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Author Topic: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?  (Read 14920 times)

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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2014, 04:46:52 PM »

That's fine Moogmodule, and I agree to it to some extent, but let's not fool ourselves that 2014 is a patch on 1964!
It would be a dis-service to 'the kids' themselves.

David Hepworth (respected music journalist) on his blog this week said this.....

'Amazing how often when you've got a choice between the old thing that you know will be great and the flashy new thing which you know will disappoint you choose the latter and end up wasting your time and money. Henceforth I shall try not to do that.'

He was talking about film but, frankly, he could have been talking about anything.

I agree with him.
Today I bought the reissue of 'The Cry of Love' by Jimi Hendrix and it is great, how could it not be?
Why on earth scratch around scraps now when the past was (and is) far more fertile?
No offence kids!
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tkitna

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2014, 07:08:54 PM »

That's fine Moogmodule, and I agree to it to some extent, but let's not fool ourselves that 2014 is a patch on 1964!
It would be a dis-service to 'the kids' themselves.

David Hepworth (respected music journalist) on his blog this week said this.....

'Amazing how often when you've got a choice between the old thing that you know will be great and the flashy new thing which you know will disappoint you choose the latter and end up wasting your time and money. Henceforth I shall try not to do that.'

He was talking about film but, frankly, he could have been talking about anything.


I feel he was awfully nearsighted here.  How do you know the new stuff disappoint if you never even try it?  I'll never understand that.

So in his mind, one should never try to find new music and instead always plop down Abbey Road to listen to because you know you already like that.  Doesnt make any sense.

Moogmodule

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2014, 09:19:35 AM »

That's fine Moogmodule, and I agree to it to some extent, but let's not fool ourselves that 2014 is a patch on 1964!
It would be a dis-service to 'the kids' themselves.

David Hepworth (respected music journalist) on his blog this week said this.....

'Amazing how often when you've got a choice between the old thing that you know will be great and the flashy new thing which you know will disappoint you choose the latter and end up wasting your time and money. Henceforth I shall try not to do that.'

He was talking about film but, frankly, he could have been talking about anything.

I agree with him.
Today I bought the reissue of 'The Cry of Love' by Jimi Hendrix and it is great, how could it not be?
Why on earth scratch around scraps now when the past was (and is) far more fertile?
No offence kids!

I don't think each era is necessarily equal in throwing up enduring, accomplished artists. And the sixties does seem to have produced an above average number of acts who maintain the interest of music lovers to this day. 

And I do think the Beatles were objectively unusual in their impact and quality of their product. The fact they hold so much interest decades after they were active suggests this.   I don't think it's just nostalgia. We can't attribute regard for Mozart on the fact that there's still people around who grew up when he was around.  ;)

But that doesn't mean there aren't good worthy acts from all eras. Just because Mozart is still revered doesn't mean Britten's and Strauss' operas are worthless.

And I don't expect the youth of today to favour the Beatles or Dylan over acts they discover. What I've found generally is that ones who have an interest in music beyond having a soundtrack to their youth tend to discover the classic acts for themselves.
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2014, 03:39:37 PM »

What a 19 year old does in 2014 is entirely up to him or her.

One thing, though, is that I don't buy the (oft said) idea that they're particularly adept at picking up on the older stuff. They're far more likely to be listening to dross like Michael Jackson than Captain Beefheart in my experience. It's more famous, and it's far more likely to be sold to them.

From my own point of view (and David Hepworth presumably has some sympathy with me here) I haven't heard all the Blue Note records of the 50s and 60s, and Fopp in London regularly has back catalogue items in stock for as little as £3!!

As a matter of course I'll get a Blue Note release at that price from 1958 or 1963 or 1968 without ever having heard it as I KNOW it is going to be quality.

There's another angle in all this for me, and that is that the 60s is a far more interesting era than now (space race, politics, cinema) and that ties up with the music of the time. It's also far more aesthetically pleasing in terms of design and fashion.
Check out those Blue Note album covers from the 50s and 60s, they've never been surpassed.
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Moogmodule

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2014, 09:37:53 PM »



One thing, though, is that I don't buy the (oft said) idea that they're particularly adept at picking up on the older stuff. They're far more likely to be listening to dross like Michael Jackson than Captain Beefheart in my experience. It's more famous, and it's far more likely to be sold to them.



That's probably right but in the Beatles and a few others case fame and quality went hand in hand. Admittedly only the true young music aficionado today would get into the deep cuts
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Moogmodule

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2014, 09:40:52 PM »

.

There's another angle in all this for me, and that is that the 60s is a far more interesting era than now (space race....

Don't get me started on the space race!  Was there ever a better time to be a young kid then when you had astronauts as the heros of the day? 
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Kevin

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2014, 07:10:29 AM »

Don't get me started on the space race!  Was there ever a better time to be a young kid then when you had astronauts as the heros of the day?

Oh please let's get started. I was born in 58, so the space race was a huge part of my childhood. I'm a sputnik kid.  Not just the excitement of men being hurled into space, but with the added frision of the Cold War and the spectre of Russian rockets on the moon! It really really mattered.

Amazing amazing times. I am so pleased to have grown up in the sixties - a life not dominated by television (didn't come on until the evening), you trusted all adults, you were encouraged to play in the street, nothing more exciting than the riot that was saturday morning at the movies. Glory days indeed
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Moogmodule

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2014, 07:27:18 AM »

Oh please let's get started. I was born in 58, so the space race was a huge part of my childhood. I'm a sputnik kid.  Not just the excitement of men being hurled into space, but with the added frision of the Cold War and the spectre of Russian rockets on the moon! It really really mattered.

Amazing amazing times. I am so pleased to have grown up in the sixties - a life not dominated by television (didn't come on until the evening), you trusted all adults, you were encouraged to play in the street, nothing more exciting than the riot that was saturday morning at the movies. Glory days indeed

I was a bit younger. I was in my first year of school in 69. But what a time. I remember my scrap book full of Apollo mission stuff. Every second magazine featured astronauts. "Commander Strongarm" hosted the kids show on channel 10 here in Oz. Magic for a kid. I wish my kids had that reach for the stars environment to grow up in. Even if it's more fantasy than reality.

I don't think I've quite given up on growing up to be an astronaut. Even at 50  :laugh:
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tkitna

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2014, 11:01:21 AM »

You guys are old.   ha2ha  The only space race that mattered to me was Han Solo getting away from the tie fighters in Star Wars while I was growing up.

oldbrownshoe

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2014, 07:29:12 PM »

It's almost a common phrase and has spawned a BBC 4 radio programme but.....erm.....I've never seen 'Star Wars', indeed I don't think I've seen a Hollywood blockbuster since 'The Godfather Part 2' (if that is a Hollywood blockbuster).
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Bobber

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2014, 10:18:40 AM »

In the army perhaps.
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Dcazz

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2014, 11:50:45 PM »

My Dad worked on Apollo and Minuteman heat shielding re entry material in the 60's!
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Mark Twain

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2014, 03:26:29 AM »

In the army perhaps.

Perhaps, but National Service had ended in Great Britain.  Here's what Paul said about that in Uncut March 2012:


Paul McCartney on The Beatles’ early days

What was the turning point for you?

"The end of National Service. Not just for me. For anyone of a certain age. Without that, there could have been no Beatles. To me, that was like God opening the Red Sea for Moses and the Israelites to come pouring through. It was like God decreed there would be no National Service. Well, that was extremely handy. Nice one, mate. That certainly changes things. It meant that we were the first generation for so many years that didn’t have that we’ll-make-a-man-of-you threat hanging over them. We weren’t going to be threaded through the system like so many before us. You have to remember that we’d watched all that happen to Elvis. Because, y’know, the army had kind of ruined Elvis. He’d been this ultimate rebel figure who we’d all worshipped. Then they made him cut his hair and he had to call everyone 'sir', and he was never really the same again. You can imagine that going into the army would have done it for us, too. Before we knew what was happening, we were like errant schoolkids off the leash. As The Beatles, we went off to Hamburg, which was still a bit black and white. But it was getting a little brighter. Then we came back to England and we were a proper working band. So we’d avoided this dreadful thing of having to get a job. Now we’d had a little practice and we were getting, well, quite good. And the colour began to fill into the whole thing. By that time, we were beginning to make a bit of a splash. We knew that we had a chance of making it."


And about Ringo:


You (and John) were like two sides of the same person?

"Well said. But the sides would switch. On the surface, I was very easy-going, always accommodating. That came easy to me. That’s how I’d been brought up. But, at certain times, I would very much be the hard man of the duo. At certain moments, I could bite. But that would be when no one outside the group was watching. John would allow me to take that role because it enabled him to drop his guard and be vulnerable. On the surface, he was this hard, witty guy, always on hand with a cutting witticism. He appeared caustic, even cruel at times. But really he was very soft. John was very insecure. He carried a lot of that from his upbringing, what with his father leaving when he was five. Then, of course, we’d both lost our mothers so we had that in common. Ultimately, we were equals. All The Beatles were equals. If things got too deep, Ringo would crack a one-liner and that kept us on a level. If things were getting too sentimental, John would harden it up. If John was getting too hostile, I’d soften it down. Then George was always on hand with his own kind of unique wisdom."

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2014, 03:44:18 AM »

.....I've never seen 'Star Wars'

Missed so much, you have my young padawan.
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2014, 07:57:26 AM »

Perhaps we should do a thread.....'things I've never done':

1. Watched a 'Star Wars' or 'Star Trek' film or any 'Superman'/'Spiderman'/'Wonder Woman'-type film.

2. Played a video game.

3. Gone to America.

4. Gone ski-ing.

5. Listened to 'Dark Side of the Moon'.

6. Seen Wayne Rooney - (a) have a good game for England while a Man. U. player, and (b) score a one-on-one with a goalkeeper (never happens, the commentator always says, '.....and Rooney must score', he never, ever does. Then the commentator goes, '.....we all would have put our house on Rooney scoring that'.....I wouldn't).
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tkitna

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2014, 10:25:01 AM »

5. Listened to 'Dark Side of the Moon'.

Its one of the most famous albums ever.  Have you never been intrigued?  I'm not saying its awesome and you must, but if a record receives that much praise, I usually have to at least check it out.

nimrod

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2014, 10:58:20 AM »

Its one of the most famous albums ever.  Have you never been intrigued?  I'm not saying its awesome and you must, but if a record receives that much praise, I usually have to at least check it out.


I always thought 'Us & Them' one of the greatest songs ever written

simple but just superb



Pink Floyd - Us and Them
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2014, 03:30:58 PM »

I take the opposite view, if a record is so successful/revered, indeed if anything is so successful/revered, it almost has to be NOT worth checking out. Exception which proves the rule.....The Beatles.

'Thriller' sold truckloads and, because they were releasing 45s off that for years, I KNOW that it's garbage.
I heard the thing by default!

In the case of 'Dark Side of the Moon' I just presume it is going to be rather dull and no explanation of it has ever piqued my interest. I prefer having an intimate knowledge of the stuff people ignore or don't know.....the 45s, 'A Saucerful of Secrets', 'More'.

Any other 'I've never done that.....s'?

I've never watched an HBO series/box set or seen live a 20/20 cricket match.
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Mr Mustard

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2014, 09:33:05 PM »

I take the opposite view, if a record is so successful/revered, indeed if anything is so successful/revered, it almost has to be NOT worth checking out. Exception which proves the rule.....The Beatles.

OBS you're straying dangerously close to the kind of closed mindset which leads some blinkered observers to presume that your exception to the rule - The Beatles - "were overrated" or "can't have been all that good" etc... poor fools are missing out, we know that, but if they'd drop their preconceptions and listen there's every chance they'd be pleasantly surprised....

Plenty of things which have garnered unstinting praise really are "that good". Pele and George Best really were great. So were Muhammad Ali and Elvis. Laurel & Hardy remain the world's favourite comedy double act - with good reason. There are many such exceptions besides The Beatles which prove the rule!

OK, I'd say these things have become scarcer in recent times, but whilst I agree with your dismissal of certain things which are held in too much reverence, you have a tendency to write off entire decades and surely you can appreciate there will be some stuff you are therefore overlooking? It's as if you are slightly frightened of discovering that something post-1969 might be impressive, and worried that this revelation would shatter your rigid world view.

There was some good stuff around in the 1970s (and - dare I say this - even the 1980s) and, great as the decade was, there was some crap around in the 1960s. To argue that the quality of everything from music to films to theatre etc all plunged off a cliff on January 1st 1970 is crazy!

All that said I'd have to say that "Dark Side Of The Moon" is for me vastly overrated. I've never understood its popularity - perhaps because others can appreciate things that pass me by? Maybe I'm missing out.


Any other 'I've never done that.....s'?

Brilliant idea for its own separate thread!! Can't you launch it in one of the general discussion sub forums? Could prove fascinating!
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nimrod

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Re: Where Would The Beatles Be Without Ringo?
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2014, 10:52:20 PM »

DSOTM overrated ?

Come on Mr M, get a grip

They were a cult band before this masterpiece

Yes its a concept album, but its not only packed with great songs like Breathe, Us & Them, Money etc but its a whole 'experience' a way of transcending yourself for 40 minutes - the perfect album imo. lyrically and musically :)

It was when the band worked together, Ricks keyboards/piano was just as important as Rogers lyrics and Daves guitar/singing
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