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Beatles forums => Books, Magazines, Articles => Topic started by: Wayne L. on July 18, 2006, 12:11:23 PM

Title: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Wayne L. on July 18, 2006, 12:11:23 PM
John is a great book by his first wife Cynthia, which takes you inside the relationship & doesn't turn him into an angel, like some fans have been trying to do for over 20 years. He was a jerk in some ways, the way he treated her & Julian, but it probably was better for them to divorce.  Books will become extinct before too long, because of the internet, but you have to roll with the changes.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Bobber on July 18, 2006, 12:27:32 PM
http://dmbeatles.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-lennon/m-1097010175/s-15/
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: akire74 on June 24, 2008, 03:59:44 AM
I've just finished reading this book and will be honest in saying that this was a difficult read for me.  
This book is not for anyone who wishes to keep John on a pedistal.  Its not for those who believe John was a God and could do no wrong.  
In fact, even for people like myself who were aware of some of the things he did even before reading the book, this was a hard read.  Its one thing to know that he cheated on his wife and left her for another woman.  Its one thing to know that he had little contact with his son as he grew up.  But to hear from that wife and that son exactly how Johns actions affected their lives (even to this day) and what he left them (or didn't leave them), its a sad thing and it brings John down to our level...sometimes even lower.
This book isn't written in a vengeful, hurtful way.  There is no cause to cry foul that Cynthia is speaking ill of the dead when they're no longer here to defend themselves.  She's honest.  She tells you exactly what happened, she doesn't sugar coat it.  But underneath everything she says, all the brutal details, you can always hear how much she loved John.  And to be fair, she dives deep into Johns upbringing and talks about his family and the infamous Aunt Mimi in great lengths in an effort to help explain why John was the way he was.  
In the end she believe he had intended to mend the relationships he had with the people he neglected but because of his death, never got the chance to see it through.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Bill Harry on June 24, 2008, 12:47:08 PM
Here are some of my comments on Cynthia's book:
This is Cynthia Lennon
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: DarkSweetLady on June 24, 2008, 01:16:23 PM
I agree with you akire74. I think the book makes people realize the other side of John Lennon, that many who aren't fans of The Beatles may not be aware of. And even people who are fans of the Beatles tend to forget that John wasn't really an all loving peace god, he had his bad aspects, that people seem to forget now that he's gone.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: cubanheel on June 24, 2008, 01:21:34 PM
Having read this book myself, I feel I need to make a passing comment.

Whilst the errors are, as you say, shockingly frequent, I would also mention that this is a book that tells us a lot about Cynthia herself.

As a wife of a former band member myself, (not quite reaching the heights of the Beatles!!) I would have to say that I couldn't possibly accurately recall half the info about where/when they played, or significant facts about his childhood, etc. But I remember how it felt to see them play, observe song writing sessions and so on.

I don't want to make excuses for a startling lack of research (big mistake for Beatles circles); however, I think what attracted me to the book, and has stayed with me since reading it, was the glimpse it gives into what it was like to be Cynthia through those times. And that's probably what this book is for.

We'll have to turn to other tomes for the facts. And this site!
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Bill Harry on June 24, 2008, 02:14:09 PM
I can apprciate that Cynthia didn't know much about the musical background and what really happened, but she does make an astonishingly large amount of comments which are totally wrong. Since she didn't write the book herself, the publishers should have got an editor to go over the ghost writers work to check it for accuracy. The mistakes in her book will be repeated in other people's books - and I bet that you weren't even aware yourself of some of the mistakes.
Although Cynthia may not remember where they played or facts about his childhood, to say that John wrote 'All My Loving' for her is puzzling. What made her come to that conclusion. John didn't tell her because Paul wrote the song. I just wonder why she assumed that and why someone editing oe ghost writing a book about the Beatles didn't even bother to check some simple basics.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: cubanheel on June 24, 2008, 08:58:48 PM
I fully agree with you about the editors/ghost writers, etc. Perhaps they thought the book would sell anyway, checked out or not? Maybe they're too young to know any different, and assume historical accuracy from such a 'direct source'? Who knows.
And the mistakes WILL be repeated down the years, as you point out. That's probably the biggest shame, because in years to come, researchers/historians/journalists will all turn to this book for verification, and won't bother checking things out fully. We've seen it happen so many times, haven't we?!
The 'All My Loving' thing IS odd, I thought that too when reading it, but as I said before, my feeling is that this book tells a lot (between the lines) about Cynthia herself, who I have always found an intriguing lady, not served well by many Beatle books.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Jane on June 25, 2008, 06:01:13 PM
I remember reading about Cynthia`s  having a very negative attitude towards Yoko Ono - naturally! - but  her never mentioning the fact that Yoko has always been very kind to Julian and has been giving him a lot of money from Lennon revenues.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: An Apple Beatle on June 25, 2008, 07:38:04 PM
I thought she was quite balanced about Yoko when I read it. The inevitable tensions were described well. She did go on to slate Yoko for not taking care of Julian or other lennon family assets though. I can't remember when the book was written and if Yoko changed things since?
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Jane on June 25, 2008, 08:36:44 PM
Well, yes, as far as i remember, it might have happened in the last decade or at least two.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: DarkSweetLady on June 26, 2008, 01:19:55 AM
I do think that their are a lot of mistakes in the book. But I think once you get past that, she touches on an a part of John's personality that you don't get to hear about much.

And even though I love John, and appreciate him as a musician and as an artist. I feel as if people view John very single mindedly, as this guy who was all peace and love, but really he was hypocritical.
John's father left him, never had a relationship with his father. And he resented him for that, but he turned around and did the same thing to Julian. I never understood that and I never will. So, that's one thing I like that Cynthia touched on in the book.

Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Jane on June 26, 2008, 07:32:23 PM
Maybe it`s cause he didn`t love Cynthia. But he can`t have been an unjust person, remember, he was a Libra!
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: JimmyMcCullochFan on June 26, 2008, 08:30:00 PM
Why in the world would you say that he didn't love Cynthia?
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Mr. Mustard on June 28, 2008, 10:19:14 PM
I think the factual errors, though apparently many, are forgivable.  (But I haven't read the book.)  Errors of memory are understandable -- what wouldn't be so forgivable is if Cynthia completely botched the facts behind her divorce, or the Beatles breakup, or just fabricated stories about John to stain his image.

Regarding All My Loving -- maybe John in an off-the-cuff moment told her "It's all about you, Cyn."  Maybe he even meant it as a joke and she misunderstood.

Regarding Yoko -- there are probably two (or more) sides to the story of how generous/stingy she's been to Julian.  She may have given Julian a lot of money -- but if it wasn't as much as Sean is getting, then Julian and Cynthia have a right to be miffed about that.  It's a shame John didn't handle this during his life.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Jane on June 29, 2008, 06:52:19 PM
Quote from: 682
Why in the world would you say that he didn't love Cynthia?

She was his girlfriend from the college. And as far as I know he married her when she got pregnant. And I read ( I quote ): Lennon had to marry Cynthia and soon considered her to be a burden, hid her farther away, at his aunt Mimi`s...When Beatles stopped touring and bought castles John found himself alone with no soul-mate, with nothing to do. He ate the same food -cornflakes with milk and sugar- lay on the sofa, looking through papers or watching TV. It was not just Fatigue and Lethargy, it turned out that without work his life had no meaning. If the other Beatles had smth to do: they spend time with their wives, had hobbies, Lennon seemed to have nothing to keep him steady in this life, to keep him going. At a loss what to do, faced with emptiness, he even had his house decorated with Beatles photos and looked at them all the time. He hated his wife now, and he hated his life. At this point he met his reflection Yoko Ono. This is a free translation but not a rendering, guys. I do not claim it is true to the fact but why not share it? I offer it to you for your consideration. What do you say?

Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: JimmyMcCullochFan on June 29, 2008, 10:49:41 PM
^ I think you should read Cynthia's book because she addresses the whole "The only reason John married Cynthia because she was pregnant" thing.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Mr. Mustard on June 29, 2008, 11:57:30 PM
Where exactly did that quote come from?
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Bobber on June 30, 2008, 07:52:38 AM
Quote from: 1393

When Beatles stopped touring and bought castles John found himself alone with no soul-mate, with nothing to do. He ate the same food -cornflakes with milk and sugar- lay on the sofa, looking through papers or watching TV. It was not just Fatigue and Lethargy, it turned out that without work his life had no meaning. If the other Beatles had smth to do: they spend time with their wives, had hobbies, Lennon seemed to have nothing to keep him steady in this life, to keep him going.

One could say that this feeling of John's was not solely related to Cynthia. I feel that this quote pictures his state of mind very well in the mid 70's.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Bill Harry on June 30, 2008, 08:22:27 AM
I remember when Cynthia used to come to a few gigs and remember her sitting alone, out of the way, at Litherland Town Hall. The idea was that no one should know that John had a steady girl friend. Then Cynthia seemed to be absent from his life and when Virginia and I used to meet him at the Blue Angel he was going out with Ida Holly. At one time, when we left the Angel, we all shared a cab and we dropped Ida off at her home near Sefton Park.
Later on, we discovered that this must have been the time that Cynthia was pregnant, which is why she was 'out of sight', yet John then took up with Ida for a while.
She told me that she wanted to be a commere, so I fixed her up with some gigs at the Majestic ballroom and on the Mersey Beat boat to the Isle of Man.
If I knew how to put pictures on the forum I'd include one of her. She moved down to London and became a model known as Stevie Holly, but we lost touch
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Ligger on June 30, 2008, 09:50:52 AM
Bill, I'd like to report something that Rod Murray told me in 1987 or 1988. My memory is not that great, but I did make notes from my original tape of the interview.

Rod recalled that Stuart's painting, which was entered in the second John Moores Show, did not actually win a prize in the competition. John Moores bought it, himself, as a gift for his son, whom he had noticed admiring the piece.

Rod Murray was a wonderful interview subject, but very difficult to pin down. I believe I had to phone his office at  the Art College (Polytechnic) four or five times before he finally agreed to meet with me in his classroom/lab. I think he was working on the creation of a hologram project.

He was quite upbeat and had a great accent.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Bill Harry on June 30, 2008, 01:04:13 PM
John Moore's did buy Stuart's 'Summer Painting', which was actually only one half a a large painting he'd done. He didn't use all the money to buy the guitar, just placed a deposit on it. The general reports were that Stuart had won the John Moore's exhibition, but I believe Rod was right. The money he received was for the sale of the painting. If he'd won the prize, he would have received a lot more money. Stuart attended the exhibition with his girlfriend Susan Williams.
I was at the Jacaranda with John when Stu and Rod painted the murals, with a little help from Rod Jones. After Alan Williams claimed
that John had been involved with the painting, which is not what I recall, I contacted Rod. He told me that John had nothing to do with it. He and Stu had painted murals in the Norris Green Territorial Army HQ and Ye Cracke and did them at the Jac. Yet I've just seen something Rod has written saying that John was involved with the murals, which contradicats everything he told me and what I observed.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Oh Pineapple on July 22, 2008, 08:17:12 AM
Heard this book was supposed to be reallly good?
Anybody read it before?
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: JimmyMcCullochFan on July 22, 2008, 08:41:20 AM
It's one of my favorites books and I highly suggest you pick it up  :)
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Oh Pineapple on July 22, 2008, 07:55:59 PM
Oh okay. Sounds good to me. I'll have to read it sometime.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Jane on February 22, 2009, 09:57:35 PM
Quote from: 1389
Having read this book myself, I feel I need to make a passing comment.

Whilst the errors are, as you say, shockingly frequent, I would also mention that this is a book that tells us a lot about Cynthia herself.

As a wife of a former band member myself, (not quite reaching the heights of the Beatles!!) I would have to say that I couldn't possibly accurately recall half the info about where/when they played, or significant facts about his childhood, etc. But I remember how it felt to see them play, observe song writing sessions and so on.

I don't want to make excuses for a startling lack of research (big mistake for Beatles circles); however, I think what attracted me to the book, and has stayed with me since reading it, was the glimpse it gives into what it was like to be Cynthia through those times. And that's probably what this book is for.

We'll have to turn to other tomes for the facts. And this site!

I agree with this post. The book should be called Cynthia, a Wife. Or something. Having read the book I don`t have any vivid picture about John. My impression is that he was so far from Cynthia that she doesn`t know what to tell us, but her remorse for the fact that she had married John at all, as she finishes her book in this way. I think it is not the best way to finish the book. The first half of her book is devoted to imposing the idea that John loved her so much and the second to the idea that Julian was so miserable and abandoned. While I couldn`t see that even from her comments which are supposed to show that situation clearly. And on every page - John loved me, we loved each other - and then - Julian was so offended, poor boy, left alone. It starts to irritate. She is definitely pursuing her line to reach her aim. And no insight into John as a person, nothing to tell about his ways, maybe some episodes from their relationship. So he remains a vague figure, distant, in the mist. Hey, John, where are you? Have you ever been with Cynthia?  
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: moonbeam34 on May 24, 2009, 05:02:00 AM
I'm currently reading this book for the third (or fourth; I lost count!) time and the chapter that deals with the news of John's death, the way Cynthia tells it makes the reader feel (or me at least) like I was there; her description nearly moved me to tears.
I agree wth the other posters that anyone is bound to make mistakes when re-living the past. Of the several dozen Beatles books I've read so far, this one and the one by Tony Bramwell are, in my opinion, two of the best.
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Kaleidoscope_Eyes on May 25, 2009, 01:52:53 AM
*computer problems, so forgive me if I am double posting*

Quote from: 1393

I agree with this post. The book should be called Cynthia, a Wife. Or something. Having read the book I don`t have any vivid picture about John. My impression is that he was so far from Cynthia that she doesn`t know what to tell us, but her remorse for the fact that she had married John at all, as she finishes her book in this way. I think it is not the best way to finish the book. The first half of her book is devoted to imposing the idea that John loved her so much and the second to the idea that Julian was so miserable and abandoned. While I couldn`t see that even from her comments which are supposed to show that situation clearly. And on every page - John loved me, we loved each other - and then - Julian was so offended, poor boy, left alone. It starts to irritate. She is definitely pursuing her line to reach her aim. And no insight into John as a person, nothing to tell about his ways, maybe some episodes from their relationship. So he remains a vague figure, distant, in the mist. Hey, John, where are you? Have you ever been with Cynthia?  

"Cynthia, A Wife" i like that!
Wasn't one of the reasons why she wrote this book was more financial? (I seem to recall something about that....)
You say, Jane, that John remains a vague figure, distant, in the mist.... But in a way, that tells us something about John (he was a dreamer, wasn't he?)

This book is definately a must read for all John fans, but as I said once before, it is also interesting to reas her first book and compare the two. As for reading it more than once, I dont think I will enjoy it. As you said moonbeam34, she writes really well. Especially that part when she comes in to her bedroom to see John and Yoko in bed and all she can say if they wanted to come with her for lunch (7 seas and 7 meals.... something along those lines?) and John simply says "No thank you" , as a reader i was like "eh?" i did not know whether to be angry with John or pity Cyn . I think after the 4th chapter, it gets too much.

On a different note, I really like the way you write Jane!  :)
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: Bobber on September 04, 2009, 01:18:07 PM
I remember when Cynthia used to come to a few gigs and remember her sitting alone, out of the way, at Litherland Town Hall. The idea was that no one should know that John had a steady girl friend. Then Cynthia seemed to be absent from his life and when Virginia and I used to meet him at the Blue Angel he was going out with Ida Holly. At one time, when we left the Angel, we all shared a cab and we dropped Ida off at her home near Sefton Park.
Later on, we discovered that this must have been the time that Cynthia was pregnant, which is why she was 'out of sight', yet John then took up with Ida for a while.
She told me that she wanted to be a commere, so I fixed her up with some gigs at the Majestic ballroom and on the Mersey Beat boat to the Isle of Man.
If I knew how to put pictures on the forum I'd include one of her. She moved down to London and became a model known as Stevie Holly, but we lost touch


She's in here: http://www.merseybeat.co.uk/articles-details.php?cat=Bill+Harry%27s+Mersey+Beat&id=425 (http://www.merseybeat.co.uk/articles-details.php?cat=Bill+Harry%27s+Mersey+Beat&id=425)
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: sgt. peppie on September 24, 2009, 02:31:54 AM
to say that John wrote 'All My Loving' for her is puzzling. What made her come to that conclusion. John didn't tell her because Paul wrote the song.
she wrote that in "a twist of lennon"
and she wrote "john" mainly to get rid of the errors
Title: Re: John by Cynthia Lennon
Post by: The Swine on September 25, 2009, 09:46:41 AM
she wrote that in "a twist of lennon"
and she wrote "john" mainly to get rid of the errors

obviously she didnt succeed