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Author Topic: What led John to heroin?  (Read 26234 times)

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Mr. Mustard

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What led John to heroin?
« on: June 05, 2008, 10:58:15 PM »

We all know the stories and legends about the Beatles' introduction to drugs:  in Hamburg it was amphetamines to fuel their performances; they smoked pot for the first time with Bob Dylan; a friendly but sinister dentist spiked the coffee of John, George, Cynthia and Pattie with LSD.

But how did John Lennon make the leap to heroin?  It seems to have happened sometime between the return from India in '68 and the beginning of the White Album recording sessions (maybe even during the sessions), when he and Yoko became a full-time item.  Is there any story about how this transpired?

And how addicted could John have been, if, in 1969, he was hosting two separate week-long press conferences during his bed-ins with Yoko -- he probably wasn't doing any smack during these events and hiding his usage and subsequent strung-out behaviour from the world press.  

I've always been curious about the John-heroin phase.
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HeatherBoo

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 11:44:32 PM »

I don't know a whole lot about this subject.  But I am going to guess that maybe he was just partying and someone had it and he tried it.  Pretty much like all the other drugs.  When you are a high roller in a world of high rollers, they like to party and party hard and they have the money to do it.  

But I know what you mean, because there is a huge difference between pot, lsd, even the amphetamine pills (I am assuming they were like ephedrine, like the diet pills??).  Heroin is the big leagues.  Very dangerous stuff.
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Mr. Mustard

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 02:03:54 AM »

Yeah, there was always a sense of 'innocence' in all the Beatles' drug initiation stories, but even John, in 1968 and within weeks of coming off a drug-free hiatus in India, at some point made the decision to try smack.  Maybe he was frying when he did it, but he probably can't claim he was 'dosed' without his knowledge, can he?

Could it have been Yoko?

And I remember in some Beatle bio that Yoko confided to someone that she was afraid of John getting her hooked on heroin (gotta love that John -- brilliant musician but not great boyfriend material) while it would be easy for him to kick the habit but not her.  Then, in '69 he's off smack and has written a solo single to describe it.  Heroin didn't seem to negatively impact John Lennon's life the way it did Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Ray Charles, Elvis, and many others.

So I guess what I'm asking is, was John a heroin addict or just a recreational user?  And what exactly is a 'recreational' user of heroin?  

This may not be the most pleasant topic of discussion, but any insights are welcome.
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HeatherBoo

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 02:34:34 AM »

I have yet to meet someone who was a recreational user of heroin.  Although I will say that I do know some people who have tried and it and did not get hooked...but they tried it like once.  But I know far more people who tried it and stayed on it...and have either died from it or might as well be dead because  their quality of life is so terrible.  The few people I know who are "off" heroin are not using heroin but are using methadone which is a synthetic heroin anyways.  But at least they use that and can function and have a normal life in regular society.

So I wonder how oftern John used? Maybe he was able to keep it under control.  Like I said I think its pretty rare but I am sure there are people out there that can control  their habits even with a powerful drug like heroin.
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aspinall_lover

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 04:36:27 PM »

Have any of you seen the dvd, "The Rolling Stones' Rock and Roll Circus" from 1968???  John and Yoko were in that movie, and John was definitely "wasted" on the show and it was NOT from smoking pot.  Definitely heroin.  But I can't believe he was a "recreational user".  If he was, which he was, John was a stronger person than Clapton or Page.
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Mr. Mustard

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2008, 06:59:23 PM »

The local PBS station acquired the Rolling Stones' Circus show and have shown it frequently in the last year or two, and the date of its filming (late 1968) falls right into the time when John was reportedly doing the H.

I don't think he was a 'recreational' user either, based on what he described in "Cold Turkey."  But his heroin addiction seemed relatively brief -- a year, give or take?
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Mr. Mustard

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2008, 07:03:20 PM »

And I have no idea why there is a smilie instead of the number 8 in my previous post.  (1968, it's supposed to say.)
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alexis

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2008, 07:06:18 PM »

Quote from: 1333
And I have no idea why there is a smilie instead of the number 8 in my previous post.  (1968, it's supposed to say.)

The reason is that an "eight" followed by a ")" gives a smilie. We gotta put a space before the ")" to avoid the smilie  :)
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Geoff

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 08:47:40 PM »

I may have this wrong, but it seems to me that John blamed his heroin addiction on the reaction he got to his relationship with Yoko. The public was hostile both to the idea of him divorcing and to Yoko personally, and the other Beatles were understandably taken aback when John began presenting himself as one half of John-and-Yoko and started bringing her along to The Beatles' recording sessions. Rejection led to addiction, or so the argument ran.

I think John was an addict by the end of '68 or early '69, and he got off it a year or so later. His first solo album, Plastic Ono Band, is as much a junkie's withdrawal howl as it is Arthur Janov-induced "primal therapy," I think.  
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Bobber

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 08:55:32 PM »

Well, when did Cold Turkey come out? That must have been towards the end of his addiction. I once read somewhere that people in the sixties didn't know much about the dangers of drugs, at least not as much as we know today. Those were the days that rockstars died of an overdose (Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin) instead of growing old and grumpy. There was a lot of experimentation.
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DaveRam

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 11:03:56 PM »

I've a friend  who's a smackhead , it's taken 18 month's or so for his habbit to spiral out of control .
All i can add to this conversation is if he was a dog you would humanely put him down .
John was lucky i suppose  and rich enough to get himself free of the sh*te that is heroin . My once good mate is now a nightmare who will say and do anything to get his next fix .
Me and his other friends and family have tried everything to help him but to know avail , i now think death can't come quick enough to free him .
And i know that may sound shocking , but it would be a blessed release for him . He's that far gone .
All we have left of him is memories of a once happy go lucky lad who was the life and soul of any gathering .
I just find it really upsetting . Having done my fair share of recreational drugs i'm thankful i'm a strong enough person to steer clear of this truely appalling drug .
It 's got nothing to offer anybody , you might as well put a rope round your neck as touch it .
The sad thing is individuals  families and friends everywhere are been affected by this drug , my advice is don't go there it really is not worth it .
All i no is i will be stood at a graveside soon feeling like i've failed a friend .
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 11:25:42 PM »

Thanks for the insightful story Dave...I have seen it take over towns and take away once good people.  At least 3 people I knew. Not one to flirt with thats for sure. Screw creativity if you have to go through that to get it.
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aspinall_lover

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2008, 11:43:58 PM »

With all this said about John, I have only one question to ask:
Why is Keith Richards still living????  I thought he died 25 years ago and the Stones just "prop" his corspe up on stage when they tour................. ;D
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HeatherBoo

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 12:07:05 AM »

Quote from: 1255
With all this said about John, I have only one question to ask:
Why is Keith Richards still living????  I thought he died 25 years ago and the Stones just "prop" his corspe up on stage when they tour................. ;D


Seriously! one look at him and you know he treated his body terribly! They should have his face on the anti-drug campaigns...Kids this is why you should never use drugs!!!

on a more serious note, DaveRam, I totally understand your story.  I have/had family members and close friends addicted to heroin (among other nasty drugs), and when they get to be so far gone, the quality of life is near nothing.  You want them to get better and help but they wont.  They have to do it for themselves.  It is a really sad situation....
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aspinall_lover

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 12:46:12 AM »

^^^I've got a girlfriend that lives on Cape Cod and she's back on "the smack".  I haven't heard from her in over a year.  It's sad.............
And yep, Keith Richards should be the "poster child" for, "This is what drugs do to you".
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Mr. Mustard

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2008, 01:12:27 AM »

Oddly, after all he abused himself, Keith Richards is probably as fit as any 65-ish person out there (except for Mick, of course).  He always said he was from strong stock.  The guy's still climbing trees and falling out of them!
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HeatherBoo

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2008, 01:23:35 AM »

I think Mick has been 70 pounds the last 50 years!
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Bobber

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2008, 07:58:55 AM »

Quote from: 1333
Oddly, after all he abused himself, Keith Richards is probably as fit as any 65-ish person out there (except for Mick, of course).  He always said he was from strong stock.  The guy's still climbing trees and falling out of them!

Keith's blood is refreshed every year.
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legthi

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2008, 10:40:08 AM »

Quote from: 1255
^^^I've got a girlfriend that lives on Cape Cod and she's back on "the smack".  I haven't heard from her in over a year.  It's sad.............
And yep, Keith Richards should be the "poster child" for, "This is what drugs do to you".


Bill Hicks used this argument the other way round:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwBABYMq9PQ" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwBABYMq9PQ</a>


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Andy Smith

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Re: What led John to heroin?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2008, 01:46:11 PM »

Quote from: 1255
Why is Keith Richards still living???? D

that man will outlive the human race!  ;D

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