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[Kevin]

Just as an aside, I was holidaying in Hawaii in '84 (I think). I was shopping in downtown Honolulu (my girlfriend made me) which is not far from Pearl Harbour, which had the highest concentration of nuclear weapons in the world.
A message came over the shop radio that the Soviets had just shot down a Korean airliner, no-one knew what the f*ck was going on, the military was on red alert  and that we should be prepared for any  "imminent air strike."
For a few hours it was a very scary time. The doomsday clock, the visual aid used by some emminent group of scientists to illustrate how close we were to a nuclear exchange, had already been set at a minute to midnight (midnight being Goodnight Vienna).
But then again, scientists have always been a gloomy lot.

[Kevin]

Lets all live in reterospect then. hehe

we may not have the power to save/change the world much individually but each of us can do an amazing amount of good with our time on this spinning rock. That's all I know really.

Amen to that.

[adamzero]

And very egocentric. Which is why this world is in the state it's in.

I think the trick is trying to change yourself to be more compassionate, less self-centered (lose yourself to gain yourself).  However, for some folks the process of changing one's self can become just as much as a false idol as anything else and egotism (or self absorption) can prevent true change.  

 "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

Or,

"You say you

[Mairi]

That's the problem with my generation, I think. Yes, we do have the potential to change the world, but what are we doing? Listening to our iPods, watching The OC (gag), and chatting with our friends on IM using inane internet slang.

[Kevin]

I think the trick is trying to change yourself to be more compassionate, less self-centered (lose yourself to gain yourself).  However, for some folks the process of changing one's self can become just as much as a false idol as anything else and egotism (or self absorption) can prevent true change.  

 "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

Hello Adamzero. Nice point. Just for the sake of discussion, but it's ironic that you use Johns quotes to back your case when he's probably more guilty than most of those very things you decry (egotism and self absorption ) But that's junkies - sorry, philosophers -  for you.

[adamzero]

Good point about John.  He seems to have been a big ego, but oddly enough he also seems to have been able at times to see beyond it, to see his big ego as a big trap (made only worse by chemical dependence).  

Junkies, if we can speak generically, are usually striving for something--a peace, a calm, an at-oneness with themselves and the world.  They get caught up in using a drug to excite the natural brain chemicals that promote these feelings (at least in the short term).

John was definitely a quester--and drugs, which seem to free the mind, can become just another trap of self-absorption.  Another layer in the "Glass Onion"--I think John was aware of the limits of drugs, but hooked nevertheless.  

Or look at Syd Barrett . . . .  

[Sondra]

Good point about John.  He seems to have been a big ego, but oddly enough he also seems to have been able at times to see beyond it, to see his big ego as a big trap (made only worse by chemical dependence).  

Junkies, if we can speak generically, are usually striving for something--a peace, a calm, an at-oneness with themselves and the world.  They get caught up in using a drug to excite the natural brain chemicals that promote these feelings (at least in the short term).



  

I think that was probably more true in the early days of drugs. LDS and the sixties. People taking it to create or to  have some sort of religious experience. As soon as you look at what happened in the 70's and 80's, it became less about striving for some form of enlightenment and more about just having a good time. Nowadays, I think most junkies get into it to escape or because of their environment. There's not a whole lot of soul searching going on anymore. They've got their blogs for that I guess. Talk about ego. Setting up websites all about listing the daily minutiae that goes on in your lilfe. Shut up and just go outside or something. It's so pointless. It's a sad generation.

My two cents to everyones conversation on this thread:

Everything is hunky dory in bongobongoland. If you feel it ain't so it is.

[pc31]

>
>  VERY  INTERESTING-
>
>
>
> 1. The Garden of Eden was in  Iraq
>
>
>
> 2.  Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq,  was the cradle of civilization!
>
>
>
> 3.  Noah  built the ark in Iraq.
>
>
>
> 4. The  Tower of Babel was in Iraq
>
>
>
> 5.  Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern  Iraq!
>
>
>
> 6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor,  which is in Iraq!
>
>
>
> 7. Jacob  met Rachel in Iraq.
>
>
>
> 8. Jonah  preached in Nineveh - which is in  Iraq.
>
>
>
> 9. Assyria,  which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.
>
>
>
> 10. Amos  cried out in Iraq!
>
>
>
> 11.  Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.
>
>
>
> 12. Daniel was!  in the lion's den in Iraq!
>
>
>
> 13. The  three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had
been in
> Iraq also as the fourth  person in the
>
>
>
>  
>
> Fiery  furnace!)
>
>
>
> 14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in  
Iraq.
>
>
>
> 15.  Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into  
Iraq.
>
>
>
> 16. Ezekiel  preached in Iraq
>
>
>
> 17. The  wise men were from Iraq
>
>
>
> 18. Peter  preached in Iraq.
>
> 19. The  "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon,  
which
> was a city in Iraq!  
>
>
>
> And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most  often
> mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is  second? It
is Iraq!
> However, that is  not the name that is used in the Bible The names
used in
> the Bible  are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia . The word
> Mesopotamia  means  between the two rivers, more exactly between the  
Tigris
>  and Euphrates Rivers. The name  Iraq, means country with  deep
roots.
>
>
>
> Indeed Iraq is a country with  deep roots and is a very significant
country
> in the Bible.  
>
>
>
> No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy  
associated it
> than Iraq.
>
>
>
> And also,  This is something to think about! Since America is
typically
> represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim  
passages.
>  
>
>
>
> The following verse is from the  Koran, (the Islamic Bible)  
>
>
>
> Koran  (9:11 ) - For it is written that a  son of Arabia would awaken
a
> fearsome Eagle.  The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the
lands
> of Allah  and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still
more
> rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah;  
and there
> was peace.
>

>
>  VERY  INTERESTING-
>
>
>
> 1. The Garden of Eden was in  Iraq
>
>
>
> 2.  Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq,  was the cradle of civilization!
>
>
>
> 3.  Noah  built the ark in Iraq.
>
>
>
> 4. The  Tower of Babel was in Iraq
>
>
>
> 5.  Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern  Iraq!
>
>
>
> 6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor,  which is in Iraq!
>
>
>
> 7. Jacob  met Rachel in Iraq.
>
>
>
> 8. Jonah  preached in Nineveh - which is in  Iraq.
>
>
>
> 9. Assyria,  which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.
>
>
>
> 10. Amos  cried out in Iraq!
>
>
>
> 11.  Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.
>
>
>
> 12. Daniel was!  in the lion's den in Iraq!
>
>
>
> 13. The  three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had
been in
> Iraq also as the fourth  person in the
>
>
>
>  
>
> Fiery  furnace!)
>
>
>
> 14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in  
Iraq.
>
>
>
> 15.  Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into  
Iraq.
>
>
>
> 16. Ezekiel  preached in Iraq
>
>
>
> 17. The  wise men were from Iraq
>
>
>
> 18. Peter  preached in Iraq.
>
> 19. The  "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon,  
which
> was a city in Iraq!  
>
>
>
> And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most  often
> mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is  second? It
is Iraq!
> However, that is  not the name that is used in the Bible The names
used in
> the Bible  are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia . The word
> Mesopotamia  means  between the two rivers, more exactly between the  
Tigris
>  and Euphrates Rivers. The name  Iraq, means country with  deep
roots.
>
>
>
> Indeed Iraq is a country with  deep roots and is a very significant
country
> in the Bible.  
>
>
>
> No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy  
associated it
> than Iraq.
>
>
>
> And also,  This is something to think about! Since America is
typically
> represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim  
passages.
>  
>
>
>
> The following verse is from the  Koran, (the Islamic Bible)  
>
>
>
> Koran  (9:11 ) - For it is written that a  son of Arabia would awaken
a
> fearsome Eagle.  The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the
lands
> of Allah  and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still
more
> rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah;  
and there
> was peace.
>

Anything about North Korea?

[pc31]

not yet...this is circulating to soldiers and their families right now...and john kerry has decided we need to pull our troops out of iraq and go fight in afghanistan...because thats where the terrorists are.....the soldiers in iraq are being killed by car bombs,suicide bombers and snipers....no army type fighting,but happen stance circumstances.....no real combat battles...if they are so numerous lets find them....and????bush them?

[pc31]

hhhhmmmm i wonder where sumeria was.....the monguls mayhaps??let me surf on it...

[An Apple Beatle]

>
> Koran  (9:11 ) - For it is written that a  son of Arabia would awaken
a
> fearsome Eagle.  The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the
lands
> of Allah  and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still
more
> rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah;  
and there
> was peace.
>

Nice info PC.....Now i can see where Bush has his conversations with God. Is this the method to his madness?.....Doubt it....It's still oil really, is it not?


Pleased to say my brother is out of that Iraqi sh*t-hole for the time-being. He had a few stories. If I told you though.....he'd have to kill me. lol

[Kevin]

I think there's something quite poetic in The Brave New World locked in mortal combat with the Cradle of Civilization . It has an element of Greek tragedy to it, and ties up the human story quite nicely.
If I was God this is how I would end the world.

[adamzero]

Sumer was in southern Iraq.  Cradle of Western Civ.  First writing, cuneiform tablets, etc.  Epic of Gilgamesh.  Preceded Babylon and Assyria.  

Personally, I think the aliens had something to do with their rapid advancement.  For some really wild stuff check out Zecharia Sitchen.  

[An Apple Beatle]

Nice one Adam Zero....heres a link on Zecharia Sitchen for any one interested.

http://www.crystalinks.com/sitchen.html

What a sound guy.

[Kevin]

Personally, I think the aliens had something to do with their rapid advancement.  For some really wild stuff check out Zecharia Sitchen.  

Please!! No no no. It can all be expained quite logicaly, with no need for extra-terrestial visitors. Human advancement, like evolution, isn't a uniform curve. It comes in fits and starts. Look at the Industrial Revolution. We went from a land of farms to a land of factories in a generation.  Powered flight - from the Wright Brothers to the moon in two.  In a blaze of creativity homo erectus tamed fire and fashioned tools (quantum leaps for mankind), then didn't do anything else for two million years.

[pc31]

i am mork from ork...na noo na noo......shazbutt!!!
extra terrestials is not a hard thing to swallow....

[Kevin]

anytime...anywhere...
Just that there's no "mystery" to solve.
We don't need alien intervention to expalin anything.

[An Apple Beatle]

We just need David Icke!!! lol...jus kiddin...I embrace all idea's. Your answers are your own. It's all about finding your own path through the maze of madness that is the question of life after death.