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Other forums => Current Affairs => Topic started by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 04, 2011, 06:49:10 PM

Title: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 04, 2011, 06:49:10 PM
Hello folks,

I apologise if there is already a thread with a similar discussion about various forms of animal cruelty floating around here, but I'm speaking about something that's current and happening now, so I figured I could get away with a new one.  Mods, feel free to merge me with another thread if I'm wrong.  :)
Well, it's with a very heavy heart that I'm asking you guys to take a look at something that, if it wasn't deadly important, I otherwise would really not want you to see.  I don't doubt that almost everyone on here is aware of what goes on in the realms of fox hunting in the UK, and before I begin, I must stress that I am not here to antagonise anyone here who may be in favour of fox hunting.  If you are, then I'm not going to get stroppy and pass my judgements here personally - that's not what I'm here for, I don't want an argument.  Everyone has the right to their own opinion.  I'm merely here to show people a side of fox hunting that they may not have realised was there, and hopefully give people a catalyst to act upon how they feel and change this country for the better.  Even if you are not from the UK, you can make a difference - I'll explain.

Here in the UK, fox hunting was indeed banned, but recently there has been an uproar about repealing the law so that it can carry on legally once more.  After much surveying, the local MPs of every town all over the UK gave their opinions, and a large amount were against the idea.  However, typical of our dear British government, they've decided to ignore the public's feelings, and are talking about repealing the ban anyway, to please the practitioners of this so called 'sport'.  No matter what kind of person you believe yourself to be, or whatever opinions and morals you may have, you must agree that cruel acts against both humans and animals for nothing more than sick pleasure is inhumane, right?  That's right - fox hunting is not just affecting the foxes themselves - innocent people are getting dragged into this, too.

A group against hunting has made a film compiled of homemade footage shot by ordinary people living in areas where fox hunting still takes place.  That's right - STILL takes place...  but isn't it illegal?  Yes.  What this film points out is that David Cameron himself has secretly affiliated himself with these hunters and given them permission to carry on regardless of the law, which regardless of your opinion on fox hunting, you have to admit is shameful - he's knowingly and willingly permitting illegal activities to continue.  What I'm going to post a link to isn't the full film, which shows Cameron's allegience with these people - it's a shorter trailer.  The actual film will be available soon, I think.  The footage in this trailer spells out in plain daylight what is going on within these communities, and shows not only how innocent animals are suffering because of it, but innocent people too.  Remember that fox hunting is nothing more than game - it does not provide anything for the community, it does not aid the animal kingdom - it has no purpose other than unnecessary entertainment.

WARNING:  The video at this link contains graphic footage of fox hunting in action - this includes uncensored physical violence and ultimately death where the foxes are concerned, and also strong human-on-human physical violence, which is almost what I want you to see more than the fox hunting - it's what's going on in these communities to innocent people, carried out by hunters who know what they're doing is wrong, but believe themselves to be superior to normal folk - and fight to 'prove' it.  The film also contains strong language, but to be honest, it's barely noticeable in contrast to the rest of it.  Of course, the 'shock value' of these types of films is usually the catalyst for people to stand up for what they believe in, so if you want to learn more and feel you can deal with these images, please go ahead.  However, I don't want to cause anyone upset, so if you're really badly affected by this sort of thing, feel free to skip the video.  I'm certainly not here to push this into the faces of anyone who doesn't wish to see it.  :)

Here is the link:  http://www.save-me.org.uk/we-support/ (http://www.save-me.org.uk/we-support/)

I understand that this has always been, and probably always will be a touchy subject, but Britain needs to get its collective head together once and for all - there is so much cruelty, violence, poverty and injustice in this world, and some of it is beyond our control.  But folks, animal cruelty IS under our control, and the only people who can change it is YOU.  If we all stand united, we can really make a difference.  I'm sorry for the absolute essay, but these things can rarely be done by halves.
If you'd like to make a difference, you can start right now, from the comfort of your chair;  there are many organizations that fight for the rights of our dear animals, and they all have online petitions that you can sign to announce that you're on their side.  Remember that animals cannot fight for themselves - the only voice they have is us.  We have to speak out and make sure that they're heard.

Sign a quick and easy petition here:

http://www.save-me.org.uk/petition/ (http://www.save-me.org.uk/petition/)

The organisation League Against Cruel Sports has a whole array of great information about fox hunting and many other forms of animal cruelty, including a phone number for the Hunt Crimewatch - if you live in the UK in an area where you see fox hunting still happening, you can report it.  The link is here:  http://www.league.org.uk/content/325/What-Can-You-Do- (http://www.league.org.uk/content/325/What-Can-You-Do-)
On the same website, you can make donations of any amount you like, in any currency, so people around the world, if you feel moved by this, you can contribute to our cause.  It doesn't have to be a large amount - any contribution is greatly valued, and will go towards the funding of all LACS anti-cruelty organisations and events.

If you are unsure about all this, you probably have some questions about whether fox hunting really is cruel or not - and that's perfectly understandable.  If you'd like to hear both for and against opinions, there is a section on the website of the animal rights group Save Me, set up by Brian May of Queen, who has been, and still is, very active in the field of ending animal cruelty.  There is some good information about how fox hunting affects things and opinions from both sides of the coin, as it were.  You can find this here, but the whole website is good:  http://www.save-me.org.uk/lame-claims/ (http://www.save-me.org.uk/lame-claims/)

If you're worried about coming across any more grizzly images while browsing these links, don't worry - you won't find any.  The only shocking thing posted here was the video.  All of the other links are perfectly safe to browse, so don't hesitate.

Once again, sorry for the huge post!  And I honestly do not mean to offend anyone or instigate any arguments through this; everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether we agree or not, so I'm of course not going to argue with anyone about this - we've all got our rights to freedom of speech.  Let's respect each other and keep any conversation to harmless discussion.  Please don't think of this as a big "let's all be hippies and live in a big orgy in the middle of a field with animals running all over the place and everything completely out of control" speech, folks!  It's not about that, it's a matter of human morals - if the majority of people feel that something is wrong, it should be stopped.  There's no need for unnecessary death in any place or situation.

Mods, if you find anything wrong with this thread, particularly the link to the video, please edit it in any way you see fit.

Thanks guys, all the best.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: nimrod on August 04, 2011, 11:07:50 PM
I dont live in the UK so I cant comment about it much but I am against foxhunting, cockfighting, Hair coursing, Dog fighting and Bullfighting, surely any sport that involves cruelty to animals is wrong.

I doubt though that the PM would secretly tell people that they could go on breaking the law, would he really risk his whole political career for a few upper class twits ?

If I were making a case against it I wouldnt make those allegations unless I had absolute proof that he had done that, ie a video a tape recording or a letter telling them its ok to carry on.
If they havent got such proof the people who are in favour of the sport will just accuse them of making things up to get a left wing (labour) government back in power, they will say it is politically motivated and that will destroy some credibility for the anti hunt brigade.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 05, 2011, 01:48:00 AM
I think the full film that's being released, not just the trailer I posted, has some form of evidential footage of this issue.  I haven't seen it yet, I don't think it's been released in its entirety yet.  Even if there is no evidence, it's not really the crux of the matter - if we could prove that Cameron is doing this, then it would greatly help the cause, but it's not essential.  The real issue here is morals, and whether we're prepared to stand up and fight for what's right, or lay down and take it.  I think people are scared of speaking out about these touchy subjects because not only is it very hard to be taken seriously as an animal rights supporter, it automatically puts you in a category that has a strong opposition, whether you're for or against.  People are relentlessly fighting this tug-of-war on both sides.  To be honest, I was fully expecting to log back on here and recieve a barrage of such opposition myself for posting this!!!  I certainly hope we can change the minds of the people in the right places and make sure no animal suffers unnecessarily again.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 12, 2011, 08:11:59 PM
I'm aware that this isn't exactly a popular thread, but I feel as though I should still try to catch people's attention about the things we animal lovers feel are important.

The UK government recently put the 'green light' on a project which will, over the next five years (beginning next year), cull literally thousands of badgers across the UK, in an attempt to stop the spread of bovine tuberculosis, a disease that results in the death of thousands of cows a year.  While it is true that badgers can carry bovine TB, eradicating as many of them as possible will NOT stop the spread of the disease - and certainly not cure it.  The proper solution to bovine TB is to vaccinate cows against it, and eradicate it at its source.  There is a vaccination program in development, but it won't be complete and ready for use until 2015.  The government has decided that they can't wait that long, and despite the fact that 69% of the British population expressed that they don't want the mass badger cull to go ahead, they've put it into action anyway, against the wishes of the country.  Not only this, they are permitting farmers to shoot badgers on sight, which is detrimental to the cause.  It's called perturbation effect - badgers remain in their setts and are not huge wanderers, but when shot at, they will inevitably scatter and spread to new places which they would not normally go, therefore spreading the disease further if they happen to carry it.

We believe that the badger cull is an inhumane and wreckless decision, chiefly because a huge number of the badgers in question are not carrying the disease, so we will be essentially murdering a large amount of innocent creatures, and a small amount of creatures that do carry the disease, but won't necessarily spread it if undisturbed.  It's very important to remember that science has proven that culling badgers will NOT eradicate bovine tuberculosis - it may slightly help to limit its spread, but this is not the issue.  We should focus on vaccinating our cattle to ensure that they become immune to it, and thus there will be no further concern with its potential spread.  It's true, bovine TB affects our meat and dairy industries in a strong way, but it should be dealt with by immunising and curing our cows, where the disease first manifests, and NOT by hacking down thousands of badgers who are capable of carrying it, but aren't responsible for its effect upon cattle.

If you agree with this, please feel free to sign these e-petitions.  One is for reversing the decision to cull the badgers in England, and the other is in Wales, I believe.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/6546 (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/6546)

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/6173 (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/6173)

Also, if you'd like some more information on the subject, this is a good, informative article:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/aug/11/badger-cull-dont-stop-bovine-tb?INTCMP=SRCH (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/aug/11/badger-cull-dont-stop-bovine-tb?INTCMP=SRCH)

Thanks everyone.  Please spread the word - let's eradicate animal cruelty, step by step!

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Bobber on August 13, 2011, 07:35:08 AM
I'm aware that this isn't exactly a popular thread, but I feel as though I should still try to catch people's attention about the things we animal lovers feel are important.

I did pay attention. It's terrible to see what people can do to animals. When my children had the age of not wanting to sleep in the middle of the night, I used to turn the tv on and watch Animal Planet. The series of the Animal Cops kept me awake even longer...

Good luck with the petition and everything.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Joost on August 13, 2011, 02:00:36 PM
I don't want to come off as bitter or as a pessimist, but although I'm still a convinced vegetarian I more or less gave up on trying to change people's minds about animal cruelty. Every year, nine billion (9.000.000.000) animals die in slaughterhouses in the USA alone and most people don't really care. So I don't have high hopes for masses of people manning the barrides for a few foxes or badgers...

Sorry for being a downer.  :-\
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 13, 2011, 07:27:19 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Bobber!  :)
And Joost, don't worry about it - I can completely understand.  Fighting for the rights of animals has always been a near impossible task, and there is so much pessimism because of course, as the dominant species on this planet, the human race decides whether cruelty to animals is indeed cruel at all - it's such a subjective matter.  It does seem unlikely that people will care enough to stop these things happening to creatures that are 'below us' as it were, and 'unimportant' compared to us, but I and everyone who works with these organizations are hoping that soon, the public conscience will realise that unnecessary death and suffering is unacceptable in the realm of any creature - even those that seem unimportant.  Animals may not have a voice to tell us what they feel, but that doesn't mean that they don't feel, and we are no one to bring their worlds crashing down in one swoop just because we fancy it.  We should be able to exist alongside each other in peace, the way it should be - and our government is putting these horrible projects like the badger cull into action pretty much against our wishes - like I said earlier, 69% of England didn't want it to go ahead, but they're doing it anyway.  The government need to understand that they must listen to us about these things - and it's people like us that must do it.

I know how hard and seemingly futile this is, but think about the planet - we've taken everything.  There's basically nothing on this Earth that humans haven't visited, built on, bulldozed, destroyed, poisoned or changed to suit our needs, and ours alone.  The other animals, while not possessing the same intelligence as us (apparently...), should still have total freedom to use this Earth the way they need to to survive alongside us, and we can't even grant them that - we have more than what we need, despite the fact that we struggle to manage it properly so that everyone is safe, but especially in places like England and the USA and places where when you think about it, the people have everything they need.  But a lot of animals are deprived of homes, food, safety and in so many cases, their lives, just because we feel like it, essentially.  It is not equal, and we've forgotten about it.  More and more people are re-realising this every day, and speaking out - and the governments have noticed.  They're panicking because they want to take action to end the problems, but they can't see how to do it peacefully, so they think they're doing what's best by culling, but they're not - it's our voice that has to speak for the animals.

I know it's hard, and we get so much stick for it, but if you really believe in something, you should fight for it and give it your all, otherwise, nothing would ever get done - if everyone gave up halfway through, no one would ever achieve anything.  And remember that it's not just you - us animal lovers are always here, doing our bit and sticking together, and our group is growing, believe me.  You have friends in this, and if we can make the right people realise what needs to change, we can really make a difference to animals who deserve as wonderful a life as what we've built for ourselves.  So if you believe that animal cruelty is wrong...  just say it.  And if no one listens, say it again, louder, until they have no choice but to listen.  We might not be able to save the lives of all the creatures that suffer, but if we can save thousands of badgers from being culled, or ensure that our foxes are never hunted again, or save a species from extinction...  if we can make our own vicious race realise how destructive we've become, and put that destruction to an end in some way, then it's worth it.  Who knows, it could even set the ball rolling for allsorts of wonderful changes that will benefit the world.  We just have to believe.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: In My Life on August 14, 2011, 04:39:39 AM
Quote from: Jai Guru Deva
I know it's hard, and we get so much stick for it, but if you really believe in something, you should fight for it and give it your all, otherwise, nothing would ever get done

I really admire your passion and agree with everything you've said. I live in a rural area and I always feel so badly when I see animals that have been hit because we built roads where they live. I worry about all animals but what I think about the most is dogfighting and puppy mills/pet stores. They are big issues here in the United States. I have four dogs and when I see the trust in their eyes I cannot fathom how anyone could abuse that trust. Are your petitions only for residents of England?
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Hello Goodbye on August 16, 2011, 02:33:22 AM
I do my share to help the fox.  I've been known to "accidentally" wander into a hunt when I'm out riding my horse, Mr. Governor.  A few others who ride recreationally feel the same way and we are quite effective in disruption giving the fox a chance to escape its pursuers.  When admonished by the hunters, I yell "I'm riding here!"

(http://i54.tinypic.com/1zgcjdv.jpg)


It's a lot like this scene from Midnight Cowboy...

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4e0C7wv7_vI/TifAef7DL5I/AAAAAAAADvU/rv47Wi0A9lo/imwalkinghere.jpg)

Midnight Cowboy - Im Walkin Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c412hqucHKw#noexternalembed)

 ;D
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: nimrod on August 16, 2011, 07:50:04 AM
 ha2ha

nice one Barry
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Dmitry on August 16, 2011, 12:22:11 PM
I signed the petition, Jai Guru Deva. Every time I see any cruelty to animals I cry  :'( because I can hardly  stand it. That's why I'm a vegetarian and don't want to buy a fur coat for my wife. And I completely agree with Joost! But if there wouldn't people who're fighting against cruelty, the world will be much savage.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Hello Goodbye on August 16, 2011, 04:59:37 PM
ha2ha

nice one Barry


Ya gotta do what ya gotta do in cases like this, Kevin.  It's a bit dangerous to do this as the dogs and horses out on the hunt get our horses all worked up.  I don't see the sport in fox hunting.  I'm lucky to have red fox in the wooded area where I live.  They're beautiful animals.


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/R%C3%B8d_r%C3%A6v_%28Vulpes_vulpes%29.jpg)
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 18, 2011, 06:12:26 PM
Ah, you wonderful people!  I'm so glad there are more who feel the way I do about these things.  In My Life, I'm afraid the petitions I've posted are only applicable to Britain because they're specifically about the issues going on here at the moment.  I might look into some worldwide ones soon and post them here, but in the meantime, why not have a look and post some yourself, if you fancy?  I'd be more than happy to have all of you guys join in a post relevant things regarding these matters.  The more the merrier  :)
And Hello Goodbye, bloody good on you!!!  But I must stress - and I don't want to sound like an old fart - but be careful!  I've seen some horrible violence and verbal abuse given to people who interrupt or cross paths with hunters.  But honestly, kudos to you and your friends for putting yourselves between the hoard and the fox - I bet sometimes, it's the crucial gap the poor fox needs to get away safely.  And your horse is lovely - I'm a horse obsessive, myself!  Been riding since I was eight and I just adore the creatures.

But!  News just in!  Here in the UK, one lovely lady and her co-Tories have just potentially quashed the fox-hunting ban repeal!  Here's the article:  http://www.save-me.org.uk/news/fox/article/fox_hunting_vote_killed_off_by_new_generation_of_young_urban_tory_women_opposed_to_bloodsports (http://www.save-me.org.uk/news/fox/article/fox_hunting_vote_killed_off_by_new_generation_of_young_urban_tory_women_opposed_to_bloodsports)
Basically, our latest leader only brought this particular group of MPs into the picture to give the impression that he was leading a modern government and to appeal to the public eye, but he shot himself in the foot.  This article reveals that he has personally expressed favour towards fox hunting and that he wanted the ban lifted, and a free vote would occur soon.  Since there are actually quite a few pro-hunting MPs, it was a growing concern that we would see hunting become as common and horrific as it was before - but no more!  A party known as the Blue Fox Group have expressed their opposition to the ban repeal, meaning that if such a vote was undertaken, the pro-hunting votes would certainly be outweighed - there would be no way for them to win with so many anti-hunting MPs there.  Cameron has since stated that the vote isn't such a pressing matter now, and has been shelved.  What a party!  Let's hope it stays that way!  Now, if we can just clamp down on the illegal hunts that are occurring, we could actually abolish cruelty to foxes fullstop.  What a thought, after so much struggle and worry.

Remember, if you live in the UK and you see illegal fox hunting, please report it to the Hunt Crimewatch via this link:   http://www.league.org.uk/content/325/What-Can-You-Do- (http://www.league.org.uk/content/325/What-Can-You-Do-)

Goodness, it's a strange yet exhilerating feeling to think that if we can just get our act together as a country and eradiate the illegal hunting, we and our wonderful foxes can finally breath a collective sigh of relief on this one.

I also have something to say about vegetarianism, but I think I'll leave it until I've got a bit more energy!!!  There's something about animal rights campaining that really takes it out of you!

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Hello Goodbye on August 18, 2011, 06:55:45 PM
And Hello Goodbye, bloody good on you!!!  But I must stress - and I don't want to sound like an old fart - but be careful!  I've seen some horrible violence and verbal abuse given to people who interrupt or cross paths with hunters.  But honestly, kudos to you and your friends for putting yourselves between the hoard and the fox - I bet sometimes, it's the crucial gap the poor fox needs to get away safely.  And your horse is lovely - I'm a horse obsessive, myself!  Been riding since I was eight and I just adore the creatures.


Shirli, it's just verbal abuse from the hunters and an occasional visit to the barn where I keep my horse.  I ignore what they have to say and go about my business as if they weren't there.

Thank you for your kind words regarding Mr. Governor.  He's a good boy and understands what we're doing.


(http://i54.tinypic.com/nznb7k.jpg)


(http://i54.tinypic.com/27wu39t.jpg)


Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 19, 2011, 02:05:36 AM
Ohh, now you've done it...  *goes all soft-eyed at Mr. Governor*  :D
He's wonderful!  I wish I had a horse of my own, but unfortunately the lifestyle of me and my mum, who I lived with my whole life up until leaving for university, was too much.  I did college full time and my mum worked miles away from home - and she knows practically nothing about horses.  We looked into it so many times, but it would have been impossible to juggle education, work and a horse.  The closest I got was having a horse on sort-of loan for a couple of years when I was fourteen.  He wasn't properly mine, but I got to act like it for most of the time!  *Sigh*  I certainly do miss our equine friends now I'm trapped in the grey, perpetual concrete of the city.

I was only concerned about the hunters affecting you because of what I've seen them do to others who 'interfered'...  if you haven't seen it already, take a look at the video I linked to in my first post in this thread, although I warn you, it's a shock.  It's horrible seeing just how cruel people can be when someone tries to tell them they might be wrong.

Anyway, I'm just glad that there are others like you on here that are on my side with all this - I was fully prepared for a huge backlash, braced for big arguments and p*ss-taking.  Most people just don't get it, or they think you're stupid for believing in these things.  So thanks Hello Goodbye, and everyone else, for giving it a chance and empathising.  It always seems like an endless battle, but when you come across more people who feel the same, even to the smallest degree, it always injects us with a fresh sense of hope.  :)

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 19, 2011, 03:39:08 PM
Okay, you wanted non-UK matters, and here's one now!  I've just been shown this link about live animal export from Australia, and it's not a nice sight.  If we are to eat meat, the production and therefore slaughter of the animals should be carried out in the most humane way possible, right?  An organisation called Animals Australia did an undercover investigation in an abattoir in Turkey which had recieved animals from Australia.  The Aussies seem to 'specialise', as it were, in live export, during which the animals are rounded up, suspended from the ceiling by a hind leg, and their throats slit while they are fully conscious, being left to bleed to death hanging from the roof.  This is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Here is a link to the page with the artice about this issue, which has the video displaying this horrible process in action - though the worst images have been taken out, the video is still mildly unsettling, as it shows animals in distress.  If you feel you're too sensitive to view it, just read the article and skip the video.
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/turkey-live-export-investigation/ (http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/turkey-live-export-investigation/)

On the same page, there is the facility to make your opinion known to the Australian MPs - and I believe that it caters to non-Aussies too, so please speak up if you feel moved by this.  Apparently, there has been enough public uproar against live export in Australia that it's less if a ban will occur, but when.  The local MPs just need that extra push to be convinced that it's a matter that needs to be taken action upon now, not later.  Let's put our word in and ensure that if our animals do have to die, their deaths are dignified and peaceful, not barbaric and violent.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: In My Life on August 20, 2011, 03:32:49 AM
Quote from: Jai Guru Deva
On the same page, there is the facility to make your opinion known to the Australian MPs - and I believe that it caters to non-Aussies too

I couldn't bring myself to watch the video but just reading about this sickens me. I tried to sign the petition but in spite of there being an option under "select your MP" for non-Australians I got a message later that it was only open to Australians. I hope this campaign will be successful.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 20, 2011, 04:46:11 PM
I couldn't bring myself to watch the video but just reading about this sickens me. I tried to sign the petition but in spite of there being an option under "select your MP" for non-Australians I got a message later that it was only open to Australians. I hope this campaign will be successful.

Ah, yes, I saw that, but when that notice comes up, it also gives you a link to click which allows you to drop a line about the issue through your country's Australian Embassy.  Thankfully, it seems as though the matter is being taken seriously by the Australian government, so hopefully they won't need much more convincing.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: In My Life on August 20, 2011, 06:55:21 PM
it also gives you a link to click which allows you to drop a line about the issue through your country's Australian Embassy. 


Oops! How did I not see that? I'm going to read a little more about this issue then send off an e-mail. Thanks for pointing that out!
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: nimrod on August 21, 2011, 01:01:28 AM
I dont know if people are aware that live exports were halted recently for quite a few weeks till our govmt was happy that 'humane' slaughter was adhered too in Turkey, there was a huge uproar during the ban by the rural farmers here, a lot were going bust and losing their entire livelihood, also cows (that shouldve been exported) were dying (starving) in the paddocks because the farmers couldnt afford to feed them as they had no income, some people lost everything.

The exports have now resumed.

I suppose too many people turn a blind eye to these things as the desire to eat meat is very strong generally speaking.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on August 21, 2011, 02:43:42 AM
Yes, it seems our dear human race's desire to eat meat is rather powerful.   :-X
However, if we are going to do it, it needs to be as dignified a process as possible, rather than an abusive and unnecessarily violent one during which animals suffer pointlessly for people to get a sick pleasure out of their place of power.  And thinking about it, if the animals are treated badly and their health deteriorates before they die, surely the meat that we end up eating isn't going to be of very good quality?

Anyway, here's a thought regarding meat eating.  Don't worry, I'm not piling more petitions on you!  Although if you guys do find anything relevant to it (or any of these matters) please feel free to post them up.  I'd just like to bring to your attention a couple of articles about vegetarianism and how it can change our planet for the better - not only to reduce suffering to animals, but also to preserve our planet and its ever fluctuating and fragile environment.

Here are the articles:  http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-greenhouse-hamburger (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-greenhouse-hamburger)
And here:  http://www.alternet.org/water/134650/the_startling_effects_of_going_vegetarian_for_just_one_day/ (http://www.alternet.org/water/134650/the_startling_effects_of_going_vegetarian_for_just_one_day/)

The jist of them is basically pointing out how much of an impact the production of meat for human consumption really has upon the environment.  I myself didn't realise it goes to the extent that it does before reading these articles.  Since the emphasis with meat eating is put so much upon the animals themselves, people don't really realise what's happening to the environment during the process of producing meat.  It's not merely rearing a cow, killing it and putting its meat in a packet to sell - the process is long and produces an astounding amount of greenhouse gases which affect the atmosphere to a huge degree, particularly in the production of red meats.  The articles explore the possibilities of people eating vegetarian meals for only a small amount of time, and what impact it could have.  Here's a fact from the second article that might put things into perspective:  "If every American skipped one meal of chicken per week and substituted vegetarian foods instead, the carbon dioxide savings would be the same as taking more than half a million cars off the US roads".  Half a MILLION cars!  And that's taking into account that chicken isn't as detrimental to the environment as beef, for example.  Imagine if no one ate red meat for one day alone - it would reduce our carbon emissions by a bigger percentage, and that's just one day a week.

Just a few thoughts to consider, and I feel as though I can stress this point to anyone who has a normal diet, because you're more capable of pulling this off.  Let me explain; I turned vegetarian when I was fourteen because I didn't want to eat animals anymore, and was going along quite well with it until at the age of twenty, to my dismay, I was hospitalized due to the fact that I have massive food intolerances, as well as a digestive problem, which I didn't know about, and after so many years of battling against foods I couldn't eat (although I didn't know), my body had just had enough.  I now have a completely restricted diet due to these intolerances, which although it makes me quite healthy as I can't just pig out on anything I fancy, is a great hinderance to my life.  What I'm leading up to is that even though I'm a vegetarian by moral choice, I'm now being forced to eat chicken and fish because I'm intolerant to the foods which would give me the vital nutrients I need - I really don't want to eat any form of animal, but it's not up to me anymore.

My point is that a lot of you guys will have normal dietary needs, and can therefore turn vegetarian at the drop of a hat and be perfectly fine with it - so I suppose the articles are more directed at you in a way.  Not that there's any pressure to do these things, of course!  It's just that these articles prove that going vegetarian even for only one day a week can result in a considerable drop in our carbon emissions and if enough people did it, it could really help us along the way to preserving what we can of our world that we've so sadly begun to ruin.  If you feel strongly enough about it, or are just curious, give it a go!  You'll be shocked at just how many tasty meals you can put together that don't include meat - and giving your system a break from tough meats that are hard to digest does you a world of good, so you'll be improving your health too.  Just a thought, folks.  :)

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: 7 of 13 on September 07, 2011, 07:24:27 PM
What I'm leading up to is that even though I'm a vegetarian by moral choice, I'm now being forced to eat chicken and fish because I'm intolerant to the foods which would give me the vital nutrients I need - I really don't want to eat any form of animal, but it's not up to me anymore.
you cannot be a vegetarian if you eat the flesh of animals, by definition. Sorry Jai Guru Deva i just don't buy your story about being forced to eat anything, especially the flesh of dead animals, for health reasons.

animal cruelty is uncompassionate. it is inhumane. it is sadistic. it is barbaric. it is unnecessary. it is a complete disgrace to anyone with a modicum of self-respect and humanity within them. animals should not be used for food. animals should not be used for often pointless experimentation. thank you for bringing this cruel bloodsport to our attention.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Dmitry on September 08, 2011, 05:44:26 AM
For those people who cares I recommend to see a movie `Earthlings' http://www.earthlings.com/ (http://www.earthlings.com/)
It is about animals and people, about society’s treatment of animals.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on September 08, 2011, 05:14:46 PM
you cannot be a vegetarian if you eat the flesh of animals, by definition. Sorry Jai Guru Deva i just don't buy your story about being forced to eat anything, especially the flesh of dead animals, for health reasons.

Hi there.  It's not like I WANT to eat chicken and fish - when I'm alone, I avoid it at all costs, but when my doctor and my mum catch up with me, they always make me eat some.  Trust me - I really don't want to do it, and it makes me upset, but I'm intolerant to so many foods that I can't make up the missing vital nutrients I need without eating chicken in particular, and if I just flat out refused, I would end up bedridden in hospital for the rest of my life.  I'm already in enough of a bad situation - thanks to my body's retarded manner of processing things wrong, I'll never have a pain-free day for the rest of my life.  Every single day is marred by sickness, fatigue, panic attacks and often crippling pain that leaves me bedridden for days as it is.  If I didn't eat chicken, I'd be even worse.  Believe me - I've tried to cut it out, and I manage it for a few weeks, but then my body just crashes and I'm completely useless.  It already hinders my life enough, so no matter how much I fight against eating chicken, the doctors insist that I have to, otherwise I'll be a permenant resident in hospital and I'll never regain anywhere near average health again.  And if it wasn't for the career I'm so looking forward to carving out for myself, I'd take that chance, too.  I'd rather suffer myself than to have animals suffer, but sometimes you can't help what needs to be done.  I'll always maintain my stance against animal cruelty, and despite my physical downfalls, I'll always maintain my status as a vegetarian, even though I can't always carry it out.  In the times that I'm forced into it, I just have to maintain my vegetarian status morally...  I'm sorry you don't believe me, but it's all I can do.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Mairi on September 12, 2011, 04:42:50 PM
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqehtaJluQ1qap2iko1_500.png)
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on September 12, 2011, 05:10:47 PM
Haha, if only more hunters just gave up like that.  :)
On the subject of fox hunting, a Welsh MP has now challenged the government on its decision not to hold the free vote upon repealing the hunting ban, which I mentioned a few posts ago.  He's pro-hunting, and has decided that it's the government's duty to carry out the vote, as they said they would.  Cameron shelved the vote because he would have been outnumbered, thanks to the wonderful people of the Blue Fox group who've been brought in, and he's also worried that if the ban is repealed, he will be subject to a new uproar from protesters.  Here's to hoping this Welsh MP doesn't persuade him to bring the vote back, and bring all his pro-hunting friends along.  I'll keep you posted if any more news on this arises.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 12, 2011, 05:34:18 PM
([url]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqehtaJluQ1qap2iko1_500.png[/url])


I think that fox is from New Jersey.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on September 13, 2011, 04:30:01 PM
Haha!  Judging by his attitude, it's possible!  (Not a swipe at NJ'ers)  :P

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 13, 2011, 11:17:31 PM
I'm not offended.  I'm from New Jersey and proud our reputation is known across the pond.  ;)
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on September 14, 2011, 04:38:06 PM
Oh haha!  Glad you're not offended!  Shame our British foxes aren't actually that ballsy, then they'd give the hunters a quite literal run for their money!  Now that I'd like to see  :D

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on October 01, 2011, 02:47:21 PM
For anyone interested in learning more about the badger cull tentatively looming on the horizon, here is a brand new video of Brian May on The One Show presenting a mini-documentary he has made about the cull, talking to both members of the Badger Trust and genuine farmers.  Oh, and it might amuse you to know that our poor Brian, for all his wonderful curly locks, has gone completely grey!  It is a sight to see!  :D

Brian May presents Badger Film - One Show 30 Sep 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oenp6m5C1bE#ws)

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: In My Life on October 01, 2011, 10:41:28 PM
This came in my e-mail today. Hopefully it will have the desired effect. I have known a few puppymill dogs and it's heartbreaking to see the toll which those living conditions can take.

http://action.humanesociety.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=25229.0&dlv_id=29891 (http://action.humanesociety.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=25229.0&dlv_id=29891)
Presidential Petition for Pups
Dear Friend,
The White House's official website has a new feature that allows citizens to create petitions to request the Obama Administration to take a specific action. We submitted a petition asking the President to crack down on unlicensed puppy mills by closing a loophole in the Animal Welfare Act regulations.


http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/puppy-mills/laws-that-protect-dogs.aspx (http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/puppy-mills/laws-that-protect-dogs.aspx)
The Animal Welfare Act
The Animal Welfare Act (AWA), a federal law passed in 1966, regulates certain animal activities, including commercial dog and cat breeding. The AWA defines the minimum standards of care for dogs, cats and certain other species of animals bred for commercial resale and exhibition. It also requires that certain commercial breeders be licensed and routinely inspected by the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA). However, violations regularly go unpunished, and there are innumerable loopholes and faults within the current system. For example, only animal-breeding businesses considered "wholesale" operations—those that sell animals to stores for resale—are overseen by the USDA. The AWA does not apply to facilities that sell directly to the public, including the thousands that now do so via the Internet.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on October 01, 2011, 11:29:17 PM
Thanks for that, it certainly is an important cause, and I'm sure it's something a heck of a lot of Americans will want to stand up for - a lot of people get disillusioned about animal welfare when it involves animals that are somewhat removed from everyday life, or that aren't necessarily 'cute' or 'adorable'.  But puppies - now everyone loves a puppy!  :)

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on October 19, 2011, 02:12:47 PM
Okay, here's a petition for you all to have a gander at, and it's simple to sign, and available worldwide, so you can support wherever you are.  Basically, the French government have just passed a law that dictates that children don't have the right to be vegetarian; since October 2nd, every school, public and private, across France has banned children from bringing their own lunches to school or going home in their lunch break to eat, forcing them to eat at school, where vegetarianism is not allowed.  Regardless of what the children prefer to eat, or if they have a religious or dietary need, they're forced to eat meat anyway, and if they refuse, they go hungry.  What good could possibly come from implementing this law?  Yes, there might be a health concern, as children need a balanced diet, but putting a government ban upon a child's right to freedom of choice?  That's not fair at all.  The French have essentially made vegetarianism illegal to anyone young enough to be in education, and in my opinion, it's a ridiculous concept, and a matter that's absolutely not for the French government to be dealing with - there are so many bigger problems in the world, and they're wasting their time and causing upset to people by grinding their iron fist down upon innocent children who don't like eating meat?  What a stupid thing to do.  People should have the right to choose what they eat, and just because they're children doesn't mean they're too inferior or uninformed to make that decision for themselves.  And remember the post I made previously about how dangerous the production of meat is to the environment - it's a bigger picture than just choice, too.

If you believe that children should have the right to choose what they eat, and that the illegalisation of vegetarianism in schools is wrong, please sign the petition here:
http://petition.icdv.info/en (http://petition.icdv.info/en)

Thanks, folks.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: 7 of 13 on October 19, 2011, 08:02:42 PM
For those people who cares I recommend to see a movie `Earthlings' [url]http://www.earthlings.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.earthlings.com/[/url])
It is about animals and people, about society’s treatment of animals.
thank you Dmitry. good call. i could only handle about a few minutes of it, it is a real eye-opener.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: nimrod on October 19, 2011, 09:59:51 PM
Whilst I am against blood sports Im not against people eating meat, I believe we were meant to eat meat, didnt cavemen eat Mammoths ? didnt red indians eat Buffalo, didnt aborigines eat kangaroo's ?
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: 7 of 13 on October 20, 2011, 12:58:26 AM
Bah Humbug! nimrod you of all people should know that two wrongs don't make a right.
i am definitely against bloodsports.
Paul McCartney - Meat Free Monday Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnNFryHonQo#ws)
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: nimrod on October 20, 2011, 01:01:12 AM
I already said Im against bloodsports, but not against eating meat
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: 7 of 13 on October 20, 2011, 01:20:44 AM
I already said Im against bloodsports, but not against eating meat
Whoa! mr. nimrod, that's why i said it. you should research the true history of bloodsports, it is sickening in every sense of the word. and nimrod, there are many good reasons to go vegetarian and vegan. i'm like that Moby guy now, no need to shove my veganism and my ar politics down everybodys throats. but, having said that, there is nothing subtle about eating the flesh of brutally tortured and abused farm animals.
Quote
"Most church authorities considered animal blood sports to be harmless pastimes, but this was not true of the Puritans. ([url]http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2151/History-Human-Animal-Interaction-BLOOD-SPORTS.html[/url]) The Puritans were a Christian group that wanted to change the Church of England. They took power over the British Parliament in the mid-1600s and outlawed baiting and other blood sports for a short time. One Puritan wrote, "What Christian heart can take pleasure to see one poor beast rend, tear, and kill another?" When the Puritans were thrown out of power, blood sports returned and became even more popular."

Vegan Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q#)
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Hello Goodbye on October 20, 2011, 02:47:26 AM
Dion & The Belmonts - Where Or When (Reel-To-Reel) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5sLIuGRDR0#ws)
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on October 20, 2011, 04:36:41 PM
Paul McCartney - Meat Free Monday Song ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnNFryHonQo#ws[/url])


HA!  I was already aware of Paul's 'Meat-Free Monday' scheme, but that was hilarious, especially when he went "oww!" at the end!   ha2ha
Thanks for your posts, everyone.  It's good to keep up the debates, even when they get heated at times, because it can bring out some wonderful points of view and bring to light things people maybe didn't realise.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: 7 of 13 on November 10, 2011, 10:31:01 PM
Mad Cowboy: The Documentary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mron0MTinFk#)
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on December 16, 2011, 04:04:27 PM
Well, it's with a very heavy heart that I'm reporting...  our government has officially decided that even though science disproves it as an effective method, morality deems it cruel, and the great British public have consistently voted against it, they're going to forge ahead regardless and slaughter thousands of British badgers in a futile attempt to eradicate bovine tuberculosis.  It's already been proven by science that while badgers can carry the disease, their actual responsibility of spreading it is tiny - it's actually our poor farming methods that constitute the biggest percentage of the spread. There was even a badger cull in the 80's to attempt the very same thing, and it didn't work.  In fact, the answer to controlling bovine TB is right in front of us - a vaccine that has been proven to work.  Not only that, but the British public have spoken en mass many times against this cull, through polls and interviews and protests alike - we don't want this.  But our government has decided to ignore all of this, and go ahead with the slaughter, claiming that the vaccine would be too expensive, and killing innocent creatures is the best thing to do, despite all of this opposition - even science.  It seems our current government is hell-bent on destroying animals and torturing them for fun; this is the same government that is pushing to make fox hunting, stag slaughter and hare coursing legal 'sports' again, and the same government that is also in support of using tortured animals as circus puppets.  I'm ashamed to be a part of this country, and as a 21 year old, I'm now going to have to grow up, against my own will, in a place where the suffering and death of innocent animals is officially deemed okay, even entertaining.

Here is a link to Brian May's reporting on his Save Me site, where you can find further details on this by clicking the 'news' link at the top:
http://www.save-me.org.uk/~savemee/forum/brians_threads (http://www.save-me.org.uk/~savemee/forum/brians_threads)

Keep safe, folks.  Let's hope the public can pull together one last time and do something truly spectacular - it's gonna take a heck of a stunt to turn this decision around.  I hope all of our poor oblivious badgers are enjoying their last stretch of freedom, before they're erased from our land forever.

xxx
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: In My Life on December 16, 2011, 04:50:54 PM
Quote from: Jai Guru Deva.
they're going to forge ahead regardless and slaughter thousands of British badgers in a futile attempt to eradicate bovine tuberculosis.

I'm really sorry to hear this.
Title: Re: Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)
Post by: Jai Guru Deva. on December 16, 2011, 06:34:04 PM
I'd hoped that we'd done enough...  so many people, including local MPs from all over Britain representing the people of their areas, fought and spoke passionately against the cull, and at times it was pleasantly astounding how many people stood up and agreed for a peaceful and more logical solution, but no matter how much we protested it, the government just didn't care.  I feel sorry for everyone who put all of that effort into it, too - Brian alone spent a lot of money and personal effort going out into the UK holding conferences and interviewing farmers, MPs, animal rights groups and regular members of the public to make informative and factual vidoes for people to watch, so we could better understand what was going on and how we could prevent it...  and even regardless of that, the scientific proof that the cull will NOT work has been presented to the government many times, with new research each time, and they've denied and defied it every step of the way.  It makes me sad to know that this is the body that represents British people - that other nations might look at what's happening here and think "gosh, what a barbaric country"...  it's not what we asked for.

xxx