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[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

As I did for the British Invasion bands, I wanted to make a list with the other important musical movement in the 1960's: the West Coast scene. I chose those bands from California that I consider were the most important ones. Again, I rate the bands being based on three parameters: popularity (P), songwriting (S), and technical ability (TA).

The list:

1. The Beach Boys P: 9 - S: 9 - TA: 7 - Average: 8.33
1. The Byrds P: 8 - S: 9 - TA: 8 - Average: 8.33
3. Jefferson Airplane P: 7 - S: 8 - TA: 9 - Average: 8.00
4. The Doors P: 8 - S: 8 - TA: 7 - Average: 7.67
4. Buffalo Springfield P: 7 - S: 8 - TA: 8 - Average: 7.67
6. Love P: 6 - S: 8 - TA: 8 - Average: 7.33

Note: I didn't include Frank Zappa because I don't dig his material and don't know how to rate him; the Grateful Dead was not relevant until the 1960's ended; and I like Moby Grape and Quicksilver Messenger Service but they had no national success in US.

[Joost]

I'm not sure if I agree with your TA rates. Does that go for just the instrumental TA, or for vocal (and maybe productional) TA as well? In the first case I agree with your 7 for The Beach Boys, in the second case it's certainly too low. And a 7 for The Doors? I think Ray Manzarek, Robbie Krieger and John Densmore were each excellent musicians. And why an 8 for The Byrds when their records were for a considerable part recorded by session musicians? And why do The Byrds get a 9 for songwriting? I checked my Very Best of The Byrds CD, and no less than 13 of the 27 songs are covers.

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

Thanks Joost for commenting and paying attention to my ratings. I might say that my ratings are made on base of a relative standard, as in my other thread the Beatles got 10 in popularity and songwriting and the Who got 10 in technical ability.

The Beach Boys. They got 7 in TA in comparison to the other bands. And yes, the vocals also count. But as good as their vocals were (surely the best in the West Coast), I think they weren't much better than the Byrds, Buffalo Springfield and even Jefferson Airplane as all these bands were better than the Beach Boys in playing their instruments.

The Doors. I guess we disagree here. I don't think that Ray Manzarek, Robbie Krieger and John Densmore were excellent musicians, they were just good and competent. Manzarek, in comparison to Rod Argent from the Zombies, sounds like a circus keyboardist to me; Krieger was far behind the best guitarists of the 1960's; Densmore was a decent drummer, but nothing special; and they didn't even have an own bass player. Not to mention Jim Morrison's vocals, he really had no range, despite being the main force of the band. No wonder why they went nowhere after Morrison's death. That said, I really enjoy all the 6 Doors albums made with Jim, but I wouldn't give them more points than I gave to them.

The Byrds. Maybe I was a bit biased here since I love them so much, but I'll try to expain my ratings. They didn't play their instruments only on some songs from their debut record (and McGuinn played his beloved 12-string guitar in every track). I admit they weren't virtuosos, that's why I rate them lower than Jefferson Airplane in TA, but they sound so good together. Roger McGuinn was the master of 12-string guitar; Chris Hillman was a great melodic bass player, in the spirit of Paul McCartney; and Mike Clarke's simple but effective drumming influenced several other drummers in the 1960's (even Ringo I think, from listening to his drumming in Rubber Soul). And their vocals, though not as complex as the Beach Boys, were highly inspiring. About their songwriting, it is true that they did several covers, especially Dylan's songs, but they had excellent songwriters as well. Gene Clark, despite being only in their first two albums, was a first rate songwriter; and Roger McGuinn, David Crosby and Chris Hillman were all good songwriters and each one gave strong contributions. On the other side, Brian Wilson, as great as he was, was almost the exclusive songwriter and ideologist in the Beach Boys. So I gave both bands a deserved 9 in songwriting.

[Joost]

The Beach Boys. They got 7 in TA in comparison to the other bands. And yes, the vocals also count. But as good as their vocals were (surely the best in the West Coast), I think they weren't much better than the Byrds, Buffalo Springfield and even Jefferson Airplane as all these bands were better than the Beach Boys in playing their instruments.

I personally do think The Beach Boys' vocals were much better than anyone else's. IMO, nobody came even close to those magical four part harmonies. And they had no less than six good lead singers in one band! No other band could beat that. Besides, although they weren't top class musicians, they were better musicians than most people assume. Carl Wilson could effortlessly copy Chuck Berry and Dick Dale riffs at age fourteen. Brian's a multi-instrumentalist who can play almost any instrument he picks up. Dennis Wilson was a raw and primitive, but very powerful drummer, and later on he became quite a good pianist. Bruce Johnston was a well-respected session musician before he joined The Beach Boys.

On the other side, Brian Wilson, as great as he was, was almost the exclusive songwriter and ideologist in the Beach Boys.

Only until about 1968/1969. Dennis, Carl, and Bruce (and to a lesser extend Al) wrote quite a lot of good stuff too in the late 60s and the 70s.

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

I personally do think The Beach Boys' vocals were much better than anyone else's. IMO, nobody came even close to those magical four part harmonies. And they had no less than six good lead singers in one band! No other band could beat that. Besides, although they weren't top class musicians, they were better musicians than most people assume. Carl Wilson could effortlessly copy Chuck Berry and Dick Dale riffs at age fourteen. Brian's a multi-instrumentalist who can play almost any instrument he picks up. Dennis Wilson was a raw and primitive, but very powerful drummer, and later on he became quite a good pianist. Bruce Johnston was a well-respected session musician before he joined The Beach Boys.

You're surely right. When I rate them at 7 in TA I didn't mean to give them a bad qualification, just not as good as most of the other bands I mentioned, but it's just my opinion. And I agree that noone could beat those harmonies, maybe I'm just glad with more simple harmonies like those from the Byrds or the Zombies, so I might not give the Beach Boys the full credit they deserve. But see, I'm not a huge fan of the Beach Boys (I still love Pet Sounds and all those well crafted singles from the 1960's), and they still got the same overall rating than the Byrds and even a higher rating than Jefferson Airplane, both very favourite bands of mine.

Only until about 1968/1969. Dennis, Carl, and Bruce (and to a lesser extend Al) wrote quite a lot of good stuff too in the late 60s and the 70s.

You should admit that the big time for the Beach Boys was the mid-60's with all those genius songs by Brian Wilson, but I see your point.