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Beatles forums => Albums => Topic started by: Mellotroniac on May 29, 2008, 04:30:38 AM

Title: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Mellotroniac on May 29, 2008, 04:30:38 AM
I've seen heated debate between people on whether MMT was a true "Album" or just and EP of singles.
Was it considered an LP in America and just a EP in the UK? Does the new material constitute it as an
album, or just singles new and old collected on an EP? Their is a concept to MMT, not just a rushed release
of songs. I've read in some books as it being just and EP (Extended Play) and others an LP. MMT seems included in many peoples Album canon. It does with me too. Yet some discard it as an lousy Acid induced effort not worth placing in The Beatles line of Albums, they go straight from Pepper to The White Album. People hate on the film as well, but it grows on you with time, just think of it as alot of music videos than a Film Film. If you hate the MMT Movie then go see Daft Punk's Electroma, it makes MMT look like Dr. Zhivago or My Fair Lady.
(I DO LOVE DAFT PUNK & ELECTROMA!) So, what's the consensus, Album Worthy LP or just an alright EP?
My vote goes for LP.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Klang on May 29, 2008, 04:45:20 AM
I was a teen when 'MMT' was released, and I recall my peers and myself regarding it as pretty much what it was, the soundtrack album to a TV film, with additional tracks included to fill it out. Simplistic sounding, I know, but just reporting on how it was for me personally. Could've been different for others, of course.

That being said, I have to admit that I spent as many enjoyable hours listening to it as I have most other Beatles LPs. It's part of the legacy, for better or worse.

 :)
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: BlueMeanie on May 29, 2008, 09:55:52 AM
We've had this conversation several times in the past. As far as I'm concerned, MMT was a double EP, not an album. It was released in the US without The Beatles consent, and even included songs that were not in the film. The only reason it was put out as an album was because there wasn't really much of a market for EP's in America. I'd rather listen to the 'Cinelogue V' bootleg of the entire soundtrack. That way, you get 'Jessie's Dream', 'Shirley's Wild Accordion', and 'She Loves You' played on a barrel organ!
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Geoff on May 29, 2008, 12:28:54 PM
The US album was a patch work that came out because Capitol didn't want to release EP's, a format that was used little if at all over here at that time (1967). The US album is a convenient collection of The Beatles non-Pepper 1967 releases, but the singles on side 2 have nothing to do with MMT and are best heard separately, and the same is true for the MMT material itself.

And for crying out loud Apple, put Magical Mystery Tour and Let It Be out on DVD. You guys are making easy decisions look hard.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: harihead on May 29, 2008, 03:32:52 PM
Quote from: 1161
And for crying out loud Apple, put Magical Mystery Tour and Let It Be out on DVD. You guys are making easy decisions look hard.
I suspect there's still some resistance from the Beatles or their heirs for these programs not to be released. Am I wrong? Can Apple release them  anyway without Beatle consent?

Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: madman on May 29, 2008, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: 551
I suspect there's still some resistance from the Beatles or their heirs for these programs not to be released. Am I wrong? Can Apple release them  anyway without Beatle consent?

MMT they might be able to, since it's an Apple film.  But Let It Be is a United Artists movie, I believe, so I would imagine it's up to UA to decide if it should come out.

Personally, I don't think either one will ever be released legitimately, or if they are it won't be for a long time.  Neither film plays to the Beatle "myth" of happy go-lucky mop tops; Let It Be is so depressing (except for the rooftop concert); it basically shows four guys who are tired and don't want to be together anymore.  In of itself that doesn't make for a bad movie, but combine that with poor sound, grainy film and questionable editing and you've pretty much punctured the Fab Four myth that Capitol/Apple loves to push.  

As for MMT, well, there's another thread on whether that's good or bad (I am definitely of the latter opinion!) but I can't see Macca or Ringo saying "Sure, let it out."
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: ShesCominDownFastYesSheIs on May 29, 2008, 08:45:08 PM
LP all the way!

I understand everyone who says it's meant to have only the six film songs and "that's the way the Beatles wanted it." but come on, do you really want to take the CD out after 6 songs and switch to another or do you want to listen to 5 more songs?

my only complaint is that I would have liked Strawberry Fields to open side two instead of Hello Goodbye.

also, I wish the album version of the title track had John's "When a man buys a ticket......" stuff during the bridge.

and while I'm at it, I've always thought that a crossfade between Flying and Blue Jay Way would have been cool. the organs at the end of the Flying tapeloops seem as if they would flow seamlessly into the opening organ of Blue Jay Way
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: BlueMeanie on May 30, 2008, 12:34:23 AM
Quote from: 532
my only complaint is that I would have liked Strawberry Fields to open side two instead of Hello Goodbye.

Well, at least HG was in the movie.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Mellotroniac on May 30, 2008, 03:27:07 AM
Good point on the crossfade, I like that idea.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Geoff on May 30, 2008, 09:30:31 AM
Quote from: 1330
Personally, I don't think either one will ever be released legitimately, or if they are it won't be for a long time.  Neither film plays to the Beatle "myth" of happy go-lucky mop tops; Let It Be is so depressing (except for the rooftop concert); it basically shows four guys who are tired and don't want to be together anymore.  In of itself that doesn't make for a bad movie, but combine that with poor sound, grainy film and questionable editing and you've pretty much punctured the Fab Four myth that Capitol/Apple loves to push.  

This is quite possibly correct, but both films have been released on video in the past, so objections by the band, if that is in fact the problem, haven't always been insurmountable. I suspect the real problem is the same one that delayed the release of Help! on DVD until late last year and continues to hold up the re-release of The Beatles' catalog. What that is exactly I'm not sure; but getting the ex-Beatles or their estates to agree to a project and clearing legal rights (or outstanding lawsuits) with EMI and other stakeholders is part of it, though.  :)

Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: DaveRam on May 30, 2008, 10:14:50 AM
 Magical Mystery Tour (Capitol Import )did chart on the UK album chart in 1968 it reached  #31 for a total of two weeks . It also charted as a (re - issue Parlophone ) album for One week in 1987 it reached # 52 , doe's the latter charting of Magical Mystery Tour  make it an official Beatles album ?
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: madman on May 30, 2008, 10:32:43 AM
Quote from: 1161

This is quite possibly correct, but both films have been released on video in the past, so objections by the band, if that is in fact the problem, haven't always been insurmountable. I suspect the real problem is the same one that delayed the release of Help! on DVD until late last year and continues to hold up the re-release of The Beatles' catalog. What that is exactly I'm not sure; but getting the ex-Beatles or their estates to agree to a project and clearing legal rights (or outstanding lawsuits) with EMI and other stakeholders is part of it, though.  :)


Duh! I forgot about that!

It would be interesting to know exactly what keeps delaying new Beatle projects, though.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Geoff on May 30, 2008, 10:51:17 AM
Quote from: 1330
It would be interesting to know exactly what keeps delaying new Beatle projects, though.

I seem to recall Paul or somebody saying that "everybody has to agree" to a new project or something to that effect around the time The Beatles finally settled the bulk of their outstanding lawsuits with EMI. This would have been around 1988-1990 or so, I think. He was talking about new albums, of course, and especially about potential repackages of The Beatles' catalog (remember Reel Music?), but I suspect that some sort of arrangement like that is the reason why Apple moves at so slow a pace as regards just about everything: first, you have to get all four Beatles or their estates to agree, and then you have to sort out everyone else's claims to the material being released, including EMI's (they own the master tapes, I believe). So there's very little movement apart from that of bootleggers moving in to do what Apple won't or can't.



Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: BlueMeanie on May 30, 2008, 11:01:38 AM
Quote from: 1161

I seem to recall Paul or somebody saying that "everybody has to agree" to a new project or something to that effect around the time The Beatles finally settled the bulk of their outstanding lawsuits with EMI. This would have been around 1988-1990 or so, I think. He was talking about new albums, of course, and especially about potential repackages of The Beatles' catalog (remember Reel Music?), but I suspect that some sort of arrangement like that is the reason why Apple moves at so slow a pace as regards just about everything: first, you have to get all four Beatles or their estates to agree, and then you have to sort out everyone else's claims to the material being released, including EMI's (they own the master tapes, I believe). So there's very little movement apart from that of bootleggers moving in to do what Apple won't or can't.

Hmm...I'm not so sure. If they could all agree on stuff like Anthology, 1, Love, LIB...Naked, etc, I wouldn't have thought that a relatively straightforward process of remastering and re-issuing the back catalogue would cause much dissention in the ranks.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Geoff on May 30, 2008, 11:14:56 AM
Quote from: 483

Hmm...I'm not so sure. If they could all agree on stuff like Anthology, 1, Love, LIB...Naked, etc, I wouldn't have thought that a relatively straightforward process of remastering and re-issuing the back catalogue would cause much dissention in the ranks.

Yeah... true enough. I really don't understand what's going on with Apple, then. They may just prefer to move very slowly and only issue something when everybody's satisfied.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: BlueMeanie on May 30, 2008, 11:47:17 AM
Quote from: 1161
Yeah... true enough. I really don't understand what's going on with Apple, then. They may just prefer to move very slowly and only issue something when everybody's satisfied.

It seems that they're more interested in releasing 'new' product, rather than re-issuing. Yellow Sub. Songtrack, for instance, and all the stuff I previously mentioned would come under the category 'new'. The Yellow Submarine DVD even seems to have been deleted. Funny though, individually they would all seem to see the benefit of remastering and re-issuing, as they've all participated in extensive solo back catalogue re-issues over the years.

Btw, didn't Apple say they were re-issuing MMT later this year?
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: madman on May 30, 2008, 12:06:01 PM
Quote from: 1309
I've seen heated debate between people on whether MMT was a true "Album" or just and EP of singles.
Was it considered an LP in America and just a EP in the UK? Does the new material constitute it as an
album, or just singles new and old collected on an EP? Their is a concept to MMT, not just a rushed release
of songs. I've read in some books as it being just and EP (Extended Play) and others an LP. MMT seems included in many peoples Album canon. It does with me too. Yet some discard it as an lousy Acid induced effort not worth placing in The Beatles line of Albums, they go straight from Pepper to The White Album. So, what's the consensus, Album Worthy LP or just an alright EP?

My vote goes for LP.

As does mine.  Growing up in the US, I never heard anybody not consider it an album.  We sort of vaguely knew that it really hadn't been released that way in the UK, but as imports were expensive back then (in the 70's) there wasn't a realistic way to get the EPs.  Plus, for whatever reason,  the EP never caught on in the US.

The MMT album is one of the few examples of a record company thinking like a consumer.  "No one buys EP's anymore and we have all these singles...hey, let's combine everything and make an album out of it!  Then we can throw in the book and we've got ourselves a winner!"  

Of course I seriously doubt that was the thought process behind it but considering it's a hodge-podge it holds up pretty well.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: BlueMeanie on May 30, 2008, 12:11:07 PM
Quote from: 1330
The MMT album is one of the few examples of a record company thinking like a consumer.  "No one buys EP's anymore and we have all these singles...hey, let's combine everything and make an album out of it!  Then we can throw in the book and we've got ourselves a winner!"  

Of course I seriously doubt that was the thought process behind it but considering it's a hodge-podge it holds up pretty well.

Actually, I think you're absolutely right.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: madman on May 30, 2008, 12:48:49 PM
Quote from: 483
Btw, didn't Apple say they were re-issuing MMT later this year?

When did they say that?  As much as I dislike it, I'd still buy the DVD anyway.

Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: BlueMeanie on May 30, 2008, 12:55:02 PM
I'm sure a few months ago they said it should be out later in the year. Unless I dreamed it!
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: ShesCominDownFastYesSheIs on May 30, 2008, 04:18:27 PM
Quote from: 483

Well, at least HG was in the movie.

only the outro. and what does that matter anyway? I dunno, Hello Goodbye seems to be a break in the "magic" so to speak. I just think that the mellotron of Strawberry Fields would sound much nicer to open side two then Paul screaming YOU SAY YES!!!! into your ear. and as far as CD goes, I think that Strawberry Fields would sound nice after the orchestra and loops of I am the Walrus fade out.

the reason for the tracklisting for tracks 6-11 on MMT seems to be meant to keep the singles together:

6 I am the Walrus/7 Hello Goodbye    
8 Strawberry Fields/9 Penny Lane                  
10 Baby, You're a Rich Man/11 All You Need is Love

as madman said, an example of "record company thinking like a consumer." but whatever, if I lived in the EP vinyl age,  I wouldn't want to only have 6 songs on four sides.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Geoff on May 30, 2008, 07:02:07 PM
Quote from: 483
Funny though, individually they would all seem to see the benefit of remastering and re-issuing, as they've all participated in extensive solo back catalogue re-issues over the years.

Btw, didn't Apple say they were re-issuing MMT later this year?

Individually they all seem to make the sort of marketing decisions you would expect, but collectively much less so and then only slowly. It may say something about the internal politics that still exist at Apple between The Beatles or their executors.

I haven't heard of any upcoming Apple MMT release, and I can't track anything down on Google or at Borders or Amazon. Not that any of that's conclusive, of course.

Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Geoff on May 30, 2008, 07:08:23 PM
Quote from: 532
as madman said, an example of "record company thinking like a consumer." but whatever, if I lived in the EP vinyl age,  I wouldn't want to only have 6 songs on four sides.

I really am a crank: I burned a separate CD using the EP running order just so I could have a facsimile of the original. Same with Long Tall Sally.  ;D
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Spier on May 31, 2008, 05:35:02 PM
Hi,

I am new to this forum, though I am a Beatles fan for a long time. Being Dutch, I grew up with the UK releases and I really think the MMT EP (by the way, their last EMI EP, not counting Free As A Bird and Real Love) is super. It only has 6 songs, I agree, but if you listen through it it really is a super EP.
I agree that the second side of the US released album does not tack with side 1. It is a collection of songs instead of a 'coherent' album. I hope I don't offend anyone with that, but I prefer the EP.

Spier
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: BlueMeanie on May 31, 2008, 05:58:31 PM
Quote from: 1371
I agree that the second side of the US released album does not tack with side 1. It is a collection of songs instead of a 'coherent' album. I hope I don't offend anyone with that, but I prefer the EP.
Spier

 :) Welcome to the forums Spier.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: harihead on May 31, 2008, 07:01:14 PM
Welcome, Spier!
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Geoff on May 31, 2008, 08:08:13 PM
Quote from: 1371
I agree that the second side of the US released album does not tack with side 1. It is a collection of songs instead of a 'coherent' album. I hope I don't offend anyone with that, but I prefer the EP.

Same here, and welcome aboard.  :)

Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Andy Smith on May 31, 2008, 11:24:15 PM
welcome along to DM's forum's Spier!  ;)
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Spier on June 01, 2008, 07:54:16 PM
Hi, Thanks for welcoming me. I think this is a great forum with a lot of different threads.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Kevin on June 04, 2008, 01:29:45 PM
I have no trouble with the album - it's a great piece of music. But I start convulsing when people compare it to "official" albums. No one says the Blue Album is better than say The White album (although it's a official UK release) and no one discusses the merits of Yesterday as a single, despite it's 65 release in the US and subsequent UK '76 release - because no matter what the record companies do it was not intended as such by the band.
If Apple now released an album containing the Long Tall Sally EP songs plus all the not-on-an-album singles of the previous year it would sound good, but please, surely no one would say it's a better Beatles Album than say For Sale. It would sound great, but of course it would because it's stacked with singles.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: madman on June 04, 2008, 02:08:37 PM
Quote from: 185
I have no trouble with the album - it's a great piece of music. But I start convulsing when people compare it to "official" albums. No one says the Blue Album is better than say The White album (although it's a official UK release) and no one discusses the merits of Yesterday as a single, despite it's 65 release in the US and subsequent UK '76 release - because no matter what the record companies do it was not intended as such by the band.
If Apple now released an album containing the Long Tall Sally EP songs plus all the not-on-an-album singles of the previous year it would sound good, but please, surely no one would say it's a better Beatles Album than say For Sale. It would sound great, but of course it would because it's stacked with singles.

Comparing the Blue album to the White album is like comparing apples and oranges, I think.  They're both good in their own way, but one is obviously a "greatest hits" album created by Capitol, while the other is a work created by the Beatles.

Most people know the difference between the two and view them that way, I would imagine.

But since MMT consists of (at that time) all new material created by the Beatles but put together by Capitol, it blurs the line between compilation and original work.  Would it have sold as EP's in the US?  Probably, but nowhere near as much as the LP.

Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour EP or LP?
Post by: Spier on June 04, 2008, 06:39:18 PM
I think comparing albums is impossible. For instance, Beatles For Sale and HELP are considered weaker albums whereas they did pave the way for Rubber Soul, Revolver and so forth. The whole catalogue of Beatles albums (and singles) is an evolution in itself. I always try to judge the individual songs within the greater context.
Title: Magical Mystery Tour - EP vs. Album
Post by: danielcelano on April 22, 2011, 03:12:34 AM
Since Magical Mystery Tour was first released on album in the US, how come it wasn't released on EP in the United Kingdom?
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour - EP vs. Album
Post by: tkitna on April 22, 2011, 05:59:40 AM
The record format released in the United Kingdom on 8 December 1967, was a six-track double EP on the Parlophone label

(http://anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/nixweiss.gif)
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour - EP vs. Album
Post by: nimrod on April 23, 2011, 12:53:44 AM
Since Magical Mystery Tour was first released on album in the US, how come it wasn't released on EP in the United Kingdom?

Ive read that about 6 times now and it still doesnt make sense...
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour - EP vs. Album
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 23, 2011, 03:39:13 AM
Maybe he meant why it wasn't released as LP in UK instead of the double-EP.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour - EP vs. Album
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 23, 2011, 03:50:11 AM
^

If that's the case, it's because the walrus was Paul.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour - EP vs. Album
Post by: peterbell1 on April 23, 2011, 11:01:01 AM
Maybe he meant why it wasn't released as LP in UK instead of the double-EP.

I assumed that's what he meant as well.

I would say it was because The Beatles weren't so keen to re-use singles on LPs - they didn't want record buyers to pay for the same songs twice. So MMT was released in EP format so that it would be cheaper than buying a full LP.
But the public in the UK started buying the US version of MMT on import anyway, because it is a good compilation. So EMI in the UK decided to put it out in LP format in 1976 and then kept that format for the CD releases.
Title: Re: Magical Mystery Tour - EP vs. Album
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 23, 2011, 07:54:26 PM
But the public in the UK started buying the US version of MMT on import anyway, because it is a good compilation.

And perhaps because it had a larger booklet too.   ;)

I remember buying the Capitol Magical Mystery Tour LP right after its release here in the US.  The booklet inside was quite a treat!  I had never seen anything like that before and I remember reading the booklet while I played the LP for the first time.

I still have that LP.  And the others I bought just after their release with the exception of the White Album.  I stood on a line outside Macy's all night long to buy the album on the first day of its release when the store opened.  I gave the album to a girlfriend a year later and bought another in 1970.