DM's Beatles forums
Other music forums => Various Artists, Lyrics, Discographies => Topic started by: Wayne L. on December 15, 2004, 01:08:11 PM
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The classic concert documentary The Last Waltz with the Band, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton & Neil Young is one of the most overrated rock documentaries of all time in part because Martin Scorcese directed it which is is why it's overpraised even though it has some great live performances by the Band playing Up On Cripple Creek, Eric Clapton playing Further Up On The Road & Bob Dylan playing Baby Let Me Follow You Down but Let It Be, Gimme Shelter, Woodstock & The Song Remains The Same are a whole lot better!
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gimme shelter and the song remains the same werent that good. the last waltz rules. they played in on public tv last night
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I love the 'Last Waltz'. Whats there not to like with that concert?
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I don't like the emmylou harris bit, and sometimes i fast forward through Coyote, even though its a good song.
More Ringo is needed too!
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Lol, 'Coyote' is probably my favorite Joni Mitchell tune ever. I like Emmylou too. Different tastes are wonderful.
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i think dylan ruins it 4 me..............
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2 songs man, and theyre good too.
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Dylan ruins it?? No way! I love his songs. He sounds pretty good too! But to each his own I guess! I always FF through Joni Mitchell, I like her, but not that song and FORGET Neil Diamond! Eww. The best parts though are when it's just the guys doing their own stuff. I LOVE Levon Helm's voice and cannot stop listening to The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down!! I taped it obviously. I had never seen the entire concert before! This is how stupid I was, I thought it was Robbie Robertson singing all these years!! DUH! Why is it that I know him but not the other guys? Did he do something in the 80's that was popular or something? ;D Sorry for the rambling!
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i like the 2 performance of Ringo
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[quote by=Maccalvr link=Blah.pl?b=othermusic,m=1103116091,s=7 date=1103610674]Dylan ruins it?? No way! I love his songs. He sounds pretty good too! But to each his own I guess! I always FF through Joni Mitchell, I like her, but not that song and FORGET Neil Diamond! Eww. The best parts though are when it's just the guys doing their own stuff. I LOVE Levon Helm's voice and cannot stop listening to The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down!! I taped it obviously. I had never seen the entire concert before! This is how stupid I was, I thought it was Robbie Robertson singing all these years!! DUH! Why is it that I know him but not the other guys? Did he do something in the 80's that was popular or something? ;D Sorry for the rambling! [/quote]
we love your ramblings......feel free to ramble on anytime.
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;D Okay!
Anyway, at least I use punctuation. I think that helps.
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Robbie RObertson was the most well known member, as he wrote all the tunes and played lead guitar. However the singing was done by Helm, Rick Danko, and Jerry manuel. I hate nearly all of Neil DIamonds songs, but I thought the one he did here was ok. My favorite Levon Helm singing is done on Dylans song When I Paint My Masterpiece. Terrific. I notice that Cingular has started using their most famous song "The Weight" in one of their ads, and therefore I've been hearing it among friends recently. They have no idea who sings it, but its always interesting to see songs be resurrected by commercials. The Stones with you Cant Always get What You want on the Coke ads, and the Who with their CSI trilogy, all experience similar things. Anyway I love the Band, great tunes.
Lord I was born a rambling man....
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[quote by=pc31 link=Blah.pl?b=othermusic,m=1103116091,s=5 date=1103370352]i think dylan ruins it 4 me..............[/quote]
I dont, I love the "Forever Young" peformance
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Your ramblings always make such good sense though! Anyway, I guess that's how I knew of Robbie Robertson. He's the main guy. I had no idea who the rest were. Levon Helm is an actor too I think! Well, that's what my friend told me. Wonder what he was in??
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I love Jerry Manuel's voice. His most notable vocals are The Shape I'm In and Tears of Rage. One of my favorite parts of the band is their ability to blend their three singers, my favorite instance being the one verse sung by Rick Danko in The Weigh, the verse about Jack my dog. As for Levon Helm's acting.he has appeared in such projects as Coal Miner's Daughter, The Best Revenge, The Right Stuff, The Dollmaker (TV film), and even an episode of Seven Brides For Seven Brothers.
(http://theband.hiof.no/band_pictures/modern_drummer_LevonHelm.jpg)
(http://theband.hiof.no/band_pictures/helm_98_member_shadow.jpg)
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Okay, he has not aged well at all. He looks 100. Maybe it's the lack of beard though. I wonder how his voice sounds. I remeber him in Coal Miners Daughter now! He was the father. I just bought a cd of The Band from Amazon. I can't wait to hear it. I only know the three songs they play on the radio! And all of them are sung primarily by Levon. Danko sounds completely different on the recorded version of the Weight then when he does it on the concert. I can't believe the other guy killed himselft. That's SAD!!
Robbie looks pretty good for his age. I think.
(http://www.naaf.ca/rec2003/robbie-robertson.jpg)
(http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Music/9907/06/robbie.robertson.wb/robertson.jpg)
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Which cd did you buy? Greatest hits? Pink? Band?
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Greatest hits. I'm too cheap to buy the two seperate until I see of I actually like them.
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Thats a pretty good compilation if its the same one i have. 18 tracks, nicely selected
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I also bought the DVD of the Last Waltz. It's supposed to have extras. I wonder what though.
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perhaps it will have Ringo actually performing a song, instead of backup drumming. I've always suspected that he performed but it got edited. I dont own the dvd though so youll have to let me know
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That would be cool. They show Ringo for about five seconds in the movie. What's the point! I think they show Clapton doing another song. And Joni Mitchell and Neil Young doing a song together. I forget what else.
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maybe ron wood will get a little more screen time too!
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Meh, that's okay. What the heck was he even doing there in the first place??? Was he already a Rolling Stone at that time?
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yeah i think he might have left at that point
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I'm pretty sure it's Richard Manuel, not Jerry. And if you want a real rock-n-roll read, check out Levon's autobiography "This Wheel's on Fire." Seems like he ain't too happy with Robertson.
I think the first two albums (Pink and the brown album) or Rock of Ages are the best place to start with The Band. I like Last Waltz, okay, (see what Levon has to say about it) but it's like the third or fourth time they've released some of these songs so it's wearing a little thin.
Neil Diamond was in the show because Robbie was producing him at the time (and had produced Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark). It's a shame they couldn't have given Ringo a legitimate song to sing (like A Little Help from my Friends) instead of the last minute shuck-a-jive. I also wish they'd done one of Neil's rocking songs from On the Beach (on which Danko and Levon played), instead of the ole folky whiner.
For me Van definitely stole the show. He made all the rest of the guests seem like amateurs (except of course for Muddy Waters and Clapton, who blew Robbie out of the water on "Further on up the Road"). I wish Van and the Band had recorded a whole live album together.
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Very true Adam. And yeah I always mess up Manuels name cause theres a former manager of a baseball team named Jerry Manuel. I just mix the name up. Anyway, I also think Van stole the show with that intense performance of Caravan. But I did like the song Neil Diamond played, Robertson cowrote it too. As for Levon Helm, I loved his book and I thought it was hilarious how he seems so gleeful over the fact that Robbies mike wasnt on for the concert, cause his singings so bad.
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I like how Levon in his book manages to let it "slip" that although he's a short man he's well endowed.
Still from the pictures above of Robertson there's either some bad plastic surgery or alien abduction.
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yeah he looks kinda like somebody who should be on Little House on the Prairie
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Huh?? I think he looks pretty good for a guy who's almost 60! Better than most of his peers anyway. Ah well. And if his mike was off during the concert, than how come I can hear him? I think Levon must be a little bitter or something.
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first off, robbie remixed nearly all the concert, as he wasnt happy with the recording. second, youre probably hearing the other backing singers, such as danko or manuel, which the camera is raarely on. And yes Levon was bitter, because the only one who was so commited to the finality of the Last Waltz was Robbie, mainly becasue his creativity was running out. The others wanted to keep going and later reformed without him.
I like the story of how Ronnie Hawkins, after attending the premiere, stood up in the theater and shouted, "That was good, but it could have used some more shots of Robbie!"
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Yes I'm hearing them, but I hear Robbie too. Like when he says things like "yeah" and so on. You know, when he gets into the song. I'm just saying that's what I heard. If his mike was off it was off. I don't really know the history of the band, so I don't get the sudden Robbie bashing. I mean he wrote all the songs didn't he? Who cares if he couldn't sing as well as the others. They wouldn't have anything to sing if he didn't write it in the first place.
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But did he "write" the songs? Did he write Garth Hudson's intro to "Chest Fever"? Did he write all the lyrics to "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down"?
Manuel wrote and co-wrote some great songs on the first two albums. 'Lonesome Suzie" and "Tears of Rage" (lyrics by Dylan). The problem, as least according to Levon, came when Robbie became the self-appointed "genius" of the group and moved away from the "workshop" method of writing to sole authorship. Sound a little bit like Pink Floyd, doesn't it.
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Yeah it does. But I know a lot more about Roger's ego trip than Robbie's! I thought he was the primary song writer of the Band. I think if the others were equal in song writing abilities they could have gone on without him more succesfully than they did. Sort of like Floyd again. Although post Waters Floyd did pretty well! Anyway, it seems the Band sort of fell apart without Robbie. But that's my very limited opinion. I really have very little knowledge of them. But I'm willing to learn!
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Yeah in the beginning, Robbie was the main lyric source, but they pretty much all pitched in, musically and lyrically. But near the end of their days he viewed himself as the sole creative source of the Band, when it was their collective sound that attracted most people. He wanted a big farewell for the Band, yet the rest of them wanted to keep going, but he ended it. Althought they later reformed, after the finality of The Last Waltz it was hard for them to get respect again. Manuel later killed himself and many blame Robbie's behavior in control of the band for it.
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Well said. And then Robbie turns around and writes that "Angel" song for Manuel. He's a real Kee-mo-sa-be.
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yup. Well im not saying he's all bad, but there were definately problems near the end. He did write and play some awesome songs
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I don't think Robbie had anything to do with Manuel's suicide. I think an issue with depression is usually the factor. Most people don't kill themselves because they're p*ssed off at some guy. I think you have to be mentally ill to actually do that. Not that people don't think of it, especially teenagers who have fluctuating emotions, but a grown man? I think he probably needed help. But to blame Robbie? He just left his band that's all. Like so many others. I think Levon's side of the story should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Levon doesnt claim that Robbie caused Manuels suicide. Some people do. The collapse of the Band doubtless had a large impact on Manuels life and contributed to his depression. Its a pity. But youre right to take Helm's story with a grain of salt, as he was very bitter.
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Right. I wasn't thinking Levon would actually say that. But I think his bitterness contributes to creating a poor image for Robbie. I don't know the circumstances behind Manuel's death, but I know it was many years later and he was touring with the other guys. How bad could life have been? Why do so many band break up with such bitterness!!!! I don't get it. Can't they just move on without all that crap.
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money, it's a hit
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Don
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Uh, I hope people know I'm quoting there.
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lol people would think you were nasty if they didnt know the song
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Heh, that's why I had to clarify! We're not all Floyd fans around here!
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who aint a floyd fan? point em out
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Mr. Charlie. I'll pick him since he's not around here to defend himself anymore.
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I wouldn't blame Robbie for Manuel's suicide. Manuel had a long history of addiction and self-destructive behavior. He hung himself by a belt (I think) from a motel shower-curtain-bar. (How that managed to hold is amazing to me--he must have been near passed out drunk). So the story's pretty pathetic.
And I guess from Levon's p.o.v. (Levon being one of the first people to discover Manuel's body) the question would be: why are we playing these chump-change gigs when we used to play coliseums? Again, not Robbie's fault.
I just think there's some questions about Robbie writing that "Angel" song when he didn't seem concerned to do too much to help Manuel and the rest out when they were sinking lower and lower. Again, not Robbie's job.
But it does make it kinda hard to like him.
Even though I love his songs.
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But what was he supposed to do if he didn't want to be a part of the group anymore? If Paul hung himself after John left would we blame John? I don't get what else Robbie could have done except rejoin them. They could have gone on and did other things in a new band instead of continuing as The Band.
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=othermusic,m=1103116091,s=1 date=1103150141]gimme shelter and the song remains the same werent that good.
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Gimme Shelter & The Song Remains The Same are 100% better than The Last Waltz anytime.
never
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[quote by=Usher_Masher link=Blah.pl?b=othermusic,m=1103116091,s=50 date=1105804746]Gimme Shelter & The Song Remains The Same are 100% better than The Last Waltz anytime.
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The Music and the atmosphere is better
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[quote by=Usher_Masher link=Blah.pl?b=othermusic,m=1103116091,s=52 date=1105805099]The Music and the atmosphere is better[/quote]
The classic performances by Neil Young, Eric Clapton, Bob Dylan & the Band are great but TLW is highly overrated as a concert documentary by movie critics & some classic rock fans but GS & TSRTS are a whole lot better.
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Kids are alright is better than TLWaltz....but its not a concert documnetary
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[quote by=TurnMeOnDeadman link=Blah.pl?b=othermusic,m=1103116091,s=54 date=1105810329]Kids are alright is better than TLWaltz....but its not a concert documnetary[/quote]
I agree.
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[quote by=TurnMeOnDeadman link=Blah.pl?b=othermusic,m=1103116091,s=54 date=1105810329]Kids are alright is better than TLWaltz....but its not a concert documnetary[/quote]
Yes I agree, but I maintain that TLW beats GS and the song remains the same.
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[quote by=Herecomesyoursun link=Blah.pl?b=othermusic,m=1103116091,s=56 date=1105830991]
Yes I agree, but I maintain that TLW beats GS and the song remains the same.
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Maccalvr: I agree. Robbie ain't to blame for Manuel's suicide. But you need to read Levon's book (which I don't think Robertson has ever publicly disputed) re. the corporate decision to "kill" The Band (and effectively prevent the others from continuing as an entity). I wish the Band had had found another great singer-songwriter to write songs for them. Or a team of songwriters. Or do albums with specific artists. Like Van Morrison and the Band (much like Van's album with the Chieftains). The closest they came to that was Neil Young's On the Beach--which has some badass drumming and bassplaying. One song left over from the sessions was included on Neil's Hawks and Doves and is really eerie, weird and great. Can't remember the title off the top of my head. But it shows what might have been . . . .
I guess what I find frustrating (and what Levon complains about) is that this great musical unit was shut down (for a big payday which never materialized and a supposed movie career for Robbie--notice how "made up" he looks in the film compared to the other guys? Especially with that disco-stu scarf. I'm glad he wasn't wearing that on the cover of the brown album). Ironically, Levon had a bigger career as an actor than Robbie--and I think he did it just to spite him.
Can you imagine writing for voices like Levon, Rick and Richard? And having Garth Hudson around to tinker with atmosphere. That's what seems like a crazy no-brainer to me. Personally, I think Robbie was written out by about 1971 and only wrote a couple of great songs after that. I don't care much for his overproduced 80s stuff. The Band's 90s stuff (even without Richard) has a lot more bounce. Too bad they didn't do a whole album of John Hiatt's stuff . . . .
Oh well, enough rant.
Wayne L. , I like your topics.
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Yeah they would have been sweet collaborating with Van, if he could stay with the more rock side rather than some of his more Lord is good efforts.
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I think Danko and Levon and Manuel also played on that Clapton album (with one with the real guitar pick, I think) from the mid-70s. The one that had the song "All the Past Times" or something like that. I need to recheck that album out.
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[quote by=adamzero link=Blah.pl?b=othermusic,m=1103116091,s=60 date=1106278237]I think Danko and Levon and Manuel also played on that Clapton album (with one with the real guitar pick, I think) from the mid-70s.
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Thanks. I always wanted to pull that guitar pick off when I was a kid.