DM's Beatles forums

Other music forums => Musician's Corner => Topic started by: Xose on March 08, 2010, 10:45:15 PM

Title: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 08, 2010, 10:45:15 PM
Hello,

Under Bobber suggestion (=thanks Bobber!! ;) ) I start this topic.

I'm currently researching Paul McCartney's original sound prior to mid-April 1961, when he purchased in Hamburg his 1st Hofner 500/1 'violin' bass, which would be famous in the whole world two years after. I have been collecting some Paul McCartney's ger from this era, as Selmer and Reslo microphones, Elpico amp, Zenith guitar, Framus guitar, and my last finding: an original and in a superb condition Rosetti Solid 7, red coloured, from 1961....)

I'm trying to find the brand/make of the pickup he fitted to this guitar, and seen at Top Ten Club in Hamburg at the beginning of April 1961, and I thought you could help me to identify it...

Do you know which kind of pickup could be?? It seems LIKE a DeArmond but in my opinion it is NOT a DeArmond, but another German or British pickup imitating the DeArmond.

What do you think?? Could you help me??

I will be awaiting for your news...

Sincerely yours,

Xosé

(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/4884/indra1colourssubdued2.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/indra1colourssubdued2.jpg/)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/Solid207202B20Elpico.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/Rosetti27s20pick20up.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/Rosetti27s20bracket.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/Pastilla20Rosetti.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/Rosetti27s20DeArmond.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/DeArmond2028II29.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/DeArmond2028I29.jpg)[/quote]
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/new/Letritas.jpg)(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/new/DeArmond_tumbada.jpg)(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/zyabo/Xose%20Stuff/new/lighter.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/talanca/DeArmondII.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/talanca/DeArmondI.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/talanca/Letritas.jpg)
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 09, 2010, 07:21:28 AM
You're welcome. I moved the thread to the Musician's Corner as I thought it fitted better. Of course you do know that Rosetti is the English brand name for Egmond guitars from The Netherlands. Egmond does have a Solid 7 as well. Might that be something to research? I will also sent your question and pictures to a friend who has a guitar shop downtown.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 09, 2010, 01:16:03 PM
You're welcome. I moved the thread to the Musician's Corner as I thought it fitted better. Of course you do know that Rosetti is the English brand name for Egmond guitars from The Netherlands. Egmond does have a Solid 7 as well. Might that be something to research? I will also sent your question and pictures to a friend who has a guitar shop downtown.

Perfect...

Thank you VERY MUCH Bobber!! ;)

All info about Rosetti/Egmond Solid 7 (=catalogues, photos, owners, spare parts, etc.) is VERY welcome...

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 09, 2010, 01:22:35 PM
(http://www.theguitarcollection.org.uk/gallery4/egmond-p.jpg)

(http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/gallery/gallery2/gallery9/sup7.jpeg)
owned by Larry Wassgren
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 09, 2010, 02:14:34 PM
Thanks Bobber!! ;)

The green guitar is a Super Solid 7, i.e.: the model Egmond launched at beginning sixties to substitute the Solid 7

The red one is not Larry's anymore (=he sold it). It also hasn't the original Royal pick ups system...

I'm enclosing more photos with the original Royal pickup system fitted to Solid 7's...

Just compare the 'black strip' (=like, for example, on Macca's one) vs. the white one (=like, for example, on mine...)

Xosé

(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/4884/indra1colourssubdued2.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/indra1colourssubdued2.jpg/)

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3880/elpicosolid7depmi.jpg) (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/elpicosolid7depmi.jpg/)

(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3926/solid7thefourdreamers.jpg) (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/solid7thefourdreamers.jpg/)

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7016/solid7devalreynolds.jpg) (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/solid7devalreynolds.jpg/)

(http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/2516/solid7verdedevalreynold.jpg) (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/solid7verdedevalreynold.jpg/)

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8046/solid7elpicoii.jpg) (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/solid7elpicoii.jpg/)[/quote]

(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3557/rosettisolid7verde.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/rosettisolid7verde.jpg/)

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3757/fotoqmv.jpg) (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/fotoqmv.jpg/)[/quote]
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 16, 2010, 07:35:19 PM
Hello,

Can anybody help me to solve these questions?? Facts:

1) Paul McCartney purchases his Rosetti Solid 7 in 1960, June the 30th., at Hessy's music shop in Liverpool.

2) He arrives at Indra Club In Hamburg in August the 17th., with the guitar and his Elpico amp.

3) Where did he play before?? Only at two venues: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom, Grosvenor Road, Liscard, Wallasey, Cheshire and Neston Institute, Hinderton Road, Neston, Wirral, Cheshire.

Were the gigs at these venues booked by Allan Williams??  ???

Thanks in advance and best wishes!!  ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 17, 2010, 09:42:40 PM
Bookings like these were usually arranged by Williams or Mona Best. Details like these are usually described by Mark Lewisohn's in his Chronology, but I guess you have checked that. I can hardly imagine that there were only two gigs between June 30th and August 17th.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 18, 2010, 09:37:32 AM
Bookings like these were usually arranged by Williams or Mona Best. Details like these are usually described by Mark Lewisohn's in his Chronology, but I guess you have checked that. I can hardly imagine that there were only two gigs between June 30th and August 17th.

Thanks Bober!! ;)

After having posted my last contribution tio this thread, I found that those gigs at Wirral peninsula were booked by Les Dodd, acting Allan Williams as an agent. In fact, Williams arranged the gigs st those two venues, Neston Institute and Grosvenor Ballroom (=a total of 16, between June Thursday the 2nd and July Saturday the 30th.), every Thursday and Saturday respectively, while the boys were at Johnny Gentle tour in Scotland. IMHO, this was the very resaon which pushed Paul McCartney to purchase an electric guitar: the Solid 7...

After finishing those Wirral gigs, they met Pete Best at The Casbah, the Hamburg chance appeared and the history began to change...

What is of the most interest for me is the fact that the Solid 7 was used 'only' at 7 gigs before arriving at Indra on August the 17th. This would explain why the original Royal scratchplate/pu system wasn't STILL removed...

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 19, 2010, 11:17:24 AM
At Johnny Gentle's book (=Johnny Gentle and The Beatles: first ever tour - Scotland 1960) is stated that Paul bought his Solid 7 for that tour.

So..., what about Hessy's hire-purchase book date?? (=June the 30th.)  ???

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 19, 2010, 11:56:14 AM
Babiuk states that Paul still played his Zenith on that tour. He is playing the Zenith on the audition ten days earlier. Plus the contract with Hessy's looks authentic to me. No reason to change the date on that.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 19, 2010, 09:34:32 PM
Babiuk states that Paul still played his Zenith on that tour. He is playing the Zenith on the audition ten days earlier. Plus the contract with Hessy's looks authentic to me. No reason to change the date on that.

Yes but..., what about Johnny Gentle's statement?? The hire-purchase could be settled in June the 30th., but the guitar could be 'got' before (=for example, with a deposit). Being their first professional tour, no wonder that Paul wanted to improve to an electric...

In two months there will be 50 years (=half a century!!!) of the purchase of that Rosetti Solid 7. I would like to publish an article about it, and I have the gear (=a Solid 7 and an Elpico), which means that I can aproximately reconstruct the sound. But I need ALL the relevant sources (=and info...)

Thanks Bobber!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 22, 2010, 09:16:20 AM
Yes but..., what about Johnny Gentle's statement?? The hire-purchase could be settled in June the 30th., but the guitar could be 'got' before (=for example, with a deposit). Being their first professional tour, no wonder that Paul wanted to improve to an electric...

In two months there will be 50 years (=half a century!!!) of the purchase of that Rosetti Solid 7. I would like to publish an article about it, and I have the gear (=a Solid 7 and an Elpico), which means that I can aproximately reconstruct the sound. But I need ALL the relevant sources (=and info...)

Thanks Bobber!! ;)

Xosé

I would say that with McCartney's financial state of that time, a deposit is not very likely. I'd say check on Krasker and maybe Bill Harry. Or Chazz Avery.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 22, 2010, 03:00:56 PM
I would say that with McCartney's financial state of that time, a deposit is not very likely...

Yes, but maybe Jim 'signed' for his son until the hire purchase was settled....

...I'd say check on Krasker and maybe Bill Harry. Or Chazz Avery.

I did it with Eric Krasker and some others, but they don't have more info. I also wrote to John Askew (=Johnny Gentle's real name), but no replay so far...

Anyway, is more likely for Johnny Gentle tour. HP book says June the 30th., but that very day the boys were in the middle of their Wirral gigs at Neston and Wallasey. Buying the guitar just in the middle of those Wirral gigs?? Of course, it could be but it seems at least strange..., doesnt it??

I'm currently waiting for some sources from some of those Scottish villages. I will let you know...

Thanks again and best wishes,

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 22, 2010, 03:51:16 PM
I'm currently waiting for some sources from some of those Scottish villages. I will let you know...

Please do.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 22, 2010, 11:03:46 PM
Babiuk states that Paul still played his Zenith on that tour...

Yes, but he gives no source to support that statement. He also states at the same paragraph that "..there is only one known photograph from the [Johnny Gentle] tour and it shows Tommy Moore on stage singing, with Harrison playing his Futurama in the background...". The singer at this photograph is not Tommy Moore but Johnny Gentle...

BTW: why Paul's HP book for his Solid 7 si 'so different' than the ones of Stuart's Höfner 500/5 bass and George's Selmer Truvoice Stadium amp (=page 31), John's Höfner Club 40 (=page 21) or George's Futurama (=page 26)?? Is Paul's a different type of contract??  ???

And if I see properly the small scan at Babiuk's book (=page 33), last coupon in Paul's HP is from 1961, January the 5th., when he paid..., £1 or £4?? What can you see??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 23, 2010, 08:09:40 AM
I can't read the contract word by word. Problem is we only have this contract to derive the date of Paul's purchase. There's no pictures known between the Larry Parnes audition and their first night in Hamburg. The only known picture of the Scotland tours does not show Paul. Your idea is that Paul might have thought to get a proper guitar for the Scotland tour, but George Harrison says in Anthology that their guitars and gears were all crap during the tour. Plus Paul -being an economist type of guy- might have saved some money earned on the tour to be able to buy him a better guitar. It's all assumptions I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 23, 2010, 08:55:36 AM
I can't read the contract word by word. Problem is we only have this contract to derive the date of Paul's purchase. There's no pictures known between the Larry Parnes audition and their first night in Hamburg. The only known picture of the Scotland tours does not show Paul. Your idea is that Paul might have thought to get a proper guitar for the Scotland tour, but George Harrison says in Anthology that their guitars and gears were all crap during the tour. Plus Paul -being an economist type of guy- might have saved some money earned on the tour to be able to buy him a better guitar. It's all assumptions I'm afraid.

Yes: once more you are right...

Let's wait for some info which can -eventually- surface from those seven Scottish villages...
Thanks again!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 23, 2010, 09:54:45 AM
Found this coverage of the Beatles Scottish Tour in May 1960. It's from Bob Spitz's book, which is not known for its reliaibility. Unfortunately there's no mention of any instruments used. Still a nice enough read. The last sentence on Ringo's interest seems plain nonsense to me by the way!

*NB: Subsequent research has shown that the famous Larry Parnes audition was not May 20 but May 10, 1960.


As we pick up from our last blog story, the "Silver Beetles" won the Larry Parnes Audition, beating out the four other top Liverpool bands in the process. The lads were understandably ecstatic. They were to be paid an astounding 90 Pounds/week on an actual tour. The whole thing was simply unprecedented for a Liverpudlian band.

Arrangements were hastily made among the band members. Paul somehow sweet talked his father into allowing him a vacation before final exams while John and Stuart just cut classes. As for equipment, the issue was solved when John decided to "borrow" the house PA system from the Liverpool Art College. The boys were finally hitting the road on a for real tour!! It was a journey from which they would never look back.

John, Paul, George, Stuart and Tommy also talked of stage names. After all, big stars all used fake stage names didn't they? No one remembers who started up this conversation but an educated guess would suggest it was Stuart Sutcliffe since he was the most affected by image and stage looks. Stuart Sutcliffe became Stuart de Stael, after his painting idol, the Russian abstract classicist. John and Tommy Moore opted not to have stage names. Paul had great fun becoming Paul Ramone for the tour while George became Carl Harrison, named after his guitar idol Carl Perkins.

>Trivia: As we have blogged before, the proto-punk star band, The Ramones, got their name from this episode. As Beatlemaniacs all, the Ramones became the Ramones directly from this story in Beatle history. They dug how McCartney just came up with that radical stage name and how it sounded. >

The train ride was horrible but the boys disembarked in Glasgow 10 hours later. This was followed by hours and hours of lorrey driving along the rural, two lane, serpentine Scottish road network. Larry Parnes always started out his new bands on the Scottish dance-hall circuit, where there were more than 6000 small venues for bands to play in, literally. The Scottish tour circuit provided steady work for many bands and an opportunity for each to develope their routines and repetoir away from the unforgiving lights and scrutiny of London.

The band and singer Johnny Gentle finally stopped in the town of Alloa.  They were forced to go right to work. They unloaded at the town hall where they were scheduled to go on within the hour. Gentle (born John Askew) was a handsome man with black hair, high cheekbones and velvety voice; the very model of a Larry Parnes artist. Gentle and the pre-Fabs hit it off immediately and spent the 30 minutes before the first show trying to hammer out a decent set of songs. They were required to do two, one hour performances. Even though the boys had learned much of Gentle's repetoir, they still needed to work on tempos, starts, stops etc.

As it turned out, the first set went extremely well. Especially so for an act that had just met. Said Gentle, "The Beatles sounded as good as any group that was thrown at me by Parnes." At first however, the Silver Beetles were not going over so well due to their flippant personalities that wasn't going down well with local fans and promoters. It was Johnny Gentle himself that intervened on behalf of the fledgling group and begged Larry Parnes NOT to pull the Silver Beetles from the tour. Gentle guaranteed they would get better. He was right. In no time at all, the Silver Beetles and Gentle found their groove and artistic balance. As well, a few words from Johnny himself no doubt straightened the boys out.

>Trivia: Johnny Gentle remains the only artist in history who can claim the Beatles were HIS backing band.


As the Silver Beetles and singer Johnny Gentle found their balance and honed their act in the Scottish highlands, it became clear that the pre-Fabs were already moving forward in both material and, most importantly, confidence. The way it worked basically was this; Johnny Gentle would conclude around 20 minutes of singing with the Silver Beetles backing him, then the band would take over and do a 40 minute set. Once Gentle had finished, it was usually Paul who rushed to the microphone screeching out the opening vocals to Little Richard's "Long Tall Sally" and that was it: all pretense was over with - Johnny Gentle entertained the audience, the Silver Beetles rocked them into oblivion.

John, Paul, George, Stuart and Tommy pummeled the unsuspecting Scottish audiances with 40 minutes of unbridled rock & roll, the likes of which none of the paid ticketeers had been prepared for. The boys wouldn't let up for the full 40- minutes and the affect was mesmerizing. The Scottish kids were completely undone by this music and the manic energy of the pre-Fabs and would wind up rushing the stage trying to fling themselves upon the stage.

Johnny Gentle recalls the time, "Those two boys operated on a different frequency," he said of John and Paul. "I used to watch them work the crowd as though they'd been doing it all their lives - and without any effort other than their amazing talent. I'd never seen anything like it. They were so tapped into what the other was doing and could sense their partner's next move, they just read each other like a book. It was always Lennon & McCartney, even then. Lennon and McCartney. They wouldn't even look at George or Stu to determine where things were going. Everything was designed around the two of them - and the others had to catch up on their own."

Interestingly, George, Stuart and Tommy did keep pace. George Harrison especially. He worked his interesting patterns by embroidering his strumming with a textured riffs and intonations that served to string the songs along with glorious coloring. This, forshadowing his underated work when the Beatles became superstars. George's guitar embroidering on songs is perhaps the most underated effort by any Beatle in their entire history.

The Silver Beetles were slowly stealing the show from Gentle. The stronger they played, the more girls they attracted; the more girls they got, the stronger they played. They learned a dirty little secret about the business along the way too: beyond the lights, applause, hotels and girls- no one ever made money on the road. They were broke after four days. Gentle wired Parnes for an advance and the day was saved. All in all, the tour was a fantastic experience for the future Beatles. Gentle was a fellow Scouser from Liverpool and was refreshingly normal and down to earth with the boys, which they loved.

>Trivia: The van driver for this little tour was a chap named Gerry Scott. Johnny Gentle was dabbling at writing songs during the tour and John Lennon heard one of them, a tune called "I've Just Fallen." Lennon suggeted to Gentle to change the middle 8 part to a better middle 8 that Lennon had composed. Gentle did and liked the change. A year goes by, and Britain's next big star Adam Faith used the song on his then new album. As for Johnny Gentle, his career went nowhere. So, he changed his name again to Darren Young and re-recorded "I've Just Fallen" again and released it as a B side single. Thus, the middle 8 to "I've Just Fallen" remains the very first Lennon partial composition recorded and released. Oddly, that single was released on Parlophone records, the same label that would be spouting Beatles' hits like the Old Faithful geyser by 1963.

Conclusion: Johnny Gentle sang the Silver Beetles' praises long and hard to Larry Parnes despite the fact that the pre-Fabs had virtually stolen the tour from him. Gentle said he would go out with them again any time and meant it. Parnes was impressed but opted not to resign them for another tour. Gigs were left to Allan Williams back in Liverpool. But the pre-Fabs had served notice to every band in the area that they were a force to be reckoned with. Even Williams relented a bit and recognized that they had talent. Tommy Moore would quit the Silver Beetles by June 11 after having sustained a concussion in a van accident in Scotland. Very interestingly, the drummer from Rory Storm and the Hurricanes took a detached interest in the Silver Beetles and promised himself that he would keep track of that ourtrageous, hard working pure rock & roll outfit precisely because they were so raw, relentless and good. That drummer was named Ringo Starr.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 23, 2010, 03:06:40 PM
Excellente, Bobber, excellent... A fantastic an nice reading...Thank you SO much!! ;)

It's very good what Spitz says about John 'borrowing' PA system from the Art College, the brief 'rehearsal' 30 minutes before their first gig in Alloa, and that superb description Johnny Gentle did about John & Paul 'matching' together...

I wonder where did Spitz take that info from...

Let's have a look at the gigs in the Wirral Penninsula booked by Les Dodd (=acting Williams as their agent), before and after the date of Rosetti Solid 7 contract, 1960, June the 30th.:

June the 2nd., Thursday: Neston Institute, Neston
June the 4th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvernor Ballroom, Liscard
June the 6th., Monday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom, with Gerry and the Pacemakers
June the 9th., Thursday: Neston Institute
June the 11th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom. Drummer Thomas Moore doesn't play (=???)
June the 13th., Monday: Performance at manager Allan Williams' Jacaranda Club. It was drummer Tommy Moore's final appearance with the group
June the 16th., Thursday: Neston Institute. Also performing are Keith Rowlands and the Deesiders (=Who played drums??)
June the 18th., Saturday. Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Who played drums??)
June the 23rd., Thursday: Neston Institute (=Who played drums??)
June the 25th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Who played drums??)
June the 30th., Thursday: Neston Institute (=official date of guitar purchase. Who played drums??)
July the 2nd., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Who played drums??)
July the 7th., Thursday: Neston Institute (=Who played drums??)
July the 9th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Who played drums??)
July the 16th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom. From now the Silver Beatles are: John, Paul, George, Stu and Norman Chapman (drums).
July the 23rd., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom
July the 30th., Saturday. Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom

 ???

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 23, 2010, 03:45:53 PM
I wonder where did Spitz take that info from...

I think he made up a lot...
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 23, 2010, 05:24:20 PM
...July the 16th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom. From now the Silver Beatles are: John, Paul, George, Stu and Norman Chapman (drums)...

I took the list in my previous post from this site. However Bill Harry, The Beatles Encyclopedia, London, Virgin, 1992, p. 255, states that Norman Chapman played at the June 18 & 25, and July 2 gigs...  Complicated..., isn't it?? ???

Anyway, if we stick to the official date of purchase at the HP book, the facts would be:

Paul goes to Hessy's, gets the guitar, paid 10 shilling and goes to the gig at the Neston Institute (=in the Wirral Peninsula) to start playing at 20:00. But, as he uses to play drums at those days when no drummer is available, instead of playing his new Rosetti Solid 7, he plays drums...

Does it fit?? Wouldn't be more 'logical' to get the guitar ready for the Johnny Gentle tour?? ???

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 23, 2010, 07:49:41 PM
It keeps us busy. ha2ha.  If you go with Bill Harry, the purchase of the Rosetti on June 30 is a logical thing. They had a drummer by then.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 23, 2010, 08:24:47 PM
It keeps us busy. ha2ha.  If you go with Bill Harry, the purchase of the Rosetti on June 30 is a logical thing. They had a drummer by then.

A drummer on June 30 at Neston?? Who?? ???

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 23, 2010, 08:28:18 PM
Well, Bill Harry states that Norman Chapman joined them on stage from June 18th on.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 23, 2010, 08:32:27 PM
Well, Bill Harry states that Norman Chapman joined them on stage from June 18th on.

But only for three gigs: June 18, June 25 and July 2..., didn't he?? ???

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 26, 2010, 07:22:52 AM
Please do.

Something I received yesterday from Alloa. More sources on the way...

Xosé

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8700/silverbeatlesenalloai.jpg) (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/silverbeatlesenalloai.jpg/)

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9509/silverbeatlesenalloaii.jpg) (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/silverbeatlesenalloaii.jpg/)

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6225/silverbeatlesenalloaiii.jpg) (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/silverbeatlesenalloaiii.jpg/)
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 26, 2010, 07:53:05 AM
Do you own Ken McNab's book?
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 26, 2010, 08:10:30 AM
Do you own Ken McNab's book?

I ordered a copy a few days ago. It will be in my hands next week (=I hope)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on March 26, 2010, 08:29:05 AM
I don't think there will be any new pictures tho. We would have known by now.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on March 26, 2010, 08:41:01 AM
I don't think there will be any new pictures tho. We would have known by now.

Yes, you are right... Anyway, let's wait for my copy to arrive. I will let you know...

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on April 02, 2010, 10:23:15 AM
I received the book yesterday and no: no new photos of the Johnny Gentle tour...

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on April 06, 2010, 07:44:43 AM
I received the book yesterday and no: no new photos of the Johnny Gentle tour...

Xosé

We predicted that. Any other interesting useful information?
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on April 06, 2010, 10:50:31 AM
We predicted that. Any other interesting useful information?

Well, yes: I read only the chapter dealing with Johnny Gentle touir, and there are some witnesses of those gigs who give their memories. Some photos of any of the girls (=now women in their sixties) there taken with John Lennon, which haven't surfaced so far...

No mention of the Rosetti Solid 7 guitar...

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on April 14, 2010, 02:04:09 PM
How about this then!:
from pressandjournal.co.uk:

Quote
North-east hall’s place in music history
scholar believes Peterhead venue is place where paul mccartney first went electric

By Jamie Buchan

Published: 27/03/2010

From the outside, Peterhead’s Rescue Hall is a fairly unremarkable council-owned building, popular with groups for toddlers and clubs for pensioners.

It has emerged, however, that the Prince Street venue may have played a significant role in Beatles history.

An acclaimed music scholar has revealed that the hall was the place where Paul McCartney first went electric.

The Fab Four played Peterhead in 1960 when they were known as the Silver Beatles.

Spanish music writer and Beatles fanatic Xose Crisanto Gandara believes that Paul played electric guitar for the first time at the Buchan concert.

He made the discovery while researching Paul’s original sound in the Beatles’ early days.

The guitar Paul used at this time was a Rosetti Solid Seven, and this year marks the 50th anniversary of the instrument’s debut on the Beatles’ historic Scottish tour.

“This instrument is very important because it was Paul’s first electric guitar,” he said.

“He used it until April 1961, in Hamburg.”

Mr Gandara said he hoped that music fans in Scotland who attended the gig, and others on the north-east Scotland tour, will be able to confirm his theory.

Mr Gandara, a doctor in music and philosophy, said: “I need to find people who can remember if Paul really was using that red Rosetti Solid Seven that day.

“Unfortunately, it seems there are no photos of them playing there.”

It is believed that the guitar may have been bought at a store in Liverpool.

The Beatles supported Liverpudlian singer Johnny Gentle when they came to the north-east.

They played at Peterhead on May 28, 1960, following gigs at Alloa, Inverness, Fraserburgh, Keith, Forres and Nairn.

Famously, the tour almost turned to tragedy when the Fab Four’s heavily laden tour bus was involved in a crash near Fraserburgh. The only band member injured was then drummer Tommy Moore who lost some teeth and had to be taken to hospital.

Read more: [url]http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1664720#ixzz0l5ED8yCa[/url] ([url]http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1664720#ixzz0l5ED8yCa[/url])


and

Quote
Pensioner disputes claim over Beatles’ Buchan gigs
paul Mccartney didn’t play electric guitar at peterhead in 1960, insists broch music fan

Published: 13/04/2010

A PENSIONER who saw two legendary north-east performances by an early incarnation of The Beatles has dismissed claims by a music scholar that Peterhead was the place where Paul McCartney first went electric.

George Borthwick, 70, of Westray Park, Fraserburgh, saw the Fab Four take to the stage as The Silver Beatles both in the Broch and the Blue Toon in 1960.

Spanish music writer and Beatles fanatic Xose Crisanto Gandara believes that Sir Paul played electric guitar for the first time at the Rescue Hall at Peterhead.

But Mr Borthwick insists this was not the case.

He says Sir Paul played either a Framus or Hofner guitar at the Buchan gigs, not a Rosetti Solid Seven as Mr Gandara claims.

“I remember both concerts quite well because Sir Paul is a left-hander and as a guitar player myself that sort of detail sticks in your mind,” said Mr Borthwick.

“I was speaking to another musical friend of mine last week who had attended the gigs and he too agreed that there was no sign of the Rosetti on those nights.”

Mr Borthwick said he has now contacted Mr Gandara who had appealed for locals with any information about the Peterhead concert to get in touch.

Mr Gandara, a doctor in music and philosophy, contacted the Press and Journal as part of his research into Sir Paul’s original sound in the early days of The Beatles.

The band played at Fraserburgh’s Dalrymple Hall on May 23, 1960 and at Peterhead five days later.

They were supporting Liverpudlian singer Johnny Gentle on a tour that also visited Alloa, Inverness, Keith, Forres and Nairn.

Read more: [url]http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1687696#ixzz0l5DjWjPo[/url] ([url]http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1687696#ixzz0l5DjWjPo[/url])

Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on April 14, 2010, 08:37:32 PM
Thanks Bobber!! ;)

I had written to those Scottish villages a couple of weeks ago, asking for witnesses of those gigs to confirm or not if Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 was really used at that tour, as Johnny Gentle says in his book. Now I'm still waiting for Mr. George Borthwick email, from Fraserburgh, as he seems a very interesting witness. His account confirms that Johnny Gentle's statements in his book were wrong: according to Mr. George Borthwick, Paul didn't use his Rosetti Solid 7 guitar at the Scotland tour but his Zenith...

Why did Johnny Gentle tell that?? I don't know...

Best!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on April 15, 2010, 07:45:27 AM
Didn't I tell you that already? ha2ha   Good luck on the research and keep us informed.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on April 15, 2010, 08:19:09 AM
Didn't I tell you that already? ha2ha   Good luck on the research and keep us informed.


Thank you!! ;)

I will...

BTW, see here:

http://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Cheshire/Neston/CH64/Who-When-Why/Answers-to-Correspondents/160548-Did-Paul-McCartney-play-his-first-electric-guitar-in-Neston (http://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Cheshire/Neston/CH64/Who-When-Why/Answers-to-Correspondents/160548-Did-Paul-McCartney-play-his-first-electric-guitar-in-Neston)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on April 28, 2010, 04:16:41 PM
...Good luck on the research and keep us informed.

Mr. George Borthwick, from Fraserburgh, a 70 years old man who attended two gigs (=Fraserburgh and Peterhead) at Johnny Gentle tour in May 1960, has finally written to me today:

"...Dear Xosé

I'm glad that you managed to contact me. I tried to Email you twice but my
computer did not send for some reason.

I'll do my best for you, it [Paul's guitar] was a FRAMUS Zenith model, at that time I had a
FRAMUS Capri model. I think George had a FUTURAMA, Stu a Hofner
semi-accoustic bass and I'm not sure about John but I think he had an EGMOND
(they were made in Holland).
At that time ,50s and 60s, we could only look at FENDERS and GIBSONS in
photographs in magazines. We could not get them in the UK and could not
afford them when they became available.
Around then I played bass in a group and one of the guys had a ROSETTI
guitar.
Anyway, back to the subject. I can't help you regarding amps, I did not
notice.
I'd be very happy if could Email me the photos you mentioned, plus a copy of
the article you are writing.
I hope this has been of some help to you.
All the best,
George..."


Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on May 01, 2010, 04:25:56 PM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 01, 2010, 08:54:37 PM
I finally could manage to reach John Askew (=aka Johnny Gentle). Someone from his family emails me the following:

"...Hi again. I have just spoken to Johnny G and he hasn't got a book with him as he is away on his holidays but he has said that he can't remember exactly where in the book Paul's guitar is mentioned but did say that the co author Ian Forsyth did a lot of research for the book and feels it may be something he added.
He seems to think as you said that Paul didn't have the [Rosetti Solid 7] guitar for the Scottish tour and it was only when The Beatles returned from Hamburg that Paul took up base [sic] as Stu was no longer playing
with them. JG will have a closer look when he has a look at the book. I hope this helps with your article but suppose it is a little vague...."


Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
Post by: Bobber on May 02, 2010, 07:52:15 AM
^It IS a little vague. lol. But probably good enough for your research.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 02, 2010, 12:04:44 PM
...But probably good enough for your research.

Oh yes. Sure!! His relative is going to give me more info, as I have placed a few more questions.

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 05, 2010, 08:00:34 AM
Deleted due to duplication...
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 05, 2010, 08:02:46 AM
Here there are the receipts for John's Club 40, George's Futurama and Stu's 500/5, scanned from Babiuk's book. I also enclose two catalogue scans from those days with the price for a Rosetti Solid 7: £18-8-0. Those catalogues are very interesting and, among other things, they give the very address for Rosetti Co. in London: Fitzroy Court, W.1...

With the help of a magnifying glass I can conclude the following:

- John Lennon signed his hire-purchase agreement with Hessy's for his Höfner Club 40 on 1959, August the 28th. His aunt Mimi was the guarantor and paid a deposit of £17-0-0. The hire-purchase contract rises the initial price of £28-7-0 to £30-9-0, by means of £2-2-0 add charges. First payment of £0-5-0 is dated September 10. John had to pay £0-5-0 during 53 weeks, i.e., a total amount of £14-5-0 (=is this last calculation correct??)

- George Harrison signed his hire-purchase agreement with Hessy's for his Futurama Grazioso on 1959, November the 20th. His mum Elsie was the guarantor and paid a deposit of £10-0-0. The hire-purchase contract rises the intitial price of £64-1-0 to £74-6-0, by means of £10-5-0 add charges. First payment of £0-16-0 is dated December 5. George had to pay £0-16-6 during 44 weeks, i.e., a total amount of £37-4-0 (=is this last calculation correct??)


- Stuart Sutcliffe signed his hire-purchase agreement with Hessy's for his Höfner 500/5 bass on 1960, January the 21st. His guarantor was ??? (=I can't read it at Babiuk's scan) and paid a deposit of £15-0-0. The hire-purchase contract rises the intitial price of £50-8-0 to £59-15-0, by means of £9-7-0 add charges. First payment £8-0-0 is dated..., February 4 ??? (=I can't read it at Babiuk's scan) Stu had to pay £0-8-0 during 40 weeks, i.e., a total amount of £16-0-0 (=is this last calculation correct??)


I hope to be right with my calculations as old English currency is a bit complicated for me... ???

If this is correct, then Paul McCartney (=who had to pay £21-0-0 for his Solid 7, being the initial guitar's price £18-8-0 and the agreement £0-10-0 a week) should have to pay during 42 weeks..., correct?? So, add charges were £2-12-0 (=is this last calculation correct??)


I still wonder if there was any deposit before for Macca's Solid 7, having in mind that John, George & Stu made a deposit. It had to be an usual procedure at the time...

And..., why John, George and Stu (=and Paul!!) get different add charges for their purchases?? Is due to the different prices of their respective instruments?? Due to different deposits?? Or perhaps is due to the fact that they finished payments at different time rates??

I would love to know your thoughts...

Best,

Xosé

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/8279/sclub40.jpg) (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/sclub40.jpg/)

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2152/sfuturama.jpg) (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/sfuturama.jpg/)

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8319/52561336.jpg) (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/52561336.jpg/)

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9441/solid7i.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/solid7i.jpg/)

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5047/solid7ii.jpg) (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/solid7ii.jpg/)
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on May 05, 2010, 10:09:12 AM
I can't help you with the old English currencies, Xose. Maybe one of the old English codgers around here.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 05, 2010, 10:41:19 AM
I can't help you with the old English currencies, Xose. Maybe one of the old English codgers around here.

Thanks anyway!!  ;)

I hope someone of them can do it, as seems that only you and me read this thread!!  ???

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Kevin on May 05, 2010, 04:04:40 PM
They refer to the predecimal (1971) system of pounds, shillings and pence, a system of almost Byzantium complication that only the British could invent (or suffer using.)
A pound was divided into twenty shillings and each shilling into twelve pence. Have fun you nutters. (though your subject baffles me I have a deep admiration for the depths of detail you are willing to explore. This, if not the subject, warms me greatly.)
There were also coins representing 1/4 and 1/2 a penny. (so you would need 960 farthings to make a pound.)
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 05, 2010, 04:34:49 PM
They refer to the predecimal (1971) system of pounds, shillings and pence, a system of almost Byzantium complication that only the British could invent (or suffer using.)
A pound was divided into twenty shillings and each shilling into twelve pence. Have fun you nutters. (though your subject baffles me I have a deep admiration for the depths of detail you are willing to explore. This, if not the subject, warms me greatly.)
There were also coins representing 1/4 and 1/2 a penny. (so you would need 960 farthings to make a pound.)

Thank you very much Kevin!! ;)

So..., what about my calculations?? Could you tell me if they are right or wrong??

Best,

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 05, 2010, 09:24:02 PM
Quote from: Xosé
I finally could manage to reach John Askew (=aka Johnny Gentle). Someone from his family emails me the following:

"...Hi again. I have just spoken to Johnny G and he hasn't got a book with him as he is away on his holidays but he has said that he can't remember exactly where in the book Paul's guitar is mentioned but did say that the co author Ian Forsyth did a lot of research for the book and feels it may be something he added...."

Johnny Gentle - Ian Forsyth, Johnny Gentle & The Beatles. First Ever Tour. Scotland 1960, Cheshire, Merseyrock, 1998, p. 48:

"...The musty old red curtains swung back to reveal the five Beatles dressed in black shirts and jeans with two tone tennis shoes. Stuart was clutching his Hofner President bass, Paul his Rosetti Solid 7, which would later dramatically fall to pieces in Hamburg through overuse,George his cherry red Grazioso and John his Hofner Club 40..."

Johnny Gentle - Ian Forsyth, Johnny Gentle & The Beatles. First Ever Tour. Scotland 1960, Cheshire, Merseyrock, 1998, pp. 75-76:

"...They'd agreed that their first stop would be Hessy's Music Store on Stanley Street as the last seven days had shown how shoddy their meagre equipment really was. In fact apart from Tommy's drums all their kit needed replacing. John especially thought his Hofner Club 40 had had it and already had his eyes on the thin line hollow bodied Rickenbacker Capri, which had been launched in 1958. Paul's £18 Dutch made Solid 7 would confirm their fears by literally falling apart in Germany less than six months later! Only George was, for the time being, happy with his Grazioso, the model was later licensed by Selmer and sold at £60 as the renamed Futurama..."

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on May 06, 2010, 07:13:12 AM
Well, at least the author confirmed his first statement. Source?
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 06, 2010, 08:57:07 AM
Well, at least the author confirmed his first statement. Source?

No. Ian Forsyth gives no sources for these statements. IMHO he knows that Paul had used a Rosetti Solid 7 around that time and he thought Paul used it at Scottish tour. That's all.

It's like those myths regarding The Beatles that circulate years and years and end being 'The Truth'...

Best,

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on May 06, 2010, 09:08:34 AM
Exactly. According to your eye witness Paul did not have the Rosetti on the Scottish tour at all. I remember a story of a small crash with the van on the Scottish tour, which damaged Tommy Moore's face. Maybe Paul's guitar of that time had had its best time as well by then.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 06, 2010, 09:23:24 AM
Exactly. According to your eye witness Paul did not have the Rosetti on the Scottish tour at all. I remember a story of a small crash with the van on the Scottish tour, which damaged Tommy Moore's face. Maybe Paul's guitar of that time had had its best time as well by then.


Yes, that's right But remember that Paul still owns his guitar of that time (=his Zenith). See here:

Paul McCartney - Twenty Flight Rock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q08oC_34Mcc#lq-hq)

Anyway, the point now is trying to understand those John, George and Stu's receipts, because we could have a frame of what happened with Paul's Solid 7 purchase. I mean: Paul's HP book states 30 June, but IMHO that is THE date of HP agreement. I think Paul had to put down a deposit in advance, as John, George and Stu did, and we could find out which amount was that deposit if somebody from England could help to understand that old English currency, taking in mind the percentages of John, George and Stu's purchases. You know what I mean?? My English language is not good enought to explain myself properly!!  ???

So, if Paul put down a deposit, it had to be BEFORE the HP agreement, and this would lead us to a date BEFORE 30 june 1960.

What do you think??

Best,

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 06, 2010, 09:33:57 AM
Have a look once more time at the gigs in the Wirral Penninsula booked by Les Dodd (=acting Williams as their agent), before the date of Rosetti Solid 7 HP agreement. According to Allan Williams they were paid £9 a gig. They had to pay £1 to Williams and £1 to the van driver:

June the 2nd., Thursday: Neston Institute, Neston
June the 4th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvernor Ballroom, Liscard
June the 6th., Monday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom, with Gerry and the Pacemakers
June the 9th., Thursday: Neston Institute
June the 11th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom.
June the 13th., Monday: Performance at manager Allan Williams' Jacaranda Club. It was drummer Tommy Moore's final appearance with the group
June the 16th., Thursday: Neston Institute. Also performing are Keith Rowlands and the Deesiders
June the 18th., Saturday. Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Paul's 18th. birthday)
June the 23rd., Thursday: Neston Institute
June the 25th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom
June the 30th., Thursday: Neston Institute (=Rosetti Solid 7 HP agreement date)


 ??? ??? ???

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 11, 2010, 10:35:55 PM
Mr. George Borthwick has just sent to me these photos, taken last Saturday. They are the Dalrymple Hall in Fraserburgh, where the Silver Beetles backed Johnny Gentle in 23 May 1960, and the Rescue Hall in Peterhead, where they backed Johnny Gentle in 28 May 1960. As I told you, Mr. George Borthwick attended both performances...

Best,

Xosé

(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7267/fraserburgh.jpg) (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/fraserburgh.jpg/)

(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5444/peterhead.jpg) (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/peterhead.jpg/)
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on May 12, 2010, 08:22:12 AM
Great pics!
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 12, 2010, 03:23:25 PM
A little bit of more -and VERY interesting- info from Mr. George Borthwick:

"...I remember the guitars & Paul being left handed, I had never seen a left handed guitar player before. John was loudest vocally. I hardly noticed the others.I got a surprise when I went to the Rescue Hall and 'Ho, thats the same group I saw a few days ago'..."

Fantastic!!  ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 18, 2010, 12:19:15 PM
Another view of the Dalrymple Hall in Fraserburgh -where the Silver Beetles backed Johnny Gentle in 23 May 1960- sent today by Mr. George Borthwick...

Best,

Xosé

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2836/dsc00254a.jpg) (http://img204.imageshack.us/i/dsc00254a.jpg/)
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on May 18, 2010, 01:10:43 PM
It looks as if it's closed down. Still no pictures of May 1960? lol
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on May 18, 2010, 01:55:03 PM
It looks as if it's closed down. Still no pictures of May 1960? lol

No: unfortunately, no pictures of May 1960. But Mr. George Borthwick is a VERY VERY VERY helpful man. IMHO these pieces of info he is providing -and me uploading- are very interesting to all those interested in Beatles early history...

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on June 01, 2010, 07:02:35 AM
They are. Thanks for the update Xose.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on June 01, 2010, 09:04:30 AM
Another little piece of info Mr. George Borthwick has just sent to me regarding his attendance of Johnny Gentle and The Silver Beetles performances in Fraserburgh and Peterhead 23 & 28 May 1960:

"...I'll try and answer your questions best I can. I spoke to my friend but his memory is worse than mine in fact he went home early that night they were in Fraserburgh,
he never saw them in Peterhead.
Time-- 20-00/ 20-30 start. Finish 23-30/00-00 with short interval.
Attendance about 200.
Admission about 5/- or 6/-  ( thats 25% -30% of a £ ).
Songs played with Johnny Gentle I'm not sure. When they played alone I didn't recognise the songs. But now we know it must have been songs they had written  themselves, unknown songs, bear in mind pre- Beatles as we know them..."


Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on June 01, 2010, 10:48:30 PM
Today is 50 years (=half a century!!) of those historical six consecutive Thursday night shows at The Institute, on Hinderton Road, Neston, Wirral Peninsula, where The Silver Beetles played. Here there are two photos of the venue...

Best,

Xosé

(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2052/theinstituteneston.jpg) (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/theinstituteneston.jpg/)

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2964/theinstitutenestonii.jpg) (http://img526.imageshack.us/i/theinstitutenestonii.jpg/)
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on June 02, 2010, 10:17:39 AM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on June 02, 2010, 11:26:26 AM
Excellent!

Thank you!!  ;)

According to what I have found so far, Paul McCartney's first electric guitar (=his Rosetti Solid 7) was heard there for the first time...

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on June 02, 2010, 12:05:43 PM
Still on the case, right? Any eye witnesses from Nelson please report. ha2ha
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on June 02, 2010, 02:23:48 PM
Still on the case, right? Any eye witnesses from Nelson please report...


I'm trying with no success so far since ca. 2 months ago!! See here:

http://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Cheshire/Neston/CH64/Who-When-Why/Answers-to-Correspondents/160548-Did-Paul-McCartney-play-his-first-electric-guitar-in-Neston (http://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Cheshire/Neston/CH64/Who-When-Why/Answers-to-Correspondents/160548-Did-Paul-McCartney-play-his-first-electric-guitar-in-Neston)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: rowlypoly71 on April 23, 2012, 12:53:38 PM
Hello ,just came on to this site by accident ,my dad is keith rowlands who was the lead singer with the deesiders and he did play with them on more than one occasion, he has since told me that he is nearly 100% positive that paul was playing the rosetti on those faithfull nights , they also played on pauls 18 birthday together and there was a problem with the pa so paul asked my dad to sing a few numbers with the boys untill paul had sorted out the pa , if anyone wants to know anymore then i will pass it all onto my dad ,cheers for now
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on April 23, 2012, 02:38:00 PM
Welcome to the forums! That sounds like a great story and I'm pretty sure that Xosé and others are very curious about you and your dad's stories! Btw I checked the diary belonging to this forums and it says that your dad's band shared the bill with The Beatles on June 16th, two days before Pauls 18th birthday. But I wasn't there to confirm.
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: rowlypoly71 on April 23, 2012, 09:17:15 PM
Welcome to the forums! That sounds like a great story and I'm pretty sure that Xosé and others are very curious about you and your dad's stories! Btw I checked the diary belonging to this forums and it says that your dad's band shared the bill with The Beatles on June 16th, two days before Pauls 18th birthday. But I wasn't there to confirm.
hello ,if you look on google then you will find that there is a book that quotes that he played with them on the 16 and the 18 of june 1960,but there are so many times that all the bands at the time used to jam in a basement in liverpool ,like i say my dad remembers a lot but also has forgot a lot( its the age thing lol ) there old manager chris has a load of pictures of them which i will put on here soon ,cheers for looking
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Bobber on April 24, 2012, 07:30:17 AM
Looking forward to your pictures!
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: rowlypoly71 on April 25, 2012, 08:40:20 PM
hello bobber and xose,im going up to the wirral in june so i will get the copies of them then ,scan them and post them on here for you all to se , must say i did laugh when i saw them as dad looks so young lol ,speak to you all soon ,take care
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: peterbell1 on April 25, 2012, 10:58:38 PM
Looking forward to your pictures!

Me too!!!  ;yes
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on December 31, 2012, 10:22:13 AM
Me too!!!  ;yes

Me too!!! ;yes

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on December 31, 2012, 10:33:04 AM
Hello ,just came on to this site by accident ,my dad is keith rowlands who was the lead singer with the deesiders and he did play with them on more than one occasion, he has since told me that he is nearly 100% positive that paul was playing the rosetti on those faithfull nights...

Does this mean from the very beginning of June??  ???

Great!!  ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Ken Wood on January 15, 2013, 05:59:37 PM
Wow, what a research - and even though the subject is still not resolved it was great to hear more detail from the tour from people who were there and might not have told their story otherwise, so that alone was worth it!

I want to throw another theory up into the air: What if Paul had BOTH guitars with him on the tour and ALTERED playing them? This way it would be possible for some people seeing him play the Rosetti and others seeing him play the Zenith (or was it the Framus?).
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Ken Wood on January 15, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
Small correction: The Zenith IS a Framus model. I think I confused the Zenith Framus here with the McCartney "house" guitar, which is also believed to be a Framus.

Anyway, reading Mr. Borthwick`s account again I wonder....

"I'll do my best for you, it [Paul's guitar] was a FRAMUS Zenith model, at that time I had a
FRAMUS Capri model. I think George had a FUTURAMA, Stu a Hofner
semi-accoustic bass and I'm not sure about John but I think he had an EGMOND
(they were made in Holland)."

... what Egmond guitar he might have seen on John.?

As far as I know John didn`t play a Egmond (even though people on the Internet say his first guitar was one).
Eric Griffith and George Harrison did have Egmond guitars.
Did John have a back-up guitar with him - possibly borrowed from one of them?
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on January 15, 2013, 10:15:48 PM
Hello Ken Wood,

...what Egmond guitar he might have seen on John.?...

I think Mr. Borthwick referred to Lennon's Club 40. Remember that he was trying to recall facts that had happened more than 50 years before...

Best!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
Post by: Xose on January 16, 2013, 06:47:04 PM
(http://www.beatlesource.com/savage/1960/60.08.18%20indra/2.jpg)

(http://www.beatlesource.com/savage/1960/60.08.18%20indra/3.jpg)

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5233/1358361557304.jpg)

Xosé