DM's Beatles forums
Solo forums => George Harrison => Topic started by: Kevin on February 23, 2008, 02:37:31 PM
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Today I listened to this album for the first time in it's entirety since probably the seventies. I was determined to listen to it "without prejudice" with my new grownup ears.
First - it's good. Sometimes very good. But a double album is hard for any act to carry off, and the strain does show here and there. I think too Mr Spectre deserves as much credit as Our Kid does. He really layers it on (too much??) but sometimes he needs to bury Georges weedy voice (sorry) or make a dreary melody a bit more interesting. (I would give examples, but I'm in The British Library and can't remember which song is which now.) Occassionaly I think the credit should have read "Phil Spectre featuring George Harrison."
It has some great moments - though it suffers from George's overt seriousness. He rarely sounds like he's having fun, and that has a detrimental effect (to me at least.) A fine effort, but I can see why Lennon and McCartney weren't too keen on some of the songs. Mr Spectre - take a bow. You made mountains out of George's ideas.
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It can get very heavy going at times. I don't think it's as great as it was made out to be at the time, more unexpected. I think no-one expected George to come out with so much good material. Personally I prefer Living In The Material World, though that's even more serious.
The re-issued version from a few years ago was de-Spectored to a degree, though it still bears the unmistakable mark of Phil. It's difficult to see how most of these songs could have slotted in on a Beatles album, which is presumably why George's songs were often vetoed.
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I think the credit should have read "Phil Spectre featuring George Harrison."
*takes Kevin out back and beats him bloody with a two-by-four*
Sorry, I have only so much patience! ;D *smacks you again*
Well, everyone has their taste. You think these songs were molehills. Okay. No one has to like all the Beatles songs or all of their solo work. George's solo work is my favorite of the ex-Beatles and he accomplishes this because he brings so much of himself and his philosophy to his music. I don't want mindless chatter; I want something that is a lovely melody, beautifully orchestrated, and makes me think. Not much, I know, but I'm fussy. And based on this, Bing! George wins. (For me. You of course can prefer whatever music you like to listen to in your own home.)
Just because you got me curious, I did my own "overt seriousness" hunt on ATMP:
"I'd Have You Anytime" - sweet love song
"My Sweet Lord"
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I listened to a bit more over the weekend and have softened a bit. Perhaps I was trying too hard to find the negative. It doesn't really have a bad tune on it, and most are superb.
Perhaps the greatest acid test - I played this while my non-Beatle girlfriend and I were playing scrabble (another glimpse into my rock and roll life style) and it caught her attention and she wants a copy. That has NEVER happened before.
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Yeah Kev, its a good one. I dont think its overrated one bit. It is the best solo effort period.
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Yay! Thanks, Tkitna. I would agree with you about it being the best solo effort, except I haven't yet listened to the other ex-Beatles' complete catalog. There might be one lurking out there that I'd like better, but the ATMP album had the same effect on me that it had on Kevin's girlfriend: must... own!!! And I still love it.
Kevin, I'm glad you listened again and found things to like. Life can be so overwhelming, it's a pleasure to find new things to enjoy. I'll put away my two-by-four and instead send you and your gf a nice bottle of wine. Thanks for being patient with me. :)
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Yay! Thanks, Tkitna. I would agree with you about it being the best solo effort, except I haven't yet listened to the other ex-Beatles' complete catalog. There might be one lurking out there that I'd like better, but the ATMP album had the same effect on me that it had on Kevin's girlfriend: must... own!!! And I still love it.
It doesnt matter if you've heard all the other solo albums or not (trust me), this one is better. I love 'RAM' and it's probably my favorite solo album from them, but 'ATMP' is better. (if you can understand that)
The album has no weaknesses. Its a 5 star production in my book.
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I have only started really listening to George in the past few years ,and altough i had All Things Must Pass it was'nt played regular .
But since i started buying and playing his music more , i most say i really love him , he's different and his voice is very honest to my ears .
Unlike John and Paul in the 70's he did his own thing , and was'nt fussed about been an ex Beatle he just seemed to get on making music which seems pretty timeless and interesting :)
All Things Must Pass and Thirty Three And A Third are as good as the best of John and Paul's solo albums , i get as much out of them as i do from Ram , Venus And Mars , Imagine and Walls and Bridges :)
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Kevin, I'm glad you listened again and found things to like. Life can be so overwhelming, it's a pleasure to find new things to enjoy. I'll put away my two-by-four and instead send you and your gf a nice bottle of wine. Thanks for being patient with me. :)
You're thanking me? I was in jerk mode - I went looking for faults, and if I couldn't find them then I might as well make them up. It's not my best trait I'm afraid. My girlfriend likes to refer to me as a "pretentious tosser". But then, am I to blame that a university trained school teacher can play scrabble but claim to have never heard words such as "opine" and "id", but has the temerity to try and slip past "quo?" I ask you - sometimes my life is nothing but the suffering of fools.
You're an angel Mairi.
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Well, I was feeling a bit guilty about the two-by-four remark-- it didn't seem very welcoming of other people's views. But since it produced such a fine apology, I think I'll drag it out more often. ;D
The album has no weaknesses. Its a 5 star production in my book.
Thanks, Tk. I think so, too. Not only are the songs all varied and interesting, the sound varies from spare to lush. It's tough for me to get tired of this album, because there's so much to choose from. It's a very mature offering, with a lot of thoughtfulness and craft behind it, but also fresh because, well, it was Georgie's first, and he wanted to do a good job. And did he. :)
since i started buying and playing his music more , i most say i really love him , he's different and his voice is very honest to my ears .
He's addicting, isn't he? My list of enjoyable albums is long, because there are at least one or two wonderful songs on each, so I'll sometimes play those if not the whole thing. I haven't warmed up as well to Extra Texture, but I'm playing it today, and I'm struck by how sad many of the songs are. This guy truly wore his heart on his sleeve. You can call it foolish; it left him open to a lot of grief. But he was combining music with his search for personal development, and that's a kind of courage and honesty that resonates with me.
*gives DaveRam and Tkitna a nice box of chocolates*
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All Things Must Pass is really, really good album. I love the feeling on it. I think the Spector's wall of sound" + George's vocal and guitar play made of this a exquisitely melancholic album, full of beautiful melodies, good rockers... but specially gorgeous sad ballads.
"Let It Roll", "Beware of Darkness", "If Not For You" (good for Zimmerman ;D ), "ATMP", "Hear Me Lord"... those are all eternal favourites.
The only thing I can get is the Apple Jam... I can't listen to that. I don't know. Jams are not my style, so long and boring. Someday I gonna give him another opportunity. :)
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the apple jam is always what ruined All Things Must Pass for me. :-/
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I have a Love/Hate relationship with this album... i absolutely LOVE these songs.. i absolutely HATE the production.. Wall of Sound works for Mono.. not for stereo.. and i will never forgive Spector for recording the effects directly to master.. that is a sin an absolute sin... when i watched Awaiting on you All in the Concert for Bangladesh i was so elated to hear this track but wait, i had heard it, under a layer of mud on ATMP... so i try my hardest now to get bootlegs live versions anything to compile something close to an enjoyable package.. it's a shame too that so many of these great songs have to be really held back by the sound of the time.. and one that was already on it's way out.. so many great performances throughout.. Ringo, Pete Drake's slide guitar, Eric, the first Dylan/Harrison tunes so and some real potential classics almost ruined..
As for the apple jams i enjoy em as a musician but it's almost like it's not part of the album just a little bonus that came out of recording for as long as they did.
I just think it's sad that nothing can be done to save these songs.
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the apple jam is always what ruined All Things Must Pass for me. :-/
I don't see how one song can ruin a whole album for you. If you don't like a song, skip it. :)
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I liked hearing your viewpoint, Bungalow Bill. It's funny, because Kevin started a thread by saying he loved the production and thought it was the best thing about the album. I have to say, I adore the power of the songs as well. Clearly this is a labor of love.
I'd like to hear some bootlegs without the heavy production as well. Do you know where I can get a mono version? Cheers.
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I'd like to hear some bootlegs without the heavy production as well. Do you know where I can get a mono version? Cheers.
Check out a bootleg called Beware of ABCKO! It's the demos for ATMP. Info at Bootlegzone. Not sure that a proper mono mix of ATMP was ever made, although fold-downs could well exist.
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Clearly this is a labor of love.
I think this statement really hits it perfectly.. i think these songs as well as Living in the Material world really show George saying what he needed to say with so much love and so much passion. I have felt for a long time that if the production interferes with the message whatsoever then it's the worst thing that can be done.. There are tracks on the album where Spector's production certainly helped but i think George would have benefitted largely from a more sparse production more like that of The Band's Big Pink album... It's these songs that need to last not the style in which they were recorded.
I'd like to hear some bootlegs without the heavy production as well. Do you know where I can get a mono version? Cheers
Check out a bootleg called Beware of ABCKO!
Totally agree. Art of Dying is very good as well.. with some cool tracks like Cosmic Empire, and Gopala Krishna. don't know about a mono mix
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Check out a bootleg called Beware of ABCKO! It's the demos for ATMP. Info at Bootlegzone. Not sure that a proper mono mix of ATMP was ever made, although fold-downs could well exist.
I doubt that there's a mono mix at all. You could attempt to make your own if you have the software. But then all you'd get is a mono version of the stereo version, and not a mono mix.
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Beware of ABCKO! can be found here:
http://juliocmail.blogspot.com/2008/03/george-harrison-live-beware-of-abkco.html
I hope I'm not violating any forum rules....
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im not sure i get what the big deal is with mono mixes. In this day and age where we have pristine remasters of some of this stuff why the interest in mono? Surely thats a backwards step? We have two ears not one so to my mind that means that a remixed remastered stereo mix must sound nicer than a crusty old mono mix. no?
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WHY THE INTEREST IN MONO!! Surely you jest!
We have two ears not one
MOST OF US DO... we don't know harihead maybe only one ear
remixed remastered stereo mix must sound nicer than a crusty old mono mix
Must it now.... well that's debatable... and how would it develop a crust MaccaLennon if that is your real name...
hahahah in all seriousness i'm not sure the big appeal
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i've got Beware of ABCKO, it's fantastic. there's something very special about those
demos. they should have been put on the re-issue of ATMP i think! :)
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WHY THE INTEREST IN MONO!! Surely you jest!
MOST OF US DO... we don't know harihead maybe only one ear
Must it now.... well that's debatable... and how would it develop a crust MaccaLennon if that is your real name...
hahahah in all seriousness i'm not sure the big appeal
Well that post completely confused me?
harihead????
yes its my real name of course it is. the name i was born with and its a small l actually
yes its debatable thats why im debating it
but yeah thanks for your input ! Anyone else enlighten me?
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Because mono was the sound of the sixties and the way it was mixed in. There's differences in the mono and stereo mixes of the Beatles albums. BlueMeanie is your expert in these matters.
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but by 1970 (ATMP) they were mixing directly into stereo weren't they? I get that the early albums have forced stereo mixes and therefore arent true stereo but by then they were making natural stereo recordings i thought.
It kind of sounds a bit like inverted snobbery to me. What i mean is stereo is far more natural sound, its how we hear things in everyday life. And besides from what i understand, you cant hear true mono as it should be on a 2 speaker hi fithat we all have now so unless you have such a player isnt forced mono the same mess as forced stereo?
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but by 1970 (ATMP) they were mixing directly into stereo weren't they? I get that the early albums have forced stereo mixes and therefore arent true stereo but by then they were making natural stereo recordings i thought.
It kind of sounds a bit like inverted snobbery to me. What i mean is stereo is far more natural sound, its how we hear things in everyday life. And besides from what i understand, you cant hear true mono as it should be on a 2 speaker hi fithat we all have now so unless you have such a player isnt forced mono the same mess as forced stereo?
Forced mono is basically a 'fold down'. You can get the effect by flicking the mono switch on the hi-fi whilst playing a stereo recording. Sounds like crap.
I imagine that by 'forced stereo', you mean some of the crap that Capitol released in 63, and 64. Given a set of mono masters they contrived to produce a kind of faux stereo. I've heard bootleggers do it better! The later released stereo stuff in the UK, is mixed for stereo. I'm unaware if the Capitol Albums boxed sets were remixed properly for stereo, or if they're the original mixes. Whatever, they sound awful.
At least with 'forced stereo' you get to hear everything, though not necessarily in the ear that it was intended! Fold downs into mono just sound dreadful, but a good mono mix can be a revelation. Try listening to the mono version of Sgt. Pepper.
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As a footnote, it is extremely unlikely that the word mono was ever uttered while the ATMP master tapes were in earshot.
Having said that, The Beatles themselves were very big fans of mono, not seeing the point in stereo. As far as I'm aware, it wasn't until they recorded 'Abbey Road' that they dropped mono.
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Check out a bootleg called Beware of ABCKO! It's the demos for ATMP. Info at Bootlegzone. Not sure that a proper mono mix of ATMP was ever made, although fold-downs could well exist.
I just purchased a mono CD of All Things Nust Pass on the Japanese Mid Valley label. It should arrive in a week and I will post when I get it as to what it sounds like.
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I just purchased a mono CD of All Things Nust Pass on the Japanese Mid Valley label. It should arrive in a week and I will post when I get it as to what it sounds like.
Mid Valley is a bootleg label. And as far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong) there was never a mono mix made from the ATMP masters. I can see no reason why they would have made one at the time, as stereo was by then, far and away the chosen sound choice. This means that Mid Valley have probably taken a very good quality stereo vinyl, and made the mono mix from that. It's a waste of time.
You'd be better off getting your hands on the Dr. Ebbett's ATMP.
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see all the discussion we get from a silly post
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Because mono was the sound of the sixties and the way it was mixed in. There's differences in the mono and stereo mixes of the Beatles albums. BlueMeanie is your expert in these matters.
I agree. They were made to be listened to in mono. If some hack at The Louvre made a 3D Mona Liza in a bigger size, with enhanced colouring and greater depth ("it's how Leonardo would have wanted it if he had access to digital laser technology") I think most art buffs would still prefer the old flat original. It was how it was supposed to be seen.
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Ooh, nice analogy, Kevin!
Thanks for the ABKCO tip, Geoff. I enjoyed all the discussion.
MOST OF US DO... we don't know harihead maybe only one ear
*weeps* Yes, you have penetrated my secret. I have only one ear. It was ripped off by a crazed fan during a Beatles revival. I try to hide my disfigurement under long hair. Probably this impairs my ability to hear any music properly, whether mono or stereo. *crawls away in shame*
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see all the discussion we get from a silly post
That's why I like this forum.
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Check out a bootleg called Beware of ABCKO! It's the demos for ATMP. Info at Bootlegzone. Not sure that a proper mono mix of ATMP was ever made, although fold-downs could well exist.
hi
i read that the new boot of all things must pass is a needle drop............surely it never appeared on vinyl in mono???
i know obscure mono albums do turn up in places like peru but..........................
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hi
i read that the new boot of all things must pass is a needle drop............surely it never appeared on vinyl in mono???
i know obscure mono albums do turn up in places like peru but..........................
Some mono mixes of demo's are available on stuff like 'Songs For Patti', but a proper mono mix of the album does not exist. The Ebbetts is probably a needle drop.
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Welcome Ridware, btw. Odd name?
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hi
i read that the new boot of all things must pass is a needle drop............surely it never appeared on vinyl in mono???
i know obscure mono albums do turn up in places like peru but..........................
Just got the Mid Valley Bootleg Mono pressing of All Things Must Pass and it's a needle drop straight off the South American pressing. The labels on the CD are the same as the original vinyl pressing. It's gotta be the stereo mix down to mono like we've talked about but it sounds quite warm and full. But I bought it as a collectible. Not for the fidelity. Nothing more nothing less.
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Just got the Mid Valley Bootleg Mono pressing of All Things Must Pass and it's a needle drop straight off the South American pressing. The labels on the CD are the same as the original vinyl pressing. It's gotta be the stereo mix down to mono like we've talked about but it sounds quite warm and full. But I bought it as a collectible. Not for the fidelity. Nothing more nothing less.
Interesting: I could only find one reference to a South American ATMP pressing, and I'm assuming it's stereo because they don't say anything (that I can see, anyway) about it being mono. But judging from some of the comments there, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were making fold downs! 8)
http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=262875
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Interesting: I could only find one reference to a South American ATMP pressing, and I'm assuming it's stereo because they don't say anything (that I can see, anyway) about it being mono. But judging from some of the comments there, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were making fold downs! 8)
[url]http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=262875[/url]
South Americans seem to be known for doing mono mixes. One of the best known mono mixes of Abbey Road is Brazilian.
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i like that album. nuff said.
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South Americans seem to be known for doing mono mixes. One of the best known mono mixes of Abbey Road is Brazilian.
And this Mid Valley boot I got is definitely sourced from a Brazilian pressing. I figued out how to read the labels. They just used the vinyl labels as the CD labels. Nice packaging but this is to be expected from Mid Valley.
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(atmp)
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South Americans seem to be known for doing mono mixes. One of the best known mono mixes of Abbey Road is Brazilian.
The Japanese may have been issuing mono fold downs, too. Years ago I had a bootleg called "Casualties" which included a mono version of the Japanese "Let It Be" single, which I assume must have been a fold down from the stereo. I imagine you could find out what mixes were made from Mark Lewisohn's books, but I haven't got a copy handy here.
http://www.bootlegzone.com/scan.php?scid=43492
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*takes Kevin out back and beats him bloody with a two-by-four*
Sorry, I have only so much patience! ;D *smacks you again*
Well, everyone has their taste. You think these songs were molehills. Okay. No one has to like all the Beatles songs or all of their solo work. George's solo work is my favorite of the ex-Beatles and he accomplishes this because he brings so much of himself and his philosophy to his music. I don't want mindless chatter; I want something that is a lovely melody, beautifully orchestrated, and makes me think. Not much, I know, but I'm fussy. And based on this, Bing! George wins. (For me. You of course can prefer whatever music you like to listen to in your own home.)
Just because you got me curious, I did my own "overt seriousness" hunt on ATMP:
"I'd Have You Anytime" - sweet love song
"My Sweet Lord"