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Beatles forums => Albums => Topic started by: Ovi on September 20, 2011, 04:47:28 PM

Title: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Ovi on September 20, 2011, 04:47:28 PM
All this talk about them being masterpieces and about Pet Sounds' influence on Sgt. Pepper's. Do you think that The Beatles actually managed to top Brian's masterpiece? They both are good, nonetheless, while Pet Sounds has better songs, Sgt. Pepper's has a better concept (if you can call it "concept"), or a better idea for an album. I also believe that both have that fluence, the songs go  perfectly together, in that specific order.Altough Beatles' intended to do that with some of them (Sgt Pepper's - With A Little Help, Good Morning - Reprise- Day In The Life).

My opinion is that "Pet Sounds" is better. I tried to do a song vs song thing (my favourite song from Pepper vs my favourite one from Pet, etc.) and Pet Sounds won by far. I like the songs better, I think they are all very very good at somehow at the same level.If you take Pepper's for example, you can't compare A Day In The Life with When I'm Sixty Four".It's not just that, but I was more blown away by Pet Sounds than by Pepper's. Anyway, I've always considered "Abbey Road" to be the masterpiece of The Beatles.

What's your opinion?
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 20, 2011, 05:20:57 PM
Pet Sounds is really great but I still prefer Sgt. Pepper's. Anyway, if you ask me, I think that Odessey And Oracle by the Zombies and Forever Changes by Love are even better than both albums.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 20, 2011, 06:19:27 PM
All this talk about them being masterpieces and about Pet Sounds' influence on Sgt. Pepper's. Do you think that The Beatles actually managed to top Brian's masterpiece? They both are good, nonetheless, while Pet Sounds has better songs, Sgt. Pepper's has a better concept (if you can call it "concept"), or a better idea for an album. I also believe that both have that fluence, the songs go  perfectly together, in that specific order.Altough Beatles' intended to do that with some of them (Sgt Pepper's - With A Little Help, Good Morning - Reprise- Day In The Life).

My opinion is that "Pet Sounds" is better. I tried to do a song vs song thing (my favourite song from Pepper vs my favourite one from Pet, etc.) and Pet Sounds won by far. I like the songs better, I think they are all very very good at somehow at the same level.If you take Pepper's for example, you can't compare A Day In The Life with When I'm Sixty Four".It's not just that, but I was more blown away by Pet Sounds than by Pepper's. Anyway, I've always considered "Abbey Road" to be the masterpiece of The Beatles.

What's your opinion?

Hi 5th Beatle! This is another interesting question. In my opinion, both the PET SOUNDS and SGT. PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND albums are masterpieces! I LOVE THEM BOTH! I feel confident that Joost will comment on this thread also. In my opinion, I don't think that it is fair to compare PET SOUNDS to SGT. PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND seeing that they are both very different style albums technology wise. Like you said 5th Beatle, it was the PET SOUNDS album that inspired THE BEATLES in recording the SGT. PEPPER'S album just like the RUBBER SOUL album influenced the PET SOUNDS album. THE BEATLES had to do one better than the PET SOUNDS album which would result in the SGT. PEPPER'S album. In my opiniion, I feel that it is more appropriate to compare both the PET SOUNDS and REVOLVER albums than to compare both the PET SOUNDS and SGT. PEPPER'S albums. PET SOUNDS was released on 16 May 1966 while REVOLVER was released on 5 August 1966. Both respective albums were released very close together. I feel that it would be more appropriate to FINALLY compare THE BEATLES SGT. PEPPER'S album with the soon to be released BEACH BOYS SMiLE SESSIONS album. Both SMiLE and SGT. PEPPER'S albums would singlehandedly utilize the same similiar type recording techniques and styles that would revolutionize the music industry forever thus turning the recording studio into an instrument. Sadly SMiLE was never released in 1966-67 in order for it to be compared to SGT. PEPPER'S thus resulting in SGT. PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND being the album that would singlehandedly change and revolutionize popular music forever. Then again, this is just my opinion. Take care 5th Beatle.       
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 20, 2011, 07:18:31 PM
Hi 5th Beatle! If I had to choose between PET SOUNDS and REVOLVER, that would be a very difficult decision for me to make. Please remember, I love the PET SOUNDS, REVOLVER, SGT. PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND and the soon-to-be released SMiLE album (SMiLE bootlegs included) DEARLY! Between PET SOUNDS and REVOLVER, I would choose REVOLVER by a fraction of an inch. Between the soon-to-be released SMiLE (Including the SMiLE bootlegs) and the SGT. PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND album, I will have to listen to the released SMiLE album (Combined with the SMiLE bootlegs) in order for me to make a fair determination. That's how close it really is. Take care 5th Beatle.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: tkitna on September 20, 2011, 07:27:08 PM
Pet Sounds is really great but I still prefer Sgt. Pepper's. Anyway, if you ask me, I think that Odessey And Oracle by the Zombies and Forever Changes by Love are even better than both albums.

Same here.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 20, 2011, 09:07:50 PM
Pet Sounds is really great but I still prefer Sgt. Pepper's. Anyway, if you ask me, I think that Odessey And Oracle by the Zombies and Forever Changes by Love are even better than both albums.

Hi Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! I'm sorry that I missed your post. I do respect your opinion very much, I do love both the "Odessey And Oracle" album by THE ZOMBIES and the "Forever Changes" album by LOVE very much! Great albums Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! If its okay with you, I would love to add the "12 Dreams Of Dr. Sardonicus" album by SPIRIT and the "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" album by IRON BUTTERFLY to your list. Led Zeppelin I & II by LED ZEPPELIN are great albums too. Take care.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 20, 2011, 09:32:50 PM
Hi Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! I'm sorry that I missed your post. I do respect your opinion very much, I do love both the "Odessey And Oracle" album by THE ZOMBIES and the "Forever Changes" album by LOVE very much! Great albums Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! If its okay with you, I would love to add the "12 Dreams Of Dr. Sardonicus" album by SPIRIT and the "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" album by IRON BUTTERFLY to your list. Led Zeppelin I & II by LED ZEPPELIN are great albums too. Take care.

I respect your opinion as well. Twelve Dreams Of Dr. Sardonicus is another album I love, though I wouldn't put it at the level of the other albums I mentioned. Have a great time.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Joost on September 20, 2011, 09:40:15 PM
All this talk about them being masterpieces and about Pet Sounds' influence on Sgt. Pepper's. Do you think that The Beatles actually managed to top Brian's masterpiece? They both are good, nonetheless, while Pet Sounds has better songs, Sgt. Pepper's has a better concept (if you can call it "concept"), or a better idea for an album. I also believe that both have that fluence, the songs go  perfectly together, in that specific order.Altough Beatles' intended to do that with some of them (Sgt Pepper's - With A Little Help, Good Morning - Reprise- Day In The Life).

My opinion is that "Pet Sounds" is better. I tried to do a song vs song thing (my favourite song from Pepper vs my favourite one from Pet, etc.) and Pet Sounds won by far. I like the songs better, I think they are all very very good at somehow at the same level.If you take Pepper's for example, you can't compare A Day In The Life with When I'm Sixty Four".It's not just that, but I was more blown away by Pet Sounds than by Pepper's. Anyway, I've always considered "Abbey Road" to be the masterpiece of The Beatles.

What's your opinion?

That's an easy question for me. I like 'Pepper' a lot, but still, the song vs. song thing: 'Pet Sounds' wins 13-0...

By the way, I don't agree with you that 'Pepper' has a better concept. What is the concept of that album anyway? If you leave out 'Sloop John B.' (which was included for commercial reasons, it was originally a stand alone single) and obviously the two instrumentals, than 'Pet Sounds' does have a lyrical concept. Every song describes the protagonist's feelings before, during or after an intense relationship. By shuffling the songs, you can even create some kind of a logical storyline.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 20, 2011, 09:43:16 PM
I respect your opinion as well. Twelve Dreams Of Dr. Sardonicus is another album I love, though I wouldn't put it at the level of the other albums I mentioned. Have a great time.

I respect your opinion Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! I not only want to add "Twelve Dreams Of Dr. Sardonicus" to the list, I even want to add PINK FLOYD'S "The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn" and "Saucerful Of Secrets" albums to the lists. What do you think of PINK FLOYD'S albums Hombre_de_ningun_lugar? Take care.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 20, 2011, 10:16:27 PM
By the way, I don't agree with you that 'Pepper' has a better concept. What is the concept of that album anyway? If you leave out 'Sloop John B.' (which was included for commercial reasons, it was originally a stand alone single) and obviously the two instrumentals, than 'Pet Sounds' does have a lyrical concept. Every song describes the protagonist's feelings before, during or after an intense relationship. By shuffling the songs, you can even create some kind of a logical storyline.

I agree. Actually Pet Sounds is said to be the first concept album, though that has mostly to do with its musical consistency and string of introspective lyrics. And then there're those barkings ("pet sounds") at the end of "Caroline No"; do you think that was intentionally done thinking of the album title?
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 20, 2011, 10:30:18 PM
I respect your opinion Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! I not only want to add "Twelve Dreams Of Dr. Sardonicus" to the list, I even want to add PINK FLOYD'S "The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn" and "Saucerful Of Secrets" albums to the lists. What do you think of PINK FLOYD'S albums Hombre_de_ningun_lugar? Take care.

I must say that I'm not a fan of Pink Floyd. Maybe it's too serious music for me. But I like The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, especially the first 3 tracks.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 20, 2011, 11:22:02 PM
I must say that I'm not a fan of Pink Floyd. Maybe it's too serious music for me. But I like The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, especially the first 3 tracks.

You're not a fan of PINK FLOYD? How can that be? That's okay my friend, I still respect your opinions. Have you ever heard PINK FLOYD'S "Meddle (1971)" and "The Dark Side Of The Moon (1973) albums? These are both GREAT albums! Both of these albums are masterpieces! Take care. 
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: nimrod on September 20, 2011, 11:23:21 PM
as this seems to have developed into a 'which album is better than Pepper' thread Id like to comment, I love all the albums mentioned but IMO none of them come close to Pepper, of course I am a fan primarily of The Beatles and their work for me tops all others, I dont have the same depth of feeling for albums by other bands that I have for my favourite band so it would be impossible for me to say that another bands album is better than my favourite 4 Beatle albums .......Pepper is the greatest album ever made , it is the most celebrated and important album by the most celebrated and most important band of all time, yes I like Love Forever Changes and Pet Sounds and of course I can accept that some people think they are better albums but for me musically they are not as good, I put 5 Beatle albums as the best ever made, then the rest start queueing up behind them..

As a package IMO the non Beatles album that comes closest to Pepper with strength of songs, variation and the x factor that sends you on a journey is Dark Side Of The Moon, also the fact that these two albums sell well 40 years later says a lot.

Its all art though.....and art is subjective, Yes ?
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 20, 2011, 11:50:58 PM
as this seems to have developed into a 'which album is better than Pepper' thread Id like to comment, I love all the albums mentioned but IMO none of them come close to Pepper, of course I am a fan primarily of The Beatles and their work for me tops all others, I dont have the same depth of feeling for albums by other bands that I have for my favourite band so it would be impossible for me to say that another bands album is better than my favourite 4 Beatle albums .......Pepper is the greatest album ever made , it is the most celebrated and important album by the most celebrated and most important band of all time, yes I like Love Forever Changes and Pet Sounds and of course I can accept that some people think they are better albums but for me musically they are not as good, I put 5 Beatle albums as the best ever made, then the rest start queueing up behind them..

As a package IMO the non Beatles album that comes closest to Pepper with strength of songs, variation and the x factor that sends you on a journey is Dark Side Of The Moon, also the fact that these two albums sell well 40 years later says a lot.

Its all art though.....and art is subjective, Yes ?

How's it going nimrod? I hope all is well with you. In my opinion, the ONLY album that would top THE BEATLES' "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band " (Advanced studio technology wise) would be PINK FLOYD'S "The Dark Side Of The Moon." It would take years before Sgt. Pepper's would be topped. What's even more interesting is that Alan Parsons would play a very important role during the recordings of both the "Sgt. Pepper's and "The Dark Side Of The Moon" albums. Parsons assisted Geoff Emerick during the studio engineering of the "Sgt. Pepper's album as well as engineered "The Dark Side Of The Moon" album." nimrod, I take it that you have heard the "I Robot" album (1977) by THE ALAN PARSONS PROJECT? What do you think of that album? In my opinion, I think that the "I Robot" album is also a masterpiece! In my opinion, "I Robot" sounds like a typical PINK FLOYD album. Take care nimrod.     
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 21, 2011, 01:44:40 AM
You're not a fan of PINK FLOYD? How can that be? That's okay my friend, I still respect your opinions. Have you ever heard PINK FLOYD'S "Meddle (1971)" and "The Dark Side Of The Moon (1973) albums? These are both GREAT albums! Both of these albums are masterpieces! Take care.

I think I've heard Meddle once, but honestly I don't remember it. I'm more familiar with The Dark Side Of The Moon, I may have heard it three times, and I can see why it's so loved, but I guess it's not my kind of music. Pink Floyd took themselves very seriously, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but my kind of music is more simple and innocent, that's why all my very favourite bands came to the scene before Sgt. Pepper's was released.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 21, 2011, 01:50:08 AM
as this seems to have developed into a 'which album is better than Pepper' thread Id like to comment, I love all the albums mentioned but IMO none of them come close to Pepper, of course I am a fan primarily of The Beatles and their work for me tops all others, I dont have the same depth of feeling for albums by other bands that I have for my favourite band so it would be impossible for me to say that another bands album is better than my favourite 4 Beatle albums .......Pepper is the greatest album ever made , it is the most celebrated and important album by the most celebrated and most important band of all time, yes I like Love Forever Changes and Pet Sounds and of course I can accept that some people think they are better albums but for me musically they are not as good, I put 5 Beatle albums as the best ever made, then the rest start queueing up behind them..

As a package IMO the non Beatles album that comes closest to Pepper with strength of songs, variation and the x factor that sends you on a journey is Dark Side Of The Moon, also the fact that these two albums sell well 40 years later says a lot.

Its all art though.....and art is subjective, Yes ?

In my case there're not many non-Beatles albums that I would put over Sgt. Pepper's, just those I've mentioned and maybe Who's Next and Let It Bleed. Anyway, my very favourite albums by anybody still are Rubber Soul and Revolver.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 21, 2011, 01:53:09 AM
I think I've heard Meddle once, but honestly I don't remember it. I'm more familiar with The Dark Side Of The Moon, I may have heard it three times, and I can see why it's so loved, but I guess it's not my kind of music. Pink Floyd took themselves very seriously, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but my kind of music is more simple and innocent, that's why all my very favourite bands came to the scene before Sgt. Pepper's was released.

Hi Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! That's fair enough my friend! Believe it or not, you are not alone. I know many music fans that either do not like or cannot get into PINK FLOYD'S music. I respect everyone's views and opinions on their musical preferences, that's the beauty of it all and the only way to be. Take care my friend.       
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 21, 2011, 01:55:50 AM
In my case there're not many non-Beatles albums that I would put over Sgt. Pepper's, just those I've mentioned and maybe Who's Next and Let It Bleed. Anyway, my very favourite albums by anybody still are Rubber Soul and Revolver.

Great choices!
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: nimrod on September 21, 2011, 03:26:08 AM
How's it going nimrod? I hope all is well with you. In my opinion, the ONLY album that would top THE BEATLES' "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band " (Advanced studio technology wise) would be PINK FLOYD'S "The Dark Side Of The Moon." It would take years before Sgt. Pepper's would be topped. What's even more interesting is that Alan Parsons would play a very important role during the recordings of both the "Sgt. Pepper's and "The Dark Side Of The Moon" albums. Parsons assisted Geoff Emerick during the studio engineering of the "Sgt. Pepper's album as well as engineered "The Dark Side Of The Moon" album." nimrod, I take it that you have heard the "I Robot" album (1977) by THE ALAN PARSONS PROJECT? What do you think of that album? In my opinion, I think that the "I Robot" album is also a masterpiece! In my opinion, "I Robot" sounds like a typical PINK FLOYD album. Take care nimrod.     

Im very well thanks mate  :)

Im not a massive fan of Floyd, in fact I dont like some of their albums like Meddle, Saucerful etc I never got into that SpaceProg groove where they would jam on Gminor for 25 minutes looking like they were tripping on acid but DSOTM is class, its what made them massive probably the 3rd biggest band ever in terms of album sales and huge concert crowds, even now they could fill any football stadium 2 or 3 nights.
Yes I like I Robot but probably not as much as you, very much a studio project, I prefer bands like King Crimson or Yes who could play their albums live and really kick ass, are you familiar with the German Pink Floyd......Eloy, they made some great Floydian style albums, sometimes better than Floyd  ;D
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 21, 2011, 03:47:09 AM
Im very well thanks mate  :)

Im not a massive fan of Floyd, in fact I dont like some of their albums like Meddle, Saucerful etc I never got into that SpaceProg groove where they would jam on Gminor for 25 minutes looking like they were tripping on acid but DSOTM is class, its what made them massive probably the 3rd biggest band ever in terms of album sales and huge concert crowds, even now they could fill any football stadium 2 or 3 nights.
Yes I like I Robot but probably not as much as you, very much a studio project, I prefer bands like King Crimson or Yes who could play their albums live and really kick ass, are you familiar with the German Pink Floyd......Eloy, they made some great Floydian style albums, sometimes better than Floyd  ;D

I've heard of the Australian Pink Floyd and German Pink Floyd but I've never heard their music. I'm going to have to check them out. Thanks for the info mate and take care.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 21, 2011, 04:05:53 AM
even now they could fill any football stadium 2 or 3 nights.

In fact Roger Waters sold out 8 consecutive nights at the biggest football stadium in Argentina for his "The Wall" show when he'll come next year.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 21, 2011, 05:08:43 AM
Hi Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! That's fair enough my friend! Believe it or not, you are not alone. I know many music fans that either do not like or cannot get into PINK FLOYD'S music. I respect everyone's views and opinions on their musical preferences, that's the beauty of it all and the only way to be. Take care my friend.     

I ackownledge Pink Floyd greatness, they're not just my cup of tea. Have a great time.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Klang on September 21, 2011, 05:30:35 AM

Like Brian Wilson, I am confused by any such comparisons. Apples and oranges.

 ;)

Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: nimrod on September 21, 2011, 05:40:04 AM
I've heard of the Australian Pink Floyd and German Pink Floyd but I've never heard their music. I'm going to have to check them out. Thanks for the info mate and take care.



Welcome to Eloy, Ive been a fan for over 20 years..theyre not a tribute band but a band that has made many albums over 30 years of their own material


Eloy - Poseidon's Creation - PART I. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xytcCjPoHLQ#)

ELOY - The Sun Song (Live 1977) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbNGYqLXvXk#)
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: peterbell1 on September 21, 2011, 09:51:04 AM
As someone has already said, it does seem unfair to compare Pet Sounds with Sgt Pepper, since Pepper was recorded a whole year later.
Pet Sounds was being recorded around the same time as the Beatles were working on Revolver, so it would make more sense to compare Pet Sounds with Revolver and Sgt Pepper with Smile.

Anyway, if I was being sent to a desert island and could only take one album with me - either Pet Sounds or Revolver - I would choose Revolver.
But if the choice was between Pet Sounds and Pepper then I'd go for Pet Sounds.

I think both the Beatles albums I mentioned are a bit more instantly accessible than Pet Sounds. Most of the songs on Revolver or Pepper stand up really well on their own - you could hear any of the songs from those albums on the radio and most of them wouldn't sound out of place. Maybe only Tomorrow Never Knows, A Day In The Life and Within You Without You are a bit too "weird" for the radio or to be released as singles.

On the other hand, the magic of Pet Sounds comes from repeated listening, and also from hearing the album in its entirety. There is so much going on in the instrumentation, the harmonies, the lyrics, the arrangements, etc - it is impossible to take it all in on your first listen. Pet Sounds for me improves every time I hear it!! And apart from Wouldn't It Be Nice, Sloop John B, and perhaps God Only Knows, the Pet Sounds songs wouldn't come across so well if you heard them separately on the radio. I think most of them work much better when listened to as an album.

I think what I'm trying to say is that you have to work a little to appreciate Pet Sounds, whereas The Beatles are much more immediate.

I hope that all makes sense.  ;D

It's all down to individual taste at the end of the day, but it's interesting to see other people's opinions on some of rock music's greatest ever albums.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 21, 2011, 10:05:16 AM
I ackownledge Pink Floyd greatness, they're not just my cup of tea. Have a great time.

You're doing great my friend! Take care.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 21, 2011, 10:07:55 AM
As someone has already said, it does seem unfair to compare Pet Sounds with Sgt Pepper, since Pepper was recorded a whole year later.
Pet Sounds was being recorded around the same time as the Beatles were working on Revolver, so it would make more sense to compare Pet Sounds with Revolver and Sgt Pepper with Smile.

Anyway, if I was being sent to a desert island and could only take one album with me - either Pet Sounds or Revolver - I would choose Revolver.
But if the choice was between Pet Sounds and Pepper then I'd go for Pet Sounds.

I think both the Beatles albums I mentioned are a bit more instantly accessible than Pet Sounds. Most of the songs on Revolver or Pepper stand up really well on their own - you could hear any of the songs from those albums on the radio and most of them wouldn't sound out of place. Maybe only Tomorrow Never Knows, A Day In The Life and Within You Without You are a bit too "weird" for the radio or to be released as singles.

On the other hand, the magic of Pet Sounds comes from repeated listening, and also from hearing the album in its entirety. There is so much going on in the instrumentation, the harmonies, the lyrics, the arrangements, etc - it is impossible to take it all in on your first listen. Pet Sounds for me improves every time I hear it!! And apart from Wouldn't It Be Nice, Sloop John B, and perhaps God Only Knows, the Pet Sounds songs wouldn't come across so well if you heard them separately on the radio. I think most of them work much better when listened to as an album.

I think what I'm trying to say is that you have to work a little to appreciate Pet Sounds, whereas The Beatles are much more immediate.

I hope that all makes sense.  ;D

It's all down to individual taste at the end of the day, but it's interesting to see other people's opinions on some of rock music's greatest ever albums.

How's it going peterbell1? I hope all is well with you. I couldn't have said it better myself, take care.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Joost on September 21, 2011, 11:46:08 AM
I agree. Actually Pet Sounds is said to be the first concept album, though that has mostly to do with its musical consistency and string of introspective lyrics. And then there're those barkings ("pet sounds") at the end of "Caroline No"; do you think that was intentionally done thinking of the album title?

'Pet Sounds' wasn't the first concept album, it wasn't even The Beach Boys' first concept album. That would've been 'Little Deuce Coupe' from 1963, which (minus the song 'Be True to Your School') was entirely about cars.

The title 'Pet Sounds' was inspired by the dog barking (those are Brian's own dogs, Banana & Louie) and not the other way around.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: tkitna on September 21, 2011, 12:28:02 PM
Lets just all agree that 'SF Sorrow' by The Pretty Things is the greatest album out of all that were mentioned and we'll move on.  ;D
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Ovi on September 21, 2011, 12:30:05 PM
That's an easy question for me. I like 'Pepper' a lot, but still, the song vs. song thing: 'Pet Sounds' wins 13-0...


Same here.
That's an easy question for me. I like 'Pepper' a lot, but still, the song vs. song thing: 'Pet Sounds' wins 13-0...

By the way, I don't agree with you that 'Pepper' has a better concept. What is the concept of that album anyway? If you leave out 'Sloop John B.' (which was included for commercial reasons, it was originally a stand alone single) and obviously the two instrumentals, than 'Pet Sounds' does have a lyrical concept. Every song describes the protagonist's feelings before, during or after an intense relationship. By shuffling the songs, you can even create some kind of a logical storyline.

Pepper's concept was intented, all Paul's idea. Was Pet Sounds' concept intended? And I may be wrong but wasn't "I Konw There's and Answer" about drugs? and "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" about the way Brian felt during that time, considering that the rest of the band gave him a hard time? Again, I may be wrong but that's just what I understand from the lyrics.I'm not saying that a concept makes an album automatically better, I was just trying to point out some pros for each albums. And, in my opinion, Pepper has a more original idea, the whole thing about them being Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. It's not a complicated one, and it was not developed much during the album, but it is intresting and it sure inspired latter bands (such as Pink Floyd) to develope more the whole "concept" thing.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 21, 2011, 02:27:53 PM
'Pet Sounds' wasn't the first concept album, it wasn't even The Beach Boys' first concept album. That would've been 'Little Deuce Coupe' from 1963, which (minus the song 'Be True to Your School') was entirely about cars.

Well, a "concept album" may be a vague definition. I think it doesn't depend only on the theme of the lyrics (you could say that an album full of love songs is a concept album then), but it also depends on musical integrity. Strictly talking, the first pure concept albums in rock music would be rock operas such as S.F. Sorrow, Tommy and Arthur.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Toejam on September 21, 2011, 02:42:00 PM
I don't like Pet sounds. I respect it but the lyrics are awful. Who want's to listen to songs about adolecents and Brian being emotionally retarded. I don't like putting it like that but I just hate those lyrics. Sgt. pepper is the complete opposite. It's lyrics are cool and arty for adults. One thing I did notice though earlier this year when I was listening to Pet sounds to re-familiarise myself with it was how much Pepper's production seems to resemble it. I think as Apple computers laywers might put it Pepper matches the 'look and feel' of Pet sounds and w/e else we can say Pepper would have sounded very different without Pet sounds. I'm convinced of that now. Another thing I've never quite understood that I've remebered reading some of the posts in this thread. Why did Brian Wilson feel so knocked out by Rubber soul. It wasn't really an advance musically from the early Beatles years. Apart from the Sitar on Norwegian wood was there anything on Rubber soul that hadn't been done before. The songs are just as straightfowardly recorded as they were on all the other albums. For me the major change in the Rubber Soul songs were the lyrics for some of the songs like Nowhere man,DRive my car & the Word which were all mmore cool and arty and grown up than anything they'd done before but it's still got stuff like You won't see me & Run for your life & George's songs which just sound like they could have been written and recorded any time before then...Wait actually was recoreded during the Help sessions! So why did Brian feel it was such a radical leap forward musicaly? i don't think it was.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Joost on September 21, 2011, 05:10:26 PM
Who want's to listen to songs about adolecents and Brian being emotionally retarded.
I think that a whole lot of people can relate to at least some of the lyrics. And who doesn't want to listen to lyrics that he or she can relate to? And I wouldn't say that the songs are about anyone being emotionally "retarded". Just searching and insecure.

Why did Brian Wilson feel so knocked out by Rubber soul.
Brian didn't feel knocked out. Just inspired. Back when it came out, 'Rubber Soul' was quite a unique album. It was one of the very first pop LP's that was an artistic statement on it's own, rather than just a collection of singles and filler material. That was quite revolutionary, actually. Before 'Rubber Soul', pop music was all about hit singles, after 'Rubber Soul', albums became more important. So basically pop music really started maturing with 'Rubber Soul'.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: peterbell1 on September 21, 2011, 05:36:14 PM
I don't like Pet sounds. I respect it but the lyrics are awful. Who want's to listen to songs about adolecents and Brian being emotionally retarded.


Pet Sounds contains some of my favourite lyrics ever (and Paul McCartney's for that matter!) .....

Beach Boys - God Only Knows - Acapella (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkDjDUaDU-0#)
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Toejam on September 21, 2011, 05:43:05 PM
That was quite revolutionary, actually. Before 'Rubber Soul', pop music was all about hit singles, after 'Rubber Soul', albums became more important. So basically pop music really started maturing with 'Rubber Soul'.

The Beatles always said themeselves and I think a lot of other people think that With the beatles was the album which first showed that albums were a proper collection of songs rather than hit singles and filler.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Joost on September 21, 2011, 05:54:56 PM
The Beatles always said themeselves and I think a lot of other people think that With the beatles was the album which first showed that albums were a proper collection of songs rather than hit singles and filler.

Then why does it have six cover songs?
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Gary910 on September 21, 2011, 06:02:59 PM
Here we go again with comparing...

I agree with much of what Peter Bell says. I don't think you can really compare these albums. I hated Pet Sounds for a long time. I couldn't get through it, until I decided I was going to figure out what was great about it... I got it. Now, I have to say it is a favorite of mine. Favorite over any Beatles album? NO!!!

How can you really even compare one album against another? The only way you really could do it would be in the following situation...

Band "A" records a great album (great in the aspect that many enjoy it). Band "B" decides they want to record the same songs and put their interpretation into those songs. Band "C" does the same thing as Band "B". You can not compare Band "B" or "C" to Band "A". Band "A" is the originator and nothing compares to them because they did it first. You could compare Band "B" and Band "C" albums because they are derivative, and attempting to accomplish the same thing, an interpretation of Band "A" album.

Pet Sounds, Rubber Soul, Revolver, and Sgt. Pepper were all trying to accomplish different things. Four albums, four different purposes. None was trying to sound like the other. Brian Wilson has plainly stated that Rubber Soul (American Version) is what influenced him. Paul McCartney has said that Pet Sounds influenced him. They wanted to make something (with their respective bands) that would be more ground breaking than the previous. Brian wasn't trying to do a "new" Rubber Soul, as Paul was not trying to do a "new" Pet Sounds.

Maybe a better way of putting this would be "Which do you prefer?"

Do yourself a favor enjoy each on the own merits. If you don't like one or the other, sit down, un-distracted (with no other noise, book, magazine, telephone, computer, etc.) and listen, maybe with headphones, and figure out why each album is so good. Yeah, figure it out. It make even take some work. You won't regret it.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Joost on September 21, 2011, 06:23:38 PM
Now, I have to say it is a favorite of mine. Favorite over any Beatles album? NO!!!
How can you really even compare one album against another?

I think you're contradicting yourself here. You can't prefer one album over another without comparing them, right?

Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 21, 2011, 06:29:49 PM
Here we go again with comparing...

I agree with much of what Peter Bell says. I don't think you can really compare these albums. I hated Pet Sounds for a long time. I couldn't get through it, until I decided I was going to figure out what was great about it... I got it. Now, I have to say it is a favorite of mine. Favorite over any Beatles album? NO!!!

How can you really even compare one album against another? The only way you really could do it would be in the following situation...

Band "A" records a great album (great in the aspect that many enjoy it). Band "B" decides they want to record the same songs and put their interpretation into those songs. Band "C" does the same thing as Band "B". You can not compare Band "B" or "C" to Band "A". Band "A" is the originator and nothing compares to them because they did it first. You could compare Band "B" and Band "C" albums because they are derivative, and attempting to accomplish the same thing, an interpretation of Band "A" album.

Pet Sounds, Rubber Soul, Revolver, and Sgt. Pepper were all trying to accomplish different things. Four albums, four different purposes. None was trying to sound like the other. Brian Wilson has plainly stated that Rubber Soul (American Version) is what influenced him. Paul McCartney has said that Pet Sounds influenced him. They wanted to make something (with their respective bands) that would be more ground breaking than the previous. Brian wasn't trying to do a "new" Rubber Soul, as Paul was not trying to do a "new" Pet Sounds.

Maybe a better way of putting this would be "Which do you prefer?"

Do yourself a favor enjoy each on the own merits. If you don't like one or the other, sit down, un-distracted (with no other noise, book, magazine, telephone, computer, etc.) and listen, maybe with headphones, and figure out why each album is so good. Yeah, figure it out. It make even take some work. You won't regret it.

I don't see why you can't compare albums, you can acknowledge the inventive merits on one side and judge the final result alone on the other side. Which do you prefer or which do you think is better tend to be the same question.

About music influences that defined the 1960's rock we could also include the Byrds, as Rubber Soul was heavily influenced by their debut record Mr. Tambourine Man, which in turn was influenced by the 12-string guitar used in A Hard Day's Night.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Gary910 on September 21, 2011, 07:18:08 PM
I think you're contradicting yourself here. You can't prefer one album over another without comparing them, right?

Interesting question... What I mean is that you feel more comfortable, or enjoy listening. That is different from looking at the artistic merit. For example, I think some of Picasso's paintings are hard to look at. I don't enjoy it. Does that mean that they are no good? I don't think so. Sometimes art that is hard to look at, hear, watch is very good art. Do I think that some other artist's painting is better because I identify or find it easier to look at? No, that is not understanding art. Art is subjective.

A album that is hard to listen to, and maybe not what I identify with, does not mean I think it is no good. Or on the converse, I think one that I do identify with or find easy to listen to is necessarily good, or better than one I don't identify with. Some of it has to do with having an open mind towards art.

As I said, I hated Pet Sounds for years after buying it. I only bought it because Paul McCartney said it was a good album. What Paul McCartney says is good, must be, was my reasoning. I didn't appreciate Pet Sounds. Was it a bad album, because I didn't understand it. I don't think so.

I prefer "such and such" album is lighter. "Such and Such" an album sucks is opinionated and closed minded. I prefer "X" album means I like it and enjoy it over "Z" album.

I don't know if I have made myself any clearer... probably not.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 21, 2011, 09:00:20 PM

Welcome to Eloy, Ive been a fan for over 20 years..theyre not a tribute band but a band that has made many albums over 30 years of their own material


Eloy - Poseidon's Creation - PART I. ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xytcCjPoHLQ#[/url])

ELOY - The Sun Song (Live 1977) ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbNGYqLXvXk#[/url])


Hi mate! I LOVE ELOY! They do sound a lot like PINK FLOYD! In my opinion, the drummer that ELOY has is a lot better than Nick Mason. Take care mate. 
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Mairi on September 21, 2011, 09:29:42 PM
I have to totally disagree with those who have said that the lyrical content of Pet Sounds is adolescent. It's one of the most mature, honest albums ever made. As for Sgt. Pepper, I love it too, but for different reasons. Mostly because it's so musically appealing to me. But to say that Pet Sounds is immature is just preposterous to me.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 21, 2011, 10:37:52 PM
As we're discussing about the greatest albums, I'd like to share my Top 20 list.

1. Rubber Soul (The Beatles)
2. Revolver (The Beatles)
3. Odessey And Oracle (The Zombies)
4. Forever Changes (Love)
5. Who's Next (The Who)
6. Let It Bleed (The Rolling Stones)
7. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (The Beatles)
8. Surrealistic Pillow (Jefferson Airplane)
9. Younger Than Yesterday (The Byrds)
10. Abbey Road (The Beatles)
11. Pet Sounds (The Beach Boys)
12. Tommy (The Who)
13. Sticky Fingers (The Rolling Stones)
14. Mr. Tambourine Man (The Byrds)
15. The Village Green Preservation Society (The Kinks)
16. Arthur (The Kinks)
17. The Doors (The Doors)
18. White Album (The Beatles)
19. Beggars Banquet (The Rolling Stones)
20. The Who Sell Out (The Who)
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: nimrod on September 21, 2011, 10:59:28 PM
Here we go again with comparing...

I agree with much of what Peter Bell says. I don't think you can really compare these albums. I hated Pet Sounds for a long time. I couldn't get through it, until I decided I was going to figure out what was great about it... I got it. Now, I have to say it is a favorite of mine. Favorite over any Beatles album? NO!!!

How can you really even compare one album against another? The only way you really could do it would be in the following situation...

Band "A" records a great album (great in the aspect that many enjoy it). Band "B" decides they want to record the same songs and put their interpretation into those songs. Band "C" does the same thing as Band "B". You can not compare Band "B" or "C" to Band "A". Band "A" is the originator and nothing compares to them because they did it first. You could compare Band "B" and Band "C" albums because they are derivative, and attempting to accomplish the same thing, an interpretation of Band "A" album.

Pet Sounds, Rubber Soul, Revolver, and Sgt. Pepper were all trying to accomplish different things. Four albums, four different purposes. None was trying to sound like the other. Brian Wilson has plainly stated that Rubber Soul (American Version) is what influenced him. Paul McCartney has said that Pet Sounds influenced him. They wanted to make something (with their respective bands) that would be more ground breaking than the previous. Brian wasn't trying to do a "new" Rubber Soul, as Paul was not trying to do a "new" Pet Sounds.

Maybe a better way of putting this would be "Which do you prefer?"

Do yourself a favor enjoy each on the own merits. If you don't like one or the other, sit down, un-distracted (with no other noise, book, magazine, telephone, computer, etc.) and listen, maybe with headphones, and figure out why each album is so good. Yeah, figure it out. It make even take some work. You won't regret it.

very good post gary, I agree with you  ;yes

(so do Bands A, B & C)  ha2ha
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Toejam on September 21, 2011, 11:25:28 PM
Then why does it have six cover songs?

Well  It didn't have any singles on it and I guess the covers are high quality rather than fillers.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: tkitna on September 22, 2011, 12:23:12 AM
Well  It didn't have any singles on it and I guess the covers are high quality rather than fillers.

I cant share your opinions about the quality of the covers.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: nimrod on September 22, 2011, 01:11:15 AM
I cant share your opinions about the quality of the covers.

I thought the Pepper cover was best, especially as it was the first ever with lyrics  ha2ha
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: peterbell1 on September 23, 2011, 03:40:40 PM
As we're discussing about the greatest albums, I'd like to share my Top 20 list.

1. Rubber Soul (The Beatles)
2. Revolver (The Beatles)
3. Odessey And Oracle (The Zombies)
4. Forever Changes (Love)
5. Who's Next (The Who)
6. Let It Bleed (The Rolling Stones)
7. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (The Beatles)
8. Surrealistic Pillow (Jefferson Airplane)
9. Younger Than Yesterday (The Byrds)
10. Abbey Road (The Beatles)
11. Pet Sounds (The Beach Boys)
12. Tommy (The Who)
13. Sticky Fingers (The Rolling Stones)
14. Mr. Tambourine Man (The Byrds)
15. The Village Green Preservation Society (The Kinks)
16. Arthur (The Kinks)
17. The Doors (The Doors)
18. White Album (The Beatles)
19. Beggars Banquet (The Rolling Stones)
20. The Who Sell Out (The Who)

A very nice list!
Great to see the two Kinks albums on there - I would have both of those in my favourites list as well.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 23, 2011, 05:49:55 PM
A very nice list!
Great to see the two Kinks albums on there - I would have both of those in my favourites list as well.

I'm glad that you liked the list. I love the Kinks, they're one of my Top 5 favourite bands.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 23, 2011, 08:32:17 PM
I'm glad that you liked the list. I love the Kinks, they're one of my Top 5 favourite bands.

What's happening Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! How's the day treating you today? I love THE KINKS also! In my opinion, Ray Davies should rank as one of the all-time greatest frontmen Rock n' Roll ever produced. Hey, where's LOLA VERSUS POWERMAN AND THE MONEYGOROUND PART ONE album on your list? I love the song "Lola!" Do you know what the song "Lola" is about? Its a true story too. Take care.
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 23, 2011, 08:50:23 PM
What's happening Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! How's the day treating you today? I love THE KINKS also! In my opinion, Ray Davies should rank as one of the all-time greatest frontmen Rock n' Roll ever produced. Hey, where's LOLA VERSUS POWERMAN AND THE MONEYGOROUND PART ONE album on your list? I love the song "Lola!" Do you know what the song "Lola" is about? Its a true story too. Take care.

Hi BeatlesForever, my day is great, thanks for asking, and yours?

I know "Lola" is about transvestism (!), what else can you add?

The album Lola may be somewhere in my Top 50 list, I think. I can give you my Top 6 Kinks albums list if you want to:

1. The Village Green Preservation Society
2. Arthur
3. Something Else
4. Lola
5. Face To Face
6. Muswell Hillbillies
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 23, 2011, 09:07:50 PM
Hi BeatlesForever, my day is great, thanks for asking, and yours?

I know "Lola" is about transvestism (!), what else can you add?

The album Lola may be somewhere in my Top 50 list, I think. I can give you my Top 6 Kinks albums list if you want to:

1. The Village Green Preservation Society
2. Arthur
3. Something Else
4. Lola
5. Face To Face
6. Muswell Hillbillies

My day is going great on my day off, thanks for asking. I also have Saturday and Sunday off so its a three day weekend for me. Great list Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! What else can I add to the story of "Lola?" The song pretty much tells the story. THE KINKS and the roadie went to a bar in Soho and the roadie fell for a girl that was really a man. The band laughed their a*s off so much, that Ray Davies decided to write a song about it. What do you know? Take care.   
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 23, 2011, 09:51:11 PM
My day is going great on my day off, thanks for asking. I also have Saturday and Sunday off so its a three day weekend for me. Great list Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! What else can I add to the story of "Lola?" The song pretty much tells the story. THE KINKS and the roadie went to a bar in Soho and the roadie fell for a girl that was really a man. The band laughed their a*s off so much, that Ray Davies decided to write a song about it. What do you know? Take care.   

Well, I didn't know it was a true story. Thanks for the info!

By the way, the album title "Lola vs. Powerman and the Moneygoround" doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?
Title: Re: Sgt. Pepper's vs Pet Sounds
Post by: BeatlesForever on September 23, 2011, 10:03:02 PM
Well, I didn't know it was a true story. Thanks for the info!

By the way, the album title "Lola vs. Powerman and the Moneygoround" doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

Oh yeah, its a true story indeed! Ray Davies must have been on a drug binge when he came up with the title LOLA VS. POWERMAN AND THE MONEYGOROUND for their 1970 album. The music world should make an animated cartoon based on the album title and Lola, that should be interesting. Take care.