DM's Beatles forums
Solo forums => John Lennon => Topic started by: nufc on February 13, 2010, 03:05:27 AM
-
so someone has been trying to tell me that john beat yoko but I have never heard about this or read about this... I know he beat cynthia but did he ever beat yoko??
-
Beat Cynthia? I think that's a pretty strong word for it, he slapped her one time, which he deeply regretted. I'm definately not saying it was okay, but he never caused physical harm from then on. I'm not sure if he beat Yoko, but there was that rumor that John was drunk one night and threw May Pang across a room, and then he sobbed several apologies afterwards. :-\
-
jANIATB HAS NEVER DSAIDNGHAT JOHN BEATN HER.... PMLY BHET SLAPPEWDD HE RONEN TIMER,,,,,
-
jANIATB HAS NEVER DSAIDNGHAT JOHN BEATN HER.... PMLY BHET SLAPPEWDD HE RONEN TIMER,,,,,
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculously amusing.
-
beat was much too strong i know it was minor when talking about abuse... and thats what I said also that he deeply regretted it yeah I thought it was a load but had to check with you beatles experts :D
-
According to one of my books on John it did say he once threatened to divorce Yoko which left her shaken but he never did.
-
If he didnt, he should have.
-
If he didnt, he should have.
ha2ha So mean, and yet I can't stop laughing.
-
If he didnt, he should have.
Ha!!!!!
Yeah, beat is a strong word. The only think I have ever heard was he slapped Cynthia one time when they were first dating, but that was it. He seemed so transfixed on her I doubt he did.
-
If he didnt, he should have.
thats messed man...
-
To me, Did Yoko ever beat John would be the question. ha2ha
-
To me, Did Yoko ever beat John would be the question. ha2ha
Win.
-
If he didnt, he should have.
Well, I agree with you by the way... He should have done that in the early 70s at least.
-
Well, I agree with you by the way... He should have done that in the early 70s at least.
Are you serious?
-
Are you serious?
Well, it is very strange and complicated. On the one hand, I think that John and Yoko were the greatest couple of the 20th century. They embody the 20th century, every side of it. I absolutely believe in John`s love for Yoko, I love the songs he wrote about her, but I suppose that Yoko didn`t love him in the beginning the way he fell for her. Though I also think that Yoko plunged into this love once she got to know him better.
However later she either drifted away from John, or had her own plans concerning her career and how she could use John`s fame in her own interests. She contributed to his drug addiction but later she didn`t even try to get him out of it. As if to keep him under her control. He stayed home, looked after the son, took drugs, while he should have been in the musical world. I for one blame Yoko for the fact that we turned out to be deprived of the songs that John would have written if he hadn`t stayed at home for 5 long years. She didn`t value the man she was with, his talent. She thought only about her "talent". Everything would have turned the other way round if she had been more loving and caring. But she was an egoist.
This is my own opinion. My own conclusions. :)
-
Well, I don't mind what people think of Yoko. It's just... I feel that no matter what you think of her, it can't be right to wish for someone to physically hurt her.
-
I always imagine Yoko been like Miss Piggy doing one of those Karate chops she used to do to poor Kermit the Frog on the Muppet Show , with poor Beatles splatterd all over Abbey Road ha2ha
-
I've heard that John and Yoko often played chess and that Yoko really sucked at it, so John used to beat her all the time.
-
However later she either drifted away from John, or had her own plans concerning her career and how she could use John`s fame in her own interests. She contributed to his drug addiction but later she didn`t even try to get him out of it. As if to keep him under her control. He stayed home, looked after the son, took drugs, while he should have been in the musical world. I for one blame Yoko for the fact that we turned out to be deprived of the songs that John would have written if he hadn`t stayed at home for 5 long years. She didn`t value the man she was with, his talent. She thought only about her "talent". Everything would have turned the other way round if she had been more loving and caring. But she was an egoist.
This is my own opinion. My own conclusions. :)
I you think that's ever an excuse for beating your wife, that I guess you and I have very different values.
Also, I don't see why a woman should automatically give up her ambitions for her husband's ambitions. When John met Yoko, he knew she was an artist. If he wanted a wife to stay home and raise the kids, he should've married someone else. Plain and simple.
-
I you think that's ever an excuse for beating your wife, that I guess you and I have very different values.
Also, I don't see why a woman should automatically give up her ambitions for her husband's ambitions. When John met Yoko, he knew she was an artist. If he wanted a wife to stay home and raise the kids, he should've married someone else. Plain and simple.
Hear hear! And John had an out-of-control drug problem when he was with Cyn, the straightest wife a man could wish for, who was more than happy to stay at home and raise the kids while he wrote songs for us, but no, John rejected that. He got what he wanted, maybe even what he deserved. The only person you can blame for Johns decline and fall is John. The man could be a fool.
-
Hear hear! And John had an out-of-control drug problem when he was with Cyn, the straightest wife a man could wish for, who was more than happy to stay at home and raise the kids while he wrote songs for us, but no, John rejected that. He got what he wanted, maybe even what he deserved. The only person you can blame for Johns decline and fall is John. The man could be a fool.
Well put, K.
I would only add after “while he wrote the songs for us” and regularly f***ed around with her knowledge.
-
Hear hear! And John had an out-of-control drug problem when he was with Cyn, the straightest wife a man could wish for, who was more than happy to stay at home and raise the kids while he wrote songs for us, but no, John rejected that. He got what he wanted, maybe even what he deserved. The only person you can blame for Johns decline and fall is John. The man could be a fool.
This is true. Sometimes I feel like the people who really rag on Yoko are the ones who can't open up their eyes to the fact that John WAS human and had flaws, just like everyone else. And like you said, genius as he was, he could be a fool.
-
Hear hear! And John had an out-of-control drug problem when he was with Cyn,
An out of control drug problem with Cyn? The guy was whacked out on herion when he was with Yoko. I've tripped on acid enough to realize that getting into a physical altercation is the last thing on your mind (even when its a bad trip) and with the business my wife and I run, we're around herion addicts everyday. Trust me, Yoko was at a much higher risk of getting an ass beating than Cynthia. If Cynthia got smacked around, blame that on John for being an a**hole more than the drugs he was taking.
-
This is true. Sometimes I feel like the people who really rag on Yoko are the ones who can't open up their eyes to the fact that John WAS human and had flaws,
I have more issues with the people that have no issues at all with Yoko and think that her and Johns relationship was all rainbows and unicorns. Its out there in black and white and people refuse to see the truth. Kevins was right, he could be such a fool.
-
I have more issues with the people that have no issues at all with Yoko and think that her and Johns relationship was all rainbows and unicorns. Its out there in black and white and people refuse to see the truth.
Oh gosh trust me I am NOT a Yoko fan haha, I'm just saying that sometimes I feel like those who canonize Lennon tend to lay some of his issues off on Yoko.
-
Well, I don't mind what people think of Yoko. It's just... I feel that no matter what you think of her, it can't be right to wish for someone to physically hurt her.
I have looked up the whole thread, not just the post above.
Sorry, I didn`t get the idea of "should have". I thought it was the reaction to the words above "wanted to divorce her". So what I meant was that he should have divorced her. Then maybe his life would have turned the other way round.
-
I you think that's ever an excuse for beating your wife, that I guess you and I have very different values.
Where did you get this idea? I have never said John beat Yoko, actually it was you who said it telling us about chess.
No beating! Certainly not! Beating is prohibited. One can`t beat anyone. Neither the children nor the spouses.
-
Hear hear! And John had an out-of-control drug problem when he was with Cyn, the straightest wife a man could wish for, who was more than happy to stay at home and raise the kids while he wrote songs for us, but no, John rejected that. He got what he wanted, maybe even what he deserved. The only person you can blame for Johns decline and fall is John. The man could be a fool.
Did he have an out-of-control drug problem at that time? I thought it happened later, when he took heroin with Yoko. When he was with Cyn he only played with grass as the other Beatles did, didn`t he? Besides at that time he wrote songs, and we can`t blame Cyn for any substantial musical gap. But we can blame Yoko. She may even have taken advantage of his staying at home. She could have helped him if she really loved him.
And certainly John was to blame for the situation too. "crazy fool"! :-X
-
Well, I don't mind what people think of Yoko. It's just... I feel that no matter what you think of her, it can't be right to wish for someone to physically hurt her.
good post.... it's not right to physically hurt anyone.
-
Where did you get this idea?
I got the idea from the fact that you responsed
"Well, I agree with you by the way... He should have done that in the early 70s at least."
To
"If he didnt, he should have."
Which, I (and several others, I'm sure) assumed was a direct response to the topic title. But you're right, I suppose Tkitna was responding to the post above his.
-
No, I meant that John should have beat her, but I did so as just a little experiment to see who would spaz first and have the thread become nothing more than a spousal abuse lesson. I'm surprised that it didnt to be honest.
So for the record, I was not serious and dont condone physical abuse in any way.
-
Did he have an out-of-control drug problem at that time? I thought it happened later, when he took heroin with Yoko. When he was with Cyn he only played with grass as the other Beatles did, didn`t he? Besides at that time he wrote songs, and we can`t blame Cyn for any substantial musical gap. But we can blame Yoko. She may even have taken advantage of his staying at home. She could have helped him if she really loved him.
And certainly John was to blame for the situation too. "crazy fool"! :-X
Is it not well recorded that lennon spent much of 66 and 67 sitting on the couch going through thousands of trips? He wasn't "playing." That behaviour knocked out Syd Barrett and Brian Jones. And I'm not blaming Cynthia for anything. As I'm not blaming Yoko. John managed to write plenty of songs when he was with her. He chose to "retire" in 75. Yoko didn't make John take drugs. John made John take drugs.
-
No, I meant that John should have beat her, but I did so as just a little experiment to see who would spaz first and have the thread become nothing more than a spousal abuse lesson. I'm surprised that it didnt to be honest.
So for the record, I was not serious and dont condone physical abuse in any way.
nothing wrong with a good slap in the face to bring people back to their senses
-
Is it not well recorded that lennon spent much of 66 and 67 sitting on the couch going through thousands of trips? He wasn't "playing." That behaviour knocked out Syd Barrett and Brian Jones. And I'm not blaming Cynthia for anything. As I'm not blaming Yoko. John managed to write plenty of songs when he was with her. He chose to "retire" in 75. Yoko didn't make John take drugs. John made John take drugs.
I was going to commit a post concurring to the same. Although I would go further than Cynthia, Syd Barrett and Brian Jones. Take a look at Paul, George and Ringo’s faces, back at the Sgt. Pepper launch Party in May 1967. To say the least they all appear very, very concerned about John’s newfangled behavior/LSD consumption.
nothing wrong with a good slap in the face to bring people back to their senses
2ch Yeah. In particular when they’re high on acid. Right?
-
I was going to commit a post concurring to the same. Although I would go further than Cynthia, Syd Barrett and Brian Jones. Take a look at Paul, George and Ringo’s faces, back at the Sgt. Pepper launch Party in May 1967. To say the least they all appear very, very concerned about John’s newfangled behavior/LSD consumption.
By John's own admission his acid intake was destroying him. And that was all his own doing. When I did my trawl through the Times archives, John was very noticeable by his absence from 66 to 68. Almost every interview or insight is from or about McCartney. All the ideas are McCartney. It's as if John wasn't there.
-
By John's own admission his acid intake was destroying him. And that was all his own doing. When I did my trawl through the Times archives, John was very noticeable by his absence from 66 to 68. Almost every interview or insight is from or about McCartney. All the ideas are McCartney. It's as if John wasn't there.
Yes, but the difference is that John was very open about his acid taking and its negative affects on him in interviews whereas he hardly ever talked about taking heroin. According to John (and Yoko) they stopped taking heroin in the early 70s, but there is evidence that suggest they were both still (or again) addicts in the late 70s. Therefore in public it looks like John was (according to what he said himself) unhappy, depressed and constantly on drugs in the 60s compared to blissful domestic happiness with Sean and Yoko from 75 to 80. Personally I could never quite believe that version of events.
Maybe he wasn't as active as Paul from 66 to 68 (But then again, who was? IMO the mid to late 60s were the most creative period in Pauls life and he also had an extremely active social life during that time).
But at least John was able to create and put out some great music and to have more or less normal interactions with his friends and family (compared to being in a creative funk and living isolated from the rest of the world in the late 70s). I also think that during this self-described 'Fat-Elvis-period' he was a lot healthier than in the last years of his life when he looked so incredibly thin.
I think John saw and defined himself first and foremost as an artist, therefore he was happiest when he could be creative and get resonance about his work from other people. So I think his last years when he wasn't able to create something were the real low point in his life. No matter how often he talks about the joys of bread baking or his love for Sean, I always imagine him spending huge amounts of time lying in bed, in front of the TV or strung out on heroin.
Several people (most of them employees who sold their story to the papers after his death, but then again, they were the only people who really saw him at that time) have commented how John seemed to become an almost entirely different person when he decided to make music again in 79/80 compared to the years before when he was just hanging around at home.
To make a long story short: I think John was definitely more happy and healthy during his acid years than during his heroin years. Maybe he felt more threatened during his acid years by the idea of Paul 'taking over' or he felt that he was not able to compete anymore which might have added some psychological pressure, but at least this idea of competition led to him being creative. Between 75 and 79 he seemed to have just given up on life and making music!
And of course both times it was John's own decision to take the drugs. But in Cyn's defence, I have to say, even if she had tried to persuade him to stop (and I don't know if she ever really tried) she wouldn't have achieved anything. Yoko OTOH, as I think we all agree on, had much more influence over John!
-
And of course both times it was John's own decision to take the drugs. But in Cyn's defence, I have to say, even if she had tried to persuade him to stop (and I don't know if she ever really tried) she wouldn't have achieved anything. Yoko OTOH, as I think we all agree on, had much more influence over John!
I like very much the whole post above. But let me quote the last lines and support the idea that Yoko could have tried to help John and could have succeeded. She seems to have managed to get out of heroin herself, why not help the one you love, the one you are with? I know cases when people give up smoking for love and drinking for love. This is all speculation, of course, but she should have at least tried. However, she appeared to be quite comfortable with it all.
Maybe I am too romantic (for love, if she had loved...)?
-
…let me quote the last lines and support the idea that Yoko could have tried to help John and could have succeeded. She seems to have managed to get out of heroin herself, why not help the one you love, the one you are with? I know cases when people give up smoking for love and drinking for love. This is all speculation, of course, but she should have at least tried. However, she appeared to be quite comfortable with it all…
Perhaps.
However, it must be said that, in a broader cultural perspective, addiction was something that was not generally publicly discussed before the 1980’s. Since LSD is not addictive (as far as we know today) and a tiny little tidbit more socially accepted than heroin was, back in the 1970’s, predictably, John could have been much more enthusiastic to voice his own huge acid consumption than to express himself about struggling with opiate use. So, the extent of John potential abuse still remains unclear. Be that as it may, it is very likely – for what I have read (and was never denied), as Shani suggested in the first lines of his comment – that both Yoko and John were hooked again on heroin towards the end of John’s life. So it would have been highly unlikely that one or the other could have helped anyone to get out of addiction in these circumstances.
-
2ch Yeah. In particular when they’re high on acid. Right?
no it wont work then
-
nothing wrong with a good slap in the face to bring people back to their senses
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/lol8.gif)
I agree, but i'm trying to be good.
-
^Yeah well, he had a lot goin' on.
;D
-
According to the controversial Albert Goldman biography John beat Yoko on several occasions.