DM's Beatles forums

Beatles forums => Albums => Microscopes => Topic started by: tkitna on April 20, 2011, 04:36:01 PM

Title: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: tkitna on April 20, 2011, 04:36:01 PM
Rubber Soul

Finally got around to reviewing this album. I think its leaps and bounds better than HELP!. They were on a roll and it shows. Its not perfect and probably ranks around the 4th or 5th favorite Beatle album of mine, but its good.

Drive My Car - I’ve taken more abuse being a Beatle fan for this song more so than any other it seems. Its downright silly and people call me on it all the time. It starts the album with an upbeat number and some energy, but its almost as if it’s a novelty song. First thing is the bass is super cool. Paul does well. Guitar tone is decent too. I like the tambourine throughout, but the cowbell starts to get under my skin really fast. Its too much. I like the piano. :30 mark I love how Johns voice comes in with the ‘Baby I Love You’. Background vocals are solid. Guitar solo is alright, but nothing great. I do like how it ends with the delayed notes though. Was that a Paul solo or George? I cant remember right now. Ringo does well enough. 1:42 you can hear a guitar lead faintly in the background. 2:18 I like the lead guitar notes being played. So far the review isn’t that bad, BUT the ‘Beep Beep Beep Beep Yeahs’ are horrible. They kill the song for me. They make the song annoying and thus why other people make fun of it. I cant blame them.

Norwegian Wood - Here’s a really good song that I’ve been really sick of for a long time. Fortunately, I havent heard it in a long time and it sounded refreshing today. Love the acoustic guitar sound. Johns voice is killer. The sitar sounds nice too. Bass is out there in the forefront and sounds good. :31 mark I love Pauls backgrounds. :47 I think the sitar buzz throughout the following verses adds a lot and is a nice touch. 1:19 Ringo comes in with just the bass drum and it adds so much. Great touch. Great song with a nice little story to it if your into those type of things.

You Wont See Me - My guilty pleasure and my favorite song on the album. Its not the best song on the record, but hey, what can I do? I really like the beginning and the space and sound that the crash cymbals take up. :02 mark somebody coughs in the background. I really like the added hi hats on top of the drum track. Neat. Piano is cool. I like the sound of the guitar strums throughout also. Harmonies are top notch here. 1:31 Johns voice is awesome. Bass sounds good. Ringo rocks throughout. The falsetto ‘La La La’s’ are a bit much for me. John seems to struggle towards the end of them also. 2:32 somebody says something in the background. 3:05 I love the ‘Yeah’ and background stuff going on.

Nowhere Man - The Beatles very last early sounding song in my opinion. This would have fit nicely on ‘AHDN’. Has always been one of my favorites too. The harmonies don’t get much better than this. The acoustic and bass together sounds awesome. The ‘La La’s’ here sound great. I dig the guitar tone. The guitar solo is fantastic. Love the high guitar note at 1:02. Sweet. Speaking of the bass earlier, man Paul really rocks on this song. Never really noticed that before. Love Pauls voice at the end too. Another great song.

Think For Yourself - A slight drop in quality here with regard to the other songs, but still an enjoyable tune. I really like Georges voice on this song. Background vocals rock. The fuzz bass aggravates me. I don’t like the sound. Too busy in my opinion. I dig the tambourine and morocco’s throughout. Ringo has some nice fills in this song. The production on Ringos drums is awesome. They really sound good. Speaking of Ringo, he hit’s the rim at the end of a fill at the 1:57 mark. We drummers all do it, but just thought I’d mention it. Nice enough song, but nothing special. Leaning towards filler.

The Word - I think this is the Beatles first psychedelic song whether it was meant to be or not. The bass is awesome. Like the morocco’s throughout. Harmonies are cool, but they arent tight throughout the song. Makes me wonder if they spent a lot of time with this one. 0:28 Johns voice sounds great. Like the electric guitar tone, both the strums and other playing. Not thrilled with the electric organ sound or whatever the hell it is they are playing, but its what gives the song the psychedelic feel. Decent song, but theres better on this album.

Michelle - I used to hate this song when I was younger, but now I’m alright with it. If you are a girl and your name is Michelle, how many times has this song been sung to you throughout your lifetime? I never dated a Michelle so I never had the pleasure of doing so. I count myself lucky. Anyways, I love the acoustic guitar sound. Bass is nice. Pauls voice is top notch here. John and George’s backgrounds are great. Ringo’s constant rim shots during the song kind of annoy me. I would have changed it up a little and went to the snare some, but then once again, I’m not Ringo Starr. It definitely works, its just not my taste. Love the guitar solo. Awesome. Fade out ending was nice. It’s a nice song and somewhat legendary, but its not a favorite.

What Goes On - Ahhh, the album killer. This song is bad. Not just bad, its terrible. It brings the album down an entire point its so bad in my opinion. I love Ringo and I know the guys cater to him with a song or two, but at least try. The guitars are horrible throughout the entire song. Sloppy and resemble a huge pile of puke. Ringo does play a hard shuffle though. I hate John and George’s backgrounds. Paul might have been in there too, but I cant hear him. The guitar solo is embarrassing. 1:28 you can hear a voice in the background. 1:49 the song speeds up and its obvious. Might have been the studio, but I think its Ringo trying to keep up with the terrible guitar playing. One of the lamest songs the Beatles have ever done.

Girl - Michelles twin sister. I used to hate this song too when I was younger, but its not bad now. I love Johns voice. Backgrounds are awesome. Acoustic guitar sounds great. I dig the part where John seems to be taking a hit off a joint. The ’tit tit tit tit tit tit’ throughout the chorus is neat and ok I suppose. 1:30 mark I like the acoustic guitar playing here. Adds a lot. 1:52 mark theres two quick guitar notes in the background. They are faint, but its cool. 2:00 love how the song breaks out into some kind of Russian tune. All I ever think of is some guy kicking his legs out with his arms crossed. Nice enough song. Most people think higher of it than I do.

I’m Looking Through You - Now here’s a song I used to like a lot more than I do now. Its still a good song, its just I’m not so hung up on it. I like the acoustic guitar. The constant knee slapping sucks though. It wasn’t needed. 0:27 I hate the electric piano and guitar together. I love Pauls double tracked voice. 0:48 guitar part makes the song in my opinion. Add the 1:02 mark to that previous statement too. At the 1:07 mark though, you can hear guitar in the background and it seems to stay that way for the rest of the song. I don’t dig that. 1:18 theres a squeal in the mike. 1:24 Ringo misses a snare hit. Weird, but he just doesn’t play it. I still like this song.

In My Life - This song gets a ton of hype it seems. I think its great too, but maybe not up to par with other peoples opinions. The harmonies are awesome. Like the guitar tone. :28 they play something that sounds like a triangle or higher pitched tambourine that I don’t care for right before Ringo comes in with the snare and ride. Never really noticed that before. The electric piano solo wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be. Actually its really well played. 1:47 dig the guitar note played there. John barely pulls off the falsetto ending. His voice started to crack. All in all, the song is really good. I always thought it was John trying to write a Yesterday though.

Wait - I’ve always liked this song although I don’t think its much more than filler. It’s the first Beatle song I properly learned on the drums when I was young. I love the tambourine and morocco’s in the beginning. The volume control effect guitars annoy me. 1:16 love Pauls voice when it comes in here. Background vocals are sloppy throughout the entire song. The ending is cool. Good song, but nothing great.

If I Needed Someone - George’s first really good song in my opinion. I never seem to tire of this song. If its not in my top 10 Beatle songs, its scrapping to get in. Love the guitar sound. Bass is great. Backgrounds are awesome. Did I say this was a good song yet? :37 love George’s double tracked voice. 1:07 here is where the song was either won or lost with me. Instead of doing some traditional middle break with a guitar solo, George got innovative and went with background harmonies and a guitar that followed the scope of the song. I thought that was super cool. Speaking of the background harmonies the ’Ah’s’ are awesome. Tambourine filled some space nicely. Love the song.

Run For Your Life - Here’s a song that seems to get lambasted by Beatle fans for some reason. This song (along with Dr. Robert) always seems to find the Beatles most hated lists. Its not great by any means, but I don’t feel it should receive some of the negative feedback it gets. First off, as you can probably see by now, I’m a fan of the Beatles use of the tambourine. They use that instrument in such a tasteful way on most songs that its hard to find fault. I think it’s a lost instrument in todays music. Anyways, its not just nice here, its an absolute must. Its fills out enough space that the song can get by. It would be to bare without it. Love the acoustic guitar sound while the electric guitar strums at the same time. Ringos beat is infectious and the bass foot is hard to do clean. Guitar solo is good. Johns voice is good and convincing here. The backgrounds get a little high for my taste though. 2:07 Johns ’No No No’ makes the song for me. Its obvious I like this song more than most people do. Its pretty average, but an average Beatles song is better than most others.


There you have it. Great album that loses some points for a few mediocre songs and one really bad one. Its easily the best they’ve done to date and it’s a nice stepping stone for the one to come next. 
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: peterbell1 on April 20, 2011, 05:35:54 PM
I think John was at a real high point here (probably literally!). Songs like Norwegian Wood, Nowhere Man, In My Life, Girl - all fantastic tunes and not really the Lennon rockers of old. A lot of acoustic guitar, nice melodies, cool lyrics (none of the "I love you, you love me" stuff).

The Paul songs are OK but I think his are just a bit below John's standard here.

I agree about If I Needed Someone - I love it. George surpasses himself there. Love the 12-string Rickenbacker sound. He out-Byrds the Byrds!

And I also agree about What Goes On - I can't stand it.
It is unfeasibly bad - it does spoil the whole flow of the album, just like Yellow Sub on Revolver (sorry Ringo!)

Lose that song and maybe Run For Your Life, then add in Day Tripper and We Can Work It Out, which were recorded around the same time as the LP, and you would have a record that I would give six stars out of five!!  ;D

And a note about the cover - how cool do they look!?! Not just the front cover, but on the back as well.  8)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 20, 2011, 07:52:18 PM
Rubber Soul, what a great record. It's my very favourite Beatles album and probably my very favourite album by any artist. I like every song, even "What Goes On" which seems to be the second part of "Act Naturally", but much better.

I think that this record was heavily inspired by the Byrds' debut album Mr. Tambourine Man, another folk rock masterpiece. George's "If I Needed Someone" is the obvious example, not only for the 12-string guitar sound but also for the harmony vocals, almost a carbon copy of "The Bells Of Rhymney" (George even wrote a letter to the Byrds admiting this). But the whole album have that folk rock sound that reminds me to the Byrds, with the magical Beatles' touch, of course. Paul's unusual anti-love songs ("You Won't See Me" and "I'm Looking Through You") seem to be inspired in theme by Gene Clark's "I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better", even though things weren't going so good with Jane Asher. The drumming and the use of tambourine in almost every track, they were very Byrdish too. Even the sitar may have been there because David Crosby introduced Ravi Shankar's music to George. I think this opening of mind of the Beatles to others' music was one of the reasons that made them get better, instead of repeating themselves all the time until death as other artists usually do.

Some points to add about the songs:

Drive My Car. Love this song, the perfect opening track. I love the "beep beeps", I don't care what others say about it; it reminds me to the innocense of the early days but inside a more mature framework. The guitar solo was played by Paul, it was a slide guitar I think. George also played guitar, repeating the amazing bass lines of Paul.

Norwegian Wood. Probably the best song in the album, which is saying a lot. Ringo is not only on bass drum, but also on tambourine during the second half of the song.

Nowhere Man. Another gem. Very spiritual song, about the inner loneliness that many people may feel at some point of their lives. Love the guitar solo, apparently it was recorded to get a very treble sound.

The Word. I agree that this could be the first psychedelic Beatles' song, though more because of the colorful lyrics about universal love than the music. I always feel great when I listen to this song, it's like my pot subtitute.

In My Life. The classic piano solo of this great song was played at half-speed when it was recorded and then the tape was played at double-speed to get that baroque sound.

Wait. This track was an actual filler because it was recorded during the Help! sessions and used here at last time because they needed one more song. They added some details like more percussions, getting a decent recording. George's tone pedal guitar makes the song in my opinion.

Run For Your Life. This may have been the last song of side-B because John hated it (though it seemed to be a favourite of George). Still, it was the first song recorded during the sessions (excluding "Wait"), and John's vocal is just great.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Ovi on April 20, 2011, 08:13:45 PM
Great reviews, I agree with most of them.

Girl has always been one of my favourite Beatles songs. It is so simple, so "Beatlish", I don't know, I just have this feeling when I listen to it, they didn't worked their ass off to produce it, neither to write the lyrics, it's just John saying a simple story. The "Is there anybody going to listen to my story" beggining is brilliant, it gets me every time.
You can never hear that kind of lyrics (the "is there anybody..." one) in a Led Zeppelin song or in a Pink Floyd one, it's just the fact that they were not taking themselves too seriously, and that's what I love about the Beatles.

Wait and What Goes On are the weakest songs to me. I pretty much like the rest of the album, with In My Life and Girl tied for the best song, and the rest of the album except the two ones I mentioned below for good songs.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: blmeanie on April 20, 2011, 11:46:27 PM
great album, agree with most if not all the comments.  Has a mood about it that is perfect.

Also produced the base for one of the best (IMO) covers from the catalog.  Paul Westerberg's version of Nowhere Man from the I am Sam soundtrack is amazingly good.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 20, 2011, 11:50:53 PM
I’m Looking Through You - I grew up with the original United States Capitol stereo LP release of Rubber Soul.  This album has the "false starts..."

Beatles - I'm Looking Through You (False Start) - From U.S. Version of Rubber Soul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLFlwOHM0bg#)

The US LP has the following songs:

Side one
 
1. "I've Just Seen a Face"    
2. "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)"  
3. "You Won't See Me"    
4. "Think for Yourself"  
5. "The Word"  
6. "Michelle"    

Side two

1. "It's Only Love"  
2. "Girl"    
3. "I'm Looking Through You"    
4. "In My Life"    
5. "Wait"    
6. "Run for Your Life"

It wasn't until CDs became available in 1987 that I heard the UK album format.

I've always liked this song and have played it on guitar with these "false starts."  To me they were something like a count-in for the song.  I've always liked The Beatles' clap tracks and the one in this song is no exception.  And I was happy that the microphone squeal was left in.  I'm not sure how advanced recording technology was in 1965.  Perhaps the squeal could not be eliminated or maybe The Beatles wanted it there.  The Beach Boys were leaving coughs and banter in their recorded tracks at the time too.

As much as I like this song, when I first heard "take 1" all that changed...

The Beatles - I'm Looking Through You (Take 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IIvxT_Dow4#)  

I prefered this bluesy version to the released version.  It's too polished to be just an early take and perhaps The Beatles considered releasing it.  I know some people like the "why tell me whys" but this version is edgy and has great guitar solos.  Paul really lets his feelings out in this version.

 
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: tkitna on April 21, 2011, 12:29:29 AM
I like the first take version too. I also have the US LP and love the false start. Wish the UK record had it on it.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 21, 2011, 01:39:53 AM
I'll put some songs from the Byrds' Mr. Tambourine Man album just to point out its influence on Rubber Soul.

The Bells Of Rhymney. Guitar intro and harmony vocals in "If I Needed Someone".

THE BYRDS- "THE BELLS OF RHYMNEY" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGFb_xZR3K0#)

I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better. Anti-love theme in "You Won't See Me" and "I'm Looking Through You".

The Byrds - I'll Feel A whole Lot Better (Remastered) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3szM702Ofk#)

I Knew I'd Want You. Folk ballad similar to "Norwegian Wood".

The Byrds-"I Knew I'd Want You"-5/8/65 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5iNr3UGleA#)

It's No Use. Intro (guitar-bass-drums) and soft rock style of "Drive My Car".

It's No Use - The Byrds (1965) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BbHIp7Alhs#)

Even the album cover has a distorted effect like Rubber Soul:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ANisXPH7jNk/TMA7YFhgAOI/AAAAAAAAAZU/0VaNZfAXU4M/s1600/The-Byrds-Mr-Tambourine-Man.jpg)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 21, 2011, 02:40:58 AM
Nowhere Man - The Beatles very last early sounding song in my opinion. This would have fit nicely on ‘AHDN’. Has always been one of my favorites too. The harmonies don’t get much better than this. The acoustic and bass together sounds awesome. The ‘La La’s’ here sound great. I dig the guitar tone. The guitar solo is fantastic. Love the high guitar note at 1:02. Sweet. Speaking of the bass earlier, man Paul really rocks on this song. Never really noticed that before. Love Pauls voice at the end too. Another great song.

Nowhere Man - I love this song too and it's one of my favorites on this album.  We, here in the United States, had to wait until June, 1966 until it was released on “Yesterday” ...and Today.  

I feel a bit differently than you do about this song, tkitna.  I feel it was one of their first new-sounding songs.  Nowhere Man had nothing to do with love.  When I first heard it in the fall of 1965, I considered it a special song and I knew we were going to soon see a very different Beatles album.  And we did.  I had to buy the 45 RPM, which had What Goes On on the B side, to supplement my US version Rubber Soul.

I liked John's solo vocal and Paul and George's back up vocals.  And I too liked George's lead guitar.  I was just old enough at the time to understand the meaning of this song.  Today I associate Nowhere Man with my transition from adolescence to young adulthood.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 21, 2011, 04:37:35 AM
What Goes On - Ahhh, the album killer.

Well, at least it didn't kill the Capitol Rubber Soul album.  It wasn't on it.  ;)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 21, 2011, 02:55:37 PM
Drive My Car - For the United States, this was the first song on side 1 of the "Yesterday” ...and Today album.  It's a fun way to start off a record album.  At the time of its release, I was a little too young to catch the sexual inuendo.  When I finally did, I just laughed and remarked to myself that this was just something else The Beatles managed to put between the lines as would be evidenced many times thereafter.

I like the guitar riffs and vocals.  So does a local FM radio station that uses a segment of the song to introduce their traffic reports.  It's the Beep Beep Beep Beep Yeah! and subsequent guitar riff, tkitna.  And this has been going on now for years, so when I hear the song in its entirety I naturally appreciate that vocal more.

Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 12:14:00 AM
In My Life - This has been my favorite Beatles song for the longest time.  John was in a very reflective mood when he wrote this one.  At the time of its composition he expressed feelings not usually evident in songwriters of his vintage.  The beauty of this song is that it has taken on different meanings as I've grown older.

Everything fits together in this song: vocals, harmonies, guitar, bass, drums, piano, everything.  The slight crack in John's voice at the end belongs there.  It's an emotional moment for the singer.  The closing chord and its slight buzz made for a beautiful ending to a beautiful song.  It took me a while to get that buzz just right on my Country Gentleman.

I think In My Life should be listened to in mono to be fully appreciated.

THE BEATLES Remasters! /// 11. In My Life - (RUBBER SOUL) - (MONO Remastered 2009) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukbbPJirTaE#ws)

    
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 22, 2011, 02:03:09 AM
In My Life - This has been my favorite Beatles song for the longest time.  John was in a very reflective mood when he wrote this one.  
    

I believe it was joint effort by John & Paul, Paul writing much of the melody..

I was recently amazed to discover that Paul wrote Wait, I always thought that was a John song, apparently he wrote it when in the Bahama's filming Help.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 02:16:23 AM
Michelle - Here's a song that I finally learned how to play correctly on guitar when I was taking delta blues lessons from Ian Buchanan.  He watched me as I was warming up for a lesson one evening and said "No, play it like this."  He wasn't a Beatles fan but he knew, note for note, how it was played in the finger-picking style The Beatles used.

This is a gorgeous song with a beautiful guitar lead in and solo section.  Paul's voice is superb and John and George's backup vocals and harmony are beautiful.  I'll never tire of listening to or playing this song.  Any girl named Michelle should be ecstatic that such a song exists.  Well, except for my sister's friend Michelle who, years ago, I tried to impress by playing her the song.  And I really played my best too.  "That's nice," she said "but your sister and I have to get going to the Bowie concert now.  Bye!"
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 02:18:33 AM
Well, I learn something new every day, nimrod.  And about Wait too.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 22, 2011, 02:50:56 AM
I believe it was joint effort by John & Paul, Paul writing much of the melody..

I was recently amazed to discover that Paul wrote Wait, I always thought that was a John song, apparently he wrote it when in the Bahama's filming Help.

Actually "In My Life" is one of the two songs that John and Paul didn't agree about the songwriting credit (the other one is "Eleanor Rigby"). John said that Paul only helped in the middle-eight and Paul said that he wrote the whole melody.

JOHN (1980): "It was the first song I wrote that was consciously about my life. (Sings) 'There are places I'll remember/ All my life though some have changed...' Before, we were just writing songs a la Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly -- pop songs with no more thought to them than that. The words were almost irrelevant. 'In My Life' started out as a bus journey from my house at 250 Menlove Avenue to town, mentioning every place I could remember. I wrote it all down and it was ridiculous... it was the most boring sort of 'What I Did On My Holiday's Bus Trip' song and it wasn't working at all. But then I laid back and these lyrics started coming to me about the places I remember. Paul helped with the middle-eight. It was, I think, my first real major piece of work. Up till then it had all been sort of glib and throw-away. And that was the first time I consciously put my literary part of myself into the lyric."

PAUL (1984): "I think I wrote the tune to that; that's the one we slightly dispute. John either forgot or didn't think I wrote the tune. I remember he had the words, like a poem... sort of about faces he remembered. I recall going off for half an hour and sitting with a Mellotron he had, writing the tune... which was Miracles inspired, as I remember. In fact, a lot of stuff was then."


About "Wait", for what I know it's one of those songs that John and Paul wrote 50 and 50%.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 02:57:39 AM
What does Smokey say?    ;D

I prefer to believe John's story.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 22, 2011, 03:02:07 AM
I tend to believe John when it's about "In My Life" and I tend to believe Paul when it's about "Eleanor Rigby". Though maybe I'm biased because of who sings the lead vocal in each song.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 22, 2011, 03:06:07 AM
By the way, Paul mentioned a Mellotron. Did they have a Mellotron back in 1965?
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 03:19:20 AM
Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown) - This is another one of my favorites on Rubber Soul.  It was the first time I ever heard a sitar and I liked the sound it made.  It was easy to learn to play this one and I would down strum on the treble strings near the bridge to get a sitar effect.

I like John's vocal and Paul's backup harmony a lot.  Drums would have detracted from this song.  The tambourine and maracas sound just right.

When I hear early takes of this song, I'm happy The Beatles decided to limit the amount of sitar on this song...

Norwegian Wood - The Beatles (Take1) Anthology ll Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYJmktPgjDo#)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 03:24:45 AM
By the way, Paul mentioned a Mellotron. Did they have a Mellotron back in 1965?

From Wikipedia:

Mike Pinder of The Moody Blues had done an 18-month stint as an employee of Streetly Electronics as a quality control and test driver. He later made the mellotron a "signature sound" for the Moody Blues (at a later time, the instrument was even called the "Pindertron"). Pinder used it extensively and systematically on almost each of their songs from 1966 to 1972 ("Love And Beauty", "Nights In White Satin", "Question", "I'm Just a Singer (In a Rock and Roll Band)", etc. Pinder claims to have introduced John Lennon and Paul McCartney to the Mellotron, though they had heard of it before Pinder's mention. Pinder tried to convince the Beatles to begin to use the instrument on their songs.

After visiting the Mellotron studios on August 12, 1965, John Lennon bought one for use in his Weybridge home, and it was received on August 16, 1965. The Beatles first use of Mellotron sounds was on the song Tomorrow Never Knows where they used reel to reel recorders to record Mellotron brass and string sounds which, along with other sounds, were then brought into the studio. The heavy weight of the Mellotron prevented the machine from easily being transported. The Beatles hired in a machine and subsequently (and more prominently) used it on their psychedelic rock single "Strawberry Fields Forever" (recorded November–December 1966). The Beatles continued to compose and record with various Mellotrons for the albums "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band", "Magical Mystery Tour", and "The Beatles" (White Album).


Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 22, 2011, 03:36:40 AM
So that might have been one of their very first uses of the Mellotron, writing the melody of "In My Life" according to Paul.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 03:41:01 AM
Or just the middle-eight, according to John.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 22, 2011, 03:42:14 AM
Right.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 04:03:01 AM
The Word - That's George Martin on the harmonium, tkitna.  I agree with everything you've said about this song and can only add that I like the quick piano intro too.

The mono version sounds much tighter and fuller in my opinion...

THE BEATLES Remasters! /// 6. The Word - (RUBBER SOUL) - (MONO Remastered 2009) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl47Fojbfo4#ws)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 04:13:01 AM
(http://i56.tinypic.com/s5fv9s.jpg)





Steve Earle & bluegras dukes - I'm looking through you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4YSF-mB3dQ#)




(http://i51.tinypic.com/w7z9xv.jpg)




                           
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 04:40:58 AM
You Won't See Me - This song is pure "ear candy" with its beautiful double-tracked Paul vocal and multi-tracked backup harmony vocals by John and George.  The ooh-ooh-la-la-las fit this song and keep the non-stop rich vocals going continuously.  I like Ringos drumming and I like the outro with yet another track of Paul now backing up the ooh-ooh-la-la-las .

What an amazing song!

What an amazing album!!!
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 05:50:13 AM
Think For Yourself - George is becoming a good songwriter now.  I like this song and Paul's fuzz bass.  George's vocal is perfect.

Strains of this song were used in Yellow Submarine.  I nearly flipped when I heard that in the movie theater when the movie was released.  It was a three year throwback but it fit right into the movie.

Yellow Submarine Part 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAYm0Jwpfw4#)

Do I hear music?
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: tkitna on April 22, 2011, 05:57:12 AM
I think its funny that John nor Paul could actually really remember who did what on some of the songs. Thats was a long time ago with lots of drugs and a lot of songs to sift their minds through.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 06:04:54 AM
If I Needed Someone - Here's another song from George that I really like, especially that 12-string Rick riff which plays throughout the song.  John and Paul provide perfect harmony to George's great lead vocal.  This is more ear candy on my favorite Beatles album,
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 06:20:08 AM
Girl - Here's another song I learned to play on guitar early on because it was fun singing to, in a plaintive fashion.  If I happened to be playing it out on my college campus mall, it never failed to attract others who would gleefully add the tit tit tits.  I never learned to play that great guitar solo. 

It's never to late to learn!   ;)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 06:30:50 AM
Run For Your Life - I, too, cannot understand why so many deride this song.  Sure it's chauvinistic, but John was expressing out loud feelings which everyone has experienced.

It's George's lead guitar which makes it for me.  Add John's fine rhythm guitar and Paul's harmony vocals and the result is another of my favorite songs on Rubber Soul and a nice way to end this, my favorite Beatles album.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 06:44:29 AM
Wait, I almost forgot to comment on Wait - It's another fine love song with lead vocals shared by Paul and John.  I like Ringo's drumming and tambourine (he used it often on this album and I like that) and George's lead guitar.  I always liked the quick two note guitar ending.  When I heard that, I knew that Run For Your Life was next up and would be thinking if I had the time to play the album a second time.


(http://www.rockbandbeatlesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Rubber-Soul-DLC.jpg)

Look how only John is looking at the camera.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: glass onion on April 22, 2011, 02:41:30 PM
ok,rubber soul.the first album i owned on vinyl.my brother is a big rolling stones fan,he gave me his copy of rubber soul,i was 12 or 13 years old,so it would have been 1986ish.i can safely say this album changed my musical life,i listened to this album so much,and i know it absolutely inside out and back to front.firstly folks i think george plays bass on 'drive my car'.it sounds like paul on guitar-this is the first album that george starts annoying paul and vice-versa.standouts on the album for me are 'nowhere man',beautiful.lovely bass playing from paul.'the word' is a top song with ringo playing great.'think for yourself' absolutely knocks spots off 'if i needed someone'.'think for yourself is one of my faves on the album.also 'girl','in my life'(sublime),'i'm looking through you'(although i prefer the anthology version with no middle 8),'you won't see me' is fantastic.to me,the record is as good as revolver.i think the production on revolver is superior.i know the majority of fans plump for 'revolver' every time,and it is a monster.i just reckon 'rubber soul' is there with it.for every song you name on 'revolver' i can call a song off of 'rubber soul' to rival it.so rubber soul......big melodies,bigger haircuts,better touring suits.and the sleeve is better than revolvers' as well.THIS album is where it all begins for me.the beatles' ride is now firmly 'on'.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 22, 2011, 04:04:44 PM
There's a common mistake about who played the bass on "Drive My Car". Some sources said that it was George, but it was actually Paul, no other Beatle played the bass until the White Album. I think that the mistake came from misunderstanding these George's words from 1977:

"If Paul had written a song, he'd learn all the parts and then come in the studio and say 'Do this.' He'd never give you the opportunity to come out with something. But on 'Drive My Car' I just played the line, which is really like a lick off 'Respect,' you know, the Otis Redding version. And I played the line on the guitar and Paul laid that with me on the bass. We laid that track down like that. We played the lead part later on top of it."

When George said "Paul laid that with me on the bass" it may seem that he's saying that he played the bass because of the "with me on the bass", but it actually means "Paul laid that on the bass with me". George just played guitar as he said in the same sentence, the same line that Paul played on the bass. Paul also played the lead guitar solo.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: glass onion on April 22, 2011, 04:36:51 PM
paul states george played bass on 'she said she said'.he had a row with the other three and stormed out over something or other.you can tell a paul bassline pretty easily.it could be paul or george on bass for 'drive my car'.it sounds more unpaul-like on 'she said she said' but this is guessing really.i can't pretend to be an expert,and you may well be right.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 22, 2011, 04:46:33 PM
I'm not an expert too, and I didn't know that about "She Said She Said". But I'm pretty sure that Paul played bass on "Drive My Car", at least from what George said.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 22, 2011, 10:21:12 PM
If I Needed Someone - Here's another song from George that I really like, especially that 12-string Rick riff which plays throughout the song.  John and Paul provide perfect harmony to George's great lead vocal.  This is more ear candy on my favorite Beatles album,

George's first great song IMO


Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 22, 2011, 11:17:06 PM
George's first great song IMO


It deserves a listen...

THE BEATLES Remasters! /// 13. If I Needed Someone - (RUBBER SOUL) - (MONO Remastered 2009) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wW25CWFXyw#ws)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: tkitna on April 22, 2011, 11:28:29 PM
for every song you name on 'revolver' i can call a song off of 'rubber soul' to rival it..

I know its all just opinions, but after I review Revolver, i'm going to hold you to this.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 23, 2011, 12:50:51 AM
I was just listening to the album (first time in a long time) and Ive only just realized that The Word is basically a 12 bar blues..

Was this the first song about 'universal love', the first hippy anthem ?
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 23, 2011, 01:23:41 AM
I'm not sure which song was the first but Chet Powers (aka Dino Valenti) wrote and recorded Let's Get Together in 1964...

Dino Valenti - Let's Get Together (1964) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jQV30mKW6c#ws)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: glass onion on April 23, 2011, 06:19:11 PM
I know its all just opinions, but after I review Revolver, i'm going to hold you to this.
well,it is all just opinion todd.....i am under no illusion that 99.9% of beatle fans will favour revolver over rubber soul,and in my head i don't blame them.i have always been a bit 'maverick' in my music tastes...how many peoples' fave beatle song is 'yes it is'?.not many,but it's mine,that's for sure.i listened to revolver again yesterday and i had forgotten how good it is.however,i personally feel that rubber soul is as strong in it's own way.so i am fully expecting to be gunned down during the revolver reviews!!my head says revolver,my heart says rubber soul.bring it on!! ;D
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 23, 2011, 07:32:32 PM
I guess I'm in the .1%

 ;D
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: tkitna on April 23, 2011, 09:42:28 PM
so i am fully expecting to be gunned down during the revolver reviews!!my head says revolver,my heart says rubber soul.bring it on!! ;D

Lol. You wont be getting gunned down. Its impossible when theres no facts behind any of it. I do think we will have an entertainig conversation though. Oh its on alright. I'm hitting the gym right now.  ;D
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Mr Mustard on April 23, 2011, 10:13:22 PM
I guess I'm in the .1%

 ;D

I'm right there with you HG  ;)


This is the point at which the Beatles evolved seamlessly from a great pop singles group who released wonderful song collections on their LPs, into a polished album band who still happened to have the knack of releasing great singles. Rubber Soul is a sumptuous album which I really never tire of hearing. If pressed I’d have to vote it as my favourite of the fab four’s original LPs. It takes a few giant strides forward from its predecessors yet retains that inimitably catchy, charmingly accessible Beatle sound, which was by now maturing and expanding to absorb myriad outside influences whilst pushing the boundaries to break new musical ground of its own.  A thoughtful, beautifully textured record with real emotional depth... The Beatles were now über cool and impeccably on top of their game.

Drive My Car – A suitably confident, richly layered opener, I struggled for a long time to put my finger on what irritated me about this track, which I have long regarded as a sort of watered down ‘Day Tripper’. And now I’ve realised the one thing I dislike about it – and to my surprise, the fly in the ointment is Paul’s vocal. The chorus is great. The falsetto “Beep beep! Beep beep! Yeah!” is fun and cool. But McCartney’s faux-soul/ quasi-American lead singing on the verses – reminiscent of that odd “accent” he tries to adopt on ‘She’s A Woman’ - nearly spoils the whole song for me. Fortunately it’s redeemed by George’s strident guitar solo, Ringo’s excellent drumming and tambourine and Paul’s apposite piano lines (I’m convinced it’s McCartney on bass here by the way).

Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown) – One of the highlights of the album, here’s another song where precise authorship contributions were disputed. John claimed the song was 100% his and it is certainly Lennon who predominates lyrically (via a delightful, gently descending double tracked lead vocal) throughout. Yet the rising middle eight and the short story format (complete with arsonist punch line which Paul claimed to have suggested) smack of a greater McCartney input than is usually acknowledged. Suddenly our moptops were singing about illicit sexual affairs and spiteful revenge... and to raise eyebrows even further, introducing Indian sitar music into their songs! I agree with Hello Goodbye - The amount of sitar on the finished article was perfect; its presence lifts the whole song, but  any more would have swamped a truly beautiful melody.

You Won’t See Me – Far too good to be regarded as “filler” (they had pretty much outgrown such things by now) this track nevertheless seems – despite being a decent enough number – almost pedestrian by their own newly elevated standards. A sort of updated ‘No Reply’, it lacks that track’s urgency but instead serves up a kind of weary sulkiness. Nevertheless, great interplay of piano, guitar and bass, and Paul’s vocal is terrific. The same can’t be said of the “ooh la la la” backing from John and George which seems to stray off key and drags on forever (especially in the overly extended fade out). A cool track but for me the song is about one chorus too long.

Nowhere Man – another album highlight. In contrast to its predecessor, the backing vocals here are superb, and coupled with George’s crystal- crisp, ringing guitar solo and John’s mesmerising delivery on lead vocal, a beautifully crafted masterpiece emerges combining the various strengths of each Beatle in perfect measure. I’ve always loved that little “twinkle” at 1:05. What IS that?

Think For Yourself – George’s songwriting was blossoming now and in this first of two fine offerings he provides a wonderfully mordant vocal to deliver a deliciously cynical set of cleverly constructed lyrics. Love Paul’s harmony on this one. Great use of fuzz box and nice touches from Ringo on tambourine and maracas all of which combine to add delicious texture to this underrated track.

The Word – The Beatles were openly proud of their willingness to absorb and assimilate the modern/rival influences around them, yet somehow always seemed to be several steps ahead of the game. This growing awareness was perhaps never more evident than on ‘The Word’ which seems at least a year and a half ahead of its time by alerting their enchanted public to the hippy ideal yet to come. Paul’s jerky piano and Ringo’s fills are great here, as is George’s tumbling guitar line and the harmonium (?) towards the end. Love the three way falsetto vocals at the finale. John’s lines “Now that I know that a Beatle must be right, I’m here to show everybody the light” could have been the album’s subtitle, as the group’s epiphany is delivered to the listening masses on another cool and underrated track which highlights the effortlessly instinctive blend of vocal harmonies commanded by John, Paul and George.

Michelle – an exquisite jewel fashioned mainly by Paul (with, apparently, more than a little input from John), for me this gorgeous, yearning love song knocks spots of the grotesquely overrated ‘Yesterday’ which it rivals as a Beatles “standard”.  The two songs bear further comparison in that the Rubber Soul track, like its more famous predecessor, is virtually a McCartney solo outing (I gather he recorded and overdubbed most, if not all, of the musical parts himself) but for the fact that it does feature truly sumptuous harmony vocals from John and George. As for the smooth French lyric...well, these truly are words that go together well. A beautiful finale to side one.

What Goes On – Somehow (in my opinion at least) Ringo just about pulls this one off successfully, despite superficial similarities to the woeful ‘Act Naturally’. Is it due to the songwriting presence of Lennon & McCartney? The absence (or lower mix?) of Paul’s gawky harmony vocal so irritatingly evident on the ‘Help!’ side two opener? The surrounding quality of Rubber Soul’s other tracks rubbing off on the listener and softening the critical mood? I think even if this had appeared on Help! I still wouldn’t have minded it, and would have certainly preferred it to ‘Act Naturally’. Whatever it is, this bouncy singalong somehow manages to absorb a certain degree of the coolness surrounding it on this album. But if there’s any filler at all on Rubber Soul, then it has to be here. 

Girl – Yes, it’s John’s reply to Michelle, with a Germanic two-step in answer to Paul’s lovely little French vignette. With the hiss of breath, sighing vocal and “tit tit tit” harmony, Lennon barely conceals the repressed sexual yearning evident throughout this sumptuous little gem of a track. I am ignorant of musical instrumentation so don’t know what was employed to achieve that Bavarian sound interspersed with the cymbals towards the song’s climax, but the effect is mesmerising. A lovely song and yet another album highlight.

I’m Looking Through You – A rather feisty protestation from Paul, presumably experiencing choppy waters in his hot/cold relationship with Jane Asher which translates here to a correspondingly choppy acoustic (initially) number which proceeds to embrace a waspish organ and a pugnacious chorus vocal delivered with gusto by McCartney. I love the “why, tell me why” bits. A snappy track which fits well on the album. Amongst many great things about Rubber Soul is Paul’s adoption of a harder, Lennonesque edge to some of his material – alongside a coincidental mellowing of some of John’s own material with a McCartneyish flavour which knocks some of the rough edges off those contributions.  They seemed to draw the best influences from one another here and with super confident input from Ringo and George throughout the album they rarely sounded better as a GROUP in the real sense of the word.

In My Life – This hauntingly poignant track is a true gem, not just from Rubber Soul, but from the entire Beatles canon. It steers clear of sentimentality with grace and dignity to deliver a wonderfully reflective elegy, bolstered of course by that magnificent electric piano solo from George Martin, recorded at half speed to imbue it with that glistening baroque harpsichord quality. The lyrics are superb and handled with vocal aplomb as usual by John. The little bells and percussive touches from Ringo add so much. ‘In My Life’ is a deeply introspective jewel which brings real depth and gravity to an already marvellous album.

Wait – A leftover from the “Help!” sessions, this track fits snugly at home on Rubber Soul. Once again Ringo’s drumming and percussive talents come to the fore as maracas and that ubiquitous tambourine add texture to a track which has the fingerprints of John and Paul in equal measure all over it.  A rare (by now) example of a 50/50 composition employing both Lennon and McCartney on jointly double tracked lead vocals to great effect. I love the changes in tempo between verse and chorus and that brilliant tidal wash of a guitar ending. Tends to be underrated this one, I think.

If I Needed Someone – Superb. One of my favourite tracks on the album and George’s best work to date, even if I give the edge lyrically to ‘Think For Yourself’. It has to be that glittering guitar that makes all the difference here; it’s quite outstanding and forms a sparkling counterpoint to Harrison’s confident vocal pattern which culminates in a thrilling three part harmony with Paul and John.  There is the burgeoning influence of Indian music buried within this and George repays compliments to The Byrds,  as others have already pointed out (by the way, that’s the same Byrds who only came into being thanks to their awestruck devotion to George’s twelve string Rickenbacker sound on ‘A Hard Day’s Night’  ;)).

Run For Your Life – Lennon himself despised this song and took every opportunity in later years to disparage it. Which is a shame, since it adds real bite and forms a wonderfully lascivious finale to the album (ironically it was the first track specifically recorded for Rubber Soul). John’s vicious lyrics and black humour reach a threatening new peak on this sinister outing, magnified by a vocal which is very high up in the mix and with a suitably venomous harmony from Paul.  The “no no no” vocal fade out always sounds like Micky Dolenz of The Monkees to me!

Big hair and suede jackets plus a groovy, distorted album sleeve (their best in my opinion) package together the greatest slice of Beatles fare served up to date. It’s no coincidence that the red 1962-66 compilation (for many people the definitive introduction to the group’s canon of work) features no fewer than six helpings from Rubber Soul.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 23, 2011, 11:13:25 PM
I’m Looking Through You – A rather feisty protestation from Paul, presumably experiencing choppy waters in his hot/cold relationship with Jane Asher which translates here to a correspondingly choppy acoustic (initially) number...

Oh, I'm sure that's what it was all about all right.  Jane was definitely his muse.  We have lots of great Beatles songs thanks to her.



I love the “why, tell me why” bits. A snappy track which fits well on the album. Amongst many great things about Rubber Soul is Paul’s adoption of a harder, Lennonesque edge to some of his material – alongside a coincidental mellowing of some of John’s own material with a McCartneyish flavour which knocks some of the rough edges off those contributions.

I feel the "why tell me whys" tempered this song.  "Take 1" is no doubt how he really felt at the time.  I think Paul squirreled take 1 away so as not to antagonize Jane Asher. 

Why tell me why did he have John sing Every Little Thing?
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 23, 2011, 11:20:04 PM
Quote
I am ignorant of musical instrumentation so don’t know what was employed to achieve that Bavarian sound interspersed with the cymbals towards the song’s climax, but the effect is mesmerising

First of all, a great review Mr Mustard  ;)

I believe the instrument in question was a Greek string guitar type thing called a bazouki.

btw didnt Paul play the guitar solo on Drive My Car ? I always thought he did (maybe Ive always been wrong)  ???
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 24, 2011, 12:39:17 AM
Rubber Soul for most Beatle nuts (like me) is when the Merseybeat stopped and the ' were becoming serious artists' phase clicked in.
What we see here is growth growth growth, not just in songs (there are still love songs aplenty) but in sounds, the sound - is getting seriously different. I think this is where experimentation began, suddenly a normal piano sound was old hat and what happens if we put it through a guitar amp with full treble, Mike the drums differently, take the bass higher, fuzz bass, sitar etc of course they would take things a lot further on Revolver and Pepper but this is where they dipped their toe's so to speak and I think this one might be, more than any of their other albums, the biggest indicator of their musical progress. Even a song like 'Wait', with its catchy chorus, cool contrast between the semi-accappella verses and powerful refrain, and strangely dramatic ending, I'd never heard a song end like that !
I absolutely love Rubber Soul, yes there are 2 duds on it (What Goes On & Run For Your Life) and for once I wish they would have incorporated the single A & B sides to make the album more complete and bin the 2 duds.
But its a masterpiece.
 
John & George have moved on considerably.....in stark contrast, Paul seems to be procrastinating a little. Tunes like 'You Won't See Me' and 'I'm Looking Through You' are perfect pop songs, no doubt about it, and feature lyrics that are far less cliched than, say, 'Another Girl' - and seem to make a big self-conscious deal about being more mature with lines like "I have had enough, so act your age" and "you don't look different, but you have changed" . In fact, melodically 'Im Looking Through You' is one of my absolute favs of the period. But if we're after real growth, we're not getting it here. And we're not even getting it on 'Michelle', really, because incorporating elements of French just takes the level of Schmooz up a level but musically its nothing new, Paul did show us though with songs like Michelle what a masterful writer he is.
Pauls big track on here though is Drive My Car, where genre's and expectations between them get jumbled up in a kind of farcical black comedy, Im not surprised they opened up with this soulful rocker, even though it was normally a John rocker that opened the albums..anyway this track shows definite growth as a sonwriter by Paul.

George has real growth on RS too, no longer a B grade writer, both his songs on here show better writing and deeper lyrics 'about the good things we can have if we close our eyes'.....great!
I also think If I Needed Someone was his best so far.......both songs show a new deeper George, a strangeness all of his own, the dark horse is born......'carve your number on my wall and maybe you will get a call from me'. Another great touch from him it has to be said is the sitar on Norwegian Wood, its perfect, it just adds to the song but doesnt dominate in any way, he was no Ravi but good enough to pull this off.

BUT.....the big growth has to be John. Deep inward looking songs like In My Life, Girl, Nowhere Man, and the masterful Norwegian Wood, just that first line..'I once had a girl..or should I say she once had me' is pure genius, and what a sublime guitar tone adopted, simple yet effective, shallow but ohh so deep, played with such delicacy. Two other John songs - 'Girl' and 'In My Life' have become alleged classics as well. There's little I can say about either, except that the devils in the detail of course: for 'Girl', it's the "deep air intake" between the two 'girl... girl' parts of the chorus, (and the Bazouki) and for 'In My Life', it's the falsetto coda. These are the tiny asymmetrical parts that add true perfection to the already formally perfect buildings.....and isnt it wonderful how its a love song but comes across as a song of nostalgia or one's growing up.
Above all on this record John showed his genius, he showed what a poet and deep thinker he was, he was ahead of Paul (that wouldnt last forever though) in the game and would be for some time. A true visionary, he would lead popular music down a different path, a path that would lead to strange places like Strawberry Fields and take people like me (who were just the right age) with him.

Rubber Soul was the beginning of the Beatles as great artists, the moptops were no more.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 24, 2011, 03:03:31 AM
...the moptops were no more.

How true!
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 24, 2011, 03:17:14 AM
Oooh!  I never commented on Think For Yourself - It was the fuzz box that first caught my attention.  After a few plays, I realized it was a pretty good song by George Harrison.  Sometimes I react to songs that way.

Thie same thing happened with Mean Mr. Mustard.   ;D
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 24, 2011, 03:24:23 AM
by the way, that’s the same Byrds who only came into being thanks to their awestruck devotion to George’s twelve string Rickenbacker sound on ‘A Hard Day’s Night’

That's true, it was like a chain of influences that shaped the 1960's music, as A Hard Day's Night led to Mr. Tambourine Man, which in turn led to Rubber Soul, which in turn led to Pet Sounds, which finally led to Sgt. Pepper's changing the concept of rock music forever.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 24, 2011, 03:30:15 AM
Right and double right!

;) 
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Bobber on April 24, 2011, 09:54:10 AM
well,it is all just opinion todd.....i am under no illusion that 99.9% of beatle fans will favour revolver over rubber sou


Check it out! : http://beatlesbattle.com/ (http://beatlesbattle.com/)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 25, 2011, 04:35:26 AM
Thanks, Bobber. 

Now that's more like it!
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: tkitna on April 26, 2011, 12:32:45 AM
Check it out! : [url]http://beatlesbattle.com/[/url] ([url]http://beatlesbattle.com/[/url])


Revolver won 17 - 6 for me, but i'll be getting to that either Thursday or Friday.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 26, 2011, 04:38:46 AM
Rubber Soul won 7-5 for me.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 26, 2011, 06:55:55 AM
RS = 13
Revolver = 9
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: glass onion on April 26, 2011, 08:12:01 AM
i have just done the test and revolver came out on top,9-7.which is actualyy closer than i thought it would be.i think the songs on revolver just have the edge on rubber soul,i think revolver is recorded better than rubber soul....but the albums are really kind of equal in my heart.or that is a little fib.......i do prefer rubber soul.but revolver is so good.......if anybody needs to question why the beatles were the best band,put these two albums on for a kick-off.no arguments.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Bobber on April 26, 2011, 08:18:25 AM
One of The Beatles, I believe George or Paul, called the albums Rubber Soul 1 and Rubber Soul 2.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Ovi on April 26, 2011, 08:50:09 AM
One of The Beatles, I believe George or Paul, called the albums Rubber Soul 1 and Rubber Soul 2.

"I don't see too much difference between Revolver and Rubber Soul," George Harrison once said. "To me, they could be Volume One and Volume Two."  :)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: glass onion on April 26, 2011, 09:09:19 AM
"I don't see too much difference between Revolver and Rubber Soul," George Harrison once said. "To me, they could be Volume One and Volume Two."  :)
i'm not sure about that.i don't want to question georges' wisdom on beatle matters,of course not,but i don't know if the albums sound very similar?perhaps george was implying that it was a very good writing and recording period around the two albums?i think he said he enjoyed the recording of the two albums,which is in stark contrast to peppers,where he was far more withdrawn.however,we have yet to get to that stage. :)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: peterbell1 on April 26, 2011, 09:16:48 AM
One of The Beatles, I believe George or Paul, called the albums Rubber Soul 1 and Rubber Soul 2.

Yeah, I never agreed with George on that one.
For me, it's mainly because of the development in the John songs across the two albums that Revolver is a leap forward from Rubber Soul.
He goes from the slower, more acoustic sounds of Norwegian Wood, In My Life and Girl to the electric guitar sounds and trippy vocals of She Said She Said, Tomorrow Never Knows and And Your Bird Can Sing. It's these John songs that make Revolver such a great LP for me, only just ahead of RS, but ahead nonetheless.

George is also showing a marked development and this is proven by the fact that he gets three songs on Revolver, up from just one on RS, and these three include Love You To, which is way different to anything else they've attempted previously.

The Paul songs, however, could pretty much be switched across the two albums without anyone noticing - sonically they seem to fit into both camps. He seems to be showing less development song-wise and in the recording studio than his two bandmates (although Paperback Writer from the same sessions is certainly a step forward). They are all still great songs, but if you look at the Paul songs across RS and Revolver then, yes, George could be on to something with his Vol 1 and Vol 2 quote.

And Ringo .... well, the less said about Ringo's songs the better  ;D
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: glass onion on April 26, 2011, 12:26:00 PM
mmmmmm,not sure peter.i think pauls' writing around this period was second to none and probably the strongest in the band.when todd reveiws revolver we can share more opinions.lots of stuff paul did on revolver was a big leap also, in my opinion.but yes....lets say that john was at a peak here in 65/66(another of my opinions)and george was holding his own,although i do not get the big attraction to 'if i needed someone',a song i always found slightly dull when up against 'think for yourself'.songs like 'nowhere man','in my life','girl',you would have to really go some to top these absolute corkers,and all on the same album.not to mention 'norweigan wood' or 'the word'.crikey,scary scary good album.then pauls' stuff on top as well?no wonder people put rubber soul in their favourite beatle albums.this is why i always argue rubber souls' corner,i have done it in threads before and i will continue to do so.the only filler i can see is 'wait' (which is a strong filler) and 'what goes on' (which is ringo's bit and that is o.k).the album never got tired for me.it is there in my top 3,and i like all of the albums the band released.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: peterbell1 on April 26, 2011, 12:41:28 PM
"I don't see too much difference between Revolver and Rubber Soul," George Harrison once said. "To me, they could be Volume One and Volume Two."  :)


http://www.thebeatles.com/#/video/Revolver_Mini_Documentary (http://www.thebeatles.com/#/video/Revolver_Mini_Documentary)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: peterbell1 on April 26, 2011, 12:59:46 PM
mmmmmm,not sure peter.i think pauls' writing around this period was second to none and probably the strongest in the band.when todd reveiws revolver we can share more opinions.lots of stuff paul did on revolver was a big leap also, in my opinion.but yes....lets say that john was at a peak here in 65/66(another of my opinions)and george was holding his own,although i do not get the big attraction to 'if i needed someone',a song i always found slightly dull when up against 'think for yourself'.songs like 'nowhere man','in my life','girl',you would have to really go some to top these absolute corkers,and all on the same album.not to mention 'norweigan wood' or 'the word'.crikey,scary scary good album.then pauls' stuff on top as well?no wonder people put rubber soul in their favourite beatle albums.this is why i always argue rubber souls' corner,i have done it in threads before and i will continue to do so.the only filler i can see is 'wait' (which is a strong filler) and 'what goes on' (which is ringo's bit and that is o.k).the album never got tired for me.it is there in my top 3,and i like all of the albums the band released.

Oh yeah, I'm not trying to put RS down - I absolutely love it - it's just that Revolver is more my kind of thing, coz I'm into that kind of "She Said She Said" guitar sound. If I ever made my own album I would want the guitars to sound like they do on Revolver.  ;D

And I'm also not putting down Paul's songwriting - Here There and Everywhere, for example, is one of my all-time favourite songs by anyone, ever. I just think that he was possibly sticking a little more to the tried-and-tested formula through RS and Revolver and then he opened up more for Pepper, where John and George were happy to be more experimental on record well before that.

To think that Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sgt Pepper were written and recorded within less than two years of each other - there are bands now that don't even put out one album every two years never mind three of the greatest albums ever.
Rubber Soul is a hugely important album for The Beatles because it took them away from the moptop Beatles, yet it was still commercially successful, so it opened them up to go on and achieve even greater things. They knew the public were still behind them and could go with their experimentation in the studio. If RS had been a commercial flop then maybe Revolver/Pepper etc never would have happened.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: glass onion on April 26, 2011, 01:41:04 PM
yeah,good answer.i don't think the guitar sound on revolver has ever been bettered.....i am not an electric guitar player so i don't know too much,but that lovely,valvey slightly overloaded sound is amazing.you are also probably correct in stating that john and george were more experimental than paul at that time but let's not forget that they were paul's loops there on tomorrow never knows,he would have been in there with a big hand and a big shout.
i also never thought about the trio of soul/revolver/peppers being within a two year period.incredible.the leaps made were astounding really....from dizzy miss lizzy to strawberry fields in about a year and a half,anyone?great answer peter.....thumbs up buddy. ;)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 26, 2011, 02:11:27 PM
I think that Rubber Soul was John's peak as a songwriter ("Norwegian Wood", "In My Life", "Nowhere Man", "Girl") while Revolver was Paul's peak ("Eleanor Rigby", "Here, There And Everywhere", "For No One", "Got To Get You Into My Life"). I love John's tracks on Revolver (actually "Tomorrow Never Knows" is my favourite song ever), but they stand out more because of their innovative sound than because of the songwriting ("I'm Only Sleeping", "She Said She Said"), and some of them are just fillers ("And Your Bird Can Sing", "Doctor Robert"). I said this in another thread, I think that Rubber Soul is the album with the best songs while Revolver is sonically the most revolutionary album ever.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Mr Mustard on April 26, 2011, 03:15:43 PM

And I'm also not putting down Paul's songwriting - Here There and Everywhere, for example, is one of my all-time favourite songs by anyone, ever. I just think that he was possibly sticking a little more to the tried-and-tested formula through RS and Revolver and then he opened up more for Pepper, where John and George were happy to be more experimental on record well before that.


That's just the way I see it too Peter. John's contributions to Revolver are the ones that make me sit up and take notice...Paul's, superb as they (mostly) are, do not seem to leap forwards from the previous album in the same way and in some cases would sit comfortably on Rubber Soul or even (dare I say this?) Help! Didn't John and George embrace LSD about a year earlier than Paul? McCartney's sense of hesitancy...trepidation even... is almost palpable.

That's not to say it's an entirely bad thing by the way... you could do much, much worse than stick to writing gorgeous love songs. And an albumsworth full of 'Tomorrow Never Knows' style experimentation would have been unlistenable back then.

But whereas John and Paul took the best influences from one another into their own respective tracks on Rubber Soul ( McCartneyesque Lennon and Lennonesque McCartney gave that album a wonderfully rounded, coherent, integrated feel) clear blue water opened up between them on Revolver. Lennon's stuff sounded like nothing before and the overall flavour of Revolver, though brilliant, was much more disjointed. Listening to 'She Said She Said' and 'Good Day Sunshine' is like listening to two different albums, they don't have the same overall feel to them like the tracks throughout Rubber Soul do. And that's even before we get to George! Revolver pulls in at least three different directions at once and I'm never really ready for that until The White Album where, on a grander scale sprawled across a lavish double LP set, it works much better.

By the way, thanks to Bobber for the voting link...Rubber Soul beat Revolver 9 - 4 for me. It's obviously a flawed system putting the two running sequences head to head (and with a very limited +/- 2 range to vote on) if there was an "overall" vote button I suspect RS would be even further ahead for me.

A couple of contentious points to finish on...

Rubber Soul is far more like a vastly improved, deeper, richer, more mature and well polished "Help!" Volume Two than a "Revolver" Volume One in my opinion. Revolver is just so different to every album before or since (and, though stupendously good, is for me their most overrated album by quite some margin). But check out those moptops in the "Help!" movie 'Intermission' in their suede jackets larking about amongst the bluebells...they could be from Rubber Soul. By Revolver there were big collared paisley shirts and tinted granny glasses. The changes were much more obvious.

And Revolver must have the worst, most amateurishly doodled, dull, cobbled-together kid's scrapbook mishmash type LP cover they ever allowed to be put out (yes, I know it's some people's favourite). Sorry Klaus, I think it's bloody awful!!
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 26, 2011, 04:37:45 PM
I think we all tend to give full credit of a song writing, recording and production only to the main writer of the song. As if all the innovation of John's songs in Revolver depended only on him and not on the other Beatles and George Martin. Sure, John was more opened to experimentation than any other Beatle (and that's why he's my favourite), but the others also gave their contributions either by the way they played their instruments or giving ideas (and John was more opened to other's ideas than Paul). That's why lately I changed my mind about how we must judge the artists about their songs: the songwriting is full credit to its author, but the sound depends on every member of the band and the producer. For example, if John's songs from Revolver were recorded the same way the songs were recorded in Rubber Soul, they wouldn't have been as resonant as they were. On the other side, I find John's Rubber Soul contributions as resonant by themselves, brilliant songwriting; I mean, they were also cleverly recorded and produced, but they are better songs in my opinion.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: glass onion on April 26, 2011, 05:37:36 PM
i have to say that these opinions have absolutely floored me.i would have put my house on most fans favouring revolver over rubber soul,but it seems that isn't the case.i am very surprised at this.i do feel a lot of revolvers' charm is in the sound....those lovely guitars,pauls' bass a little more prominent,and ringos' drum sound is lovely and sharp compared to the more pudding sound of rubber soul.i thought revolver had the edge songs-wise when i put them side by side with rubber souls'.......well,it just goes to show that my wisdom isn't all that!!what a fantastic thread,i am loving this.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 26, 2011, 11:51:56 PM
I think that Rubber Soul was John's peak as a songwriter ("Norwegian Wood", "In My Life", "Nowhere Man", "Girl") while Revolver was Paul's peak ("Eleanor Rigby", "Here, There And Everywhere", "For No One", "Got To Get You Into My Life"). I love John's tracks on Revolver (actually "Tomorrow Never Knows" is my favourite song ever), but they stand out more because of their innovative sound than because of the songwriting ("I'm Only Sleeping", "She Said She Said"), and some of them are just fillers ("And Your Bird Can Sing", "Doctor Robert").

I absolutely agree with this hombre..

Revolver for me, is very much Pauls album. I was trying to say in my post earlier that Paul was the one who wasnt 'moving on' much but the melodies he wrote on Revolver we gobsmackingly superb, very very strong, whereas Johns songs were quite weak (melodywise).
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: tkitna on April 27, 2011, 12:34:30 AM
That's just the way I see it too Peter. John's contributions to Revolver are the ones that make me sit up and take notice...Paul's, superb as they (mostly) are, do not seem to leap forwards from the previous album in the same way and in some cases would sit comfortably on Rubber Soul or even (dare I say this?) Help!

Yes! This comment says a lot. It even rehashes my opinion that HELP! and Rubber Soul are the albums that should be compared and that HELP! was the true turning point for them.

You guys are killing me. I'm sitting here, biting my nails because I want to talk about Revolver and some comparisons, but it would ruin the whole review. I'll get it up as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 27, 2011, 01:36:33 AM
Yes! This comment says a lot. It even rehashes my opinion that HELP! and Rubber Soul are the albums that should be compared and that HELP! was the true turning point for them.

You guys are killing me. I'm sitting here, biting my nails because I want to talk about Revolver and some comparisons, but it would ruin the whole review. I'll get it up as soon as possible.


now your being completely silly  ;D
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 27, 2011, 02:17:06 AM
I like And Your Bird Can Sing and Doctor Robert.  I don't think they're fillers.

 ;D

Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 27, 2011, 03:21:42 AM
I like And Your Bird Can Sing and Doctor Robert.  I don't think they're fillers.

 ;D



I like AYBCS very much but I have to admit that some songs Im partial too.....are fillers  ;D

Dr Robert is dreadful though, nearly as bad as What Goes On.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 27, 2011, 03:41:44 AM
I like AYBCS very much but I have to admit that some songs Im partial too.....are fillers  ;D

I never thought of it that way.  But then who says they're fillers?   ;D



Dr Robert is dreadful though, nearly as bad as What Goes On.

We'll debate that when tkitna gets around to starting the Revolver thread.   OK, Herb?   ha2ha
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: In My Life on April 27, 2011, 08:19:56 AM
Check it out! : [url]http://beatlesbattle.com/[/url] ([url]http://beatlesbattle.com/[/url])


That was sort of fun. ;)Rubber Soul won out for me but only by 1 point. Doesn't surprise me really.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 27, 2011, 11:36:20 PM
I never thought of it that way.  But then who says they're fillers?   ;D




well you said 'i dont think theyre fillers' so some one mustve induced you to say that by calling them fillers  ha2ha
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on April 28, 2011, 02:46:44 AM
well you said 'i dont think theyre fillers' so some one mustve induced you to say that by calling them fillers  ha2ha


That was Hombre_de_ningun_lugar...

...and some of them are just fillers ("And Your Bird Can Sing", "Doctor Robert").

...but he's nowhere, man!

 ;D
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on April 28, 2011, 02:51:45 AM
one mans filler is another mans classic
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on April 28, 2011, 03:23:36 AM

That was Hombre_de_ningun_lugar...

...but he's nowhere, man!

 ;D

I know we're not still discussing Revolver, but I think that "And Your Bird Can Sing" and "Doctor Robert" are fillers at least in comparison to the other songs of the album. They are enjoyable tunes, yes, but not as interesting as the other tracks in my opinion. John thought less than me about "And Your Bird Can Sing": "another horror" said in 1972 and "another of my throwaways" in 1980.

Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on May 07, 2011, 05:03:58 AM
I had to drive into the city to pick them both up at Madison Square Garden.  They stopped at a bar after the concert and ran out of money for cab fare home.  All the way it was the two of them going "Rebel, rebel you've torn your dress.  Rebel, rebel your face is a mess."
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on May 07, 2011, 10:59:51 PM
I forgot to mention I was driving an MGB.  Imagine squeezing two very drunk 19 year old girls into that car and driving 20 miles.

I cringe anytime I hear Rebel Rebel today.  I used to really like that song.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: In My Life on May 07, 2011, 11:29:29 PM
Quote
I forgot to mention I was driving an MGB.

Sweet! Your sister was lucky. When I was 19 my brother took me to his friend's house. I thought it would be great until I woke up with my head hanging upside down off my mother's couch. He was telling me that would make me feel better and my mother was reading him the riot act. Apparently his friend's holiday punch was too much for me. That's not saying much for my drinking abilities because this friend used to serve this to the loyal customers in the back room of his grocery store at Christmas time and most of them were older ladies. I don't remember much about that night except that I think they must have been playing the Blue album because I think of this whenever I hear "Old Brown Shoe". LOL
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on May 08, 2011, 12:53:10 AM
You too?  Why do 19 year old girls get like that?

My sister was lucky that our parents were away.  She was staying there during her summer break.  They continued singing Bowie songs (mostly Rebel Rebel) until they fell asleep.  The last thing my sister said to me before she conked out was "Please don't tell Mommy and Daddy."
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Mr Mustard on May 08, 2011, 01:06:29 AM
They continued singing Bowie songs

I hope you joined in with "Fame" HG!  ;)

...then spent the rest of the journey explaining to them how lucky Bowie had been to work with a genius  ;D
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on May 08, 2011, 01:25:48 AM
I hope you joined in with "Fame" HG!  ;)

...then spent the rest of the journey explaining to them how lucky Bowie had been to work with a genius  ;D

I couldn't hear myself think over the din!  I spent the whole trip worrying that I'd be stopped by the police for having three people in a car for two and then having to explain what I was doing with these two p*ssed girls. 

I'm glad I never started them on other Bowie songs.  It leaves me some of his catalogue that I can listen to today.   ;)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: In My Life on May 08, 2011, 04:09:47 AM
Quote
You too?  Why do 19 year old girls get like that?

Because our frontal lobes weren't fully connected yet. I think 19 year old boys might have that problem too though!


Quote
The last thing my sister said to me before she conked out was "Please don't tell Mommy and Daddy."

I'll bet you didn't either!

Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on May 08, 2011, 05:28:25 AM
Women produce more alcohol dehydrogenase in their livers than men and so they can metabolize alcohol faster than men.  In short, women must drink more alcohol to get drunk than men.

How much punch did your brother give you?!   ;)


I'll bet you didn't either!

I never did.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Mr Mustard on May 10, 2011, 12:41:20 PM
Women produce more alcohol dehydrogenase in their livers than men and so they can metabolize alcohol faster than men.  In short, women must drink more alcohol to get drunk than men.


Not according to most so called experts HG. For example: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/1055861926.html (http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/1055861926.html)

It takes significantly more alcohol to get a man as drunk as a woman, hence the higher recommended safe daily limit of alcoholic units for men.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on May 10, 2011, 10:18:38 PM
There are several errors in that article.  He was correct when he stated that females have a larger proportion of body fat as compared to males.  In effect, that leaves males with a higher proportion of body water into which alcohol (EtOH) can redistribute and minimize blood alcohol content.   

The article mentions "dehydrogenase."  I know he's referring specifically to Alcohol Dehydrogenase (ADH).  The author says that it's a "gastric or stomach enzyme."  Indeed gastric ADH is elaborated by the stomach lining but he fails to mention hepatic ADH produced in the liver which is the most active of the classes of ADH.  He also didn't discuss first pass (stomach) and second pass (liver) EtOH metabolism.

More recent research than cited in that article suggests that young women express lesser amounts of gastric ADH than young men but the reverse is true in middle-aged individuals.  Those findings should have been mentioned in the article.

The author is correct in his statement about food content in the digestive system but he's assuming that women typically eat very little and skip meals.  He mentions that women absorb nearly 30% more EtOH into their bloodstream than a male of the same height and weight.  He might be referring to the young female here.  I can't comment on hormonal effects on ADH as my specialty is not endocrinology.  My understanding of endocrinology is limited to the expression of various endocrine disorders and their medical and surgical management.

I was being very generic with the remarks I made in that post and I erred in the specific type of ADH and not specifying age, Mr Mustard.  There are many factors which come into play with alcohol consumption and blood alcohol levels.  Age, size and weight are the most obvious.  Different populations and genes for classes of ADH are the less obvious.

 
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on May 10, 2011, 10:30:18 PM
Not according to most so called experts HG.

For a sociologist, he was pretty authoritative.  Remember, he's writing this for a public service type of website.  I appreciate his intent and I fully agree with his warnings.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on December 03, 2012, 11:05:57 PM
Happy Birthday Rubber Soul! 47 years since December 3, 1965. I remember when I listened to the album for the first time. I had listened to some other Beatles albums before, but this was the one that defined me as an absolute fan.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on December 04, 2012, 04:54:53 AM
Paul McCartney explains Rubber Soul album cover (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHnNYkNx0Ys#)



(http://beatlesalbumcovers.net/wp-content/uploads/the-beatles-rubber-soul-album-cover-parlophone.jpg)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Brynjar on January 24, 2013, 04:26:35 PM
In My Life - This has been my favorite Beatles song for the longest time.  John was in a very reflective mood when he wrote this one.  At the time of its composition he expressed feelings not usually evident in songwriters of his vintage.  The beauty of this song is that it has taken on different meanings as I've grown older.

Everything fits together in this song: vocals, harmonies, guitar, bass, drums, piano, everything.  The slight crack in John's voice at the end belongs there.  It's an emotional moment for the singer.  The closing chord and its slight buzz made for a beautiful ending to a beautiful song.  It took me a while to get that buzz just right on my Country Gentleman.

I think In My Life should be listened to in mono to be fully appreciated.

THE BEATLES Remasters! /// 11. In My Life - (RUBBER SOUL) - (MONO Remastered 2009) ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukbbPJirTaE#ws[/url])

   


 ;yes

100% agree with you.  :)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Moogmodule on January 03, 2014, 09:59:08 AM
Paul McCartney explains Rubber Soul album cover ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHnNYkNx0Ys#[/url])



([url]http://beatlesalbumcovers.net/wp-content/uploads/the-beatles-rubber-soul-album-cover-parlophone.jpg[/url])


I was enjoying reading all the thoughts on this great album and saw HG's picture of the album cover. I realised I haven't looked at it closely  for a long time. It's always been a cool one with that slight distortion. I only just now recall, as a young lad, that one thing that grabbed me was how much Ringo's hair profile reminded me of a coconut carved with a persons face that someone put in our old shed. (The coconut had a cigarette in its mouth in those less PC times). I'm sure lots of families in the late 60s had those coconut works of art.



Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 03, 2014, 11:32:54 PM
I was enjoying reading all the thoughts on this great album and saw HG's picture of the album cover. I realised I haven't looked at it closely  for a long time. It's always been a cool one with that slight distortion.


We almost saw it coming, Moog...


(http://i41.tinypic.com/2142zjk.jpg)

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2up3cde.jpg)

(http://i41.tinypic.com/104kp3p.jpg)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Moogmodule on January 05, 2014, 03:20:58 AM
We almost saw it coming, Moog...


([url]http://i41.tinypic.com/2142zjk.jpg[/url])

([url]http://i42.tinypic.com/2up3cde.jpg[/url])

([url]http://i41.tinypic.com/104kp3p.jpg[/url])


We did. Although I'd dub George Sir Coconut on the earlier album cover.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 05, 2014, 06:53:40 AM
We did. Although I'd dub George Sir Coconut on the earlier album cover.


Yes.  Paul called it a "turnip-top..."


The Making Of Beatles For Sale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Z6DZPu7YE#noexternalembed)



 :)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on May 28, 2014, 05:14:21 AM
For your listening pleasure, here is the first UK MONO pressing (-1 matrix) of Rubber Soul.  It's called "The Loud Cut" and has louder, more aggressive instrumentals...


Rubber Soul Loud Cut MONO vinyl side 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWnbZNRXbnQ#ws)


Rubber Soul Loud Cut MONO vinyl side 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uedJKgRE3JU#ws)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on December 03, 2015, 06:29:16 PM
It was 50 years ago today... Happy birthday to Rubber Soul, an album that was a big influence on my life!
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: In My Life on December 04, 2015, 05:12:52 AM
It was 50 years ago today... Happy birthday to Rubber Soul, an album that was a big influence on my life!

Happy birthday to my favorite album!
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on December 04, 2015, 05:23:59 AM
Fifty years passed so quickly!  I still have the LP my sister gave me.  She was ten years old when it was released.  The Beatles had matured well beyond her taste in music by that time.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: nimrod on December 04, 2015, 05:28:42 AM
It was 50 years ago today... Happy birthday to Rubber Soul, an album that was a big influence on my life!

I was the ripe old age of 12
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hello Goodbye on December 04, 2015, 11:05:35 PM
I was 15.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: In My Life on December 05, 2015, 03:18:58 AM
I was 29 months.
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: In My Life on December 05, 2015, 04:36:08 AM
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/KelMar1963/december_3_1965_rubbersoul_zps1010f339.jpg)
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Klang on December 05, 2015, 11:15:05 AM
Sweat shop.

 :P
Title: Re: Beatles under a microscope - Rubber Soul
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on December 05, 2015, 01:27:50 PM
I was -13. :)