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Solo forums => John Lennon => Topic started by: Kevin on June 23, 2005, 11:46:38 AM

Title: John on stage
Post by: Kevin on June 23, 2005, 11:46:38 AM
Was watching Anthology last night and thought that John looks really uncomfortable on stage. He doesn't seem to have any real stage presence (?), while the other 3 (especially Paul) seem to have real charisma.
And the way John stands really bugs me. It looks so uncool. Is there any reason he did that?
And I find his little spastic acts embarrassing (but I guess the world was different then). I think that it was probably a cover for his nerves though. Maybe.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Bobber on June 23, 2005, 11:55:39 AM
Maybe he felt uncomfortable on stage because he couldn't see a thing. He should have worn his glasses, but he thought that wasn't cool. The way he stands, he leans over somewhat, like he's standing at the bar. Pulls up his shoulders and stands firm.
His spastic acts had been a part of his repertoire for a long long time. There are a lot of pictures with John acting this way. I think he just didn't know how to handle with spastic people and that didn't get better when they were brought in by hundreds at the front line at almost any beatles-concert. He just couldn't cope with it.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Kevin on June 23, 2005, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: Bobber
. The way he stands, he leans over somewhat, like he's standing at the bar. Pulls up his shoulders and stands firm.
.

I hear ya. I meant more the way he stands with his legs apart, knees bent, front on to the mike. Looks like he's had an accident. :)
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Bobber on June 23, 2005, 12:13:18 PM
I know from singing lessons that in fact it is correct to stand like this: legs apart and knees bent. I doubt if John ever took lessons, maybe he heard it somewhere and thought it might work out ok. I agree that the way he does it, it looks somewhat silly and not natural.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Indica on June 23, 2005, 09:09:14 PM
the way he stands - uncool?

It is so characteristic...

and sorry to say, but very cool!
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Yamisonic on June 28, 2005, 04:26:12 PM
Hmm, I really never minded it. I think he doesn't look that lame. He looks cool on my sig at least, which is from that period -- All Beatles do anyway!
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: on June 28, 2005, 11:10:25 PM
Quote from: IndicaWalrus
the way he stands - uncool?

It is so characteristic...

and sorry to say, but very cool!

It was very cool. It was John's own stance. Almost a signature, and if he was comfortable in that stance, who gives a f***?
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: tkitna on June 28, 2005, 11:51:55 PM
I'm stepping in the mindfield, but I think John always looked 'stiff' because he was concentrating so he wouldnt screw up. I know i'm going to get called on this and I dont have the answer in front of me, but i've heard several times that even John admitted that he wasnt the best timekeeper. (guess i'll start searching for the quote now)
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: pc31 on June 29, 2005, 12:09:52 AM
he was uncomfortable but he did it......there are worse ways to earn a buck....
he did kind of stand around his guitar tho...
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: pc31 on June 29, 2005, 12:10:37 AM
oh and hey tkers
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: tkitna on June 29, 2005, 12:24:24 AM
Hey ya bastard!
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Sondra on June 29, 2005, 12:31:49 AM
Why are people assuming he was uncomfortable or stiff? Maybe that's just the way he stood. I've seen other guitarists stand like that actually. Robbie Robertson for one. Anyway, he looked just fine to me. Does he stand like that later on in his career? I never noticed.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: pc31 on June 29, 2005, 01:20:29 AM
yeah at live peas in toronto he did........
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: number14 on July 01, 2005, 12:29:26 AM
i think johns odd behaivior on stage is awesome

Paul is the best to watch
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: In Blue Hawaii on July 01, 2005, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: number14
Paul is the best to watch

..because he's a natural..always had cool moves with his bass.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Kevin on July 01, 2005, 10:51:24 AM
Quote from: MagicAlex

..because he's a natural..always had cool moves with his bass.

I agree - Paul is the consumate showman. It looks like he was born to do it.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: on July 01, 2005, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: MagicAlex

..because he's a natural..always had cool moves with his bass.

And like your avatar--John kind of bobbed to the rythm. He kept time perfectly.

Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Bobber on September 11, 2006, 10:31:46 AM
From an interview with Tony Sheridan in 2002. Of course, the total interview is to be found here; The Tony Sheridan World Wide Forum (http://com3.runboard.com/bthetonysheridanforum)

SEVERAL LIVERPUDLIAN ARTISTS, INCLUDING JOHN LENNON, COPIED YOUR HIGH-CHESTED GUITAR PLAYING AND YOUR WIDE-LEGGED STANCE ON STAGE. WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES OF PLAYING THE GUITAR LIKE THIS?
This position relieved pain (caused by the pressure of the guitar body on my bony lower ribs). It also looked like the early Elvis. The "wide-legged stance" was a preventive measure in two senses:

1) After fifteen beers one was less likely to fall off the stage.
2) There was less chafing at the crotch, caused by wet jeans (we sweated an awful lot) worn without underpants (musicians just threw the old unwashed ones away and couldn't afford new underwear on the pauper's salary we received in the clubs). Also, there were no facilities for washing anything, (including ourselves) anywhere in St. Paul's.

From this we deduced that the Germans only bought throw-away underwear. It also looked like the early Elvis. John assumed a similar stance for apparently similar reasons, plus the fact that Tony Sheridan knew more chords (mostly weird) than he did. Furthermore, he was anxious to stay on good terms with "the stupid twat".
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Wordno on September 11, 2006, 09:09:24 PM
I think George had more of a stiff stance than John. George didn't dance around much either, he stood their most of the time just playing. Hey, its tough to dance around and play the right notes.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: SallyG on September 11, 2006, 10:11:35 PM
Yeah. George had a stiff stance, but he also had this leg-shuffle thing going on from time to time.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Mairi on September 11, 2006, 10:18:02 PM
I was watching the Ed Sullivan show with my friend, and he said that looked and moved like Eddie Munster! LOL!
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: raxo on September 14, 2006, 09:33:58 PM
Quote from: 63
I know from singing lessons that in fact it is correct to stand like this: legs apart and knees bent. I doubt if John ever took lessons, maybe he heard it somewhere and thought it might work out ok. I agree that the way he does it, it looks somewhat silly and not natural.
Liam Gallagher seems to exagerate the pose ...
Quote from: 216
Why are people assuming he was uncomfortable or stiff? Maybe that's just the way he stood. I've seen other guitarists stand like that actually. Robbie Robertson for one. Anyway, he looked just fine to me. Does he stand like that later on in his career? I never noticed.
At least during the One On One Concert he did ...
Quote from: 403
I think George had more of a stiff stance than John. George didn't dance around much either, he stood their most of the time just playing. Hey, its tough to dance around and play the right notes.
George had to play correctly, specially his solos, so he was more concetrated than the other two frontmen ... but during their first Ed Sullivan Show (and let's remember that there were cameras and the exactly day it was) he looked quite comfortable and smiling -I'm thinking on Till There Was You performance, right now ... do you remember that moment during the performance of the song when that teenager's tongue :P ... well  ::) -...

...during some songs in Japan concerts (July 1966) he moved on stage more than the others ... spice-alley more than Ringo!!!  ;D
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 14, 2006, 10:12:38 PM
Quote from: juniorsfarm
It was very cool. It was John's own stance. Almost a signature, and if he was comfortable in that stance, who gives a f***?


Agreed!  His stance is etched in our minds....in our minds...in our minds..

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2evrzw7.jpg)

Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: raxo on September 14, 2006, 10:49:10 PM
Quote from: 59
Agreed!  His stance is etched in our minds....in our minds...in our minds..

Agree:
(http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7084/beatlesedsullivanvp7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4723/john20yoko20clapton20sept6920photo20by20ellen20sanderym4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: SallyG on September 15, 2006, 12:54:04 AM
I think John was very charismatic on stage, stance and all. Look at Bill Wyman, he was like a statue, you can't even tell if he was breathing.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: raxo on September 15, 2006, 12:57:15 AM
Yep, you can almost be expecting him to smile, give a wink or anything ... you can be watching him expecting that special weird moment knowing it will come at any time ... charisma!  8)
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Wayne L. on September 15, 2006, 02:29:05 PM
John wasn't a great performer, but he still had stage presence, even though he wasn't Paul or Ringo.  I thought he seemed in control of the stage at Shea Stadium  & in Toronto, without a doubt.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: on September 15, 2006, 04:54:39 PM
of course he was in control of toronto it was his band..are you also saying ringo was a great performer and john wasn't?
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: SallyG on September 15, 2006, 05:12:34 PM
John was a great performer. He had presence. He didn't need to jump around or twirl a mike like Daltry. Can you imagine being in the same room watching him sing his songs? No, you can't. Even when he was stomping his feet or whatever, he was cool. You have to try to put yourself at the time at the moment. Wayne, if you were sitting at Carnegie Hall or in Washington, you'd have been blown away by all of them.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Wayne L. on September 15, 2006, 08:22:19 PM
LOL.  You must be really uptight & have way too much time on your hands lennonlegend?  You mean to say John was in control in Toronto & it was his band. No.  I thought it was Klaus Voorman's band.  
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: on September 15, 2006, 08:56:02 PM
what
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: The End on September 16, 2006, 08:42:44 PM
Didn't Gerry Marsden (of Gerry & the Pacemakers) also adopt the same stance?
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Bobber on September 17, 2006, 08:54:45 AM
Gerry holds his guitar quite high on the chest and leans a bit forward towards the mircophone. Live here: http://bobbr.podomatic.com/entry/2006-05-09T11_40_48-07_00
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: The End on September 27, 2006, 12:01:05 PM
Quote from: 63
Gerry holds his guitar quite high on the chest and leans a bit forward towards the mircophone.

That's quite a widely copied stance for Mersey bands - I seem to recall some members of The Las and the Coral also adopted a Marsden-esque stance too.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Bobber on May 26, 2010, 10:00:33 AM
Didn't Gerry Marsden (of Gerry & the Pacemakers) also adopt the same stance?


The Searchers do it.

The searchers-Don't throw your love away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlJsVG1QbFk#lq-lq2-hq)
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: peterbell1 on May 18, 2011, 09:29:43 AM
Gerry Marsden said he used to have his guitar up high because it lessened the strain on his wrists when they were playing for long periods in one evening. You can keep the wrist a lot straighter like that, rather than having to bend it right round the neck.
He also said it meant he could look at the neck of the guitar without having to look down, away from the audience.

In the early days of The Who, Pete Townshend used to wear his guitar very high up - I think it became a fashionable thing to do around 1963/64 so lots of bands copied it, but as Gerry Marsden explained it was born out of necessity when playing long hours each night.

I think John's stance on stage is instantly recognisable - one of his trademarks - and he stuck with it when playing live right into the 70s, so it was obviously quite natural for him. It looks very cool to me - not awkward at all.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Ollier on October 17, 2011, 11:58:21 PM
George did the Liverpool leg.

Well done Bobber and Mr. Bell for actually bumping a worth while thread in this place...
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Toejam on October 18, 2011, 05:14:28 PM
Was watching Anthology last night and thought that John looks really uncomfortable on stage. He doesn't seem to have any real stage presence (?), while the other 3 (especially Paul) seem to have real charisma.
And the way John stands really bugs me. It looks so uncool. Is there any reason he did that?
And I find his little spastic acts embarrassing (but I guess the world was different then). I think that it was probably a cover for his nerves though. Maybe.
Yeah. I never thought he looked cool in that stance. I think the fact he was wearing a suit might have spoilt his enjoyment of playing live when Brian took them on. Maybe that's what he didn't like and the glasses thing too.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Toejam on October 18, 2011, 05:21:53 PM
I i've heard several times that even John admitted that he wasnt the best timekeeper. (guess i'll start searching for the quote now)
I read it in the book Revolution in the head by Ian McDonald. He only says it once but in a way that makes it sound like it's a well known fact. I can't see it myself. Johns creativity was def. the prime factor in his success more than musical technical ability, you even hear talk of him not being able to tune his guitar, but to suggest that he wasn't very competent at keeping time is just pushing crediblity for me.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Mr Mustard on October 19, 2011, 12:25:25 AM
I always thought John looked the coolest on stage. That trademark wide legged, hunch shouldered stance looked natural to him and seemed to mark him out as the alpha male of the group, a proper front man. At a time when groups had to have a leader, he was unquestionably it. It helped that he was the most naturally gifted vocalist of the four (in my opinion).

As for timing, he always struck me as having more natural rhythm than Paul or George. He was underrated as a guitarist but his biggest failing on stage was fluffing his words - he never was very good at remembering lyrics, even his own! Paul and Ringo may have been the more showbizzy Beatles, but this only served to bolster Lennon and Harrison's more intriguing (dare I say charismatic?) presence both on and off stage.

Fan that I am, I must confess to always finding Paul far and away the most irritating and false on stage in those early Beatle days. Look at the way his head is shaking nervously whilst he sings on the 1963 Royal Variety Show . And I hated the way he kind of flicked his elbow in whenever he spun away from the microphone. Just little things but they either endear or annoy you I suppose. Always came over slightly too "hammy" for me. Funny when you stop to consider Paul was undoubtedly the one most at home on stage.

What I liked about the on stage Beatles was their ability to sing AND play (John, don't forget, could sing and accompany himself on both guitar and harmonica). Sorry, but I was never taken in by the swirling, twirling on stage antics of Jagger and Daltrey - to me they were simply prancing around to gloss over the fact they weren't talented enough to sing and competently play an instrument at the same time. Not so much Daltrey, but Jagger certainly always just looked silly and ridiculous to me - faintly embarrassing to be honest.

Will you tell him or shall I?  ;D

Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Toejam on October 19, 2011, 02:34:13 PM
I read it in the book Revolution in the head by Ian McDonald. He only says it once but in a way that makes it sound like it's a well known fact. I can't see it myself. Johns creativity was def. the prime factor in his success more than musical technical ability, you even hear talk of him not being able to tune his guitar, but to suggest that he wasn't very competent at keeping time is just pushing crediblity for me.

As a little addendum to what I've said there. There is the Anth.2 Disc 2 verison of I am the walrus where John comes in too early.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Paul Petraitis on November 23, 2011, 02:55:17 PM
 In "Can't Buy Me Love" the author describes John's distinctive stance "as if it were Elvis idling in neutral" which is funny yes but VERY perceptive. I'm sorry I've forgotten the author's name, I loaned my copy out. He's a drummer and...wow I have to get that book back don't I?
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: stevie on December 08, 2011, 12:26:14 AM
Was watching footage of the Washington Coliseum gig and George just doesn't stay still! He's moving around, tapping his feet, shaking it.

There's a great energy to that concert
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: TomMo on June 07, 2012, 05:59:07 AM
In "Can't Buy Me Love" the author describes John's distinctive stance "as if it were Elvis idling in neutral" which is funny yes but VERY perceptive. I'm sorry I've forgotten the author's name, I loaned my copy out. He's a drummer and...wow I have to get that book back don't I?

I think you're quote from "Can't Buy Me Love" is pretty damned close to the truth.

I'm male and I suspect most people who post here are also male (tho I may be wrong). I've asked numerous women from my generation (ancient) about John's stance. The consensus is (to put it politely) that John always looked like he boinking a woman in the standing position. So was that what was meant by "Elvis idling in neutral"? Methinks John was doing it for the womenfolk in the audience, not unlike a female singer doing some hip gyrations on stage. Ever seen Tina Turner handle a mic during a sexy ballad? Lucky mic.

As for guitarists holding their instruments high in that era, that was pretty standard. With the 70's, and what was sometimes called "cock-rock", guitarists began holding their guitars at crotch-level, making the necks of their guitars an extension of their penises. In my opinion, the ultimate result has probably been an increase in carpal tunnel syndrome cases.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: peterbell1 on June 07, 2012, 10:43:18 AM
As a little addendum to what I've said there. There is the Anth.2 Disc 2 verison of I am the walrus where John comes in too early.

Maybe the "time-keeping" reference is more to do with the fact that John didn't always tie himself to a 4/4 beat in his songs - songs like All You Need is Love mix 4/4 bars with 3/4 bars in a way that seemed natural for John to do, but as a musician myself it would never cross my mind to do it in one of my songs. John didn't seem to bother about sticking to the well-known formula of 12-bar blues etc.

When you listen to someone like John Lee Hooker he is the same - he might start one phrase on beat 1 of a bar then next time round he will start it a beat too early or whatever. You can hear the musicians playing with him trying to keep up because they're expecting every bar to be 4 beats but every now and then there'll be a 3-beat bar or a 5-beat bar.

John Lennon seems to have that same ability to "lose" the regular 4/4 timing and add in extra beats (Good Morning, Good Morning) or lose beats (AYNIL) when it suited him.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: TomMo on June 13, 2012, 03:36:32 PM
Maybe the "time-keeping" reference is more to do with the fact that John didn't always tie himself to a 4/4 beat in his songs - songs like All You Need is Love mix 4/4 bars with 3/4 bars in a way that seemed natural for John to do, but as a musician myself it would never cross my mind to do it in one of my songs. John didn't seem to bother about sticking to the well-known formula of 12-bar blues etc.

I have to agree with you. I don't think John was well-versed in time signatures beyond 4/4, 3/4 and 6/8. For him to consciously decide to drop in a measure or two of unusual time signature probably is a myth. When he did it, it was probably pure instinct as a musician.

I wonder: Since in 1963 interviews, both John and Paul expressed admiration of and influence by songwriting teams such as "Goffin and King" and "Bacharach and David". Bacharach, in particular, used brief time changes in some of his songs. Might that explain why John felt free to add a few to some of his tunes? Just asking.
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Hello Goodbye on March 01, 2013, 04:16:22 AM
John forgot there was another verse before the guitar solo...


The Beatles - You Can't Do That (Empire Pool - Wembley) [HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4ftYba3NNI#ws)


I love the expression on his face.   :)
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Snoopy66 on March 01, 2013, 07:17:51 AM
John forgot there was another verse before the guitar solo...


The Beatles - You Can't Do That (Empire Pool - Wembley) [HD] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4ftYba3NNI#ws[/url])


I love the expression on his face.   :)

Yeah, this video rocks (and the song of course) 8)

Well, it wasn't the first time that John forgot some verse or lines, was it ? Sometimes he seems "fighting" with the microphone  ;D

Snoopy
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Hello Goodbye on March 01, 2013, 05:16:31 PM
Well, it wasn't the first time that John forgot some verse or lines, was it ? Sometimes he seems "fighting" with the microphone  ;D


Here John is trying hard to phrase the line "And so it's true, pride comes before a fall" correctly.  It was a bit awkward as you can see by the face he makes...


Merci beaucoup.  Salut!  Et maintenant, une chanson qui s'appelle "I'm A Loser."


The Beatles - Live in Paris 1965 - I'm A Loser/I Wanna Be Your Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en_MxV5pO5M#)
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Hello Goodbye on March 01, 2013, 05:18:07 PM
Paul can forget the words too...


Paul McCartney: We Can Work It Out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1L0QbYhATw#ws)



 :)
Title: Re: John on stage
Post by: Snoopy66 on March 01, 2013, 08:27:35 PM
Paul can forget the words too...


Paul McCartney: We Can Work It Out ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1L0QbYhATw#ws[/url])



 :)

That's interesting. Paul is dealing differently than John in such situation, a bit cooler and self-assured I think. Thank's for sharing, Barry  :)

Snoopy