DM's Beatles forums
Beatles forums => Albums => Topic started by: DaveRam on December 30, 2008, 12:17:35 PM
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Abbey Road is the Jewel in The Beatles Crown ?
Even though it's not my favourite Beatles album , it's pretty much the "Blueprint" for the modern Pop/Rock album ?
(thumbsup)
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yup I gotta admit. The White Album and Abbey Road are my favourites albums of all time. Abbey have some "lame" songs, but I think it's their most famous album or at least their most iconic.
LONG LIVE ABBEY ROAD ALBUM/STREET/STUDIO (cool2)
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not that keen on some songs on Abbey Road!
However, I would say The White Album is the second greatest record ever made...after Physical Graffiti (flower)
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I think I'd go with Rubber Soul or Revolver because the songwriting is sharper. Abbey Road owes more to professionalism than inspiration, I think, although the medley of song fragments on side two is a great example of what experience and professionalism can do for you. :)
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Agree with Geoff 100%.
:)
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I think I'd go with Rubber Soul or Revolver because the songwriting is sharper. Abbey Road owes more to professionalism than inspiration, I think, although the medley of song fragments on side two is a great example of what experience and professionalism can do for you. :)
Agree about the sharper songwriting on Rubber Soul and Revolver .
But i think a lot of successful albums that have come after Abbey Road have followed it's loser structure ?
What i mean by this is the flow of the album , it's not full of 3 minute songs .
It's bigger and bolder , and for me points the way to how albums would develop in the following years after it's release .
(smile)
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But i think a lot of successful albums that have come after Abbey Road have followed it's loser structure ?
What i mean by this is the flow of the album , it's not full of 3 minute songs .
It's bigger and bolder , and for me points the way to how albums would develop in the following years after it's release .
(smile)
I think I know what you mean, and in fact that "looser structure," both in terms of song structure and album making, was very typical of "rock" through the mid seventies. As a guy who got interested in rock and pop through people like The Ramones and The Jam, though, I like crisp three minute songs that move.
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I hear this looser structure a lot Geoff in the music i listen to from the Verve to Coldplay .
Quite a lot of the big albums of the last 40 years have followed this template if you think about it .
Abbey Road is a very modern sounding album to my hears , it makes a lot of other albums sound familiar if that makes sense ? (thinker)
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I hear this looser structure a lot Geoff in the music i listen to from the Verve to Coldplay .
That's certainly true. Both those bands have put out some good stuff, so maybe it's just my boredom with mid seventies stadium rock that gets in the way. Also agree with your point about Abbey Road pointing the way to the future. :)
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That's certainly true. Both those bands have put out some good stuff, so maybe it's just my boredom with mid seventies stadium rock that gets in the way. Also agree with your point about Abbey Road pointing the way to the future. :)
I think what i'm saying Geoff is that Abbey Road is still very much an influential album , it's structure is the template a lot of bands opt for when recording an album ?
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No one would say Sgt. Pepper?
I don't know about it being the jewel..but I believe it most defines the Beatles.
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Abbey Road is not their best album, but it is certainly one of their most influential. You can see it even today.
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Abbey Road is the Jewel in The Beatles Crown ?
I'll say yes, but I'm also biased because "Abbey Road" is my favorite Beatles album. But I also think we can't ignore "Sgt. Pepper." ;)
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Some albums i think have got an Abbey Road feel about them , i think all these albums have a similar structure to Abbey Road ?
Kate Bush - Hounds Of Love
Coldplay - Viva La Vida or Death and All His Friends
David Bowie - Hunky Dory
U2 - The Joshua Tree
Phil Collins - Face Value
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I'll say yes, but I'm also biased because "Abbey Road" is my favorite Beatles album. But I also think we can't ignore "Sgt. Pepper." ;)
Penny Lane, I like what you posted, but even more to the point, I LOVE your moving picture avatar of Paul screaming (Shea?). His screams are one of the things I like the most about the Beatles, trivial as that sounds as I type it. Clarabella, Lucille, Long Tall Sally, Kansas City, the scream leading into the guitar solo of "Can't Buy Me Love", I'm Down (is that what he's singing in your Avatar?), even the electric version of Revolution (though it seems to be double tracked, so it's not quite as impressive, perhaps) - his screams make those some of my favorite recordings in the world!
Thanks!
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Okay, why can't the crown have many jewels? Abbey Road, Pepper, Revolver and Rubber Soul are all jewels. Rubber Soul is the diamond, though, in my humble opinion.
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Penny Lane, I like what you posted, but even more to the point, I LOVE your moving picture avatar of Paul screaming (Shea?). His screams are one of the things I like the most about the Beatles, trivial as that sounds as I type it. Clarabella, Lucille, Long Tall Sally, Kansas City, the scream leading into the guitar solo of "Can't Buy Me Love", I'm Down (is that what he's singing in your Avatar?), even the electric version of Revolution (though it seems to be double tracked, so it's not quite as impressive, perhaps) - his screams make those some of my favorite recordings in the world!
Wow, thanks for the really nice words about my Paul avatar! I don't think your love for Paul's screaming is "trivial," because I adore it too. It really works well for his rock songs, like "Long Tall Sally" and "Soily" from Wings. I don't know why but I just love it when Paul cuts loose with his screaming. ;)
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im not too sure about this jewel actually. but maybe i like crowns without jewels. abbey road has some very bright highlights, but some downs as well. i dont think the album was an example for years and bands to come.
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^^^^^^^Oh.............so "Swine" is doing some thoughful thinking tonight instead of "laying in the mire of mud".......
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abbey road has some very bright highlights, but some downs as well.
What, in your opinion, are the "downs" on the album? (Just curious! :) )
I have mixed feelings about "I Want You (She's So Heavy)." Sometimes I enjoy it because it lulls me into sort of a trance, but sometimes I think it's too long and dull for me.
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Abbey Road is the Jewel in The Beatles Crown ?
Even though it's not my favourite Beatles album , it's pretty much the "Blueprint" for the modern Pop/Rock album ?
(thumbsup)
First time post here. Personally I think that albums like Revolver and Rubber Soul (in particular the US version) have been far more influential than Abbey Road. I don't see very many albums with the kind of structure that Abbey Road has (though I'm sure that they exist). To me, the mini-opera seems to be a rather crucial part of the record, and I don't see that as being a blueprint for the modern pop/rock album. In terms of the song lengths (which someone mentioned here), I would agree that the length of the tracks are somewhat more in line with contemporary length, but I am not so sure I am convinced that the current average running time of pop songs are a consequence of Abbey Road. After all, only four of the seventeen songs go over 3 and a half minutes. I think too that the progression of the song length was more of a growing trend that the Beatles were following rather than establishing. After all, the Rolling Stones had eclipsed the ten minute mark as far back as 1966. Blues and folk music never restricted themselves much to the 3 minute pop song; and I think that the rising popularity of Dylan throughout the sixties gave pop acts like the Beatles more freedom to broaden their scope.
This is not meant to be judgemental, incidentally. I think that Abbey Road is a great album but I am not sure that I find it to be as crucial or significant a Beatles album as Revolver or Rubber Soul (or, in my opinion, The White Album and Sgt. Pepper). However it may be their most iconic album cover, which is amusing given the amount of work that went into Pepper.
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I'm not sure if Abbey Road is their crown jewel, but it is an amazing album and in my top 3. I just wonder if this album would be as highly regarded if it wasn't recorded under the circumstances it was. It is amazing that this album come out as great as it did with all that was going on at the time.
Regardless of whether or not the songs were better on Sgt. Pepper, Sgt. Pepper has to be the crown jewel for its innovation and how it changed everything in popular music at the time.
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I'm not sure if Abbey Road is their crown jewel, but it is an amazing album and in my top 3. I just wonder if this album would be as highly regarded if it wasn't recorded under the circumstances it was. It is amazing that this album come out as great as it did with all that was going on at the time.
Regardless of whether or not the songs were better on Sgt. Pepper, Sgt. Pepper has to be the crown jewel for its innovation and how it changed everything in popular music at the time.
i 100% agree here. some thing about hearing sgt. peppers...i don't know how to describe it. but it's a very impressive album.
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I think the original post is a fair assessment of Abbey Road. Revolver and Rubber Soul are probably my favourites, but I will agree that the production and cohesion of Abbey Road more than make up for some of its weaker songs. It's definitely a wonder of an album.
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Abbey Road, great as it is, has influence a load of highly polished, bland as can be, American album rock.
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No one would say Sgt. Pepper?
I don't know about it being the jewel..but I believe it most defines the Beatles.
I agree, I think it is the (or one of the) best rock albums of all time, I think it might be the jewel, but that is just me :P
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But, a crown can have many jewles. Hey, all of them are jewles to me!! lol
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yes, every beatles album is a jewel!! :)
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As said before, a crown can have more than one jewel. Plus, different albums may be crowned for different reasons. Many people, I included, feel that Revolver is the best. If we are crowning the best selling album, that goes to The Beatles (AKA White Album). Certainly, Sgt Pepper's, Abbey Rd and Rubber Soul deserved to be crowned as well since they are among the best recordings ever? How about AHDN since it was the first album of all originals?
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'Revolver' is the jewel. You know, the album that 'Abbey Road' took its inspiration from.
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no, its not the jewel, theyre all jewels...
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no, its not the jewel, theyre all jewels...
does that include the Yellow Submarine 1969 soundtrack album? :-\
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All the albums are jewels.
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does that include the Yellow Submarine 1969 soundtrack album? :-\
with songs like hey Bulldog...............of course :)
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with songs like hey Bulldog...............of course :)
ok yeah, i forgot about that! ;)
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ok yeah, i forgot about that! ;)
LOL !
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Is it THE jewel, well, I don't know.
What I think shines (or glitters) about Abbey Road is that they knew they were breaking up, and there was great effort put into making it a great album. They wanted to go out with something they could be proud of. This turned out to be mostly a Paul album. John had lost interest to some degree and was ready to move on with his projects with Yoko.
I can just imagine the conversation:
Paul: "Hey guys, we all have our own projects, let's make one and go out with style."
John: (unenthusiastically) "Okay, I will come up with some good songs."
George: "Just let me have some songs. I have a back log of songs, I will come up with some good ones."
Ringo: "If that's what you guys want to do, I am in."
Paul: (to George Martin) "Will you produce it for us?"
George Martin: "If you let me, I will."
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I'd rank Abbey Road as about the 4th best Beatles album (after The White Album, Sgt. Pepper, & Revolver) but that being said, I can definitely see the argument for it being their best album. And I do think it's definitely their most "modern" sounding recording (the sound of Abbey Road is quite different than their previous albums... much cleaner & "brighter" but not quite as "warm")
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IMO the most iconic is Pepper
Its also the jewel in the crown
Ive heard many bands, talking about theyre albums, say....'Its our Sgt Pepper'
Im not saying its their best but maybe you had to be around at the time (I was 15) Pepper was a massive event in the world of music, for the first time we had to wait what seemed like and age for a new Beatle album and it didnt let down, even the cover was gobsmacking, me and the friends I had then had heard nothing like it.
For me theyre best album is a toss up between Revolver and Abbey Rd.
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Abbey Road is the Jewel in The Beatles Crown ?
Even though it's not my favourite Beatles album , it's pretty much the "Blueprint" for the modern Pop/Rock album ?
(thumbsup)
Technically Abbey Road is their best album vocally and instrumentally. They sound almost like a classical band on tracks like "Because and parts of the medley. I think they were hitting on something grand with “I Want You (She’s So Heavy) and the Abbey Road Medley both influence on heavy metal and progressive rock respectively. But unfortunately broke up.
To me a huge influence on much of modern rock/pop is Revolver "Rain/Paperback Writer era why? You had Pet Sounds still seeped in Phil Spector Wall Of Sound, Frank Zappa very much a parody of Varesse put into rock music and the unreleased music of the Velvet Underground. Revolver for one it doesn't sound like anything before it and compare it to say Bob Dylan Blonde on Blonde which most of the album is still restricted to established pop styles. Not really on Revolver you have classical Indian "Love You To", avant/Indian "Tomorrow Never Knows" and what is "Eleanor Rigby"? That helped expand on what you can put on the rock canvas.
It's really on "Rain", "Paper Back Writer" and "Tomorrow Never Knows" is where the production and ideas shine through. You have boosted bass and drums right up front, loops, and change of speeds, processed vocals, and automatic double tracking on "Tomorrow Never Knows”. The ideas on that one record is common to what you hear today.
“Paperback Writer” has again that boosted bass sound and some nasty guitar distortion. Then “Rain” the track is vari-speeded to create a dense rock sound a trick that Les Paul did but the Beatles take it to another level on “Rain”. Again the bass and drums are the vital part of the sound right up front but they add something to it by using a backward vocal fade-out to make it trippy. What I am saying is the Beatles were one of the first rock groups to combine close-miking on the drum and a boosted bass sound on the same records. That helped influenced much of what you hear in pop and rock music today.
You can make a case every Beatles album was a progression and it broke some ground.
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You can make a case every Beatles album was a progression and it broke some ground.
nice post. can you do it for help!?
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First time post here. Personally I think that albums like Revolver and Rubber Soul (in particular the US version) have been far more influential than Abbey Road. I don't see very many albums with the kind of structure that Abbey Road has (though I'm sure that they exist). To me, the mini-opera seems to be a rather crucial part of the record, and I don't see that as being a blueprint for the modern pop/rock album. In terms of the song lengths (which someone mentioned here), I would agree that the length of the tracks are somewhat more in line with contemporary length, but I am not so sure I am convinced that the current average running time of pop songs are a consequence of Abbey Road. After all, only four of the seventeen songs go over 3 and a half minutes. I think too that the progression of the song length was more of a growing trend that the Beatles were following rather than establishing. After all, the Rolling Stones had eclipsed the ten minute mark as far back as 1966. Blues and folk music never restricted themselves much to the 3 minute pop song; and I think that the rising popularity of Dylan throughout the sixties gave pop acts like the Beatles more freedom to broaden their scope.
This is not meant to be judgemental, incidentally. I think that Abbey Road is a great album but I am not sure that I find it to be as crucial or significant a Beatles album as Revolver or Rubber Soul (or, in my opinion, The White Album and Sgt. Pepper). However it may be their most iconic album cover, which is amusing given the amount of work that went into Pepper.
One thing you are missing with Bob Dylan as compared to the Beatles. Bob Dylan was still restricted to popular music forms and the Beatles went way beyond pop music at times. I’m not talking about a length of a song though the Beatles did release an 8 minute track avant collage “Revolution #9” and over 5 minute classical Indian song “Within You Without You”.
Take “Blue Jay Way” the use of dissonance even surpasses some of what the Velvet Underground were doing at the time. The track is totally based on Indian ragas with no guitars, backward tape, and a lone cello not exactly something you would even hear on the Doors first album. There plenty of other examples like this during this period.
As for the Abbey Road Medley it’s a bunch of finished and unfinished songs, put together in medley form to create an operatic structure. The thing is it’s not a really opera because there is no narrative theme. So again the Beatles are really bending the conventional concepts of an extended form of music. So I agree I can’t see its influence everywhere in music but I can appreciate what they were doing.
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nice post. can you do it for help!?
Help has some great songs but it has songs that I can do without. I know I was talking about this song on another thread here. Take "Ticket To Ride' the drone, the drum pattern which is proto type for "Tomorrow Never Knows", and the slow heavy sound might be their first step towards hard rock and psychedelic rock.
The Beatles were going away from the basic rock guitar set up with some of the tracks. You have "Yesterday" one of the most covered songs and you can hear it's influence on Left Banke and on the Rolling Stones "As Tears Go By'. Songs like "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away", and "I've Just Seen a Face" are all acoustics instruments. Country Rock influences on "Act Naturally, and "Another Girl". I've Just Seen a Face" is basically a country song in the pace of blues grass music. "Help" has two melodies being sung at the same time in a proto-type folk rock song.
Bizarre guitar sounds on "It's Only Love" and all those volume swell guitar sounds "I Need You". Most of all it's one of the first folk and country rock albums IMO. Though I can say the same thing for Beatles For Sale though.
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Technically Abbey Road is their best album vocally and instrumentally.
I dont agree with you there, The White Album was much more challenging than Abbey Rd in both respects
It's really on "Rain", "Paper Back Writer" and "Tomorrow Never Knows" is where the production and ideas shine through. You have boosted bass and drums right up front
but boosted bass and drums were done mainly because they were jealous of the sound The Stones were getting in American studio's so it wasnt a new concept by The Beatles, Paul always complained that you could actually hear the bass on early Stones records
and the Abbey Road Medley both influence on heavy metal and progressive rock respectively
I honestly think Pepper was THE biggest influence on prog, in fact some prog sites categorise it as Proto Prog
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I dont agree with you there, The White Album was much more challenging than Abbey Rd in both respects
but boosted bass and drums were done mainly because they were jealous of the sound The Stones were getting in American studio's so it wasnt a new concept by The Beatles, Paul always complained that you could actually hear the bass on early Stones records
I honestly think Pepper was THE biggest influence on prog, in fact some prog sites categorise it as Proto Prog
Maybe they were jealous of what the Rolling Stones were doing. Though the techniques the Beatles were using on Revolver were different and more influential. Though, I would like you to give an example prior to the Rolling Stones catalog where the drums and bass are as loud and as up-front as "Rain" and "Tomorrow Never Knows".
Technically on Abbey Road I think George Harrison guitar work, and the Beatles vocal harmonies listen to “Because” are better that what you hear on the White Album. It’s like giving some one an A and A+ grade. They were both great.
Of course Abbey Road is closer to prog than Sgt. Peppers its more than two years older than Sgt. Pepper so you would think they progressed. As for Sgt Pepper many consider it the first prog album. I consider “A Day in the Life” as prog rather than Frank Zappa Varese influenced composing melding of 50’s rock and roll of his prior two albums.
www.dprp.net/proghistory/1967.html (http://www.dprp.net/proghistory/1967.html)
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I would like you to give an example prior to the Rolling Stones catalog where the drums and bass are as loud and as up-front as "Rain" and "Tomorrow Never Knows".
Im thinking Satisfaction and 19th Nervous Breakdown for two, both 65 where you could hear prominant bass (but maybe Paul insisted on it being even more prominant for Rain)
Of course Abbey Road is closer to prog than Sgt. Peppers its more than two years older than Sgt. Pepper so you would think they progressed
Thats what I dont agree with, by 1969, King Crimson had released the first full blown prog album (in the Court) so the genre was established and Abbey Rd was more 'Rock' than 'Prog Rock', although parts of it were Symphonic and Arty..
Pepper was Art Rock, sometimes referred to as Proto Prog, but it was more Prog than Abbey Rd IMO, because, first of all it was a concept album with gatefold 'artistic' cover art, it had prog elements (think the intro to Fixing A Hole) songs with differing time signatures (Mr Kite, Day In The Life), a large variety of instrumentation, mellotron, sitars, Indian percussive instruments, full symphony orchestra etc
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Maybe they were jealous of what the Rolling Stones were doing. Though the techniques the Beatles were using on Revolver were different and more influential. Though, I would like you to give an example prior to the Rolling Stones catalog where the drums and bass are as loud and as up-front as "Rain" and "Tomorrow Never Knows".
Technically on Abbey Road I think George Harrison guitar work, and the Beatles vocal harmonies listen to “Because” are better that what you hear on the White Album. It’s like giving some one an A and A+ grade. They were both great.
Of course Abbey Road is closer to prog than Sgt. Peppers its more than two years older than Sgt. Pepper so you would think they progressed. As for Sgt Pepper many consider it the first prog album. I consider “A Day in the Life” as prog rather than Frank Zappa Varese influenced composing melding of 50’s rock and roll of his prior two albums.
[url=http://www.dprp.net/proghistory/1967.html]www.dprp.net/proghistory/1967.html[/url] ([url]http://www.dprp.net/proghistory/1967.html[/url])
hey musicfan67, wherever you are, you never finished our (interesting for me) discussion from 2010, I like your posts, please post again if you still with us :)