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Author Topic: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P  (Read 7338 times)

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Bobber

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2007, 08:44:45 AM »

Quote from: 524
A poster Tim, on ilXor.com calls Piero Scaruffi's anti-Beatles page a horrah and said he doesn't want to read through that garbage again! And then he said I mean Wow. He said  The Beatles were a great rock group. But there were quite a few people agreeing with a poster on here who said everything he hates about The Beatles is their trite lyrics, their voices, drunken pub sing a long melodies,nasally singing and cluncky sound. He and the few who agrees with him must have them mixed up with some other singers and groups! Bob Dylan as many people have said over the years  has nver had a good singing voice, and Tom Petty's is a very nassaly annoying voice, and Bruce Springteen's voice is the worst I ever heard,he sounds like he's throwing up to a music backing. But John and Paul were as The All Music Guide and many others have said,among the best  and most expressive singers in rock! John Lennon especially had such a unique beautiful voice,just listen to him sing This Boy especially the middle part,Dear Prudence, If I Fell, In My Life etc etc and  he also had a great rock voice too,Revolution, Money, Happiness is A Warm Gun,etc etc. George Martin says John's is one of the best voices he ever heard. And recording engineers said they always were amazed by John's voice and wanted to hear it live,and when The Beatles recorded Baby You're A Rich Man in May 1967,they said  how great John's voice  was and they couldn't belive that anyone could sing that well! And of course Paul has always been a great singer with a very good sounding voice and  has both a great love song and great rock voice with a great range. I just can't understand some people!
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fanofthefab4

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2007, 09:07:58 AM »

Quote from: 197
Well whenever i hear someone who doesn't like the beatles for good reason, i just think 'hah, if only they knew what they're missing out on', so in other words, their the suckers really for not knowing how much pleasure (musical ;D) they can really get out of them..i'd give anything to re-discover the beatles again, knowing hardly any of their stuff. Thank god we've discovered them is what i say!


Not liking The Beatles for *good* reason? I hope you meant for no good reason! Because as we know there isn't any good reason not to like them except maybe a few songs. And otherwise it wouldn't make any sense with the rest of what you said. But everything else you said is so right on!  I have posted this on this site already but I'm going to tell you,that I have found  over 40  former Beatles haters on many different message  boards and web sites who are now big Beatles fans. I didn't communicate with them at all,but they wrote that they had a lot of misperceptions about them and  hadn't even heard most of their albums and  songs. Most people  of all ages love or at least like The Beatles worldwide,and most people don't hate them in the first place. But most people don't  go from hating a group to loving them and becoming big fans! This just really goes to show how great The Beatles really are!  If you type in quotes " I used to hate The Beatles" on the google.com search engine you will find these people.

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Kevin

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2007, 11:39:15 AM »

I just read his Beatle review (well most of it, I got bored).
His arguement about The music isn't really that new. That there were bands producing experiamental or new music that were totally ignored by the public, and hence the mainstream media (or maybe it's vice versa) you can't really argue about. That The Beatles absorbed these influences like a sponge and reproduced them in a more commercially succesful way is also quite right. I've read a similar line in Q (which is VERY Beatle friendly). But they deemed it as a positive, not a negative. The Beatles were, after all, in the business of selling records, and by the bucket load. What's the point in being new and experimental, making one album that noone listens to and dissapearing? According to Q (and I have to go with them) their genius was their receptiveness to all things new and their ability to take all these disparate and fringe ideas and turn them into something that can get played on the radio. (wasn't the backwards guitar thing a result of Paul's infatuation with Stockhausen and the likes?) And before anyone yells at me that's no easy thing - noone else could do it. So Q turn into a positive and PS turns it into a negative. Everyones got an arguement, everyone can take the same facts and come to a different conclusion.
His socio-philosphical arguements are out of my league. He seems to accuse The Beatles of being part of a middle class conspiracy to take black music out of rock and roll and replace it with nice smiley commercial friendly white faces, to make the revolution less of a threat. But then he seems to be the kind of "free thinker" that thinks all middle classes are unwitting brainwashed sheep. Baaaa!
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fanofthefab4

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2007, 12:45:34 PM »

Kevin,

The Beatles did *hell* of a lot more than copy other people's music and thats not even what they did most of the time! Just because they were influenced by other music artists,a hell of lot more music artists copied *them* ! The Rolling Stones for example often copied The Beatles and their 1967 Their Satanic  Majesties Request was a blatant rip off of Sgt Pepper but idiots like Scaruffi are not going to mention this! Many people including music reviewers Wilson and Alroy  have said that Led Zeppelin often ripped off other music groups and artists guitar riffs and made it seem orginal! I just posted on here before that a guy on a site  ilXor.com said that Scaruffi's article about The Beatles is a horrah and he said I mean WOW and  he said he didn't want to read that garbage again!  I suggest you go to a library and read Mark Lewisohn's The Beatles Recording Sessions  and then maybe you will see I'm right!  Scaruffi  as I said claims that The Beatles had no creative depth and did nothing innovative, but he thinks The Fugs who I never heard of were and The Doors who many have said were pretntious crap and weren't good musicicans, they didn't even have a bass player let alone one as great as Paul who in addition was always a great singer and musical composer, and  claims that no musicians of The Beatles time praised them and couldn't understand why they were held in such high regard. I *already* gave *many* factual examples of how this is totally false!  I'm not going to list all of the examples and countless well known musicians  again who *have* praised them!


 He also claims there were no drugs,sex or politics in Beatles songs I also listed many songs that *did* have sex and drugs in them and John's Revolution *was* a political song! Which is just *another* example of how he doesn't know what he's talking about! He also says The Beatles(he has to mean the early Beatles) haircuts were like comedien Ish Kibibble's that is ridiculous to even mention and irelevant! He claims that the reason The Beatles who he calls just 4 mediocre musicians are the most popular critically acclaimed group of all time is because they just made music with nice melodies that appeals to the masses and because of George Martin and Brian Epstein's marketing. Can he explain all of the one hit wonders and the other groups that had good marketing but really were artificial pop groups that didn't become the most popular and crtically acclaimed group even 37 years after they broke up and Brian Epstein has been dead 40 years now?  A named George on this site Historic Lists The Greatest Rock Bands and Guitarists of All time says the recent Q magazine calls The Beatles The Most Essential rock artists of all time. Q Magazine doesn't say The Beatles never did anything innovative or creative and doesn't call them mediocre musicians who just had nice melodies for the masses and were popular mostly because of George Martin and Brian Epstein's marketing! As I said the wikipedia online encylopedia says most rock critics around the world disagree with him about The Beatles! Look up The Beatles biography on The All Music Guide online and you will see that they say they were the single greatest rock act of all time and introcuced more innovations into music than anyone!  You know Beatles haters use Scaruffi as a reference source something to keep in mind when you say you are a Beatles fan on a Beatles fan site!
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fanofthefab4

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2007, 02:12:10 PM »

I also want to mention that I have found more than a few people on different message boards saying that they don't like Mick Jagger's or Rober Plant's voices. And  Frank Marino the guitarist from the hard rock group Mahogany Rush says on two online interviews that he has always hated The Rollling Stones  but he still likes and listens to  The Beatles,Jimi Hendrix etc. And Nick Navarro from Jane's Adiction is quoted on a Jane's Addiction web site from Guitar World in 1991 and 1996 saying he has always hated The Rolling Stones and he always will and he will  never play an album by them! :D
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Kevin

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2007, 02:12:11 PM »

OK, lets get this straight. I'm not on this guys side, just trying to show how someone can look at something and come to a totally different conclusion.
I never said The Beatles did nothing but copy other peoples work. That's silly. What I said was "their genius was their receptiveness to all things new and their ability to take all these disparate and fringe ideas and turn them into something that can get played on the radio." . Totally different meaning. You lept to the wrong conclusion and started talking about people "ripping off" things. Totally off the mark.
 Where would they have been without Dylan, The Byrds and Brian Wilson? And yes, I've read Lewishon's book. And I was trying to show how Q magazine had that same belief, but turned into a positive. It is no detriment that they went away and listened to music outside the mainstream and used these influences to create incredibly fantastic music that was of huge influence to others. I think it boils down to what you think "innovative" and "creative" mean. I don't agree with him, but I can see Mr PS's background (left wing academic) might mean that he places different meanings to these words than me.
 I agree he's wrong about The Beatles not recieving contempary praise. We know they did.
The sex and drugs thing - to be honest I listened to all those songs for years without realising their "hidden" meanings.You must agree that they are exceptionally vague. Mr PS could well argue that what is the validity of having these references if noone knows they're there. He would argue that everyone knew what "Mothers Little Helper" and "Lets Spend The Night Together" were about. Then you would say their genius was their subtelty, their ability to insert  subversive meanings into otherwise harmless songs. And on it goes.
The haircut thing - you're both being silly.
And the popularity thing - I think he went to extrordinory lengths to say why he thought what he thought. I, like you, don't agree with him. But he's not an idiot, and as I said a lot of things were out of my league.
My friend - I agree with most of what you say about The Beatles. It's just that your fanatical zealousness makes Al-Queeda (sp) look like boyscouts. And do you really go around websites identifying former "Beatle Haters."

ps I'd be careful about using Hunter Davies as a reference (authorised should be replaced by "sanatised"), or for that matter Anthology. The Beatles openly said they were telling their side of the story. Great chunks are missing (Yoko and the breakup get nary a mention) and time can colour even the greatest of memories.
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fanofthefab4

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2007, 02:22:26 PM »

I am not fanatical I'm very knowledgeable about The Beatles and I'm trying correct the ignorant inaccurate garbage Scaruffi says about The Beatles and yes he is an idiot about them!  How am being silly about pointing out that Scaruffi is stupid to mention The Beatles haircuts were like comedien Ish Kibibbles?  You using The Rolling Stones songs as more blatant examples after I gave many Beatles song examples of sex and drugs, just sounds again like you are not a true fan! No matter what I point out you always try to discredit it!  Where would The Beatles have been without Bob Dylan,The Byrds and The Beach Boys? Well lets see it was Roger Mguin himself who admitted that after seeing The George Harrison playing his 12 string guitar,The Byrds started playing them! Brian Wilson said after he heard The Beatles Rubber Soul,he was blown away by it! He said all of the songs flowed together,and it was pop music but folk rock at the same time,and this is what he couldn't believe. He said this is what motivated him to make Pet Sounds!  And it's been said that Bob Dylan went electric because of The Beatles,so where would *they* all be without *them*!

 I  said I found many former Beatles haters on web sites by searching on google.com whats wrong with that I'm glad I found out about them! And I really resent you calling me fantatical when I am tyring to debunk his inaccrate ignorant Beatle hating crap that he's putting out there! >:( I have a good idea why don't you start to write with Scaruffi instead of being on this site!
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Joost

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2007, 02:39:20 PM »

People should realize that whenever a music critic writes something it's just the opinion of one individual person. A music critic's opinion is just as (un)important as anyone else's, the only difference is that music cricits have a platform.

I'm a music critic as well and whenever someone doesn't agree with one of my reviews I have a simple reply: your band sells 10/20/100 times as many records as my band, so why would you ever care?
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Kevin

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2007, 02:45:21 PM »

1) I apologize that my using of the word fanatical has upset you.
2) Life's too short to argue about other people's haircuts.
3). If being a true fan means I can't praise The Stones then I don't want to be one.
4) What's wrong with googling " I hate The Beatles" in order to track down nonbelievers? Um, er, nothing I guess. Unless.....
"You know Beatles haters use Scaruffi as a reference source something to keep in mind when you say you are a Beatles fan on a Beatles fan site!"
Ah The Beatle Haters. They're everywhere you know, watching, waiting......
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fanofthefab4

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2007, 02:47:06 PM »

Quote from: 56
People should realize that whenever a music critic writes something it's just the opinion of one individual person. A music critic's opinion is just as (un)important as anyone else's, the only difference is that music cricits have a platform.

I'm a music critic as well and whenever someone doesn't agree with one of my reviews I have a simple reply: your band sells 10/20/100 times as many records as my band, so why would you ever care?

Because in Saruffi's case as I already pointed out extensively it's not just an "opinion" he is really ignorant and misinformed and a biased Beatles hater! I have already pointed out the facts that show he's wrong!  If he said John Lennon had blonde hair and blue eyes would that be just an opinion or an incorrect statement?

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fanofthefab4

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2007, 02:51:28 PM »

Kevin unless what? I was curious to see if I would find out about people who had once hated them and became fans not to contact them,I never did I was just curious what would turn up if I typed in the seach engine"I used to Hate The Beatles" and I found out about many people. Maybe you are more of a Rolling Stones fan?  I wasn't the one arguing about The Beatles haircuts I was the one who pointed out how ridiculous Scaruffi is for mentioning it! You know you are giving me the same hassle  the anti-Beatles people who were listening to Scaruffi on the other site I had been on! I really didn't expect to get this here! I know  I'm not wrong at all I'm glad I found out about  the guy Tim on this  other site who said the Saruffi's Beatles page was a horrah and he didn't want to read that garbage again! And I found a few other people mentioning on a few other sites that Scaruffi's a Beatles hater who doesn't have a clue.
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Kevin

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2007, 02:59:50 PM »

Quote from: 524
Keven unless what? I was curious to see if I would find out about people who had once hated them and became fans not to contact them,I never did I was just curious what would turn up if I typed in the seach engine"I used to Hate The Beatles" and I found out about many people. Maybe you are more of a Rolling Stones fan?

Don't worry. If I have any kids I'll give them to Bobber so he can raise them proper.
Am I on some kind of list now?

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fanofthefab4

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2007, 03:04:51 PM »

What kind of list are you talking about Kevin?
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Kevin

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2007, 03:11:17 PM »

The kind of list someone invents when they're trying (and obviously failing) to be funny.
By the way, BP likes The Beach Boys more than The Beatles, so I think you should go for him first.
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Sondra

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2007, 06:01:30 PM »

I think debate is healthy, but remember to try and go easy on the sarcasm as it tends to offend. Especially with new members who may not know that it's only meant in a light hearted way.  :)
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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2007, 06:02:28 PM »

Quote from: 524


Not liking The Beatles for *good* reason? I hope you meant for no good reason! Because as we know there isn't any good reason not to like them except maybe a few songs. And otherwise it wouldn't make any sense with the rest of what you said. But everything else you said is so right on!  I have posted this on this site already but I'm going to tell you,that I have found  over 40  former Beatles haters on many different message  boards and web sites who are now big Beatles fans. I didn't communicate with them at all,but they wrote that they had a lot of misperceptions about them and  hadn't even heard most of their albums and  songs. Most people  of all ages love or at least like The Beatles worldwide,and most people don't hate them in the first place. But most people don't  go from hating a group to loving them and becoming big fans! This just really goes to show how great The Beatles really are!  If you type in quotes " I used to hate The Beatles" on the google.com search engine you will find these people.


Yeah it was a typing error, i meant 'no good reason'. I agree with kevin, these discussions are healthy, and even let us get down to the heart of why we really like the beatles pure music, and what's so great about them. But for me, the music stands as an argument for itself, we don't really need to do it. Like you said in one of your previous posts, just listen to rubber soul, abbey road, white album, MMT, ect. to see what i'm talking about, and if they dont care then, oh well that's them isn't it?
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Bobber

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2007, 07:28:52 PM »

Quote from: 185
If I have any kids I'll give them to Bobber so he can raise them proper.

I'm kind of expensive.
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Kevin

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2007, 09:19:36 AM »

Quote from: 216
I think debate is healthy, but remember to try and go easy on the sarcasm as it tends to offend. Especially with new members who may not know that it's only meant in a light hearted way.  :)

Yes. I think the moment got to me and I apologise to all concerned. I'll even do a  :B
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Kevin

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2007, 12:39:18 PM »

Only to show that Mr PS is neither original or alone in his thoughts, but I've just read a quote from Joe Meek, the "famous" producer, who in the 60's described The Beatles as "just another bunch of noise, copying other people's music."
I neither condone nor agree with that statement, but it seems he was fairly knowlegable and well thought of.
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Joost

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Re: Ignorant Inaccurate Things Popular Music Critic P
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2007, 01:58:11 PM »

"The Beatles are not merely awful. They are so unbelievably horrible, so appallingly unmusical, so dogmatically insensitive to the magic of the art, that they qualify as crowned heads of antimusic"
- William F. Buckley, Jr (Journalist)
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