DM's Beatles forums
Beatles forums => Songs => Topic started by: revenert on October 02, 2009, 06:59:00 PM
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I have a question about the song “Please Please Me”. The stereo version of this song seems like it is a different take from the mono version. For instance near the end of the song when John sings “Come On, Come On” – in the stereo version, it sounds like John is laughing while he sings the first “Come”. In the mono version, he does not. And it also sounds like John got the words messed up just before this in the stereo version. So for this song, was there in fact two takes or just one? If just one, how are the differences explained?
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Can't believe it's taken 4 years for you to ask the same question again! You know, the one that you've already had the answer to! Try the search function.
http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=3499.0 (http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=3499.0)
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Well, correct me if I’m wrong, gentlemen, but would you agree that we have been passing through the Sea of Time?
;)
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woah that's weird. ???
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Revenert, you do like to take your time. Your last post was 18 months ago, and that was 18 months after the one before. While it's a good idea to chew over a question before posting, there are limits. It makes me think of people playing chess by post and taking 5 years to finish a game. I mean, you're still on Please Please Me. Will you get to Abbey Road before you retire? ;D
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BlueMeanie:
Don't know what is more scary - me asking the same question twice or you spending the time researching a 4 year old post!! LOL. Anyway, thanks for the information. In 2013, I'll post a question about "She Loves You", so get ready!!
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BlueMeanie:
Don't know what is more scary - me asking the same question twice or you spending the time researching a 4 year old post!! LOL. Anyway, thanks for the information. In 2013, I'll post a question about "She Loves You", so get ready!!
I did exactly what you could have done, a search. It took about ten seconds to find your original post. You could actually go to that post and thank Al for his very detailed response, instead of just buggering off.
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BlueMeanie:
Don't know what is more scary - me asking the same question twice or you spending the time researching a 4 year old post!! LOL. Anyway, thanks for the information. In 2013, I'll post a question about "She Loves You", so get ready!!
The Blue Meanie sez: do it right or get castigated again!
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In 2013, I'll post a question about "She Loves You", so get ready!!
I'm plugging in my Relativity Cadenza. It was made at Harvard. ;)
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The Beatles - Please Please Me - 45 RPM - TRUE ORIGINAL MONO MIX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sERIodVHnA#ws-normal)
07 - Please Please Me - The Beatles Remastered (2009) Please Please Me [Stereo] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqWyCyTdZzk#ws-normal)
yeah, i definitely hear that laugh and the wrong lyrics
what's strange is if you compare "..pleasin with you it's so hard to reason with you" in both versions, john is slightly flat on the word "hard" in both so they seem to be the same take
maybe there was a "dropped in" edit for only some of the vocals. that's the only explanation i can imagine
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So was the version with the flubbed lyric and the laugh the one which was considered to be the best take of the song - and the mistake was corrected with an edit piece for the mono mix, but the edit piece wasn't used during the stereo mix?
Or is it not as simple as that?
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^ Once again:
http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=3499.0 (http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=3499.0)
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Thanks. I read that before I posted my question (I assume you're pointing me to The End's post at the "the end" of that old thread), but I don't think it answers my question, does it?
The difference between the mono and stereo versions was caused by an engineer using the wrong takes/edit pieces when creating a stereo version of the LP.
I'd like to know exactly how the error shows up in the stereo mix but is hidden for the mono version.
Is the stereo mix a complete take (complete with mistake) and the mono mix has an edit piece to hide that mistake?
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I'm going to guess that the stereo and mono versions used different "takes". John flubs the vocal in one take, not in another.
Can't it be that simple, or am I missing something obvious (again?).
Thanks -
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/hermionestarchild/gifs/genius.gif)
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alexis, it seems to be the same take for stereo and mono - you can tell by comparing subtle nuances in the vocal
it's just that the one 'flubbed' part was covered with a 'band aid' for the mono
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there's actually a really good book on this topic called "Please Please Me; The Last 35 Seconds {What Went Wrong}"
chapter four uncovers alot of speculation that a fly in the studio had landed on john lennon's nose while he sang that part. the rest, of course, is music history
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there's actually a really good book on this topic called "Please Please Me; The Last 35 Seconds {What Went Wrong}"
chapter four uncovers alot of speculation that a fly in the studio had landed on john lennon's nose while he sang that part. the rest, of course, is music history
That's a great book - they have interviews with Lennon, McCartney, AND the fly.
As a Beatles reference book it's right up there with "Across The Universe - The Beatles In Space: A Study of The Fab Four's Intergalactic Travels".
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alexis, it seems to be the same take for stereo and mono - you can tell by comparing subtle nuances in the vocal
it's just that the one 'flubbed' part was covered with a 'band aid' for the mono
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there's actually a really good book on this topic called "Please Please Me; The Last 35 Seconds {What Went Wrong}"
chapter four uncovers alot of speculation that a fly in the studio had landed on john lennon's nose while he sang that part. the rest, of course, is music history
Hi nyfan41 - thanks for the reference!
Even though another take can be spliced in for just even a word or two, I have a feeling that you are right, that this isn't the explanation for the differences in John's vocal between the mono version (no mistake) and stereo version (vocal flub). If that were the case, since the mono would have been the 1st one to be worked on, it's hard to imagine why they would use a "worse" take when putting together the stereo version - they already had a good take from the mono version! Unless they were just in such a hurry, and put so little work into the stereo version that they just grabbed the most available take to use.
I've heard that the stereo versions were afterthoughts way back then, but that would be a bit much.
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found this on another site regarding the recording of p.p.m.
26th November 1962 in 18 takes
(A slower version was recorded 11th September 1962, but erased)
Final mix - mono was one single take, whereas stereo was takes 16/17/18 edited
. . . The Beatles FIRST official L.P. release
For the ONLY time, the mono version was issued 6 weeks BEFORE the stereo version . . .
not sure about the accuracy of this info because it says the slow version was erased and everyone's heard the slow version on anthology
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this is alot of attention paid to a small detail. on the other hand - it's one of their best songs, so why not
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Thanks to our friends at Google I found this page ....
http://www.norwegianwood.org/beatles/disko/uklp/please.htm (http://www.norwegianwood.org/beatles/disko/uklp/please.htm)
... which contains the following info:
Please Please Me
basic recording- 26 Nov 1962
additional recording- 26 Nov 1962
master tape- twintrack 2d generation
mono mixed: 26 Nov 1962. edited.
stereo mixed: 25 Feb 1963. edited.
Please Please Me (mono) and (stereo) were made from different takes, although the five sections of harmonica are the same on both. The harmonica overdubbing was only done once.
The stereo version has the famous collision in verse 3 on "You know you never even try"/"Why do I never even try", followed by the laugh on "Come on come on". Some have explained this difference by saying the mistake was repaired for the mono version by editing in a replacement for just this section. However, the two versions have differences all the way through, so they must be two different complete takes. For example, in verse 1, compare the sound of the word "try" in the second line, and in the bridge, compare "reason with you, oh yeah" in the stereo version against "reason with you, whoa oh yeah" in the mono version. John's voice is rougher all the way through the mono take.
In stereo, the harmonica appears in the right channel, the same as the vocal. During the first 4 segments, which occur between vocal lines, the bass guitar sound also comes way up on the right, and the whole ambience changes much more than in mono. During the last segment, which overlays vocals, the harmonica is less audible than in the mono mix, which is puzzling.
Lewisohn reports in Recording Sessions that the mono mix was from "unknown takes", meaning he saw no studio documentation for takes. The easiest explanation is to suppose that the mixing information was already missing in February 1963 and that it led to the staff accidentally editing the pieces into the wrong take when they did the stereo mix, three months after the mono. The changes in ambience therefore are the difference between two takes.
David Prokopy on r.m.b. has proposed that a tape reel was lost, so that the harmonica survived only on the mono mix itself, and that therefore the stereo mix was made by synchronizing the mono mix with an alternate take. This explains why the first 4 segments don't have just the harmonica by itself on the right, but have bass and some of the other sound as well (i.e. the right channel is a processed version of the mono mix), and why the last harmonica segment is at lower volume, namely to hide that it doesn't really match. The last particularly would mean they were deliberately using a different take for want of the correct one.
So there's two suggested answers there:
1. The two versions of PPM are different takes, with the same harmonica overdub added to both.
2. The stereo version was created by synching the mono take with another, different, take.
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i don't believe they are completely diferent vocal takes as i mentioned in my post with the two videos.
compare them side by side using the pause button -
the mono version at 1:40
and the stereo version at 1:12
john is minutely flat on the word "hard" (from "hard to reason with you") in both versions to an identical degree and i can't believe they are different takes
i also can't believe one of my favorite songs is proving to be a frankenstein hybrid of lies and studio trickery ! !
(^^ nah, just kidding about that part)
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i don't believe they are completely diferent vocal takes as i mentioned in my post with the two videos.
compare them side by side using the pause button -
the mono version at 1:40
and the stereo version at 1:12
john is minutely flat on the word "hard" (from "hard to reason with you") in both versions to an identical degree and i can't believe they are different takes
i also can't believe one of my favorite songs is proving to be a frankenstein hybrid of lies and studio trickery ! !
(^^ nah, just kidding about that part)
Hi NYfan41 - I think almost every song is an amalgam of different takes ... Lewisohn illustrates this a lot, it's a common studio/engineering/production technique.
Doesn't make it any less of a great song though!
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I think almost every song is an amalgam of different takes ... Lewisohn illustrates this a lot, it's a common studio/engineering/production technique.
Doesn't make it any less of a great song though!
I agree, alexis. I've never cared to dissect the studio productions of The Beatles' early songs. The "Alternate" series of Beatles albums on the Pear label demonstrate how their songs were put together utilizing different takes.
Fortunately, we have live performances of their early catalog for comparison.
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Paul can still make girls scream...and cry...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3NTVkHwD5I# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3NTVkHwD5I#)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MWVo1fjRsQ# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MWVo1fjRsQ#)
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Paul can still make girls scream...and cry...
Nice to see that there are young fans as well as older ones.