DM's Beatles forums
Solo forums => John Lennon => Microscopes => Topic started by: Bobber on August 06, 2014, 12:44:33 PM
-
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/11/JohnLennon-albums-mindgames.jpg)
Mind Games
From Wikipedia: By the start of 1973, John Lennon began distancing himself from the political and social issues he had embraced in the previous 18 months. It was also around this time that he and his wife, Yoko Ono, were going through marital problems. As Ono was completing her fourth album, Feeling the Space, Lennon decided he also wanted to record a new album, and liked the studio musicians that their assistant and production coordinator May Pang had assembled for Ono's album. Shortly thereafter, he asked Pang to book them for his sessions. Wanting to produce an album that would be more accepted than his previous politically charged commercial flop Some Time in New York City, Lennon began writing and demoing a few songs for Mind Games in his Greenwich Village apartment. He began composing after a period of almost a year of not writing any material. Amid frequent court appearances battling to stay in the US, Lennon became stressed, a situation that was only worsened by constant surveillance by the FBI, due to his political activism. Lennon said "I just couldn't function, you know? I was so paranoid from them tappin' the phone and followin' me." All this combined made Lennon begin to feel emotionally withdrawn. Lennon put his suffering aside to write the songs for Mind Games, writing all the songs for it in a week.
Under the moniker of "The Plastic U.F.Ono Band", Lennon engaged the services of session drummer Jim Keltner, guitarist David Spinozza, Gordon Edwards on bass, Arthur Jenkins on percussion, Michael Brecker on saxophone, Ken Ascher on piano and organ, and the vocal backing of a group called Something Different. Difficulties between Lennon and Ono became more and more noticeable around this time. Just as the sessions were to get under way in June at New York's Record Plant Studios, John and Yoko separated. At Ono's urging, Pang became Lennon's companion and lover in what would become an 18-month relationship later renowned as Lennon's 'lost weekend'. Ends wikipedia.
01 Mind Games
The opening track is a refreshing song. That is, it’s refreshing to hear John really in a solo album, without the annoying interference of Mrs Lennon. John is obviously still in his peace period (Chanting the mantra peace on earth), but it’s alright and the message is brought to us in a more, erm, peaceful way. John’s voice is alright, although he tends to kill his voice in the chorus (1.30 for instance). The song has a nice hook produced by the electric guitar.
There’s not really something building up in this song, despite a nice drumfill at 2.07. Later on in the song, John sounds as if he’s struggling to sing the song properly (3.20). Anomalie at 3.26 when John is starting to sing in the right ear (so keep on playing those), following on the other side with the rest of the chorus. Nice ending from 3.40.
The song sounds somewhat thin. It could be my headphones, but a bit more bass in the mix should be welcome. Not a bad song at all, but then it was started while John was still with the Beatles. Go figure.
02 Tight A$
John doing a bit of 50’s rock ‘n roll. A throwaway really. An example of how quick John could pull off a rocker like this. Every decent band can produce a song like this and it’s nothing special. A filler. John’s long ‘Weeeellllll’ at the start of the verse is getting annoying after a while.
03 Aisumasen (I’m Sorry)
This starts off as a nice blues ballad, meant to be an apology to Yoko. The song is somewhat reminiscent of John’s earlier work during Plastic Ono Band. Nice chord switch at 0.38. The middle eight starting at 2.09 is not the song’s best part, but it’s alright. Glad that John slips back into the verse at 2.30. The song becomes a bit boring a the start of the guitar solo (3.31), by this time my feeling goes towards an ending, but John goes on for another good minute. Overall, one of the better songs on the album.
04 One Day (At The Time)
Completely sung in falsetto gives this song a feeling of ‘not take it too seriously’ and a lack of energy. That lack of energy is on overall feeling on almost the whole album, but is at its strongest in this song. The echo-delay on the snare drum is annoying and slows the song down further. Backing vocals are alright and gives this song something to remember. The little sax solo is a highlight. Another filler.
05 Bring On The Lucie (Freeda Peeple)
The slide guitar makes it sound like a George Harrison songs during his solo efforts. Or better, a mix between George and John’s more popular songs. A simple verse followed by a singalong chorus, reminiscent of Power To The People. The chorus keeps the song alive, especially the backing vocals. There’s that annoying ‘Weeelllll’ again (3.08). Just alright.
06 Nutopian International Anthem
Three seconds of silence. Probably has a deeper meaning, but still it’s three seconds of silence. Well, at least I’m happy that Yoko didn’t fill it up.
07 Intuition
I enjoyed this one, it sounds light and almost as if John is enjoying himself. This is a fairly simple song tho, and another one that is clearly written in half an hour or so. The honky tonk piano solo adds to the light feeling of the song. A pity John has a soft spot for sax solo’s: the sax at the end of the song kinda ruins it.
08 Out The Blue
The album’s most beautiful song, a nice ballad that shows that John can still write a decent song. Everything is adding to the atmosphere. Again great backing vocals. Good piano, also the solo towards to end. John finally lets his voice go (1.37). Plus a proper ending.
09 Only People
Plodding along, John tries to sound convincing and folky. Instead he produces another filler. It’s not bad as a song, but it goes nowhere. The fact that the fade out starts almost a minute before the song is really over, proves that. Only People has a somewhat Eurovision Song Contest-kind of hook and makes it a bit enjoyable.
10 I Know (I Know)
The start is tense and promises a good song, but after the band joins in at 0.32, it’s obvious it’s another filler. John’s voice sounds alright in this song, the rest is forgettable.
11 You Are Here
The maracas are laughable, trying to give the song a Caribbean feeling or so. Slide guitar again, adding to the feeling that it’s a George Harrison album once more. And in my humble opinion, a lot of George’s albums are just more of the same trick. You Are Here is a nice song, but again nothing special. In fact the whole album is like that.
12 Meat City
Weeelllllllll. John adds another rocker and at least he’s putting some effort in it. And there’s a hidden message in it: after the first refrain of "Just gotta get me some rock and roll" there is a squeaky vocal which when played backwards has been deciphered as ‘f*** a pig’. Whatever. And aggresively played and sung song, which almost makes it an exception on the album.
Overall
Mind Games is not a bad album, it just lacks energy and outstanding songs. Most of the songs on the album are enjoyable AND forgettable.
-
Good revue Cor, I agree mostly, another poor album from John :-[
Probably thought 'I know I'll make an album while the guys are here'
ha2ha
-
A good assessment I think. It was always an underwhelming album to me. I like Mind Games and having Bring on the Lucie as the closing track of Children of Men made me listen to it and like it a bit more.
Aside from that Tight A$ is a bit of fun. That's about it for songs I'd listen to.
The falsetto on one day at a time irritates me. Even without it it wouldn't be a great song but at least it'd be listenable and amiable. I read somewhere that Yoko suggested the falsetto with the intent being to make John sound ridiculous. If true 1) it worked and 2) it shows how John could be so easily led by her.
-
Hey Bobber, thanks for posting this!
It gave me an excuse to dust off an album I've not listened to in a long time....
And here's what I found!
Mind Games
A powerful and underrated fanfare which for me showcases John's awesome vocal talent. There is still a very 60s hippy idealism to it which rather dates it now - and probably dated even back then - but which, with hindsight, I find more touching than tedious. A sense of hope for the future prevails and I always find myself enjoying it. The kind of track I wouldn't seek out to play but would always turn up and listen to if it came on the radio.
Tight A$
Love this. Brimming with the kind of cheeky swagger that only John at his most precocious can pull off. A nice slice of irreverent rock & roll which bounces along uncompromisingly and injects a bit of mischief into proceedings. Great.
Aisumasen (I'm Sorry)
John was renowned for pouring his heart out in sometimes harrowingly personal songs and I often admired him for that - indeed, some of the results stand among the very best solo Beatle recordings. This is NOT one of them. Dull and turgid, I've no doubt it was genuinely heartfelt but unless you're Yoko Ono you don't need to hear it. Should have been kept as a private demo and for me adds nothing to the album - indeed I'd go so far as to say it's mawkish and instantly forgettable. A definite skip for me.
One Day (At A Time)
One of those inexplicable guilty pleasures which crop up all too often on solo albums - you feel you shouldn't like them but you do (you're reading the opinions here of someone who admits to regarding "Famous Groupies" as a real gem and a true highlight of Wings' "London Town"). So what's the appeal then? Maybe the novelty falsetto which grabs the attention, or those gorgeously twee rhyming couplets... unlike the track preceeding it it DOES at least have a tune too... I can't put my finger on it but I just like it, so there!
Bring On The Lucie (Freeda People)
Love it, love it! That wonderfully Harrisonesque slide guitar and John's fabulous world weary, cynical verses wrapped around a classic Lennon-anthem chorus. Sounds like a slow marching battle weary band ascending some triumphant summit. What's not to like? And as usual, brilliantly sung (by the way, I LOVE John's "weeeellll" vocal idiosyncracy; great little trademark). Nice to hear some of the ascerbic Lennon of old surfacing in those wonderfully waspish lyrics too. An album highlight for me.
Nutopian International Anthem
Silence given the silly accolade of its own track listening. But that was John being John I suppose.
Intuition
Starts out breezily enough but sinks into a plodding malaise within a few bars and the brief chorus is downright soppy. Inoffensive enough I guess but really nothing more than throwaway, mushy filler.
Out The Blue
Better than I remembered it. I used to frequently skip this one and it still drags on a bit but as usual it's redeemed by John's sublime vocals. The backing singers do a fine job too. Still has the stamp of a superior filler about it though.
Only People
Another rallying call to the baby boomers in the vein of Mind Games and Bring On The Lucie, though lacking the persuasive weight and credibility of its album bedfellows. Plods along amiably enough but too frothy and lightweight to carry much of a message. Filler.
I Know (I Know)
Those opening seconds put me in mind of "I've Got A Feeling" but this one quickly drifts anonymously into the ether as perhaps one of the most forgettable, pointless offerings on the entire album. Not particularly unpleasant yet completely unengaging, and I begin to shift uncomfortably at the rising "filler" quotient becoming increasingly evident....
You Are Here
Oh dear! just pips the previous track as the worst on the album. I really don't like this and by now I'm feeling sadly shortchanged as I come to recall just how much bland mush pads out this initially promising LP. In many ways I am reminded of Paul's contemporaneous "Red Rose Speedway" - an album which promised so much but ended up delivering so little.
Meat City
Well done John! Just in the nick of time he takes the album out on a high with "Meat City" - one of my favourite cuts, vamping things up at the finale with a generous thumping of feisty Lennon rock. But it's a bit too little too late.
For many fans, "Mind Games" was a pleasing return to melody after the aggressive political posturing that went before it. There certainly are some nice touches within its grooves - some good if not great tracks and the odd flash of Lennon fire. Probably fair to say it's a too often overlooked (rather than underrated) album, yet it never quite manages to fully lift off the runway and manifests instead as the unconvincing, diluted, lightweight little brother of "Imagine".
-
Based on Bobber's and Mr Mustard's comments I revisited I know I Know, Out of the Blue and Meat City
I Know I Know is an ok song. I could live with it on a Lennon playlist. Catchy with some nice singing.
Out of the Blue is almost a really good song. Just seems something lacking. Maybe it's some nice beatlesque harmonies and a George slide solo.
Meat City I can't say appealed greatly on first relisten but it's at least a bit fun and rocks.
-
Well i'm on vacation and i'm leaving tomorrow. Guess i'll be listening to this album in the truck. Lol. Its been awhile for e and i'm curious as to how it'll be received.
Thanks Cor.
-
Erm, well, enjoy your holidays.
-
Erm, well, enjoy your holidays.
Don't get snippy with me man. You act like your busy or something with a child and so forth. ha2ha
-
I meant I may be a bit hard to enjoy the holidays with this album on.
-
It's worth remembering that a John Lennon "filler" would be an album "gem" for many lesser artists. At least two of those throwaway tracks I was rather dismissive of have been resurfacing into my ears on and off ever since I wrote my review...can't get the bloody tunes out of my head and can't now deny rather enjoying them.
Beware the earworm effect which both Lennon and McCartney had a knack of producing even amidst the most banal of their solo work!
-
It's worth remembering that a John Lennon "filler" would be an album "gem" for many lesser artists. At least two of those throwaway tracks I was rather dismissive of have been resurfacing into my ears on and off ever since I wrote my review...can't get the bloody tunes out of my head and can't now deny rather enjoying them.
Beware the earworm effect which both Lennon and McCartney had a knack of producing even amidst the most banal of their solo work!
I know what you mean. I Know I Know has made it onto a playlist already.
-
It's worth remembering that a John Lennon "filler" would be an album "gem" for many lesser artists. At least two of those throwaway tracks I was rather dismissive of have been resurfacing into my ears on and off ever since I wrote my review...can't get the bloody tunes out of my head and can't now deny rather enjoying them.
Beware the earworm effect which both Lennon and McCartney had a knack of producing even amidst the most banal of their solo work!
I disagree with you the Mr M, imo other artists in the period were producing much better music than solo Beatles, just a quick look at 73 gives you;
Elton John
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Mike Oldfield
Tubular Bells
Pink Floyd
The Dark Side of the Moon
Stevie Wonder
Innervisions
Genesis
Selling England by the Pound
Black Sabbath
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Led Zeppelin
Houses of the Holy
King Crimson
Larks' Tongues in Aspic
The Who
Quadrophenia
David Bowie
Aladdin Sane
plus a few dozen more that leave Mind Games for dead
Mind Games for me showed that John had lost his muse - Paul McCartney (and vica versa)
-
Hey, Nim, maybe so, but Elton covered One Day At A Time so apparently he liked it! :)
-
Elton John
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Mike Oldfield
Tubular Bells
Pink Floyd
The Dark Side of the Moon
Stevie Wonder
Innervisions
Genesis
Selling England by the Pound
Black Sabbath
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Led Zeppelin
Houses of the Holy
King Crimson
Larks' Tongues in Aspic
The Who
Quadrophenia
David Bowie
Aladdin Sane
Oh come on you made that one up!
-
Hey, Nim, maybe so, but Elton covered One Day At A Time so apparently he liked it! :)
;D
No Moog
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larks'_Tongues_in_Aspic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larks'_Tongues_in_Aspic) ha2ha
-
I just listened to Mind Games
My favourite track by far is Out Of The Blue
actually a great song and really well sung
Heartfelt
-
A decent album. But John's peak as a solo artist had already passed away.
-
Looking at that list, and remembering just how ho-hum 'Mind Games' was, reminds me just how shocking was the change from the colour and hope of the 60s to the dirge of the following decade.....not to mention the awful clothes.
Even the cover of the LP looks hastily assembled and lacklustre - compare the cover art to 'Pepper's' or the 'White Album' or 'Blonde on Blonde'.
Anyone who was in their teens in 1973 should go and get a refund from one of those No Win/No Fee firms!
-
Looking at that list, and remembering just how ho-hum 'Mind Games' was, reminds me just how shocking was the change from the colour and hope of the 60s to the dirge of the following decade.....not to mention the awful clothes.
Even the cover of the LP looks hastily assembled and lacklustre - compare the cover art to 'Pepper's' or the 'White Album' or 'Blonde on Blonde'.
Anyone who was in their teens in 1973 should go and get a refund from one of those No Win/No Fee firms!
Depends which part of those decades we're looking at in my opinion. Mid 70s were a bit of a drag but early and late 70s were great. Everly Brothers and Roy Orbison aside, The pre-Beatles 60s were awful (just my opinion remember!).
1973 was a fabulously outrageous and colourful year - think Aladdinsane Bowie, Elton with his foil suits and giant spectacles, Slade in all their top-hatted, garish tartan finery... plus all the glittery makeup, space age platform boots and silver capes sported by groups like The Sweet, Wizzard and T.Rex. In the UK at least the pop (if not rock) industry reached a zenith of fun and flamboyance, despite - or perhaps because of - the grim times of petrol rationing, IRA bombs, industrial strike action, power cuts and the three day week.
Contrast that with the almost identical boring clones of 1963 in their black suits, thin ties and brylcreemed hair. Not including The Beatles, obviously - if not for them we'd have still been stuck with crap like Frank Ifield and the Singing Nun.
If any generation deserves a "refund" it's those poor unfortunates who happened to be about 15 in the late 80s when the charts were swamped with a mixture of charity records, rap, aciiiid/house "music" and manufactured Stock-Aitken-Waterman bubblegrum garbage. At least things improved in the 90s.
-
I disagree with you the Mr M, imo other artists in the period were producing much better music than solo Beatles, just a quick look at 73 gives you;
Elton John
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Mike Oldfield
Tubular Bells
Pink Floyd
The Dark Side of the Moon
Stevie Wonder
Innervisions
Genesis
Selling England by the Pound
Black Sabbath
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Led Zeppelin
Houses of the Holy
King Crimson
Larks' Tongues in Aspic
The Who
Quadrophenia
David Bowie
Aladdin Sane
plus a few dozen more that leave Mind Games for dead
Mind Games for me showed that John had lost his muse - Paul McCartney (and vica versa)
Don't disagree about John/Paul losing their way a bit without each other.... but my point was that even an average album track from Lennon would have been a highlight on many other similar style artist's albums - not just in 1973 - reinforced for me by the list of (as always, just in my opinion) very overrated albums you have presented. For me, probably the best on that list is "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" - in itself generously padded out with forgettables; and the best cuts from "Mind Games" are way superior to the average track from GYBR.
Also I don't think you can compare "Mind Games" with 1973's "Dark Side Of The Moon" or "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" any more than you can judge "Rubber Soul" against 1965's "The Sound Of Music" or "Going Places" by Herb Alpert and The Tijuana Brass - all popular, but they're mainly aiming towards rather different audiences, surely?
-
Of course, but I was emphasising some of the fabulous music that 1973 had to offer, different styles than John yes but in any list of greatest albums of 73 Mind Games would be lucky to get into the top 50, I maintain that 75% of that album is filler, Cors review is bang on, it sounds like he made up some of those songs the night before he recorded them, 'I know, lets do a 12 bar rocker, I'll make up some lyrics in the studio.......Welllllllll'
Some people dont like the 70's, but for me the 70's outweighs any other decade in terms of creativity, Selling England By The Pound, Dark Side Of The Moon, Tubular Bells, Innervisions are but a morsel of what the 70's had to offer, I wasnt keen on the glam rock you mentioned, but listen to what Faust, Can, Gentle Giant, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Jethro Tull, Sebastian Hardy, Yes were doing for a taste of serious 70's music
I recommend these also (all from 73. and all superb albums imo ;D)
Camel - Camel
Le Orme - Felona & Sorona
Renaissance - Ashes Are Burning
Area - Arbeit macht frei
Manfred Mann's Earth Band - Solar Fire
Faust - Faust IV
Berlin - Lou Reed.
For Your Pleasure - Roxy Music
Caravan - For girls who grow plump in the night
Stranded - Roxy Music
Brain Salad Surgery - ELP
Tyranny & Mutation - Blue Oyster Cult
Tres Hombres - ZZ Top
Countdown to Ecstasy - Steely Dan
Desperado - The Eagles
-
Wednesday or Thursday for sure. Just got back from vacation and couldn't trust the internet connection there.
-
Good job, Mr. Mustard, The Beatles didn't think that the only 50s pop that was any good was Roy Orbison and The Everly Brothers, as there would have been no.....zip, zilch, nought, nil.....Beatles!
They simply wouldn't have existed.
-
I think this album is one classic song (title track) and several enjoyable tunes that would have been fillers in any Beatles album. I like both rockers ("Tight A$"; "Meat City"), most of the ballads ("Out The Blue"; "I Know (I Know)"; "You Are Here") and some of the rest ("Bring On The Lucie (Freda Peeple)"; "Intuition"), but none of these tracks belong to the pen of the best John.
-
Good job, Mr. Mustard, The Beatles didn't think that the only 50s pop that was any good was Roy Orbison and The Everly Brothers, as there would have been no.....zip, zilch, nought, nil.....Beatles!
They simply wouldn't have existed.
I never mentioned the 50s obs.
I said in the pre-Beatles 60s there's nothing I really care for apart from The Big O and The Everlys. Then The Beatles arrived and electrified everything.
I love a lot of that 50s stuff without which, I agree, there'd have been no Beatles.
But by the end of that decade:
Elvis was in the army
Little Richard found religion and "retired"
Chuck Berry was in jail
Jerry Lee Lewis was in disgrace for marrying his 13 year old cousin
Buddy Holly was dead.
As the 60s dawned Rock & Roll had been tamed and given a showbiz gloss with diluted, non threatening acts like Bobby Vee, Fabian, Frankie Avalon and Pat Boone coming more to the fore. Plus jazzy tripe like The Temperance Seven and novelty records by the likes of Bernard Cribbins. Just awful.
1960-62: in my opinion one of the low points in pop music, it didn't get this bad again until the dreadful mid 80s.
-
Quite apart from 'The Sound of Fury' and The Shadows, virtually the template for The Beatles' look and sound c. 1962, I think you're talking about recorded music, which I'd still maintain was often terrific (and in 2014 often superb value for money away from all the expensive box set nonsense).
With the folk clubs blossoming in Britain in the early 60s, the R 'n' B clubs of London producing The Stones etc., and places like Liverpool, Birmingham and Newcastle producing The Beatles et al, I can think of no patch of time MORE exiting than that 1960/1961/1962 period.
Throw in the theatre, cinema and emerging mod movement in Britain and it seems almost impossible that a 'Beatles' of some sort couldn't or wouldn't happen.
Remember, The Beatles didn't start in 1962, and nor did the 60s, and The Beatles weren't listening to any of the stuff you mention anyway!
-
Neither Billy Fury (puzzlingly overrated IMO) nor The Shadows (at times mocked by The Beatles with those cheesy synchronised dance steps) ever provided a template for the fabs. The whole point was that they refused to copy anyone...if they had a blueprint it was those raw fifties rockers like Chuck Berry and Little Richard, and skifflers like Lonnie Donegan - such acts had already had their day by the time the sixties arrived. Of course The Beatles never stopped absorbing influences, from American girl groups to Dylan, Motown and beyond, but I don't believe any of the stuff that inspired them arose in those embarrassingly lame first three years of the sixties.
Don't forget, to the wider British public beyond Merseyside The Beatles DID start in '62... few people had heard of them prior to that. I take your point about vibrant scenes around London/Liverpool/Newcastle throwing up fresh talent in '60/'61 but all of these acts were harking back to the authentic pre sixties rhythm & blues/rock & roll/country stuff, the mainstream hits which define the era and were engaging the public at that time was drivel like "Come Outside" or "Tell Laura I Love Her" and similar rubbish churned out by chart toppers like Floyd Cramer, Anthony Newley and Frankie Vaughan. That may not have been what, say, the embryonic Stones were listening to: it WAS what the general public were lapping up!
A punk fan could just as well argue that the mid 70s were great because they spawned the rise of groups like The Sex Pistols and The Clash... but that time will be remembered as an era of proto disco hits and sugary pop from Abba and The Bay City Rollers - indeed it was that very same prevailing lightweight pop from the likes of Demis Roussos and bloated, self absorbed prog rock from such as Emerson Lake & Palmer which those punk bands were determined to blow away.
By the same token, The Beatles instantly rendered very popular crap like Eden Kane and Johnny Tillotson old hat. The sixties may not have started with The Beatles, but they were in danger of becoming a much poorer decade than the fifties until the fab four rescued them, and that didn't take hold on a noticeable scale until 1963.
You broadened out the argument by bringing up films/theatre etc and on that score I would certainly agree with you.
And whilst I concur that the times were more conducive to producing "A Beatles" of some sort than the decades that followed, I do believe that those four Liverpudlians were a once in a lifetime freak of colliding brilliance/circumstance.... no one else came near them, not The Stones, The Who, The Animals, The Kinks...no one.
-
Hmmmm. I think there is a clear link with acts like Buddy Holly and Everley Brothers (in look and sound) to The Beatles.
I cannot accept that they appeared from a vacuum, or that the supposedly awful charts of the early sixties actually reflects the real music scene of the day. (anymore than you can claim same conditions for punk in the mid seventies (awful charts, the Sex Pistols apparently - but not really- arriving out of the blue.)
Music trends tend to bubble underground for a good few years before they are reflected by charts, all these trends wait for is that one band that with the right image and sound to be the big break through act ( cue Elvis, The Beatles, The Sex Pistols, Nirvanna.....) None of them invented anything, but became the acts the breakthrough acts of heir day.
-
Hmmmm. I think there is a clear link with acts like Buddy Holly and Everley Brothers (in look and sound) to The Beatles.
I cannot accept that they appeared from a vacuum, or that the supposedly awful charts of the early sixties actually reflects the real music scene of the day. (anymore than you can claim same conditions for punk in the mid seventies (awful charts, the Sex Pistols apparently - but not really- arriving out of the blue.)
Music trends tend to bubble underground for a good few years before they are reflected by charts, all these trends wait for is that one band that with the right image and sound to be the big break through act ( cue Elvis, The Beatles, The Sex Pistols, Nirvanna.....) None of them invented anything, but became the acts the breakthrough acts of heir day.
For sure The Beatles never appeared from a vacuum and nobody entirely invented anything from scratch. Buddy Holly and The Everly Brothers were indeed definite influences....from the 1950s. My point was that I feel mainstream (i.e. widely recognised/played/purchased) music took a nosedive around 1960 (apart from the emergence of Orbison and Those Everly boys who went from strength to strength). Of course there were some good records about in that era ("Apache", "Shakin' All Over") but I don't believe the general public or even the average teenager were tapped into the waking giant that is always, as you rightly say, "bubbling under" during outwardly stale periods like '60-'62.
-
Mr M.
Wasn't Goffin and King an acknowledged influence on Lennon and McCartney. I could be wrong on the time frame of their success but they along with Joe Meak and the early US girl groups were quality acts.
-
Neither Billy Fury (puzzlingly overrated IMO) nor The Shadows (at times mocked by The Beatles with those cheesy synchronised dance steps) ever provided a template for the fabs. The whole point was that they refused to copy anyone
Yeah, The Shadows were dance stepping in 1969...
THE SHADOWS - Apache (1969) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoN6AKPGkBo#)
But in 1960 they were so cool, ciggie and all...
The Shadows - Apache (1960) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzgbcyfJgfQ#)
...a definite influence on The Beatles...
(http://www.beatlesource.com/savage/1961/61.03.27%2007.02%20top%20ten/06%20unknown/3.jpg)
-
Mr M.
Wasn't Goffin and King an acknowledged influence on Lennon and McCartney. I could be wrong on the time frame of their success but they along with Joe Meak and the early US girl groups were quality acts.
There were many influences, one great source to study them is 'Tune In' of course
I tend to agree with Mr M on that 60/62 period, Im old enough (61) to remember when the Beatles first appeared and I remember the UK charts before them, memories of things like;
POETRY IN MOTION
JOHNNY TILLOTSON
PORTRAIT OF MY LOVE
MATT MONRO
PEPE
RUSS CONWAY
GINCHY
BERT WEEDON
RUBBER BALL
BOBBY VEE
A SCOTTISH SOLDIER (GREEN HILLS OF TYROL)
ANDY STEWART
Elvis was in his glamour puss period with songs like 'Are You Lonesome Tonight', and there was George Martins comedy records oh and Mrs Mills of course........it was pretty sad
There was of course The Everlys and The Shirelles and Kevin has a point about the influence of The Everlys on John & Paul with the harmonies, I dont think they wanted the look of the Everly's I think they wouldve been happy to stay in the leather suits......... but I dont know, when I first heard The Beatles it was like a new dawn, suddenly everybody's ears pricked up, they sounded fresh, the had a lot more beat than The Everly's and were just so much more exciting
They spawned countless new musicians who saw them and wanted to copy them
-
Do you not think popular music follows a pattern:
- Charts go soft and soggy (at least in retrospect)
- Appropriately motivated teenagers, keen for their own sound, meanwhile help create the Next Big Thing in clubs, dance halls and (now) the internet.
- Break through act explodes into public consciousness. For a year, maybe two, the charts again are exciting and new.
- Eventually charts go soft and soggy (at least in retrospect)
- Appropriately motivated…..
-
The Next Big Thing will more than likey have nothing to do with old codgers like you and me or The Now Version Of 8 Year Old You. It’s probably growing somewhere right now. We’ll see it on the telly and be as surprised as you were in 1963 by it all. The kidz who went to the clubs or dodgy websites won’t be. And loads of teenagers who didn’t keep an eye out will be surprised too, along with their parents and 8 year old little brothers.
And so on it goes. It’s the means by which popular music reinvents itself, appearing to evolve. It’s happened again and again, and in this context The Beatles are neither unique or unexpected. They, or someone like them, were bound to happen. Rock DNA dictates it.
-
Do you not think popular music follows a pattern:
- Charts go soft and soggy (at least in retrospect)
- Appropriately motivated teenagers, keen for their own sound, meanwhile help create the Next Big Thing in clubs, dance halls and (now) the internet.
- Break through act explodes into public consciousness. For a year, maybe two, the charts again are exciting and new.
- Eventually charts go soft and soggy (at least in retrospect)
- Appropriately motivated…..
-
The Next Big Thing will more than likey have nothing to do with old codgers like you and me or The Now Version Of 8 Year Old You. It’s probably growing somewhere right now. We’ll see it on the telly and be as surprised as you were in 1963 by it all. The kidz who went to the clubs or dodgy websites won’t be. And loads of teenagers who didn’t keep an eye out will be surprised too, along with their parents and 8 year old little brothers.
And so on it goes. It’s the means by which popular music reinvents itself, appearing to evolve. It’s happened again and again, and in this context The Beatles are neither unique or unexpected. They, or someone like them, were bound to happen. Rock DNA dictates it.
Yes I am in agreement with you on the above, in fact Ive gone soft and soggy as well as the charts ;D
I do think The fabs were an exception though Kevin in that I really dont think there will ever be a band as big or phenomenal again, I could be wrong of course but when you look at old footage of places like Adelaide where the 8 mile drive from the airport was lined with people (not just kids) and hundreds of thousands were in City square to see them on a balcony, it was just freaky, I cant imagine anybody else being so worshipped ever again, surely it was an exceptional phenomenon ?
-
I do think The fabs were an exception though Kevin in that I really dont think there will ever be a band as big or phenomenal again, I could be wrong of course but when you look at old footage of places like Adelaide where the 8 mile drive from the airport was lined with people (not just kids) and hundreds of thousands were in City square to see them on a balcony, it was just freaky, I cant imagine anybody else being so worshipped ever again, surely it was an exceptional phenomenon ?
I agree. As a phenomenon Beatlemania era Beatles were unsurpassed.
-
The Shadows might not have been the last word in rock 'n' roll to John Lennon in 1961 but, rather MORE importantly, they might have seemed that way to a certain Brian Epstein and, whoops!, whad'ya know, The Beatles circa 1963 look the absolute spit of The Shads circa 1961!
The Beatles needed the era more than the era needed The Beatles.
Sure without them it would have been different, but the swingin' 60s would still have happened and those pre-Beatles' years are vital to the whole process.
-
For me, Kevin nailed it brilliantly a few posts above this one with his cyclical "pattern". Spot on. And I would argue that '60-'62 was one of those "soft and soggy" chart periods. Things just HAD to get better...
I recall a music TV show in the early 80s where the presenter (Mike Read perhaps?) was interviewing his guest (Paul Gambaccini I think) about this very subject, the cyclical waxing and waning of music, and the comment was along the lines of "We don't know WHAT the next big thing will be, but we do know WHEN....1984, because it goes in seven year cycles...." the reasoning being:
1956 - Elvis breakthrough and the rise of Rock & Roll
1963 - Beatlemania and the dominance of the vocal/guitar groups
1970 - The break up of The Beatles and the blossoming of Heavy Rock
1977 - Punk
As far as I'm concerned the 7 year theory ran out of steam after that, I can't recall any seismic sea change in '84....unless perhaps you count the dawn of the giant charity ensemble....
Obs, as far as Brian Epstein goes - yes, we all know he smartened up The Beatles act until they became smartly suited, well groomed and presentable. But most smart young males dressed in sharp suits, slim ties and polished shoes or boots back then. The Shadows were hardly trendsetters and certainly didn't invent that orthodox/uniform early sixties style. Epstein may have admired their professionalism but The Beatles didn't try and copy their style/act/sound (beyond that early, quirky nod "Cry For A Shadow" of course - more of a tongue in cheek pastiche than anything else).
As for The Beatles needing the era... well, they had to come along some time, it was the exciting late fifties which sowed the seeds of their germination. They found themselves turning professional and emerging in one of those soggy lulls ripe and ready for a new sound. Obviously the sixties would have happened without the fabs. But would the decade have "swung"? I doubt it. You could watch a documentary about The Beatles and, whilst conscious of the times around them, you could still admire the timeLESS quality of their brilliance. A documentary about the sixties without The Beatles would, on the other hand, be laughable.
The decade obviously commenced on January 1st 1960 and ended on January 31st 1969, but you could argue the true spirit of the "swinging" sixties began around '63 with The Beatles first LP and ended around '72 with hot pants, kipper ties and the final moon landings. Maybe this sounds daft but I suspect at least some readers will agree with me that there are some records from 1970 which have a more "sixties-ish" (as popularly conceived) sound and feel than some of the hit records from 1960!
One final thought (I promise to shut up after this!) - I'd like to thank Pothos for the pithy and pertinent post about Goffin And King. Yes, a definite and direct influence on Lennon & McCartney from those becalmed years of '61/'62, I must admit. And it reminded me of one other noteworthy (IMO) act from that lull to add to those shining beacons of Everly and Orbison: wonderful Brill building alumnus Neil Sedaka.
-
The Beatles are a vital cog in the 60s but, that's it, they're a cog.
Without the 60s they wouldn't have been the biggest group in the world, someone else would have been.
The 60s were made for the biggest pop group in the world (Pirate Radio, TOTP, RSG!, 4 weekly music papers, pre-stadium rock, pre-logos, singles more important than LPs), no other era.....so, if born 10 years earlier, they'd barely have existed, if born 10 years later they'd have been someone ho-hum who already had the road-map that the biggest group in the world, erm, The Beatles, had created! (e.g. Roxy Music, the clash et al).
I reckon the 60s started much sooner than most would acknowledge (Lonnie Donegan/Elvis in the mid-50s or even The Festival of Britain in 1951) and also ended much sooner, the writing was on the wall as early as 1968, although there are quirks (e.g. Nick Drake's 'Pink Moon' from 1972 is, for me, more a product of the 60s than the plodding, 'ahead of their time', Led Zeppelin or Cream).
-
These are all interesting comments. I definitely think the Beatles were in the right place at the right time. They were obviously extremely well placed to take advantage of the changes going on in society, particularly the growth of the teenage consumer market. As OBS says, if the four lads had come together ten years later they would have been good but just one of many. Ten years earlier they would have been in national service for their early adulthood.
While subsequent revolutions in popular music have happened, eg punk in the late 70s, I think these have had progressively smaller repercussions outside of the music business itself. Punk was obviously huge and it's influence seen everywhere. New Romantics in the early 80s also had reasonable wide influence. Grunge though? I'm not sure most people outside of the people buying the records and the attendant critics etc would have noticed it. Except for Kurt Cobain's suicide. With the growth in disposable income music has met that demand with increased fragmentation. One trawl of iTunes reveals a multitude of bands in a huge array of styles. It seems unlikely any act could really unite a particularly large part of the buying public behind a single act like the Beatles did. Lady Gaga and Beyoncé sell huge numbers of albums and awareness of them extends outside the music buyers. But no one would call their impact Beatle like. The Beatles were a necessary major part of the developing youth oriented music industry. But it's past development stage and is now a mature market. The dynamics are totally different.
-
Most, if not all, post-60s fads, in Britain at least, have been led by the music press and not by the general public, UNLIKE The Beatles whose success was almost entirely fan led, all the way from Liverpool to Hamburg to London to New York.
Check out the chart statistics of the clash (no, that's 'NO', Top 10 hits), the smiths (derisory chart entries when given the huge amount of coverage lavished on them), nirvana etc. etc.
Actually in the case of the first two, they only really had high chart positions with reissues in the 1990s.
In Britain in the 1980s most people, although they wouldn't admit it, were buying Wham, Culture Club and Human League records.
George Michael, Elton John and Phil Collins must have out-sold Morrissey and Strummer 50 to 1.
The 60s revolution was genuine in a way that I don't think subsequent eras have been.
-
Mind Games
I’m finally getting around to typing this up. I love the microscopes and the response’s and opinions everybody share. Hopefully we’ll keep them going.
Mind Games – This is my favorite John Lennon solo song ever. I’m not sure what it is, but it just emits emotion and in my opinion, is the epitome of what a John Lennon song should be. My cousin and I would always argue about what his greatest song was and he would choose ‘Number 9 Dream’ and I would choose this one. Anyways, onto the song. It starts off with a fade in of a super high note on what I can only think to be a violin. I’m probably wrong. Speaking of being wrong, I cant tell what the repeating loop is being played on during each bar. Is it a whining guitar or maybe a organ or some sort? I don’t know, but I like it. Jim Keltner’s drums have that muddy sound that seems to be a trademark on most of Johns solo efforts. That voice though. When John starts singing, he grabs me. I’m not a John solo fan as most around here know, but this song gets me for some reason. At the 1:15 mark when John comes in with ‘Love is the answer’, I love the plucking rhythm guitar and Gordon Edwards bass. 2:05 love the organ or mellotron. Awesome. John’s vocals are double tracked throughout and seem tight. I could go on about how fantastic this song is, but I’ve rambled enough.
Tight A$’ – I always envision line dancing at some country bar when I hear this tune. It has a nice beat to it with actually some funky drumming by Keltner that makes it more interesting then it probably should be. John’s nasal twang voice sounds good. I’m not crazy about the guitar solos. They aren’t bad, but they don’t excite me either. All in all its an ok song if I haven’t heard it for awhile, but nothing I would ever go search for.
Aisumasen (I’m Sorry) – Bluesy number. This song always got old with me quick. It just seems like a typical, run of the mill John song that he’s done a million times before. I love his voice though. He puts on a good show and throws some effort into it, but its just a boring ass song that goes on too long. It’s a pass for me.
One Day (At A Time) – This song is awful. That high pitched voice and those background vocals that remind me of Yucko,,,urgh. I’m annoyed with Keltners echo effect on his snare too. Horrible. Bass sounds good and Gordon can play. This song just grates on me and a definite pass. Sometimes I wonder how John can get behind songs like these.
Bring On The Lucie (Freeda Peeple) – I’m not much of a slide guitar man and this song (actually this album) isn’t swaying my opinion. Here’s a song that just plods along and never goes anywhere. John preaches behind a monotonous song like he has done so often before. The only saving grace for me is that damn bass. Sounds great. Hate this song.
Nutopian International Anthem – Why?
Intuition – Dig the shuffle beat. I have to mention the bass again. Goodness. Keltner does some sweet drumming here too with buzz rolls and so forth. Like Johns voice. The guitar and mellotron in the background sound a little chaotic but in a good way. Cool organ solo. Little sax at the end too just to wet your whistle. I like this song a lot.
Out The Blue – Guitar intro reminds me of a cross between Julia and Across The Universe. Sounds great. John sings along and then the band comes in at the :38 mark. There’s that slide again. Listen at the chords and music from the :45 to :50 mark. It’s “Valotte’ by Julian. Coincidence? Hmmm. Love the backgrounds at the 1:05 point. The piano at 1:15 is nice. 1:45 John’s voice,,,,awesome. 2:22 weird break followed by some really great piano. I’m torn on this song. I like it, but I don’t want to. I feel it’s a tad tedious, but I wont skip it.
Only People – Funky Stevie Wonder sounding intro. Nice beat to the song and it’s a real toe tapper, but I have an issue with it. I cant listen to this song without thinking of the Coca-Cola commercial with all the people singing ‘I’d Like To Teach The World To Sing(In Perfect Harmony). It detracts from the listening enjoyment. I realize I have issues. Anyways, I really dig the background vocals and the organ playing is top notch. It’s a good song.
I Know (I Know) – Whats up with all these song titles in parentheses? Sheesh. The beginning reminds me of ‘I Got A Feeling’. Nice guitar sound. I love John’s voice when he busts in at the :30 mark with ‘And I Know’. At the 1:25 mark, John double tracks his voice, but he’s singing in a higher range in one channel then the other and sounds amazing. After saying all of these nice things, its kind of a boring song. Filler, if I must go to that term. Nothing special but inoffensive. It would receive a skip.
You Are Here – Slow song with a nice organ and some slide guitar. Like a dreamy Hawaiian song. Relaxing. Dare I say that the background vocals sound like Linda McCartney and Wings? Regardless, this song is nice and remember enjoying it when I smoked in my younger days.
Meat City – Little rocker that has some damn good sounding guitars from the :20 to :30 mark until the break when the baby talks (that’s how I refer to it). That kills the song for me and it only lasts for like 1 second. This could have been a contender but that one part kills any seriousness I have for it. Disappointing. Keltner plays some mean skins (maybe it was Marotta), especially his ride work. Song even gives you some backwards music ala Beatles at the 1:00 point. Basically the song has 3 or 4 breaks and does something silly or off the wall for a brief second before they come back in. It’s a pretty decent rocker, but again nothing special.
This album is a mixed bag (like all John records in my opinion). You have the great opener and title track (in which nothing on the record comes close to it), a couple of decent tracks, a few snoozers, and one or two abominations. All that being said, I enjoyed listening to it. It had been a long time since I’ve heard it and I cant emphasize enough how refreshing it was to not hear Yoko at any point. Not my favorite John album, but I do like it.
-
Great reviews Cor and Mr. M. We all seem to be a bit all over the place with this offering. I think that's great for some reason.
-
Ooooo look. This years Microscope. I shall maybe give it a go you know...
-
Ooooo look. This years Microscope. I shall maybe give it a go you know...
At least my contributions to this forum are in general more constructive than yours.
-
I have to say I agree with you on all your points. When I saw this on Microscopes the only song I could actually remember was Mind Games. When I finally found a site on You Tube with Mind Games that wasn't banned in my country I gave it a listen and found a couple more that were familiar which for me says something!
I think John writes best when he's angry at something! And this period was his "Waning radical politics, I love Paul, post Primal Scream...! He's lost! All the turmoil that made him John are in remission. He had to go to L.A. not long after this and get ripped, embarrassed etc... to write a few good songs for Walls and Bridges! After that I think he was basically done. After that he went recluse and was silent for 5 years till Double Fantasy! You have to give it to though as his ability to reinvent himself is amazing!
Musically I think he's lost too! There are some good parts but the slide is Georges influence, The falsetto's on One Day seem to me to be an attempt at musically making John and Yoko ( Joko, Yohn ) as one! Old news! The back ups with bass and drums are excellent but can't carry the album.
If I had to place this album in a contemporary Solo Beatles place I would put it along side Wings Wildlife. Not for the style of music but that they both felt that they might be washed up! Paul as his style was got over it and went at it aggressively. John reinvented himself and came back later!
-
At least my contributions to this forum are in general more constructive than yours.
My views to things are on point and entirely accurate in as the summation of the detailed revelation, towards a correct outcome, where all are uplifted, benefited immensely and satisfied on all sides of the view and from every angle, towards a successful and succinct explanation. To disagree is severe policy and if you choose so you shall incur the ill of all my Kin, past and future. You have picked an argument that you cannot win.
I prefer this...
John Lennon Bring On The Lucie Freeda Peeple Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2wvJUZYQ7o#)
-
My views to things are on point and entirely accurate in as the summation of the detailed revelation, towards a correct outcome, where all are uplifted, benefited immensely and satisfied on all sides of the view and from every angle, towards a successful and succinct explanation. To disagree is severe policy and if you choose so you shall incur the ill of all my Kin, past and future. You have picked an argument that you cannot win.
Are you related to Sir Humphrey Appelby, Ollier? ;)
http://youtu.be/8keZbZL2ero (http://youtu.be/8keZbZL2ero)
-
I prefer this...
John Lennon Bring On The Lucie Freeda Peeple Version ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2wvJUZYQ7o#[/url])
That's got quite a nice groove to it. It's one of the better songs on the album I think.
It's funny that John so often either used George on his records or got others to play in a similar style. Same with Ringo really. John apparently often asked for Ringo like playing.