DM's Beatles forums

Other music forums => Various Artists, Lyrics, Discographies => Microscopes => Topic started by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 03, 2011, 02:09:43 AM

Title: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 03, 2011, 02:09:43 AM
This is another record which I consider that deserves its own Microscope: Forever Changes by Love, released at the end of 1967. A lost gem of the 1960’s, though it has got considerable appreciation over the years. The album is slightly psychedelic, it has an acoustic spirit but the electric guitars are still very present, and the lyrics are usually non-sense but still interesting. Arthur Lee was certainly a genius. It's said to be the American Sgt. Pepper's, and I tend to agree with that.

Alone Again Or. The virtual hit of the album if it would have had one. Everything is great here: from the gentle acoustic guitar parts to the crescendo singing to the wonderful orchestrated middle. Well done, Bryan MacLean.

A House Is Not A Motel. Probably my favourite song on the album. Love the line "the news today will be the movies of tomorrow". Bass and drums sound great. I especially love the instrumental end of the track, with an amazing dialogue between two electric guitars.

Andmoreagain. The great ballad of the album. The general feeling reminds me a bit to the Beatles' "Girl", with that Greek acoustic guitar playing. A highlight.

The Daily Planet. Yet another marvelous song with a marvelous intro. Apparently this track was mostly recorded by session musicians. Nevertheless, they did a great job. Guitars, bass and especially the drums sound wonderful. Can't help but playing air drums at the end of the song.

Old Man. The second and last MacLean's track. It's a nice ballad and I have nothing really bad to say about it, though somehow it loses some of the magic of the album.

The Red Telephone. Perhaps the most psychedelic track on the record. It's an interesting song though a bit silly and even more non-sense than the rest of the album. The line "count me out (in)" at 2:48 (at least that's what I hear) makes me wonder if John Lennon listened to it and got the idea to use that on "Revolution".

Maybe The People Would Be The Times Or Between Clark And Hilldale. A long non-sense title for a song that doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. The interesting thing about this song is that it's made of unfinished lines that are continued on the next section of the track. All those trumpets give the song a Latin feeling. At 1:43 it seems that Arthur sings sounding like a trumpet at the same time with a real trumpet, nice effect. Very good song.

Live And Let Live. Another favourite of mine. Love the long lead guitar playing, it deserves every second dedicated to it. I guess it was John Echols, good for him.

The Good Humor Man He Sees Everything Like This. Another long non-sense song title. The tune is quite beautiful and the orchestration suits very well. The end is quite weird, as if fragments of the orchestration were cut and then played without those parts.

Bummer In The Summer. Some have said that this may be the first rap song ever, but it actually sounds a lot like Jefferson Airplane's "Plastic Fantastic Lover", released earlier the same year. The song is good enough, though it's not one of the best of the album in my opinion.

You Set The Scene. The epic end of the album, built of several different sections, and it would be fair saying that it's the best song of the record. If Forever Changes is the American Sgt. Pepper's, this song is the American "A Day In The Life". I especially like the line "you think you're happy and you're happy, that's what you're happy for", quite silly but still true. The end of the song with those triumphant trumpets is magnificent. A masterpiece.

Nothing more to say about this masterpiece, just to recommend it to those who haven't listened to it yet.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 03, 2011, 03:03:21 AM
Hi Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! How are you? I LOVE the FOREVER CHANGES album by LOVE! This is definitely a great album! Here's one from the FOREVER CHANGES album, enjoy!

LOVE - Live and Let Live (lyrics included, 1967) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDaASFwIGDo#)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 03, 2011, 03:38:28 AM
This album had a huge & massive effect on me at the age of 16

I think it brought out some artistic tendencies or something, I couldnt stop playing it

Arthur Lee toured with the album before he died (obviously without the wonderfull Bryan McLean) Im very glad he did, I love the DVD.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 03, 2011, 04:34:02 AM
Great album. One of my top 5 for sure. I was just thinking though, that I cannot for the life of me turn any of my friends onto it for some reason. I believe they think that my taste in music is so weird that they dont give it a chance. Oh well.

I will review this one soon. Maybe tonight if work isnt too hectic.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 03, 2011, 05:30:24 AM
even just reading the names of the songs on the cover used to make me conjure up magical images and that photo on the back cover was  intriguing with the broken vase..

(http://www.minilps.net/images/stories/shop_image/product/LOVEBACK.jpg)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 03, 2011, 05:31:32 AM
I always wondered which one was Bryan Maclean
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 03, 2011, 03:37:19 PM
I always wondered which one was Bryan Maclean

I think he was the second guy, the blonde one with a moustache.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 03, 2011, 03:38:05 PM
(http://www.alohacriticon.com/images/alohapoprockfotos/love00.gif)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Joost on November 03, 2011, 07:40:25 PM
Great album. One of my top 5 for sure. I was just thinking though, that I cannot for the life of me turn any of my friends onto it for some reason.

I think that 'Forever Changes' just isn't a very accessible album. Ever since I got my copy about five years ago I've been listening to it once every few months, hoping that the quarter would finally drop, but so far it still hasn't. It's just the type of music I should like and I can hear that it's really good, but so far only 'Alone Again Or' and 'The Red Telephone' have managed to really sink in.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Joost on November 03, 2011, 07:45:29 PM
Something that I thought was interesting: Bryan MacLean was the half-brother of Maria McKee, who wrote two UK #1 hits in the 80s: 'A Good Heart' for Feargal Sharkey, and 'Show Me Heaven', which she recorded herself.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 03, 2011, 09:02:04 PM
I think that 'Forever Changes' just isn't a very accessible album. Ever since I got my copy about five years ago I've been listening to it once every few months, hoping that the quarter would finally drop, but so far it still hasn't. It's just the type of music I should like and I can hear that it's really good, but so far only 'Alone Again Or' and 'The Red Telephone' have managed to really sink in.

I actually think the record is more accessible than other contemporaneous albums of the time, like Jefferson Airplane's After Bathing At Baxter's or the Byrds' The Notorious Byrd Brothers. I even think that the production of Forever Changes is closer to Pet Sounds than other psychedelic albums. But sure it's an album that needs time to get into.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 03, 2011, 09:03:10 PM
Something that I thought was interesting: Bryan MacLean was the half-brother of Maria McKee, who wrote two UK #1 hits in the 80s: 'A Good Heart' for Feargal Sharkey, and 'Show Me Heaven', which she recorded herself.


(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_75OHs5etlos/SbKZ5q-_kZI/AAAAAAAAAU4/bE3YXkeOOt8/s400/bryanandmariacov.jpg)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 03, 2011, 09:21:27 PM
([url]http://www.alohacriticon.com/images/alohapoprockfotos/love00.gif[/url])


cheers Hombre  :)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 03, 2011, 09:24:14 PM
Here's another from LOVE! Enjoy!

Love - 10 - Bummer In The Summer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyOeBxTrlEc#ws)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 03, 2011, 09:54:29 PM
cheers Hombre  :)

Thanks. That was just a lucky coincidence while looking for a picture of Bryan. ;)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 04, 2011, 12:36:55 AM
'The Daily Planet' is my favorite.

Love - 04 - The Daily Planet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUX8nqsycmg#ws)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 04, 2011, 01:37:31 AM
Alone Again Or – Reminds me of a Mexican movie song with the horns and the mariachi style percussion and so forth. Nice beat and I love the acoustic guitar and bass. Drummer is solid throughout the entire album. Great trumpet solo with the strings accompanying. Nice song and album starter.

A House Is Not A Motel – Love the drums on this song. I’m going to start to learn this tune next week (I’ve decided). I enjoy the whole frantic, tense feeling the song gives off. Absolutely love the guitar and drums at the 2:20 mark. The ending is one of madness and panic with the dueling leads. I love this tune.

Andmoreagain – They slow it down a little bit here. Strings are gorgeous throughout. Love the drummer on this one too. His dynamics make the song in my opinion. Nice song.

The Daily Planet – My favorite on the album. When I first started listening to this album, this song reminded me of the Who for some reason. The bass and drums are killer once again. Great acoustic playing too. Lee’s voice is top notch. Middle section is nice, but too short. Left me wanting for more. Awesome tune.

Old Man – Another slower, melodic song. A powerful song in my opinion. Strings are fantastic as usual. Don’t have much more to add other than everybody should give it a listen.

The Red Telephone – Another great song. It’s hard for me to explain this song. It’s a slower tune, but with tremendous emotion. A song that demands the listener to do just that,,,listen. One that I enjoy a lot.

Maybe The People Would Be The Times Or Between Clark And Hilldale – Quick paced tune with heavy brass. Love the guitar playing and drums. Melodic as every song on this album seems to be. Another winner.

Live And Let Live – Awesome song here. Starts off with a trite feeling and then falls into an emotional outcry in the middle. One of my favorites. Guitar playing and drums are stellar as usual.

The Good Humor Man He Sees Everything Like This – Nice slower tune. Brass heavy again with plenty of strings, but don’t fool yourself into thinking this song is mundane. It doesn’t just sit around. It does have a few parts where the brass and drums play together at odd beats and you wonder if your CD has a skip. Don’t fret, it’s the way the song is. Weird and I probably wouldn’t have done that.

Bummer In The Summer – Great acoustic playing here. Piano adds too. Thumping tune that’s played well. Fun song. Byrds style guitar solo.

You Set The Scene – Probably my second favorite on the album. What a way to end an album. Drummer kicks once again. Check the bass playing too. Love the quick pace and the strings. 2:06 give me goosebumps for some reason and then the song falls into a somewhat monotonous segment, but yet its not annoying. Too powerful for that. Love this song.


Awesome album, but as I forewarn people who are just starting out with this record, a good bit of it sounds the same and that can be a turn off. I’m convinced if a fan of music gave this album 10 listens, he would be hooked without question. Definitely a top 5 for me.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 04, 2011, 01:41:00 AM
'The Daily Planet' is my favorite.

Love - 04 - The Daily Planet ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUX8nqsycmg#ws[/url])


Hi tkitna! How are you? Now you're talking, I love "The Daily Planet" also. Here's another from LOVE, take care and enjoy!

Love - 07 - Maybe the people would be the times or between Clark and Hilldale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBV91Cj8H5I#ws) 
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 04, 2011, 02:19:11 AM
Alone Again Or – Reminds me of a Mexican movie song with the horns and the mariachi style percussion and so forth. Nice beat and I love the acoustic guitar and bass. Drummer is solid throughout the entire album. Great trumpet solo with the strings accompanying. Nice song and album starter.

A House Is Not A Motel – Love the drums on this song. I’m going to start to learn this tune next week (I’ve decided). I enjoy the whole frantic, tense feeling the song gives off. Absolutely love the guitar and drums at the 2:20 mark. The ending is one of madness and panic with the dueling leads. I love this tune.

Andmoreagain – They slow it down a little bit here. Strings are gorgeous throughout. Love the drummer on this one too. His dynamics make the song in my opinion. Nice song.

The Daily Planet – My favorite on the album. When I first started listening to this album, this song reminded me of the Who for some reason. The bass and drums are killer once again. Great acoustic playing too. Lee’s voice is top notch. Middle section is nice, but too short. Left me wanting for more. Awesome tune.

Old Man – Another slower, melodic song. A powerful song in my opinion. Strings are fantastic as usual. Don’t have much more to add other than everybody should give it a listen.

The Red Telephone – Another great song. It’s hard for me to explain this song. It’s a slower tune, but with tremendous emotion. A song that demands the listener to do just that,,,listen. One that I enjoy a lot.

Maybe The People Would Be The Times Or Between Clark And Hilldale – Quick paced tune with heavy brass. Love the guitar playing and drums. Melodic as every song on this album seems to be. Another winner.

Live And Let Live – Awesome song here. Starts off with a trite feeling and then falls into an emotional outcry in the middle. One of my favorites. Guitar playing and drums are stellar as usual.

The Good Humor Man He Sees Everything Like This – Nice slower tune. Brass heavy again with plenty of strings, but don’t fool yourself into thinking this song is mundane. It doesn’t just sit around. It does have a few parts where the brass and drums play together at odd beats and you wonder if your CD has a skip. Don’t fret, it’s the way the song is. Weird and I probably wouldn’t have done that.

Bummer In The Summer – Great acoustic playing here. Piano adds too. Thumping tune that’s played well. Fun song. Byrds style guitar solo.

You Set The Scene – Probably my second favorite on the album. What a way to end an album. Drummer kicks once again. Check the bass playing too. Love the quick pace and the strings. 2:06 give me goosebumps for some reason and then the song falls into a somewhat monotonous segment, but yet its not annoying. Too powerful for that. Love this song.


Awesome album, but as I forewarn people who are just starting out with this record, a good bit of it sounds the same and that can be a turn off. I’m convinced if a fan of music gave this album 10 listens, he would be hooked without question. Definitely a top 5 for me.

Very good review tkitna. Thanks for sharing it.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 04, 2011, 05:46:46 AM
Very good review tkitna. Thanks for sharing it.

Not as in depth as yours, but this is your show. Great freaking record regardless. De Capo is awesome too and would rank higher in my list of Revelations wasnt there.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 04, 2011, 08:30:47 PM
Here's another from LOVE! Enjoy!

Love - You Set The Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icgu2mq50Ow#)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 09, 2011, 08:04:35 PM
Not as in depth as yours, but this is your show. Great freaking record regardless. De Capo is awesome too and would rank higher in my list of Revelations wasnt there.

You should make a Microscope of S.F. Sorrow. It would be interesting to listen to that record after reading your points of view. I promise that I would support your thread.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 10, 2011, 02:37:39 AM
You should make a Microscope of S.F. Sorrow. It would be interesting to listen to that record after reading your points of view. I promise that I would support your thread.

Consider it done. I was going to get around to that soon. Probably tomorrow.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Bobber on November 10, 2011, 09:08:13 AM
Remarkable that this thread gets as much replies as the microscope on Band On The Run. Makes me wonder what I'm doing around here.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 10, 2011, 08:03:45 PM
Remarkable that this thread gets as much replies as the microscope on Band On The Run. Makes me wonder what I'm doing around here.

Hi Bobber! How are you? Where did the forum go the last few days? I wrote you an email on the Beatle Forum hoping that you could tell me what happened. I'm just glad that the forum is back up and running.

In my opinion Bobber, I think that this thread gets more responses because this album (Forever Changes) is not as well known as the Band On The Run album. It might have been more popular years back but it has been a little forgotten as years went on. I am very thankful that Hombre_de_ningun_lugar refreshed my memory by writing a thread about the Forever Changes album, I haven't heard this album in a long time. Take care Bobber.   
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 10, 2011, 10:05:06 PM
Remarkable that this thread gets as much replies as the microscope on Band On The Run. Makes me wonder what I'm doing around here.

Yeah, i'm a little shocked at the reponse too. Only two pages for 'BOTR'. I thought that album would perk some people up. Doesnt look good for the future recordings, but you damn well that i'm interested.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 10, 2011, 10:44:10 PM
Im a little surprised by that too, Ive declared my dislike for Wings and Pauls solo output but I though Cors thread would have tons of replies...

I was a little disappointed with my songs/microscope thread as well, you spend an hour or two creating a thread and like 5 people reply  ha2ha

Im glad that Todds album threads did well though, and still alive !!
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Joost on November 10, 2011, 11:28:04 PM
Remarkable that this thread gets as much replies as the microscope on Band On The Run. Makes me wonder what I'm doing around here.

Love is a band that creatively peaked around the same time as The Beatles, and these were two bands that were simultaneously (although in Love's case on a smaller scale) pushing the limits of pop music. I personally think that if you're discussing The Beatles, their musical time context (which Love is also a small part of) is at least as interesting and relevant as their later solo albums.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 11, 2011, 12:57:04 AM
Love is a band that creatively peaked around the same time as The Beatles, and these were two bands that were simultaneously (although in Love's case on a smaller scale) pushing the limits of pop music. I personally think that if you're discussing The Beatles, their musical time context (which Love is also a small part of) is at least as interesting and relevant as their later solo albums.

I feel the same way. I find much more attractive the music released by artists that were contemporaneous to the Beatles than the post-Beatles solo recordings. I've said this before, I think that a true fan of the Beatles music rather than the names should be more interested in the 1960's music than the solo careers. Nevertheless, I see Bobber's point as this is still a Beatles forum, and I also would have expected more participation in that Paul's thread.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 11, 2011, 01:36:22 AM
after watching the Scorcese doco Im beginning to thing George wrote the best post Beatles songs
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: 7 of 13 on November 11, 2011, 02:57:42 AM
after watching the Scorcese doco Im beginning to thing George wrote the best post Beatles songs
excellent observation nimrod. more or less my worldview as it applies to post-beatles music and output, that is if you can just magically strip away Lennons and McCartneys blockbuster solo albums.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 11, 2011, 03:15:21 AM
after watching the Scorcese doco Im beginning to thing George wrote the best post Beatles songs

Hi mate! How are you? After listening more to George's songs, I'm starting to feel the same way. Since George looked up to John so much, in my opinion, George really tried to write songs like John. Then again, its only fitting and natural that George would grow and blossom into a great songwriter, he learned from the best, Lennon/McCartney! Take care.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 11, 2011, 03:38:36 AM
this is a magical song..

well done lovely George.

Eric Clapton - Beware Of Darkness (Concert For George)(HQ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8MlS0vu7gE#)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 11, 2011, 04:14:48 AM
George's All Things Must Pass album is equal or better than the best solo works by John and Paul. However his other records never were close to that level. John is my favourite solo Beatle, I think he gave the best material from 1970 to 1975, which is the most substantial period for all ex-Beatles solo careers. Anyway, John only released two truly great albums (Plastic Ono Band and Imagine) plus some good albums with a couple of classic songs and several fillers.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 11, 2011, 09:01:27 AM
George's All Things Must Pass album is equal or better than the best solo works by John and Paul. However his other records never were close to that level. John is my favourite solo Beatle, I think he gave the best material from 1970 to 1975, which is the most substantial period for all ex-Beatles solo careers. Anyway, John only released two truly great albums (Plastic Ono Band and Imagine) plus some good albums with a couple of classic songs and several fillers.

We are in agreement here Hombre  :)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 11, 2011, 02:47:31 PM
George's All Things Must Pass album is equal or better than the best solo works by John and Paul. However his other records never were close to that level. John is my favourite solo Beatle, I think he gave the best material from 1970 to 1975, which is the most substantial period for all ex-Beatles solo careers. Anyway, John only released two truly great albums (Plastic Ono Band and Imagine) plus some good albums with a couple of classic songs and several fillers.


Hi Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! I agree with both you and nimrod, the ALL THINGS MUST PASS album is equal or better than the best solo works by John and Paul. The ALL THINGS MUST PASS album is a rare album seeing that it contains different styles of music including Folk Rock and Hard Rock. I also agree that George's later albums were never on the same level musically as the ALL THINGS MUST PASS album.

Here's a song from LOVE, enjoy!

Love - 03 - Andmoreagain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GTSSQgWLR8#ws) 
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: 7 of 13 on November 11, 2011, 05:03:41 PM
this is a magical song..

well done lovely George.

Eric Clapton - Beware Of Darkness (Concert For George)(HQ) ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8MlS0vu7gE#[/url])
that brought a tear to my eyes. thank you nimrod, ain't nobody can play like eric clapton.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 11, 2011, 09:42:50 PM
I've said this before, I think that a true fan of the Beatles music rather than the names should be more interested in the 1960's music than the solo careers.

Why? I dont agree with that at all. I think your just trying to defend your personal point of view of their solo efforts. I dont think Beatle fans have a duty to listen to the solo efforts, but if the names are enough to open the ears of some listeners, maybe they'll come away liking what they heard. If not, no big deal. I find a lot of the solo efforts to be more interesting than actual Beatle albums.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 11, 2011, 09:59:44 PM
George's All Things Must Pass album is equal or better than the best solo works by John and Paul.

I think it was superior to anything John and Paul put out, but thats only my opinion.


Quote
John is my favourite solo Beatle, I think he gave the best material from 1970 to 1975,

I think he has the worst. When I listen to Johns solo stuff, I come away feeling depressed, angry, and just not liking him because he comes across as self absorbed. Everythings about him. His mother died when he was young, so what. At what point do you move on? George's stuff at least lent itself to being sincere and not the pity party John would have us all feel for him. Pauls stuff was just musically superior. It was fuller and more involved.
 
I truly thinks Johns solo stuff is what caused me to stop and look at the man more so than the music. I came away not caring for who I met.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 11, 2011, 10:30:10 PM
Why? I dont agree with that at all. I think your just trying to defend your personal point of view of their solo efforts. I dont think Beatle fans have a duty to listen to the solo efforts, but if the names are enough to open the ears of some listeners, maybe they'll come away liking what they heard. If not, no big deal. I find a lot of the solo efforts to be more interesting than actual Beatle albums.

You may be right about me trying to defend my point of view, but well, that's what all we do. But beyond my subjective opinion about their solo careers, I think that just for historical relevance and impact in rock music it's much more important to look for other 1960's artists rather than the solo records. Beatles fans usually do the opposite (I know that's not your case). Some may say that a "true" Beatles fan should even get Electronic Sound. I think that someone who really appreciates the Beatles music will find much more looking at the context of their time rather than trying to get every solo Beatles record just to say "my collection is complete". The Beatles were the most important part of something bigger, and you can't understand the Beatles music if you don't understand the 1960's phenomenon.

About you liking more some solo records than actual Beatles albums, was it always that way? Or are you just tired after listening to the Beatles so many times? Did the solo albums have a bigger impact in your life than the actual Beatles records?
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 11, 2011, 11:11:04 PM
George's All Things Must Pass album is equal or better than the best solo works by John and Paul. However his other records never were close to that level. John is my favourite solo Beatle, I think he gave the best material from 1970 to 1975, which is the most substantial period for all ex-Beatles solo careers. Anyway, John only released two truly great albums (Plastic Ono Band and Imagine) plus some good albums with a couple of classic songs and several fillers.

I think thats true mate....Imagine is of course THE album everyone regards as his best but I prefer Plastic Ono Band, especially the lyrics,
 
'they hate you if your clever and they despise a fool'

'Remember when you were young, how the hero, was never hung'

'I was the dreamweaver, but now Im reborn, I was the walrus but now Im John'

Just a selection of what I love about this album, I think to write music about whats going on in your very soul and express what that is is truly artistic, I dont think even Dylan couldve written this album.
Todd is right that it is self absorbed, but theres only one song called Mother.....and didnt every great artist paint a self portrait ?
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 11, 2011, 11:12:54 PM
I think it was superior to anything John and Paul put out, but thats only my opinion.

I tend to agree, it's a shame that other George's records weren't that great, or at least that's my opinion.

Quote
I think he has the worst. When I listen to Johns solo stuff, I come away feeling depressed, angry, and just not liking him because he comes across as self absorbed. Everythings about him. His mother died when he was young, so what. At what point do you move on? George's stuff at least lent itself to being sincere and not the pity party John would have us all feel for him. Pauls stuff was just musically superior. It was fuller and more involved.
 
I truly thinks Johns solo stuff is what caused me to stop and look at the man more so than the music. I came away not caring for who I met.

Well, we have different tastes here, even though we share some tastes about some records (Forever Changes is an example). Since I became a fan of the Beatles, John's songs were always my favourite ones, so I've always paid more attention to his solo career. Nevertheless, my favoritism didn't change when I gave a try to the other ex-Beatles careers. Paul's solo career was too lightweight to my ears, and I care too much about the lyrics to forgive his silly stuff; George never developed after his marvelous All Things Must Pass, and even that record is over-produced beyond its geniality, I tend to dislike that; and Ringo, well, he's Ringo. Now, I think that John's lack of virtuosity and new musical ideas is compensated by his superior songwriting, and if we just talk about the music I also prefer his style. Plastic Ono Band is very touching, even if I don't agree with several of his sentences, it's John showing us how he was and felt; it may not mean anything to others, but those who care about sincerity take notice; Imagine is much more than just a great peace anthem, I think the whole album is great, especially the ballads; and Mind Games, Walls And Bridges and Rock 'N' Roll have enough good material for those who love John's music. I don't care too much about Double Fantasy, but John was not the same at that point, and I don't blame him, he had grown up.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 11, 2011, 11:22:26 PM
I think thats true mate....Imagine is of course THE album everyone regards as his best but I prefer Plastic Ono Band, especially the lyrics,
 
'they hate you if your clever and they despise a fool'

'Remember when you were young, how the hero, was never hung'

'I was the dreamweaver, but now Im reborn, I was the walrus but now Im John'

Just a selection of what I love about this album, I think to write music about whats going on in your very soul and express what that is is truly artistic, I dont think even Dylan couldve written this album.
Todd is right that it is self absorbed, but theres only one song called Mother.....and didnt every great artist paint a self portrait ?

Actually I think that Plastic Ono Band has more recognition than Imagine, at least among rock critics. And what you say it's true, it's an under-produced masterpiece with John crying his soul, even if, as I said, I don't agree with some of his sentences.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 12, 2011, 01:53:31 AM
You may be right about me trying to defend my point of view, but well, that's what all we do.

Good point. Of course your right.


Quote
I think that just for historical relevance and impact in rock music it's much more important to look for other 1960's artists rather than the solo records.

Trust me, i'm always looking for that needle in the haystack and I come up empty more often than not, but i'm not sure I can agree with you or really understand your point here. I know the solo efforts are easily obtainable, but I dont know if searching out other 60's artists to fully understand the 60's is really important. Listen to what you like and go from there.

Quote
Some may say that a "true" Beatles fan should even get Electronic Sound.

I hear what your saying. I dont have the stupid sh*t like 'Life With The Lions' and 'Electric Sound', but I have the rest. As a youth, I thought I would automatically like all of the solo stuff because I liked the Beatles, so I bought it all. Of course that wasnt correct. Thats why I question Gary when he says he likes all the Beatle songs. Maybe he does. I just find that hard to believe.

Quote
The Beatles were the most important part of something bigger, and you can't understand the Beatles music if you don't understand the 1960's phenomenon.

I think this is more historical than musical though. To understand the Beatles, read a book. To enjoy them, listen to an album. Its black and white to me.

Quote
About you liking more some solo records than actual Beatles albums, was it always that way?

Sure. I knew from the first listen that I liked 'RAM', 'All Things Must Pass', and 'Ringo' (examples) more than 'Beatles For Sale', 'Let It Be', and 'With The Beatles'. There wasnt even a question.

Quote
Or are you just tired after listening to the Beatles so many times?

I'm just as tired of the solo stuff as I am the Beatle albums at this point and my opinion still stands, so I would say no.

Quote
Did the solo albums have a bigger impact in your life than the actual Beatles records?

Some of them I would say. When I was in college and smoking a lot of dope, my friends and I had a much better time listening to 'Back To The Egg' and other solo efforts then some Beatle albums. Not all of course, but some.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 12, 2011, 01:57:16 AM
Todd is right that it is self absorbed, but theres only one song called Mother.....and didnt every great artist paint a self portrait ?

Yeah, but damn Kev. Johns been whining and doing that since 1964. When is enough enough?
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 12, 2011, 02:07:03 AM
I tend to agree, it's a shame that other George's records weren't that great, or at least that's my opinion.

We share the same opinion. I needed a Jim Keltner fix so I threw in some 'Living In The Material World' and although its probably considered his 2nd best album, I find only half of it to be interesting. I have a soft spot for 'Extra Texture', but I know what it is.

Quote
I don't care too much about Double Fantasy, but John was not the same at that point, and I don't blame him, he had grown up.

The very reason why I do like his output here. He seemed happy to me and that was a different John than what I was used to. His death was such a bummer becuase I was so looking forward to hear what music was to come. I know I would have loved it.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 12, 2011, 02:33:07 AM
Good point. Of course your right.

At least we agree on this. ;D

Quote
Trust me, i'm always looking for that needle in the haystack and I come up empty more often than not, but i'm not sure I can agree with you or really understand your point here. I know the solo efforts are easily obtainable, but I dont know if searching out other 60's artists to fully understand the 60's is really important. Listen to what you like and go from there.

I think that the sense of what I've tried to say was a bit lost. In any case, listening to a solo Beatles album doesn't stop you to listen to other music, like 1960's bands, though it quits you time and money that you could you use in other way. My intention was to make a difference between artist and art. If you think the artist is more important than the art, then the name becomes more important than the quality, and you'll prefer to listen to a crappy record by your idol than a masterpiece by your ignored artist. Maybe I don't have a completist mind, and just look for what I think is valuable.

Quote
I hear what your saying. I dont have the stupid sh*t like 'Life With The Lions' and 'Electric Sound', but I have the rest. As a youth, I thought I would automatically like all of the solo stuff because I liked the Beatles, so I bought it all. Of course that wasnt correct. Thats why I question Gary when he says he likes all the Beatle songs. Maybe he does. I just find that hard to believe.

That's good and I respect that. I've listened to most albums ex-Beatles released during the 1970's, and I really liked a few of them. I must say that I didn't listen to most stuff released during the 1980's and afterwards, since I didn't like at all the few things I've listened, and I wasn't interested to listen to more of that.

Quote
I think this is more historical than musical though. To understand the Beatles, read a book. To enjoy them, listen to an album. Its black and white to me.

I don't exactly disagree with you, but my view of the Beatles music changed when I started to listen to other 1960's bands; on one side it made me understand their importance as innovators, and on the other side it made me see that they weren't the only musical revolutionaries.

Quote
Sure. I knew from the first listen that I liked 'RAM', 'All Things Must Pass', and 'Ringo' (examples) more than 'Beatles For Sale', 'Let It Be', and 'With The Beatles'. There wasnt even a question.

Well, I also find Plastic Ono Band, Imagine, Band On The Run and All Things Must Pass to be more consistent albums than Please Please Me, With The Beatles, Beatles For Sale and Let It Be (not to mention Yellow Submarine), but in my case those are just exceptions that confirm the rule.

Quote
I'm just as tired of the solo stuff as I am the Beatle albums at this point and my opinion still stands, so I would say no.

Ok.

Quote
Some of them I would say. When I was in college and smoking a lot of dope, my friends and I had a much better time listening to 'Back To The Egg' and other solo efforts then some Beatle albums. Not all of course, but some.

In my case, no other music had the impact the Beatles had on me, they really opened my mind and defined me. Now, after listening to their records so many times, I may enjoy more other music that is fresher to my ears, but when I rate an album I consider the effect it had on me at first listen. That's why I think that Rubber Soul will always be my very favourite album.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 12, 2011, 02:40:07 AM
The very reason why I do like his output here. He seemed happy to me and that was a different John than what I was used to. His death was such a bummer becuase I was so looking forward to hear what music was to come. I know I would have loved it.

Well, it seems that I prefer the sad John. It's said that poets need pain to do their art. ;D
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 12, 2011, 03:07:17 AM
Yeah, but damn Kev. Johns been whining and doing that since 1964. When is enough enough?

at least with Help he got away from I love you, she loves me, she loves you, I'll get you, love me do etc etc

and if I could gaim world adulation and endless riches by whining, Id whine  ha2ha
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 12, 2011, 06:06:53 AM
at least with Help he got away from I love you, she loves me, she loves you, I'll get you, love me do etc etc

and if I could gaim world adulation and endless riches by whining, Id whine  ha2ha

I understand, but he just seemed like a really depressed person to me and it gets exhausting after awhile. I dont think he was happy unless he was depressed, and I feel he searched for different vehicles to get that feeling. If it wasnt his mom dying it was the band, or his marriage, or his weight, or his son, or Brians death, or the drugs, or the government, or etc,,,,,. See what I mean?

Yeah Paul wasnt as deep,,,,,,,Thank God!
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 12, 2011, 06:33:54 AM
In any case, listening to a solo Beatles album doesn't stop you to listen to other music, like 1960's bands, though it quits you time and money that you could you use in other way.

Yes, but how would you know if you liked it or not without listening to it or purchasing it? Same can be said about the other 60's bands. Usually you heard a tune or two on the radio, music store, or a friends house and based your decision on that. The internet wasnt always around. Now that it is though, I go searching for deep stuff. Sure makes it a lot easier.


Quote
If you think the artist is more important than the art, then the name becomes more important than the quality, and you'll prefer to listen to a crappy record by your idol than a masterpiece by your ignored artist. Maybe I don't have a completist mind, and just look for what I think is valuable.

I understand what your saying, I really do, but how do you come to the consclusion before trying stuff out? A few people told me that 'Forever Changes' was a masterpiece and I kept seeing its name popping up in discussions so I knew I had to have it. I bought it and when I first listened to it, I thought it was ehhh. It grew on me and now I agree with the status. That doesnt always happen though. Neutral Milk Hotels 'In The Aeroplane Over The Sea' is much daunted like 'Forever Changes' and I cant stand it. Regardless, I think the point i'm trying to make is even if music is from a familiar artist, you still have to experience it to know if your going to like it or not. Its ok to buy the solo efforts. You might just like them.

Quote
I don't exactly disagree with you, but my view of the Beatles music changed when I started to listen to other 1960's bands; on one side it made me understand their importance as innovators, and on the other side it made me see that they weren't the only musical revolutionaries.

I agree with this too. I'll be the first to say that I think the Beatles were the greatest, but when I toss on stuff from the Kinks, Stones, Byrds, Beach Boys, etc,,,I realize they werent alone.

Quote
In my case, no other music had the impact the Beatles had on me, they really opened my mind and defined me. Now, after listening to their records so many times, I may enjoy more other music that is fresher to my ears,

I do too, but sometimes you have to go back and see what the big deal was about. I'll throw on a Beatles album every now and then and realize how f***ing good they really were.

Quote
but when I rate an album I consider the effect it had on me at first listen. That's why I think that Rubber Soul will always be my very favourite album.

I rate my albums with how enjoyable they are after numerous relistens. I've probably heard 'Forever Changes' a thousand times and I still enjoy the p*ss out that record. I used to love Pink Floyd ecstatically and own all their albums, but now I can only stomach a handful of their songs at best from their entire catalog. Floyd had a huge impact on me years ago, but nothing now. Hey we're different. How cool is that?
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 12, 2011, 10:36:09 AM
Well, it seems that I prefer the sad John. It's said that poets need pain to do their art. ;D

Hi Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! What's happening? That's a very interesting point that may be true! Many of the Blues greats always believed that the only way you can sing the Blues is when you are feeling pain within yourself such as a broken heart. Peter Green said some years back that he had to stop singing the Blues because it was too painful. Take care. 
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 12, 2011, 02:16:33 PM
I understand, but he just seemed like a really depressed person to me and it gets exhausting after awhile. I dont think he was happy unless he was depressed, and I feel he searched for different vehicles to get that feeling. If it wasnt his mom dying it was the band, or his marriage, or his weight, or his son, or Brians death, or the drugs, or the government, or etc,,,,,. See what I mean?

Yeah Paul wasnt as deep,,,,,,,Thank God!

well I guess its how you look at john, to me he was the funniest Beatle by a mile, yeah he liked to sing about his feelings but I just really dig what he wrote, he was a true innovator with songs like Strawberry Fields, Norwegian Wood  and Tomorrow Never Knows etc I suppose for me he was it, numero uno, the guy I dug the most..
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 12, 2011, 06:03:59 PM
Here's another from LOVE, enjoy!

Love - 05 - Old Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeRDchwn_xk#ws)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 15, 2011, 12:43:51 AM
Yes, but how would you know if you liked it or not without listening to it or purchasing it? Same can be said about the other 60's bands. Usually you heard a tune or two on the radio, music store, or a friends house and based your decision on that. The internet wasnt always around. Now that it is though, I go searching for deep stuff. Sure makes it a lot easier.

Yes, of course it's much more easier with Internet, especially for a far away guy like me from Argentina. Probably I would never have known about a lot of music I love without Internet.

Quote
I understand what your saying, I really do, but how do you come to the consclusion before trying stuff out? A few people told me that 'Forever Changes' was a masterpiece and I kept seeing its name popping up in discussions so I knew I had to have it. I bought it and when I first listened to it, I thought it was ehhh. It grew on me and now I agree with the status. That doesnt always happen though. Neutral Milk Hotels 'In The Aeroplane Over The Sea' is much daunted like 'Forever Changes' and I cant stand it. Regardless, I think the point i'm trying to make is even if music is from a familiar artist, you still have to experience it to know if your going to like it or not. Its ok to buy the solo efforts. You might just like them.

I think it's nothing against their solo careers, it's just about time. I just don't like most music that came after the 1960's. I dig a few records from the 1970's by 1960's artists like the Who or the Stones but can't stand anything done in the 1980's and afterwards by anybody. So from my point of view, I can't see how someone who really likes the Beatles music can like most of their solo stuff, though that certainly sounds like a paradox. I know I didn't listen to everything, but a proof is enough to know I think. I did listen to the whole Cloud Nine album a couple of times and I truly knew that I hate it. But that's how I feel and we're all different, and that's alright.

Quote
I agree with this too. I'll be the first to say that I think the Beatles were the greatest, but when I toss on stuff from the Kinks, Stones, Byrds, Beach Boys, etc,,,I realize they werent alone.

Well, my point is that a true Beatles fan first should get records by such artists instead of the solo records, if the art is what really matters. Or at least that's what I would recommend to a new Beatles fan.

Quote
I do too, but sometimes you have to go back and see what the big deal was about. I'll throw on a Beatles album every now and then and realize how f***ing good they really were.

That happens to me as well.

Quote
I rate my albums with how enjoyable they are after numerous relistens. I've probably heard 'Forever Changes' a thousand times and I still enjoy the p*ss out that record. I used to love Pink Floyd ecstatically and own all their albums, but now I can only stomach a handful of their songs at best from their entire catalog. Floyd had a huge impact on me years ago, but nothing now. Hey we're different. How cool is that?

It's cool being different and sharing different points of view. But I think you have a great taste in music, I usually love most music you say you like.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 15, 2011, 12:53:04 AM
Because everyone has different preferences and/or tastes in music, that's what makes the world go round! I'm so versatile that I love so many bands in all styles of music.   
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 15, 2011, 01:00:45 AM
Hi Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! What's happening? That's a very interesting point that may be true! Many of the Blues greats always believed that the only way you can sing the Blues is when you are feeling pain within yourself such as a broken heart. Peter Green said some years back that he had to stop singing the Blues because it was too painful. Take care.

Yes, but I think that sadness is just about moments, as well as happiness. We all have sad and happy moments, some people may be more happy than other people, but we all pass for those moments. John surely had sad and happy moments as everybody. I guess sadness is more poetic than happiness, maybe because the deep soul is expressing when one is sad. I did write some songs and my more inspiring moments were when I felt sad.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 15, 2011, 01:08:51 AM
Yes, but I think that sadness is just about moments, as well as happiness. We all have sad and happy moments, some people may be more happy than other people, but we all pass for those moments. John surely had sad and happy moments as everybody. I guess sadness is more poetic than happiness, maybe because the deep soul is expressing when one is sad. I did write some songs and my more inspiring moments were when I felt sad.

The reason for this is because there is more feelings and emotions in sad and painful songs. You can almost feel the pain in powerful songs.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 15, 2011, 11:02:39 PM
I knew this singer/songwriter years ago, his beloved wife left him and he told me he wrote his best ever songs during that period..
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 15, 2011, 11:28:54 PM
I knew this singer/songwriter years ago, his beloved wife left him and he told me he wrote his best ever songs during that period..

Peter Green was the same way and so was Janis Joplin. Both of these performers sang with such conviction and emotion, you can't help but feel their pain in their music.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 16, 2011, 01:27:33 AM
Yeah...The (Peter) Green Manalishi was a case in point..
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 16, 2011, 01:42:04 AM
Yeah...The (Peter) Green Manalishi was a case in point..

I love that song! JUDAS PRIEST did a great version of that song.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 16, 2011, 03:14:31 PM
After going back and rereading this thread and thinking about it, i've come to the conclusion that i'm not a lover of the Blues. I like the Blues when some of my favorite artists go that route, but its not something I would go and search for or listen to just for the hell of it. I guess i'm depressed enough without the help.  ha2ha
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Joost on November 16, 2011, 05:02:20 PM
I'm not a fan of blues. I generally like my music either hard, fast and energetic, or soft, beautiful and melodic. Blues usually is neither.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 16, 2011, 05:43:12 PM
I'm very versatile when it comes to music in general, I love all styles of music, I especailly love the Blues, Gospel, Country and Bluegrass because all of these music styles would contribute in the beginnings of Rock n' Roll. If it wouldn't have been for Blues music and the British artists that idolized them, there would never have been a British Invasion in 1964.

It is true, the Blues sound (In the beginning) is neither hard, fast, energetic and/or soft, beautiful and melodic. However, the British changed all of that in the 1960's. Had it not been for the British bands in the 1960's, the Blues music would have died. Despite the pain in many Blues songs, the British artists added life to them by making the music hard, fast, energetic and/or soft, beautiful and melodic. THE YARDBIRDS, THE ROLLING STONES, THE KINKS, THE BEATLES, FLEETWOOD MAC (The Peter Green Years), CREAM and LED ZEPPELIN are perfect examples just to name a few. The Black artists from America would explore the Blues sound further by mixing the Blues sound with Gospel music and come up with Soul music in the 1960's which I love very much. 

Music is something that can't be forced upon ourselves, either we like it or we don't. Take care.

       
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 16, 2011, 06:21:39 PM
I'm not a big fan of pure Blues either, but I love Blues-based bands like the Yardbirds, the Stones and Cream. I especially love the way the Yardbirds did their experimental Blues around 1965-1966. It's like Tango in Argentina, I'm not a fan of the genre, but I dig the work done by experimental people like Astor Piazzolla. In fact, here Piazzolla is much more respected by Rock people than by pure Tango people.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 16, 2011, 06:51:38 PM
I should be ashamed of myself, I left out JOHN MAYALL & THE BLUESBREAKERS! Like THE YARDBIRDS, John Mayall produced some great guitarists!
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 16, 2011, 07:05:17 PM
I'm not a big fan of pure Blues either, but I love Blues-based bands like the Yardbirds, the Stones and Cream. I especially love the way the Yardbirds did their experimental Blues around 1965-1966. It's like Tango in Argentina, I'm not a fan of the genre, but I dig the work done by experimental people like Astor Piazzolla. In fact, here Piazzolla is much more respected by Rock people than by pure Tango people.

Hi Hombre_de_ningun_lugar! How's it going? Pure Blues music takes a while to get used to if you're not familiar with it. I love listening to the original Blues versions of "Crossroads," "Love In Vain" and "Travelling Riverside Blues" by the late great ROBERT JOHNSON because then you can really hear the results of what CREAM, THE STONES and LED ZEPPELIN contributed to those songs. Take care.   
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 16, 2011, 11:18:03 PM
I'm very versatile when it comes to music in general, I love all styles of music, I especailly love the Blues, Gospel, Country and Bluegrass because all of these music styles would contribute in the beginnings of Rock n' Roll. If it wouldn't have been for Blues music and the British artists that idolized them, there would never have been a British Invasion in 1964.

It is true, the Blues sound (In the beginning) is neither hard, fast, energetic and/or soft, beautiful and melodic. However, the British changed all of that in the 1960's. Had it not been for the British bands in the 1960's, the Blues music would have died. Despite the pain in many Blues songs, the British artists added life to them by making the music hard, fast, energetic and/or soft, beautiful and melodic. THE YARDBIRDS, THE ROLLING STONES, THE KINKS, THE BEATLES, FLEETWOOD MAC (The Peter Green Years), CREAM and LED ZEPPELIN are perfect examples just to name a few. The Black artists from America would explore the Blues sound further by mixing the Blues sound with Gospel music and come up with Soul music in the 1960's which I love very much. 

Music is something that can't be forced upon ourselves, either we like it or we don't. Take care.

     

very good post BF, I always think of it like this, The British bands you mentioned introduced white America to Blues, but in a more exciting form..

dont forget;
Ten Years After (Woodstock)
Wishbone Ash
The Pretty Things
Chicken Shack
Rory Gallagher
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 17, 2011, 12:22:50 AM
very good post BF, I always think of it like this, The British bands you mentioned introduced white America to Blues, but in a more exciting form..

dont forget;
Ten Years After (Woodstock)
Wishbone Ash
The Pretty Things
Chicken Shack
Rory Gallagher

Thanks mate! You hit it right on the dot mate, all the British did was bring the American Blues sound back to America but in a more exciting and Rockin' way! Its really hard to believe that the British bands idolized the Brues greats more than the Americans did and the Blues greats are from America. That's because white America was very prejudice against the black people, especially the black artists, and tried to keep them down. How sad! In reality, the British knew everything that there is to know about the Blues, that is until an African/Indian American from Seattle, Washington flew over to England in late 1966 and schooled all of the British guitarists with his blistering live performances. The guitarist's name is Johnny Allen Hendrix, later changed by his Father, the late Al Hendrix, to James Marshall Hendrix A.K.A. JIMI HENDRIX. And as the saying goes, and the rest is Rock n' Roll history! Take care mate.

Those are great bands you mentioned mate, especially TEN YEARS AFTER, WISHBONE ASH, CHICKEN SHACK and RORY GALLAGHER.     
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 17, 2011, 02:20:18 AM
oh and I dont think we mentioned the Animals
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 17, 2011, 02:55:47 AM
oh and I dont think we mentioned the Animals

Damn, how could I forget THE ANIMALS! Great band!
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: 7 of 13 on November 20, 2011, 09:41:03 PM
George's All Things Must Pass album is equal or better than the best solo works by John and Paul. However his other records never were close to that level. John is my favourite solo Beatle, I think he gave the best material from 1970 to 1975, which is the most substantial period for all ex-Beatles solo careers. Anyway, John only released two truly great albums (Plastic Ono Band and Imagine) plus some good albums with a couple of classic songs and several fillers.
i don't think that anything john did was filler, from run for your life to anything else in between.  i really do wonder where people get that loony conception from. nothing personal there Hombre de ningun lugar, but that is just how i feel.
 ;sorry
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 20, 2011, 09:58:07 PM
Here's another from LOVE!

Love - 02 - A House Is Not A Motel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufGk9wsXalc#ws)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: 7 of 13 on November 20, 2011, 10:37:39 PM
Nevertheless, my favoritism didn't change when I gave a try to the other ex-Beatles careers. Paul's solo career was too lightweight to my ears, and I care too much about the lyrics to forgive his silly stuff; George never developed after his marvelous All Things Must Pass, and even that record is over-produced beyond its geniality, I tend to dislike that; and Ringo, well, he's Ringo. Now, I think that John's lack of virtuosity and new musical ideas is compensated by his superior songwriting, and if we just talk about the music I also prefer his style.
Hi hombre de ningun lugar. i think you may need to take a closer listen to Cloud Nine. It includes the hit Got My Mind Set on You.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: 7 of 13 on November 20, 2011, 10:54:03 PM
I think thats true mate....Imagine is of course THE album everyone regards as his best but I prefer Plastic Ono Band, especially the lyrics,
 
'they hate you if your clever and they despise a fool'

'Remember when you were young, how the hero, was never hung'

'I was the dreamweaver, but now Im reborn, I was the walrus but now Im John'

Just a selection of what I love about this album, I think to write music about whats going on in your very soul and express what that is is truly artistic, I dont think even Dylan couldve written this album.
Todd is right that it is self absorbed, but theres only one song called Mother.....and didnt every great artist paint a self portrait ?
hi nimrod. yes of course, that was john being john, honest and upfront. between the two albums that is a super-tough comparison indeed. working class hero versus i don't want to be a soldier, a real tough choice to make imo.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 21, 2011, 01:19:31 AM
Here's another from LOVE!

Love - 09 - The Good Humor Man He Sees Everything Like This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04V2dKehETc#ws)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 22, 2011, 01:23:26 AM
i don't think that anything john did was filler, from run for your life to anything else in between.  i really do wonder where people get that loony conception from. nothing personal there Hombre de ningun lugar, but that is just how i feel.
 ;sorry

The fact that he released plenty of filler. The only thing loony would be to think everything he did was great. Nothing personal, but thats how the majority of music listeners feel.

Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 22, 2011, 02:27:02 AM
i don't think that anything john did was filler, from run for your life to anything else in between.  i really do wonder where people get that loony conception from. nothing personal there Hombre de ningun lugar, but that is just how i feel.
 ;sorry

John may be my very favourite musician ever, but that's mostly for what he did with the Beatles rather than for his solo career. That said, his solo career is my favourite one among ex-Beatles careers, though most of his albums are far from being masterpieces in my opinion. Now, when I say "filler" I don't exactly mean "bad", I just mean that a song is nothing special, though it could be quite enjoyable. "Mother", "Love", "Imagine", "Oh My Love", "Mind Games", "#9 Dream", those are special songs from my point of view.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 22, 2011, 02:32:28 AM
Hi hombre de ningun lugar. i think you may need to take a closer listen to Cloud Nine. It includes the hit Got My Mind Set on You.
 ;yes

I think I mentioned Cloud Nine before. I really dislike that record, and "Got My Mind Set On You" is probably the song I dislike the most. Sorry, I love George, but I can't help but hate 1980's over-production. It's just an artificial sound that I can't stand.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 22, 2011, 02:52:26 AM
Back to the Love topic, I'd like to dedicate a space to Bryan MacLean. I think he was a very good songwriter, overlooked by Arthur Lee's genius. Bryan never had more than one or two songs on each Love's album, probably because Arthur didn't let him to have more; but several of his not originally released songs have surfaced as demos on a record called Ifyoubelievein. These are the first two songs from that album:

Bryan MacLean "Barber John" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibqxz7k51UY#ws)

Bryan MacLean "Fresh Hope" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngqMCk_mWXY#ws)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 22, 2011, 02:54:03 AM
Here's a live one from ARTHUR LEE & LOVE!

Arthur Lee & Love - Andmoreagain (Live) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YknaRmORo0#ws)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Bobber on November 22, 2011, 08:05:10 AM
Remarkable that this thread gets as much replies as the microscope on Band On The Run. Makes me wonder what I'm doing around here.

On second thoughts, I decided to take a break for a while.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 22, 2011, 08:15:10 AM
On second thoughts, I decided to take a break for a while.

I've been looking for that thread everyday dangnabbit. Lets make it a short break Cor.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 22, 2011, 12:19:59 PM
Here's more of ARTHUR LEE & LOVE live!

Arthur Lee and Love - Forever Changes Concert (Alone Again Or & A House is Not a Motel) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tQspFesT3E#)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Bobber on November 22, 2011, 01:31:59 PM
I've been looking for that thread everyday dangnabbit. Lets make it a short break Cor.

When I checked the recent posts this morning it took me to page 4 before I found anything Beatles. I know, I know. But still.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: 7 of 13 on November 23, 2011, 07:23:15 PM
The fact that he released plenty of filler. The only thing loony would be to think everything he did was great. Nothing personal, but thats how the majority of music listeners feel.
oh holy chupacabra! sure everything he did was great, it's a shame that this simple realization is as easy as pie. something strong.  4ac

give another listen to the dexterized, chopped and totally butchered version of rubber soul if you don't believe me.

it's like picking your favorite beatle or favorite album or favorite song, it defies commonsense. the reality is it cant be done and even so, almost everyone will tend to disagree at some point or another.

and please by all means show me this tons and tons of unspeakable filler that you speak so gratuitously about, i'm wondering. john did alot of parody songs, i would hardly call that filler.
 ;yes

JOHN LENNON BED IN FOR PEACE REENACTMENT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKPzwKUJ278#)

Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: 7 of 13 on November 23, 2011, 07:26:28 PM
John may be my very favourite musician ever, but that's mostly for what he did with the Beatles rather than for his solo career. That said, his solo career is my favourite one among ex-Beatles careers, though most of his albums are far from being masterpieces in my opinion. Now, when I say "filler" I don't exactly mean "bad", I just mean that a song is nothing special, though it could be quite enjoyable. "Mother", "Love", "Imagine", "Oh My Love", "Mind Games", "#9 Dream", those are special songs from my point of view.
i do think that we are getting into dangerous territory here.
 ;sorry

john lennon Plays The Ukulele "its only love " (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcRuunnDW_4#)

I think I mentioned Cloud Nine before. I really dislike that record, and "Got My Mind Set On You" is probably the song I dislike the most. Sorry, I love George, but I can't help but hate 1980's over-production. It's just an artificial sound that I can't stand.
i honestly cannot see how one could not like that album in it's entirety, or find almost a spiritual george in every song.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 23, 2011, 09:29:21 PM
i honestly cannot see how one could not like that album in it's entirety, or find almost a spiritual george in every song.

It's the sound what I can't stand. But that's not only with that album, it's the same with most 1980's albums I've heard. I don't like the 1990's either, but I think the 1980's are even worse.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 24, 2011, 12:38:17 AM
It's the sound what I can't stand. But that's not only with that album, it's the same with most 1980's albums I've heard. I don't like the 1990's either, but I think the 1980's are even worse.

I agree Hombre, as I said I went to see the Moody Blues in the 80's and they sounded like a sequencing machine  ha2ha

I too dont like Cloud Nine

In fact 'Got My Mind Set On You' must rate among one of THE most annoying songs ever (after C Moon)
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 24, 2011, 05:23:29 PM
I agree Hombre, as I said I went to see the Moody Blues in the 80's and they sounded like a sequencing machine  ha2ha

I too dont like Cloud Nine

In fact 'Got My Mind Set On You' must rate among one of THE most annoying songs ever (after C Moon)

Yes, even the artists I love sucked in the 80's in my opinion. The 80's were everything the 60's weren't: Hair Metal, abuse of synthetizers, uninspiring songwriting, artificial sound, thanks God that Disco was over!
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 24, 2011, 11:10:41 PM
Yes, even the artists I love sucked in the 80's in my opinion. The 80's were everything the 60's weren't: Hair Metal, abuse of synthetizers, uninspiring songwriting, artificial sound, thanks God that Disco was over!

Although all wasnt bad in the UK.......Indie or independent rock(often described as alternative rock in the U.S.), was a scene that emerged out of post punk and new wave eschewing the major record labels for control of their own music and relying on local scenes or national sub-cultures to provide an audience. Having enjoyed some success a number of indie acts were able to move into the mainstream, including early indie bands Aztec Camera, Orange Juice and The Smiths, followed by The Housemartins and James. The C86 cassette, released in 1986 by NME and featuring such bands as The Wedding Present, Primal Scream, The Pastels, and the Soup Dragons, was a major influence on the development of indie pop and the British indie scene as a whole.
Other forms of alternative rock developed in the UK during the 1980s. Like the drug-fueled Madchester (Manchester) scene. Based around The Hacienda, a nightclub in Manchester owned by New Order and Factory Records, Madchester bands such as The Stone Roses and the Happy Mondays mixed acid house dance rhythms with melodic guitar pop.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 25, 2011, 02:03:21 AM
Although all wasnt bad in the UK.......Indie or independent rock(often described as alternative rock in the U.S.), was a scene that emerged out of post punk and new wave eschewing the major record labels for control of their own music and relying on local scenes or national sub-cultures to provide an audience. Having enjoyed some success a number of indie acts were able to move into the mainstream, including early indie bands Aztec Camera, Orange Juice and The Smiths, followed by The Housemartins and James. The C86 cassette, released in 1986 by NME and featuring such bands as The Wedding Present, Primal Scream, The Pastels, and the Soup Dragons, was a major influence on the development of indie pop and the British indie scene as a whole.
Other forms of alternative rock developed in the UK during the 1980s. Like the drug-fueled Madchester (Manchester) scene. Based around The Hacienda, a nightclub in Manchester owned by New Order and Factory Records, Madchester bands such as The Stone Roses and the Happy Mondays mixed acid house dance rhythms with melodic guitar pop.

Of course I'm not saying that everything was plain bad, it's the general spirit of the decade and its most iconic sounds what makes me scape from that time. And I grew up in the 1980's, neither that makes me like that decade, at least from the musical point of view.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: In My Life on November 25, 2011, 04:36:50 AM
after watching the Scorcese doco Im beginning to thing George wrote the best post Beatles songs

I've always felt that way. Even though Lennon and MCartney's songwriting collaboration decreased as time went on I think they needed each other's prescence or perhaps competition to write the way they did for the Beatles. George, on the other hand, was always on his own when it came to writing so becoming a solo artist wasn't much of a change. If anything I think it made him better. "All Things Must Pass" is an album I love more every time I hear it.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 25, 2011, 05:29:59 PM
and please by all means show me this tons and tons of unspeakable filler that you speak so gratuitously about, i'm wondering. john did alot of parody songs, i would hardly call that filler.
 ;yes


Gladly. I'll submit the list tonight at work. I'll even make a whole new topic in the Lennon section so its easy for you to find.

Quote
JOHN LENNON BED IN FOR PEACE REENACTMENT ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKPzwKUJ278#[/url])


By the way, posting this isnt doing you or John any favors. You know what Bed In For Peace did for John? It made him look like a fool. Sit back for a moment and think about it. Dont let your man love for him make you delusional either.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: tkitna on November 26, 2011, 02:01:32 AM
Gladly. I'll submit the list tonight at work. I'll even make a whole new topic in the Lennon section so its easy for you to find.

I gave it a thought and I am not doing this. I think 90% of Lennons solo material is sh*t, so whats the point?
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 26, 2011, 02:19:22 AM
I think 90% of Lennons solo material is sh*t, so whats the point?

I think the same about Paul's solo (or Wings) material. But I agree that John did a lot of fillers in his solo career.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 26, 2011, 10:46:02 AM
I've always felt that way. Even though Lennon and MCartney's songwriting collaboration decreased as time went on I think they needed each other's prescence or perhaps competition to write the way they did for the Beatles. George, on the other hand, was always on his own when it came to writing so becoming a solo artist wasn't much of a change. If anything I think it made him better. "All Things Must Pass" is an album I love more every time I hear it.

Yes IML, my problem is after ATMP he went downhill a bit, it was a fantastic record though..
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: 7 of 13 on November 26, 2011, 07:31:05 PM
I think I mentioned Cloud Nine before. I really dislike that record, and "Got My Mind Set On You" is probably the song I dislike the most. Sorry, I love George, but I can't help but hate 1980's over-production. It's just an artificial sound that I can't stand.
i merely intended that as a counter-example to your rather askew/absurd/blanket notion that all george solo albums are pure crap. i have to admit the only solo albums by harrison that i would really want in my collection are ATMP & Cloud Nine. seems to me i have heard 33 1/3 and thought it passable. having said that i don't think your blanket rejection of the album based on what you describe as 80's production values, is honest nor is it unbiased and is moot and rather telling. although i'll be the first to agree that the only thing remotely of interest that came out of the 80's music scene was speed/death metal bands and alternative rock. folk music got its usual kick in the pants, i suppose.
 ;sorry
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: nimrod on November 26, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
I gave it a thought and I am not doing this. I think 90% of Lennons solo material is sh*t, so whats the point?

think Todd just did a microscope on all the Lennon albums  ha2ha
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on November 27, 2011, 03:05:05 AM
i merely intended that as a counter-example to your rather askew/absurd/blanket notion that all george solo albums are pure crap. i have to admit the only solo albums by harrison that i would really want in my collection are ATMP & Cloud Nine. seems to me i have heard 33 1/3 and thought it passable. having said that i don't think your blanket rejection of the album based on what you describe as 80's production values, is honest nor is it unbiased and is moot and rather telling. although i'll be the first to agree that the only thing remotely of interest that came out of the 80's music scene was speed/death metal bands and alternative rock. folk music got its usual kick in the pants, i suppose.
 ;sorry

I didn't say that all George solo albums are crap, I just said that he never repeated the greatness of All Things Must Pass. Particularly, Cloud Nine was a bad counter-example if you wanted to convince me because I really dislike that record (and believe me, I'm being honest in my appreciation if not unbiased). But I dig other of his 1970's works like Living In The Material World, Dark Horse and Extra Texture. I don't think they are great but I find them to be pretty decent records. Peace.
Title: Re: Microscope: Forever Changes (Love)
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 29, 2011, 09:43:33 PM
Here's more Live Arthur Lee & LOVE!

Arthur Lee & Love - You Set The Scene (Live) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BiC7AzlRiI#ws)