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Solo forums => John Lennon => Topic started by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 16, 2015, 12:37:02 AM

Title: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 16, 2015, 12:37:02 AM
Plastic Ono Band is usually revered by rock critics as John Lennon's masterpiece, while the follow up Imagine tends to be considered as a second rate, sugary produced record. Is this fair? I mean, POB has the magical combination of minimal production and supposed sincerity, all right, but how about the songs? Are them better than those on Imagine? Actually, beyond production issues, I think that "Jealous Guy" and "Oh My Love" are better ballads than "Love" and "Look At Me". The lyrics of "How?" are as introspective as anything on POB. The nasty John is also well represented by "How Do You Sleep?". "I Don't Want To Be A Soldier" may not have the genial words of "Working Class Hero", but musically it works better as a protest song. And I still didn't mention "Imagine", the most transcendent song in John's solo catalog. Moreover, I don't mind the inclusion of catchy tunes like "Oh Yoko!", diversity is always welcome in my ears.

I usually read that POB is one the three greatest solo Beatles albums, along with Band On The Run and All Things Must Pass. I agree with the mention of the last two, but in my opinion the trilogy is completed by Imagine.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: Moogmodule on April 16, 2015, 06:42:37 AM
I think Imagine is a more balanced record in the classic sense. For all the reasons you outline. I suppose though that POB was such a gutsy, minimalist album, in an era where elaborate virtuosity was becoming the gold standard in rock and pop, that it was always going to earn the critical kudos. I can see why it's a critical favourite. But it's not always the most enjoyable listen. As I get older I tend to appreciate Imagine more. A few years I'll have ditched them both and plumped for Val Doonican.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: oldbrownshoe on April 16, 2015, 06:56:39 AM
I long checked out by 'Imagine' but I keep the POB album as a kind of end-piece in the collection and play it infrequently. It's not the kind of album anyone would play often, is it?
The Beatle-related jewels in 1970 remain, for me, 'Let It Be' (obviously) and 'McCartney'.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 17, 2015, 01:03:20 AM
With the exception of "Maybe I'm Amazed", McCartney sounds like a half-finished product to me. And my last view of POB, in addition to what I've said, is the image of a therapeutic record, where the portrait of "poor John" is more important than the music itself. I dislike the "jovial John" of Double Fantasy too. I prefer the introspective John of Imagine, the ironic John of Mind Games, the clever John of Walls And Bridges and even the nostalgic John of Rock 'N' Roll.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: Ovi on April 18, 2015, 03:23:45 PM
They are very different albums in concept and execution. 'Imagine' is more polished, more catchy, less bitter and ultimately more accessible and commercial. 'Plastic Ono Band' is one of those albums that could've been made at only one particular time by only one particular artist, a heart-on-the-sleeve type of deal, a tortured work. It's become more polarizing than it used to be, but it's weird to me that it was that appreciated in the first place. Not that it isn't good, it's just that it can be a difficult listen. I'll always take it over 'Imagine' even though the latter may be better on a song-by-song basis. Why? For the same reason I'd take Neil Young's 'Tonight the Night' over 'Harvest', Pulp's 'This Is Hardcore' over 'Different Class' or Lou Reed's 'Berlin' over 'Transformer'.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 18, 2015, 09:59:46 PM
I agree that Imagine is more polished, catchy, commercial, etc., but I also think its songwriting is better beyond its more refined production. In my case I don't find POB a more difficult listen in terms of music, it's more crude, but I have no problem with that. I just think that POB is musically narrow and I've got tired of its sad message that points to nothing. Beggars Banquet also has a relative minimal production, but it's a far better listen in my opinion.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 19, 2015, 01:41:50 AM
I want to add that the conclusion of Plastic Ono Band was "the dream is over", while the introduction of Imagine was "I'm a dreamer". I don't see this as a contradiction; I see this as a resurrection.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: Ovi on April 20, 2015, 09:43:51 AM
I just think that POB is musically narrow and I've got tired of its sad message that points to nothing.

I can understand this.

In my case I don't find POB a more difficult listen in terms of music, it's more crude, but I have no problem with that.

I meant "difficult" more in terms of lyrics (and even vocals). Some people don't feel comfortable with the artist they listen to presenting himself so naked and vulnerable on record. And John was never more naked (insert 'Two Virgins' joke) and vulnerable than on 'Plastic Ono Band' in my opinion. Other listeners disagree with the statements made in 'God' which is another point of polarity. As I said, it is weird to me that people have held the album in such high regard over the years, because in my listening experience these are the albums that split opinions to the most extreme degrees.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 27, 2015, 12:02:09 AM
I meant "difficult" more in terms of lyrics (and even vocals). Some people don't feel comfortable with the artist they listen to presenting himself so naked and vulnerable on record. And John was never more naked (insert 'Two Virgins' joke) and vulnerable than on 'Plastic Ono Band' in my opinion. Other listeners disagree with the statements made in 'God' which is another point of polarity. As I said, it is weird to me that people have held the album in such high regard over the years, because in my listening experience these are the albums that split opinions to the most extreme degrees.

Yes, John was brutally sincere in POB, but I see the album just as an instant photograph of John in 1970, different from the John that lived before and after that year. So in 1970 John was an unbeliever and not a dreamer, but briefly after he was able to imagine all the people living life in peace and asked people to play mind games together. So I don't see POB as a reflect of the true John, but as the image of the lost John. And maybe that's why POB is able to capture the public.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: oldbrownshoe on May 05, 2015, 03:47:12 PM
Maybe I'm Amazed would have made a terrific late 60s 45 (instead of the already available 'Something') but on McCartney it seems out of place. I'd have preferred 'Oh Woman Oh Why'.
Either way, I play that LP 30 times to every one of POB.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: BeatleFan on June 25, 2016, 02:28:38 AM
I find it hard to split them. Some days I prefer Plastic Ono, other days I prefer Imagine. Either way, they're far and away his best solo albums, even though the others contain moments of brilliance. Isolation is my favourite solo Lennon song and probably always will be. A man sitting down, laying his soul bare with nothing but his voice, a piano and drums. I love that minimalism.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: Bobber on June 27, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
POB is too dark for me, whereas Imagine is sometimes too commercial. Still I would prefer the latter.
Title: Re: Plastic Ono Band vs. Imagine
Post by: BeatleFan on June 28, 2016, 04:13:57 AM
Plastic Ono Band and Imagine are the best one, two punch you'll find from any solo artist. Concerning POB, some artists try and replicate that type of confessional mood with varying success. You have to really *feel* what you're singing. What we hear in POB is real.