DM's Beatles forums
Solo forums => John Lennon => Topic started by: DarkSweetLady on April 08, 2009, 07:48:34 PM
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I'm not sure where to start, or how to phrase my "question". Because everytime I listen to one of John's profound songs, like 'God', and I think about it, and try to analyze it, I always get a headache.
What I think I'm trying to get at is I was lsitening to God just now and I realize it's so different from his opinions and emotions in Imagine. You have one John saying I'm a dreamer, you're a dreamer, let's be one. Then you have another John saying, I was this, but now I'm not, I respect you all, but go on with your life and let me get on with mine.
What are all your takes on this?
And one more question, why did John include the people and things he did in 'God'? Some are obvious, but others are not. What do you think?
*This thread is meant to cover a wide range of subjects so speak your mind, I want to hear all of your opinions.
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I'm not sure where to start, or how to phrase my "question". Because everytime I listen to one of John's profound songs, like 'God', and I think about it, and try to analyze it, I always get a headache.
What I think I'm trying to get at is I was lsitening to God just now and I realize it's so different from his opinions and emotions in Imagine. You have one John saying I'm a dreamer, you're a dreamer, let's be one. Then you have another John saying, I was this, but now I'm not, I respect you all, but go on with your life and let me get on with mine.
I think John was a very complicated man. I was listening to the "Imagine" album a while back and was struck by his contradictory attitudes in his lyrics. For example, you have the song "Imagine", which is about the world being "one" (as you say); it's like a plea for collective peace and understanding among humans. Then you have other songs like "Crippled Inside" and "How Do You Sleep?" which are biting and rather antagonistic--not exactly peaceful, you know? And it strikes me as amusing that so many people use "Imagine" to represent their idea of "John the peace-loving martyr" but they seem to overlook his more bitter and angrier works.
I'm glad John isn't easy to understand, though, and that he's not as one-dimensional as some people make him out to be. There are so many facets of his personality and songs, and it just makes him all the more interesting as a person.
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John WAS the most "complicated" one of the Beatles. That is why he has always been my favorite. He can go from one feeling to another with the "bat on an eye".
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I think sometimes John sang for who we wanted him to be and other times he sang for who he really was.
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^^ I like your answer tkitna :)
Yes, John was very complicating. These two songs show that perfectly. It is like, right when you think you know John, he does soemthing completely different. Never a dull moment with that man, probably why he was, and continues to be, so popular.
It is interesting to hear the things and people he lists and the end of 'God'. Anyones take on this?
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Maybe his contrary nature can be taken to show not that he was remarkably complicated but that he was remarkably normal. Lets face it, all of us are guilty of being contradictory in our thoughts and actions, constantly changing our opinions etc.
This is more obvious for John because he displayed his thoughts in such a public manner. Most artists don't bare their soul in this way and thus would appear to be less complicated. But then again maybe the very fact that John felt the need to express his thoughts so openly in its self shows how complicated he was?
Or how about McCartney writing endless love songs whilst being by all accounts a particularly cold and loveless man? Or Harrison preaching his world kharmic vision whilst bemoaning the taxman taking his worldly goods or making his viscious digs in Piggies.
Actually, I might be talking rubbish.
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See I've told you how confusing analyzing can become. ;)
Your bring up a very good point about John just being normal, but was displaying his feelings in a public way; thus making him appear more complicated.
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Or how about McCartney writing endless love songs whilst being by all accounts a particularly cold and loveless man? Or Harrison preaching his world kharmic vision whilst bemoaning the taxman taking his worldly goods or making his viscious digs in Piggies.
This is true. While I spmetimes get on john pretty hard, he at least didnt shy away from things he felt strongly about. Paul always had to be the medias sweetheart and lost his balls along the way.
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I agree with you...I guess one of them had to be.
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Poor Paul, poor Paul
he lost his balls . . . .
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I have never heard the song "God" unfortunately, but i think he was going through the whole
Hey I was a Beale but thats over now, this is me accept it and move on" then the same on Imagine, he was attacking Paul yes with How do you Seep, but later said it wasnt really about Paul it was about himself. Crippled Inside I love that song! because it is so tru, You could do all the things he said like Shine Your shoes and Wear Suit comb your hair and look quite cute hide your face behind a smile" it is all again about his life as a Beatle, how he was hidden by that whole Brand name given to him by the fans, that he was saying he ccant hide who hereally is anymore
So it isnt that its a contradiction to Imagine, because some of the most horrible people on the earth still want peace an security in their life, which is what Imagine really is about.
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as Richard Ashcroft sang "but i'm a million diffrent people from one day to the next" sums up John, him, me and and the vast majority of people who inhabit this world of ours.
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Maybe his contrary nature can be taken to show not that he was remarkably complicated but that he was remarkably normal. Lets face it, all of us are guilty of being contradictory in our thoughts and actions, constantly changing our opinions etc.
This is more obvious for John because he displayed his thoughts in such a public manner. Most artists don't bare their soul in this way and thus would appear to be less complicated. But then again maybe the very fact that John felt the need to express his thoughts so openly in its self shows how complicated he was?
Or how about McCartney writing endless love songs whilst being by all accounts a particularly cold and loveless man? Or Harrison preaching his world kharmic vision whilst bemoaning the taxman taking his worldly goods or making his viscious digs in Piggies.
Actually, I might be talking rubbish.
Wonderfully put, Kevin, IMO <Clapping hands icon here>. Though I think he was perhaps, in his mind, more tortured (and therefore(?) more Sybil-like) than most of us.
I think in the ways mentioned above he is the anti-Paul -very gruff, biting, hurtful on the outside, very vulnerable on the inside.
"God is a concept by which we measure our pain". One of the most powerful and thought provoking first lines of any song I have heard. I believe it may be worthy of discussion in an advanced seminary class!!
And then of course he goes off and records a song "God Bless Our Love", with no apparent irony in the least.
Awesome!
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post resurrection time, found this one on search after listening to God on drive to work this morning.
The main line, "God is a concept by which we measure our pain" just appeared to me in a different way in the context of all the world's hatred, including a good bit of religiously motivated hate.
I've never been a religious person, I have no problem with people that have deep faith either. To me, faith is exactly as John sang, a way to measure (for some) how you are doing. A barometer. A concept by which we measure our pain. Love that line.
By calling out all the names including Hitler, Jesus, Zimmerman, Elvis and of course the Beatles themselves, I believe he is just saying, we're all just people in the end, I think it is aligned well with the message in Imagine, just spun differently.
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I think he's getting across the sentiment of this quote: "You're just left with yourself all the time, whatever you do anyway. You've got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It's all down to you, mate."
His 'Serve Yourself' parody song also had this same message. You have to believe in yourself, and get down to business in the here and now. Nobody else will do it for you. Which is absolutely true and self empowering.
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To me the message in God is similar to that in Zen which likely came from Yoko's influence. The message is "Don't put all your faith in things which are just concepts i.e God, The Beatles, Elvis... Try to see the reality hiding behind the image".
Imagine has some similar themes because he is saying don't put all your faith in a concept of "heaven" or "hell" just live for today (very zen).
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To me the message in God is similar to that in Zen which likely came from Yoko's influence. The message is "Don't put all your faith in things which are just concepts i.e God, The Beatles, Elvis... Try to see the reality hiding behind the image".
Imagine has some similar themes because he is saying don't put all your faith in a concept of "heaven" or "hell" just live for today (very zen).
I think the message of "God" is "don't believe in anything but yourself"; that's why there's no hope and no dream.
"Imagine" is very different, a resurrection, where John is a dreamer again. "Imagine there's no heaven nor hell" does not necessarily mean "believe there's no heaven nor hell"; I think it means "do not think too much about a future prize or punishment, live for today so that heaven could be approached here on earth". Actually the message against hypocritical religiosity and in favor of sincere faith is very Christian, as Jesus has taught in the Sermon on the Mount.
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Maybe his contrary nature can be taken to show not that he was remarkably complicated but that he was remarkably normal. Lets face it, all of us are guilty of being contradictory in our thoughts and actions, constantly changing our opinions etc.
This is more obvious for John because he displayed his thoughts in such a public manner. Most artists don't bare their soul in this way and thus would appear to be less complicated. But then again maybe the very fact that John felt the need to express his thoughts so openly in its self shows how complicated he was?
Or how about McCartney writing endless love songs whilst being by all accounts a particularly cold and loveless man? Or Harrison preaching his world kharmic vision whilst bemoaning the taxman taking his worldly goods or making his viscious digs in Piggies.
Actually, I might be talking rubbish.
"Explaining meta physics to the nation, I wish he would explain his explanation " ;D