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Solo forums => John Lennon => Microscopes => Topic started by: Bobber on January 28, 2013, 09:57:05 AM

Title: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on January 28, 2013, 09:57:05 AM
Coming up this week. Personally I have mixed emotions about this album and I hope a lot of you have them too.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Klang on January 28, 2013, 10:29:08 AM

As with 'Live Peace in Toronto' I completely bought into and loved this. Now? Um...well...it always gets down to 'poor John.' Up until 'Double Fantasy' I can't bear to listen to much - with a few bright exceptions - of any of his solo work. One big lost weekend for me.

 :-\

Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dcazz on January 28, 2013, 04:14:47 PM
I'm going to listen to it now. I haven't heard it in years.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Ovi on January 28, 2013, 04:37:43 PM
Probably his best as a solo artist, but kind of overrated when talking about rock music in general. Looking forward to the review.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on January 28, 2013, 04:51:37 PM
In my opinion, the biggest artistic triumph of any solo Beatles career, though it may be true that it's usually an overrated album. I'll do my review after Bobber's.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dcazz on January 28, 2013, 05:50:00 PM
I just finished my listen to Plastic Ono Band and I was pleased to find I still enjoyed it. Also Know as "The Therapy Album" I find that 43 years later it's a very personal album John wrote for mostly himself, occasionally lifting his head up to include the other Beatles, Yoko, his fans and maybe the rest of the world as he see's it. I hadn't listened to this for years so when I revisited it today I felt a sense of how crushing it was for John's world to have come crashing down around him with the Beatle breakup. I think he was holding everything in for almost his whole life and his Beatle Rock Star persona might be considered his mask to the world covering up a multitude of problems. I think this album is his AA way of saying, Hello my name is John and I'm an...
As for the music I really liked the simplicity of the bands sound. The only quip I have is with Claus Voorman's occasional slip up on bass. No biggie though for a loyal freind doing his best. On Mother he writes about the seemingly underlying problem following him through his whole life to date complete with his feelings about it in order to his mother, father and then gives a generalized warning to the Children ( IMHO, where John's persona has been stuck). At the end though he still screams for his mother and father. Something he can't ever change.
On Hold on john I really liked his arrangement with his guitar and the vibrato! In the song I can imagine him curled up to just hold on. very self expanitory however the last verse is probably a reference to being free from the Beatles and not having to deal with the production stuff and opinions of others, etc... you kbnow the story.
I think I Found Out is just a scathing song about the people who always wanted something from John. Probably the political radicals that he seems to be rejecting as well (I'm a big boy and I can do it myself). A general rejection of all the next big thing mentality he basically created himself. Great driving beat with his grinding guitar work. Ilike it!
WCH even though I related when I was a teenager it might mean more to the British kids than it did to ua here in the USA. When I was listening to it I was thinking about Pink Floyd and The Wall. Good song but it doesn't ring with me in my 50's after a life of hard work. Thats how it's supposed to be.
Isolation. A nice song with tough lyrics but it is just what it is. I detect a little plead for sympathy as well. He's speaking to some one specific in the refrain. Nixon, Paul, I don't know.
Remember like Isolation is just what it says. I like to remember stuff from my youth etc.
Love is a beautiful little song that reminds me of Julia. i found myself thinking that would have been nice on the White Album instead but I like Julia too. Maybe Johns idea of love was changing as well.Also soeaks in oposits as a number of beatle songs did.
Well,well, well is a rocker that John uses his grinding guitar to good use. I feel he still has a bit of a messianic sense of himself as in the 2nd verse he wonders how we can get thing s done. Nice he cares but a bit self centered.
Look At Me is a good introspective song that looks to the future after dragging himself through and out of the past. I really like the melody and the upbeat feeling I get from him. "How do you spell relief"(?) comes to mind. This is one plausible song that could have ended the album with leaving us wondering with whats next.  One of my album favorites!
God is a tearing down of all the false gods (with One notable exception IMO) that John had accumulated over his life. He's coming clean. Now he's John! It's a place to begin. carry On!
My Mummies Dead. Still huts but it always would for anyone.
All told I enjoyed this listen very much. As an adult I can feel empathy for him as he picked up and started to move on which we all need to do in one form or another at different times in our lives. This is a noted "biggie" for the arguably the biggest rock star of all. I would say it took guts to make this album and it should be respected as a true work of musical artistry. Though John was far from being free of himself I think this album is honest and open. I would bet a beer that nobody could ever do one like that again!
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on January 31, 2013, 02:50:06 AM
I'll wait for Cor's review before I read or write anything. This one will probably see as much negativity as it does praise from me, but its been awhile.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on January 31, 2013, 01:57:45 PM
I really don't have the energy for this at the moment.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 01, 2013, 12:52:07 AM
I really don't have the energy for this at the moment.

I hear you Ollie. I have 6 to 8 secret santa CD's I havent reviewed yet and now this is up coming. I may never find the time.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 01, 2013, 08:03:49 PM
Sorry guys for the delay. Some kind of flu is taking some time here.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 01, 2013, 09:33:49 PM
Sorry guys for the delay. Some kind of flu is taking some time here.

I know what you mean.  I had it in December.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on February 02, 2013, 12:34:15 PM
It lasts about a month in total.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dcazz on February 02, 2013, 01:36:56 PM
It lasts about a month in total.
I had it too. You think you feel better but then you go down again. Up- down, about a month!
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 02, 2013, 08:08:23 PM
I had it too. You think you feel better but then you go down again. Up- down, about a month!

Thanks for cheering me up. ;)
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dcazz on February 02, 2013, 08:20:01 PM
Thanks for cheering me up. ;)
This too shall pass!
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 13, 2013, 10:14:49 AM
sh*t. I was busy typing my review when I accidently clicked it away. Grmblr! Will try again later.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dcazz on February 13, 2013, 02:09:54 PM
sh*t. I was busy typing my review when I accidently clicked it away. Grmblr! Will try again later.
We're waiting with baited breath! : )
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 13, 2013, 03:38:19 PM
John Lennon - Plastic Ono Band

(http://3voor12.vpro.nl/.imaging/stk/3voor12/zoom/media/3voor12/nieuws/2012/maart/plastic_ono_band/original/plastic_ono_band.jpg)

It’s nice to hear that after four consective albums full of disaster, John can still sing actually. I’m convinced that John was inspired by his fellow-Beatle Paul McCartney, who had produced his debut album McCartney earlier that year. The feeling of ‘home made recording’ is also present on this album. So, in my opinion, they were not really that far apart.

Mother
The album start a bit dark and sinister with the bells chiming. At 0.23, John suddenly starts singing and he does so with compassion and in tune. Bravo! Ringo’s drumming and Klaus’s bass are minimal and so is John’s piano, but it all fits together nicely. Ringo does a great job at keeping track when John start the ‘Mamma don’t go’-section. Thank you Dr. Janov for supplying John with the scream therapy, but whether it was such a great idea to put this on a record... Alright, John screaming out for his mum and dad suits the song, but why it goes on for a minute and a half is a mystery to me. The point is clear. Still, a good song to start the album with.

Hold On
I have always loved this song. Once again, Ringo’s drumming and especially Klaus’ bass are superb. Love the ‘cookie’, but I guess not everybody will agree. John’s double tracked voice is out of sync here and there and it annoys me, but it adds to the feeling of a home recording. A pity the song is a bit short. I think that’s the first time I have said that of a solo recording by John Lennon.

I Found Out
A firm rocker and Ringo and Klaus go along with the idea. A song full of frustration, even towards his mum and dad. A bit strange after ‘Mother’ if you ask me: I heard something about my ma and my pa, They didn't want me so they made me a star. And a little dig towards his former mate as well. Nothing special song to me.

Working Class Hero
A skip. Bruce Beatlefan wrote a review about this song on the DM’s Beatles site: ‘It is well chronicled that the schoolboy John Lennon tanked, rebelled, and basically did what the hell he wanted to. Now that's okay, lots of folks do that, hell, I did it myself. But to come out years later and make a (minor) hit song about how poor little Johnny was so damaged by that experience is despicable. This whole era of Lennon's life (the Bagism B.S., the uninformed political posturing, even claiming to be a Messiah-like sufferer) is narcissism in the highest degree, the absolute nadir of John's life--from which he thankfully emerged in time.’ Nothing to add.

Isolation
I love this guy Bruce Beatlefan: ‘I feel two ways about this song. John's performance is superb; he effectively drives home his sense of isolation. It's easy to understand why John would feel an overwhelming isolation, given the pain of his early years and the way that his incomprehensible popularity as a Beatle would alienate him from all but his closest friends. But instead of sharing this feeling honestly (everyone raves about this album's HONESTY), he delivers a pouty spoiled-little-boy lyric like "Just a boy and a little girl, trying to change the whole wide world" followed by "everybody trying to put us down", and then the ultimate juvenility, "I don't expect you to understand". Cripes, I'm supposed to sympathise with that?’
Still, I think this is a good song musically and John’s voice is sharp as always.

Remember
Side B starts with Remember. I have never understood the rhythm in the first part of the song. It sounds as if Ringo, Klaus and John are all out of rhythm, but when John starts singing, it suddenly seems to be alright. The ‘Don’t You Worry’-part even sounds a bit like The Beatles if you ask me. Klaus’ bass and John’s piano sounds threatening together, haunting. Well done.

Love
Sung in vulnerable way, this is just a wonderful lovesong to my ears. Maybe a bit too simplistic, but on the other hand, one does not always need a lot of words to express a feeling.

Well Well Well
Ringo is drumming this well, John is playing and singing this well and well, Klaus is just doing his bass thing here. Still, this is and will remain a skip after the first listen to me. The song just goes on and on and on and leads towards nothing. We have had the screaming bit in Mother, so it just annoys the hell out of me. Rubbish.

Look At Me
OK? Yes thank you. John’s redoing Julia here. I believe this song was around in the late Beatles days (India 1968?) as well. Some trouble with the second voice at 1.02, as if he’s doubtful what to sing. Once again at 1.15, plus problems with the guitar pattern a few seconds later. It all seems to go wrong at 1.27, which takes the flow out of song for a short while. Pity. Introspective once again, but this time in a vulnerable and beautiful way. I really like this song.

God
We switch to Bruce Beatlefan for the last time: ‘Unmitigated crap from beginning to end. That dramatic stop after he sings "I don't believe in Beatles"...I guess John must have thought listeners would faint, or something.’ ha2ha   I think it’s not that bad, although it has never been a favourite. John’s making some points here, telling us what he believes in and not. Yeah, well alright. The simplicity in the use of instruments from Mother returns here, fullfilling the circle of the album in the same style. I like that. Besides that, this song does not do very much to me.

My Mummy’s Dead
Utter rubbish. Sounding like a demo recording and it probably is. Adds nothing to the album in my humble opinion. Some kind of coda, like Her Majesty, but done in a sad way. A pity to end an album like this in such a way.

All in all: it was a very good idea to give Yoko her own version of this album, complete with almost the identical front cover. The fact that Yoko’s album has been long forgotten, should have shown John that he was better off without Yoko, musically.
I have experienced this album as an intense listen. Even though I’m not a native English speaker and don’t pick up every bit of lyric immediately. But credits to John for trying to show us his inner self on this album and giving us some decent music at last.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Ovi on February 13, 2013, 04:23:20 PM
Great review, Cor, even though I disagree with most of it. I'll post mine soon.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 13, 2013, 07:44:47 PM
Great review, Cor, even though I disagree with most of it. I'll post mine soon.

Sure. This review was made to disagree with. I want to see some fireworks in this thread.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 14, 2013, 02:09:59 AM
I promise you'll get some very soon.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on February 14, 2013, 03:06:06 AM
Nice review Bobber. I think one good thing about this album is that it leads to mixed opinions. I'll add my review as well when I get the time.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 18, 2013, 09:03:49 AM
Even The Wedding Album has got more views till now.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dcazz on February 18, 2013, 01:56:37 PM
Even The Wedding Album has got more views till now.
You mean it's been knocked off the bottom!?
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on February 18, 2013, 05:02:50 PM
It's very difficult to listen to.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 18, 2013, 09:19:49 PM
It's very difficult to listen to.

Explain.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 19, 2013, 01:42:57 AM
I really wanted to review this this weekend, but just couldnt. My sister was in from North Carolina and my friends were in from Virginia. I'm working by myself tonight and tomorrow so it'll be impossible here at work. Friday for sure. That is my deadline.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Kevin on February 19, 2013, 06:16:07 PM
Good God, a Lennon album I like.
This is not an easy listen, but then it's not supposed to be. And if the songs give us a look into a paranoid, self pitying self-obssessed mind then all the better, because that seems to have been his exact state of mind at the time. And if this album is about anything it's about honesty, however distorted or misplaced that may seem in retrospect.
Like Pepper, it's one of those albums where the individula songs don't really matter. If someone were to ask what one single Beatles solo album should they own, I'd say this one.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Ovi on February 19, 2013, 06:31:30 PM
Good God, a Lennon album I like.
This is not an easy listen, but then it's not supposed to be. And if the songs give us a look into a paranoid, self pitying self-obssessed mind then all the better, because that seems to have been his exact state of mind at the time. And if this album is about anything it's about honesty, however distorted or misplaced that may seem in retrospect.
Like Pepper, it's one of those albums where the individula songs don't really matter.

That's the exact problem I have with the album. I fully agree with your description of it, but when it comes to the songs themselves, I only really like about 3/4 of them. And when listening to an album, be it a "2-hits-and-10-fillers" one or a full-blown concept that doesn't work unless taken as a whole one, the songs' quality as individuals does matter to me.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on February 19, 2013, 08:10:09 PM
Explain.

Pretty much what that new member Kevin says. Except the cranky middle aged retrospect angle.

I have the over loud odd Yoko mix from 2000 but I have money so I shall purchase the proper mix.

I only tend to listen to it when I'm in one of life's funks. But I shall make an exception for you, my beautiful clog wearing, tulip smelling, edam eating, windmill living friend.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 19, 2013, 09:10:01 PM
Don't do it for me.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 20, 2013, 12:46:01 AM
If someone were to ask what one single Beatles solo album should they own, I'd say this one.

Why?
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on February 21, 2013, 10:10:11 AM
Because he's a miserable git and it suits his mood.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Kevin on February 21, 2013, 06:16:53 PM
Because he's a miserable git and it suits his mood.

Cheers for that. But I'm quite jolly at the moment thank you.
But really...First off, it’s not my favourite solo album, give me All Things Must pass, Band On The Run or Imagine for a good listen any day.

But I think because it’s so uncomfortable, raw and emotional  that it’s so great. Maybe like Picasso’s Guernica (excuse me while I don my extra big tossers hat here) the fact that it challenges you make it so good. Even if you don’t agree with the sentiments it expresses it’s hard to deny they’re very powerfully stated. For all Lennon’s faults (and they are legion) at least he was prepared to step out of the box. I just think thatr as an album it’s more than just a collection of songs (nothing wrong with that of course either.)
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 21, 2013, 11:15:10 PM
My 2nd favourite solo Beatle album.
Ive thought about this and yes it is self obsessed and full of self pity but the whole thing about Primal Therapy is to be completely absorbed in ones self, almost to the point of obsession. Thats the whole point of the album, to kind of put Primal Therapy and it methods together with ones own experiences whilst undertaking the course, in a way its no different that George introducing Indian themes and singing mantra's like on My Sweet Lord.........so the album is much much more than a collection of songs, it is a concept album of sorts to be taken as a whole work and a commentary on 'doing' the course...kind of like a course diary.

One of the things I like about Johns music is that he always wrote and sang about what was in his head at that time (like a diary), a kind of social commentary on what he thought about certain issues, sometimes his views may have been misguided but he was always honest about the subject he wrote about, every song on this and Imagine is a dialogue of his thoughts on whatever was going on, it doesnt really matter if you agree with him, but he's being honest in his songs and he's saying something, using his songs as a vehicle to express opinion.

My problem with Pauls albums is always the opposite of this, I have absolutely no idea what Paul is singing about most of the time, I dont know what a Monkberry Moon delight is, or a C Moon, or why he says he is a Bluebird, or why his band is on the run, it all sounds very 'twee' to me, a pity, as Paul WAS capable of writing great lyrics when he could be bothered.......Ive always been a lyrics fan and I love it when artists have something to say, even if I dont agree (my favourite Pink Floyd album is The Final Cut, I must be mad)  ;D
Yes I like the stripped down and stark sound on this album, I wish Paul had played bass though, Im a fan of Macca bass playing.

I actually dont think there are that many artists that could have written this album, its not easy to kind of bare your soul to millions of people in an attempt to tell the world what is wrong with you, but I dont think anyone can imagine what its like to have parents who dont want you, after all when you a little child, your parents are THE most important people in your life, they are your rock which your whole being is pivoted on, you want them to love you and care for you, I simply cant imagine what it must be like if the opposite applies.
Good on John for releasing this pain in music and exorcising those inner feelings of inadequacy, and for wanting 'his' truth to be told.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 22, 2013, 12:21:41 PM
What's this 'honesty' thing? Is Working Class Hero an honest song? Or Isolation? And what 'wanting his truth to be told'? Everybody and every artist has his or her own truth that will always be in a song that is produced in one way or another. I don't see why John Lennon should be more special in that. It might be that he appeals more to a certain feeling that every individual listener has or has not.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Kevin on February 22, 2013, 12:31:48 PM
What's this 'honesty' thing? Is Working Class Hero an honest song? Or Isolation?
I guess I mean that Lennon felt himself a working class hero. (whether he was or not doesn't really matter.)
He was determined to bare his soul, even if in retrospect those feelings appear now to be ...um...misguided.
I don't think an album needs to be honest to be good. But certainly he was ready to lay it on the line, more so than most. And that makes POB what it is. Self obsessed and paranoid to some admittedly.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 22, 2013, 03:40:07 PM
Plastic Ono Band

This is the album that probably turned me off of John Lennon more so then anything else. I remember listening to it when I was younger feeling that he was having a pity party and he wanted the world to know. That was just something I couldn’t get behind. It was always the end of the world for poor John it seemed.

1. Mother – The opening bells are ok, but take too long. John then proceeds to drag us down into his depression of losing his mother at a very young age and his father leaving him. Enough already John. You grew up in a decent home and how many memories do you actually have? The angst here almost comes off as fake because its so much. Not enjoyable to me.

2. Hold On – The echo effects on the guitar are ok, but the drums are muddy as most of the album is. Again, we have John pleading for everyone to hold on as the situation is too dire to handle. Thankfully its short. Pass.

3. I Found Out – I have always liked this one. Its still a negative song and that grates on me some, but I’m sucker for the driving beat. The distorted production is almost a killer, but it kind of fits on this one.

4. Working Class Hero - I’ve always liked this one too. I always felt that John was trying to portray the experience of being an actual working class hero and that always made me laugh as his experience in that genre was short to say the least. Now, I just pass it off as John describing the scene which works. Love the acoustic although its nothing more then a constant loop. John’s story telling here is convincing enough. I like it.

5. Isolation – Another happy song (insert sarcasm tag here). Piano sounds good and the bass is awesome. Johns double tracking lead vocals in the middle is pretty cool, but he’s trying too hard here. It doesn’t come off at all for me. I don’t care for this song.

6. Remember – Why do the drums sound so crappy on this album? I always thought it was cool how this song sounds like it’s a straight four and then John’s singing makes it something else. I wonder what the time signature really is? Maybe it is a 4/4 and that’s how I would play it. Bass is cool again from Klaus. I don’t know. The songs pretty monotonous. Pass.

7. Love – Piano intro takes forever to get going. The lyrics are kind of silly on this one. Boring song in my opinion. Not a lot to say about this one as its not much of a song.

8. Well Well Well – I like this one. The production is horrible, but it almost sounds like its live and that’s how I always listened to it. Raunchy guitar from John Horrible wrong note from John at the 1:30 mark, but that’s ok. I usually cant stand songs like this because its repeating itself most of the song and really doesn’t go anywhere, but I dig the music for some reason. The screaming is annoying as hell, and the song is longer then sin, but it works for me.

9. Look At Me – Julia with new lyrics. Seriously, that is what this song is. Julia is much better. Pass.

10. God – And here we have the song that killed it for me for ever liking John to any extent. I’m a religious person and I hold this song as one of the most negative I’ve ever heard. Call me shallow if you must and don’t bother trying to explain the meaning of the song to me. I’m not going to change my mind. John doesn’t believe in anything except himself and Yucko. That’s great. What a happy person he must have been. A repeating song of nothing more then negativity. What joy.

11. My Mummys Dead – Rainbows and unicorns here people. Even John says its been so many years ago, but he’s hell bent on reminding us every chance he has. Song sounds like it was recorded on a 1920’s slate record. Horrible.


Geez, listening to this album made me remember why I prefer the other three guy’s solo efforts. The production here is horrible and all the instruments sound the same in every song. Almost makes me think it was a half assed effort. People argue that John sang about his true emotions and wore his feelings on his shoulder. If that’s the case, they can have him. Give me a Paul record any day. At least I wont feel like hanging myself afterwards.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 22, 2013, 04:07:59 PM
Great review Cor and its good to hear from Kevin again. The contrast here is interesting. You have one camp that enjoys the emotions and 'honesty' of the album, and then we have the other camp that thinks John pulled the wool over their eye's. I fall into into the second side. I think John wanted us to think he was that screwed up and emotionally distraught most of the time. He lays it on so thick that I cant take him seriously. Here we have a 30 year old man that has very few to no memories of his mother and father and he's coming across as being so mentally tore up about it that he can barely handle it. Seriously? I dont believe him. I lost my father 10 years ago, and although I miss him, I feel i'm doing alright. Of course we also have to take into account of how he's the social recluse and the loaner. Yeah, nobody liked poor John and he felt alone. Again, give me a break. I dont have the energy to go into anymore detail. If I could say one thing about John Lennon, it would be that he was one hell of an actor. 
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on February 22, 2013, 04:22:06 PM
Your views are respectable Todd, even though I don't agree with most of what you wrote here. I think that liking this album depends more on what you look for in a record than on musical taste; there's a slight difference between both things.

With regard to "God", I'm also a believer and I have my own feelings about this song too. I'll explain it when I do my review, but that will be in a couple of weeks because I have to travel to my girlfriend's city in order to help her with the preparation of our wedding.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Kevin on February 22, 2013, 04:29:17 PM
Hello Tk. good points.
I too lost my mum at 5 and I'm not torn apart. But different people deal with things in different ways.
But again, I don't want to defend Johns emotions. He was a self pitying self obsessive, but i think he honestly believed this, however misguidingly.
And i think it's that raw emotion (however misplaced) that gives this album frisson. I'd compare it to Neil Young's Tonights The Night. It's a glimpse into a tortured head. I can't believe he was putting it on.
And I can't believe I'm defending John bl**dy Lennon.
I'll be going to church next.  :)
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 22, 2013, 05:18:16 PM
I too lost my mum at 5 and I'm not torn apart. But different people deal with things in different ways.

Your right of course, but to think he was that mental about it is frustrating. Its almost as though John held a grudge against everything except for what was right there in front of him. Maybe he did.

Quote
But again, I don't want to defend Johns emotions. He was a self pitying self obsessive, but i think he honestly believed this, however misguidingly.

I just cant fall that deep into it. I still feel that John used his status to kind of push the issue. I guess i'm trying to say that I feel a lot of his issues were thrown out there on purpose just for the shock of it. Maybe he wanted people to feel sorry for him or lavish in the idea that he was a tortured soul. I think it was more on the line of lack of creativity. He didnt have a lot to say, but when he wanted to say something, he wanted it to count. I'm rambling. Sorry.

Quote
I can't believe he was putting it on.
And I can't believe I'm defending John bl**dy Lennon.

I cant believe he was that depressed. It wasnt just this album either. Somebody should have told him that its ok to be happy once in awhile.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on February 22, 2013, 05:26:42 PM
John almost always wrote songs about himself, and one could feel indentified or not with them. Plastic Ono Band is no more than a maximization of this. It's said that when you have a mental problem (like John at that moment) your personality is expressed at a much higher level.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 22, 2013, 10:46:02 PM
Great review Cor and its good to hear from Kevin again. The contrast here is interesting. You have one camp that enjoys the emotions and 'honesty' of the album, and then we have the other camp that thinks John pulled the wool over their eye's. I fall into into the second side. I think John wanted us to think he was that screwed up and emotionally distraught most of the time. He lays it on so thick that I cant take him seriously. Here we have a 30 year old man that has very few to no memories of his mother and father and he's coming across as being so mentally tore up about it that he can barely handle it. Seriously? I dont believe him. I lost my father 10 years ago, and although I miss him, I feel i'm doing alright. Of course we also have to take into account of how he's the social recluse and the loaner. Yeah, nobody liked poor John and he felt alone. Again, give me a break. I dont have the energy to go into anymore detail. If I could say one thing about John Lennon, it would be that he was one hell of an actor. 

I cant help feeling your missing the point here Todd..........like you Ive lost my Dad (and my Mum), we all lose our parents but my parents wanted me when I was a child, they nurtured me and loved me (as I hope yours did) Johns parents simply didnt want him, they didnt want to live with him, Julia gave him to Mimi, his Dad f***ed off to sea, he spent his early (and adolescence) childhood knowing his parents didnt want him.....thats way different that your loving  parents dying.

Also, I dont know if you have read about Primal Therapy, but the whole point of the course is to feel self pity, you are encouraged to be angry at your parents and feel self pity (like in the song Mother), its a concept you have to grasp before slating the song lyrically.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on February 22, 2013, 11:48:18 PM
I bought it today and have listened to it a couple of times, I'll give it a couple more and then I'll attempt to make some kind of response.

Did a few of you buy this album back in December 1970?
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 22, 2013, 11:57:01 PM
...we all lose our parents but my parents wanted me when I was a child, they nurtured me and loved me (as I hope yours did) Johns parents simply didnt want him, they didnt want to live with him, Julia gave him to Mimi, his Dad f***ed off to sea, he spent his early (and adolescence) childhood knowing his parents didnt want him.....

I'm fortunate to still have my mom and dad whose love has guided me through the years.  I cannot begin to imagine what life would have been like under conditions experienced by John.  He was affected deeply by what happened to him as a child.  His life wasn't easy.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 23, 2013, 01:36:29 AM
I cant help feeling your missing the point here Todd..........like you Ive lost my Dad (and my Mum), we all lose our parents but my parents wanted me when I was a child, they nurtured me and loved me (as I hope yours did) Johns parents simply didnt want him, they didnt want to live with him, Julia gave him to Mimi, his Dad f***ed off to sea, he spent his early (and adolescence) childhood knowing his parents didnt want him.....thats way different that your loving  parents dying.

Also, I dont know if you have read about Primal Therapy, but the whole point of the course is to feel self pity, you are encouraged to be angry at your parents and feel self pity (like in the song Mother), its a concept you have to grasp before slating the song lyrically.

I suppose I am missing the point to some extent. I never take into account that John was doing his goofy primal scream therapy and I guess he's written these songs in accordance to that. It makes more sense in that fact, but I cant agree with the theory behind it all. Was it Yoko who convinced John to attend these sessions? I ask, because if John went on his own dime then he was still feeling emotionally screwed up about his childhood. I guess i'm speaking for myself, but if my mother and father didnt want me, then f*** them. I wouldnt sit around moping about it for the rest of my life.

Maybe I just need to read up on the whole album again as its been years and I havent had much interest in it. Its just not a good listen for me. Its the exact opposite actually, but thats what he was shooting for in the end right?
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 23, 2013, 01:52:34 AM
I suppose I am missing the point to some extent. I never take into account that John was doing his goofy primal scream therapy and I guess he's written these songs in accordance to that. It makes more sense in that fact, but I cant agree with the theory behind it all. Was it Yoko who convinced John to attend these sessions? I ask, because if John went on his own dime then he was still feeling emotionally screwed up about his childhood. I guess i'm speaking for myself, but if my mother and father didnt want me, then f*** them. I wouldnt sit around moping about it for the rest of my life.

Maybe I just need to read up on the whole album again as its been years and I havent had much interest in it. Its just not a good listen for me. Its the exact opposite actually, but thats what he was shooting for in the end right?

you have to try to put yourself in his position, Im sure he said 'f*** them' to himself many many times, but in the end that doesnt fulfill you and it doesnt get rid of the well of anger deep inside,  he therefore became a bad boy, a sort of thug, his anger was manifesting itself in terms of an angry young man, who 'didnt give a f***' about anything except rock n roll..........its a classic case of Freudian theory.

Johns anger though, manifested itself  into him wanting to be a teddy boy and a leather clad  Elvis who cosy middle class parents didnt like and teachers hated.......and I honestly think without this anger and angst, there may not have been any Quarrymen or Beatles.

Full marks to John imo for 'doing' Primal Therapy and realizing that thugism and anger is not the way to live, I think it did him good, I think it made him a better person.

Yes the album is self obsessed, but its supposed to be.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 23, 2013, 01:54:20 AM
His life wasn't easy.

Care to elaborate on this Barry? He lived better then the other three even if his parents werent around. Lets not forget that we're talking about a guy who had the world by the balls at age 18. He didnt have it very bad in my opinion.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 23, 2013, 02:03:45 AM
you have to try to put himself in his position

I've tried Kev. It's still hard for me to believe he held onto all that anger for all that time. I couldnt do it.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 23, 2013, 02:23:38 AM
Care to elaborate on this Barry? He lived better then the other three even if his parents werent around. Lets not forget that we're talking about a guy who had the world by the balls at age 18. He didnt have it very bad in my opinion.

Todd, I'm not talking about his artistc capabilities or his financial status.  I was referring to his emotional state.  Do we really know what troubled him?  Were any of us close to him?  Each of us are troubled by something.  And each of us react to similar circumstances in different ways.  If John let out his feelings the way he did at that point in his life, there was a reason for it.  I can only take what he had to say at face value and not speculate as to his motives.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 23, 2013, 02:51:19 AM
It's still hard for me to believe he held onto all that anger for all that time. I couldnt do it.

There had to be other things that troubled him too besides being abandoned by his parents.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 23, 2013, 03:05:05 AM
Todd, I'm not talking about his artistc capabilities or his financial status.  I was referring to his emotional state.  Do we really know what troubled him?  Were any of us close to him?  Each of us are troubled by something.  And each of us react to similar circumstances in different ways.  If John let out his feelings the way he did at that point in his life, there was a reason for it.  I can only take what he had to say at face value and not speculate as to his motives.

I understand. It seems a lot of people jump on the John bandwagon because he was the emotional one or the rebel. Its just too much for me to jump on board. Its almost exhausting. Nobody should take life that seriously.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 23, 2013, 03:22:25 AM
I understand. It seems a lot of people jump on the John bandwagon because he was the emotional one or the rebel. Its just too much for me to jump on board. Its almost exhausting. Nobody should take life that seriously.

And I appreciate how you feel, Todd.  I'm a Beatles fan and I love their music.  But they are/were human beings with both virtues and faults.  We "know" them by the music, movies and music videos they gave us and by what people remember and wrote about them.  Some authors are credible and some are not.  We have suppositions about their personalities and that's the extent to which we know them.

Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Snoopy66 on February 23, 2013, 10:32:05 PM
My 2nd favourite solo Beatle album.
One of the things I like about Johns music is that he always wrote and sang about what was in his head at that time (like a diary), a kind of social commentary on what he thought about certain issues, sometimes his views may have been misguided but he was always honest about the subject he wrote about, every song on this and Imagine is a dialogue of his thoughts on whatever was going on, it doesnt really matter if you agree with him, but he's being honest in his songs and he's saying something, using his songs as a vehicle to express opinion.

My problem with Pauls albums is always the opposite of this, I have absolutely no idea what Paul is singing about most of the time, I dont know what a Monkberry Moon delight is, or a C Moon, or why he says he is a Bluebird, or why his band is on the run, it all sounds very 'twee' to me, a pity, as Paul WAS capable of writing great lyrics when he could be bothered.......Ive always been a lyrics fan and I love it when artists have something to say,

I actually dont think there are that many artists that could have written this album, its not easy to kind of bare your soul to millions of people in an attempt to tell the world what is wrong with you, but I dont think anyone can imagine what its like to have parents who dont want you, after all when you a little child, your parents are THE most important people in your life, they are your rock which your whole being is pivoted on, you want them to love you and care for you, I simply cant imagine what it must be like if the opposite applies.
Good on John for releasing this pain in music and exorcising those inner feelings of inadequacy, and for wanting 'his' truth to be told.
I feel pretty much the same about John's solo work. He just wrote what he had in mind and you know when you listen to his records, how and what he was feeling right then.

POB is a very personal album, probably the most personal of John's solo-career and I always find it painful to listen to it all songs all together at once. The lyrics are powerful and I love John's voice, full of emotions.

Snoopy
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 24, 2013, 07:38:55 PM
Why is POB a personal album?

We all pretend to really know all our heroes personally and can therefore tell that an album has this or that feeling and is a personal document or not. I really don't know whether POB is a personal album and whether John was showing his inner soul to us. Why is this album more personal than any other album? Like I said before, of course it can be so that the songs and lyrics appeal to listeners in one way or another.
I guess that McCartney and Ram could be personal albums to Paul. But probably not recognized in such a way.

So, I can't judge whether and album is a personal document or not and think it's an irrelevant discussion. I can give a personal opinion on what I hear.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 25, 2013, 01:46:03 AM
I hear you Cor. It feels like he's trying too hard to me. Laying it on too thick maybe.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 25, 2013, 04:19:56 AM
Why is POB a personal album?
Why is this album more personal than any other album?


because he is singing about his feelings for his parents in a very direct way, he is telling us in no uncertain terms what his feelings are about them, also his feelings about other people who were closest to him, also his feelings about people he admired like Elvis & Dylan & Jesus, I can think of no other album where the artist lays out his feelings about the people in his life so plainly & directly.

I dont see how an album like McCartney is giving out a personal vibe at all, all he tells us is that he loves Linda, and he's amazed by it.....well surprise surprise, Id never have guessed that Paul !!
When he sings about Kreena Kroori (spelling) what is he saying about them ? that he loves them ? or hates them ? he sings a song about an unknown boy called Ted, who exactly is Ted ? theres a track called Junk, how is that personal ? does he like walking around rubbish dumps looking at stuff ? what is Glasses all about ? I dont see much about this album that is personal except he thinks Linda is lovely....thats all he's telling us
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 25, 2013, 06:23:13 AM
also his feelings about people he admired like Elvis & Dylan & Jesus,

You mean the people he didnt believe in?


I'll stop treading on you and Cor's conversation Kev. I will say that I though that each John release got a little better then the previous for some reason. Maybe he started to lighten up a little.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Snoopy66 on February 25, 2013, 07:19:53 AM
Todd, I'm not talking about his artistc capabilities or his financial status.  I was referring to his emotional state.  Do we really know what troubled him?  Were any of us close to him?  Each of us are troubled by something.  And each of us react to similar circumstances in different ways.  If John let out his feelings the way he did at that point in his life, there was a reason for it. 
Well said Barry, I fully agree on that  :)

Snoopy
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 25, 2013, 08:26:36 AM
because he is singing about his feelings for his parents in a very direct way, he is telling us in no uncertain terms what his feelings are about them, also his feelings about other people who were closest to him, also his feelings about people he admired like Elvis & Dylan & Jesus, I can think of no other album where the artist lays out his feelings about the people in his life so plainly & directly.

My point is: how do you know these feelings are genuine?

Quote
I dont see how an album like McCartney is giving out a personal vibe at all, all he tells us is that he loves Linda, and he's amazed by it.....well surprise surprise, Id never have guessed that Paul !!
When he sings about Kreena Kroori (spelling) what is he saying about them ? that he loves them ? or hates them ? he sings a song about an unknown boy called Ted, who exactly is Ted ? theres a track called Junk, how is that personal ? does he like walking around rubbish dumps looking at stuff ? what is Glasses all about ? I dont see much about this album that is personal except he thinks Linda is lovely....thats all he's telling us

John is singing 'Oh Yoko' and 'I just believe in me, Yoko and me and that's reality'. Paul is singing Maybe I'm Amazed.
Like John, we don't know what's going on in Paul's mind to produce an album like he did. Like POB, McCartney is an artistic product and therefore a personal thing.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 25, 2013, 09:38:21 AM
I dont really understand what your saying Cor

Im pretty sure Johns feelings were genuine as he was investing months and months of his life in primal Therapy with Dr Janov, Id say to move to LA and live more or less in the clinic for several months means that you are pretty genuine about it.
The whole album is based around his experiences with primal Therapy and the deep rooted demons that it (the course) unleashes.

I dont understand why you and Todd have some sort of problem with this. Its like your both constantly trying to undermine everything about John & his music.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 25, 2013, 10:15:44 AM
Its like your both constantly trying to undermine everything about John & his music.

If you read my two most recent reviews then you know that's not true.

I'm just trying to point out that because John was clearer in the things he was singing about, a lot of fans regard his output as 'honest' or 'personal'. To me, Johns output is no more honest or personal than that of any other artist, as I believe that every artist (singer, painter, sculpturer or whatever) is trying to put something personal into his or her artistic product. Whether you like it or not, to me, McCartney or Ram or even Press To Play is no more or less honest and personal than POB or Imagine.

John had been busy with this primal scream thing and it shows on the album he was making at that time. I'd rather wish he had done a laugh therapy, but that's just me. Paul was clearing up his mind in Scotland at that time, George was getting himself into to Indian music and philosophy in the early 70s. In one way or another, the things they were experiencing at that time, is always coming back into the music they were making. One can like that music or not. I don't like everything Paul or George did at that time and I don't like everything John did. I'm judging John's music here because that is what I can do and it's a very personal judgment.

Is a work of Rembrandt or Van Gogh more honest or personal than that of Picasso?
Is a novel written by E.L. James more honest or personal than that of Dostowjevski?
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 25, 2013, 11:07:42 AM

John had been busy with this primal scream thing and it shows on the album he was making at that time. I'd rather wish he had done a laugh therapy, but that's just me.

For me that one flippant remark says you have very litle sympathy for him or interest in what he was going through in his post Beatle life, like Todd saying earlier that he was a damn good actor implying that he wrote this album for the publics sympathy....I too wish John had been happier in his life but he wasnt, he had issues, Im a huge Beatle fan and I hate the thought of any of my heroes being unhappy or traumatised, they gave me so much when I was young and growing up eagerly awaiting their next move, The Beatles are entwined in the fabric of my growing up years and I frequently think how lucky I was to grow up in the Beatle era...I owe The Beatles an awful lot, Im glad John did PT, and Im glad it gave him some closure on his childhood trauma.
I would have thought it was as plain as the nose on your face that this is an immensly personal album and that John was baring his soul, I dont agree that its not and I dont agree that John was acting.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Snoopy66 on February 25, 2013, 12:19:43 PM
Its like your both constantly trying to undermine everything about John & his music.
Absolutely; it's plain to see and this isn't motivating for other members.

Snoopy
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 25, 2013, 12:29:46 PM
Absolutely; it's plain to see and this isn't motivating for other members.

Snoopy

Neither are your remarks. We're just having a healthy discussion in here. I don't care if other members find this motivating or not.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 25, 2013, 12:30:34 PM
Oh come on, Kevin. I'm not saying he's acting nor am I saying I have little interest in what John was going through. Please don't put words in my mouth. John was going through the primal scream thing and it shows on the album he was making at that time. To me and me personally, that is a dark and sinister album. That's my opinion and I'm not saying anything about having interest in what John was doing or not. Personally (once again) I usually like albums with a light note better and maybe that would have happened if John had taken a laugh therapy instead.

I'm not stating that POB is NOT a personal album. I agree it is. I am NOT saying that John is acting, that is just not what I'm saying. I believe the way he expresses himself on this album is as much as personal and/or honest as any other artist output. But what we have to bare in mind is that an artistic product, POB included, is always a way in which an artist expresses him/herself. The true inner feelings stay inside.
Every recording artist is baring his/her soul on any album that he/she produces. The fact that a lot of people recognize feelings that John is showing on this album, is wonderful but it doesn't make it a great album per se.

By the way, I can only truely see the nose on my face in the mirror. So probably it all isn't as plain as you state it is.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 25, 2013, 07:37:02 PM
Absolutely; it's plain to see and this isn't motivating for other members.

Snoopy

So if somebody doesnt agree or hold a John Lennon effort in high regard, it is bringing other members down? Everybody agreeing is the only healthy conversation around here? Please. Dont let the door hit you on the way out. 
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 25, 2013, 07:45:18 PM
One thing that blows my mind is that the majority of Beatle fans and the majority of the public grasp onto all of this depression and negativity. Is that normal human behavior? I've never seen the appeal. I guess I keep repeating myself and I need to stop, but I figure that John and I never saw eye to eye in how we feel and what we believe in. Thats never going to change and i'm never going to like this album. I reckon its time for me to move onto Imagine.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 25, 2013, 10:25:51 PM
So if somebody doesnt agree or hold a John Lennon effort in high regard, it is bringing other members down? Everybody agreeing is the only healthy conversation around here? Please. Dont let the door hit you on the way out. 

Your missing the point again Todd, It doesnt matter whether you like POB, I dont like a lot of Pauls solo albums...but I still love the guy immensely for the pleasure he has given me over my lifetime, I dont like Ringo's album's or Cloud Nine, but I still love the guys who made them....why ? because Im primarily a Beatle fan, I will always love all 4 guys...........with you and Cor its different, you not only dont like Johns albums or solo stuff (nothing wrong with that) but you rubbish his whole persona, you call him an actor, you infer that he was a person who was only interested in public sympathy, you attack him at every opportunity, youve stated before that you think 95% of his music is sh*t, I dont know why you hate the guy so much, is it because he says he doesnt believe in Jesus ? or that God is a concept ? I know you are a religious man.
I believe in God too but I dont dislike someone who is an atheist or non believer, they are entitled to their beliefs imo. (just as I am)
I knew the way Johns microscopes would go and I wasnt looking forward to these threads, each album would be rubbished and Johns persona would come into question........I think these solo album threads should just adhere to what we think of the music on them, not use them as a tool to berate John Lennon and make out he was a complete hypocrite and totally horrible guy who duped his fans by using his acting talent. Its quite insulting to us fans of The Beatles.
The fact is John gave pleasure to millions & millions of people the world over, how about giving him some credit for once for his achievements.

I must say Todd I dont like the remark youve made to Snoopy, inviting her to leave the forum, its nasty and uncalled for. I hope Snoopy doesnt leave she's entitled to her opinion, and as far as I can see she hasnt personally insulted anyone (as you have done to various members in the past)..........and Cor I would have thought you would care if members like snoopy post or dont post, isnt it admins job to encourage members to comment and be active ?

anyway, to cap things off, by all means criticize the music on POB or Imagine or Sometime in NYC no-one says you have to like them, but can we have less of the 'I hate John' campaign, we all know how you feel about him, you dont have to keep telling us.

I hope you wont ask me to leave the forum Todd, I still like you, I havent fallen out with you but I have to complain about the way you & Cor are using these threads.
 
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 26, 2013, 01:19:30 AM
Cheers, Kevin.



Today, for me, is a bit reminiscent of how I spent my day on December 8, 1980.  Both days were spent in the operating room.  In 1980, when I was through in the OR, I was still on duty until the following morning.  After a late supper, a number of us gathered in the doctors' lounge to watch TV.  And then we heard the news.

I was doing my residency training at The Mount Sinai Medical Center which is on the eastern boarder of Central Park.  We would often take our lunch out to the park on nice days.  It wasn't unusual to see John and Yoko out for a walk in the park.  I remember one late summer day in 1980 sitting on the lawn having lunch with a group of four or five other doctors when I noticed John and Yoko walking toward us on the path.  I shyly waved to them as they drew near.  John looked at me and said "hello doctor" as he passed.

On that awful night, those of us on duty could not leave the hospital grounds.  So we went up on the roof of one of the taller buildings in the complex.  From there, we could see across Central Park.  The area of the park by the Dakota was lit by TV crew lights.  We could hear the crowd that gathered singing Beatles songs.  This went on all night.  Those of us on the roof spent the night in quiet introspection.

I finished my training at that hospital two years later.  I never took lunch in the park again.  And I've avoided the west side of the park where John lived since then.

So, as I mentioned in another thread, my perspective of The Beatles is a bit different from some others' here on this Forum.  It's hard to believe, but in a few weeks I will have been on this Forum for seven years.  In that time, I've been impressed with the dedication displayed by Forum members to The Beatles.  Many came to hear of them after they made their mark on the 1960s.  Likewise, I've been impressed by the loyalty to individual members of the band shown by some Forum members.  And I've read of members' love of an individual Beatle taken to extremes.  I'm awed by that.  I truly am.  What an impact they've had on the world!

It's with that spirit that I would love to see discussion ensue on this Forum.  The Beatles themselves have been self-critical.  We can certainly be critical of them...and not critical of each other. 
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 26, 2013, 01:36:20 AM
theres a track called Junk, how is that personal ? does he like walking around rubbish dumps looking at stuff ?

Wait!  I like that song!    ;D
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 26, 2013, 02:51:46 AM
Wait!  I like that song!    ;D

it is a great song Barry ;)
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 26, 2013, 03:43:29 AM
And lest we forget, today is George's birthday.

Happy Birthday, George.  You're missed.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 26, 2013, 07:45:09 AM
Your missing the point again Todd, It doesnt matter whether you like POB, I dont like a lot of Pauls solo albums...but I still love the guy immensely for the pleasure he has given me over my lifetime, I dont like Ringo's album's or Cloud Nine, but I still love the guys who made them....why ? because Im primarily a Beatle fan, I will always love all 4 guys...........with you and Cor its different, you not only dont like Johns albums or solo stuff (nothing wrong with that) but you rubbish his whole persona, you call him an actor, you infer that he was a person who was only interested in public sympathy, you attack him at every opportunity, youve stated before that you think 95% of his music is sh*t, I dont know why you hate the guy so much, is it because he says he doesnt believe in Jesus ? or that God is a concept ? I know you are a religious man.
I believe in God too but I dont dislike someone who is an atheist or non believer, they are entitled to their beliefs imo. (just as I am)
I knew the way Johns microscopes would go and I wasnt looking forward to these threads, each album would be rubbished and Johns persona would come into question........I think these solo album threads should just adhere to what we think of the music on them, not use them as a tool to berate John Lennon and make out he was a complete hypocrite and totally horrible guy who duped his fans by using his acting talent. Its quite insulting to us fans of The Beatles.
The fact is John gave pleasure to millions & millions of people the world over, how about giving him some credit for once for his achievements.

I must say Todd I dont like the remark youve made to Snoopy, inviting her to leave the forum, its nasty and uncalled for. I hope Snoopy doesnt leave she's entitled to her opinion, and as far as I can see she hasnt personally insulted anyone (as you have done to various members in the past)..........and Cor I would have thought you would care if members like snoopy post or dont post, isnt it admins job to encourage members to comment and be active ?

anyway, to cap things off, by all means criticize the music on POB or Imagine or Sometime in NYC no-one says you have to like them, but can we have less of the 'I hate John' campaign, we all know how you feel about him, you dont have to keep telling us.

I hope you wont ask me to leave the forum Todd, I still like you, I havent fallen out with you but I have to complain about the way you & Cor are using these threads.
 

Alright that's it. I'm off for a while.
I am not using the John microscope threads in the way you are saying I do. I am critical towards his solo output as I have been towards Paul's solo output before.
I have never stated that John was an hypocrite, nor have I stated that he was a horrible guy. Somehow you say that I did that and am therefore not a true Beatles fans. ('it's insulting to us Beatlesfans') So, because I'm critical towards something a Beatle did, I'm not a true fan? It's plain ridiculous.

This place has always been a place that was open for discussion, but it obviously isn't any longer.

The remark towards Snoopy was as mean as the remark to me.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 26, 2013, 08:31:56 AM
Quote
I think John wanted us to think he was that screwed up and emotionally distraught most of the time. He lays it on so thick that I cant take him seriously

Quote
Here we have a 30 year old man that has very few to no memories of his mother and father and he's coming across as being so mentally tore up about it that he can barely handle it. Seriously? I dont believe him.

Quote
Yeah, nobody liked poor John and he felt alone. Again, give me a break

Quote
I dont have the energy to go into anymore detail. If I could say one thing about John Lennon, it would be that he was one hell of an actor.

character assassination of the highest level......................from a Beatle fan ?

maybe Mark Chapman wasnt so mad after all hey Todd ? John was a lying hypocrite and one hell of an actor = complete phoney.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 26, 2013, 01:57:10 PM
I'm typing this from my phone so I can't be bothered with quotes and so forth. Anyways kev  I like you a lot and your a highly respected member so I'm sorry that I offended you. I openly admitted earlier in this thread that my feelings toward John as a person was influencing my opinion of the music and that was something I needed to work on. I will say though that it seems your love for the guy is having the same effect on you at times. I didn't know there were rules that if you liked a band like the Beatles that you had to like every member. I respect john for what he did for us with some of his music. Heck he wrote some masterpieces that will live forever in popular music. He also wrote some crap. I happen to think most of his solo stuff is crap. Am I not entitled to that. It boggles my mind that you and Kevin would use POB as the anthem record for solo Beatle efforts. It's a poorly produced tense negative album and that's what you feel Beatle fans should use as the benchmark. I can't stand behind that. RAM is a happy frolicking record that actually sounds like a Beatles record but no votes for that. I also admit that I like more and more of johns solo stuff the further along we go. I can't help how I feel and what I like

For my remarks to snoopy I have nothing against her and I wasn't asking her to leave the forum. I was suggesting to leave the thread if it bothered her so much. I guess I wasn't clear enough. Sorry. I won't apologize for me remark though. She basically said that if people didn't feel the way she did then it was wrong or uncomfortable. I didn't know we all had to agree on everything to get along. If she felt that I was personally attacking John the I will apologize for that. Sorry. I still feel a lot of POB was BS and John wrote it for shock value. It obviously worked as fans ate it up. Anyways when I review Imagine it's probably not going to be real positive. If that's such an issue feel free to ban me or whatever you feel the need to do
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Kevin on February 26, 2013, 06:18:26 PM
hi guys..
Just want to say that from my humble point of view liking Beatle music doesn't mean I have to like The Beatles as people. I don't. John Lennon has always struck me as a particularly ugly human being.  McCartney doesn't come up smelling of roses either. Harrison was terribly flawed.
But I'll say again none of us would look that good (I assume) if we were put under such intense scrutiny.
But this makes them interesting.
I don't have any "spiritual" connection with them as people or their music. They were a pop/rock band that wrote great music and are very interesting. That's it. I am interested in them in the same was as I'm interested in Ghengis Khan or Hitler. I could talk for hours about Adolf but I wouldn't have him around for dinner.
John Lennon could be a self obbsessed ar*se. McCartney could be a callous cold hearted manipulator.
I say this not to be a troll or upset people. I say it to defend my position that I don't have to like them as people. I adore their music. I find them very interesting. Don't think I'd want them as friends.
And I thing this forum is all the more stronger because we're not all involved in some love fest.
All the power to you that do.
But expect some discussion.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 26, 2013, 09:40:54 PM
Well said as usual Kevin. I cant help but feel that i've made a mess of this whole thread, because I have a hard time differentiating John as the person and the music he created. I feel that I really havent said what I want to. I cant find the words for some reason. Maybe i'm just too dumb. Might as well call me a hypocrite because I guess I am. I'm capping on John for being such a negative person and I havent taken the time to look in a mirror lately. I'm a very negative person too, as you all know. What i'm really trying to say I suppose is that its hard for me to describe these songs without using John as a person for an example. Its still not coming out right. Oh well.

The longer I absorbed the Beatles and the people they were, the harder it was to like John Lennon in my opinion. Everybody's aware of his shortcomings, but I get disgusted at the public when they swoon over him and declare him such a peace activist and a spokesperson for love. Thats where it comes from when I say he puts on an act. People and fans dont want to hear about the bad crap. All they want to hear is that he wrote 'Give Peace A Chance' and he's some adorable, loving figure. Why cant we accept both? We can, but its hard for me when most people I know think so highly of the guy. I remember when 'Double Fantasy' came out and my friend and I were ecstatic over it. He seemed to shake the funk that was always bringing him down. Just like he wrote, he started over and it sounded great. He was finally happy and content and it showed. The album was well produced and the songs were wonderful. I've said it more then once that if he got rid of Yucko's crap and added his 'Milk and Honey' output, that would have been one of the greatest albums ever written and easily the best solo effort.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 26, 2013, 11:00:42 PM
hi guys..
Just want to say that from my humble point of view liking Beatle music doesn't mean I have to like The Beatles as people.

I think thats fair enough to say, we now know that George was a womaniser and unfaithful to his wife (as she stated in the recent documentary)..........John had flaws for sure, Ive never denied that, and Im not some adoring swooning fan who pretends they were all angels (they wernt) they were your average working class lads from a scruffy working class city.

I think what has annoyed me most on this thread particularly is the notion that I (along with millions of others) have been totally duped by John Lennon, that he was a phoney, a liar who was acting when he did primal therapy and wrote the album to describe his experiences, it seems that certain people on the forum 'know' this for sure and us poor adoring idiots go and believe all that Lennon tripe, it makes me feel like some hopelessly besotted Lennon whore because when I hear the opening bars of 'Remember' and his voice singing the opening line it excites me and I want to hear more.

John was no angel, Ive said it before, he could be a cruel bastard (one of the reasons he undertook primal therapy)....but to be told he was basically just a salesman doing his job (which usually involves lying & acting) when he wrote and made POB, well I just cant accept that..........Ive heard loads of people say they think its a crap album, I can accept that after all music is subjective, but when someone says it wasnt a genuine effort to convey theyre experiences of PT theyre just speculating and attacking the guys whole persona.

I feel these whole Lennon microscope threads have been basically an excuse to make out that John was just sh*te post Beatles and basically not worth the tape they were recorded onto.

Anyway, I seem to be batting alone here and as Cor insinuates I am stifling the open discussion that used to take place on the forum with my remarks so I will back of these microscope threads and expostulate no further.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 26, 2013, 11:08:56 PM
Just another word if I maye, this review by the BBC's Garry Mulholland (another one who was duped by actor John ? ) sums up what I feel about the album very well (and much better than I could ever scribble;


Garry Mulholland 2010-08-27
The first John Lennon solo album has had its fair share of acclaim. It was well-reviewed upon its release, and reached the top ten in both the US and UK, despite the absence of a major hit single. In the 40 years since it has routinely turned up in all those critics’ lists of best-ever albums, albeit way, way below the most admired Beatles sets. It’s firmly established as one of those grown-up rock classics that grown-up rock fans should own. But here’s the rub: Plastic Ono Band is still grossly underrated.
One suspects that Plastic Ono Band’s standing might be somewhat more elevated if its maker was still alive. But this 40-minute, 11-song exercise in stark sonic claustrophobia and bitter autobiographical purging doesn’t fit with the sentimentalised posthumous image of Lennon as Utopian dreamer and modern-day Jesus. The biographical context doesn’t help – anyone could be forgiven for imagining that a record inspired by Arthur Janov’s primal scream therapy and Lennon’s twin obsessions with Yoko Ono and his dead mother Julia would be hard work at best, and a bunch of self-indulgent avant-garde ravings at worst.
But the reality of Plastic Ono Band is that it contains eleven of Lennon’s most accessible and gorgeous melodies and riffs; it’s pure Beatles, but with the layers of studio sophistry stripped away to reveal the nub of the confessional crux. The heartbreaking scream of loss that is Mother.

The mirror image of My Mummy’s Dead and its invention of all things lo-fi. And, in-between, the savaging of aspiration in Working Class Hero, the pinched proto-punk fury of I Found Out and Well Well Well, the fear and self-loathing of Remember and Isolation, the poignant grasps for comfort within Love and Hold On, and the slaughter of gods, monsters, The Beatles and the false idols of the 1960s in the peerless God, which is still, very possibly, the most thematically ambitious and courageous rock song ever recorded.

All this, and a sound sculpted by Lennon, Ono and Phil Spector which drops you smack dab in the middle of a room at Abbey Road studios feeling the most famous man of his generation bare his soul and flaunt his demons to a world which didn’t want that much information. Plastic Ono Band’s greatest achievement is that, the more Lennon reveals about himself, the more universal his themes become. It’s this mysterious magic that makes Lennon’s solo debut a definitive work of art about how, and why, the personal and the political are one and the same.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on February 26, 2013, 11:43:47 PM
I don't know if I could ever write enough about this album.

I don't think I could stand to read a bunch of old blokes bickering between one another either.

If you dislike it you perhaps don't understand it.

There are certain things that are beyond even such as highly advanced an individual as me.

Peace and Love.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 27, 2013, 03:23:13 AM
Here's the end results of a review by Nick Butler at Sputnik Music. He says what I tried to, but couldnt find the words.

Quote
Plastic Ono Band should be acknowledged, understood, even respected. But how the hell anyone can enjoy this mess is beyond me. Clearly, there are an awful lot of people who DO like it (check the RS number!), but I just cannot get into that mindset, which is something I can't say about any other album. There are those who have claimed you need to be deeply depressed, or have experienced mental instability, to truly love this record. Thing is, I've experienced both, and I still hate it. Everything from the production (shoddy at best), to the basslines (plodding and bored), to the piano parts (far too simplistic), to the lyrics (truly awful), is shockingly bad. Had anyone other than John Lennon recorded this, it'd have been immediately dismissed and forgotten. Hell, it probably wouldn't even have been released. I guess that sort of critical blindness is the perk of being a former Beatle. Even John himself seemed desperate to forget this, returning immediately to the sound he was famous for on "Imagine".

John Lennon is undoubtedly capable of writing deeply personal, cutting, great songs (see "Help!" and "Jealous Guy" ). Here, he fails to do so, time and time again. What Lennon failed to realize is that there are far better ways to express your anger than throwing a tantrum. Ever heard anyone say that Yoko Ono ruined John Lennon? They were lying. It was Dr. Arthur Janov. Here's your proof.

Yeah, screw these microscope threads. Its obvious if you dont care for a record by John your going to get crucified around here. I kind of knew it was going to happen anyways. The solo microscope threads werent going to work anyways, because most of the so called Beatle fans around here dont own 3/4's of it anyhow, so whats the point? Lets all just go back to posting pictures of them, typing what Beatle items we last bought, and discuss the weather around us. That's exciting and should be safe for everybody. Shut it down Cor.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 27, 2013, 09:52:31 AM
Here's the end results of a review by Nick Butler at Sputnik Music. He says what I tried to, but couldnt find the words.

Yeah, screw these microscope threads. Its obvious if you dont care for a record by John your going to get crucified around here.

well I was intending saying no more but fecking hell Todd, this has got to be the understatement of all time...

'if you dont care for the album'  ha2ha

never mind that you ripped the guy to shreds, character assasinated him...called him a phoney fake liar,.......its all because you 'didnt care for the album '

 ha2ha ha2ha

very funny mate


Quote
For my remarks to snoopy I have nothing against her and I wasn't asking her to leave the forum. I was suggesting to leave the thread if it bothered her so much.

so snoopy dared to question you about your Lennon views and your answer to her was to suggest she leave the thread ? speaking as a mod I dont think you should be asking posters to leave the thread and to 'shut the door behind them '........no wonder post numbers are dwindling around here when you can speak to people like that.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 27, 2013, 10:44:25 AM
You only read what you want to read. You have accused me of a lot of things and have hardly responded to that. If you had read my review properly, you would have noticed that I'm not and nowhere stating that John was an acting fool or misguiding us. You're only picking up the lines that suit your opinion.

I have resigned from my administrator status.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Snoopy66 on February 27, 2013, 01:32:10 PM
I have resigned from my administrator status.
That's the best thing you could do, thank's  :laugh:
Snoopy
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 27, 2013, 01:49:43 PM
That's the best thing you could do, thank's  :laugh:
Snoopy

Guess what. I don't want to be a part of it at all. I'm leaving the forum and hope that is better off with you instead of me.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Kevin on February 27, 2013, 04:26:46 PM
Well this has turned into a bunch of cr*p hasn't it. Good grief. I was only here 5 minutes. And we're only arguing about pop music - what would you guys be like over something actually serious?
TK things Lennon is a charlton. Bobber can't stand POB. Great. I don't think he was and I do. Isn't that why we come here. Don't know about you guys but I couldn't strike up a discussion about Beatle albums with the wife.
One final thing Lennonists - if John is going to make a "personal" album then ipso facto people are going to talk about his personality. Aren't they?
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 27, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
Where do I say I can't stand the album? Where do I say Lennon is lying? Where do I say he's a hypocrite? Where is it clear that I am abusing the microscope threads to slam John Lennon? I admit I haven't been very flattering in the reviews of the albums he made with Yoko. Maybe I should have praised them, I don't know. On all other accounts: proof me wrong. It is said that I've been negative and that it wasn't motivating towards other members. Oh well.

I've been accused of these things over and over again, yet I haven't seen a quote with my name on it. I have been critical towards POB as I have been towards other albums. Nothing more, nothing less. I can stand a good discussion, I've been in here long enough. But the fact that I am leaving this place is not the fact that someone disagrees with me, but because I'm truely disappointed that I have been falsely accused plus that a member with 125 posts which hardly contains any useful information, thinks that I have made the right decision to resign as an admin. I have been here eight intensive years and stood up for many members and usually backed up the mods. If Snoopy66 can do a better job, I challenge her to do so. Good luck with it.

In the meantime, I am deleting personal information in here and say farewell after that.

Two hours later. The big dictator wouldn't let me go and offered me a Russian raise in the salary..I'm gonna have big break anyway.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 27, 2013, 10:51:46 PM
As for being falsely accused Cor, It has to be said  these John microscope threads are a complete joke, there is no thought at all gone into yours or Todds reviews, they look like they were written by a 12 year old to me reviewing his parents records that he hates.........'this is sh*t,' etc etc ........come on, what hope is there of building constructive comment where its all based around comments like these ?

and as for you quiting your 'job' as admin, why would you do that ? are you so sensitive you cant stand criticism ? also imo if you are going to leave the forum then just stop posting and leave, why announce it several times in separate posts ?

Anyway I dont know why your freaking out over this after all you did say on page 1 of this review

quote;

' I want to see some fireworks in this thread.' :D
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 27, 2013, 11:45:34 PM
Well this has turned into a bunch of cr*p hasn't it. Good grief. I was only here 5 minutes. And we're only arguing about pop music - what would you guys be like over something actually serious?
TK things Lennon is a charlton. Bobber can't stand POB. Great. I don't think he was and I do. Isn't that why we come here. Don't know about you guys but I couldn't strike up a discussion about Beatle albums with the wife.
One final thing Lennonists - if John is going to make a "personal" album then ipso facto people are going to talk about his personality. Aren't they?

Kevin, I dont care about people not liking Johns music but when they rubbish him personally and call him a fake I get annoyed and have to support John. I cant help it, its in my DNA ;)

If people are offended by my support of John and quit the forum that is their decision, I dont see why anyone would quit the forum over a disagreement but everyone is different.........anyways if your going to be outspoken and have partisan views against somebody or something, someone is going to disagree with you sooner or later (ie me) :D
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 28, 2013, 01:24:18 AM
As for being falsely accused Cor, It has to be said  these John microscope threads are a complete joke, there is no thought at all gone into yours or Todds reviews, they look like they were written by a 12 year old to me reviewing his parents records that he hates.........'this is sh*t,' etc etc ........come on, what hope is there of building constructive comment where its all based around comments like these ?

This is pure bullsh*t. First off, take the time to separate what I said from what Cor said. I was the one that said Lennon was as an actor and I still believe it. Whatever he could do to get a rise. He preys on human stupidity and its never been more obvious then this thread. Secondly, you think Cor and my reviews are a joke and thats only because they arent what you want to see. If I said the music is sh*t, then I think it is. Sorry I cant make you happy by praising the album because your idol wrote it. 

Quote
and as for you quiting your 'job' as admin, why would you do that ? are you so sensitive you cant stand criticism ? also imo if you are going to leave the forum then just stop posting and leave, why announce it several times in separate posts ?

Anyway I dont know why your freaking out over this after all you did say on page 1 of this review

Your asking Cor why he's about to leave after you've attacked the guy since his review? Wow.

Quote
' I want to see some fireworks in this thread.' :D

Obviously not allowed
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 28, 2013, 02:14:24 AM
This is pure bullsh*t. First off, take the time to separate what I said from what Cor said. I was the one that said Lennon was as an actor and I still believe it. Whatever he could do to get a rise. He preys on human stupidity and its never been more obvious then this thread. Secondly, you think Cor and my reviews are a joke and thats only because they arent what you want to see. If I said the music is sh*t, then I think it is. Sorry I cant make you happy by praising the album because your idol wrote it. 

Your asking Cor why he's about to leave after you've attacked the guy since his review? Wow.

Obviously not allowed

ahh so now Im stupid for liking John Lennon ?

In case you hadnt noticed Todd, this is a Beatle s forum, in praise of The Beatles, if you come on here calling John Lennon a phoney who preys on human stupidity, your going to upset somebody and maybe get some flak (which you obviously dont like)

Cors 'microscope threads' are f***ing abysmal, just a slagfest of all that is Lennon, and you seem to goad him on to disparage them even further, it seems there is no boundaries to your hatred of John Lennon............I offered to do the lennon microscope thread but Cor told me he was doing them, If I was doing them I would have written a few hundred words, I wouldnt have praised the early albums because I wasn't a fan of them but I would have tried to understand what was going on in his head at that time and I would have tried to formulate a cohesive appraisal of things like the gig he did with Clapton, how it came about, that he did that gig and how it came over as an album, a kind of review that might stimulate grown up discussion in a cohesive way......not just wooden off handish remarks like 'the drummer didnt sound interested'

Anyway, its a big difference of opinion, its not serious , no-one died, Im disappointed you calling me stupid for liking John Lennon Todd, I thought we were above  personal insults, but if that is what you feel then so be it.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 28, 2013, 03:05:57 AM
ahh so now Im stupid for liking John Lennon ?

I never said you were stupid Kev. I was merely suggesting that its a common fact that the majority of people jump on Johns coattails no matter what he does. It seems Cor and I are the only two that hasent and like I said before, we're getting crucified.

Quote
In case you hadnt noticed Todd, this is a Beatle s forum, in praise of The Beatles, if you come on here calling John Lennon a phoney who preys on human stupidity, your going to upset somebody and maybe get some flak (which you obviously dont like)

I have failed to see any rules mentioned anywhere that states everybody has to say and believe positive things about the Beatles here. If they do exist, please point them out to me. What is your problem with any kind of diversity anyways? The Beatles were just four guys that made some music and I dont like all of that music or even how some of them acted all the time. I'm sorry, but they arent anything more then that to me.

Quote
Cors 'microscope threads' are f***ing abysmal, just a slagfest of all that is Lennon, and you seem to goad him on to disparage them even further, it seems there is no boundaries to your hatred of John Lennon

Its been a slagfest because the stuff he released up this point has been f***ing abysmal. How am I goading him? Cor's a big boy. I'm not telling him what to do or how is opinion should be.

Quote
...I offered to do the lennon microscope thread but Cor told me he was doing them, If I was doing them I would have written a few hundred words, I wouldnt have praised the early albums because I wasn't a fan of them but I would have tried to understand what was going on in his head at that time and I would have tried to formulate a cohesive appraisal of things like the gig he did with Clapton, how it came about, that he did that gig and how it came over as an album, a kind of review that might stimulate grown up discussion in a cohesive way......not just wooden off handish remarks like 'the drummer didnt sound interested'

Nobody stopped you from typing all that stuff. Even if you did, would that have changed anybodys opinion of it. I wouldnt have even done a review of the first three record or the live gig. Why? Because they were all sh*t. Seriously Kev, even you have to admit that. Three albums of experimental mumble jumble and an unrehearsed live show that any bar band could have pulled off. How much discussion do you feel you would have received?

Quote
Anyway, its a big difference of opinion, its not serious , no-one died, Im disappointed you calling me stupid for liking John Lennon Todd, I thought we were above  personal insults, but if that is what you feel then so be it.

Well it seems to be getting pretty f***ing serious. Serious enough that the most active and respected person on the forum damn near left. I didnt call you stupid, but I see that it came across like that. Sorry.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 28, 2013, 03:19:06 AM
Eh, this is silly. I need to get my review in for 'Imagine'.  ha2ha
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 28, 2013, 03:31:18 AM
Quote
Well it seems to be getting pretty f***ing serious. Serious enough that the most active and respected person on the forum damn near left. I didnt call you stupid, but I see that it came across like that. Sorry.

If Cor is prepared to leave just because I criticised him then it shows him in a poor light, maybe he shouldnt be on an internet forum let alone be in charge of it......... if he is so sensitive to criticism, you 2 more of less told Snoopy to get lost and she's still around and Ive been told I talk crap on other forums and its like water off a ducks back, I'll leave when I want to leave (or when I get banned) and I wont threaten to leave several times like Cor has done (maybe looking for sympathy), I'll just leave..........upon saying all this I know you and Cor are joined at the hip so Im just p*ssing in the proverbial wind here..

Quote
The Beatles were just four guys that made some music and I dont like all of that music or even how some of them acted all the time. I'm sorry, but they arent anything more then that to me.

Then it begs the why are you on a Beatle fan forum ? are you here to wind people like me up by insinuating they are stupid for being a John Lennon fan ?

Im here because I adore The Beatles.........all 4 of them, to me they are/were monumentally great, nothing is better that The Beatles, I owe them heaps, what they did was Genius level..........any musician in the world wouldve given their 4 wisdom teeth to be in that 'Bar Room group' as you call it of John Lennons...........dont you realize that ? all John ever had to do was make a call.........all the Claptons, Pages, Becks, Kieth Richards wouldve done anything to be in Lennons or McCartneys band..........not because these guys were good actors but because they were Beatles and they were the best of the best.

Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 28, 2013, 03:57:17 AM
upon saying all this I know you and Cor are joined at the hip so Im just p*ssing in the proverbial wind here..

If you say so.

Quote
Then it begs the why are you on a Beatle fan forum ?

They are my favorite band, although I havent listened to a Beatles album since I did the reviews on them.Still though, they are only 4 people and nothing more. I've learned a lot about them on here whenever I was interested in knowing. I havent needed or wanted to know anything for some time though. Maybe its because i've been here since the beginning. Maybe i'm just waiting for something interesting to come along. I'm not sure.

Quote
are you here to wind people like me up by insinuating they are stupid for being a John Lennon fan ?

Maybe, if they act stupid enough.

Quote
Im here because I adore The Beatles.........all 4 of them, to me they are/were monumentally great, nothing is better that The Beatles, I owe them heaps,

I feel that i've given them heaps and no longer owe them anything. How long does the adoration last? If somebody asks me who my favorite band is, i'll tell them the Beatles, but thats as far it goes anymore.

Quote
what they did was Genius level..........any musician in the world wouldve given their 4 wisdom teeth to be in that 'Bar Room group' as you call it of John Lennons...........dont you realize that ? all John ever had to do was make a call.........all the Claptons, Pages, Becks, Kieth Richards wouldve done anything to be in Lennons or McCartneys band..........not because these guys were good actors but because they were Beatles and they were the best of the best.

Lol. What band are we talking about here, the Beatles or POB? Regardless, people would be silly to turn down the recognition. As for the list of people you made, yeah they would come running, why,,,because they were John's friend. You think Richards would have left the Stones for the POB or Page leaving Zeppelin? Uh no, I dont think so. Hell, lesser people then that left McCartneys lineups. It would be like dating a supermodel, seems great at first but eventually you would get sick of their sh*t. Best of the best is pretty broad too. I think most popular would be a better analogy.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 28, 2013, 04:22:26 AM
Don't worry guys, I will be off within a day. I'm just cleaning up and deleting personal pictures and information. After reading all this after my last post, my decision is final. I'm not sensitive and not afraid for a heated debate. I've been in many in here. I'm not leaving because I\m critised, but because I\m disappointed.
Nimrod, please take some time to reread your posts in the McCartney microscopes. You probably won't as you just read what you want to read and turn it your way as it suits you.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 28, 2013, 04:25:52 AM
You know, with the deletion there's an option to delete 'all posts made by this member'. You will all be freed from the badly written, negative and non stimulating microscope threads. And some other useless stuff.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 28, 2013, 06:13:47 AM
This place is amazing. One of the only f***ing people on here than can even come up with an interesting thing to say about the band anymore is leaving and for what? Because we didnt line up to blow Joihn Lennon like everybody else around here. What a f***ing shame.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dmitry on February 28, 2013, 07:02:54 AM
Yes, this place is amazing, amazing due to its members.

I can't get why adults behave like children - fighting and insulting. I know, we all like children from time to time; and maybe that’s why all wars begin? Me personally, from time to time I say various foolish things. Maybe because I'm not clever enough, maybe I don't informed well on a situation, or maybe I just don't know English well. I don't care much, to be true. And maybe even now I'm saying nonsense…

When Cor said to me he's gonna leave I answered him that then a dictatorship will be established here. I made this place in 2001 to let people discuss but not fight. I was a Beatles fan, now I’m not, but I keep this place (web hosting, progamms, etc.). I posted a lot and banned everyone who insults others without much investigation, now Cor and mods help me. I had plans to make some money, but now I know that it is impossible to make any real money here, so now the forums pay for itself only, and I keep this place.

Please respect each other and before answering something personal think if it worth it. You know what I’m thinking about? Not asking your opinion on it, but just thinking about. I’m gonna close the forums for a week or two. And during this couple of weeks we all became friends again because we’ll miss each other and this place. Won't we?  ;) It isn’t a decision yet, just thoughts.

(Sorry for my English?  ha2ha)
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Ovi on February 28, 2013, 08:25:08 AM
As for being falsely accused Cor, It has to be said  these John microscope threads are a complete joke, there is no thought at all gone into yours or Todds reviews, they look like they were written by a 12 year old to me reviewing his parents records that he hates.........'this is sh*t,' etc etc

I think this is a very, very ignorant thing to say. One thing is to not agree with their opinions, and other is to call them a "complete joke". Everybody in this thread expressed their opinions. Cor didn't call the whole album sh*t, he dismissed some songs and liked others. It's just the way it is. Todd said that he didn't feel that John was being sincere, which is again, just his opinion. He at least took the time to review the album song by song and admitted to liking some of them, a thing that can't be said about you during some of the McCartney microscope threads. Again, I feel that was a very unncessary and insulting comment.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dcazz on February 28, 2013, 11:16:08 AM
Yes, this place is amazing, amazing due to its members.

I can't get why adults behave like children - fighting and insulting. I know, we all like children from time to time; and maybe that’s why all wars begin? Me personally, from time to time I say various foolish things. Maybe because I'm not clever enough, maybe I don't informed well on a situation, or maybe I just don't know English well. I don't care much, to be true. And maybe even now I'm saying nonsense…

When Cor said to me he's gonna leave I answered him that then a dictatorship will be established here. I made this place in 2001 to let people discuss but not fight. I was a Beatles fan, now I’m not, but I keep this place (web hosting, progamms, etc.). I posted a lot and banned everyone who insults others without much investigation, now Cor and mods help me. I had plans to make some money, but now I know that it is impossible to make any real money here, so now the forums pay for itself only, and I keep this place.

Please respect each other and before answering something personal think if it worth it. You know what I’m thinking about? Not asking your opinion on it, but just thinking about. I’m gonna close the forums for a week or two. And during this couple of weeks we all became friends again because we’ll miss each other and this place. Won't we?  ;) It isn’t a decision yet, just thoughts.

(Sorry for my English?  ha2ha)
I think your english is very good and I understood what you said completly. I also agree with what you said as well. Lets keep things civil and respectful. In an awsome forum like this one personal digs have a heightened effect and tend to be a real turn off. True, emotions do get raised from time to time for different reasons but... shake hands, get over it and let's move on!
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on February 28, 2013, 11:49:13 AM
(http://i.qkme.me/3osbgs.jpg)

Have to save enough venom for the rest of his records.  ha2ha
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Kevin on February 28, 2013, 12:31:48 PM
I think this is a very, very ignorant thing to say.

I agree. A dumb thing to say. You just lost a lot of credibilty.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 28, 2013, 12:42:43 PM


I agree. A dumb thing to say. You just lost a lot of credibilty.


Ok guys Ive thought about this all day, Cor has been around here a lot longer than me (so has Todd) I feel like Im wrecking the vibe around here and my posts are not welcome, I get it  ;sorry...... theres no need to quit Cor, I will go, I wont post again.

Ive enjoyed being on here and getting to know some nice people, its been very nice (sincerley).

Kevin
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Kevin on February 28, 2013, 12:56:22 PM


Ok guys Ive thought about this all day, Cor has been around here a lot longer than me (so has Todd) I feel like Im wrecking the vibe around here and my posts are not welcome, I get it  ;sorry...... theres no need to quit Cor, I will go, I wont post again.

Ive enjoyed being on here and getting to know some nice people, its been very nice (sincerley).

Kevin

But your posts are welcome.
Most of us come here because we LIKE discussing The Beatles. and the joy of DM's is that we have such divergent views.
But criticing other people's method of posting was out of order, but not a capital offence.
can't everyone just stay and keep on doing what we like doing.
And bring on STINYC (which I quite like by the way, and it has a great back story.)
again - this is supposed to be FUN.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dmitry on February 28, 2013, 01:04:57 PM
Maybe it is my turn now?  ha2ha

Now, do we really need to make a break, during which we could spend our time with families, practice yoga, relax...?
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on February 28, 2013, 01:16:38 PM
(http://mechelen.cdenv.be/sites/mechelen/files/imagecache/news_detail/nieuws/uitgestoken-hand.jpg)
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dmitry on February 28, 2013, 02:03:58 PM
You know guys, the easiest way is to leave. We all together here for many years. And you were interested in being here and making the forums, you were loving it. I'm sure you're still love this place and, of course, love it's members. You're adults, and have a knowledge of life. What example are you setting? Think we are a one command which is not so easy to make. Do you really think you can just leave in one day because you just can't stand a episode? What it will mean then? That nothing is real? You have to make a compromise with each other. There are several wise messages on this topic, some of them are from young people. Think, please, before making any bad moves.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on February 28, 2013, 10:52:11 PM
([url]http://mechelen.cdenv.be/sites/mechelen/files/imagecache/news_detail/nieuws/uitgestoken-hand.jpg[/url])



(http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u661/PT_Handshake%20Clasped.jpg)
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on March 01, 2013, 12:55:49 AM

([url]http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u661/PT_Handshake%20Clasped.jpg[/url])


Sissies











(http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/peepwall.gif)
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on March 01, 2013, 08:59:48 AM
Sissies

That's a personal attack.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on March 01, 2013, 10:20:17 AM
That's a personal attack.

I agree. Your banned pal.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: nimrod on March 01, 2013, 10:27:13 PM
For my part in this I apologise for being over the top with rudeness (Todd & Cor) I realise now Ive had a bad week with the recovery for surgery, Ive pushed myself a bit too much in the physio and then gotten frustrated that I cant do certain things yet and its such a long & slow process, I think this has led to a level of impatience and made me a little depressed that its all taking so long, also everyone is at work and Im 'home alone' a lot of the time still unable to drive etc so getting frustrated with that also.............not making excuses or looking for sympathy but sometimes these things affect you in unexpected ways..

I'll take a bit of time off the forum till I feel more myself.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Bobber on March 01, 2013, 10:37:54 PM
For my part in this I apologise for being over the top with rudeness (Todd & Cor) I realise now Ive had a bad week with the recovery for surgery, Ive pushed myself a bit too much in the physio and then gotten frustrated that I cant do certain things yet and its such a long & slow process, I think this has led to a level of impatience and made me a little depressed that its all taking so long, also everyone is at work and Im 'home alone' a lot of the time still unable to drive etc so getting frustrated with that also.............not making excuses or looking for sympathy but sometimes these things affect you in unexpected ways..

I'll take a bit of time off the forum till I feel more myself.

It's all good Kevin. Take your time and hope to see you around again soon. I wish you a swift recovery.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hello Goodbye on March 02, 2013, 12:02:38 AM
Rest and do everything your wife tells you to do, Kevin.  You've got a great RN there to help you.

Barry
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Dcazz on March 02, 2013, 01:27:06 AM
For my part in this I apologise for being over the top with rudeness (Todd & Cor) I realise now Ive had a bad week with the recovery for surgery, Ive pushed myself a bit too much in the physio and then gotten frustrated that I cant do certain things yet and its such a long & slow process, I think this has led to a level of impatience and made me a little depressed that its all taking so long, also everyone is at work and Im 'home alone' a lot of the time still unable to drive etc so getting frustrated with that also.............not making excuses or looking for sympathy but sometimes these things affect you in unexpected ways..

I'll take a bit of time off the forum till I feel more myself.
Not too long though!
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on March 02, 2013, 04:10:26 AM
Calm down a bit all of ya's.

I don't care about what anybody else here says because they's all full of sh*t and I'm right so stick that.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on March 02, 2013, 04:52:55 PM
I apologize too. Its all mud under the bridge.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: ibanez_ax on March 02, 2013, 04:54:01 PM
For my part in this I apologise for being over the top with rudeness (Todd & Cor) I realise now Ive had a bad week with the recovery for surgery, Ive pushed myself a bit too much in the physio and then gotten frustrated that I cant do certain things yet and its such a long & slow process, I think this has led to a level of impatience and made me a little depressed that its all taking so long, also everyone is at work and Im 'home alone' a lot of the time still unable to drive etc so getting frustrated with that also.............not making excuses or looking for sympathy but sometimes these things affect you in unexpected ways..

I'll take a bit of time off the forum till I feel more myself.

Kevin, we had different types of surgery, but everything you've said is about exactly how I feel and what my experience is. The mental part can be very hard!  Which is also one of the reasons I haven't posted much on these boards.

Hang in there, and I'll do the same!
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on March 02, 2013, 04:57:49 PM
You both better hang in there and recover quickly. I'm running out of people to argue with.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on March 02, 2013, 09:19:28 PM
Yo b****.

Is Back To The Egg better than Plastic Ono Band?

And where did your ancestral monkeys come from?
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Yeshelloitsmehereagain on March 02, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
And the standard of reviewing has gone down for these John one's too. I know I haven't done a real review like I did for a few Paul albums giving the exact second when a cool little bit or sound or change or whatever occurs but that's because I need to listen aloud to the tracks whilst annotating and I simply haven't had the chance to do that yet. I shall come back and fix it or maybe I wont.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: The Swine on March 03, 2013, 07:54:00 PM
And the standard of reviewing has gone down for these John one's too. I know I haven't done a real review like I did for a few Paul albums giving the exact second when a cool little bit or sound or change or whatever occurs but that's because I need to listen aloud to the tracks whilst annotating and I simply haven't had the chance to do that yet. I shall come back and fix it or maybe I wont.

wont
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: tkitna on March 05, 2013, 02:08:49 AM
Yo b****.

Is Back To The Egg better than Plastic Ono Band?

And where did your ancestral monkeys come from?

Of course it is and Planet Lovetron to answer both of your questions.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on March 09, 2013, 03:44:59 AM
Plastic Ono Band is usually regarded as a minimally produced masterpiece, and I'm jumping on the overrating wagon as well. Here's my review...

Mother. Believe him or not, I see this as John crying his soul. The words are simple, direct, and yet cleverly used. I can't help but being moved by the ending with John shouting "don't gooo". Thanks God I had a loving father and a loving mother, so the spirit of the song may not touch me as close as others; but when I lost my father last year, I had that "don't gooo" feeling deep inside me. I miss him a lot.

Hold On. Somehow this song never reached me that much, but the message is nice and slightly more optimistic than most of the album.

I Found Out. Funky song with bitter lyrics. It still reflects how John was feeling at the time: you just can be helped by yourself.

Working Class Hero. The ultimate protest song. Those words don't need to be accompanied by more than a rustic acoustic guitar.

Isolation. Kind of a confessional song. It seems a pretty hard work trying to change the world by looking only inside yourself.

Remember. The message here seems to be "remember to forget". Good piano driving, though the melody is quite repetitive.

Love. A sweet ballad with nice and direct sentences. A masterpiece despite of (or because of) its simplicity.

Well Well Well. Back to the raw sound. I like the atmosphere of the song, but it's quite overlong and the lyrics are not that interesting.

Look At Me. Another simple ballad with simple lyrics. I really like it. The comparison to "Julia" is fair, but I don't care about that.

God. This song is the best photograph of John at the time the album was made. The first line "God is a concept by which be measure our pain" is interesting but not easy to be interpreted. To me it makes sense from the fact that love carries pain. Then the famous "I don't believe in my old idols" lines come (though surely Hitler wasn't his idol), because he just believed in himself (and Yoko), as his inner reality grew beyond the outer world. As a Christian, it's neither nice for me listening to John singing "I don't believe in Jesus", but this mention is no more than a proof of how obsessed he was with Christ during his whole life. But Jesus is not an idol, He's actually an inner reality, and when John stopped believing in himself in a hotel room in Tokio he opened the door to Jesus again, or at least he was moved to write this song:

John Lennon - You Saved My Soul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CmLTmPVCpM#ws)

My Mummy's Dead. Sounds like a home demo, and probably the record didn't need this, but it closes the album as a circle. This is certainly a concept album, as it has been said in this thread.
Title: Re: Microscope: Plastic Ono Band
Post by: Moogmodule on December 23, 2018, 08:08:13 AM
I’m watching a classic album documentary on Plastic Ono Band. At some points  Phil MacDonald, the engineer on the album, plays isolated tracks from some of the songs. He plays the end screams from Mother isolated. John makes such a chilling sound. Sends a shiver down you.