DM's Beatles forums
Beatles forums => Songs => Topic started by: JudeRigby on April 28, 2004, 10:48:57 PM
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I was just wondering if anyone had an opinion on what the song meant...my friend and I came up with a couple of reasonings: 1) They were just singing about how obscure people are. 2) Eleanor Rigby and Father McKenzie were having an affair...I may be completely opposite of the real idea but comments welcome.. ;D :D
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Paul had the music of the song written before the lyrics (which was common place). He came up with the verse "Picks up the rice in a church where a wedding has been" and formed the idea that the song would be about lonely people. As for Eleanor,,this was just a name that Paul liked (he said probably because of Eleanor Bron who he knew at the time) and Rigby was a name of a shop that Paul walked past.
Most of us know that Father McCartney was the original thought up name for the priest because it just fit the syllables, but paul didnt want to use McCartney because of his dad. John and Paul went to the phone book and looked at the next name in line after Mccartney,,,,hence McKenzie.
Nothing more to add. Just about lonely people.
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I read somewhere that there's actually an Eleanor Rigby buried in the Church's graveyeard where John met Paul in 1957 while playing for the Quarrymen.
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[quote by=Bruno link=Blah.pl?b=songs,m=1083192537,s=2 date=1083244871]I read somewhere that there's actually an Eleanor Rigby buried in the Church's graveyeard where John met Paul in 1957 while playing for the Quarrymen.[/quote]
Tis true.
Right next to Maxwell Edison's grave (not true) ;-)
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I understand the basis of the poem....but I was wondering about the lines about Father McKenzie...like "Father McKenzie, writing the words of a sermon that no one will hear, no one comes near.." and "Father McKenzie wiping his hands as he walks from the grave, no one was saved.." any ideas on these lines?
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(3) A funeral speech
Nobody heard; no one came.
Eleanor Rigby.
I was just browsing on google...and a page said that the song actually came from a series of haikus like this one..wtf? i'm confused..:(
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[quote by=Bruno link=Blah.pl?b=songs,m=1083192537,s=2 date=1083244871]I read somewhere that there's actually an Eleanor Rigby buried in the Church's graveyeard where John met Paul in 1957 while playing for the Quarrymen.[/quote]
And here it is...
This is the gravestone of Eleanor Rigby which was only discovered in the mid-Eighties in the grounds of St Peter's Church, Woolton, Liverpool. It was at a church-organised Garden Fete that John first met Paul on 6th July 1957.
(http://www.uploadit.org/TheEndUK/rigby.jpg)
A flyer for the garden fete where John and Paul first met.
(http://www.uploadit.org/TheEndUK/woolton.jpg)
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that's great, thanks Alan.
When Paul got asked if he chose the name 'Eleanor Rigby' based on that gravestone he said that he didn't know anything about it!! That's weird!
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Some other facts about this song:
-Paul McCartney got "Rigby" from the name of a store and "Eleanor" from actress Eleanor Bron. He liked the name "Eleanor Rigby" because it sounded natural.
-"Father Mackenzie" was originally "Father McCartney." Paul decided he didn't want to freak out his dad and picked a name out of the phone book instead.
-A string section of 4 violins, 2 violas and 2 cellos were used in recording. Paul may have been inspired by the classic composer Vivaldi.
-The Beatles didn't play any of the instruments on this. All the music came from the string players, who were hired as session musicians.
-The last verse was written in the studio.
-There is a gravestone for an Eleanor Rigby in St. Peter's Churchyard in Wooton, England.
This was originally written as "Miss Daisy Hawkins."
-The lyrics were brainstormed among The Beatles. In later years, Lennon and McCartney gave different accounts of who contributed more of the words to this.
-Microphones were placed very close to the instruments to create and unusual sound.
-Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin both had hits with cover versions of this.
-Because of the string section, this was difficult to play live, which The Beatles never did.
-On his 2002 Back In The US tour, Paul McCartney played this without the strings.
Keyboards were used to compensate.
-There is also a McKenzie gravestone in Woolton.
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Thats really relly interesting.... I wish someone would release a book on annotated beatles lyrics
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[quote by=Naoki link=Blah.pl?b=songs,m=1083192537,s=9 date=1085893245]Thats really relly interesting.... I wish someone would release a book on annotated beatles lyrics[/quote]
There's A HARD DAY'S WRITE, by Steve Turner, which gives "the stories behind every Beatles' song". It's a quite interesting book.
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thanks ill have to goto barnes & noble to see if i can find it! ^^
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i don't really know any of these inside scoops of the beatles so im so interested in this!
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stick around for a bevy of info
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[quote by=Maria link=Blah.pl?b=songs,m=1083192537,s=10 date=1085894656]
There's A HARD DAY'S WRITE, by Steve Turner, which gives "the stories behind every Beatles' song". It's a quite interesting book.[/quote]
Yeah i have this and there is a little on Rigby. Just lonely people I think. Good book though
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my uncle had a friend John Rigby, and his mom's name was Eleanor...kinda weird but cool ;)
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Nice work Bruno. Thanks for sharing. Is that book any good, Herecomesyoursun?
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-On his 2002 Back In The US tour, Paul McCartney played this without the strings.
Keyboards were used to compensate.
Oh goodness, it probably took me about 2- 3 hours to figure out the keyboard part.
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Some interesting things about her, don't know if it's been
posted here earlier... Here it is:
In the 1980s, a grave of an Eleanor Rigby was "discovered" in the graveyard of St. Peter's Parish Church in Woolton, Liverpool, and a few yards away from that, another tombstone with the last name McKenzie scrawled across it.[24][25] During their teenage years, McCartney and Lennon spent time "sunbathing" there, within earshot of where the two had met for the first time during a fete in 1957. Many years later McCartney stated that the strange coincidence between reality and lyric could be a product of his subconscious, rather than being a meaningless fluke.[24] The actual Eleanor Rigby was born in 1895 and lived in Liverpool, possibly in the suburb of Woolton, where she married a man named Thomas Woods. She died on 10 October 1939 at age 44. Whether this Eleanor was the inspiration for the song or not, her tombstone has become a landmark to Beatles fans visiting Liverpool.[26] A digitised version was added to the 1995 music video for The Beatles' reunion song "Free as a Bird".
In June 1990, McCartney donated a document dating from 1911 which had been signed by the 16-year-old Eleanor Rigby to Sunbeams Music Trust,[27] instantly attracting significant international interest from collectors because of the significance and provenance of the document.[28] The nearly 100-year-old document was sold at auction in November 2008 for £115,000 ($250,000).[29] The Daily Telegraph reported that the uncovered document "is a 97-year-old salary register from Liverpool City Hospital." The name E. Rigby is printed on the register, and she is identified as a scullery maid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Rigby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Rigby)
The gravestone:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rigby.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rigby.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1088454/REVEALED-The-haunting-life-story-pops-famous-songs--Eleanor-Rigby.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1088454/REVEALED-The-haunting-life-story-pops-famous-songs--Eleanor-Rigby.html)
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eleanor rigby,
picks up the rice in the church,
where her wedding has been,
lives in a dream.
the song is obviously a slam against religion.
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eleanor rigby,
picks up the rice in the church,
where her wedding has been,
lives in a dream.
the song is obviously a slam against religion.
I don't see how that's a slam against religion... :\
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I don't see how that's a slam against religion... :\
This is an example of why John wrote I Am The Walrus.
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Yeah I agree with you there Bobber!
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the song is obviously a slam against religion.
What?
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8pRqQ0g_Q1c/TEzE_QlSCWI/AAAAAAAAAHM/j5ehNmuHzH4/s1600/eleanorromance.jpg)
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I hear it and it makes me think about how insignificant people are. I mean, if you compare those people to The Beatles of course they don't matter. I think it takes the idea of fame and tells about how it makes ordinary people insignificant and forgotten.
Also, my teacher played for us the cover by Ray Charles- AMAZING!
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I don't see how that's a slam against religion... :\
pay attention.
it can be best described as a tragic bittersweet urban ballad, in the dorian mode, rather direct social commentary on organized religion.
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Very simply, musicologically and ethnically, The Beatles were essentially empirical melangists of a rhythmically radical yet verbally passé and temporarily transcended lyrical content, welded with historically innovative melodical material transposed and transmogrified by the angst of the Liverpool ethnic experience, which elevated them from essentially alpha exponents of, in essence, merely beta potential harmonic material, into the prime cultural exponents of Aeolian cadenzic cosmic stanza form.
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Here, let me simplify.
The song is not a knock against religion regardless of how somebody wants to twist it to fit their own delusions.
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([url]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8pRqQ0g_Q1c/TEzE_QlSCWI/AAAAAAAAAHM/j5ehNmuHzH4/s1600/eleanorromance.jpg[/url])
Better watch out for troubled priests! ;D
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Very simply, musicologically and ethnically, The Beatles were essentially empirical melangists of a rhythmically radical yet verbally passé and temporarily transcended lyrical content, welded with historically innovative melodical material transposed and transmogrified by the angst of the Liverpool ethnic experience, which elevated them from essentially alpha exponents of, in essence, merely beta potential harmonic material, into the prime cultural exponents of Aeolian cadenzic cosmic stanza form.
Did you quote yourself here? ;D
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Did you quote yourself here? ;D
gee whiz.. and i was gonna' dissect that monster. ha2ha
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(http://loc.rousefamily.com/leftofcentrist/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/rigby-grave.jpg)
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I say it's about cookies ;yes
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pay attention.
it can be best described as a tragic bittersweet urban ballad, in the dorian mode, rather direct social commentary on organized religion.
Of course!
Still don't see the slam against religion tho.
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the bubblegum pop cliche is totally useless here.
Paul McCartney himself makes an oblique reference to civil rights.
from: Zen and The Beatles' REVOLVER ([url]http://pages.cthome.net/tobelman/page08.htm[/url])
Brian Wilson's comment "Did you hear the Beatles' album? Religious, right?" is often pointed to as a sure sign of craziness. However, if we give REVOLVER the Zen treatment, Brian's comment makes sense(the touring Beatles cabled EMI from Japan with the album title, REVOLVER, a pun.)
"It might surprise a lot of people to think of the Beatles as religious, especially after John Lennon's supposedy anti-religious statement which caused so much furor....after the furor died down you could interpret Lennon's quote as just a mild rebuke of organized religion. Their song Eleanor Rigby is a similar criticism. And since the Beatles are writing songs along that line, and since George Harrison is going to India to study music (which is intimately connected with Indian philosophy and religion), and since..."
~Tom Nolan, "The Frenzied Frontier of Pop Music,"
Los Angeles Times WEST magazine, Nov.1966.
"Eleanor Rigby" is an unfavorable comment on traditional Western religion.
from : [url]http://www.thehypertexts.com/Best%20Songs%20Ever.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.thehypertexts.com/Best%20Songs%20Ever.htm[/url])
"Eleanor Rigby" is yet another haunting ghost story. In this ghost story, the ghosts were both dead while they were still alive, then one of the ghosts (Father McKenzie) buried the other ghost (Eleanor Rigby). This song contains powerful, moving commentary on the inadequacy of love and religion to make some people happy.
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i have to agree (and many people have) that this song contains commentaries on organized religion aka the church
specifically:
"writing the words to a sermon that no one will hear"
- i'd read several places that that was taken as a double meaning - the priest's lonliness- but also the declining membership / attendance of the church
this goes along with the bigger than jesus comment and was kind of a talked about issue in the mid 60s as the church started to lose social influence.
also, "no one was saved" was taken by some as an organized religion dig
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there are so many conflicting stories about the origins of eleanor rigby's lyrics . .
paul has said he was inspired by visiting old age homes as a child and seeing lonely elderly people....
john had claimed to write 70% of the lyrics.... paul and john's friend pete shotton refuted that... then there are accounts that george and ringo had a part in the lyrics....
ringo is accredited with "sermon that no one will hear" and "darning his socks"
george is accredited with "all the lonely people"
- the idea of the priest and eleanor both being in the last verse at eleanor's funeral was suggested by pete shotton, (according to paul)
supposedly paul's original concept had eleanor and the preist linking up romantically in the last verse
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kind of weird that there was a grave with the name but E.R. - with a grave marked mckenzie nearby and it was claimed to be a random combination of help actress eleanor brauns first name and a wine store named rigby . .with mckenzie being a name at random from a phone book etc etc etc
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awesome song
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Give My Regards to Broadstreet- Eleanor Rigby (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ-uOgVN0KA#ws)
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One of my favorite versions, but I love Kansas.
Kansas - Eleanor Rigby (with lyrics) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYhwaGpvB2s#)
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I don't see how that's a slam against religion... :\
I don't see it either.
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Simply complexly brilliant song
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-The lyrics were brainstormed among The Beatles.
there are so many conflicting stories about the origins of eleanor rigby's lyrics . .
paul has said he was inspired by visiting old age homes as a child and seeing lonely elderly people....
john had claimed to write 70% of the lyrics.... paul and john's friend pete shotton refuted that... then there are accounts that george and ringo had a part in the lyrics....
ringo is accredited with "sermon that no one will hear" and "darning his socks"
george is accredited with "all the lonely people"
- the idea of the priest and eleanor both being in the last verse at eleanor's funeral was suggested by pete shotton, (according to paul)
supposedly paul's original concept had eleanor and the preist linking up romantically in the last verse
awesome song
Therefore, I think the song should be credited to ALL the members of the band, so:
E. R. written by Paul McCartney, John Lennon, George Harrison & Ringo Starr, arranged & produced by George Martin. Joint effort - rather than Paul's 'solo' work.
But, the song is mainly known as Paul's (which it is - but the other band's members added their contribution).
Ringo & George each suggested a line to a song, so they have a credit for making the song so great.
(Yesterday was fully written by Paul BUT that one should be credited Martin - McCartney 'cause strings were G. M.'s idea.)
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Interesting. I have to admit that after reading hundreds of books about the Beatles, I never knew that Ringo and George may have contributed those lines. Or Pete Shotton's suggestion. Hmm...
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We can make a nice 'EP' with different official versions of the song. 8)
1. ER (Anthology 2 - instrumental)
2. ER (Revolver)
3. ER / Julia (from Love album)
4. ER (Yellow Submarine Songtrack album)
5. ER (from George Martin's album George Martin Instrumentally Salutes the Beatle Girls)
(The last one has a quite different arrangement and it is not sung by the Beatles - but it is a nice variation of the song.)
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I thought there isn't any connection between Doors and the Fab Four (except they both were great rock bands).
And then I hear this. Robby & Ray are playing 'Light My Fire' - and in the instrumental part of the song, Robby plays 'Eleanor'!!!
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of_I1F8vQg4#)
(It starts at 5:52, repeated till about 6:25).
Just wow! glassesslip
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^
Yay Robby! He's a true Beatles fan. icon_good
Nice find real01!!
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Simply complexly brilliant song
Works amazingly well as a standalone instrumental too.
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Works amazingly well as a standalone instrumental too.
Yes it does. It blew me away the first time I heard it and it continues to.
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Yes it does. It blew me away the first time I heard it and it continues to.
Yep. Track 21 on Anthology 2.
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^^^
Now you've done it...I have to listen to it. ;)
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I do wonder if it can really be a complete coincidence about the gravestone at St Peter's Church. I mean how many other church's around Britain would you find another example of what is not I guess a common name? Thinking about it McCartney did pay a visit to his old home just a few months before the recording of Revolver when he went to see his dad which is a short hop away. His trip included the now infamous scooter accident. Is it possible he made a visit to the church?
I also remember reading perhaps in Pete Shotton's book that Lennon was really p*ssed off with Paul for asking pretty much everyone (including Mal) for help on the lyrics apart from him. He was really hurt by it.
Yesterday was fully written by Paul BUT that one should be credited Martin - McCartney 'cause strings were G. M.'s idea.)
That's not how songwriting credits work. Strings are an embellishment and not part of the song itself.
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I do wonder if it can really be a complete coincidence about the gravestone at St Peter's Church. I mean how many other church's around Britain would you find another example of what is not I guess a common name? Thinking about it McCartney did pay a visit to his old home just a few months before the recording of Revolver when he went to see his dad which is a short hop away. His trip included the now infamous scooter accident. Is it possible he made a visit to the church?
It doesn't seem likely to be a coincidence. Especially with what I presume was not an everyday name. If it was Elizabeth Smith or something you could write that off to coincidence. I think it's fair to assume that Paul had seen the grave at some point. He didn't have to think consciously of it when writing. Just have it lodged somewhere in his head that came out when he needed a five syllable name that sounded authentic.
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I think this is Paul's greatest song.
Bobber: What did you mean by "This is why John wrote 'I am the Walrus'?"