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Beatles forums => Songs => Song Of The Week Series => Topic started by: nimrod on January 07, 2013, 09:30:30 AM

Title: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: nimrod on January 07, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
Hi, I havent finished my write up about this song but I just wanted to get it going as its overdue (thanks to distractions like Christmas  ;D)

anyway I put some info soon, in the meantime, do you like it ?
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: stevie on January 07, 2013, 10:27:14 AM
Yep, is my Beatles top 10.

Beautifully crafted, all facets of it played with care and skill. Funny story too, because I never realised it had all the little guitar in the verses until I played on Rock Band, lol.

John's voice sounds great, the bass is awesome, the drums ( ok, some books say that Paul played drums on it as Ringo was still away fed up; I think we've discussed this on another thread but I think it doesn't sound like Paul's drum style at all. Compare it with 'The Ballad of Ohn and Yoko', for instance) I dunno, maybe TK can give us more info. I used to have the Mark Lewisohn book years ago, but loaned it out and never got it back!

One of the Beatle's best songs.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Klang on January 07, 2013, 11:22:15 AM

Love it.

 :)

Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: nimrod on January 07, 2013, 11:32:36 AM
Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play
Dear Prudence, greet the brand new day
The sun is up, the sky is blue
It's beautiful and so are you
Dear Prudence won't you come out to play

Dear Prudence open up your eyes
Dear Prudence see the sunny skies
The wind is low the birds will sing
That you are part of everything
Dear Prudence won't you open up your eyes?

Look around round round
Look around round round
Oh look around

Dear Prudence let me see you smile
Dear Prudence like a little child
The clouds will be a daisy chain
So let me see you smile again
Dear Prudence won't you let me see you smile?

Dear Prudence, won't you come out to play
Dear Prudence, greet the brand new day
The sun is up, the sky is blue
It's beautiful and so are you
Dear Prudence won't you come out to play


The subject of the song is Prudence Farrow, actress Mia Farrow's sister, who was present when the Beatles went to India to study with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
Farrow became so serious about her meditation that she "turned into a near recluse" and "rarely came out" of the cottage she was living in. John Lennon was asked to "contact her and make sure she came out more often to socialize". As a result, Lennon wrote the song "Dear Prudence". In the song Lennon asks Farrow to "open up your eyes" and "see the sunny skies" reminding her that she is "part of everything". The song was said to be "a simple plea to a friend to 'snap out of it'".
Lennon said later that "She'd been locked in for three weeks and was trying to reach God quicker than anyone else".
According to Farrow: "I would always rush straight back to my room after lectures and meals so I could meditate. John, George and Paul would all want to sit around jamming and having a good time and I'd be flying into my room. They were all serious about what they were doing, but they just weren't as fanatical as me".
Lennon did play the song for Farrow while they were in India together. According to Farrow, "I was flattered. It was a beautiful thing to have done".
The lyrics of the song are simple and innocent and praise the beauty of nature in the lines: "The sun is up, the sky is blue, it's beautiful, and so are you".
They recorded the song at Trident Studios in London on 28, 29 and 30 August 1968.
Utilising state of the art eight-track recording equipment, the basic track included finger picking guitar performed by John Lennon as well as George Harrison on the lead guitar, plus Paul McCartney playing the drums in place of Ringo Starr, who had temporarily left the Beatles. The next day, McCartney performed and recorded the bass track and Lennon recorded additional layers to his vocals. Handclapping, tambourine and cowbell were then added by McCartney and Harrison. On the last day of the recording session, piano and flügelhorn tracks were recorded by McCartney.
The complete list of recording session personnel included:

John Lennon – double-tracked vocal, backing vocal, acoustic guitar
Paul McCartney – backing vocal, drums, bass, piano, flügelhorn, tambourine, cowbell, handclaps
George Harrison – backing vocal, lead guitar
Mal Evans – backing vocal, handclaps
Jackie Lomax – backing vocal, handclaps
John McCartney (Paul's cousin) – backing vocal, handclaps

Recorded: 28-30 August 1968
Producer: George Martin
Engineer: Barry Sheffield

In the Complete Beatles Recording Sessions, Mark Lewisohn notes that the end of the song originally featured applause from those who contributed backing vocals and handclaps, though it was left out of the final mix.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 07, 2013, 11:55:47 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fs8IIOUj3Dc/TWVgYgsgfRI/AAAAAAAAIPM/y9tnsr5cspw/s1600/dearprudence.jpg)



(http://i45.tinypic.com/2ymyjbk.jpg)


It's one of my favorite songs on the double LP.  John's voice was at its peak.  Paul's bass was the perfect accompaniment.  In 1969, I was seeing a girl named Nancy.  She had a younger sister named Prudence who would love it when I played this song for her on guitar.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: nimrod on January 08, 2013, 12:18:20 AM
looking at those pics Baz, I bet the people on them would just love to go back to those days, wonder how the very working class hairdresser Maureen got on living with the very middle class and well educated Jane :D
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 08, 2013, 12:37:05 AM
Rishikesh brought out Jane's freckles...


(http://i49.tinypic.com/wunhxv.jpg)



 :)
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 08, 2013, 12:42:30 AM
The Beatles - "Dear Prudence" Stereo Remaster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmF698mXzLg#ws)
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: tkitna on January 08, 2013, 01:57:53 AM
Top two or three Beatle tunes for me ever. Love it. John is just too smooth as usual and the guitar is nice and crisp. Bass sounds awesome and I love the drumming and piano. I've never read anywhere that hasent stated that Paul was the drumer, but I admit, it sure does sound like Ringo. It has his style written all over it, but it was Paul. I never tire of the song and shush everybody in the room when it comes on. 
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: nimrod on January 08, 2013, 02:00:17 AM
For any budding guitarists  ;D


How to play "Dear Prudence" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ErmV1mIF8A#)
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Brynjar on January 08, 2013, 02:49:13 PM
Nice thread. Well done, nimrod. And thank you for that photo of Jane, Hello Goodbye.  :P
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Dcazz on January 09, 2013, 01:25:00 PM
Might be my favorite beatles song. I think this is one of Johns timless songs with great imagery and compassion.
When I listen to it I hear 4 ( maybe 5) guitar parts which is one of my favorite things to do, seperate Beatles guitar parts (or try). The two intro guitar parts where John does his Donavan inspired riff throughout the song and behind that is George doing an electric rythm. This goes on through the whole song. At 1:50, George comes in with a short lead riff which opens up the song to it's gradually intensifying cresendo. At 2;15 Georges lead starts a bit quietly and builds with each verse until it's magnificent last verse (this is a similar lead method George used in Dr. Robert, as his lead starts rather small but by the 3rd verse it becomes a very intense lead that dominates the song). When The lead starts I think I hear an over dub of an second guitar matching at lower tone right behind  the main notes . This is why I say maybe 5 guitar parts. At the same time Georges lead starts, John (I believe) John comes in with a single grinding chord that is repeated through out till the end of the song where the song reverts to the same 2 guitars in the intro until it fades.
I think this may be the best guitar work of all time. It is truly "crafted and I never get tired of hearing this one!
Let me know what you think!
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on January 09, 2013, 03:22:06 PM
Easily my very favorite song from the White Album and has always been a Top 10 (and maybe a Top 5) for me. A beautiful touch of sweetness, something hard to find in John's catalog. Paul's drumming is amazing, maybe that's why John said that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles (though I don't agree).
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: nimrod on January 01, 2019, 01:03:25 AM
Might be my favorite beatles song. I think this is one of Johns timless songs with great imagery and compassion.
When I listen to it I hear 4 ( maybe 5) guitar parts which is one of my favorite things to do, seperate Beatles guitar parts (or try). The two intro guitar parts where John does his Donavan inspired riff throughout the song and behind that is George doing an electric rythm. This goes on through the whole song. At 1:50, George comes in with a short lead riff which opens up the song to it's gradually intensifying cresendo. At 2;15 Georges lead starts a bit quietly and builds with each verse until it's magnificent last verse (this is a similar lead method George used in Dr. Robert, as his lead starts rather small but by the 3rd verse it becomes a very intense lead that dominates the song). When The lead starts I think I hear an over dub of an second guitar matching at lower tone right behind  the main notes . This is why I say maybe 5 guitar parts. At the same time Georges lead starts, John (I believe) John comes in with a single grinding chord that is repeated through out till the end of the song where the song reverts to the same 2 guitars in the intro until it fades.
I think this may be the best guitar work of all time. It is truly "crafted and I never get tired of hearing this one!
Let me know what you think!

Yes.
All the more revealed on the new Remix.
This song seems to have that timeless quality, it never dates, its an incredible song sung magnificently by John, Ive heard covers but they pale in comparrison to John, he could put so much emotion in his voice.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Loco Mo on January 01, 2019, 05:12:07 PM
In a previous post, I said I thought Paul's "Mother Nature's Son" was the best song on the album.

But I can't really say that 100%.  "Dear Prudence" is absolutely beautiful.  It's another Beatles piece that I appreciated more as I grew older and "matured(?)"

I've often wondered if John liked Prudence as a possible romantic interest.  The song sure sounds like he's trying to reach out to her and attract her attention.

Oh my God, what a beautiful couple they'd have made!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: stevie on January 03, 2019, 11:28:06 PM
Yeah top 5 for me of all time Beatle songs. Possibly number 2.

I love playing the bass in this as it’s not that hard but still a fantastic line. My only gripe is that in the last third of the song, the bass is mixed really low and isn’t as prominent as the rest of the song. Seems like a studio error or maybe a late overdub that wasn’t mixed right.  It’s like there was two different bass lines recorded.  Annoys me no end as it kind of spoils the crescendo at the end.   All the other instruments get louder except for the murky bass.

While on the subject of bass, I’ve always thought that Duff’s lines in a lot of Guns N Roses songs were mixed way too low as well lol
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Mr Mustard on January 04, 2019, 02:30:45 AM
Always mildly baffled at the kudos this one gets.

A swift and guiltless "delete" for me in the "Turn The White Album into a single LP" game.

I appreciate it's a gentle salve straight off the back of Paul's prickly USSR rocker. But I find it simply TOO airy-fairy and wispy - John's emasculated lead vocal is like candy floss and more or less evaporates on delivery. The backing ("Look around round round...") sounds like the others are on a double dose of Mogadon.

One of only two original Beatles numbers eclipsed by a cover version (Siouxsie & The Banshees' rendition demolishes it IMO).
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: nimrod on January 04, 2019, 03:24:29 AM
Always mildly baffled at the kudos this one gets.

A swift and guiltless "delete" for me in the "Turn The White Album into a single LP" game.

I appreciate it's a gentle salve straight off the back of Paul's prickly USSR rocker. But I find it simply TOO airy-fairy and wispy - John's emasculated lead vocal is like candy floss and more or less evaporates on delivery. The backing ("Look around round round...") sounds like the others are on a double dose of Mogadon.

One of only two original Beatles numbers eclipsed by a cover version (Siouxsie & The Banshees' rendition demolishes it IMO).

For me it has some magic about it, an x factor I cant describe (like a few of Johns songs) I love it
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: zipp on January 04, 2019, 03:49:06 PM
The thing I like most about Dear Prudence is the mixture of John's dreamy poetics and George's Indian influence.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Loco Mo on January 05, 2019, 12:49:16 AM
Well, as I posted before, a long time ago I didn't care much for "Dear Prudence."  For some reason that changed and I like it now.

Actually, another song that made no sense to me was "Birthday."  I couldn't understand why the Beatles wrote something like that.  Was it Paul's composition?

Now, I kind of like it.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hello Goodbye on June 01, 2022, 05:34:50 PM

They recorded the song at Trident Studios in London on 28, 29 and 30 August 1968.
Utilising state of the art eight-track recording equipment, the basic track included finger picking guitar performed by John Lennon as well as George Harrison on the lead guitar, plus Paul McCartney playing the drums in place of Ringo Starr, who had temporarily left the Beatles. The next day, McCartney performed and recorded the bass track and Lennon recorded additional layers to his vocals. Handclapping, tambourine and cowbell were then added by McCartney and Harrison. On the last day of the recording session, piano and flügelhorn tracks were recorded by McCartney.
The complete list of recording session personnel included:

John Lennon – double-tracked vocal, backing vocal, acoustic guitar
Paul McCartney – backing vocal, drums, bass, piano, flügelhorn, tambourine, cowbell, handclaps
George Harrison – backing vocal, lead guitar
Mal Evans – backing vocal, handclaps
Jackie Lomax – backing vocal, handclaps
John McCartney (Paul's cousin) – backing vocal, handclaps

Recorded: 28-30 August 1968
Producer: George Martin
Engineer: Barry Sheffield




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptAmOYIFIx8# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptAmOYIFIx8#)
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: blmeanie on June 01, 2022, 09:15:39 PM
the comments on that youtube dear prudence video are very entertaining.  The debate rages on whether the drumming changes from paul (documentation suggests Paul was the drummer on this song while Ringo had quit) to Ringo mid song with overdubs. 

Very healthy debate by people very opinionated.  Fun
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: nimrod on June 01, 2022, 10:45:05 PM

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptAmOYIFIx8#[/url] ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptAmOYIFIx8#[/url])


It couldn't have been Paul as he had died earlier, maybe the recently deceased Alan White.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hello Goodbye on June 01, 2022, 11:40:49 PM
Very healthy debate by people very opinionated.  Fun


It couldn't have been Paul as he had died earlier, maybe the recently deceased Alan White.


Maybe this will help to explain it...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6XeedT-s4# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6XeedT-s4#)

...Well, I guess that didn't answer the question.


Or maybe it did, at  0:18 - 0:43
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Moogmodule on June 02, 2022, 09:35:19 AM
I remember hearing a podcast years ago on this that was pretty convincing that the latter drumming is an overdub. Whether that means Ringo overdubbed we’ll never know. But it sounds a lot like Ringo’s drumming and I’ve never heard Paul drum like that again.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hello Goodbye on June 02, 2022, 08:30:53 PM
I remember hearing a podcast years ago on this that was pretty convincing that the latter drumming is an overdub. Whether that means Ringo overdubbed we’ll never know. But it sounds a lot like Ringo’s drumming and I’ve never heard Paul drum like that again.

I agree, Moog.  I listened to the entire McCartney album last night.  Paul was proficient at drumming but rudimentary in comparison to Ringo.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Loco Mo on June 03, 2022, 01:38:45 AM
Hasn't anyone ever asked Ringo about this?
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hello Goodbye on June 03, 2022, 02:35:32 AM
^

Or Paul?
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Moogmodule on June 03, 2022, 02:51:26 AM
Hasn't anyone ever asked Ringo about this?

I seem to recall Ringo commenting on it somewhere. But all the Beatles memories are so hazy. I don’t think the answer went beyond,” I’d taken a break, they did Dear Prudence when I wasn’t there”.  If he did overdub he didnt seem to recall.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hello Goodbye on June 03, 2022, 03:34:03 AM
Well, Paul didn't say anything about Ringo here...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AZc1XDmVEY# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AZc1XDmVEY#)
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Hello Goodbye on June 03, 2022, 03:54:39 AM
Hasn't anyone ever asked Ringo about this?


Here, Ringo remembers leaving the band and taking his family to Sardinia...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFtOd7siwiI# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFtOd7siwiI#)

He didn't say anything about drumming on Dear Prudence.  But he talked about The Beatles' farting habits.

I guess we'll never know for sure.


Anyway, here's the Esher demo...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71owuo5tnEk# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71owuo5tnEk#)
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Moogmodule on June 04, 2022, 02:11:59 AM
I had a proper lookout your video HG. It is interesting and I think pretty conclusively demonstrates that the latter drumming is an overdub. And I suppose the idea that Paul did several takes and stitched them together to produce the final Ringo-esque drumming isn't implausible. There's something about the precision and tightness of it though that still says more Ringo than Paul to me. His examples of Paul drumming meant to show Paul could have done it weren't that convincing. But against that is there being no record Ringo ever overdubbed on the track. Although if there's no record of any overdubs taking place when there clearly is overdubbed drums I'm not sure that's the clinching argument he thinks it is.

We shall never know it seems. Regardless great song and love that final drumming regardless who did it.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: Loco Mo on June 04, 2022, 01:11:53 PM
What a beautiful song!  It's amazing to hear the demo (no drums) and after that the final version (with drums added).  It already sounded very good in the demo but more of the song's vitality and nuance was brought out as they completed the song.  I like how the tempo changed near the middle and how, I think Paul(?) reacted with an excited falsetto sounding and approving "yes."  John was a magnificent songwriter, and his voice was perfect for whatever he sang.  He was also so great at extemporaneous dialogue (at the end).  So creative (consider Give Peace a Chance by comparison).  His words flowed so naturally forth.  What an amazing quick-witted intelligence he had.

The drums really added a lot to this song.  The guitars closing is so tender (aww).  It touches my soul.

The straight drumbeat could have been Paul, but the high-hat work sounded more skillful to me.  But yes, the steady hard beat certainly could be Paul.  So, I'm leaning for Paul and not for a Ringo overdub.

But the fills at the end (very Ringo) but also somewhat muted (Paul?).  Closing the song with a solid steady beat and then none ... 

My verdict - I think Paul.  I think they didn't want the drums to be very prominent in the mix as they wanted the focus more on the pretty melodies and tender mood of the song.
Title: Re: Song Of The Week - Dear Prudence
Post by: stevie on June 05, 2022, 06:58:57 AM
The drumming is definitely overdubbed in the last section of the song IMO. And the bass sounds so muddy compared to the rest of the song that it’s prolly an overdub too