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Author Topic: Break up.  (Read 3706 times)

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Dark Phoenyx

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2007, 11:00:37 AM »

So true Blue Meanie, it was John's choice to bring Yoko to the studio and the rest of the guys felt their space was invaded by that alien presence.... ::)
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Kevin

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2007, 11:21:11 AM »

Can't blame Yoko. I try and keep an open mind on this. If Paul had insisted on bringing Linda into the studio in '69, and all she did was sit in the corner and keep her mouth shut (which is what Yoko did)- would the world have pointed a finger at her precense (whether her fault or not) as being a contributor to the breakup.
I'm wary that many of our views of her may be unduly influenced by the fact that she was so different. And foreign.
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Bobber

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2007, 11:24:05 AM »

Quote from: 185
(which is what Yoko did)

That is not completely true. There's recordings of her screaming and I remember that she once pointed out her ideas on how to improve a certain song.
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Andy Smith

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2007, 12:44:24 PM »

Quote from: 63

That is not completely true. There's recordings of her screaming and I remember that she once pointed out her ideas on how to improve a certain song.

Yes, i think it was when they were recording Hey Bulldog & John was a
bit embarrased as it wasn't a very serious 'expressing yourself song' ;D but
Yoko did say that why don't they use a different tempo, (since when did
they become 'Lennon-McCartney-Ono) :P

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harihead

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2007, 01:16:09 PM »

Paul did in fact bring Linda in on several occasions, perhaps in a game of "if you bring yours, I'll bring mine." Geoff Emerick reports that Yoko was an abrasive, intrusive presence, whereas Linda was so polite and friendly that she was a pleasure to have in the studio. She also shut up and let the fellows do their work, whereas Yoko for some reason thought she was musically competent enough to comment on the Beatles' works in progress. She was an avant-garde artist who claimed she didn't even know who John was when she met him; this gives her musical insight precisely... how?

But Yoko wouldn't have been so intrusive if John hadn't used her to distance himself from the group, which is what he did. He encouraged Yoko to present her views, ignored the others to pay attention to her, and even announced that she would do all his speaking for him. Not the best way to carry on the Beatles, particularly as he could not have failed to notice that the others resented this intrusion into their creative process. I think John wanted to distance himself from the Beatles, and used Yoko to do it. As Yoko was eager to have John all to herself, this was a win-win for the couple and a losing proposition for the rest of the Beatles, whose only choice seemed to be "put up with John and Yoko's antics" or "break up the band".

I wish John had simply said "I'm done now" and walked away from the Beatles cleanly, if that's what he wanted to do. George was eager to be off on his own by then. I wish I had that snippet from some LIB studio tape where George is bringing up, very sensitively, how he'd like to record on his own. Not leave the band! Just... record on his own. They all could do it, but still get back together and do Beatles stuff, too. And Yoko says, "That's a good idea", which made me laugh, because she so obviously wanted to record with John on her own. I don't recall exactly how the conversation ended-- does anyone remember this? I found it on Youtube, but it was taken down. The impression I got was that John was undecided if this was a good idea or not. I think he wanted to keep the Beatles where he and Paul were undisputed top dog, even though he wanted to move in a different direction. I can understand how it would be hard to walk away from that kind of success. It's just sad that they did it anyway, in a far more painful manner than an intentional breakup.
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Re: Break up.
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2007, 01:31:35 PM »

It's good it ended the way it did, if it had ended nice , we would only have had the great music too talk about .
So from a purely selfish veiwpoint i like the conflict and drama , makes for great pantomime plenty of good guy's and villain's in this story.
Just glad i was'nt in the thick of it  ;)

DaveRam :)
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harihead

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2007, 02:13:27 PM »

LOL! I must say, DaveRam, I never considered the break-up in that way before. I suppose it does give us a modern myth... but I would have liked the dear Beatles to have been a little less tortured than they ended up being. *throws some rainbows around*
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

Kevin

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2007, 02:39:16 PM »

There is something beautiful in the great hippy peace-and-love dream collapsing under the weight of petty jealousies, rivalry and money concerns. Something of a tragedy at play there. Didn't Shakespeare nearly write "Four Merry Men Of Merseyside - a cautionary tale of love, deceit and excess - and some banging tunes."?
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harihead

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2007, 03:58:49 PM »

It is! It is a complete Shakespearean tragedy. Oh, the poor boys! *pets them*

However, while "petty jealousies, rivalry and money concerns" undoubtedly played a huge role, I still think there were artistic and personal growth issues at the root of it. The Beatles steadily refused (while they had any control) to sell their tunes for crass commercial purposes, and resisted all offers to reunite for truly princely sums. They were certainly subject to human flaws, but they had integrity even while apart.
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

Kevin

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2007, 04:07:32 PM »

Quote from: 551
It is! It is a complete Shakespearean tragedy. Oh, the poor boys! *pets them*

However, while "petty jealousies, rivalry and money concerns" undoubtedly played a huge role, I still think there were artistic and personal growth issues at the root of it. The Beatles steadily refused (while they had any control) to sell their tunes for crass commercial purposes, and resisted all offers to reunite for truly princely sums. They were certainly subject to human flaws, but they had integrity even while apart.

True. But integrity doesn't sell plays. Nor will "A tale of artistic and personal growth" pack them in the stalls. I shall have Yoko in her corner with her potions and spells while the minstrels munch their rotting and poison  Apple.
"Et tu Ringo?" shall be Paul's last line, he never able to sleep , the music from the other three his constant alarm.
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harihead

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2007, 04:51:00 PM »

 ;D

Shakespeare. Talk about your crass commercialist...   :D
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

alexis

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2007, 06:55:56 PM »

Quote from: 551
Paul did in fact bring Linda in on several occasions, perhaps in a game of "if you bring yours, I'll bring mine." Geoff Emerick reports that Yoko was an abrasive, intrusive presence, whereas Linda was so polite and friendly that she was a pleasure to have in the studio. She also shut up and let the fellows do their work, whereas Yoko for some reason thought she was musically competent enough to comment on the Beatles' works in progress. She was an avant-garde artist who claimed she didn't even know who John was when she met him; this gives her musical insight precisely... how?

But Yoko wouldn't have been so intrusive if John hadn't used her to distance himself from the group, which is what he did. He encouraged Yoko to present her views, ignored the others to pay attention to her, and even announced that she would do all his speaking for him. Not the best way to carry on the Beatles, particularly as he could not have failed to notice that the others resented this intrusion into their creative process. I think John wanted to distance himself from the Beatles, and used Yoko to do it. As Yoko was eager to have John all to herself, this was a win-win for the couple and a losing proposition for the rest of the Beatles, whose only choice seemed to be "put up with John and Yoko's antics" or "break up the band".

I wish John had simply said "I'm done now" and walked away from the Beatles cleanly, if that's what he wanted to do. George was eager to be off on his own by then. I wish I had that snippet from some LIB studio tape where George is bringing up, very sensitively, how he'd like to record on his own. Not leave the band! Just... record on his own. They all could do it, but still get back together and do Beatles stuff, too. And Yoko says, "That's a good idea", which made me laugh, because she so obviously wanted to record with John on her own. I don't recall exactly how the conversation ended-- does anyone remember this? I found it on Youtube, but it was taken down. The impression I got was that John was undecided if this was a good idea or not. I think he wanted to keep the Beatles where he and Paul were undisputed top dog, even though he wanted to move in a different direction. I can understand how it would be hard to walk away from that kind of success. It's just sad that they did it anyway, in a far more painful manner than an intentional breakup.

HI Harihead, I can't be sure, but I remember hearing something like that quite recently, and since I was listening to LIB nekked, I wonder if it is on that?

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Alexis

harihead

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2007, 07:10:20 PM »

Thanks, Alexis. I don't think it's on nekked, as that didn't have much chat. It was some guy posting unused songs from (I assume) the LIB sessions. That's where I heard the Beatles sing "Hear Me Lord"-- so glad they didn't do that one. The Beatles' strength was their sincerity, and only George could sing that song with any conviction.

Anyway, amongst all this was a short, just over a minute clip of George proposing that they do solo records without necessarily breaking up the Beatles. Not sure why the poster took all these down-- perhaps he'd received one of those scary "you're posting copyrighted material" notices.
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

Whoever

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2007, 07:46:20 PM »

I'm glad they didn't do "Hear Me Lord", all that sort of thing off of ATMP is crap as I hear it. Give me "Dig A Pony" any day. It's all about the same thing anyway.

The Beatles ended because they did, they were all 30 and had families and intrests far beyond satisfing fools who belived the Beales were it, what was the point of that if the Beatles weren't satisfying the Beatles? It would have gone all phony. It was right for them to end like they did and when they did, maybe it could have been a little more "nice" like not b****ing each other and themselves really, in songs and in yod MM. But as they started as optimist they end as pessimist, it's always like that. It's explained well in Anthology, but if you don't want to take that then take it how you like.

That is how I take it.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2007, 06:23:05 AM »

Quote from: 551
Thanks, Alexis. I don't think it's on nekked, as that didn't have much chat. It was some guy posting unused songs from (I assume) the LIB sessions. That's where I heard the Beatles sing "Hear Me Lord"-- so glad they didn't do that one. The Beatles' strength was their sincerity, and only George could sing that song with any conviction.

Anyway, amongst all this was a short, just over a minute clip of George proposing that they do solo records without necessarily breaking up the Beatles. Not sure why the poster took all these down-- perhaps he'd received one of those scary "you're posting copyrighted material" notices.

It's on one of the CD's in the Day By Day series. Feel free to download all 76 of them over at the Bootleg forum! ;D
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Bobber

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2007, 07:47:49 AM »

Quote from: 483

It's on one of the CD's in the Day By Day series. Feel free to download all 76 of them over at the Bootleg forum! ;D

Paul will be glad to re-upload them for you.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Break up.
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2007, 08:29:23 AM »

Quote from: 63

Paul will be glad to re-upload them for you.

Great, I knew you'd reveal my initiation task eventually!!

Actually, they're all still live.
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