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Other music forums => Various Artists, Lyrics, Discographies => Topic started by: Sondra on July 19, 2008, 05:07:54 AM

Title: The Who
Post by: Sondra on July 19, 2008, 05:07:54 AM
I'm watching VH1 Rock Honors right now. They're honoring The Who. Which is making me remember how freaking awesome a band they are. Sheesh.

I'm psyched cuz Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, Flaming Lips, etc are gonna play their stuff. Anyone catch this special? The songs sound SO fresh. Any of them could have been written just today. Well, actually, no one writes stuff that good anymore, so maybe not.

Jack Black: The Beatles never sang a song called BEA-TLES, BEA-TLES!

Heh.

Who fans?
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Oh Pineapple on July 19, 2008, 05:14:08 AM
"love reign over me....reign..over me..."
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Sondra on July 19, 2008, 05:34:35 AM
Incubus totally ruining two great Who songs. I Can See For Miles and I Can't Explain. And the drummer is WAY out of his league. I think all of the drummers are going to have a hard time of it though.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: JimmyMcCullochFan on July 20, 2008, 01:39:39 AM
The Who rock! Jimmy was discovered by Pete, you know.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Mr. Mustard on July 20, 2008, 03:27:48 AM
Quote from: 682
The Who rock! Jimmy was discovered by Pete, you know.

Which Jimmy are you referring to?  At first I thought you meant Page, but then I noticed you have a reference to Jimmy McCollough in your post.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Mr. Mustard on July 20, 2008, 03:30:51 AM
Okay, I'm assuming you mean McCullough.  Didn't notice what you name was.  Sorry!

And Sandra, the quote from Jack Black ("The Beatles never sang a song called "Bea-tles! Bea-tles!") -- is that a reference to "Who are You?"  And when did he say it?  In a movie, or was he on the VH1 show?
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Sondra on July 20, 2008, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: 1333
Okay, I'm assuming you mean McCullough.  Didn't notice what you name was.  Sorry!

And Sandra, the quote from Jack Black ("The Beatles never sang a song called "Bea-tles! Bea-tles!") -- is that a reference to "Who are You?"  And when did he say it?  In a movie, or was he on the VH1 show?

Yeah, he was referring to Who Are You?. It was from the intro when they had a bunch of famous people talk about why the Who are great. It was interesting seeing what Billy Idol looks like these days. Took me a minute to recognize him!
 
Roger's voice is still pretty good too, but man, Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam BLEW the audience away. That guy has an amazing voice.

I still think it's odd that they tour under the name The Who with just the two of them, but Roger actually explained it in a nice way.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: DaveRam on July 20, 2008, 09:05:36 AM
I love "Won't Get Fooled Again " , i share my Birthday with Roger (thumbsup)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Sondra on July 21, 2008, 04:03:26 AM
Does anyone really think they somehow started punk? I'm not sure about that one, but I get the arguments.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Sondra on July 21, 2008, 04:10:32 AM
I'm making this a sticky. Not because I started it, but because I think the Who deserves to be stickied. I mean if MUSE is a sticky! Well you get my point. I also merged the two Doors threads. If there are other Who threads, I'll gladly merge them. I just didn't see another.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Mairi on July 21, 2008, 04:23:40 AM
"The Who Sells Out"- really the first concept album, don't you think? Didn't this one predate Pepper?
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Sondra on July 21, 2008, 04:37:09 AM
It's a controversial topic. But I think Pepper came out slightly before The Who Sell Out. Not sure of the exact dates. Zappa fans always claim he did it first. And maybe so, who knows. Some info:

Perhaps the first examples from rock were the albums of The Ventures. Starting from 1961's Colorful Ventures (each song had a color in the title), the group was known for issuing records throughout the 1960s whose tracks revolved around central themes, including surf music, country, outer space, TV themes, and psychedelic music.[9]

In 1966, several rock releases were arguably concept albums in the sense that they presented a set of thematically-linked songs - and they also instigated other rock artists to consider using the album format in a similar fashion: The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds was a masterful musical portrayal of Brian Wilson's state of mind at the time (and a major inspiration to Paul McCartney). Although it has a unified theme in its emotional content, the writers (Brian Wilson and Tony Asher) have said continuously that it was not necessarily intended to be a narrative. However, later in 1966, Brian Wilson had begun work on the Smile album, which was intended as a narrative. The album was scrapped before completion, only to be revived in the 2000s. The Mothers of Invention's sardonic farce about rock music and America as a whole, Freak Out!; and Face to Face by The Kinks, the first collection of Ray Davies's idiosyncratic character studies of ordinary people. However, none of these attracted a wide commercial audience.

This all changed with the Beatles' celebrated album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band in June 1967. With the release of Sgt. Pepper, the notion of the concept album came to the forefront of the popular and critical mind, with the earlier prototypes and examples from classic pop and other genres sometimes forgotten. The phrase entered the popular lexicon, and a "concept album" - the term became imbued with the notion of artistic purpose - was inherently considered to be more creative or worthy of attention than a mere collection of new songs. This perception of course related to the intent of the artist rather than the specific content.

In fact, as pointed out by many critics since its original reception, Sgt. Pepper is a concept album only by some definitions of the term. There was, at some stage during the making of the album an attempt to relate the material to firstly the idea of aging, then as an obscure radio play about the life of an ex-army bandsman and his shortcomings. These concepts were lost in the final production. While debate exists over the extent to which Sgt. Pepper qualifies as a true concept album, there is no doubt that its reputation as such helped inspire other artists to produce concept albums of their own, and inspired the public to anticipate them. Lennon and McCartney distanced themselves from the "concept album" tag as applied to that album.[10]

The Who Sell Out followed with its concept of a pirate radio broadcast. Within the record, joke commercials recorded by the band and actual jingles from recently outlawed pirate radio station Wonderful Radio London were interspersed between the songs, ranging from pop songs to hard rock and psychedelic rock, culminating with a mini-opera titled "Rael"
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Mairi on July 21, 2008, 04:42:48 AM
In any case, you can't deny that they're both great albums. With Sgt. Pepper I find I can listen to the songs on their own. Not so much with "Sells Out". So.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Sondra on July 21, 2008, 04:48:12 AM
Plus they came out within, I think weeks of each other and John always said Pepper wasn't really a concept album. So once again the Who are robbed of credit!! Kind of unfair really.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Mairi on July 21, 2008, 04:52:01 AM
I think they are probably one of the most underrated bands of the Sixties. You hardly ever see them being mentioned in the classic rock magazines, yet they did so much. Most people know them as the guys who did the CSI theme song.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Sondra on July 21, 2008, 05:04:04 AM
It's funny you said that because on the Rock Honors show he and Roger were on stage talking about awards and Pete says something like I have about 100 pieces of plastic just from CSI. Wonder if he meant that was pretty much it. Very wrong if that's the case. I think they're too overshadowed by their contemporaries. Besides Townshend's incredible writing ability the musicianship within the band was also so innovative. Not to mention the auto-destruction, mini-pop opera, rock opera, and tons of other things that other bands just take for granted nowadays!
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Geoff on July 21, 2008, 05:25:54 AM
Quote from: 218
I think they are probably one of the most underrated bands of the Sixties. You hardly ever see them being mentioned in the classic rock magazines, yet they did so much. Most people know them as the guys who did the CSI theme song.

I've noticed this, too: back in the seventies and eighties, The Who were probably the best known British band of the sixties era after The Beatles and The Stones, and even in the nineties you could hear four or five Who songs being played to death on classic rock radio stations. I'm not sure what happened; maybe radio programmers got tired of "Won't Get Fooled Again" and "Baba O'Riley" and couldn't find replacements for them; or maybe the CSI connection, whatever it did for The Who's visibility, also made them unhip in the eyes of the rock press. I haven't got a half decent Who collection myself; I'll have to go rummage through a few record shops tomorrow.

By the way, The Who Sell Out was released on December 15, 1967, so it postdates Pepper by about six months.   :)

Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Mr. Mustard on July 22, 2008, 11:29:35 PM
To touch on a few points made previously.....

The Who's early style was definitely a fore-runner of punk (and metal, too), with the destruction, rebellion and "Hope I die before I get old" nihilistic mentality.

I liken the Who's place in rock history in comparison to their peers who were perhaps more famous to the 2 biggest American rental car companies -- Hertz and Avis.  (Bear with me for a moment.)  Hertz was always #1, but Avis used that to their advantage in their advertising campaigns, proudly trumpeting that "We try harder" because they were #2.  In rock, the Who is Avis.  Hertz is the Rolling Stones, or Led Zeppelin. (I'm leaving the Beatles out of this analogy.)  The Who was never going to be 'the biggest band in the world' as long as these groups were in existence, so therefore the Who 'tried harder.'  Townshend practically put himself in the nuthouse with his obsessiveness, particularly when he wrote Lifehouse, that confusing, aborted project that morphed into the Who's Next album.  The Stones and Zeppelin didn't seem to stress so much about their own work, whereas Townshend was ultra-serious about the meaning of the Who's music, how relevant was it, what was the state of rock music, etc.

Speaking of Who's Next, while it's generally considered to be the Who's masterpiece among LPs (and I agree), I tend to see it as being uneven -- and I think this is due to the fact that most of it came from a broken project.  Fairly or not, I always end up comparing this album to what the Stones and Zeppelin were doing circa 71/72 (LZ IV, Sticky Fingers, Exile on Main Street), and the Who falls just short.  The two anthems that bookend the album, Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again, are (deservedly) still staples of rock radio. And while I admire the musical innovation that Townshend was introducing with the synthesizers, and acknowledge that they are truly great rock songs, they don't 'hit' me the way that Four Sticks or Misty Mountain Hop (from Led Zep IV) do, or any number of the less anthemic songs from Exile.  Behind Blue Eyes is my favorite song on the album, and I like Getting in Tune and Love Ain't For Keeping.  Bargain is pretty good, and I used to hate My Wife until I understood the lyrics and appreciated the song's humor.  I like Going Mobile, too.  But Song is Over is too long, too slow, too maudlin.  Whenever I hear it, I want the song to be over.

Anybody have any comments on The Kids are Alright (the documentary movie, not the song)?  This movie made me a Who fan instantly.

Where do you all rank Townshend among guitarists?  Top 10, top 50, overrated?  
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Mairi on July 22, 2008, 11:41:22 PM
Interesting points you have there Mr. Mustard. I certainly agree that the Who really started up that whole "wanton destruction" attitude that came with the punk movement of later. Interesting how they kind of rebelled against the hippie flower image that was so popular in those days.

Speaking of Who's Next, does anyone get really wistful/melancholy when they listen to Baba O'Riley? The lyrics aren't really sad, there's just something about the music and Daltrey's delivery.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Sondra on July 23, 2008, 07:58:23 PM
Quote from: 1333
Anybody have any comments on The Kids are Alright (the documentary movie, not the song)?  This movie made me a Who fan instantly.

Where do you all rank Townshend among guitarists?  Top 10, top 50, overrated?  

TKAA is the definitive rock bio. Made for fans by a mega fan. It's so raw and honest. Don't see so much of that anymore. I can't even count how many times I've watched it. Mainly for the Moon performances. The guy was beyond fascinating and insanely talented and original. :X But I also love witnessing the sense of humor they all seem to have throughout. Interesting dynamic between the four of them.

I also think the time it was done was the perfect time. They were all there to comment and have input. The Who basically died with Keith Moon, so anything after the fact doesn't really add to what made them so iconic.
But really, the musical performances drove the film. Watching them evolve, watching the milestones. Perfect. I loved the Russell Harty interview they cut throughout the film too. It provided a sort of continuity. Loved how nervous Harty got when he thought Moon was about to out him!

I'd like to see the new bio Amazing Journey. I don't know if it'll add much of anything new, but I definitely want to see it! Anyone see that one yet?

As for Pete's guitar playing. I really don't know where to rank him, but I do think he's somewhat underrated. I mean, those power chords alone...there was some amazing musicianship going on in that band! Maybe Pete got overshadowed a bit.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Mr. Mustard on July 23, 2008, 10:52:45 PM
I think Pete's playing style with the Who was as a "rhythm-lead" guitarist, as opposed to a virtuoso style of playing that characterized Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen and others.  He seemed to be setting up Entwistle and Moon to take lead roles musically (like the bass solos in My Generation, for instance).
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Geoff on July 24, 2008, 04:39:02 AM
Quote from: 1333
I think Pete's playing style with the Who was as a "rhythm-lead" guitarist, as opposed to a virtuoso style of playing that characterized Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen and others.  He seemed to be setting up Entwistle and Moon to take lead roles musically (like the bass solos in My Generation, for instance).

He was an ensemble player, I think: he certainly had style and flash, but his playing was in service of the song and didn't merely draw attention to himself or his "virtuosity."  :)

Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BlueMeanie on July 24, 2008, 12:25:14 PM
He is definitely a rhythm guitarist that plays a bit of lead when absolutely necessary. Though I'm not a huge Who fan I think he's the greatest rhythm player I've ever heard.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: pc31 on December 16, 2008, 02:37:49 PM
_bk04H-NdcY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bk04H-NdcY)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: alexis on December 16, 2008, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: 483
He is definitely a rhythm guitarist that plays a bit of lead when absolutely necessary. Though I'm not a huge Who fan I think he's the greatest rhythm player I've ever heard.

I agree, and then many times I say Jimmy Page was the greatest rhythm player ever. I think that skill of his is overlooked, given his solo virtuosity, but everytime I listen to an early LZ album I realize that the groove is so often set by 2 or 3 rhythm guitars subtly overdubbed on each other. His skill as a producer (I believe he was already well-recognized as such before their first album) certainly added to the awesomeness of the first LZ albums IMO.

John was pretty good too!
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: fendertele on December 16, 2008, 05:33:20 PM
I dont see him as a great guitarist at all, he has loads of energy and looks the part but his playing is very limited and although he is a good rhythm player which is his strongest point there are many other guys out there doing the same thing better then and now.

All theese guys are basically playing the part of lead and rhythmat the same time like Pete but are Far better in every aspect of playing
Dave Davies - has him beat on Riffs, Soloing and maybe speed
Graham Coxon - similiar in that he is playing rhythm/Lead being the only guitarist in Blur but is much better imo.
Paul Weller - Not only is he singing lead and playing at same time but he is fantastic and imo also better than pete.
Johnny Marr - Same as coxon.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: alexis on December 16, 2008, 05:51:43 PM
Thanks for the cool guitarist perspective, Fendertele! I'll have to listen to the Kinks some more, it's been a while. Don't know the other guys though, I'll have to learn about them too!
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: on December 21, 2008, 12:35:32 PM
all I can say is... Long Live The Who.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: tkitna on December 21, 2008, 05:42:38 PM
I have to disagree that The Who was underrated. They get plenty of recognition in my opinion. If somebody made a list of the 5 greatest bands of all time, they would be on that list every single time.

'Quadrophenia' is on my top ten (maybe 5) albums of all time.

'Slip Kid', 'My Wife', 'Pictures Of Lily', and 'The Real Me' are probably my favorite tunes.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: pc31 on December 24, 2008, 02:51:17 AM
only one song from the ox????what about boris the spider???
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: tkitna on December 25, 2008, 09:50:12 PM
Eh, 'Boris' is ok, but it was never a favorite. The 'creepy crawly' part kind of turns me off.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Sondra on January 02, 2009, 08:00:45 AM
Did anyone see them at the Kennedy Center Honors this week? Very cool. Loved it when the NYC fire fighters and police officers surprised them by gathering together to become a chorus behind Rob Thomas doing Baba O' Riley. Very touching moment. Pete and Roger looked genuinely touched. Especially Pete. I thought he was gonna break down and cry! Before that though, they looked pretty disgusted at the CRAPPY job Rob Thomas was doing with their song. Joss Stone was pretty crappy too, but they looked like they liked here. She's too damn affected for me. Lay off the schtick already and put on some shoes and quit yelling like you think you have soul. Yuck.
Here it is:
oJZiZqy61zs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJZiZqy61zs)

Barbara Streisand was honored too. Loved Beyonce singing The Way We Were. Barbara looked impressed too! But Barbara still does it better.
c9waY79yPqw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9waY79yPqw)


Interesting that they all had to sit there next to George W. Awkward! Here's W talking about Roger and Pete. IT'S SO WEIRD! He's such a dork.
QfajpTWQmyQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfajpTWQmyQ)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: aspinall_lover on January 02, 2009, 03:08:16 PM
^^^^^^^I watched that.  Wouldn't have missed it for the world.  Pete's looking old, but Roger still looks pretty good.  And I think "Dubya" Bush didn't have a clue......
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Mr. Mustard on January 09, 2009, 08:23:38 AM
Hello again everybody!  

Say what you will about W -- and I voted against him twice -- but I wouldn't be shocked if he was a Who fan (right age, probably listened to some Who while partying in college).  

But more importantly -- is Keith Moon the greatest drummer in rock?  Could he have played in any other band besides the Who?  

I think he's by far the most visually spectacular drummer ever, but his style was so over the top that I'm not sure he would have lasted with the Beatles, or the Stones, or Zeppelin, or etc....

Maybe he was in the right place at the right time?
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Deb on January 19, 2009, 04:58:06 PM
Keith Moon was one of kind!  I really like The Who's performance at the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus.  Mick Jagger felt that The Who blew the Stones off the stage and didn't want to release RRC after its 1968 filming....... and it didn't see the light of day until the mid 1990s.

The Who doing "A Quick One" at the RRC:

fOG12sE-krw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOG12sE-krw)

Title: Re: The Who
Post by: python on January 19, 2009, 07:12:38 PM
I agree Deb.The Who were fantastic.A tremedous version of A Quick One.Keith was on fire.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Deb on January 20, 2009, 01:50:18 AM
Quote from: 1610
I agree Deb.The Who were fantastic.A tremedous version of A Quick One.Keith was on fire.

The Dirty Mac Band was great also!   I hate to say it but I think Yoko should have stayed in the bag for their second song, too.

Title: Re: The Who
Post by: The Swine on March 10, 2009, 03:38:07 PM
the who sell out reissued

(http://media.thewho.com/non_secure/images/news/TheWhoSellOut_2CD_new.jpg)

info here (http://www.thewho.com/index.php?module=news&news_item_id=270)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: aspinall_lover on March 10, 2009, 11:54:16 PM
Quote from: 1848
Keith Moon was one of kind!  I really like The Who's performance at the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus.  Mick Jagger felt that The Who blew the Stones off the stage and didn't want to release RRC after its 1968 filming....... and it didn't see the light of day until the mid 1990s.

The Who doing "A Quick One" at the RRC:

fOG12sE-krw ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOG12sE-krw[/url])


^^^^^Got that one on DVD........deluxe edition.  The Who were the bomb on that show.  I also thought Jethro Tull were pretty darn good too.............poor Brian was sooooooo out of it............

Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 12, 2009, 10:31:21 AM
Quote from: 1255
^^^^^Got that one on DVD........deluxe edition.  The Who were the bomb on that show.  I also thought Jethro Tull were pretty darn good too.............poor Brian was sooooooo out of it............


I thought The Dirty Mac were pretty good too. In fact everyone was better than The Stones!!
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Pilzkopf on March 13, 2009, 01:41:29 PM
So George W thinks The Who's sound "still resignates through the music industry". I say, how true! With their groundhogbreaking powder chords in Pinhead Wizard, they set the trenchmark for past generations still to come.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: lennon-legend on June 17, 2009, 02:42:58 AM
BUMP!
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BlueMeanie on June 17, 2009, 08:55:17 AM
Quote from: 411
BUMP!

Why? If you've nothing to say why bump the thread?
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: lennon-legend on June 17, 2009, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: 483

Why? If you've nothing to say why bump the thread?


Just wanted to keep the thread on top :) They are one of the greatest band ever, and it doesn't mean that because i didn't anything to say at that moment that  someone who maybe didn't know there was such a thread can't add anything to it you know :)
cheers people

7dlN55SoF4Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dlN55SoF4Q)

Title: Re: The Who
Post by: aspinall_lover on June 19, 2009, 09:41:02 PM
Very, very nice!!!!  Puts me in a "Who-mood" for tonight...........
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: lennon-legend on June 20, 2009, 11:34:40 PM
aNP2jxAdpk8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNP2jxAdpk8)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on June 24, 2009, 04:50:53 PM
What do you think about the four surviving members of the Beatles and the Who joining and making a band?

The lineup would be:

Roger Daltrey - vocals
Pete Townshend - guitar
Paul McCartney - bass
Ringo Starr - drums

Can you imagine Ringo playing drums in "My Generation"?
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BlueMeanie on June 24, 2009, 04:54:40 PM
Quote from: 1997

Can you imagine Ringo playing drums in "My Generation"?

Yes, unfortunately.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: alexis on June 24, 2009, 05:12:54 PM
Quote from: 1997
What do you think about the four surviving members of the Beatles and the Who joining and making a band?

The lineup would be:

Roger Daltrey - vocals
Pete Townshend - guitar
Paul McCartney - bass
Ringo Starr - drums

Can you imagine Ringo playing drums in "My Generation"?

Wow, hombre, this is a completely AWESOME idea!

Only modifications I might make:

a) Have Paul do some vocals too, he's got an OK voice  :-/
b) Rhythm guitarist? I know Pete didn't need one in The Who, so maybe it's silly to think of adding a 5th person to the group for that reason. I guess it boils down to - can Paul's songs be properly played with only 1 guitar and a bass?

Cheers for major league thinking outside the box, hombre!

Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on June 24, 2009, 05:51:40 PM
Of course Paul would sing too, and Pete would do backing vocals; and both of them being the songwriters of new material. A 5th Whotle? Maybe a hidden one to play keyboards or another guitar in live acts.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: alexis on June 24, 2009, 06:02:21 PM
Quote from: 1997
Of course Paul would sing too, and Pete would do backing vocals; and both of them being the songwriters of new material. A 5th Whotle? Maybe a hidden one to play keyboards or another guitar in live acts.

Yes, I was thinking for live acts. Also, I think music writing and arranging chemistry is better with 3 in the room than 2, even if the heavy lifting is just done by two. Just my two cents!

Title: Re: The Who
Post by: sgt. peppie on January 12, 2010, 01:02:27 AM
I'm sorry, I really want to bring this topic back to life.
I can't stop listening to their music!!
Keith's drumming makes my jaw drop every time!
I got 'The Who Sell Out', and I listened to the entire album twice in a row, while I was drawing.
I suck at drawing them right now, because I just started, but I feel like I get more ideas of what to draw when I listen to them! The same effect goes with The Beatles, RHCP, sometimes Nirvana, etc.
Did I mention Keith's drumming is completely AWESOME??  ;D
And Oh my God, Pete is something else! He created something completly remarkable with that guitar.
And John's bass playing is so fast and organized, sometimes it doesn't even look like he's trying!
Roger's voice is so powerful, it's still strong after so many years!
I really want to know more about them, I feel like such a newbie.  ;D
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: emmi_luvs_beatles on January 12, 2010, 01:14:18 AM
Yaaaay!!!!! You HAVE to get Tommy, it's my favorite album of theirs next to Who's next. They got me into Classic rock and they're just awesome. If you want to know more about them you should watch "Amazing Journey: The Story of The Who" It's got everything you want to know about them in there. Just pure epicness.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: sgt. peppie on January 12, 2010, 02:01:46 AM
My step dad has 'Tommy'! I need to steal it now! Heck, I need to get most of their albums.  ;D
Is the documentary something shown on TV or should I buy it somewhere?
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: emmi_luvs_beatles on January 12, 2010, 02:04:10 AM
^^ Yes! Steal it soon!

And it's on Vh1/Vh1Classic sometimes, but I would just buy it if you wanted it, I borrowed it from my Aunt :) She got Roger's autograph at a concert once, I was SOOOO jealous!!!! She's obsessed with The Who and Bob Dylan lol
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: alexis on January 12, 2010, 04:35:31 AM
"Live at Leeds" is a really great album by The Who. Gotta play it LOUD!!!
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Almighty Doer of Stuff on January 12, 2010, 06:55:59 PM
Aye, and definitely get the Deluxe Edition! It's got the whole concert, including Tommy almost in its entirety on disc 2!

The Who were also excellent in the Rolling Stones Rock & Roll Circus.

Someone said Jethro Tull was pretty good there (I forget who) but in fact they weren't actually playing. They were lip synching to the studio album version of the song, unfortunately. A real shame, since generally they're such a great band.

As for The Dirty Mac, I liked both songs entirely, including Yoko's singing. Consider it instrumental music rather than a song. Some people have said (and I agree) that if it were, say, Eric Clapton's guitar making those sounds rather than Yoko's voice, it would have been thought amazing, but the fact is it is Yoko's voice and unfortunately people are too busy Yoko-bashing to enjoy the musicality of it.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Penny Lane on April 13, 2010, 07:02:19 AM
And it's on Vh1/Vh1Classic sometimes, but I would just buy it if you wanted it, I borrowed it from my Aunt :) She got Roger's autograph at a concert once, I was SOOOO jealous!!!!

 :o :o :o
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: sgt. peppie on April 18, 2010, 11:15:24 PM
I discovered The Who from Paul. In that one interview where he said he wrote "Helter Skelter" in attempt to make a song that's raunchier and more aggressive than Pete Townshend's song, "I can see for miles" (i'm not sure if he really said which song). I wanted to listen to Pete's song to compare the two. So I watched this:
The Who - I Can See For Miles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Uyj4NIyDU#lq-lq2-hq)
And I was like:   :o
Helter Skelter is obviously harder and scarier, but I love both songs.  ;D
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: emmi_luvs_beatles on April 30, 2010, 07:12:44 PM
^^Peppie, you Wholigan! ;)

:o :o :o


Mhhmm... She has it framed.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: littlesurfergirl on September 09, 2010, 02:55:39 AM
Bucket T (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIlBLCwD_Tw#)

^^I've been obssessed with this song recently  ;D
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 14, 2010, 03:25:56 AM
^

British surf music!


It reminds me of...

Beach Boys-(my 409) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs2lL625Yy8#)


and...

T RA SHMEN - Surfi n Bird (1963) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fruHQhNe-UM#noexternalembed)


 ;)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 14, 2010, 03:28:42 AM
The Trashmen...

The Trashmen - King Of The Surf - 1963 45rpm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTxFfpRYg3M#)

...good early surf music!
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on October 28, 2011, 08:10:01 PM
My list of favourite albums by the Who:

1. Who's Next
2. Tommy
3. The Who Sell Out
4. Quadrophenia
5. Who Are You
6. My Generation
7. A Quick One
8. The Who By Numbers
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BeatlesForever on October 28, 2011, 09:33:58 PM
^

British surf music!


It reminds me of...

Beach Boys-(my 409) ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs2lL625Yy8#[/url])


and...

T RA SHMEN - Surfi n Bird (1963) ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fruHQhNe-UM#noexternalembed[/url])


 ;)


Hi Hello Goodbye! How are you? Did you know that THE BEACH BOYS was one of Keith Moon's most favorite bands? 
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BeatlesForever on October 28, 2011, 10:00:35 PM
Here's one from THE WHO! Enjoy!

The Who - Behind Blue Eyes 1975 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkLI121OBms#)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 21, 2011, 01:22:25 AM
Here's one from THE WHO!

The Who - A Quick One While He's Away (Rock and Roll Circus) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ku7QNRudg#)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: In My Life on November 22, 2011, 04:25:20 AM
Bucket T

^^I've been obssessed with this song recently  ;D

I can see how this might become an obsession. I can feel it lodging itself in my brain after one listen!
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 22, 2011, 04:28:37 AM
I can see how this might become an obsession. I can feel it lodging itself in my brain after one listen!


Speaking of THE WHO, here's another great song!

The Who / I Can't Explain - Live At The Isle Of Wight (1970) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j157erDp3oM#)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BeatlesForever on November 30, 2011, 04:15:12 AM
Here's one from THE WHO!

The Who 5:15 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcuo4VeNCkQ#)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BeatlesForever on December 02, 2011, 03:59:34 AM
Here's another from THE WHO!

Pictures Of Lily - The Who (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BmkBroiw1s#)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BeatlesForever on December 23, 2011, 04:13:19 AM
Here's one from THE WHO!

The Who - Christmas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BWiYJ3yykw#)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BeatlesForever on December 27, 2011, 11:02:00 PM
Here's another from THE WHO!

The Who - Eminence front (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnHLgxKUsEA#)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: BeatlesForever on January 04, 2012, 03:35:13 AM
Here's another from THE WHO!

The Who- Let's See Action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay_Ah1tBwuQ#)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on March 02, 2012, 07:13:00 PM

Happy birthday, Roger, a day late!   :D
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hello Goodbye on March 08, 2012, 04:38:08 AM
(http://www.nemsworld.com/beatles/64whit/cake03.jpg)

I'm glad it's your birthday...
Happy Birthday to you!


Happy Birthday Roger (six days late)!



the who-squeeze box (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXoxH8HI7z8#)


Pa Pa Ooooom!
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: peterbell1 on March 08, 2012, 07:09:32 PM
Here's one from THE WHO!

The Who - A Quick One While He's Away (Rock and Roll Circus) ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ku7QNRudg#[/url])


My favourite video of The Who - I absolutely love this!
I can see why The Stones decided not to release Rock n Roll Circus when the "support" bands totally blew them away.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on March 13, 2012, 08:57:30 PM
My favourite video of The Who - I absolutely love this!

Mine too! I like it even better than the studio version, although both are great IMO.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on May 19, 2012, 03:48:21 PM

Happy Birthday PETE! I never would have made it through adolescence without ya!   :D


Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on August 09, 2012, 02:02:07 AM
 
Played "Cut My Hair" for my two teens and my 10-year-old today, hoping they would be moved by the angst and the emotion in the vocals, but no go  :-[
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Ovi on March 07, 2013, 07:51:16 PM
My list of favourite albums by the Who:

1. Who's Next
2. Tommy
3. The Who Sell Out
4. Quadrophenia
5. Who Are You
6. My Generation
7. A Quick One
8. The Who By Numbers

Here's mine (quite a bit different) :

1. Quadrophenia
2. The Who By Numbers
3. Tommy
4. Who's Next
5. Who Sell Out
6. Who Are You
7. A Quick One
8. My Generation

P.S. I realize that was sort of an old post, but I couldn't think of a better way to bring back to life the topic about one of Rock's classic bands.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on March 08, 2013, 02:03:37 AM
Here's mine (quite a bit different) :

1. Quadrophenia
2. The Who By Numbers
3. Tommy
4. Who's Next
5. Who Sell Out
6. Who Are You
7. A Quick One
8. My Generation

P.S. I realize that was sort of an old post, but I couldn't think of a better way to bring back to life the topic about one of Rock's classic bands.

It's always great to talk about the Who.

With regard to your list, I'm surprised to see The Who By Numbers on the #2 spot, as it's usually seen as a relatively poor step by the band. But I must say that I really enjoy it every time I listen to it, even though it's my least favorite studio album of those recorded with Keith Moon.

Then, Quadrophenia is a nice choice for the #1 position. In my case, it fights with The Who Sell Out for being #3, after Who's Next and Tommy, but all these 4 albums are wonderful pieces of work, quite different from each other.

And seeing My Generation (at least the US version) at #8 is a bit hard to dig. True, it was a very primitive record, but that's the same reason that makes it special in my opinion. Beyond the title track (a revolutionary classic), I find several enjoyable tunes like "The Kids Are Alright", "Instant Party (Circles)", "The Good's Gone", "It's Not True", "A Legal Matter"... The two quite boring covers surely bring the rating down, but most of the rest even have an historic feeling.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Ovi on March 08, 2013, 08:30:42 AM
It's always great to talk about the Who.

With regard to your list, I'm surprised to see The Who By Numbers on the #2 spot, as it's usually seen as a relatively poor step by the band. But I must say that I really enjoy it every time I listen to it, even though it's my least favorite studio album of those recorded with Keith Moon.

I was a bit skeptical at first, having read the not-so-glowing-reviews and thinking that there is no way the album was going to stand a chance to the greatness of 'Quadrophenia', but the album has quickly grown on me after a few listens. It's Pete's most personal record and maybe that's why I like it so much. It's modest and unambitious and that's welcomed with me as well. I think it was the best decision at the moment; something even more ambitious than Quadrophenia would've probably failed. None of the songs are Who classics but I love most of them, with 'Imagine a Man', 'They're All In Love', 'Blue, Red and Grey' and 'How Many Friends'* as my absolute highlights. If I were to be objective, then maybe 'Tommy' and 'Who's Next' are better, from a song-writing point of view (never been a fan of 'Success Story' and 'In a Hand or a Face', to be honest) but 'By Numbers' is just the record that I play more often. It resonates with me more, I guess (not sure if resonates is the right word here though, I'm not an alcoholic rock star ha2ha, but you get my point).

*I've read somewhere that this was Moon's favourite song on the album and that he even cried when Pete played it to him.

And seeing My Generation (at least the US version) at #8 is a bit hard to dig. True, it was a very primitive record, but that's the same reason that makes it special in my opinion. Beyond the title track (a revolutionary classic), I find several enjoyable tunes like "The Kids Are Alright", "Instant Party (Circles)", "The Good's Gone", "It's Not True", "A Legal Matter"... The two quite boring covers surely bring the rating down, but most of the rest even have an historic feeling.

I love both 'A Quick One' and 'My Generation', but when it comes down to choosing one of them, I'd definitely go with the former. I think you were lenient in calling the James Brown covers boring - to me they're kind of horrible. Plus, I'm a big of fan of the mini-suite.

Also, I listened to 'Face Dances' last night for the first time and was hugely disappointed. What do you think of it?
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on March 08, 2013, 02:36:46 PM
I was a bit skeptical at first, having read the not-so-glowing-reviews and thinking that there is no way the album was going to stand a chance to the greatness of 'Quadrophenia', but the album has quickly grown on me after a few listens. It's Pete's most personal record and maybe that's why I like it so much. It's modest and unambitious and that's welcomed with me as well. I think it was the best decision at the moment; something even more ambitious than Quadrophenia would've probably failed. None of the songs are Who classics but I love most of them, with 'Imagine a Man', 'They're All In Love', 'Blue, Red and Grey' and 'How Many Friends'* as my absolute highlights. If I were to be objective, then maybe 'Tommy' and 'Who's Next' are better, from a song-writing point of view (never been a fan of 'Success Story' and 'In a Hand or a Face', to be honest) but 'By Numbers' is just the record that I play more often. It resonates with me more, I guess (not sure if resonates is the right word here though, I'm not an alcoholic rock star ha2ha, but you get my point).

*I've read somewhere that this was Moon's favourite song on the album and that he even cried when Pete played it to him.

I think that "Slip Kid" and "Squeeze Box" could have certain status of classics, actually. "Imagine A Man" is a beautiful ballad, and I've always liked "How Many Friends" a lot. Your're right when you say that it's Pete's most personal record, in fact he sang lead vocal en several songs. And Quadrophenia was by far the most ambitious proyect of the band (at least a finished proyect), so it's not surprising that Pete had taken a break here. Maybe you feel the same way about The Who By Numbers as I feel about Who Are You, a misunderstood album in my opinion.

I love both 'A Quick One' and 'My Generation', but when it comes down to choosing one of them, I'd definitely go with the former. I think you were lenient in calling the James Brown covers boring - to me they're kind of horrible. Plus, I'm a big of fan of the mini-suite.

I like both of those albums too, but My Generation has an intriguing sound that really catchs me. I think the best songs in A Quick One were written by John, but Keith and Roger wasted their opportunity as songwriters. The mini-rock opera is an historic piece, but probably the live versions are better.

Also, I listened to 'Face Dances' last night for the first time and was hugely disappointed. What do you think of it?

I think it's a decent album, beyond its slight 80's pop tinge I dislike so much. It would be at #9 in my studio albums list anyway (It's Hard, the next album, is really awful). My favorite songs are "You Better You Bet" and "You".
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Ovi on March 08, 2013, 06:49:04 PM
And Quadrophenia was by far the most ambitious proyect of the band (at least a finished proyect), so it's not surprising that Pete had taken a break here.

Yeah, rumour has it that he wanted to dissolve the band after 'Quadrophenia'.

I think it's a decent album, beyond its slight 80's pop tinge I dislike so much. It would be at #9 in my studio albums list anyway (It's Hard, the next album, is really awful). My favorite songs are "You Better You Bet" and "You".

'You Better You Bet' was about the only song that caught my attention while listening to the record. On the other hand, John's pseudo-heavy metal delivery on 'The Quiet One' and those stupid repeated backing vocals on 'Did You Steal My Money' made me wonder if any of the original members gave a damn about the band at the time.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on May 19, 2014, 10:15:32 PM


Happy Birthday, Pete! 
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on October 23, 2014, 08:48:32 PM

Just found this online—the Top 10 Underrated Pete Townshend Songs—and thought I'd share it here. I definitely agree with Numbers 1 and 2, but "Stardom in Acton" at No. 4? I must be missing something.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/pete-townshend-underrated-songs/ (http://ultimateclassicrock.com/pete-townshend-underrated-songs/)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: oldbrownshoe on October 23, 2014, 09:57:53 PM
The clue's in the web-site title - 'Ultimate Classic Rock'.
Anything calling itself that has to be c***!
I doubt anyone conducting this list has heard a Who record before 'Tommy'.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on October 24, 2014, 03:37:50 AM
The Who didn't record many covers (they didn't need to), but I really love this one:

The Who - Heat Wave 1967 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXq48rTTsAQ#)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on October 24, 2014, 01:01:03 PM
The Who didn't record many covers (they didn't need to), but I really love this one:
 Heat Wave 1967

I always liked their cover of that, too.

I doubt anyone conducting this list has heard a Who record before 'Tommy'.

Well, these types of lists are always so subjective. I could probably rattle off 10 more off the top of my head that I personally think are underrated.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Ovi on October 24, 2014, 01:18:35 PM
The clue's in the web-site title - 'Ultimate Classic Rock'.
Anything calling itself that has to be c***!
I doubt anyone conducting this list has heard a Who record before 'Tommy'.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the list. Both pre and post-Tommy Who have been talked about a whole lot, it's nice to see that solo Pete gets a bit of attention for a change. Some of us do get bored and do listen/read about other things than the well-established classics, you know.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: oldbrownshoe on October 25, 2014, 09:16:04 AM
Maybe I'm just not meant for Pete Townshend concept albums from the dire 1980s.

Personally, I can't stand The Who after (and, if I'm honest, largely during) 'Tommy'. The mid-60s group is another thing entirely.

It's good that the 'Tommy'/post-'Tommy' stuff comes under the umbrella title of 'Ultimate Classic Rock'.....it's put under that title so the likes of me can avoid it like the plague. Sort of a public service announcement!

What The Who turned into is a shining example of why The Beatles' split was a very, very good thing.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Ovi on October 25, 2014, 09:44:55 AM
Maybe I'm just not meant for Pete Townshend concept albums from the dire 1980s.

Have you heard them?

It's good that the 'Tommy'/post-'Tommy' stuff comes under the umbrella title of 'Ultimate Classic Rock'.....it's put under that title so the likes of me can avoid it like the plague. Sort of a public service announcement!

60's classics are pretty much considered 'classic rock' as well. Things like My Generation, I Can't Get No Satisfaction, You Really Got Me etc. I hate the term too, but it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the songs themselves.

What The Who turned into is a shining example of why The Beatles' split was a very, very good thing.

I think with 'Live at Leeds' the band went on a stage to places The Beatles never would dream of. And 'Who By Numbers' is an unusually sincere and subdued album for a big rock 'n' roll band. There's far, far less bombast there then in things like 'Who Sell Out' or the 'A Quick One While He's Away' mini-opera.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: oldbrownshoe on October 26, 2014, 09:34:30 AM
Heard 'White City' in the dire 1980s - awful contemporary production; impenetrable, tedious  'concept'.
They even did a South Bank Special on it with an earnest (is there any other kind?) Townshend explaining it. Yikes!

I'm afraid I can't stand 'Live at Leeds', to me it's just noise for the sake of noise, and the beginnings of 'rock' being played three miles away from the audience. NOT a positive advance. 

This morning on BBC Five Live a guy (it categorically would NOT be a woman!!!!!) from 'Classic Rock' magazine was on talking about Jack Bruce, I'd be amazed if he'd got the phone call if Paul had died.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: oldbrownshoe on January 18, 2015, 08:25:18 AM
Gear yourself up for yet another Who reissue campaign.
Why? Cos all the Who CDs in London appear to be currently priced at £3.

So if you got the frankly awful Shel Talmy 'deluxe' reissue of 'My Generation' a few years ago, be prepared for a 'super-super-super deluxe' version of it and its bed-fellows.

Personally, I'd make do with a British As and Bs compilation - 1964-68.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on January 18, 2015, 04:05:15 PM
So if you got the frankly awful Shel Talmy 'deluxe' reissue of 'My Generation' a few years ago, be prepared for a 'super-super-super deluxe' version of it and its bed-fellows.


I've been meaning to Google that "deluxe" reissue. Just the thought of such a release makes me cringe ahead of time. I have to run now, but I'm definitely going to look that one up online later.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on January 18, 2015, 11:16:45 PM
I've been meaning to Google that "deluxe" reissue. Just the thought of such a release makes me cringe ahead of time. I have to run now, but I'm definitely going to look that one up online later.

Found it, and found the vinyl LP it reminded me of. That "deluxe" reissue looks like a mash-up of the original My Generation LP and Who's Missing.

I love The Who, but they've released 'way too many best-of LPs.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: oldbrownshoe on January 19, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Now I'm in no danger (that's 'absolutely' no danger) of buying a Queen record, but their 'Deep Cuts' series seems an imaginative, and surprisingly cheap, way of introducing people to their catalogue while, at the same time, giving something a bit different to their existing fans.

Every Who compilation seems to put all the same songs in all the same order.
'I Can't Explain', 'Anyway Anyhow Anywhere', 'My Generation', 'The Kids Are Alright', 'Substitute', I'm A Boy', 'Happy Jack', 'Boris The Spider', 'Pictures of Lily'.....have I missed one yet?!

'The Who As and Bs' compilation please, it's a no-brainer.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on January 20, 2015, 02:15:00 AM
Every Who compilation seems to put all the same songs in all the same order.
'I Can't Explain', 'Anyway Anyhow Anywhere', 'My Generation', 'The Kids Are Alright', 'Substitute', I'm A Boy', 'Happy Jack', 'Boris The Spider', 'Pictures of Lily'.....have I missed one yet?!


"I Can See For Miles"?   ;D

'The Who As and Bs' compilation please, it's a no-brainer.

I agree with you there, old brown shoe.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on January 20, 2015, 04:48:34 PM
Every Who compilation seems to put all the same songs in all the same order.
'I Can't Explain', 'Anyway Anyhow Anywhere', 'My Generation', 'The Kids Are Alright', 'Substitute', I'm A Boy', 'Happy Jack', 'Boris The Spider', 'Pictures of Lily'.....have I missed one yet?!

'The Who As and Bs' compilation please, it's a no-brainer.

The compilation I have (My Generation - The Very Best Of The Who) does not include "The Kids Are Alright" (which can be found in their debut album anyway), but the rest of the list is the same. Although half of the songs are repeated in their original albums, I'm pretty glad with this compilation because it includes the essential non-album singles from the 60's and some non-album singles from the 70's that not every compilation contains ("The Seeker"; "Let's See Action"; "Join Together"). But you're right, the Who's discography lacks a compilation like Past Masters or A's & B's.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Normandie on October 24, 2015, 08:47:58 PM


Baba O'Riley is being used as part of the trailer for The Peanuts Movie. I'm still in disbelief. Ugh, ugh, ugh.  icon_mad

http://www.peanutsmovie.com/trailer/ (http://www.peanutsmovie.com/trailer/)
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Klang on October 24, 2015, 09:28:41 PM

Baba O'Riley is being used as part of the trailer for The Peanuts Movie. I'm still in disbelief. Ugh, ugh, ugh.  icon_mad

[url]http://www.peanutsmovie.com/trailer/[/url] ([url]http://www.peanutsmovie.com/trailer/[/url])


Pretty bad. No connection whatsoever.

 :-\
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: In My Life on October 24, 2015, 10:46:22 PM
^^^
That does seem odd from a Who standpoint. And
 I can't accept Peanuts without Vince Guaraldi.
Title: Re: The Who
Post by: Klang on October 24, 2015, 11:25:18 PM

Yea. If anything jazz up the Guaraldi tunes or something. That's the heritage of this franchise.

 roll:)