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Author Topic: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday  (Read 829 times)

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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2017, 11:41:38 PM »

I still disagree with this assertion.

In your last post I think you've changed your mind since you now say it's subjective, which it most certainly is.

Myself I think the whole point of a UK double A side was NOT to have "a virtual A side".

There's also the argument of which song has the first reference number on the side of the single. Strawberry Fields (18415) comes before Penny Lane (18416) BUT We Can Work It Out (18341) comes before Day Tripper (18342). So there again your subjective "intuition" is fallacious.

I shouldn't have said they were virtual A-sides; I meant to say that those songs got more airplay in UK. I understand that the fact was true for "Day Tripper"; but apparently I was wrong about "Strawberry Fields Forever". So the correct comparission with "Let's Spend The Night Together"/"Ruby Tuesday" would be "Day Tripper"/"We Can Work It Out", since the first ones got more airplay in UK and the second ones got more airplay in US. If the Stones' record was actually a double A-side single, is not an important matter to build my point.

With regard to the reference numbers, that's an interesting point. Because the CD singles releases put both "We Can Work It Out" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" as track #1 in each disc. Thus, I guess that they used those reference numbers to decide the order of songs from double A-side singles in the CDs.
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2017, 11:54:34 PM »

I've also read that the Beatles preferred "We Can Work It Out" over "Day Tripper". But that's another point, because I was referring to airplay when I said that "Day Tripper" was treated as the virtual A-side in UK, not by the Beatles but by radio stations.

That was my original point when I made the comparisson with the Stones' single. But the point was later missed due to the double A-sides discussion.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 11:56:54 PM by Hombre_de_ningun_lugar »
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zipp

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2017, 12:23:41 AM »

I've also read that the Beatles preferred "We Can Work It Out" over "Day Tripper". But that's another point, because I was referring to airplay when I said that "Day Tripper" was treated as the virtual A-side in UK, not by the Beatles but by radio stations.

I honestly don't remember which was played most on UK radio. You have to remember that at the time there was very little pop music on the radio and the BBC had a virtual monopoly. The situation was very different in the US.

The story of Day Tripper is that John wanted it as the A side but Paul wanted We Can Work It Out so the double A side was a compromise. I think We Can Work It Out was more popular nearly everywhere in the world. If you look at the booklet that came with ONE, they show four sleeves for the single. Three of them have We Can Work It Out as the first listed song and the other one is Japanese...which I don't understand.
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2017, 02:43:58 AM »

I honestly don't remember which was played most on UK radio. You have to remember that at the time there was very little pop music on the radio and the BBC had a virtual monopoly. The situation was very different in the US.

The story of Day Tripper is that John wanted it as the A side but Paul wanted We Can Work It Out so the double A side was a compromise. I think We Can Work It Out was more popular nearly everywhere in the world. If you look at the booklet that came with ONE, they show four sleeves for the single. Three of them have We Can Work It Out as the first listed song and the other one is Japanese...which I don't understand.

I cannot remember that fact because I didn't live in UK in 1965/66. In fact, I was born in 1978 and I've always lived in Argentina. But I'm telling what I've read, that "Day Tripper" got more airplay than "We Can Work It Out" in UK. Whether that information was right or wrong, I cannot tell; at least I remember reading that. I should find the source.

With regard to the Beatles opinions on both songs, these are fragments from The Beatles Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn:

Quote
Interviewed in 1966, John and Paul admitted that 'Day Tripper' was a "forced" composition, written under the pressure of having to come up with a single. Again, it doesn't show, at least not to an outsider. Other songwriters would have been mighty proud to have come up with a song like that.

Quote
The second song for the next single. Asked in 1966 whether this one, like its associate 'Day Tripper', was "forced" John and Paul were emphatic in their reply. "No." 'We Can Work It Out' showed complete mastery of the two-minute pop song and is another example of typical Beatles 1965 fare, excellent musicianship being allied with a new lyrical direction, in this instance John's downbeat choruses providing the perfect foil for Paul's positive optimism.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 02:45:30 AM by Hombre_de_ningun_lugar »
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zipp

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2017, 03:06:50 PM »

The Beatles wrote a lot of songs to order and under pressure. Some of their best songs in fact, so I don't see why that's important.

In any case the pressure may have been exaggerated.The following interesting site says

 "The “pressure” was probably due to this being an attempt at writing their next single, which both John and Paul admitted in a 1966 interview that the composition was "forced."  However, when asked later that year to re-confirm this, they denied it."

http://www.beatlesebooks.com/day-tripper

And here's another quote from the same site saying the Beatles preferred Day Tripper :

'George Martin explained at the time:  “After we gave both titles to EMI, the boys decided that they preferred ‘Day Tripper,’ but both sides are extremely good and worth a lot of plays.  As far as EMI’s official policy is concerned, there is no A-side, and both will be promoted equally.” '

This is the opposite opinion to yours when you say "I've also read that the Beatles preferred "We Can Work It Out" over "Day Tripper".

I'll take George Martin's point of view.
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2017, 12:25:07 AM »

No, you're wrong. It was not my opinion, it was my interpretation according to Mark Lewisohn's book. I didn't know about those George Martin's words, and I do respect their authority. But he's not contradicting an opinion of mine; in any case he's enlighting an imprecise information.

Take it easy, zipp. It seems that you're working too hard to prove me wrong at any thing I'm saying. I don't care about being right, I like learning new things, especially about the Beatles. But I feel a high negativeness in the way you're talking to me. Or perhaps I'm wrong again.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 01:31:40 AM by Hombre_de_ningun_lugar »
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2017, 12:29:54 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNX4Dz1U6c" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNX4Dz1U6c</a>






 ;)
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zipp

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2017, 10:40:01 PM »

No, you're wrong. It was not my opinion, it was my interpretation according to Mark Lewisohn's book. I didn't know about those George Martin's words, and I do respect their authority. But he's not contradicting an opinion of mine; in any case he's enlighting an imprecise information.

Take it easy, zipp. It seems that you're working too hard to prove me wrong at any thing I'm saying. I don't care about being right, I like learning new things, especially about the Beatles. But I feel a high negativeness in the way you're talking to me. Or perhaps I'm wrong again.

I'm working hard to get to the truth. Nothing personal!
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2017, 11:30:49 PM »

I'm working hard to get to the truth. Nothing personal!

That's ok zipp, and I appreciate your clarifying contributions. I may have some imprecise information and I won't defend it if it is proven to be wrong. And it's good to have people like you sharing information from living experiences.

I just felt that some of your sentences were a bit offensive, such as these:

So there again your subjective "intuition" is fallacious.

This is the opposite opinion to yours when you say "I've also read that the Beatles preferred "We Can Work It Out" over "Day Tripper".

I'll take George Martin's point of view.

They seem to concentrate the discussion on my person, while sharing the actual facts would have been enough. But perhaps I haven't got you right.

Anyway, thank you for your contributions.
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zipp

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2017, 06:31:26 PM »

I do know that "Day Tripper" got more airplay than "We Can Work It Out" in UK; and the opposite occurred in US. Maybe that was not the case of "Strawberry Fields Forever" in UK, but I think the Beatles' intention was to consider this song as the first of the couple. I find some hints which make me believe that, though I admit they are not absolutely conclusive.


As I said nothing personal, but when you start a sentence by saying "I do know" then that's very assertive. And when you say "I think..." that means it's your opinion.
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Classic 60's songs: Ruby Tuesday
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2017, 08:00:40 PM »


As I said nothing personal, but when you start a sentence by saying "I do know" then that's very assertive. And when you say "I think..." that means it's your opinion.

Yes, you have a point. But at the end of the day we're talking about facts based on information that can be right or wrong. And if you can provide more reliable information than the one I share, I have no problems to accept it.

A personal opinion is different, since it's based on a subjective view due to the lack of information or because of a particular appreciation. But some opinions can change if new information is shown.

I just was surprised by the tone of some of your responses, because I never claimed to have the absolute truth. And you talked to me as if my intention was to impose my point of view.

Now we're discussing about discussing, haha!
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