I really don't have the energy for this at the moment.
Sorry guys for the delay. Some kind of flu is taking some time here.
It lasts about a month in total.I had it too. You think you feel better but then you go down again. Up- down, about a month!
I had it too. You think you feel better but then you go down again. Up- down, about a month!
Thanks for cheering me up. ;)This too shall pass!
sh*t. I was busy typing my review when I accidently clicked it away. Grmblr! Will try again later.We're waiting with baited breath! : )
Great review, Cor, even though I disagree with most of it. I'll post mine soon.
Even The Wedding Album has got more views till now.You mean it's been knocked off the bottom!?
It's very difficult to listen to.
Good God, a Lennon album I like.
This is not an easy listen, but then it's not supposed to be. And if the songs give us a look into a paranoid, self pitying self-obssessed mind then all the better, because that seems to have been his exact state of mind at the time. And if this album is about anything it's about honesty, however distorted or misplaced that may seem in retrospect.
Like Pepper, it's one of those albums where the individula songs don't really matter.
Explain.
If someone were to ask what one single Beatles solo album should they own, I'd say this one.
Because he's a miserable git and it suits his mood.
What's this 'honesty' thing? Is Working Class Hero an honest song? Or Isolation?I guess I mean that Lennon felt himself a working class hero. (whether he was or not doesn't really matter.)
I too lost my mum at 5 and I'm not torn apart. But different people deal with things in different ways.
But again, I don't want to defend Johns emotions. He was a self pitying self obsessive, but i think he honestly believed this, however misguidingly.
I can't believe he was putting it on.
And I can't believe I'm defending John bl**dy Lennon.
Great review Cor and its good to hear from Kevin again. The contrast here is interesting. You have one camp that enjoys the emotions and 'honesty' of the album, and then we have the other camp that thinks John pulled the wool over their eye's. I fall into into the second side. I think John wanted us to think he was that screwed up and emotionally distraught most of the time. He lays it on so thick that I cant take him seriously. Here we have a 30 year old man that has very few to no memories of his mother and father and he's coming across as being so mentally tore up about it that he can barely handle it. Seriously? I dont believe him. I lost my father 10 years ago, and although I miss him, I feel i'm doing alright. Of course we also have to take into account of how he's the social recluse and the loaner. Yeah, nobody liked poor John and he felt alone. Again, give me a break. I dont have the energy to go into anymore detail. If I could say one thing about John Lennon, it would be that he was one hell of an actor.
...we all lose our parents but my parents wanted me when I was a child, they nurtured me and loved me (as I hope yours did) Johns parents simply didnt want him, they didnt want to live with him, Julia gave him to Mimi, his Dad f***ed off to sea, he spent his early (and adolescence) childhood knowing his parents didnt want him.....
I cant help feeling your missing the point here Todd..........like you Ive lost my Dad (and my Mum), we all lose our parents but my parents wanted me when I was a child, they nurtured me and loved me (as I hope yours did) Johns parents simply didnt want him, they didnt want to live with him, Julia gave him to Mimi, his Dad f***ed off to sea, he spent his early (and adolescence) childhood knowing his parents didnt want him.....thats way different that your loving parents dying.
Also, I dont know if you have read about Primal Therapy, but the whole point of the course is to feel self pity, you are encouraged to be angry at your parents and feel self pity (like in the song Mother), its a concept you have to grasp before slating the song lyrically.
I suppose I am missing the point to some extent. I never take into account that John was doing his goofy primal scream therapy and I guess he's written these songs in accordance to that. It makes more sense in that fact, but I cant agree with the theory behind it all. Was it Yoko who convinced John to attend these sessions? I ask, because if John went on his own dime then he was still feeling emotionally screwed up about his childhood. I guess i'm speaking for myself, but if my mother and father didnt want me, then f*** them. I wouldnt sit around moping about it for the rest of my life.
Maybe I just need to read up on the whole album again as its been years and I havent had much interest in it. Its just not a good listen for me. Its the exact opposite actually, but thats what he was shooting for in the end right?
His life wasn't easy.
you have to try to put himself in his position
Care to elaborate on this Barry? He lived better then the other three even if his parents werent around. Lets not forget that we're talking about a guy who had the world by the balls at age 18. He didnt have it very bad in my opinion.
It's still hard for me to believe he held onto all that anger for all that time. I couldnt do it.
Todd, I'm not talking about his artistc capabilities or his financial status. I was referring to his emotional state. Do we really know what troubled him? Were any of us close to him? Each of us are troubled by something. And each of us react to similar circumstances in different ways. If John let out his feelings the way he did at that point in his life, there was a reason for it. I can only take what he had to say at face value and not speculate as to his motives.
I understand. It seems a lot of people jump on the John bandwagon because he was the emotional one or the rebel. Its just too much for me to jump on board. Its almost exhausting. Nobody should take life that seriously.
My 2nd favourite solo Beatle album.I feel pretty much the same about John's solo work. He just wrote what he had in mind and you know when you listen to his records, how and what he was feeling right then.
One of the things I like about Johns music is that he always wrote and sang about what was in his head at that time (like a diary), a kind of social commentary on what he thought about certain issues, sometimes his views may have been misguided but he was always honest about the subject he wrote about, every song on this and Imagine is a dialogue of his thoughts on whatever was going on, it doesnt really matter if you agree with him, but he's being honest in his songs and he's saying something, using his songs as a vehicle to express opinion.
My problem with Pauls albums is always the opposite of this, I have absolutely no idea what Paul is singing about most of the time, I dont know what a Monkberry Moon delight is, or a C Moon, or why he says he is a Bluebird, or why his band is on the run, it all sounds very 'twee' to me, a pity, as Paul WAS capable of writing great lyrics when he could be bothered.......Ive always been a lyrics fan and I love it when artists have something to say,
I actually dont think there are that many artists that could have written this album, its not easy to kind of bare your soul to millions of people in an attempt to tell the world what is wrong with you, but I dont think anyone can imagine what its like to have parents who dont want you, after all when you a little child, your parents are THE most important people in your life, they are your rock which your whole being is pivoted on, you want them to love you and care for you, I simply cant imagine what it must be like if the opposite applies.
Good on John for releasing this pain in music and exorcising those inner feelings of inadequacy, and for wanting 'his' truth to be told.
Why is POB a personal album?
Why is this album more personal than any other album?
also his feelings about people he admired like Elvis & Dylan & Jesus,
Todd, I'm not talking about his artistc capabilities or his financial status. I was referring to his emotional state. Do we really know what troubled him? Were any of us close to him? Each of us are troubled by something. And each of us react to similar circumstances in different ways. If John let out his feelings the way he did at that point in his life, there was a reason for it.Well said Barry, I fully agree on that :)
because he is singing about his feelings for his parents in a very direct way, he is telling us in no uncertain terms what his feelings are about them, also his feelings about other people who were closest to him, also his feelings about people he admired like Elvis & Dylan & Jesus, I can think of no other album where the artist lays out his feelings about the people in his life so plainly & directly.My point is: how do you know these feelings are genuine?
I dont see how an album like McCartney is giving out a personal vibe at all, all he tells us is that he loves Linda, and he's amazed by it.....well surprise surprise, Id never have guessed that Paul !!
When he sings about Kreena Kroori (spelling) what is he saying about them ? that he loves them ? or hates them ? he sings a song about an unknown boy called Ted, who exactly is Ted ? theres a track called Junk, how is that personal ? does he like walking around rubbish dumps looking at stuff ? what is Glasses all about ? I dont see much about this album that is personal except he thinks Linda is lovely....thats all he's telling us
Its like your both constantly trying to undermine everything about John & his music.
John had been busy with this primal scream thing and it shows on the album he was making at that time. I'd rather wish he had done a laugh therapy, but that's just me.
Its like your both constantly trying to undermine everything about John & his music.Absolutely; it's plain to see and this isn't motivating for other members.
Absolutely; it's plain to see and this isn't motivating for other members.
Snoopy
Absolutely; it's plain to see and this isn't motivating for other members.
Snoopy
So if somebody doesnt agree or hold a John Lennon effort in high regard, it is bringing other members down? Everybody agreeing is the only healthy conversation around here? Please. Dont let the door hit you on the way out.
theres a track called Junk, how is that personal ? does he like walking around rubbish dumps looking at stuff ?
Wait! I like that song! ;D
Your missing the point again Todd, It doesnt matter whether you like POB, I dont like a lot of Pauls solo albums...but I still love the guy immensely for the pleasure he has given me over my lifetime, I dont like Ringo's album's or Cloud Nine, but I still love the guys who made them....why ? because Im primarily a Beatle fan, I will always love all 4 guys...........with you and Cor its different, you not only dont like Johns albums or solo stuff (nothing wrong with that) but you rubbish his whole persona, you call him an actor, you infer that he was a person who was only interested in public sympathy, you attack him at every opportunity, youve stated before that you think 95% of his music is sh*t, I dont know why you hate the guy so much, is it because he says he doesnt believe in Jesus ? or that God is a concept ? I know you are a religious man.
I believe in God too but I dont dislike someone who is an atheist or non believer, they are entitled to their beliefs imo. (just as I am)
I knew the way Johns microscopes would go and I wasnt looking forward to these threads, each album would be rubbished and Johns persona would come into question........I think these solo album threads should just adhere to what we think of the music on them, not use them as a tool to berate John Lennon and make out he was a complete hypocrite and totally horrible guy who duped his fans by using his acting talent. Its quite insulting to us fans of The Beatles.
The fact is John gave pleasure to millions & millions of people the world over, how about giving him some credit for once for his achievements.
I must say Todd I dont like the remark youve made to Snoopy, inviting her to leave the forum, its nasty and uncalled for. I hope Snoopy doesnt leave she's entitled to her opinion, and as far as I can see she hasnt personally insulted anyone (as you have done to various members in the past)..........and Cor I would have thought you would care if members like snoopy post or dont post, isnt it admins job to encourage members to comment and be active ?
anyway, to cap things off, by all means criticize the music on POB or Imagine or Sometime in NYC no-one says you have to like them, but can we have less of the 'I hate John' campaign, we all know how you feel about him, you dont have to keep telling us.
I hope you wont ask me to leave the forum Todd, I still like you, I havent fallen out with you but I have to complain about the way you & Cor are using these threads.
I think John wanted us to think he was that screwed up and emotionally distraught most of the time. He lays it on so thick that I cant take him seriously
Here we have a 30 year old man that has very few to no memories of his mother and father and he's coming across as being so mentally tore up about it that he can barely handle it. Seriously? I dont believe him.
Yeah, nobody liked poor John and he felt alone. Again, give me a break
I dont have the energy to go into anymore detail. If I could say one thing about John Lennon, it would be that he was one hell of an actor.
hi guys..
Just want to say that from my humble point of view liking Beatle music doesn't mean I have to like The Beatles as people.
Plastic Ono Band should be acknowledged, understood, even respected. But how the hell anyone can enjoy this mess is beyond me. Clearly, there are an awful lot of people who DO like it (check the RS number!), but I just cannot get into that mindset, which is something I can't say about any other album. There are those who have claimed you need to be deeply depressed, or have experienced mental instability, to truly love this record. Thing is, I've experienced both, and I still hate it. Everything from the production (shoddy at best), to the basslines (plodding and bored), to the piano parts (far too simplistic), to the lyrics (truly awful), is shockingly bad. Had anyone other than John Lennon recorded this, it'd have been immediately dismissed and forgotten. Hell, it probably wouldn't even have been released. I guess that sort of critical blindness is the perk of being a former Beatle. Even John himself seemed desperate to forget this, returning immediately to the sound he was famous for on "Imagine".
John Lennon is undoubtedly capable of writing deeply personal, cutting, great songs (see "Help!" and "Jealous Guy" ). Here, he fails to do so, time and time again. What Lennon failed to realize is that there are far better ways to express your anger than throwing a tantrum. Ever heard anyone say that Yoko Ono ruined John Lennon? They were lying. It was Dr. Arthur Janov. Here's your proof.
Here's the end results of a review by Nick Butler at Sputnik Music. He says what I tried to, but couldnt find the words.
Yeah, screw these microscope threads. Its obvious if you dont care for a record by John your going to get crucified around here.
For my remarks to snoopy I have nothing against her and I wasn't asking her to leave the forum. I was suggesting to leave the thread if it bothered her so much.
I have resigned from my administrator status.That's the best thing you could do, thank's :laugh:
That's the best thing you could do, thank's :laugh:
Snoopy
Well this has turned into a bunch of cr*p hasn't it. Good grief. I was only here 5 minutes. And we're only arguing about pop music - what would you guys be like over something actually serious?
TK things Lennon is a charlton. Bobber can't stand POB. Great. I don't think he was and I do. Isn't that why we come here. Don't know about you guys but I couldn't strike up a discussion about Beatle albums with the wife.
One final thing Lennonists - if John is going to make a "personal" album then ipso facto people are going to talk about his personality. Aren't they?
As for being falsely accused Cor, It has to be said these John microscope threads are a complete joke, there is no thought at all gone into yours or Todds reviews, they look like they were written by a 12 year old to me reviewing his parents records that he hates.........'this is sh*t,' etc etc ........come on, what hope is there of building constructive comment where its all based around comments like these ?
and as for you quiting your 'job' as admin, why would you do that ? are you so sensitive you cant stand criticism ? also imo if you are going to leave the forum then just stop posting and leave, why announce it several times in separate posts ?
Anyway I dont know why your freaking out over this after all you did say on page 1 of this review
' I want to see some fireworks in this thread.' :D
This is pure bullsh*t. First off, take the time to separate what I said from what Cor said. I was the one that said Lennon was as an actor and I still believe it. Whatever he could do to get a rise. He preys on human stupidity and its never been more obvious then this thread. Secondly, you think Cor and my reviews are a joke and thats only because they arent what you want to see. If I said the music is sh*t, then I think it is. Sorry I cant make you happy by praising the album because your idol wrote it.
Your asking Cor why he's about to leave after you've attacked the guy since his review? Wow.
Obviously not allowed
ahh so now Im stupid for liking John Lennon ?
In case you hadnt noticed Todd, this is a Beatle s forum, in praise of The Beatles, if you come on here calling John Lennon a phoney who preys on human stupidity, your going to upset somebody and maybe get some flak (which you obviously dont like)
Cors 'microscope threads' are f***ing abysmal, just a slagfest of all that is Lennon, and you seem to goad him on to disparage them even further, it seems there is no boundaries to your hatred of John Lennon
...I offered to do the lennon microscope thread but Cor told me he was doing them, If I was doing them I would have written a few hundred words, I wouldnt have praised the early albums because I wasn't a fan of them but I would have tried to understand what was going on in his head at that time and I would have tried to formulate a cohesive appraisal of things like the gig he did with Clapton, how it came about, that he did that gig and how it came over as an album, a kind of review that might stimulate grown up discussion in a cohesive way......not just wooden off handish remarks like 'the drummer didnt sound interested'
Anyway, its a big difference of opinion, its not serious , no-one died, Im disappointed you calling me stupid for liking John Lennon Todd, I thought we were above personal insults, but if that is what you feel then so be it.
Well it seems to be getting pretty f***ing serious. Serious enough that the most active and respected person on the forum damn near left. I didnt call you stupid, but I see that it came across like that. Sorry.
The Beatles were just four guys that made some music and I dont like all of that music or even how some of them acted all the time. I'm sorry, but they arent anything more then that to me.
upon saying all this I know you and Cor are joined at the hip so Im just p*ssing in the proverbial wind here..
Then it begs the why are you on a Beatle fan forum ?
are you here to wind people like me up by insinuating they are stupid for being a John Lennon fan ?
Im here because I adore The Beatles.........all 4 of them, to me they are/were monumentally great, nothing is better that The Beatles, I owe them heaps,
what they did was Genius level..........any musician in the world wouldve given their 4 wisdom teeth to be in that 'Bar Room group' as you call it of John Lennons...........dont you realize that ? all John ever had to do was make a call.........all the Claptons, Pages, Becks, Kieth Richards wouldve done anything to be in Lennons or McCartneys band..........not because these guys were good actors but because they were Beatles and they were the best of the best.
As for being falsely accused Cor, It has to be said these John microscope threads are a complete joke, there is no thought at all gone into yours or Todds reviews, they look like they were written by a 12 year old to me reviewing his parents records that he hates.........'this is sh*t,' etc etc
Yes, this place is amazing, amazing due to its members.I think your english is very good and I understood what you said completly. I also agree with what you said as well. Lets keep things civil and respectful. In an awsome forum like this one personal digs have a heightened effect and tend to be a real turn off. True, emotions do get raised from time to time for different reasons but... shake hands, get over it and let's move on!
I can't get why adults behave like children - fighting and insulting. I know, we all like children from time to time; and maybe that’s why all wars begin? Me personally, from time to time I say various foolish things. Maybe because I'm not clever enough, maybe I don't informed well on a situation, or maybe I just don't know English well. I don't care much, to be true. And maybe even now I'm saying nonsense…
When Cor said to me he's gonna leave I answered him that then a dictatorship will be established here. I made this place in 2001 to let people discuss but not fight. I was a Beatles fan, now I’m not, but I keep this place (web hosting, progamms, etc.). I posted a lot and banned everyone who insults others without much investigation, now Cor and mods help me. I had plans to make some money, but now I know that it is impossible to make any real money here, so now the forums pay for itself only, and I keep this place.
Please respect each other and before answering something personal think if it worth it. You know what I’m thinking about? Not asking your opinion on it, but just thinking about. I’m gonna close the forums for a week or two. And during this couple of weeks we all became friends again because we’ll miss each other and this place. Won't we? ;) It isn’t a decision yet, just thoughts.(Sorry for my English? ha2ha)
I think this is a very, very ignorant thing to say.
I agree. A dumb thing to say. You just lost a lot of credibilty.
Ok guys Ive thought about this all day, Cor has been around here a lot longer than me (so has Todd) I feel like Im wrecking the vibe around here and my posts are not welcome, I get it ;sorry...... theres no need to quit Cor, I will go, I wont post again.
Ive enjoyed being on here and getting to know some nice people, its been very nice (sincerley).
Kevin
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Sissies
That's a personal attack.
For my part in this I apologise for being over the top with rudeness (Todd & Cor) I realise now Ive had a bad week with the recovery for surgery, Ive pushed myself a bit too much in the physio and then gotten frustrated that I cant do certain things yet and its such a long & slow process, I think this has led to a level of impatience and made me a little depressed that its all taking so long, also everyone is at work and Im 'home alone' a lot of the time still unable to drive etc so getting frustrated with that also.............not making excuses or looking for sympathy but sometimes these things affect you in unexpected ways..
I'll take a bit of time off the forum till I feel more myself.
For my part in this I apologise for being over the top with rudeness (Todd & Cor) I realise now Ive had a bad week with the recovery for surgery, Ive pushed myself a bit too much in the physio and then gotten frustrated that I cant do certain things yet and its such a long & slow process, I think this has led to a level of impatience and made me a little depressed that its all taking so long, also everyone is at work and Im 'home alone' a lot of the time still unable to drive etc so getting frustrated with that also.............not making excuses or looking for sympathy but sometimes these things affect you in unexpected ways..Not too long though!
I'll take a bit of time off the forum till I feel more myself.
For my part in this I apologise for being over the top with rudeness (Todd & Cor) I realise now Ive had a bad week with the recovery for surgery, Ive pushed myself a bit too much in the physio and then gotten frustrated that I cant do certain things yet and its such a long & slow process, I think this has led to a level of impatience and made me a little depressed that its all taking so long, also everyone is at work and Im 'home alone' a lot of the time still unable to drive etc so getting frustrated with that also.............not making excuses or looking for sympathy but sometimes these things affect you in unexpected ways..
I'll take a bit of time off the forum till I feel more myself.
And the standard of reviewing has gone down for these John one's too. I know I haven't done a real review like I did for a few Paul albums giving the exact second when a cool little bit or sound or change or whatever occurs but that's because I need to listen aloud to the tracks whilst annotating and I simply haven't had the chance to do that yet. I shall come back and fix it or maybe I wont.
Yo b****.
Is Back To The Egg better than Plastic Ono Band?
And where did your ancestral monkeys come from?