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Other forums => Current Affairs => Topic started by: Bill Harry on October 27, 2008, 01:30:26 PM

Title: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on October 27, 2008, 01:30:26 PM
I just wonder what other people make of this increasingly scary talk of the meltdown of the world's economic system. In Britain it's depressing, frightening stories every day. Taxpayers have had to pay to bail out the banks, but the banks are using a loophole to take people's homes from them if they default on even one thousand pounds. Gordon Brown won't take any notice of the economists who say it is wrong to buy our way out of it by massive borrowing to pay for works which may not be of any use, that the best way is to cut tax because that gives people more money to spend and the money stays within the system without leaving a massive borrowing debt. But every day is seems that money is no longer safe with prophets of doom talking as if we are going to have another Wall Street style crash. How did it all happen? People are afraid to spend, afraid to book holidays, all of which makes matters worse as companies then start to go under.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: harihead on October 27, 2008, 05:29:11 PM
Hi, Bill. I'm hearing the same news over here. Our $700 billion bailout was bungled, just as all the thousands of citizens who called in to oppose the bill had feared. Congress put through massive funding for these criminally liable (in my opinion) perpetrators of the crisis, and then put the same people in charge of distributing this money fairly. Big surprise when it didn't happen. The banks are hoarding the money to make themselves look less flimsy or are using it to acquire other banks, and are doing nothing to get credit flowing or save the people who are losing their homes.

I think in America we are finally mustering the political will to get rid of this "free market" fallacy that too many of us have been infatuated with. But the damage to our economic systems already appears to be done. I have a bet with my financial planner. He thinks we'll recover in 7 to 20 years (such good news for people in my age bracket!). I'm betting I'm going to be frying tofu on a stick over a garbage can fire, probably using dollar bills for fuel.

The problem is serious and increasingly appears to be real, rather than a media drama, of which we have far too many. The good news is that people can change things if they set about a good plan with a will. The trouble is that not everyone agrees on what constitutes a good plan. We definitely have learned a lot about economics since our first Great Depression, but whether we can put sound policies in place that are not corrupted by self-interest remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Kaleidoscope_Eyes on October 27, 2008, 10:52:29 PM
Yep the recession is everywhere, and I think it is mainly because banks and other financial instituitions "lend long and borrow short" as my lecturer said. They allow to borrow huge sums over a long period of time to too many people. At the end of the day you are waiting for your money. They never learn.

For NZ, a small country who depends on borrowing from the rest of the world... well we feeling the recession too. We have our election on the 8th and candidates always talk about how they can get us out of the Financial Crisis. One party said we must be build more, increase our assets... Not the right time, i'll say.

Quote from: 551
I have a bet with my financial planner. He thinks we'll recover in 7 to 20 years (such good news for people in my age bracket!).
7-20yrs... thats a big gap... 10yrs perhaps, but I think we willl recover even earlier.

What comes down, goes up again  :)

Title: Re: Recession
Post by: DaveRam on October 28, 2008, 09:11:22 AM
You can only spend what you have , this golden rule seems too have been forgotten over the past decade by Governments ,Bankers and individuals .
Good old fashioned budgeting is the new financial sexy (thumbsup)
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Kaleidoscope_Eyes on October 28, 2008, 10:18:24 PM
Quote from: 971
Good old fashioned budgeting is the new financial sexy (thumbsup)
Lovely word choice there, DaveRam!  ;D

You will be amazed though how many people critisize the budget. I had an entire 6 weeks of Limitations of the Budget. but I disagree with them!
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Geoff on October 29, 2008, 12:59:23 PM
This had to be next, and won't come as a surprise to anyone except President Bush:


Consumers Feel the Next Crisis: It
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Kevin on October 29, 2008, 01:46:27 PM
I think anyone over 40 has had a sneeking suspicion that things were too good to be true - everyone jetting about wherever and whenever, two car families, gadgets galore and endless ready meals.The bubble had to burst.
So far I've survived; The Space Race, Nuclear Armegeddon, Overpopulation, Drought, Acid Rain, Fuel Shock, AIDS, Bird Flu, Global Warming, a couple of recessions, The Millenium Bug, Meteorites, Obese Knife Wielding Hoodies.....probably forgot a few.
It's not keeping me up at night.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: aspinall_lover on October 29, 2008, 02:35:40 PM
I think things are gonna get worse than better.  We've tighten the belt around my house.  But I do say, I am one of the "lucky ones" and I'm not bragging:  Our home and land is paid for, no mortgage, our car and truck have been paid for for years.  Just a couple of credit cards.  We're just "tax and insurance" poor, and I do mean that.  And the government are taxing the crap out of people like us who are middle-class.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: An Apple Beatle on October 29, 2008, 03:04:44 PM
My income is from music......I've always lived on the breadline....no difference there then. lol

I am lucky to be mortgage free tho.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: aspinall_lover on October 29, 2008, 04:52:50 PM
^^^^^^Good for you, AppleBeatle..............my stuff may be paid for, but like I said, I'm still "tax and insurance poor".
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: harihead on October 30, 2008, 03:02:23 PM
Kevin, I love your list! I have quite a list myself. After becoming depressed for a couple of weeks, I decided to cheer up and enjoy the new Great Depression. It doesn't make any difference in the grand scheme, but I'm a lot happier!

Regarding the credit card crisis, I'm one of those people the credit card companies call "deadbeats". That means I pay off my balance every month, rather than paying them interest for all of my purchases. I think it's illuminating that the cc companies have such a disparaging name for people who are good credit risks. That means that their preferred clientele are spending money they don't have to, paying these companies for their gizmos and keeping the game going. Except reality called the game, and now we're all in trouble. As has been said earlier, was anyone really surprised?
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Geoff on November 03, 2008, 03:40:05 AM
Quote from: 551
As has been said earlier, was anyone really surprised?  


Maybe the guy on the right....


(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm317/geoffw_2008/sweetdreamsw.jpg)

Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Jane on November 03, 2008, 09:53:19 PM
Fortunately I don`t have to pay any credits or loans or mortgages. I am waiting for the prices to go down now to get a good deal. I think it`s time to buy rather than sell cause money can lose its value, as it usually happens during the crisis or recession. Better to invest it in something.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: DaveRam on January 23, 2009, 03:00:32 PM
It's offical the UK is now in a Recession , the economy as not been this bad since 1980 .
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: An Apple Beatle on January 23, 2009, 08:28:46 PM
UK wise, I blame the Tories in the 80's for a lot of our mess even though people are blaming Labour...Labour, (thought not completely blameless with their mis-spending) just inherited what was really UK's last financial attempt at survival in the 80's. Capitalism and mass privatisation. The bubble was always going to burst. Like Harihead's post above, I feel it's a shame for those of us that were sensible to be picking up the tab.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: HeatherBoo on January 24, 2009, 08:13:03 PM
It seems like this happens.  I mean times go great then they get bad and get great again.  It just sucks for people who were trying to retire anytime soon.  I know my grandfather lost ALOT of money in his stocks.  
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 25, 2009, 02:32:34 PM
Actually, the Tories left a fantastic economic heritage for Labour to take over. Labour then began to run down manufacturing and employ more than 600,000 extra civil servants. Although the private sector earns the money, the public sector began to get increased benefits, larger salaries, able to retire at 60 while the age of the private sector was 65, plus the public sector got better pension arrangements after Gordon Brown had virtually destroyed what was one of the best private pension systems in Europe. Under him the Council Tax doubled and numerous council tax officials were increasing their salaries to over a hundred thousand pounds a year. One in five of the work force was working in the public sector now. Gordon Brown sold huge British gold reserves at its lowest point in order to prop up the Euro, even though we weren't in it. If we had that gold now, since gold is at its highest point, things wouldn't be so bad.Tony Blair gave up a huge part of our contribution rebate from Europe (why are we such high payers when most of the other countries don't even contribute). They destroyed our borders and we became flooded with more than a million illegal immigrates who, although unlawful, can't really be sent back to their own country because of the Human Rights law. The pound is dropping because of the incredible amount of borrowing - nothing was put aside during the 'golden years' when Brown said boom and bust was over.
Frankly, I think 11 years of Labour has virtually destroyed the country and there is no going back. Look at the current farce where over 100 Albanian murderers and rapists, sought after by Interpol and the Albanian Government have been given British citizenship and the Government refuses to co-operate with Interpol or the request of the Albanian Government for us to send back the men who have committed crimes such as murder in their country. This is apart from the actual terrorists from Rwanda, Afghanistan and other countries who have been taken into Britain and given houses and benefits on the British taxpayer. These are actual known terrorists who have committed acts of terror in other countries.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: An Apple Beatle on January 25, 2009, 03:05:26 PM
Wow Bill...put into that perspective, makes me want to retract my earlier Tory slating. I had some idea about the public sector spending and increased immigration but never knew about the gold reserves or the criminal harbouring. It seemed to me that UK replaced it's lost exports of Steel and Coal with Defence contracts to countries we were pulling out of in the breakdown of the Empire.

I'm not fond on either Government really. Things are certainly a mess but Cameron does not seem a great alternative either right now. I'm hoping the country can start putting some REAL value back on things. It's the only positive left out of this economic and social trouble.

Apparently, the 'greenshoots' of recovery will appear when and if the American Housing market picks back up. Lets hope Obama steers it the right way.

Thanks for the extra insight. :)
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: DaveRam on January 25, 2009, 05:06:36 PM
I think Gordon Brown will come to regret saying he had abolished "Boom and Bust" in the UK .
I thought he was doing quite well with the economy for a  few years , i think he did take his eye off the ball about 18 month ago when he was clearly pre-occupied with plotting to get rid of Tony Blair ?
A good 60% of this is out of our control , but i think Labour have made some bad policy decisions 2p off VAT is a big mistake , better to spend that money on training for new skills.
What i don't want to happen is another 17 years of Tory rule , but i fear 2009 is feeling like 1979 and i can see David Cameron been the next UK Prime Minister ?
Just think Labour need to go back to the drawing board and reconnect with the ordinary man women and child in the street , they've forgotten there roots ?
I see Ken Clarke is back on the Tory front bench , very brave move by David Cameron bringing Ken back indicates to me he's serious about wanting to be the next PM ?
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 25, 2009, 06:08:52 PM
There are a number of things about the Labour government which people aren't generally aware of. England and Wales are the only two places on Earth which have the feudal leasehold system. The only country outside of Britain which had it was Hawaii, who then got rid of it years ago. This is a system in which you can buy a house, but it still belongs to someone who just owns the ground on which it is built. They can take the property from you if you get behind on service charges - and you would still have to pay the mortgage even if you had lost the property. The longer you have it, the less time is left on your lease and the price of the property reduces as long as you live in it. The freeholders can charge all sorts of service charge costs, can intimidate residents with threats of county court (Rachman used dogs and bully boys, freeholders use solicitors and courts). It is a completely unjust and unfair system. Scotland got rid of it completely four years ago. I wrote to Gordon Brown because Labour promised to end it when they first got into power 11 years ago, but under Labour it has actually increased and they have brought in laws more in favour of the big landowners which makes it even more difficult for leaseholders. Gordon Brown's own constituents in Scotland no longer have the leasehold system, but his representative uwrote back to me saying the Government have no intention of ending this feudal system, despite a huge petition with hundreds of thosands of names, which was one of the top ten petitions sent to Downing Street last year asking for this unfair system to be ended, as it has ended in Scotland.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: adamzero on January 26, 2009, 03:14:22 AM
Very interesting, Bill.   I'm in the US and am familiar with ground leases (don't know how they differ from the lease-holding system in the UK).  I thought they still had ground lease laws in Hawaii (to keep property in native Hawaiian's hands).  The US practice does seem kinda strange, but I know that the property owner does maintain some liabilities that don't get foisted onto the lessee.  Also a good friend of mine was able to maintain mineral/oil rights to property he sold in Texas.  

I guess the history of feudalism and the social hierarchy in the UK makes the system far less dynamic.  

I've never understood condos.  Why would you not want to buy the land your "home" sits on?  

One thing to ponder in the coming Depression--with cash-strapped nation-states get to the point of "nationalizing" property with ground leases (the so-called "death tax" in the US has us half the way there).  Instead of the King holding the land, we'll all owe the Federal Reserve.  
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 26, 2009, 10:02:56 AM
There are all kings of unfair practices in English leasehold law (I don't say British because, of course, Scotland - and our own Prime Minister's constituents -has been freed of it).For instance, I have been paying 'buildings insurance' on this property since 1970. But I am not allowed to pay an insurance company direct. The freeholder tells me what I have to pay each year and I have to pay him. I don't even know what I'm insured for. He charges more me more than it would cost me to get the insurance direct (I contacted several insurance companies over the years and each time they offered me buildings insurance at a fraction of what I have to pay the freeholder), plus I get no benefits, such as no claim bonuses - having never claimed in 38 years and so on. The leasehold law won't allow me the freedom of getting my own qotes, getting buildings insurance from an insurance company - who would also give me all the insurance documentation in my name. If something happened to the property it would be the freeholder who gets the insurance money, even though I am the only one paying it. Would you cnsider that just?
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Kevin on January 26, 2009, 10:45:19 AM
I'm with you Bill and agree with Dave. I abhor the left. All style and no substance.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: adamzero on January 26, 2009, 07:45:05 PM
Bill, sounds like you guys need to finish that revolution you started in the 1640s.  But at least I guess that means you guys aren't inundated with Geico and Progressive commercials.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 27, 2009, 10:27:58 AM
I remember around 1962 there was the Ian Hendry film 'Live Now - Pay Later' which indicated the trend to buy what you wanted on credit and pay back, with interest, over a period of time. Prior to that people lived within their means. It's going to have to go back to that. It won't cripple capitalism, just the people on ridiculous six figure yearly incomes. The Governments must also do the same and live within their means, only borrowing what they can afford. Unfortunately, Britain is borrowing far too much unecessarily and decades of children and grandchildren will have to pay for it. Going back to people living within their means will be good for our planet as it will help to slow down the 'waste' culture. Manufacturers should start building things that last rather than washing machines, dishwashers, cookers etc with built in obsolecence. I remember this waq predicted in the early Sixties with Vance Packard's book 'The Waste Makers.'

At the moment too much food is wasted in the Western world, there is too much packaging, too much wastage of paper and card which is destroying the rain forests. People would get healthier and live much longer lives if they didn't stuff themselves with more food than necessary. It was discovered that the healthiest time ever in Britain, when people were far healthier than at any time before or since, was just after the Second World War when there was rationing in Britain.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Ged on January 27, 2009, 11:28:08 AM
Hello Bill. Coming from Liverpool (though I don't know if you lived here in the 1980s) you must know that Thatcher's policies closed down countless manufacturing and high employers such as Tate and Lyles, Crawfords - United biscuits, Meccano, British-American tobacco etc and of course the coal mines that some are now advocating re-opening to fuel our own nuclear power stations instead of relying on the Russians controlling fuel prices and wars in the desert to ensure oil is plentiful for the West. At the time Thatcher came to power in 1979 North Sea oil was just coming fully on tap. This was the greatest legacy the country had ever had. Instead of using it to prop up and modernise industries, create new industries, promote education and training, etc, to catapult the country forwards, they used it for unemployment benefits because their half-baked economic theories failed. North Sea oil revenues were squandered. We will also remember she introduced disability living allowance to massage the unemployment figures which were rocketing, now we can't get these people off DLA. You might remember that the award winning 'Boys from the blackstuff' was made during this depressing time and only the Falklands war saved Thatcher for another term then things picked up until the poll tax issue saw her off.

By the way, I agree with everything you say about new labour whom are just like the old tories, it's just that deep down (with their greedy hiding of personal expenses for instance), none of them can be trusted, they're all in it for what they can get out of it.

As for your personal problems regarding your buildings insurance etc, whilst terrible, this was surely known and signed for at the time - were you badly advised? Just like living on a caravan site, you might own the box your living in but the site can put the eminities and utilities fees up at will. For bad land laws see the rest of Europe too - there's enough programmes on Sky about them such as the land grab in Spain where the government can just come along and say we're building a highway through your frint garden and not only that, you're paying for it too. Or in Cyprus where holiday homes were sold to Brits only for returning Greeks and Turks coming back after beingafter the war are now laying claim to the land - possibly rightly after they turfed out off it.

Most of our laws are pretty cosher, maybe not the fact that Prince Charles is the Duchy of Cornwall so all land left intestate (ie. no will) goes to him - that needs sorting out. As for your thread on the criminals and immigration which is another matter - from what i've read, you're spot on, you only have to watch crimewatch.  
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 27, 2009, 12:07:12 PM
Yes, anyone who signs a lease is aware of the problems as it's a feudal system, but it's either having to accept them or not being able to buy the house you want to live in. Leasehold has increased under Labour, a Government who promised to get rid of all the unfair clauses in the system when they first came into power - the opposite has happened.

I also think there are other things the Tories did that crippled the country - nationalising essential things such as utilities. Water, Gas and electricity should remain in the control of the country, not be sold to foreign countries. The Germans bought Thames Water, let all the pipes rot until there was more water being wasted in leaks than being used, sold vital reservoirs to developers, then sold the company to an Australian with no experience in the water industry, making billions of pounds in profit in the process. The Tories messed up the railways. Now we pay these private companies more in subsidies than we did when the railways belonged to the nation. The same with the bus system. The directors of Stagecoach become multi-millionaires with every move councils make. We also pay these private companies more to run the buses than when the councils ran them.

Let's face it, the country is in a mess and both Tories and Labour have been responsible over the years. There are genuine MPs, particularly in Liverpool like Peter Kilfoyle and Louise Ellman who fight for people's rights, but there are too many MPs who have never done anything but come out of university and enter politics - I also feel that too many of them have been lawyers and barristers who live in a caccooned world away from real life.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Swine on January 27, 2009, 12:33:00 PM
i was offered german gas the other day. how about that?
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 27, 2009, 01:58:08 PM
What we should do is to begin manufacturing again but in a different way. Make things last. This would save the worlds resources of metals, trees etc. If manufacturers made a cooker that would last, a dishwasher that would last etc, then that would help the poor, pensioners, people on low incomes. It would save earth's precious minerals. If manufacturers made things to last, they could get orders internationally. At the moment, when our dishwasher doesn't work, we have to pay a man one hundred pounds just to turn up at the door before he does any work. He tells us that these dishwashers only really last for four years.

At the moment manufacturers use built in obsolescence. Here is what wickipedia says about that:

Planned obsolescence (also built-in obsolescence[1] in the United Kingdom) is the process of a product becoming obsolete and/or non-functional after a certain period or amount of use in a way that is planned or designed by the manufacturer.[1] Planned obsolescence has potential benefits for a producer because the product fails and the consumer is under pressure to purchase again, whether from the same manufacturer (a replacement part or a newer model), or from a competitor which might also rely on planned obsolescence.[1] The purpose of planned obsolescence is to hide the real cost per use from the consumer, and charge a higher price than they would otherwise be willing to pay (or would be unwilling to spend all at once).

For an industry, planned obsolescence stimulates demand by encouraging purchasers to buy again sooner if they still want a functioning product. Built-in obsolescence is in many different products, from vehicles to light bulbs, from buildings to software. There is, however, the potential backlash of consumers who learn that the manufacturer invested money to make the product obsolete faster; such consumers might turn to a producer, if any, which offers a more durable alternative.

Planned obsolescence was first developed in the 1920s and 1930s when mass production had opened every minute aspect of the production process to exacting analysis.

Estimates of planned obsolescence can influence a company's decisions about product engineering. Therefore the company can use the least expensive components that satisfy product lifetime projections. Such decisions are part of a broader discipline known as value engineering.

The use of planned obsolescence is not always easy to pinpoint, and it is complicated by related problems, such as competing technologies or creeping featurism which expands functionality in newer product versions.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: aspinall_lover on January 27, 2009, 04:30:50 PM
This is going to be an awfully hard year for the working person in this country, and I guess all around the world.  The US are having all kinds of major layoffs with thousands and thousands of people losing their jobs.  And it's fixing to hit close to home to us today.
My husband goes back to work today.  His company is calling in all the employees to a "plant-wide meeting" at two this afternoon.  Not good.  He's already had his hours cut back.  He works 4-10hr days, then cut back to 4-9's, now 4-8's.  What's gonna happen.  Oh, he does stay sometimes 10 hours, but the bosses always put them on "bullcrap" detail.  He's been with the company over 24 years.  God, I'm sitting on pins and needles worrying what to make of all of this.  I'll keep you people posted on what goes down this afternoon............
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: BlueMeanie on January 27, 2009, 04:42:35 PM
Merged 'Hard Times' with 'Recession'.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: aspinall_lover on January 27, 2009, 05:16:39 PM
^^^^^Sounds good BlueMeanie.  Thanks!!!!
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Wordno on January 27, 2009, 05:43:31 PM
I think it's the media's fault as to why the economy is worsening. Every single day is the same thing on the news. "The economy is worsening! Are safe?" "This is the worst time in 30 years. Save your money! You need to!". Its absolutely ridiculous how people are eating this crap right up and buying absolutely nothing. The economy is in bad shape but if people continue to not buy anything then the economy will worsen because nobody is making any money.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 27, 2009, 07:21:09 PM
So many people I know have been caught up in this terrible situation and it's heartbreaking. Another aspect is people with small companies who find that the bigger companies they have been supplying go into liquidation. The small company then can't pay its debts and it goes on. There is lots of money owing. What I can't understand here is the amount that the big banks are writing off. They are pursuing little people and repossessing their houses because they can't keep up the mortgage because they have lost their jobs, yet they scrub a two and a half billion pound loan to a Russian billionaire who has a house in London worth thirty two million. The British Government, despite this terrible situation have brought in a law giving more powers to bailiffs - this time they can come into your home with less legal rights and actually break in if you try to prevent them, plus they can take your possessions without having necessary court documentation
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: aspinall_lover on January 27, 2009, 09:04:43 PM
Well...............Jeff came in from work this afternoon.  The company had all the "brass" in from headquarters.  The warehouse after being opened for nearly 30 years, is shutting it's doors come April 1.  Jeff's without a job.  Been there for nearly 25 years.  It's not a recession we're in..........it's a "depression"..............
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: DoBotherMe on January 27, 2009, 09:10:12 PM
Oh, I'm so sorry. I'll keep you in my thoughts. Dana ; )
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Jane on January 27, 2009, 09:27:02 PM
Aspie, dear, let`s hope for the better. I am also with you in my thoughts.
The crisis hasn`t hit hard here but they say it`ll happen later in the year.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: aspinall_lover on January 27, 2009, 10:23:14 PM
Here's the news announcement..........this is where my husband "worked"..........

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/target-corporation-announces-workforce/298353
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: DaveRam on January 28, 2009, 12:14:58 AM
Quote from: 1255
Here's the news announcement..........this is where my husband "worked"..........

[url]http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/target-corporation-announces-workforce/298353[/url]


Sorry to hear about your husbands job , i read the article , when they use words like elimination it sounds so cold .

Title: Re: Recession
Post by: HeatherBoo on January 28, 2009, 02:06:58 AM
Oh Aspie, I am so sorry to hear this.  I complain and whine because they are cutting us back, I should just be grateful I still have my job.  

Tell your hubby to start looking now, I can't imagaine working one place for so long.  Getting a new job is like starting all over.  But just hold out hope and be strong, I will pray for your family.  
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: aspinall_lover on January 28, 2009, 02:38:17 AM
Thanks everyone!!! It's gonna be hard........but.........we have our house paid for and our truck and car are paid for.  So that's a big help......but...we've got to pay utilities, taxes and insurance on the house.  Not to mention a couple of credit cards.  It's gonna be hard, but we'll make it.  Thanks again everyone........it's hard and tuff times.........
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: aspinall_lover on January 28, 2009, 02:40:30 AM
.............however.............I am still keeping my internet service and cable TV.  I will do "with out" other things, but I've GOT to have these..........
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bobber on January 28, 2009, 08:40:08 AM
That's bad news Aspie. Good luck to you.

Now, the situation over here is not really improving. A lot of people lose their jobs because banks are afraid to give credits. Don't blame the media (I work there!), blame the financial system instead.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 28, 2009, 09:57:58 AM
I don
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Penny Lane on January 28, 2009, 10:39:09 AM
^  That is such a tragic and horrible story.  Last year I heard about something similar, with a man killing his wife, mother-in-law, children, and then himself due to financial difficulties. :'(

Aspie, I'm really sorry to hear about your husband's job.  I hope you guys will pull through.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: aspinall_lover on January 28, 2009, 11:29:44 AM
Thanks again everyone.  We will be strong.  And I just found out, too, that an old friend of mine that works for Target headquarters in the computer department lost his job after over 26 years!!!!  This sucks!!!!
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Ged on January 28, 2009, 12:37:15 PM
What must a persons mind be going through to do such a deed to his family thinking there is no way forward. Shocking but perhaps a look back into a society which existed with large families in old unsanitary courts, if only the people back then could see what even the poorest of us have now, they would surely think this is pure luxury.

As for governments messing things up and is it successive governments, none are better than the rest.

How can mortgage/insurance companies have a get out clause that your endowment policy may not reach its full value and the risk they undertake buying stocks and shares can go down as well as up. We all pay the first X number of years in management fees, that is, the insurance company having a person who is supposed to manage your account daily and move the money you pay in to the best growth possible yet we all seem to be getting amber or red light letters telling us the policies we hold may not/will probably not reach the desired amount to pay off our mortgages - money fro old rope for these companies who lend our money out to borrowers are higher interest rates - they should never be in a deficite position.

The government here are bringing in legislation next year that means anyone with a personal pension who could have got it at age 50 (which I am in 4 years) will not now be able to get it until aged 55. The idea is to keep people needing to work for longer as we're all living longer. Well, my pension certainly wasn't enough to mean I could retire anyway so it's of no consequence to me in that way but now means i'll have to wait longer but who is to say that in 5 years time they won't bring in legislation moving the age at which I can get it to 60 or 65 like the state pension.

I feel I was mis-sold this policy as I only took it on under those conditions and budgeted for the payout but as it's the government moving the goalposts and not a private insurance company, the ombudsman doesn't want to know so it seems they can do what they want when they want but they won't be getting my or my family's vote in future.

Only the rich get richer here for a fact. 90% of Britain's wealth is distributed amongst only 10% of its population.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 28, 2009, 07:24:24 PM
When Gordon Brown was Chancellor he ripped the private pension scheme apart, grabbing as much tax as he could. as a result, what was regarded as one of the best private pension systems in Europe was destroyed. As a result, my private pension is only worth half of what it would have been.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: adamzero on January 28, 2009, 10:23:19 PM
So sorry to hear about your husband's job loss, A-L.   What sucks about this situation is that seniority and experience work against you in this market instead of in your favor.  It shows how bare-knuckled capitalism as practiced today is totally at odds with supposed "family values"  or "small town community values."

Can't help but thinking about Bob Dylan's "Slow Train":

"All that foreign oil controlling American soil,
Look around you, it's just bound to make you embarrassed.
Sheiks walkin' around like kings, wearing fancy jewels and nose rings,
Deciding America's future from Amsterdam and to Paris
And there's a slow, slow train comin' up around the bend."

It ain't coming round the bend any more, it's already here.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: DaveRam on January 29, 2009, 12:01:59 AM
Said on the news tonight 50 million jobs could go this year around the world , thats mind-boggling ?
The IMF said today the UK economy will be hit the hardest of the industrilsed nations , due to our big financial sector.
That twit PM Gordon Brown said we were best placed to ride out the worst effects of the down turn .
What planet are these people on .
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Penny Lane on January 29, 2009, 12:37:06 AM
Today I read that the US Postal Service may cut mail delivery from six days a week to five, due to economic problems.

http://www.suntimes.com/business/1402300,w-postal-service-mail-cutback012809.article
(Chicago Sun-Times)
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 29, 2009, 02:17:24 AM
The British postal service is also downsizing and also may be split. The service has been disgracefully let down over the years and the local post offices almost destroyed. Why did the labour government move their payments to pensioners and others away from the post offices and into banks. The local post offices were a comfort to people and pensioners had problems with banks, some didn't even have accounts, others didn't have banks in their neighbourhoods. So the post office sector was literally vandalised. It was nothing to do with economy, but it seems that the labour government seemed to be the party supporting the very rich - that is why they wouldn't change leasehold laws in case it upset the lobbyists of the big landowners, they taxed the hell out of people on low incomes and let the very rich get away with paying very little. I don't know why people talk about the Tories as 'toffs', while labour has acted disgracefully in office. Look how the speaker has had his nose in the trough - just like the Labour lords. The Tory government was scuttled because of 'sleaze', but there has been far more sleaze associated with the current government.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Joost on January 29, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
I think one of the worst things of all this is that there are a lot of companies that wanted to lay off people or cut on their salaries for years and have now found an excuse to do so... Sure there are a lot of companies that really are in deep trouble, but I believe there are also a lot of companies that just take advantage of this crisis to screw their personnel...
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 29, 2009, 11:14:57 AM
One thing I found annoying is that companies shut down lots of the call centres in Britain and relocated to India. When I began to contact either my bank or AOL or other organisations, I was put through to India. Not only did I have trouble understanding what was said, but I was given wrong advice, many times the people on the other side of the phone couldn't understand me, I had to spell things out at length and at one point, because I was given wrong information, I lost money from my account. What burned me was that they didn't relocate to India to make the business more efficient or easier for the client, it was pure greed because they didn't want to pay a reasonable rate to the staff at British call centres. I also must admit that the current automatic message services on companies is maddening. For two weeks I have been trying to get through to a certain company, but the automatic message system goes on for ages and doesn't include the questions I want to ask. It's almost impossible to get a human to answer you. When I ask for a customer services manager, the automatic voice tells me to hang on sometimes for ten or fifteen minutes, then invariably cuts me off.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Penny Lane on January 29, 2009, 02:36:57 PM
Quote from: 1062
One thing I found annoying is that companies shut down lots of the call centres in Britain and relocated to India.

The same thing has happened in America as well.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Penny Lane on January 29, 2009, 02:38:21 PM
Quote from: 1062
The British postal service is also downsizing and also may be split. The service has been disgracefully let down over the years and the local post offices almost destroyed.

Just out of curiosity, how many days a week do you get mail in Britain?  Five or six?
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Ged on January 29, 2009, 04:38:20 PM
Used to be 6 times a week twice a day, 1st class approx 8am if posted before noon the day before then a noon 2nd class service where the postage stamp was a little cheaper. Lucky to get 1 a day now by 10am and lucky to get any on a saturday too.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 29, 2009, 08:15:16 PM
Our post disappears all the time. CDs, books sometimes never arrive. The post sometimes doesn't get delivered until the afternoon. When our postman's on holiday our post seems to disappear. We have found our post in a dustbin in the street, lying in the gutter and simply missing. The post office has employed all sorts of people, some who can't even speak the language, I think because they pay lower wages. There are so many temporary people. The newspapers have been full of stories of police going into postmen's houses and finding thousands of letters and parcels. The Royal Mail has simply deteriorated. - but the man in charge is paid a few million quid a year - and gets bonuses despite the bad performance and a new assistant has just been hired for him who only works two days a week and is paid two hundred thousand pounds a year.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on January 30, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Manufacturing industry in Britain has been whittled down and while the public sector, which generates the income for the country has shrunk, Labour has employed an ever-increasing army of bureaucrats and non-jobs
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: adamzero on February 01, 2009, 10:45:50 PM
Quango.  That's a new word for me.  Quasi non-governmental organization.  

First, The Quango.  Then, Revenge of the Quangos.  Or is it Quangoes?  

Here a quango, there a quango . . .

And for a little Latin flavor, Quango . . . a-go-go
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: DaveRam on February 01, 2009, 10:51:02 PM
Quote from: 9
Quango.  That's a new word for me.  Quasi non-governmental organization.  

First, The Quango.  Then, Revenge of the Quangos.  Or is it Quangoes?  

Here a quango, there a quango . . .

And for a little Latin flavor, Quango . . . a-go-go

LOL we have thousands of them in the UK mostly they count paper clips or tick boxes

(wink1)
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on February 02, 2009, 01:12:05 AM
It's the quangos who should go go!
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: adamzero on February 02, 2009, 11:48:04 PM
Maybe we need to start a quango to count how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.

As I see it, this will have to be a multinational approach.  Some hole-counters on the ground.  And some number crunchers (and some serious statistical modeling abroad).

I'm American, but quasi-governmental sounds good to me.  Do they pay in pounds, euros or quango-dollars?  

If this works, then we can turn our attention to the Number 9.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bill Harry on February 03, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
British quangos spend nearly two billion pounds a year of taxpayers money on spin doctors to extol their useless existence.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: adamzero on February 04, 2009, 12:35:41 AM
Pounds, eh.  Pounds-sterling, no less?  Hmmm.  No quango-dollars.  The real thing.  Two billion.  I think I could come up with several bus "adverts" (for a couple million pounds) that could justify the useless existence of the average Brit.

How about this: "We're not Scotland, yet!"

or "p*ss off Colonel Sanders, we INVENTED fish and chips!"

"They'll have to pry the lease-hold from my cold dead hands before I ever join the EU!"

"Our Royal Family may have less brains than a bunch of sea turtles, but hey, the sea turtle is a majestic beast."

"We gave the world Malthus, Darwin and (as visitor) Marx--we've been f#@cking with the world's head for almost four centuries!"

"Our actors can outact any actors in the world.  And they do American accents better than Americans!"

"Our TV comes up with the best shows that Hollywood can steal or buy."
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Kaleidoscope_Eyes on February 04, 2009, 10:11:17 AM
You know all this talk about the recession... I mean I know it is there, but thankfully I dont feel it. I mean, I work, people ask me to do extra shifts, I get money... money and work life is good. Is there anyone else who isnt effected much by the recession?
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: pc31 on February 15, 2009, 09:51:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGDT7wKvdRk&feature=PlayList&p=4A1B9F4F7ECE5F6C&index=7&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: DaveRam on February 16, 2009, 12:03:05 AM
My brother lost his job yesterday the pub where he worked as a chef as closed , he had been their twelve year .
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: DaveRam on March 14, 2009, 01:45:49 PM
Great song , very bad diagnosis

pdRXK9P1IiA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdRXK9P1IiA)
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: pc31 on March 21, 2009, 03:01:19 PM
things do seem to be getting better but only in small cases not widespread....
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bobber on April 28, 2009, 12:14:54 PM
We are not alone. I read that Paul McCartney's fortune has shrinked with 12%.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: An Apple Beatle on April 28, 2009, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: 63
We are not alone. I read that Paul McCartney's fortune has shrinked with 12%.

Yep i read this somewhere. What was interesting was they stated Robbie Williams and Elton John's fortunes in the article but not Macca's.
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Bobber on April 28, 2009, 12:21:03 PM
Elton John -25% (from 344,8 USD to 256,8 USD)
Paul McCartney -12% (now 646,4 USD)
Mick Jagger -16% (now 278,8 USD)
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Applegirl on July 12, 2009, 07:11:09 PM
I work in a supermarket,at the end of the month people can't have money,but our great Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi (I live in Italy) says that doesn't exist any recession,everything is ok...so our government doesn't make anything...really makes me sick..
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Kaleidoscope_Eyes on July 24, 2009, 04:18:15 AM
Supermarkets (which is where I work) are slightly on the winning side of a recession because people need to buy food all the time regardless of the state the economy is in. I mean, naturally, the recession hit different countries in different degrees, but I guess for small NZ , we are lucky, since it didnt hit us that badly, and the good news for me is that I  am getting a pay rise next month! (not by much, but you know, every cent counts!)
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Dmitry on October 19, 2010, 07:29:48 AM
Winds of Change...Economic Collapse... Be Prepared (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1H3wcklHxE#)
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Taxgirl on October 19, 2010, 01:16:55 PM
Supermarkets (which is where I work) are slightly on the winning side of a recession because people need to buy food all the time regardless of the state the economy is in. I mean, naturally, the recession hit different countries in different degrees, but I guess for small NZ , we are lucky, since it didnt hit us that badly, and the good news for me is that I  am getting a pay rise next month! (not by much, but you know, every cent counts!)

I wanna move to NZ...  :D :-* I promise I'll be a good citizen who'll be political correct and work hard.  :P I've been looking for a good job here in Hungary for 4 month now...  :-\
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Hello Goodbye on October 19, 2010, 06:57:02 PM
I wanna move to NZ...  :D :-* I promise I'll be a good citizen who'll be political correct and work hard.  :P I've been looking for a good job here in Hungary for 4 month now...  :-\

New Zealand is in the Southern Hemisphere.  Won't the blood rush to your head?


;)
Title: Re: Recession
Post by: Quarrygirl on October 25, 2010, 08:53:19 PM
I work for a financial services company and I'm waiting to hear what the future of my department is. We should be ok, but I'd be lying if I said my health wasn't being affected by all the scenarios running through my mind. All I can do is cross my fingers that I'll be ok!