms of conceptualism, which only fully emerges around Rubber Soul.

Im not over analysing at all, more looking beyond the attitude of 'its fab', and trying to pull out theories and opinions in why is might be seen as underrated.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Sadie4 on October 06, 2004, 07:17:32 PM
 I don't think the record is weak. There are "better" ercords, according to opinions, and "worse" records, but that's all.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Crib Thumper on October 06, 2004, 10:49:20 PM
I think it is definately underrated, but could have been even better with the inclusion of Yes It Is, I`m Down and Leave My Kitten Alone. And maybe take a couple off which I`m not too keen on
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: apple sauce on October 17, 2004, 11:14:32 PM
The fact that this lp was a soundtrack to a movie hurts its credibility! Yea there's awsome songs on it but compared to Beatle lps that were not soundtracks it comes up short! The instrumentals hurt the lp! THere are some excellent songs on this lp! I love the album myself but I don't think it comes to mind when talking about great Beatle lps!
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: raxo on December 25, 2006, 12:42:04 AM
Somewhat underrated, yep ... but it's not the only one!  8)
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: BlueMeanie on December 27, 2006, 01:30:54 PM
Here we go with this 'underated' thing again. Since when was Help! underated?

It's their second great album.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Bobber on December 27, 2006, 04:33:22 PM
It's overrated.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: raxo on December 27, 2006, 04:47:49 PM
For me it's a bit overrated too ... one thing I don't like about  the album is that it includes 3 or 4 all-time classics and 3 or 4 all-time forgetable songs ... there's no much balance in the quality ... at a different level more or less the same can be said about their previous one ... but nobody think that one is overrated at all (and, of course, that's a different debate ... already done!  ;D)
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Bobber on December 27, 2006, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: 297
Somewhat underrated, yep ... but it's not the only one!  8)

Quote from: 297
For me it's a bit overrated too ...

(confused)
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: raxo on December 27, 2006, 06:29:45 PM
LOL! ... with the first statement I was trying to say that it's underrated ... here! (like some others albums) ... but for me it's not a great one ... its fame comes because of their title song and Yesterday mostly ... without them it's more or less as good/bad as the previous ones ...

My own list (posted somewhere here before):
1. Guys For Sale
2. Abbey Road
3. Let It Be
4. The Guys
5. Please Please Me
6. Revolver
7. Rubber Soul
8. Yellow Submarine
9. Help!
10. Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band
11. Magical Mystery Tour
12. A Hard Days Night
13. With The Guys
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: BlueMeanie on December 27, 2006, 06:34:37 PM
I see this thing about saying 'Guys' is catching on. Am I the only one that finds this irritating?
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Bobber on December 27, 2006, 06:42:23 PM
Quote from: 483
I see this thing about saying 'Guys' is catching on. Am I the only one that finds this irritating?

Certainly not. Only raxo and Greenapple like it.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: raxo on December 27, 2006, 06:52:18 PM
Do you really think it's catching on? ... because of threads like these?:
http://dmbeatles.com/forums/b-films/m-1160932280/ ... there are references from the old past too ... we'd got some kind of debate a few weeks ago ... backing to topic: I've been listening to some tracks of the album and (now that you're talking about irritating things):

Tell Me What You See
You Like Me Too Much
Dizzy Miss Lizzy

are annoying ... but they are not the only ones ... too good songs and too bad songs in the album ... I'd like to have That Means A Lot or Wait instead of some of those ... then Rubber Soul wouldn't seem so great ... or it would?


Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: raxo on December 27, 2006, 07:18:38 PM
It exists another thread about Help! and Rubber Soul with interesting points of view:
http://dmbeatles.com/forums/b-albums/m-1155121575/
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: ScareCrow on February 08, 2007, 09:31:20 PM
"Help" is an excellent album. And it is sort of underrated.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: BlueMeanie on February 10, 2007, 08:49:18 AM
Quote from: 583
"Help" is an excellent album. And it is sort of underrated.

Help! is a fantastic album. What's not to like about it?
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Revolution on February 25, 2007, 01:43:54 AM
Help!  is a Great album!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: silby on March 13, 2007, 06:44:07 AM
If any other band had put out Help, it would be considered their masterpiece.  Help is only underated because of its relationship to the great albums that followed.  I think the best 6 or 7 tracks hold their own with Revolver/Rubber Soul.  However, it has some filler that keeps it from the 'greatest album' polls.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: GreenApple on March 13, 2007, 10:26:29 AM
Welcome, Silby!  :)
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: raxo on March 13, 2007, 01:24:40 PM
Welcome to the forums, silby ... hope you'll enjoy them! :)
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Andy Smith on March 21, 2007, 10:13:11 PM
I do feel that the songs on Help are very underated, but i
always feel that the b-side of the album was not as good as the songs
in the film.
I always prefered the songs on 'help' than 'a hard days night'
they were experimenting more with Wah-Wah guitars and various instrumentation.
Help itself is a brillant song, Another Girl i really love (with macca on guitar!)
you've got to hide your love away shows the folkie side of the fabs (or Lennon),
with the flute and Ticket to Ride is a very heavy guitar sound (for the time).
The best one on the b-side for me is Yesterday (a claasic by miles!)
Maybe this albums is a little overlooked (i don't know) but i certainly think it
would have make a fantastic EP!
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: JimColyer on March 23, 2007, 12:51:07 AM
The songs are great on Help!, but all the oriental stuff was a distraction .  
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: silby on April 10, 2007, 07:31:04 AM
Quote from: 139
Welcome, Silby!  :)
Quote from: 297
Welcome to the forums, silby ... hope you'll enjoy them! :)

Wow -  2 welcome messages.  Real community!  Thanks!!!

Since I'm back, I'll reiterate...  the best songs on Help hold their own with Rubber Soul/Revolver.  The way they go into the bridge (middle section) of You're Gonna Lose That Girl knocks me out.  
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: tangerine on April 10, 2007, 09:48:43 AM
For me, the title track, 'help' stands out loads as being on a higher platform than the other songs on the album- and I reckon that song alone brings the whole album up to a higher credibility (if that's a word)

I think it's hard to tell if the album is underrated because it's one thing to compare it everything that was going on in the music field at the time- like albums by other artists but it's quite another to compare it to the Beatle's other albums. I guess it comes down to personal preference and it seems that most people's personal opinions are that rubber soul, revolver and pepper were 'better'. I'm afraid I would be inclined to agree that rubber soul was 'better' in my opinion- I can't get over how modern it still sounds!

So basically I'm saying Help is more overlooked than underrated. I think it gets more a lack of praise rather than bad praise? From what I've seen anyway.

By the way, about Lennon's favourite songs which were discussed earlier in the thread, just to mention that I've read that he liked 'Across the Universe' (he described it as poetry, and a song which was written kind of 'through' him- it wasn't actually him writing it) and 'Come Together' (just read this somewhere)  ;)  
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Kevin on April 10, 2007, 10:14:07 AM
^I've never cared much for Help the song. IMO one of John's least successful attempts at being Dylan. The melody is boring by Beatle standards. Everyone gets a bit gushy about the lyric because it's not an obvious boy-girl song, but I think they lack any  poetry or charm and are  ploddy . A bit self pitying as well, and I don't like John when he goes down that road. The arrangement is dull and unimaginative. I donta like it at all.
You've Got To Hide Your Love away - now there's a song that could be comfy on Revolver. I can't hear Help there.
I think Help! the album has some great songs on it that wouldn't be wrong on Rubber Soul. But something is definately missing that reduces it's impact as an album. It needs a little spark. God bless dope.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: tangerine on April 10, 2007, 10:41:21 AM
Quote from: 185
^I've never cared much for Help the song. IMO one of John's least successful attempts at being Dylan. The melody is boring by Beatle standards. Everyone gets a bit gushy about the lyric because it's not an obvious boy-girl song, but I think they lack any  poetry or charm and are a ploddy . A bit self pitying as well, and I don't like John when he goes down that road. The arrangement is dull and unimaginative. I donta like it at all.
You've Got To Hide Your Love away - now there's a song that could be comfy on Revolver. I can't hear Help there.
I think Help! the album has some great songs on it that wouldn't be wrong on Rubber Soul. But something is definately missing that reduces it's impact as an album. It needs a little spark. God bless dope.

Fair enough  :) I think it's the kind of nostalgicness (sorry not a word) of the lyrics for me- like talking of the past. A bit like 'In My Life' in a way. I think it's the honesty of it that I like. I guess I see what you mean with self-pitying, but I don't really mind that. But 'You've got to hide your love away' is one of my favourite Beatles songs- so theres something we do agree on.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: raxo on April 10, 2007, 01:07:29 PM
Quote from: 621
Wow -  2 welcome messages.  Real community!  Thanks!!!
[...]

Surely there are if you introduce yourself here  ;):
http://dmbeatles.com/forums/b-conversations/m-1168975937/s-0/

Some people don't know yet that you belong to these forums  :-/ ...
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: oldbrownshoe on August 07, 2015, 09:48:16 PM
Didn't know where to put this, so I'll put it here.

We should all now be conversing re: the 50th anniversary release of the 'Help!' LP (released in the UK on 6th August '65) on an affordable 2-CD, incorporating mono and stereo versions, set.

We're not.

Why are we not?

Because Apple completely cocked up the reissues, going far too early and far too 'box set', when they should have released the BBC set in 2009 instead.

As such, they completely missed the publicity (and FAR GREATER PROFITS) of re-releasing all the LPs/CDs on their 50th anniversaries.

Doh!

Brewery/Couldn't/Organise/P--- Up scenario.
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: Bingo Bongo on August 07, 2015, 11:09:16 PM
You need to bear in mind that the British release's and American release's of albums were WAY different

Ya the US buyer got fleeced since half the songs were missing with musical filler from the Help! movie. Same in '64, they also had to buy the "Something New" album to get the rest of the songs from the UK A Hard Day's Night LP.   icon_mad

Yes, I find the UK Help! LP is a classic, so maybe it is a tad underrated!  ;yes
Title: Re: Does anyone feel that Help! is underrated?
Post by: BeatleFan on July 05, 2016, 12:35:55 PM
It's a good precursor to Rubber Soul. They were continually evolving their sound, each time growing and just getting better as a band. In my mind Help is a noticeable jump from Beatles For Sale. Revolver and Abbey Road are always going to get more love, but Help manages to fight its corner to this day. Side one of the LP is as entertaining as anything they ever recorded, quite frankly. Side two isn't as strong, but It's Only Love and Yesterday are standouts.