DM's Beatles forums
Other forums => Different Conversations => Topic started by: Sondra on July 02, 2004, 10:37:37 PM
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With all the political discussion going on lately I thought it would be interesting to see who we all lean towards. The polls I've been seeing on the news have Bush and Kerry coming in very close. This is going to be an interesting election year!
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Hey, I'm the first one to vote! Polls closed! Kerry wins by a landslide with 100% of the votes!
Oh yeah....vote Kerry.
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Yes, this will be an interesting election year. Too bad all the funny cast members from Saturday Night Live are gone........they made last election year hillarious! Oh well. We still got Conan :)
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yeah, Josh Meyers impression of kerry sux and no one can do bush. Conan rocks but Jon Stewart of the Daily show is better.
Kerry '04
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I vote we don't do any more political polls.
:D
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why Charlie, wheres the fun in that?
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I'll be voting for Nader, or David Cobb of the Green Party. Same platform really.
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Rowdy, I'm trying very hard not to scream at you right now. Ralpg Nader is an idiot, and it is because of him that Bush is in the Whitehouse. He has no chance and will merely steal votes from Kerry, but he feels exercising his personal rights is more important than the future of this country. Please dont vote Nader, its like a vote for Bush.
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I don't vote
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Yeah, a vote for Nader is a wasted vote for sure. Why would you even consider it? Even if you think he's the best candidate, a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush. And Bush is obviously the worst candidate. For the love of God, don't let that man back in the White House!!!
Oh yeah, Vote Kerry.
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It's not a vote for Bush, it's a vote for Nader. Look if Bush won because of one vote in my state, then it would have been a tie had I voted for Kerry. Then there would be a recount, and suddenly one candidate would win by at least a few votes. Kerry voted for the war....I just don't believe in that and therefore can't vote for him.....I saw the need to remove Bush, and still hope it occurs and I would have voted for the Democrat had it been Dean (or by a longshot Sharpton, Kucinich or Mosely Braun)....it's not Nader's fault that Bush is in the White House....Gore ran a horridly boring campaign and there was undeniable tampering with the votes in Florida. Blame Gore or the Supreme Court, not Nader. There was enough votes in Florida for Socialist and Reform candidates that you could blame them for Gore's loss. Everybody has the right to run and vote for who they choose.
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But Nader is going to take Kerry's votes, not Bushes. If you vote for Nader you are throwing a vote for Kerry away, which is like voting for Bush. You know that there's no way that Nader will win. So why in God's name would you throw a vote away on him?
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your votes don't count for anything, it's just like this poll it doesn't do a thing.
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Supposedly, Nader is polling just as strongly with the right as he is with the left....you have to remember that a lot of his supporters ditched him after Gore lost in 2000, so he's really reaching out to the independents, and some of us liberals who aren't fond of Kerry. If Kerry loses, it's his own fault. The presidency was ripe for the taking, but Kerry's indecision over issues and flip flopping has left the general public unable to gain a positive image of him.
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Kate Bush definitely gets MY vote! ;)
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If it werent for Ralph Nader, George would not be in the White House. That is a fact.
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=15 date=1089054080]If it werent for Ralph Nader, George would not be in the White House.
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Kerry is getting shredded by the Bush ads. When are the dems going to realize that they have to hit back? I think John Edwards would have been a better candidate because he has a more likeable personality, whereas Kerry comes across as a rotten log that won't stop talking.
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Anyone would've been a better candidate.....and if we had Dean, for example, it might have stopped the Nader run since Dean wasn't for the war in the slightest....but we'll never know now....one of the problems of having the whole thing start in the conservative state of Iowa...there's enough people mad at Bush, so we'd be better off with a guy further to the left like Dean who can energize people.
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Im the odd one out i would vote for bush
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Wayne obviously will be voting for Bush as well.....but he hasn't been around here lately to vote, I guess.
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Kerry all the way.(thumbsup)(clap)(dance)
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Heh, our Australian member voted in this poll yesterday......I'm guessing he chose "Other" :)
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Hey even if he was american he'd be too young! There's a few youngins around here voting! Well, at least they're thinking about it. That's pretty impressive for such a young age. At 14 all I was thinking about was how long it was untill Friday night!
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In Australia, it's mandatory to vote from what I hear....maybe he can can verify how this is done.
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Oh, who blew the shutout of Bush. That was really quite impressive. Yeah Macca, i voted in it, I'm only 14. Basically, after graduation season all the parties start to suck, so i pay a little more attention to politics. Not too much though ;)
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Even though George Bush makes me laugh, I still want Kerry to win.
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=25 date=1089332846]Oh, who blew the shutout of Bush.
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Thank you for the compliment. And if i seem a little slow at times, remember, im still learning in life.
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When I was 14 all I did was play video games and watch TV. Damn I wasted so much time on that crap! But then again, Bill Clinton was president, times were better, and I could afford video games. :) Still wish I hadn't spent so much time playing them though. I must have spent thousands of hours playing the Resident Evil series.
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[quote by=strutter84 link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=29 date=1089350707]But then again, Bill Clinton was president, times were better, and I could afford video games. :) [/quote]
Golden.
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http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/
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Oh man, that is the funniest thing ever. I'm still not going to vote for him though and just hope he wins.
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[quote by=Rowdy link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=32 date=1089394656]Oh man, that is the funniest thing ever. I'm still not going to vote for him though and just hope he wins. [/quote]
drrrrrrrr...that statement made my brain hurt. Just hope he wins. Why don't we all do that.
Ps Ed, great link and nice new signature too ;D
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Eh, herecomesyoursun, I won't see you voting for him either. ;)
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oh i thought you meant hypothetically. Yes, i guess neither of us will be voting Kerry, but previously you've mentioned your support for Nader, so i thought thats what you meant. That you would vote Nader and hope kerry won.
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=35 date=1089422317]oh i thought you meant hypothetically. Yes, i guess neither of us will be voting Kerry, but previously you've mentioned your support for Nader, so i thought thats what you meant. That you would vote Nader and hope kerry won.[/quote]
No, that's right, I was just making a joke there about you not being old enough to vote.
;)
I am, and shall be voting for Nader and hoping Kerry will win. We'll just have to see what happens....but I think Kerry will run away with this thing by November.
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[quote by=Rowdy link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=36 date=1089422449]
No, that's right, I was just making a joke there about you not being old enough to vote.
;)
I am, and shall be voting for Nader and hoping Kerry will win. We'll just have to see what happens....but I think Kerry will run away with this thing by November.[/quote]
Do you not see the idiocy in that statement. If you're hoping Kerry will win, contribute by voting for him. God, i hate Ralph Nader
And if I remember correctly, you're 18, so i guess neither of us are voting Nader either, eh ;)
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You can vote when you're 18....I already voted in the primaries in February. I like to vote for what I believe in, and Kerry's politics definitely aren't. He changes his opinions on the issues to whatever is popular, just like Clinton.
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Oh my god i feel stupid. I got it confused with drinking. Apologies :B
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No worries.....then again, how many teens under the age drink? Most.
I don't however. I get drunk on politics.
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lol. Drunk on politics, that's pretty good. I prefer to get drunk on music myself.
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Yeah, music is also a good scotch. But politics can be riveting.......my heroes, Dean and Nader, had a debate earlier today. Good stuff.
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My heroes, Page and Plant are working on a new DVD. Good stuff.
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[quote by=strutter84 link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=43 date=1089488882]My heroes, Page and Plant are working on a new DVD. Good stuff.[/quote]
Page and Plant DVD? Or Zeppelin DVD?
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Well, a new Led Zeppelin DVD is definitely planned for the near future. But they've just completed working on a Page/Plant Un-Ledded DVD. No release date has yet been announced though.
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=25 date=1089332846]Oh, who blew the shutout of Bush.
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Well, we've still got a few months to change your mind. ;)
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I picked bush for now, not that I really like him. However, at least Bush is consistent. Kerry flip flops too much for me. I don't think Kerry is going to make anything any better than Bush will. Also, Kerry is pro-choice, which in my book is reason enough not to vote for him. At least I think he is, I know he was I heard he changed his mind, but I could be wrong. In any case either he is pro-choice which makes me not want to vote for him, or he is not now which is just another example of his flip flopping.
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You're right, Bush is consistent. When one of his lies gets blown wide open, he always finds another to make the American people choke on so he can do whatever he wants.
And abortion is not an issue one should use as a decissive factor in who they vote for. Abortion will never be illegalized again. It's here to stay, and though it's a terrible thing, it needs to be legal. Do you even know why it was made legal in the first place? Because before it was legal, and done professionally women would do it themselves, or have back alley doctors perform the procedures for them. They would beat their stomachs or try to stab the babies with close hangers, and alot of times they just ended up with deformed and retarded babies, or dead babies, along with dead mothers. That's what it will go back to. And George Bush is so retarded, that he outlawed stem-cell research, the one good thing that can come from abortion. 3 years of research down the drain. They could have cured cancer, or alzheimers, or MS by now with 3 years of research. And just think of all the hundreds (maybe thousands) of research specimens that had to be just thrown away because of it. I ask you.......does conservativism really do any good? I think not. The world changes all the time, and our government needs to be willing to let us change with it. I don't want to have a government that passes judgement on those who believe what they have a right to believe. If it were up to the Republicans, they'd burn everyone who wasn't Christian at the stake.
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you are right, it would go back to doing it illegally and not as safely, however in that case, a lot of people doing it may think twice. It would still save lives. And you are probably also right that it will not go away. However, I still cannot have a clean conscience if I help put someone in office who's standards are so low that he supports killing babies. Maybe stealing life of another person isn't a big deal to you, but its a big deal to me.
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Abortion is not going to be legalized, neither will socialized health care come about......these are just wedge issues that the parties bring up, most often during the Presidential races...it was a conservative Supreme Court that decided to legalize abortion....the Conservatives aren't going to ever illegalize abortion or go along with a lot of other issues that the religious right believes in....it's a party built on corporations....Halliburton, Enron....it's all corporations....they'll just keep appealing to people against abortion, but they would never try to stop it, even if they could, because then they would lose an issue that gets them so many voters.....the Democratic party isn't too different either when they say socialized health care....Clinton mentioned it, but never really did much to try and get a nationwide system like Canada's......I really don't think Kerry will do it either....
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@daytrip202
But you will have a clear conscience voting for someone who sent hundreds of 18, 19, 20 year old American boys to their deaths for the sake of an oil well or two? Democrats are not "pro abortion" like you think. It's not like they would advise a woman to get an abortion; quite the contrary in fact. They would all advise any woman against getting an abortion in any situation, but they understand that it has to be kept legalized for the reasons I mentioned.
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who the hell does Ralph Nader think he is? And Daytrip, it a frivolous struggle to try and illegalize abortion. Like Rowdy said, Republicans would never fix a problem that brings them so many voters. Please people no more Bush.
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My vote goes to the Kerry Edwards ticket. Not because their Democrats but because America NEEDS a CHANGE in leadership.
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It's always the same bull. Everyone wants to oust the old president and vote for the "new guy," thinking that's going to make such a big difference. And when it doesn't - as usual - then what? Believe me, all the Kerryites will be voting him out too in a few years.
No wonder I've never voted...
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Well Kerry's big speech was tonight, and I think he did okay compared to how numbingly stiff he normally is. I find it really hard to connect with him on a personal level, something about him. The content of the speech was good though. Kerry/Edwards '04!
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I watched Kerry's speech for about 2 minutes. I already know I'm voting for the guy so I don't really need to be bored to death. He's okay, but not much of a dynamic speaker! I missed Ron Reagan yesterday. Wonder how he did.
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P.S.
Does Al Sharpton think we're all deaf? Ugh!
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Well, I'm not old enough to vote, but if I were to vote I'd go for...
(http://www.georgewbush.com/images/downloads/GWB_logo_200.gif)
I'm sure someone will wanna hit me for it, but its who I chose, I'm actually part of his reelection campaign.
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Oh man, that's too bad. I'm really sorry.
Anyhow, I won't want to vote Kerry out 4 years from now. My 2 best friends in the world got back from Iraq exactly one week ago from tomorrow. They've been there over 6 months longer than they were legally allowed before Bush changed the laws. And they're National Guardsmen, so they weren't even supposed to be there in the first place. They run the risk of getting sent back within a year if Kerry doesn't get elected, and that would be too much for me! I can't lose my friends over a f***in oil rig. Kerry said tonight that he would not use the National Guard as a "backdoor draft" like Bush did. So he'll keep all the Guardsmen, and the reserves in the country, where their job descriptions say they belong.
Vote Kerry/Edwards 2004!
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=55 date=1091155606]It's always the same bull. Everyone wants to oust the old president and vote for the "new guy," thinking that's going to make such a big difference. And when it doesn't - as usual - then what? Believe me, all the Kerryites will be voting him out too in a few years.
No wonder I've never voted... [/quote]
Some administrations do more damage than others. This one has attacked America from within, anyone with half a brain should want to get rid of these criminals.
As far as not voting, Joe, that's not something to be proud of (like doing drugs is.) :D
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^ lol!
I'm gonna vote for Kerry mainly because I do not want Bush for another 4 years. :P
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[quote by=misterchaz link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=61 date=1091292588]
Some administrations do more damage than others.
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nope Charlie you had it right the first time
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=64 date=1091328601]nope Charlie you had it right the first time[/quote]
Only because you agree with me. If you didn't, then I'd be King Mixer.
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(http://www.pigs-in-lipstick.co.uk/images/JohnandJohn.jpeg)
Watch this pic closely. The other guy's name is also John, can you guess his last name?
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Some administrations do more damage than others.
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Bush or Kerry.
Although its not my Country thats in Discussion, America has a great deal of power over the world..Like it or not.
I feel Elections in the states are an absolute joke. It boils down to who has the most money, and who can afford the biggest batch of balloons.
Although this opinion is obviously generalised, the truth is not far off!
Although Bush and Kerry may have a natural Flair for politics..(well..Bush can be excused) Pumping millions into the election campaigns only proves one thing..how big their Bank Balances are.
I feel Bush has had his chance, But Kerry...the advertisments make me laugh.
Video Clips showing him Snowboarding, Playing the acoustic Guitar, riding his bike...can people not see through this shameless ploy?...so he was a veteran of Vietnam, his biggest selling point..crumbles into nostalgic overblowjng which has little relevance on todays global politics (Vietnam/Iraq)..with no real comparisons..except for them being wars.
If Kerry doesnt win, then the right-Wing Bush Administraion is untouchable.
God help us.
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=67 date=1091367478]
I'm not ashamed of not voting. Give me someone worth voting for, whom I believe is good for the job, and I will vote. I'm very proud of not just voting to say I've voted, even when I didn't like either candidate. Then everyone whines about the votes not being counted fairly anyway.[/quote]
Well I do agree that voting for the better of two evils is getting tiring...
Your opening statement here is a popular one, but it's not one I agree with. Take a look at the beheading videos over at certain websites (I won't divulge them here because we have too many young viewers) and find out who the REAL enemy is. It's our own people here like Moore who are against us -- you never hear anything about those animals in Iraq beheading Americans,
You DON'T?? What news channels are YOU watching Joe?
but Michael Moore would love to make everyone believe we're doing so much harm to those innocent little Iraqi's.
No, Moore is offering a different take on the admin's news spin. They tried controlling every outlet (and succeeeded initially) with heavy-handed tactics designed to squash ANY dissent. THAT is not America, Joe. It's not even Lithuania. :)
Where's all the furor over what they're doing on those videos? oooooh -- that's right -- we also put panties on their soldiers' heads. How comparable!
Well, as with the drug issue I feel you are speaking far more from an emotional space than a fact-based one. I supose we all do that at times but really...I haven't heard about our prisoner abuse scandal for at least a month, maybe two. The beheadings are still daily news around these parts.
Gah! MORE conversation that will never resolve anything!!!! I am about to start a thread about religion called 'The Pope, the Jews, and You'. Hope to see you there! :D
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Joe, Michael Moore is not whining about the amount of "little Iraqis getting hurt", he is outraged at the number of American soldiers being killed. Listen to what he's actually saying, don't just genaralize. Also, anyone proud of not voting should have their citizenship revoked. We live in the greatest country in the world with the best Democratic system (yes, it has it's flaws but what doesn't). Real American patriots died a long time ago, so that you could have a say in your government. And now you're saying you don't want it?
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Joe, Michael Moore is not whining about the amount of "little Iraqis getting hurt", he is outraged at the number of American soldiers being killed.
American soldiers who - God Bless them - volunteered. This wasn't a draft situation. Now, this doesn't mean that I want our people being killed or even injured, but I'm just saying it was their decision and I applaud them for their courage. It's a courage that enables Moore's freedom to make films like he does in the first place. Also, in Moore's film, he at least partly portrays U.S. soldiers as "whooping it up" and looking like trigger-happy partygoers, listening to rock music and all of that ...... Well, Moore can't have it both ways --- first making our boys portrayed as appearing to be "having fun" doing the bombing in his film, but then whining that they're getting killed as victims. Either they're content being there or they aren't. Which is it?
Also, anyone proud of not voting should have their citizenship revoked.
Guess mine should be revoked then. However, I've seriously been considering registering this year, honestly. But picking the "lesser of the evils" when they're both phony and frauds and you don't really have confidence in either .... well, that's just dumb, IMO.
Real American patriots died a long time ago, so that you could have a say in your government. And now you're saying you don't want it?
I never said that. I most certainly DO want it, and I am glad to have the opportunity - for whenever I deem it worth using on some future election. :)
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You're wrong, because Bush did use a "draft". A very sneaky, underhanded draft involving the National Guard. No where in their job description does it say they're supposed to go overseas as soldiers in wars like this. When they're called up, they're supposed to stay here and guard our country. Hence the name "National Guard".
And what Michael Moore is doing is exposing what is really going on; the lies and the scandals and saying: "Hey, people....look at what's really going on! This has to be changed!" And he's right. He is absolutely right.
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Anyone see Moore on the O' Reilly show? I missed it.
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He actually went on O'Reilly? That's crazy.
EDIT: I just read the transcript....search for Moore and O'Reilly and you can find it.....interesting to say the least....Moore brings up some good points that O'Reilly continually sidesteps around...
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That's because Bill O'Reilly is a moron. He never lets any of his guests express their views on anything. All he does is put them down and try to make them feel stupid. I love it when it backfires in his face. Basically everything he says is but to say: "Though you've proven me wrong, I still say I'm right and you're a big poopey head!"
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And what Michael Moore is doing is exposing what is really going on; the lies and the scandals and saying: "Hey, people....look at what's really going on!
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A very sneaky, underhanded draft involving the National Guard.
Oh, really? So then I guess you'd say our men are unhappy being over there figthing the War on Terrorism? Let me ask you this -- if it's so "sneaky and underhanded" and if our men were "forced" into war -- why does Moore portray them as trigger-happy and glad to be there blowing things up in his movie? ;)
PS - you should be glad they're over there destroying the evil ones before evil comes here and tries to change life as we know it in the U.S. -- and then we won't have the freedom to communicate freely like this on the internet at all, unless we get our heads sawed off! :)
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=76 date=1091470436]
No, Moore is only using filmclips and presidential footage that he wants to use in order to show HIS agenda. There could be a completely opposite film constructed by any staunch conservative, using clips and scenarios that better fit his agenda. It's only ONE side, not the ONLY side.
And whether Moore is right or not, I don't like the fact that he puts all his time, money and effort into making a film about how foul our President is, and how bad "we" are.
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=77 date=1091470586]
Oh, really? So then I guess you'd say our men are unhappy being over there figthing the War on Terrorism? Let me ask you this -- if it's so "sneaky and underhanded" and if our men were "forced" into war -- why does Moore portray them as trigger-happy and glad to be there blowing things up in his movie? ;)
PS - you should be glad they're over there destroying the evil ones before evil comes here and tries to change life as we know it in the U.S. -- and then we won't have the freedom to communicate freely like this on the internet at all, unless we get our heads sawed off! :) [/quote]
A bit alarmist, don't you think? No one is coming over here to take over and saw heads off. Really.
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=76 date=1091470436]
No, Moore is only using filmclips and presidential footage that he wants to use in order to show HIS agenda. There could be a completely opposite film constructed by any staunch conservative, using clips and scenarios that better fit his agenda. It's only ONE side, not the ONLY side.
And whether Moore is right or not, I don't like the fact that he puts all his time, money and effort into making a film about how foul our President is, and how bad "we" are.
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Absolutely absurd, Joe.
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Wow, calling someone anti-American for excersising their right to free speech.
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A bit alarmist, don't you think?
Was 9/11/01 that long ago?
Anyway, this isn't getting anywhere but making trouble. First drugs, now this -- I think we'd do better discussing the early Beatles VS the Late Beatles (I think!) :)
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=82 date=1091487409]
The only ones I feel are being "stifled" and made afraid to speak their minds are me (an Independent) and the Republicans. It's like suicide daring to come here and speak so much with a slant to the right. I hope I don't get banned (give me a warning first, please?) because this is basically a BEATLES board, and I'd hate to lose the chance to discuss them because of this very sensitive thread...
My previous post to Mr. Charlie can stand here, too. Improve ourselves? How? By sitting around and waiting for the evil to attack us first? My wife works around the corner from what was once the World Trade Center. No thanks.[/quote]
If in any way I have personally offended you I'm sorry. There used to be a big right-winger here (Wayne) and I got used to being aggressive when talking politics. Please don't be afraid to speak you're mind.
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=82 date=1091487409]
My previous post to Mr. Charlie can stand here, too. Improve ourselves? How? By sitting around and waiting for the evil to attack us first? My wife works around the corner from what was once the World Trade Center. No thanks.[/quote]
Iraq was not a threat to attack us. If anything, our prescence there has only increased our vulnerability and encourages attack. And as for Michael Moore, he is just as adamant that we must find al-Queda as anyone. However, in a post like that, you are implying that Iraq and terrorism attacks like 9/11 are related. They are not.
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=81 date=1091487321]
I didn't
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=83 date=1091487593]
Was 9/11/01 that long ago?[/quote]
So we are going to be invaded and America will fall to the heathens, with beheadings for all? Yeah, I'd say it was QUITE alarmist.
Anyway,
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Sorry, but I'm really not too afraid of Iraq's stolen, leftover Russian Migs, that are all broke down and crappy anyway.
And the Republicans stifle themselves so that people don't know the real truth. That's why Cheney won't divulge the transcripts to his converstions with the big shot oil executives before we invaded Iraq. We know what he said, but he still won't tell us. I'm going to agree that the Bush administration is the real enemy today.
And I'm glad you express your opinions like you do, though we disagree on our views. You're much smarter than Wayne was. I wonder if maybe he was a bit on the slow side, or was really a 10 year old trying to sound big and smart.
And religion sounds like another good topic to discuss. I always love discussion religion.
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Sorry, but this argument does not even make sense. Since when is he held to (your) choice? If he's free to talk about anyone, he's free to talk about anyone.
And I'm free to say I think he's Anti-American slime. True?
WHOEVER takes our freedom away is our REAL enemy. From outside -or- from within. MANY see Bush as the enemy, as do I. Therefore, we speak.
And I don't see Bush as the enemy - and therefore I'm speaking. And giving my opinion on those who think he is. Sounds fair enough to me.
They're NOT mutually exclusive. Nor should anyone insist that they SHOULD be.
Why is it okay for you to say what are "should's" or "ought not's", and yet I cannot? You have your sense of what "should or shouldn't," and so do I. Difference is, mine don't tow the Politcial Correctness Line.
Yet your arbitrary rules don't affect anyone else on the planet except you. So what you view him as has no basis in any sort of reality.
My so-called "arbitrary rules" aren't only my own. They're shared by others. I don't know why you bring up "reality".... whatever I feel, I feel.... whatever I believe, I believe. My reality is my reality - my opinions, my viewpoints, my standards. And they're as valid as anybody's.
Joe, that is the oldest trick in the book, the old "I get email support" claim. I'm not saying you don't but surely you realize that statement has no weight to it whatsoever? The was was initially needless. Now we're stuck, we can't leave, nor should we. Not yet. But that's like you picking a fight for your brother to handle for you, then you go home for cookies and he's still embroiled.
Whatever. The fact remains that I am not the only one who feels this way. The facts are also that other people on other boards have contacted me privately to say "right on! I agree but don't have the courage to post so" -- that sort of thing. It's the truth. I always implore them to speak their mind and exercise their freedom's, but unfortunately the PC Police have them scared to death. :(
Whether you are brave or simply opinionated is up to debate.
I am both. And modest, too ;D
I don't believe anyone here is asking anyone else to be PC. And if they disagree with you I don't think that THEY are being PC either. That's a cop-out.
Well, we'll see when (IF) anyone with a more "right slant" speaks up.
I'm listening to Michael Savage right now
Why? Another loud mouthed right winged prick. (Or isn't that PC?)
No, no -- it's perfectly okay to call a "right-winger" (and he's not; he's also an Independent, though he may have a sensible tendency to lean to the right, as I do) a "prick" -- this is completely tolerated and "A-okay" in this rapidly deteriorating culture. The word is acceptable, as is its usage specifically on "right wingers". Nobody's going to challenge you on this. It isn't PC to do so. ;D
I'm listening to O'Reilly now :D But I like Mike Savage far better -- hope for the planet, as far as I'm concerned. :)
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So we are going to be invaded and America will fall to the heathens, with beheadings for all? Yeah, I'd say it was QUITE alarmist.
And I don't think it was. What happened on 9/11/01 (and which nobody seems to care about anymore) was quite... err, ummm.. "alarming" indeed! And I believe Hussein and Iraq were a piece of the equation. So do others.
Thankfully, due to those who know we have to do whatever is necessary to defeat evil (and Sadam Hussein and Iraq are that) before they try to defeat US, no -- I don't think we'll reach a fate like that. As long as we have what everyone calls "the right". However, if Moore and other bleeding hearts from what people like to call "the left" of his type had their way, we'd sit back and wait till after the fact to do anything - and by that time, it's kind of late. "Don't wipe them out until they've tried to wipe you out first." -- Nah.
WAIT! WAIT! We didn't get around to religion yet!!!
Well, I don't know how good an idea that would be. All I know first hand is that I'm a Christian, and therefore it's also "open PC Season" on me.
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Iraq was not a threat to attack us.
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=90 date=1091561672]
And I don't think it was. What happened on 9/11/01 (and which nobody seems to care about anymore) was quite... err, ummm.. "alarming" indeed!
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Joe. YOUR opinions, YOUR standards, YOUR reality...no, sorry, they do not CREATE reality.
You think Mark Chapman's reality was as good as yours? His beliefs, because they were is beliefs, were as good as yours? I mean come on.
I realize my name can be easily substituted for yours in the same sentence, but then, that's not the only thing I am using as an argument. Your 'feelings' that to hell with the world, we got us some in Iraq is (to many) not right. It neither makes sense nor is it a justification.
Sure, as long as Saddam is gone now, great, who's for putting him back? (NOT ME!)
But he was not involved in 9/11, he was a bad man but we shot the wrong intruder. And by the laws of this country you still go to jail for that. Unless you're president.
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=91 date=1091562227]
First, I believe Iraq is related to al-Queda.
Second, even if it's not, they're still dangerous and evil, and even though I'd prefer to have seen Bin Laden captured as my Christmas gift last year instead of Saddam Hussein at this point in time, I don't feel it's a bad thing to take care of Iraq too. If Saddam was still in power, that's a very bad thing. Why worry about them? And why worry about our own soldiers if they're willing to do it, as depicted in Moore's film? *This is not to say I like any of our guys to die. The best thing would be to have no U.S. soldiers die, and for innocent civilians to be unaffected... but War is Hell (and that's not a statement "I" originated'! )
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=90 date=1091561672]
it's also "open PC Season" . [/quote]
PC man DUCK! They're headed your way!
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You seem to have an inferiority complex about being persecuted by PC's (which I've yet to see here)
What I have yet to see is support of what people like to call the "right" side. My correct views of PC come from all areas in my daily life, not exclusively this board.
but then a HUGELY massive ego over being 'right' and whathaveyou.
It's all relative. I could say the same of you, based on various Beatles threads. If having a "hugely massive ego" means I believe in myself and am passionate about my views, so be it...
I tell ya Joe...if it weren't for the Beatles we would never find ourselves sharing any quality time.
Depends. Do you talk about anything other than Beatles/politics/religion...? :)
But you are smart, you are roughly my age so you've lived some, you know Beatle stuff...so your religion and politics are redeemed by the Boys.
Hold on a minute. How is my "religion" redeemed? So far, all I've said on the subject is that I am a Christian. Is there something about being that which requires redemption?
(What? Do you think everyone in here is a Satanist or something??!!)
I don't know what you mean. No, I don't think that.
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***Nice to know that it's only you righties who are keeping our bacon safe. THAT makes sense!
I'm not an exclusive "rightie". If I were, I couldn't be Pro-Choice, now, could I? ;)
Anyhow, I don't subscribe to either "side," as I've said before. I judge each situation based on individuality.. though I do admit that as I get older and wake up more and more, my leanings do tend to veer closer to what you call "the right" than it does "the left". :)
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Joe.
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Well if thats what you believe then you're wrong.
Hey! No fair! Waitaminit -- "I'm" supposed to be the one who claims I am always right!
Do you still believe he had WMd's I mean other people believed that too? Snce we have gotten involved in Iraq, terror attacks are up.
Maybe they have never been located. Bush most likely made a mistake and was given the wrong information. Or maybe he's going after Saddam for his dad. Either way, I couldn't care less about Iraq. View the beheading videos. As for terror attacks being "up," -- nothing's happened yet (thank God). But there was 9/11 - before the war!
This war has made the American people less safe. It has diverted our attention from the War on Terror and inflamed anti-American feelings in the Muslim world. Our prescence there infuriates them, and that is dangerous.
So we're supposed to back down to them because they're angry at us? "Oh please, don't be mad at us, Mr. Muslims..." Come on. Besides, they hate us anyway. They always wanted to kill us all ANYWAY -- that's what 9/11 was about - and it occurred before the Iraq War.
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****NOTE****
This has to be my final say on this subject. Whoever wants to say anything about my feelings, please go right ahead. Insult me, compliment me, whatever you want. Agree/disagree. But I just cannot respond anymore -- not because I take back ANYTHING I've said, but because it's all futile and a waste of time. People will believe what they want anyway, and I'm already getting on Charlie's bad side, and I don't want that. It makes no sense on my end to keep constantly trying to rebut things from two or more people.
This is a Beatles Board.
So, see you there. Peace. :)
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=98 date=1091570825]
Would you have given the president your blessing if he had found and killed Osama Bin Laden BEFORE the World Trade Center was attacked, maybe having to hurt civilians and sacrifice some of our own boys BEFORE the fact? I mean, as a matter of "prevention"? Sure, it's easy with the knowledge of 9/11 to say "Yes" -- but that's only because it happened already. If there was just a "threat" but no actual execution,
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=100 date=1091571684]****NOTE****
This has to be my final say on this subject. Whoever wants to say anything about my feelings, please go right ahead. Insult me, compliment me, whatever you want. Agree/disagree. But I just cannot respond anymore -- not because I take back ANYTHING I've said, but because it's all futile and a waste of time. People will believe what they want anyway, and I'm already getting on Charlie's bad side, and I don't want that. It makes no sense on my end to keep constantly trying to rebut things from two or more people.
This is a Beatles Board.
So, see you there. Peace.
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I'd just like to chime in here for a minute and say that the Bush administration knew that Osama Bin Laden had plans to attack us months before it happened and did nothing.
And just a side note....I'm surprised that you lean so far to the right on everything else, and are pro-choice. That's usually something that only the biggest liberals lean towards.
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[quote by=Joe_Karlosi link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=99 date=1091571233]
Hey! No fair! Waitaminit -- "I'm" supposed to be the one who claims I am always right! [/quote]
Yeah sorry, I was out of line with that one. I can see tat you really believe in what you stand for and I respect that so I won't try to further provoke you. As for what you stand for...
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I'd just like to chime in here for a minute and say that the Bush administration knew that Osama Bin Laden had plans to attack us months before it happened and did nothing.
Okay, this may or may not be cheating. I promised i was done with this subject, but in all fairness to me, this is nothing "new" I'm going to say; I'm just re-quoting my previous answer in case you missed it: :)
"Would you have given the president your blessing if he had found and killed Osama Bin Laden BEFORE the World Trade Center was attacked, maybe having to hurt civilians and sacrifice some of our own boys BEFORE the fact? I mean, as a matter of "prevention"? Sure, it's easy with the knowledge of 9/11 to say "Yes" -- but that's only because it happened already. If there was just a "threat" but no actual execution, I'm sure you would have said we shouldn't have attacked him without being attacked first. Well, I don't believe in waiting to lose thousands ourselves in a tragedy first, before acting.
Would you have supported attacking the Japanese if we knew in advance theyintended to attack Pearl Harbor, before it happened? I would."
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And I'm saying yes.......as long as we knew ahead of time that an attack was going to happen. Which we did know. But you can't just attack someone for no reason. That's a war crime. And by the Geneva convention, punishible in the same way that the Nazi's were punished after WWII.
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[quote by=strutter84 link=Blah.pl?b=conversations,m=1088807857,s=106 date=1091673421]And I'm saying yes.......as long as we knew ahead of time that an attack was going to happen.
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i think the real qeustion is who do you think will win?
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I expect Bush will. The people of this country will never get their wits about them until it's too late. And even if he does lose, he can always just take over again in another coup. I hope to God that I'm dead wrong. But I just don't think the people are gonna get it till it's too damn late.