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Beatles forums => The Beatles => Topic started by: I am the Paulrus on January 02, 2012, 06:35:41 PM

Title: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: I am the Paulrus on January 02, 2012, 06:35:41 PM
Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message enraging fans

Monday, January 2, 2012

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2081011/Cee-Lo-Green-changes-lyrics-Lennons-Imagine-include-pro-religion-message-enraging-fans.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2081011/Cee-Lo-Green-changes-lyrics-Lennons-Imagine-include-pro-religion-message-enraging-fans.html)

New Years Eve performer Cee Lo Green dropped a bomb on John Lennon fans Saturday night after changing lyrics to his song Imagine while on live television.
The last words of lyrics 'Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too,' by the late Lennon were changed to 'And all religion's true' by the hip-hop artist who sang in New York's Times Square.

Broadcast before 2.304 million viewers of NBC's New Year's Eve with Carson Daly right before the ball dropped, Mr Green's change didn't go unnoticed and attracted immediate criticism.

Mr Green swatted off those critical responses left and right on Twitter following, in sometimes similarly obscene rebuttals, but by late Sunday morning he had removed all of the postings.

'Yo I meant no disrespect by changing the lyric guys! I was trying to say a world were u could believe what u wanted that's all,' Mr Green was seen as explaining in a tweet.

'People need to respect the very man that you're trying to honor by playing his song,' New York musician Gary Heimbauer vented in a YouTube video 20 minutes after seeing the performance.

'You just changed his lyrics and completely reinvented the meaning of the song. That's just one of the most arrogant things I've ever seen, especially to do when the whole world is watching on New Year's Eve and John Lennon was just such an important person to New York City.

'That was just horrible and I hope that there is some more outrage to that and not just my own,' Mr Heimbauer said.
In agreement, a forum on Reddit mentioning the lyrics change collected 1,150 comments by Sunday afternoon, most of them in heated agreement.

One viewer originally came to Mr Green's defense explaining, 'You know, after watching the video of the performance, it's possible that he either f--ked up the line on the spot, or that he learned the tune incorrectly,' Reddit user Chrispdx wrote.

'I don't think this is some kind of 'powerful statement regarding God and Religion', I think he just f--ked up the lyrics because he didn't grow up with the song...' he concluded.
Several other Reddit users mentioned other artists changing Lennon's lyrics in the past too.
Moments after his post, Chrispdx's updated his response, however:

'Edit: read his tweet, he meant it, f--k that guy.'

See the video of it here:
http://bcove.me/3garx48t (http://bcove.me/3garx48t)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Nada Surf on January 02, 2012, 06:40:06 PM
This is rapidly becoming Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction of Beatle fans.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: I am the Paulrus on January 02, 2012, 06:40:33 PM
He should have sang "Imagine" the way it was written and intended to be performed. If he was going to prematurely change those lyrics, he should have sought Yoko Ono's permission, first! Who knows if she would have granted him permission or not? No matter what the outcome would have been, it still would draw the outrage of fans as it is now. I respect freedom of speech,but, there is a time and a place to do it. Cee Lo for messing up a beautiful and revered song as "Imagine" is the equivalent of forgetting the words or changing the words of the Nation Anthem. You screwed up big time! Cee Lo, you have just sunken to a new LOw!
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Nada Surf on January 02, 2012, 08:32:08 PM
He should have sang "Imagine" the way it was written and intended to be performed. If he was going to prematurely change those lyrics, he should have sought Yoko Ono's permission, first! Who knows if she would have granted him permission or not? No matter what the outcome would have been, it still would draw the outrage of fans as it is now. I respect freedom of speech,but, there is a time and a place to do it. Cee Lo for messing up a beautiful and revered song as "Imagine" is the equivalent of forgetting the words or changing the words of the Nation Anthem. You screwed up big time! Cee Lo, you have just sunken to a new LOw!
Under no circumstances does anyone EVER ask Yoko Ono for permission on ANYTHING! Beatle fans complaining about this word change (and it's not just here) give Beatle fans a bad name ...and, as always, it's the Yoko supporters.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: I am the Paulrus on January 02, 2012, 11:36:01 PM
Under no circumstances does anyone EVER ask Yoko Ono for permission on ANYTHING! Beatle fans complaining about this word change (and it's not just here) give Beatle fans a bad name ...and, as always, it's the Yoko supporters.

I'm on about him asking for Yoko' permission because she represents John's estate covering his music publication, art, etc. They are both in the enterainment business. They have agents/lawyers who could work that kind of thing out if they wanted to. Yoko is approachable because she sees over John's interests. I'm not the least bit interested if you say it's pro-Yoko people vs. anti-Yoko people! Or if we, as Beatles/Lennon fans, are going to make ourselves look bad by complaining about a word or lyric or verse change in "Imagine". There are going to be those who say it's the singer's freedom of expression that they can do what they like. I don't agree with that. If you are going to sing it, sing it as it is written. Don't go sticking your own words into it, unless you are "Weird Al" Yankovic. There are people who like to do different musical variations of a song. Fine.  Even "Weird Al"  had to ask for permission of an artist to do a parody of whichever song of theirs that he's going to do.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 02, 2012, 11:56:44 PM
my take on this is that, Johns lyrics were a huge part of his songs and very integral to what the song was portraying so he should not have changed them.

BUT......am I the only one thinking this is a publicity stunt to get his name in the press big time ?
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 03, 2012, 01:53:14 AM
Who gives a sh*t? Seriously, who cares? If anything See More Green ,or whatever his name is, changed the song for the better. People should feel lucky to have nothing but this to worry about.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: peterbell1 on January 04, 2012, 01:01:15 PM
my take on this is that, Johns lyrics were a huge part of his songs and very integral to what the song was portraying so he should not have changed them.

BUT......am I the only one thinking this is a publicity stunt to get his name in the press big time ?

Agreed ... and agreed.

He should have left the song lyrics alone - why choose to perform a famously anti-religious song and try to shoe-horn some religious comment into it? There are many religious songs he could have sung instead.

Which certainly seems to point to the fact that he did it purely to attract attention - no publicity is bad publicity, as they say.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 04, 2012, 07:50:04 PM
famously anti-religious song

This is why the song sucks. The fact that humanity idolizes the song due to its message, and the person who wrote it, paints a clear picture as to why the world is so f***ed up. John could of wrote it as a positive tune, but as usual that was too hard for him. Now we have somebody who did display it in a positive light and he's getting berated for it. Whats wrong with this picture? People suck. A little piece of positive energy being crushed for that very reason.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: In My Life on January 04, 2012, 08:37:13 PM
This is why the song sucks. The fact that humanity idolizes the song due to its message, and the person who wrote it, paints a clear picture as to why the world is so f***ed up. John could of wrote it as a positive tune, but as usual that was too hard for him. Now we have somebody who did display it in a positive light and he's getting berated for it. Whats wrong with this picture? People suck. A little piece of positive energy being crushed for that very reason.

I used to have a problem with this song myself but I look at it differently now than I used to;  still within the context of my faith. As far as Cee Lo Green goes, I don't disagree with his sentiment but I think he should have written his own song to express it. This was a lot like plagarism.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Ovi on January 04, 2012, 08:51:43 PM
I used to have a problem with this song myself but I look at it differently now than I used to;  still within the context of my faith. As far as Cee Lo Green goes, I don't disagree with his sentiment but I think he should have written his own song to express it. This was a lot like plagarism.

I actually agree with that. If he didn't like the song's message and John's vision he should've picked another song. But then again, the fans' reaction is ridiculous and exaggerated as always. Hope it doesn't go as far as the "We're more pupular than Jesus" "war" in '66 though. :)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Joost on January 04, 2012, 11:19:52 PM
This is kind of stupid. If you're not behind the message of the original song, then don't sing it.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: peterbell1 on January 04, 2012, 11:42:53 PM
This is why the song sucks. The fact that humanity idolizes the song due to its message, and the person who wrote it, paints a clear picture as to why the world is so f***ed up. John could of wrote it as a positive tune, but as usual that was too hard for him. Now we have somebody who did display it in a positive light and he's getting berated for it. Whats wrong with this picture? People suck. A little piece of positive energy being crushed for that very reason.

I have to disagree here.

Lennon is basically saying that the world would be a better place if there were fewer things to fight about, such as countries, possessions, and - yes - religion.
Whatever your views of religion, it can't be denied that it has been behind much trouble on this planet over the years - as have struggles between countries over borders, or fighting centered on assets ("possessions") such as oil or whatever.

He is advocating peace - what is not positive about that? I don't think that the song "sucks" in the slightest. Yes, it's a very simplistic message, and yes, he is "a dreamer", but I don't think it is a cynical attack on religion - I see it as a pro-peace song.

And getting back to Cee-Lo Green, I still think he should have left the lyrics alone or else left the song alone altogether and performed something that did suit what he wanted to say.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 05, 2012, 12:06:56 AM
I have to disagree here.

Lennon is basically saying that the world would be a better place if there were fewer things to fight about, such as countries, possessions, and - yes - religion.
Whatever your views of religion, it can't be denied that it has been behind much trouble on this planet over the years - as have struggles between countries over borders, or fighting centered on assets ("possessions") such as oil or whatever.

He is advocating peace - what is not positive about that? I don't think that the song "sucks" in the slightest. Yes, it's a very simplistic message, and yes, he is "a dreamer", but I don't think it is a cynical attack on religion - I see it as a pro-peace song.

And getting back to Cee-Lo Green, I still think he should have left the lyrics alone or else left the song alone altogether and performed something that did suit what he wanted to say.

well said Peter, I agree with all you say..

The song sucked so much its been voted best single ever quite  few times in polls, wish I could write such a bad song  ha2ha

Its a publicity stunt, he knew exactly what he was doing and it worked.

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Joost on January 05, 2012, 08:29:30 AM
John could of wrote it as a positive tune, but as usual that was too hard for him. Now we have somebody who did display it in a positive light and he's getting berated for it.

I suppose that the question if it's a positive song or not depends on your personal view on religion.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: stevie on January 05, 2012, 09:45:53 AM
Who is this Green guy?
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: In My Life on January 05, 2012, 10:14:48 AM
Who is this Green guy?

He's the lead singer for the band Gnarls Barkley.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 05, 2012, 01:38:00 PM
I suppose that the question if it's a positive song or not depends on your personal view on religion.

I guess it does.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 05, 2012, 01:50:11 PM
Whatever your views of religion, it can't be denied that it has been behind much trouble on this planet over the years - as have struggles between countries over borders, or fighting centered on assets ("possessions") such as oil or whatever.

Because people are stupid. If its not religion it would be money, or politics, or something else. Lets face it, the human race is just too dumb to live in peace. Its not our nature. Put two people together on a table with a glass of water and theres bound to be an argument for some reason. Once again,,,people suck.

Quote
He is advocating peace - what is not positive about that?

By imagining things dont exist? Its such a negative message I cant fathom how people love the song so much (the sheep are followers though). Instead of thinking there is no heaven, how about we all believe that there is one. Wonder how people would react to that? Well, if Imagines message isnt clear enough, I suppose people can always listen to his 'God'. There's a real happy one.

Quote
I don't think that the song "sucks" in the slightest. Yes, it's a very simplistic message, and yes, he is "a dreamer", but I don't think it is a cynical attack on religion - I see it as a pro-peace song.

I think its horrible. Even without the message, the song itself does nothing for me.

Quote
And getting back to Cee-Lo Green, I still think he should have left the lyrics alone or else left the song alone altogether and performed something that did suit what he wanted to say.

I commend him.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 05, 2012, 01:55:31 PM
The song sucked so much its been voted best single ever quite  few times in polls, wish I could write such a bad song  ha2ha

Three chords, a negative message and there you go. Shouldnt be very hard.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Lennon93 on January 05, 2012, 03:20:00 PM
I believe in God, but not as one thing,
not as an old man in the sky.
I believe that what people call God
is something in all of us.
I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha
and all the rest said was right.
It's just that the translations have gone wrong.
- John Lennon

Around this John wrote both Imagine and God. It is really clear.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: peterbell1 on January 05, 2012, 03:40:33 PM
... people are stupid... the human race is just too dumb to live in peace... people suck...

You should put that to music - I think you may have just out-negatived Mr Lennon there!  ;)

Personally, I don't think you can paint the entire human race with such a negative image - there are probably more sinners out there than saints, but that's no need to write off humanity as a whole. You can still believe in the possibility of a "Brotherhood of Man" as Lennon invites us to.


... I cant fathom how people love the song so much (the sheep are followers though).

If you have to be a sheep to like Imagine then ..... Baaaaaaaaaaa   ;)


Instead of thinking there is no heaven, how about we all believe that there is one. Wonder how people would react to that?

There are many, many religious songs out there calling on listeners to believe this or believe that. Yet they don't attract criticism from non-believers the way that this one song by John Lennon gets criticised by believers. People are entitled to believe what they want at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Lennon93 on January 05, 2012, 03:50:47 PM
It is funny how tkitna calls people sheep (followers) for liking this song (while talking about religion), and then he wants to beliave in one heaven. Seems the only sheep here tkitna is you. That is something about John spoke. People who follow religion like blind awating for some kind of after life reward are sheep. Find heaven in yourself.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 05, 2012, 04:48:22 PM
I believe in God, but not as one thing,
not as an old man in the sky.
I believe that what people call God
is something in all of us.
I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha
and all the rest said was right.
It's just that the translations have gone wrong.
- John Lennon

Around this John wrote both Imagine and God. It is really clear.

It is really clear that John got it wrong. I think what John was trying to go for was to explain the Holy Spirit, but thats not the whole picture. He never did get the whole picture.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 05, 2012, 04:53:44 PM
It is funny how tkitna calls people sheep (followers) for liking this song (while talking about religion), and then he wants to beliave in one heaven. Seems the only sheep here tkitna is you. That is something about John spoke. People who follow religion like blind awating for some kind of after life reward are sheep. Find heaven in yourself.

Yeah, I only believe in one heaven and one God, and I admit to being a follower,,,,in Christ. I'll easily accept that. Its a shame you cant put the energy you have for a mere sinning human, into the Lord, but its practically expected in this day and age.

You can only find heaven through Christ. Not yourself.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Mairi on January 05, 2012, 05:06:08 PM
This is kind of stupid. If you're not behind the message of the original song, then don't sing it.

my sentiments exactly.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Nada Surf on January 05, 2012, 06:31:17 PM
Imagine IS a great song (especially the music), but if this guy wanted to change the words to "Imagine a world without Yoko" he could have done that. He ONLY owes Yoko money if he makes money on the song...To the guy who said "if this is all you have to worry about" I have to completely agree...Lighten up people..This is a non-incident!
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: peterbell1 on January 05, 2012, 07:13:18 PM
You'd never catch me changing the lyrics to a famous John Lennon song - no way!

Oh - hold on ......  :P

Give Pete a Chance by Pete Bell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHgSFMk_Umc#)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Gary910 on January 05, 2012, 07:25:42 PM
Todd we have respectfully disagreed on different topics. I strongly disagree with you on this one as well.

I think the song is beautiful in it's simplicity.

I also think you are extremely negative and cynical yourself. I don't mean that to insult you. I say it with respect for your opinions. I enjoy, or shall I say, I think your opinions are valuable. They just typically are negative and cynical. Maybe that is your aim. That is okay. (As if you needed my validation and acceptance...)

Now, back to the topic, I don't think anyone should have asked Yoko's opinion. I think the song should not have been changed. This performer has taken liberties without even understanding what the song is about or the original intention. If he thought it should say something different he should "Give The Fans A Chance", to respond to his changes, and yet that is really not possible either.

As far as religion goes, nothing in human history has caused more bloodshed, violence, greed and all things bad. I do not believe that there is good in all religion. I believe that the true God has one religion he favors. That one is the religion that follows what he has layed out for mankind. If you want to know which one it is... Go on a search, ask humbly in your heart, you will find. I can't answer the question here. Not the place for it, nor is this the place for a religious debate. Enough said... on that.

Now enough of my ramblings...
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 05, 2012, 08:10:10 PM
I also think you are extremely negative and cynical yourself. I don't mean that to insult you.

Your absolutly correct 100%. I realize i'm a negative person and I need to work harder on it. Unfortunately, I was raised as a glass half empty type of person. I prepare for the worst and if anything better than that happens, its a plus. My wife hates it. Just last night she called me the most negative person she has ever met.

I will say this though, unlike John Lennon, I dont pretend to be anybody but myself. I'll leave it at that.

Quote
As far as religion goes, nothing in human history has caused more bloodshed, violence, greed and all things bad. I do not believe that there is good in all religion. I believe that the true God has one religion he favors. That one is the religion that follows what he has layed out for mankind. If you want to know which one it is... Go on a search, ask humbly in your heart, you will find. I can't answer the question here. Not the place for it, nor is this the place for a religious debate. Enough said... on that.

Well said. Really that was nicely put. I'm the last person to go on a religious or political rant, but I think my pastor prompted this from last Sunday. He said that us (being Christians) are the minority anymore and we are looked upon as aliens. I thought about it and he's right. I'm tired of people b****ing and feeling offended if I mention God. They should be the offended ones (maybe they are), because they are wrong.

I'm done. Peace.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Nada Surf on January 06, 2012, 01:20:13 AM
I think the singer, who I've never heard of, wanted all religions to get along...
Big deal?
Whatya' say we sentence him to four months of Paul's granny music?
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 06, 2012, 02:48:43 AM
Three chords, a negative message and there you go. Shouldnt be very hard.

yeah but it coming up with a melody thats the hard bit (especially one that people will remember and sing)  ???

now come on Todd, this is one of THE most positive songs ever written, of course its a dream but just imagine....no countries etc etc
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: In My Life on January 06, 2012, 08:27:44 AM
..To the guy who said "if this is all you have to worry about" I have to completely agree...Lighten up people..This is a non-incident!

Who ever said that's all they had to worry about? Obviously this is not the most important thing in anyone's life! But since this is a forum for Beatles fans it's not a stretch to discuss it.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 06, 2012, 09:25:12 AM
I think the singer, who I've never heard of, wanted all religions to get along...
Big deal?
Whatya' say we sentence him to four months of Paul's granny music?

good idea  ha2ha

Ive thought more about this though and to sum up I think its disrespectful, I mean if John was still alive he couldve asked him if he'd minded the new lyric but as Johns long dead its disrespectful to change his words, Im sure those words were carefully chosen and important to John
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 06, 2012, 03:29:42 PM
now come on Todd, this is one of THE most positive songs ever written, of course its a dream but just imagine....no countries etc etc

No on both accounts. (With all due respect Kev, because your one of the good ones and I hope i'm not offending)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Nada Surf on January 06, 2012, 07:14:32 PM
good idea  ha2ha

Ive thought more about this though and to sum up I think its disrespectful, I mean if John was still alive he couldve asked him if he'd minded the new lyric but as Johns long dead its disrespectful to change his words, Im sure those words were carefully chosen and important to John
I think just the opposite...If John were alive, he would have applauded the guy since he was saying pretty much the same thing...He also would have told you all to quit being ridiculous before he went back to ignoring you all...
Please, more of you need to read Seamann's "The Final Days of John Lennon."
He was NOTHING as Yoko would have you believe he was!
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 06, 2012, 11:06:04 PM
I think just the opposite...If John were alive, he would have applauded the guy since he was saying pretty much the same thing...He also would have told you all to quit being ridiculous before he went back to ignoring you all...
Please, more of you need to read Seamann's "The Final Days of John Lennon."
He was NOTHING as Yoko would have you believe he was!

Yes but Johns NOT alive is he ?

and its your opinion that he wouldve applauded the guy, you dont know that..your purely surmising based on a trashy book you just read (yes Ive read it, and I dont believe much of what Fred says to be honest)

I still say its disrespectful to change a songs lyrics after the writer has died....should we start changing Shakespeare's plays also ? maybe some textspeak so young 'peeps' can dig it more..
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Nada Surf on January 07, 2012, 01:30:50 AM
Yes but Johns NOT alive is he ?

and its your opinion that he wouldve applauded the guy, you dont know that..your purely surmising based on a trashy book you just read (yes Ive read it, and I dont believe much of what Fred says to be honest)

I still say its disrespectful to change a songs lyrics after the writer has died....should we start changing Shakespeare's plays also ? maybe some textspeak so young 'peeps' can dig it more..
Tony Bramwell says this is one of the best Beatle books ever written...Seamann's description of how Lennon lived the last year of his life would have been echoed by several of Lennon's friends, Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, George Harrison among others, and was echoed by others who lived in that home or were among the few visitors that Yoko would allow either in or to talk on the phone...
But if you want to keep believing that John baked a lot of bread while raising his kid, you go right ahead.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 07, 2012, 01:40:23 AM
He definitely wasnt the hero everybody thinks he was. I laugh at all the idolization.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 07, 2012, 01:40:48 AM

But if you want to keep believing that John baked a lot of bread while raising his kid, you go right ahead.

I'll take that to mean you think Im stupid and in that case I'll back out of this debate  :)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Nada Surf on January 07, 2012, 03:36:56 AM
I'll take that to mean you think Im stupid and in that case I'll back out of this debate  :)
Nobody said you were stupid....I'm just wondering where your critical thinking was.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: In My Life on January 07, 2012, 03:43:36 AM
He definitely wasnt the hero everybody thinks he was. I laugh at all the idolization.

I don't look at him as a hero, nor do I idolize him. I do think he was a very talented man who was possibly one of the most interesting people I've ever read about.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 07, 2012, 06:56:41 AM
I don't look at him as a hero, nor do I idolize him. I do think he was a very talented man who was possibly one of the most interesting people I've ever read about.

Thats a good statement. I agree with you, he was interesting and very talented.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 12, 2012, 03:53:28 AM
wonder if Cee lo thinks this religion is ok (f***ing disgusting imo)

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/15542711 (http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/15542711)

A 16-year-old girl was buried alive by relatives in a gruesome Turkish honour killing - because she befriended boys.

Acting on a tip-off, police discovered Medine Memi's body in a sitting position with her hands tied, in a two-metre-deep hole in a chicken pen outside her house.
A post mortem revealed that she had a significant amount of soil in her lungs and stomach, meaning that she was buried alive, foresic experts told the Anatolia agency.
The girl was discovered in Kahta town, Adiyaman province, 40 days after she went missing.
"The autopsy result is blood-curdling," one anonymous expert said.


"According to our findings, the girl - who had no bruises on her body and no sign of narcotics or poison in her blood - was alive and fully conscious when she was buried."
Medine's father and grandfather have been arrested and jailed pending trial over her killing, the agency said.
The father is reported to have said in his testimony that the family was unhappy she had male friends.
In honour killings, most prevalent in Turkey's mainly Kurdish South East, a so-called family council names a member to murder a female relative.
A victim is targeted if she is considered to have sullied the family honour, usually by engaging in an extra-marital affair.
The practice has seen rape victims or women who simply talked to strange men murdered.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 12, 2012, 06:05:48 AM
Thats messed up.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 17, 2012, 12:06:56 PM


I always wanted to change the opening line to Imagine "this" is Heaven.

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Mairi on January 17, 2012, 03:38:15 PM
Just wanted to point out that the lyric is "IMAGINE" there's no heaven, not simply "there's no heaven". Food for thought.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 17, 2012, 05:19:42 PM
Just wanted to point out that the lyric is "IMAGINE" there's no heaven, not simply "there's no heaven". Food for thought.

Yes............................................ And I always thought it should have been imagine THIS is heaven.


Food for thought.

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 18, 2012, 01:37:03 AM
Just wanted to point out that the lyric is "IMAGINE" there's no heaven, not simply "there's no heaven". Food for thought.

Its the same message.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 18, 2012, 01:57:09 AM
Just wanted to point out that the lyric is "IMAGINE" there's no heaven, not simply "there's no heaven". Food for thought.

my take on this is that John is asking us to imagine that people dont believe in religion anymore and that might lead to us all being the same, no religions, no nationalities etc etc then hopefully no more wars
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Joost on January 18, 2012, 10:02:28 AM
Its the same message.

I disagree. "There's no heaven" would be an atheist statement. "Imagine there's no heaven" isn't. That's just asking people, "Hey, even if you believe that there's a heaven, just pretend for a minute that there isn't a heaven, would that change the way you look at life?".
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: peterbell1 on January 18, 2012, 01:07:03 PM
From what I've read, John was more anti- organised religion rather than anti- spirituality or all-out atheist.

This quote from him has already been mentioned in this thread ...

I believe in God, but not as one thing,
not as an old man in the sky.
I believe that what people call God
is something in all of us.
I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha
and all the rest said was right.
It's just that the translations have gone wrong.
- John Lennon

I think that his lines "Imagine there's no heaven" and "no religion too" are not condemning spirituality; he is basically asking us to ponder what the world would be like if we didn't have all the different types of religion. Although religion does bring people together in a localised sense, it keeps people apart globally. He's looking at the picture on a global scale and saying wouldn't it be great if we could all "live as one" if we didn't have things like countries and religions to argue and fight over. He's asking us to imagine how things would be if we could forget our differences with our fellow man and simply love one another. Surely that's a VERY spiritual message at the heart of the song.

It's the same simple message that is behind Give Peace a Chance - drop all the "-isms" and believe in peace.

Imagine is so clever lyrically because he doesn't just come out and say "Do this", "do that" - he asks us as individuals to "Imagine" and "dream", so that change will occur in our hearts and our heads, and only then is there a chance of it becoming reality.
And he doesn't set himself up as some sort of leader - "perhaps some day you'll join US", he says, so he's just part of a bigger crowd of dreamers who believe in world peace.

Cee Lo Green missed all this when he changed the song's lyrics.
His change to "all religion's true" doesn't even make sense - how can all religions be true if each religion is asking us to believe in separate Gods and follow different sets of rules?
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 18, 2012, 11:20:44 PM
for me, thats an excellent post peter  ;yes
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 19, 2012, 01:36:52 AM
I disagree. "There's no heaven" would be an atheist statement. "Imagine there's no heaven" isn't. That's just asking people, "Hey, even if you believe that there's a heaven, just pretend for a minute that there isn't a heaven, would that change the way you look at life?".

Ok, so instead of him telling us to do something, he's asking us to to do it. There's no difference. 'There's no heaven' is an atheist statement and rather than just coming out and saying it, John asks us to 'Imagine' there's no heaven which in my opinion is John asking us to adopt the atheist belief. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference except that he asks instead of tells.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Lennon93 on January 19, 2012, 07:09:24 PM
It's a song about love and peace. Imagine all people in the world living in peace without religion or any other organization to make us hate each other or kill. You can be believer but don't let that make you hate or disrespect someone who is different than you. In some way (for me) Cee Lo's lyrics are telling same thing as Lennon's. Believe in what you want but respect others. Religion should be something personal.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Joost on January 19, 2012, 07:20:20 PM
Ok, so instead of him telling us to do something, he's asking us to to do it.

I don't think he's asking anyone to change their religious beliefs. He's just asking the listener to imagine it for a minute, that's all.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 19, 2012, 09:12:54 PM
Believe in what you want but respect others. Religion should be something personal.

I agree. John shouldnt have brought it up at all, but he had a history of doing so.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 19, 2012, 09:16:26 PM
I don't think he's asking anyone to change their religious beliefs. He's just asking the listener to imagine it for a minute, that's all.

Why would he ask though? Heaven is the embodiment of happiness and peace and yet, he's asking us to forget about it. I cant see anything positive about that.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Joost on January 19, 2012, 09:39:38 PM
Why would he ask though? Heaven is the embodiment of happiness and peace and yet, he's asking us to forget about it. I cant see anything positive about that.

It's a carpe diem vs. memento mori thing. I think that not believing in heaven can be a good motivation to get the most out of life of earth.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: peterbell1 on January 19, 2012, 11:03:41 PM
Why would he ask though? Heaven is the embodiment of happiness and peace and yet, he's asking us to forget about it. I cant see anything positive about that.

He also asks us to imagine that there's no hell below us, which surely IS a positive thing....
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 20, 2012, 02:15:50 AM
I think i'm just going to imagine that John Lennon was an a**hole and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 20, 2012, 04:57:59 AM
I think i'm just going to imagine that John Lennon was an a**hole and leave it at that.

 ha2ha

my view is that whether you think John was an a**hole or not (and I think we are all capable of that) I liked the fact that he used his fame to constantly promote love & peace and not war......even his xmas song is anti war.

I never saw Elvis, Jacko or Dylan do anything comparable with their influence.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 20, 2012, 08:33:27 AM
ha2ha

my view is that whether you think John was an a**hole or not (and I think we are all capable of that) I liked the fact that he used his fame to constantly promote love & peace and not war......even his xmas song is anti war.

Thats wonderful and thats how John wanted everybody to see him as the promoter of peace and love, when in truth, he was a horrible human being and manipulator. I dont buy his disguise.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 20, 2012, 08:00:37 PM
Instant Karma - John lennon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP3wT5lpa4#)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 20, 2012, 09:08:27 PM
Once again, you've added nothing to the thread.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 20, 2012, 09:18:04 PM
Maybe he did, Todd.  You can't have a revolution without Madame Defarge!



(http://i44.tinypic.com/mcewqr.jpg)



(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XI8T6t_qTlM/Th7ygY8W4fI/AAAAAAAAAw4/8YCry94IIs4/s1600/Madame%2Bla%2Bfarge.jpg)



 ha2ha
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 20, 2012, 09:29:47 PM
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing017.gif)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 20, 2012, 10:34:47 PM
Thats wonderful and thats how John wanted everybody to see him as the promoter of peace and love, when in truth, he was a horrible human being and manipulator. I dont buy his disguise.

whatever his reasons, Im glad he did it
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Lennon93 on January 20, 2012, 11:53:17 PM
John Lennon - Remember (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8gIzkCHvK4#ws)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 21, 2012, 12:41:57 AM
Thats wonderful and thats how John wanted everybody to see him as the promoter of peace and love, when in truth, he was a horrible human being and manipulator. I dont buy his disguise.

So Im guessing Todd that if you won my imaginary competition and the prize was dinner and an evening at the Dakota with John you would turn it down ?
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 21, 2012, 12:59:24 AM
So Im guessing Todd that if you won my imaginary competition and the prize was dinner and an evening at the Dakota with John you would turn it down ?

At this stage in my life, yes. I dont care if you believe me or not, but its true. 10 or even 5 years ago, I would have went.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 21, 2012, 01:02:23 AM
At this stage in my life, yes. I dont care if you believe me or not, but its true. 10 or even 5 years ago, I would have went.

No, I believe you Todd, its fair enough if you feel that way about him
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 21, 2012, 01:41:10 AM
Maybe he did, Todd.  You can't have a revolution without Madame Defarge! ha2ha
nor can you have a proper revolution without zombies!

A Hard Day's Night of the Living Dead Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVv2t3Rl3V8#)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 21, 2012, 01:57:56 AM
It is really clear that John got it wrong. I think what John was trying to go for was to explain the Holy Spirit, but thats not the whole picture. He never did get the whole picture.

You are the one who never gets the whole picture.

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 21, 2012, 02:17:33 AM
You are the one who never gets the whole picture.

If I didnt know any better, i'd almost swear that your comment was personal.

The sad thing is that your right a good bit of the time. Sorry about my tangents lately.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 21, 2012, 02:35:11 AM
You are the one who never gets the whole picture.

please keep to the thread topic and not personal remarks  :)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 21, 2012, 08:50:07 PM
I think i'm just going to imagine that John Lennon was an a**hole and leave it at that.
for my money that's a pretty corrupt, self-serving, insensible, awful and delusional statement to make. imagine is a powerful track with powerful lyrics and a powerful message of world peace. John Lennon was an angel, his music changed the world.

cee lo green what is there to say, his bling bling interpretation is corny and corrupt. ???
 ;yes

john lennon Plays The Ukulele "its only love " (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcRuunnDW_4#)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 21, 2012, 09:38:41 PM
If I didnt know any better, i'd almost swear that your comment was personal.

The sad thing is that your right a good bit of the time. Sorry about my tangents lately.

The point I was making is your replies seemed always have this authorative GTFOOH kind of tone.  As if your opinion is always the final word on a topic.

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 21, 2012, 09:42:16 PM
for my money that's a pretty corrupt, self-serving, insensible, awful and delusional statement to make. imagine is a powerful track with powerful lyrics and a powerful message of world peace. John Lennon was an angel, his music changed the world.


John might have been an Angel, but he could also be a theif, a bully and a selfish bas---- too. 

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 22, 2012, 12:40:21 AM
for my money that's a pretty corrupt, self-serving, insensible, awful and delusional statement to make.

John Lennon was an angel, his music changed the world.

Without spelling to much out for you, you do realize he was a womanizer, horrible father, herion junkie, drunk and an all around prick to most people he knew right?

Yeah, what a saint.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 22, 2012, 03:00:05 AM
Without spelling to much out for you, you do realize he was a womanizer, horrible father, herion junkie, drunk and an all around prick to most people he knew right?

Yeah, what a saint.

 ha2ha
are you a journo Todd ?

That description could fit most rock stars out there

Womanizer = name me a rock star who hasnt bedded a few groupie's (and dont say Paul, he's shagged more women than Ive had hot dinners  ha2ha)

Horrible Father = I take it you mean to Julian, he certainly wasnt to Sean, he was a great father, as far as Julian is concerned, unlucky for him he was a child in an unhappy marriage, his father suddenly became one of the most famous men in the world, who had bigger demands on his time than me or you will ever come to know, his presence was suddenly reqd in every country in the world......how could he be with Julian as a full time father, non of the others had that problem..........anyway whether he was that bad, you'd have to ask Julian, only he knows, Im not gonna believe what people write in books/newspapers, Ive seen loads of pictures of John with Julian. (even in Fred Seamans book)

Heroin Junkie/Drunk = again the excesses of many many rock/Jazz musicians over the years, hendrix/Clapton/Joplin/Morrison/Townsend/Miles Davis/Charlie Parker/Jaco Pastorius/John Coltrane etc etc ..........were they all pricks?

I dont think you or I could even begin to imagine the pressures of mega stardom, not until youve been there and done that.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 22, 2012, 05:02:01 AM
ha2ha
are you a journo Todd ?

That description could fit most rock stars out there

Most rock stars arent looked upon as God's gift to peace and love though Kevin.

Quote
Womanizer = name me a rock star who hasnt bedded a few groupie's (and dont say Paul, he's shagged more women than Ive had hot dinners  ha2ha)

I realize most, if not all, rockstars screwed a few women, but I cant recall many of them taking one to their wifes bed and waiting for her and your small child to come home to witness it.

Quote
Horrible Father = I take it you mean to Julian, he certainly wasnt to Sean, he was a great father, as far as Julian is concerned, unlucky for him he was a child in an unhappy marriage, his father suddenly became one of the most famous men in the world, who had bigger demands on his time than me or you will ever come to know, his presence was suddenly reqd in every country in the world......how could he be with Julian as a full time father, non of the others had that problem..........anyway whether he was that bad, you'd have to ask Julian, only he knows, Im not gonna believe what people write in books/newspapers, Ive seen loads of pictures of John with Julian. (even in Fred Seamans book)

Sorry, I cant agree with you here. Being famous or not, I could never be a sh*tty father to my children and as far as I know, Julian hasent been quick with those father of the year awards. John even told Paul on holiday that he didnt know how to be a father. I'll take his word for it.

Quote
Heroin Junkie/Drunk = again the excesses of many many rock/Jazz musicians over the years, hendrix/Clapton/Joplin/Morrison/Townsend/Miles Davis/Charlie Parker/Jaco Pastorius/John Coltrane etc etc ..........were they all pricks?

But he was an angel wasnt he? Thats how people look at him. As for being a prick, I cant say about the others. I'm only going off of what friends and people associated with John have said. Even John said it himself.

Quote
I dont think you or I could even begin to imagine the pressures of mega stardom, not until youve been there and done that.

Never said I could, nor am I seen as the embodiment of a peace and love activist.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 22, 2012, 05:17:25 AM

John might have been an Angel, but he could also be a theif, a bully and a selfish bas---- too.

Agreed
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 22, 2012, 06:42:38 AM
I think Albert Goldman summed John up very well, he said he could be anything basically, a very complex character who could write a song as beautiful as Love and next day be quite nasty..

Ive certainly never thought he was any sort of angel  ha2ha

Im thinking though that if your asked to choose between Mum & Dad at a very young age and then brought up by your strict aunt while Mum doesnt want you .....it would have a quite a lasting and damaging effect on your mind
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 22, 2012, 07:07:18 AM
I think Albert Goldman summed John up very well, he said he could be anything basically, a very complex character who could write a song as beautiful as Love and next day be quite nasty..

Yeah, thats about a perfect description.

Quote
Ive certainly never thought he was any sort of angel  ha2ha

7 of 13 said he was though.

Quote
Im thinking though that if your asked to choose between Mum & Dad at a very young age and then brought up by your strict aunt while Mum doesnt want you .....it would have a quite a lasting and damaging effect on your mind

I agree, but is that excuse enough to give him a free pass? I know some awesome people that have come from worse.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 22, 2012, 09:39:37 AM


I agree, but is that excuse enough to give him a free pass? I know some awesome people that have come from worse.

who knows mate, who knows
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 22, 2012, 01:27:41 PM

Im thinking though that if your asked to choose between Mum & Dad at a very young age and then brought up by your strict aunt while Mum doesnt want you .....it would have a quite a lasting and damaging effect on your mind

Yeah, John Lennon spent his whole life complaining how he was abandoned at 6, only to do the exact same thing to his son Julian.

Nice.

Quote
  As far as Julian is concerned, unlucky for him he was a child in an unhappy marriage, his father suddenly became one of the most famous men in the world, who had bigger demands on his time than me or you will ever come to know, his presence was suddenly reqd in every country in the world......how could he be with Julian as a full time father, non of the others had that problem..........anyway whether he was that bad, you'd have to ask Julian, only he knows, Im not gonna believe what people write in books/newspapers, Ive seen loads of pictures of John with Julian. (even in Fred Seamans book)

John didn't dump his son Julian during Beatlemania.  He dumped him in 1968 and then had almost nothing to do with him until shortly before his death.  Show me some photos of John & his son Julian taken in the 10 years between 1969-1979.

I say again.  Nice.

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 23, 2012, 12:09:03 AM

John might have been an Angel, but he could also be a thief(sic), a bully and a selfish bas---- too.
such mindless, irrelevant and impotent speculation. i'll give you half-credit for the real John Lennon being a bully.
 ;sorry
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 23, 2012, 12:15:50 AM
Without spelling to much out for you, you do realize he was a womanizer, horrible father, herion junkie, drunk and an all around prick to most people he knew right?

Yeah, what a saint.
wait a minute. you are holding the real life john lennon and the mythical Beatle john lennon to a sloppy and ridiculous collection of mediocre double standards. besides that is the film noir version of john lennon, probably a very poor reflection of the truth. unbelievable.

john lennon was a flesh and blood human being just like the rest of us, but most of what you have stated is bogus, colorless and irrelevant speculation. and you don't bother to explain the whys, hows or wherefores of this and how this supposedly makes john lennon a good or a bad person.

I think Albert Goldman summed John up very well, he said he could be anything basically, a very complex character who could write a song as beautiful as Love and next day be quite nasty..
i don't know about the quite nasty the next day-shapeshifter thing, but many have said that goldman overdid it and was inaccurate. in some many distinct places. 
Quote
Ive certainly never thought he was any sort of angel  ha2ha
just wondering outloud, isn't that a big part of the teddy boy image.

Quote
Im thinking though that if your asked to choose between Mum & Dad at a very young age and then brought up by your strict aunt while Mum doesnt want you .....it would have a quite a lasting and damaging effect on your mind
my thoughts exactly. and how he was treated in school, nobody is perfect.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 23, 2012, 01:06:33 AM
wait a minute. you are holding the real life john lennon and the mythical Beatle john lennon to a sloppy and ridiculous collection of mediocre double standards. besides that is the film noir version of john lennon, probably a very poor reflection of the truth. unbelievable.

john lennon was a flesh and blood human being just like the rest of us, but most of what you have stated is bogus, colorless and irrelevant speculation. and you don't bother to explain the whys, hows or wherefores of this and how this supposedly makes john lennon a good or a bad person.

Are you trying to say that my descriptions of him are not true? If so, you better pick up a book and do a lot of homework. John was indeed everything I said.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 23, 2012, 02:01:32 AM
Yeah, John Lennon spent his whole life complaining how he was abandoned at 6, only to do the exact same thing to his son Julian.

Nice.



I think thats grossly unfair, I know your mainly a Pete Best fan but thats a terrible thing to say about him, I only hope Julian isnt reading these pages.......
John split up with Cyn, he knew absolutely that she was a good stay at home mother and could do a hundred times better job than him in bringing Julian up, him being on the road or in the studio all night/day etc etc
John was in the biggest band in the world, should he have fought for custody only to employ a nanny to bring him up day to day ?

John obviously didnt love Cyn, are you saying he shouldve stayed with a woman he had no love for until Julian was grown up ?

and are you saying everyone who is in a loveless marriage should do that ?

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: peterbell1 on January 23, 2012, 10:57:26 AM
Not sure what any of this has to do with Cee Lo Green's version of Imagine, but I'll chip in anyway...  ha2ha

I wouldn't say, as someone did earlier in this thread, that John "abandoned" Julian between 69 and 79. John did spend time with Julian when he and Yoko were still living in the UK - John, Yoko, Julian and Kyoko went on holiday to Scotland in June 69 ...
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_q-h-qoGbrIY/TMzOdol1axI/AAAAAAAAAqc/V2vzp_0C6S8/s320/73525_10150290349035174_735110173_15520436_5139103_n.jpg)

(the choice of outfit could certainly count as cruelty to children though  ;D )

Julian also spent time at Tittenhurst with J+Y, and he features in the Imagine film.
Obviously, after J+Y left for the States the time with Julian was cut to irregular visits, but there were still letters and calls across the Atlantic between the two (some of the letters and gifts John sent to Julian ended up in the excellent White Feather exhibition that Julian put together in Liverpool.) And Julian had a cameo appearance on the Walls and Bridges LP. So I certainly wouldn't say that John abandoned Julian altogether.

However, on the other side of the coin, someone earlier in the thread was defending John's poor treatment of Julian because John was in the biggest band in the world and there were a lot of demands on his time. Well, Macca never seemed to have had a problem with spending time with his step-daughter while he was still in the Beatles or with his own kids once they arrived in the '70s. Obviously, it's a different scenario because Paul was in a stable relationship with Linda while John and Cynthia had split up, and Paul had had the benefit of having the presence of a loving father himself, (unlike John), but I still do think that John could, and should, have made more effort with his first son.

So it's a complex picture - Lennon certainly wasn't a saint or an angel, but he wasn't a complete and utter b*stard either.

I've always wondered if I would even have liked John if I ever had the chance to spend time with him, but it still doesn't detract from the fact that he made some amazing music - and I count Imagine among that (just to keep this thread on topic slightly!). And he did indeed spend a fair bit of his own time in the late 60s/early 70s campaigning for a more peaceful world, which was no bad thing.

This sort of thread would probably never take off with Macca or Ringo as subjects - George, perhaps, was complex enough to promote this sort of discussion, and John definitely was, so we should be grateful at least that he has given us something to talk about!!  ;)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 23, 2012, 11:54:18 PM
Are you trying to say that my descriptions of him are not true? If so, you better pick up a book and do a lot of homework. John was indeed everything I said.
that's exactly what i'm saying. you can't seem to separate the real john lennon from the mythical beatle john lennon, and you seem quite content to holding him to incomplete and obtuse doublestandards, moral relativism, womanizer, etc.
 ;sorry
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Nada Surf on January 24, 2012, 01:31:23 AM
Goldman took indecent liberties with others' quotes of John Lennon, but most of his book was factual.
Lennon's treatment of Julian was pathetic.
Like Kitna said, his childhood ruined him mentally and he need lots of psychiatric help.
Just don't buy this baking bread every day while raising Sean. He did none of that.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 24, 2012, 02:09:21 AM

Just don't buy this baking bread every day while raising Sean. He did none of that.

you were in the Dakota at the time eh mate ?   

 ha2ha
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 24, 2012, 12:12:03 PM
that's exactly what i'm saying. you can't seem to separate the real john lennon from the mythical beatle john lennon, and you seem quite content to holding him to incomplete and obtuse doublestandards, moral relativism, womanizer, etc.
 ;sorry

See this is why its so hard to talk to you on this forum. You look at everything the exact opposite of how it really is. You say I cant seperate the real John Lennon from the mythical Beatle persona and thats exactly what i'm doing. The mythical Beatle John is portrayed as a fun loving guy who was so whimsical that it was almost impossible not to love him (just look at 95% of this forum), but yet the real John Lennon was not a great person.

Whether you choose the fact to turn a blind eye or not is totally up to you, but the facts are that John cheated on Cynthia and Yoko (some say he beat her but I dont know that for sure), was not a good father to Julian, was a jerk to a lot of his friends, took many drugs, and went through periods where he drank like a fish. If you know anything about the guy, you'll know this to be true. Was he a terrible person all the time, no, but i'm betting it was way more often than people want to believe.

There's just a lot of things he did that rubs me the wrong way. I mean, who goes and has an affair with a woman even if their wife tells them to? Thats wrong. He was married and took his vows. People shouldnt go out and break those vows, but then again, I wouldnt hold John Lennon to stick by those standards and he didnt. I still believe his mouth got Stu killed. Sure it was an accident, but they shouldnt have been in that position in the first place. I also believe he had a homosexual relationship with Brian too and I dont believe in that either, but thats here nor there. Speaking of being cruel to people, its been said that he was horrible to Brian but I wasnt there. Anyways, all of these things seem to be pushed aside by Beatle fans. Just as long as John was singing about giving peace a chance and imagining things, he could never have been a bad person now could he?
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 24, 2012, 12:44:20 PM
Quote
Anyways, all of these things seem to be pushed aside by Beatle fans.


what do you mean by that ?
I dont push anything aside.... I dont care if he had an affair, I dont care if he got drunk etc etc and why do you choose to believe that he had an affair with Brian ? why do you believe somebody like Albert Goldman over Paul George & ringo, and even if he did I dont care, Im not the oracle of all thats moral, I believe in live & let live, all I know is he was originally the leader of a band I absolutely loved and still love 40 years on, I will be forever and eternally grateful to John & Paul for the brilliant songs they wrote which have been the soundtrack to my early life - and millions of others, I feel really blessed that I grew up listening to them..

Ive no idea why posters come on here talking about what a horrible lousy prick of a human being John was because Fred Seaman said so or Elliot Mintz or Goldman or whoever, Ive no idea what they hope to achieve, is it supposed to make me no longer a fan  of Johns ?, cos if thats your agenda then forget it, Its not gonna happen, I really couldnt give a flying feck whether he baked bread or not......if there is a different reason then please explain.
I love the guy and his great songs have given me so much pleasure and I hope they play A Day In The Life at my funeral.

Thats my last words on that and I hope people will now please stop treating the guy like he was a mass murderer
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Lennon93 on January 24, 2012, 06:50:07 PM
of course John wasn't saint, and everybody here knows that but when somebody writes something like when in truth, he was a horrible human being and manipulator that is something offensive for a lot of people here. I don't understand you tkitna. I guess you were brainwashed by some stupid book or something.

Just like i said, i think he was a great guy. He made some mistakes but we all do. But reading your posts tkitna i cant but not to see some deep hatred for him. Seems like you are just waiting for something to hear and drop it here with words i don't know but i believe it true. Drinking or taking drugs doesn't make somebody horrible person - those problems were John's personal demons not ours.

I love after all that post full of hatred (horrible person, junkie, wife beater, jerk, homosexual, got Stu killed,... ) how you mentioned the most important thing John was singing about giving peace a chance. And that is a fact. You may think whatever you want but John sang and fought for peace. And nobody can't take that from him.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Ovi on January 24, 2012, 06:55:39 PM
of course John wasn't saint, and everybody here knows that but when somebody writes something like when in truth, he was a horrible human being and manipulator that is something offensive for a lot of people here. I don't understand you tkitna. I guess you were brainwashed by some stupid book or something.

Just like i said, i think he was a great guy. He made some mistakes but we all do. But reading your posts tkitna i cant but not to see some deep hatred for him. Seems like you are just waiting for something to hear and drop it here with words i don't know but i believe it true. Drinking or taking drugs doesn't make somebody horrible person - those problems were John's personal demons not ours.

I love after all that post full of hatred (horrible person, junkie, wife beater, jerk, homosexual, got Stu killed,... ) how you mentioned the most important thing John was singing about giving peace a chance. And that is a fact. You may think whatever you want but John sang and fought for peace. And nobody can't take that from him.

I don't think that tkitna has any problems with John as a person, but with the fact that people see him as a "god" rather than a succesful musician. Of course he wasn't perfect but that's not the point of this debate. I think he made himself pretty clear in his previous posts. :)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 24, 2012, 07:08:49 PM

what do you mean by that ?
I dont push anything aside.... I dont care if he had an affair, I dont care if he got drunk etc etc and why do you choose to believe that he had an affair with Brian ? why do you believe somebody like Albert Goldman over Paul George & ringo, and even if he did I dont care, Im not the oracle of all thats moral, I believe in live & let live, all I know is he was originally the leader of a band I absolutely loved and still love 40 years on, I will be forever and eternally grateful to John & Paul for the brilliant songs they wrote which have been the soundtrack to my early life - and millions of others, I feel really blessed that I grew up listening to them..

Ive no idea why posters come on here talking about what a horrible lousy prick of a human being John was because Fred Seaman said so or Elliot Mintz or Goldman or whoever, Ive no idea what they hope to achieve, is it supposed to make me no longer a fan  of Johns ?, cos if thats your agenda then forget it, Its not gonna happen, I really couldnt give a flying feck whether he baked bread or not......if there is a different reason then please explain.
I love the guy and his great songs have given me so much pleasure and I hope they play A Day In The Life at my funeral.

Thats my last words on that and I hope people will now please stop treating the guy like he was a mass murderer
thank you. well said nimrod.

Quote from: tkitna
...but yet the real John Lennon was not a great person
or so you say. seems to me you are just hating upon john lennon, and little else, your extremely dull and haphazardous moralizations knows no bounds. and are hardly reflective of the truth.

Quote
Was he a terrible person all the time, no, but i'm betting it was way more often than people want to believe.
you don't really know, you certainly weren't there, so your incongruent, sloppy and vapid opinions merit little concern. and if you would be so kind, stop playing the he-said-she-said game, it is IMHO counterproductive.  ;)

your drunken and shapeless ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) strawmen aside, you do continue to make careless, colorless and irrelevant generalizations, this is incredible nonsense.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 24, 2012, 10:38:57 PM
I don't think that tkitna has any problems with John as a person,

so when he said;

Quote
I think i'm just going to imagine that John Lennon was an a**hole and leave it at that.

and 

Quote
Without spelling to much out for you, you do realize he was a womanizer, horrible father, herion junkie, drunk and an all around prick to most people he knew right?

Yeah, what a saint.

he didnt really mean it ?
 ha2ha
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Joost on January 24, 2012, 10:58:14 PM
your drunken and shapeless ad hominem ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem[/url]) strawmen aside, you do continue to make careless, colorless and irrelevant generalizations, this is incredible nonsense.
 ;yes


And your constant habit of dismissing absolutely everything that you personally don't agree with as complete nonsense is getting a bit annoying, if you ask me. No offense meant, that's just the way I see it.
 ;sorry
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 24, 2012, 11:12:47 PM
of course John wasn't saint, and everybody here knows that but when somebody writes something like when in truth, he was a horrible human being and manipulator that is something offensive for a lot of people here.



yeah I think your right Lennon93, I got a bit offended yesterday at all the anti John stuff so I apologize for my rant earlier   2ch
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 25, 2012, 12:04:12 AM
what do you mean by that ?

Whats hard to understand? Besides the delusional 7 of 13 saying he was an angel and still defending him saying he did nothing wrong in his lifetime, how many people worldwide or even here think he was a saint because he wrote a song about peace and love and promoted himself as such? If we are just talking about John Lennon as a musician, he's an incredible talent. I just dont feel he was a good person. I think people are getting the two mixed up. Most people ignore what kind of person he was because he was a great songwriter and musician. Thats all.

I love Johns Beatle music and his talent, but I wouldnt want him dating my daughter.
 
Quote
I dont push anything aside.... I dont care if he had an affair, I dont care if he got drunk etc etc and

Thats cool. I'm just standing my point that he was no angel.

Quote
why do you choose to believe that he had an affair with Brian ?

Well, it was almost a love affair, but not quite. It was never consummated. But it was a pretty intense relationship. - John Lennon.

I guess your right. I suppose it wasnt an affair, but good lord, thats enough to make me sick anyways.

Quote
why do you believe somebody like Albert Goldman over Paul George & ringo,

Not sure that I do since i've never read his book.

Quote
and even if he did I dont care, Im not the oracle of all thats moral, I believe in live & let live, all I know is he was originally the leader of a band I absolutely loved and still love 40 years on, I will be forever and eternally grateful to John & Paul for the brilliant songs they wrote which have been the soundtrack to my early life - and millions of others, I feel really blessed that I grew up listening to them..

Thats cool and i'm glad your like that. I'm probably a worse person than most and have no right to judge anybody else. Just saying theres two sides to the story. Do I like John Lennon,,,yes. I love his music and his sense of humour, but he did some things in life that I dont agree with and when he was said to be an angel, I responded.

Quote
Ive no idea why posters come on here talking about what a horrible lousy prick of a human being John was because Fred Seaman said so or Elliot Mintz or Goldman or whoever, Ive no idea what they hope to achieve,

Should everybody say and look at just the positive things? Thats kind of one sided dont you think?

Quote
is it supposed to make me no longer a fan  of Johns ?, cos if thats your agenda then forget it, Its not gonna happen, I really couldnt give a flying feck whether he baked bread or not......if there is a different reason then please explain.
I love the guy and his great songs have given me so much pleasure and I hope they play A Day In The Life at my funeral.

I dont think anybodys trying to convince you to change how you feel. I'm not anyways. I'm just trying to say he wasnt the angel he is always portrayed as being.

Quote
Thats my last words on that and I hope people will now please stop treating the guy like he was a mass murderer

As long as people dont treat him as Mother Teresa, we'll all be fine.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 25, 2012, 12:17:20 AM
of course John wasn't saint, and everybody here knows that but when somebody writes something like when in truth, he was a horrible human being and manipulator that is something offensive for a lot of people here. I don't understand you tkitna. I guess you were brainwashed by some stupid book or something.

Calling the guy an angel is offensive to me. Speaking of being brainwashed by books or something, how did you get to know John so well to form your opinion?

Quote
Just like i said, i think he was a great guy.

Well of course you do. Most people do. Maybe he was. Do any of us really know for sure?

Quote
He made some mistakes but we all do. But reading your posts tkitna i cant but not to see some deep hatred for him. Seems like you are just waiting for something to hear and drop it here with words i don't know but i believe it true. Drinking or taking drugs doesn't make somebody horrible person - those problems were John's personal demons not ours.

I dont hate him. I never knew him personally. He did alot of good things for people and meant a lot to a bunch of people and thats awesome. Trust me when I say that I fully realize the positive things the guy has going for him, BUT he wasnt perfect and thats what i'm pointing out. Once again, he did things in his life that I dont agree with, but so did the other three. Yjey're not exempt from my opinion either.

Quote
I love after all that post full of hatred (horrible person, junkie, wife beater, jerk, homosexual, got Stu killed,... ) how you mentioned the most important thing John was singing about giving peace a chance. And that is a fact. You may think whatever you want but John sang and fought for peace. And nobody can't take that from him.

He sang about a lot of things. Some I dont agree with. I dont agree with Imagine or his song God. Maybe I miss the message, but I dont like them. Thats a fact.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 25, 2012, 12:20:27 AM
your extremely dull and haphazardous moralizations knows no bounds. and are hardly reflective of the truth.


Then tell me the truth. I need to hear it from you how the things I said about him arent true. I need you to tell me that he didnt cheat on his wife, take drugs, and so forth. Please tell me.

Quote
you don't really know, you certainly weren't there, so your incongruent, sloppy and vapid opinions merit little concern. and if you would be so kind, stop playing the he-said-she-said game, it is IMHO counterproductive.  ;)


Nobody is as lost as you on this forum and I mean that in the kindest way (sorry mods).

Quote
your drunken and shapeless ad hominem ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem[/url]) strawmen aside, you do continue to make careless, colorless and irrelevant generalizations, this is incredible nonsense.
 ;yes


Tell us the truth.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 25, 2012, 12:22:20 AM
I don't think that tkitna has any problems with John as a person, but with the fact that people see him as a "god" rather than a succesful musician. Of course he wasn't perfect but that's not the point of this debate. I think he made himself pretty clear in his previous posts. :)

Thank you because you got it.

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 25, 2012, 12:26:19 AM
yeah I think your right Lennon93, I got a bit offended yesterday at all the anti John stuff so I apologize for my rant earlier   2ch

Your entitled Kev and I hope we're good, because I meant no disrespect towards you. Sorry I p*ssed you off. People respond to me like that a good bit and I have no idea why.  ha2ha
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 25, 2012, 01:50:47 AM
Quote
Should everybody say and look at just the positive things? Thats kind of one sided dont you think?

As a human being Ive always regarded John as damaged goods, through no fault of his own, I cant imagine being asked to choose between your parents as a kid, in your small immature mind it would mean never seeing one of them again.....massive massive psychological damage. I dont think any of us should underestimate the effect it could have.
John was no angel, John could be cruel, imo a result of the above.

Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 25, 2012, 03:12:27 AM
And your constant habit of dismissing absolutely everything that you personally don't agree with as complete nonsense is getting a bit annoying, if you ask me. No offense meant, that's just the way I see it.
 ;sorry
remote offtopic blather = the fail.  roll:)  roll:)  roll:)
 ;yes

Quote
Besides the delusional 7 of 13 saying he was an angel and still defending him saying he did nothing wrong in his lifetime
ZOMG! the delusional con artist is you tkitna. what you have stated is arbitrary, irrelevant and total nonsense. you take my simple statements out of context, i never said john lennon ever did anything right nor did i say he did anything wrong, stop making things up.  roll:)  i am merely pointing out the hypocritical nature of your moral sermonizing here, the doublestandards you seek to employ, the out and out biases of your ridiculous assortment of paperthin assertions, cleverly disguised as hating upon john lennon.  *sigh*
 ;yes
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: In My Life on January 25, 2012, 04:42:55 AM
As a human being Ive always regarded John as damaged goods, through no fault of his own, I cant imagine being asked to choose between your parents as a kid, in your small immature mind it would mean never seeing one of them again.....massive massive psychological damage. I dont think any of us should underestimate the effect it could have.
John was no angel, John could be cruel, imo a result of the above.

I agree. It's impossible to overstate the effect that maternal rejection has on a child. Add to it the horrible scene between the parents and Mimi then losing the mum he never really had and its no wonder he had the anger issues. That's really where his bad behavior came from; anger. He also had such a gifted mind and kids like that who are not challenged mentally often develop real emotional issues. There was a good article on this topic a few months ago in Rolling Stone. Anyway, these are not excuses for his behavior, merely facts that serve as an explanation. It's just too bad that he never got help for these issues as a young person.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Lennon93 on January 25, 2012, 12:32:01 PM
Calling the guy an angel is offensive to me. Speaking of being brainwashed by books or something, how did you get to know John so well to form your opinion?

I don't know John well - only though his songs, videos, interviews, some well known facts about his life etc. And i can say that he was a good guy. And my opinion is not extreme ( saint / terrible ) like yours - so i would like to see your answer to this question. Did you know John really well to wrote stuff like you did. I know John wasn't saint but when i see/hear somebody write/say that i will not say to him that he was horrible person, jerk, wife beater, junkie etc.

Well of course you do. Most people do. Maybe he was. Do any of us really know for sure?

I don't know. It's a personal thing - do you see someone as a good person until proven bad, or otherwise.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 25, 2012, 02:35:15 PM
As a human being Ive always regarded John as damaged goods, through no fault of his own, I cant imagine being asked to choose between your parents as a kid, in your small immature mind it would mean never seeing one of them again.....massive massive psychological damage. I dont think any of us should underestimate the effect it could have.
John was no angel, John could be cruel, imo a result of the above.

Yeah, thats a good point. He probably did well to keep it all together as often as he did. I couldnt imagine making the same decision.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 25, 2012, 02:40:52 PM
ZOMG! the delusional con artist is you tkitna. what you have stated is arbitrary, irrelevant and total nonsense. you take my simple statements out of context, i never said john lennon ever did anything right nor did i say he did anything wrong, stop making things up.  roll:)  i am merely pointing out the hypocritical nature of your moral sermonizing here, the doublestandards you seek to employ, the out and out biases of your ridiculous assortment of paperthin assertions, cleverly disguised as hating upon john lennon.  *sigh*
 ;yes

Once again, sidestepping my wish for you to tell me the things I said about John werent true. I know you cant so its fun watching you duck the truth. I mentioned a few negative things about John and you replied with a statement of those things being nonsense and you called him an angel. I ask you again, come on here for all to see and tell me the things I said werent the truth. You cant.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 25, 2012, 02:51:03 PM
I don't know John well - only though his songs, videos, interviews, some well known facts about his life etc.

Well isnt this the pot calling the kettle black. You blame me for basing my opinions on books and such and we come to find out that your doing the same to refute my claims. Hmmmm

Quote
And i can say that he was a good guy.

Yeah, its convenient to only look at the positive things. Most people are like that.

Quote
And my opinion is not extreme ( saint / terrible ) like yours -

So why bother to post your opinion at all?

Quote
so i would like to see your answer to this question. Did you know John really well to wrote stuff like you did. I know John wasn't saint but when i see/hear somebody write/say that i will not say to him that he was horrible person, jerk, wife beater, junkie etc.

I didnt know him at all. Did you know him to come to your conclusion that he was a good guy?

The funny thing is that Nada brought up Tony Bramwell who actually did know John, and he said that John wasnt a good fellow, but we're all going to ignore that arent we. Typical.

Quote
I don't know. It's a personal thing - do you see someone as a good person until proven bad, or otherwise.

When the actual person admits to his wrong doings, its pretty hard not to believe it.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 25, 2012, 07:11:32 PM
Once again, sidestepping my wish for you to tell me the things I said about John werent true. I know you cant so its fun watching you duck the truth. I mentioned a few negative things about John and you replied with a statement of those things being nonsense and you called him an angel. I ask you again, come on here for all to see and tell me the things I said werent the truth. You cant.
once again tkitna, it is in fact you that is routinely making the most unobjective statements here, and of course your trademark boatload of obscene, outrageous and childish assertions. and obviously, it's up to you to prove them. you talking in circles and relying upon secondhand information is bogus, your comical assertions and insanely unrealistic "cornfed" moralizations, the icing on the cake. your pc distortions are no substitute for the truth. totally. fecking. irrelevant.
Quote
I mentioned a few negative things about John and you replied with a statement of those things being nonsense...
you can't be serious. it is nonsense, for many and manifold reasons. roll:) first and foremost, you cannot prove a single thing you have said, that much is extremely obvious. you are relying upon kiss and tell, glitz and glam style books that seem to make the convenient error of spotlighting Johns youthful arrogance in a bad light. that is criminal. your irrelevant, spotty and derelict pseudo-conjecture is bogus and only serves to paint John, the beatles, and everything that goes with it in a bad light. and this is going nowhere fast.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 26, 2012, 01:30:19 AM
you can't be serious. it is nonsense, for many and manifold reasons. roll:) first and foremost, you cannot prove a single thing you have said, that much is extremely obvious. you are relying upon kiss and tell, glitz and glam style books that seem to make the convenient error of spotlighting Johns youthful arrogance in a bad light. that is criminal. your irrelevant, spotty and derelict pseudo-conjecture is bogus and only serves to paint John, the beatles, and everything that goes with it in a bad light. and this is going nowhere fast.
 ;yes

See, this is why nobody takes you seriously. You are just absolutely clueless. You claim that I rely on books and other things, but what in the hell do you think everybody relies on? How did you learn anything about John Lennon (i'm beginning to think you havent)? Did you pal around with him when he was in the Beatles? Did you stop off at the Dakota for tea once in awhile? No, but yet you are sure nothing I say about the guy is true although its mentioned in tons of publications, interviews, and peoples accounts that were close to him. He himself has never denied any of it, but yet it cant be true in your eyes. I mean Cynthia has even written a book or two about John that mentions his cheating and how he acted with Julian, but my god, that cant be true even though she lived with the guy. Heck no, she just must be bitter because he left her and thats why she said some of those nasty things. Right? Thats got to be it. John Lennon could never be or act like that. He was a freaking angel.

You are just too stupid to even discuss this with and if that gets me banned for saying it, so be it.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 26, 2012, 03:19:21 AM
How did you learn anything about John Lennon (i'm beginning to think you havent)? Did you pal around with him when he was in the Beatles? Did you stop off at the Dakota for tea once in awhile?
whole lotta' nothing there tkitna. never said i did, even so your drunken strawmen tell a sad tale. one that indicates that intelligent debate about these issues is next to impossible, that is, without first demonizing john lennon the human being and in the process criticizing john the beatle. minus the improper behavior he displayed towards Cynthia in his youth, i have no reason to believe he was a bad apple. many here have said precisely the same thing. and your lukewarm, mawkish statements and "too little too late" "cornfed" assertions lead nowhere. John was a peace activist and brutally honest to others, something that apparently you refuse to acknowledge.
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3038/algladygagalennonpiano.jpg)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 26, 2012, 04:06:19 AM
your irrelevant, spotty and derelict pseudo-conjecture is bogus and only serves to paint John, the beatles, and everything that goes with it in a bad light.

Don't forget tkitna's filthy Eastern ways!
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 26, 2012, 04:28:05 AM
Don't forget tkitna's filthy Eastern ways!


(http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/lol8.gif)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 26, 2012, 04:43:04 AM
whole lotta' nothing there tkitna. never said i did,


Then why do you refute the facts that he did what he did. I just want you to admit them even if its easier for you to pretend they didnt happen.

Quote
intelligent debate about these issues is next to impossible,


With you, I agree.
 
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without first demonizing john lennon the human being and in the process criticizing john the beatle.


Whats so wrong about calling him out for what he has done? Remember, I also admitted he has done a lot of good things too.

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minus the improper behavior he displayed towards Cynthia in his youth, i have no reason to believe he was a bad apple.


I have no reason to believe he was a good apple. What has he done to prove he was besides sing a few tunes about peace and love? Has he given to charities? Has he fed the hungry? Has he healed the sick? I want to know about stuff like that, because I dont know. Just singing songs and running your mouth doesnt do it for me.

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many here have said precisely the same thing. and your lukewarm, mawkish statements and "too little too late" "cornfed" assertions lead nowhere.


Yeah, with people like you who dont understand it. I'm just saying (and all i've been saying) is that John wasnt the poster child for a good person. He had a fair share of bad behaviors.

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John was a peace activist and brutally honest to others, something that apparently you refuse to acknowledge.


I've repeatedly said he was a peace activist and as for being brutally honest, he seemed to p*ss a lot of people off? Maybe thats why the associate him as being a prick

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([url]http://www.autismlearningfelt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/ladygaga.jpg[/url])


Why did you feel the need to post this picture? Seriously, what does Lady Gaga playing Johns piano have to do with anything? See things like this cause you to lose any credibility that you hope to gain. Just posting a random picture causes me to feel you arent playing with a full deck. Well that and reading your posts.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 26, 2012, 06:22:25 PM
you are demonizing john lennon the man, your one sided delusional commentary, hopelessly linear statements and timid and gutless assertions are at best arbitrary nonsense, and are irrelevant. your uncritical pc distortions and woefully inept, drunken strawmen tell a very sad tale, and bear little resemblance to the truth. you also fail to recognize that john was a peace activist, made the same mistakes we all do, and was a real person underneath the tidal wave known as beatlemania. you pretending to know john lennon better than most and foolishly making out john lennon to be a purely evil person is corrupt and unthinkable beyond measure.
 ;sorry
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 27, 2012, 01:22:48 AM
you are demonizing john lennon the man, your one sided delusional commentary,


I've admitted many times in this thread that he has done good things and wasnt all bad, but you fail to recognize that. I'm beginning to believe that you just cant comprehend things.

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hopelessly linear statements and timid and gutless assertions are at best arbitrary nonsense,


Nothing I have said in this thread is a lie. Prove me wrong.

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your uncritical pc distortions and woefully inept, drunken strawmen tell a very sad tale,


Yes, the truth can hurt at times when its not what you want to hear.

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and bear little resemblance to the truth.


If it wasnt the truth, you would jump at the chance to prove it wrong, but you cant so you continue to repeat yourself by basically calling me a liar.

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you also fail to recognize that john was a peace activist, made the same mistakes we all do, and was a real person underneath the tidal wave known as beatlemania.


I've stated that John sang and preached about peace and love several times throughout this thread. Glad to see your admitting John made some mistakes. I've said he was only human how many times in this thread? Basically, i've said all the things you posted that I didnt several times in the thread, but you just cant seem to understand.
 
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you pretending to know john lennon better than most


Already admitted that I didnt know him at all except for what i've read, heard, and seen,,,just like everybody else around here. Please try to keep up.

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and foolishly making out john lennon to be a purely evil person is corrupt and unthinkable beyond measure.
 ;sorry


Purely evil? No. Evil at times? Yes. And he was. Now if you have no proof to change that, keep your mouth shut. Just like John said -

JOHN LENNON - "GIMME SOME TRUTH" HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlzrNKN3rZI#ws)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 27, 2012, 02:50:23 AM
oh the irony! tkitna you are an incredibly shallow and confused person, your timid and bankrupt pc assertions, drunken strawmen, dimestore commentary and woefully inadequate, imbecilic, meandering conclusions lead nowhere. you talking out of both sides of yer precious little mouth is quite uncourageous, your lukewarm semi-lucid "cornfed" moralizing an obscenity. get it straight.
;sorry

john lennon Plays The Ukulele "its only love " (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcRuunnDW_4#)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 27, 2012, 02:56:37 AM
oh the irony! tkitna you are an incredibly shallow and confused person, your timid and bankrupt pc assertions, drunken strawmen, dimestore commentary and woefully inadequate, imbecilic, meandering conclusions lead nowhere. you talking out of both sides of yer precious little mouth is quite uncourageous, your lukewarm semi-lucid "cornfed" moralizing an obscenity. get it straight.
;sorry


Like an irritating itch he reappears, but has no purpose.

Here's one dedicated to you 7 of 13. Johns personal experience of kicking heroin. WAIT A MINUTE!!!! A person like John hooked on heroin? Blasphemy! Its got to be a lie.

John Lennon - Cold turkey (video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtcUEP6goZ0#)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 27, 2012, 04:39:33 AM
oh the irony! tkitna you are an incredibly shallow and confused person, your timid and bankrupt pc assertions, drunken strawmen, dimestore commentary and woefully inadequate, imbecilic, meandering conclusions lead nowhere. you talking out of both sides of yer precious little mouth is quite uncourageous, your lukewarm semi-lucid "cornfed" moralizing an obscenity. get it straight.
;sorry

john lennon Plays The Ukulele "its only love " ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcRuunnDW_4#[/url])


You forgot to mention his filthy eastern ways.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on January 27, 2012, 05:08:47 AM
I think you guys should quit now, youve both made your points and theres no point keep in keep calling each other names.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 27, 2012, 06:10:25 AM
Lock her up Kev
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 27, 2012, 06:52:57 PM
oh the irony. others here have echoed my exact sentiments nimrod, and the uncritical, bombastic responses manufactured by tkitna leave little to the imagination. my belief is he is just trying to derail the image of john lennon the peace activist, which is what he was, and to demonize the real john lennon. for what possible gain i can only wonder. i just don't understand this idea that since john had sex with girls, possibly engaged in recreational drug use beyond tea, was one of the beatles, and was a world class musician, that he automatically is an evil person. as others have pointed out this is nothing but unrealistic hating upon john lennon, his personal relationships with others is irrelevant, and in any event should not take away from his brutal honesty and conviction. it is precisely this type of 20/20 "cornfed" pc tunnelvision biases, and akward and fractured reasoning that i find counterproductive, unobjective and irrelevant.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on January 27, 2012, 07:52:08 PM
and the uncritical, bombastic responses manufactured by tkitna leave little to the imagination.

No need to use your imagination when its the truth.

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my belief is he is just trying to derail the image of john lennon the peace activist, which is what he was, and to demonize the real john lennon.

The real John Lennon demonized himself with some of the things he did.

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for what possible gain i can only wonder.

Because you called him an angel and he wasnt.

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possibly engaged in recreational drug use beyond tea,

Not possible, he did. He admitted it even if you wont. Also, being strung out on herion is hardly engaging in recreational drugs. Thats what is called a junkie.

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as others have pointed out this is nothing but unrealistic hating upon john lennon, his personal relationships with others is irrelevant,

Its as irrelevant as him singing about peace and love then. Its a part of his life that I reflected on, but nobody wants to go there for some reason. Man up and start admitting that he did some not so great things in life.

 
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and in any event should not take away from his brutal honesty and conviction. it is precisely this type of 20/20 "cornfed" pc tunnelvision biases, and akward and fractured reasoning that i find counterproductive, unobjective and irrelevant.

Right, you like many others, choose to just see the positive aspects and ignore anything negative he did. I find it productive to know the real John Lennon and just not the choir boy image that most people relate to him. Try to see both sides Sherlock.

Hey, Ringo was a drunk and slapped Barbara around once too. You want to talk about that next?
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Joost on January 27, 2012, 09:33:06 PM
my belief is he is just trying to derail the image of john lennon the peace activist, which is what he was

Writing a few songs with the word "peace" in it and staying in bed for two weeks hardly makes you an activist.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 27, 2012, 09:37:01 PM
Writing a few songs with the word "peace" in it and staying in bed for two weeks hardly makes you an activist.
oh puhleeze mr Joost, not today.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 27, 2012, 09:45:37 PM
Writing a few songs with the word "peace" in it and staying in bed for two weeks hardly makes you an activist.


John Lennon - Give peace a chance (live) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGfMfy1WAWo#)


(http://i44.tinypic.com/11mfioh.jpg)

"What a mess they made!"
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Joost on January 27, 2012, 10:02:57 PM
oh puhleeze mr Joost, not today.
 ;yes

What's your point? I admire John Lennon for being a musical innovator, a charismatic personality and one of the greatest songwriters that ever lived. But I can't take him seriously as a "peace activist". It's my impression that his "peace activism" was little more to him than a temporary hobby to pass the time and something that he could write songs about.

I was trying to make a serious point and I think I'm entitled to my own opinion. If you want to prove me wrong with good arguments, please be my guest. But don't be an ass, please.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 27, 2012, 10:33:42 PM
But, John Lennon did qualify as a political activist during the final ten years of his life as evidenced by his involvement with the James Hanratty affair, the Clydeside UCS workers protest, the Chicago Seven Trial, and the Bloody Sunday incident in Northern Ireland. 

While he lived in New York City, I remember him donating $1,000 to purchase bullet-proof vests for the New York City Police Department.

I'm not sure what happened with the sales of Give Peace A Chance in 1969.  The record reached #14 on the Billboard Hot 100 and #2 on the British singles chart.  On November 3, 2009, Yoko announced that net proceeds from the sale of a commemorative 40th Anniversary digital iTunes single would go to the United Nations Peacebuilding Fund.  iTunes exclusively offered the single‚Äôs special anniversary edition for download purchase, with net proceeds benefiting the PBF through December 31st of that year.



Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 28, 2012, 04:33:18 AM
Shower Peace...


The Rutles - John and Yoko (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI1tdvH2L4U#)


Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 30, 2012, 12:31:08 AM
What's your point? I admire John Lennon for being a musical innovator, a charismatic personality and one of the greatest songwriters that ever lived. But I can't take him seriously as a "peace activist". It's my impression that his "peace activism" was little more to him than a temporary hobby to pass the time and something that he could write songs about.

I was trying to make a serious point and I think I'm entitled to my own opinion. If you want to prove me wrong with good arguments, please be my guest. But don't be an ass, please.
now see here mr Joost, i tried to clean this up the first time. if you seriously understood what plain vanilla peace activism was about, i wouldn't have to qualify anything i said, whether or not you do consider it to be reasonable or unreasonable. so just ignore what i have to say, i just happen to believe this to be truth.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Joost on January 30, 2012, 09:45:27 AM
so just ignore what i have to say

Fine.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on February 01, 2012, 07:14:41 PM
yeah but it coming up with a melody thats the hard bit (especially one that people will remember and sing)  ???

now come on Todd, this is one of THE most positive songs ever written, of course its a dream but just imagine....no countries etc etc
you change the lyrics, you change the structure of the song, you change its meaning and you corrupt its value, and in this case the message of love and world peace and harmony. i have to agree with mr Joost, this is kind of stupid. not to mention shallow and insincere.
 ;yes
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on February 01, 2012, 10:13:36 PM
I actually think it was a staged publicity stunt......a way of getting his name known to people all over the world who previously had never heard of him

I guess it worked. He is now a lot more famous than he was before he did it.

My take on this is, if you respect an artists work, you dont fiddle with it.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Nada Surf on February 05, 2012, 05:34:05 PM
So Nimrod...
what about all the artist's work the Beatles "fiddled" with in the early 60s?
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: RubberSol on July 01, 2012, 12:41:03 AM
If you cover a song you should not change the lyrics first of all. Second, Cee Lo is basically giving a big middle finger to John's opinion of the subject. In my opinion, you shouldn't cover a song if you don't believe in the message it was meant to convey.
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on July 01, 2012, 04:30:11 AM
(http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/awjeez.jpg)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on July 01, 2012, 08:45:09 AM
 ha2ha

ignore him rubbersol he's grumpy today  ha2ha
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: tkitna on July 01, 2012, 10:40:11 AM
I just read through the entire thread. Some of it was pretty heated. Glad i'm not an instigator.  8)
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: Bobber on July 02, 2012, 08:12:45 AM
Glad i'm not an instigator.  8)

LOL!
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: nimrod on July 02, 2012, 11:15:23 PM
I just read through the entire thread. Some of it was pretty heated. Glad i'm not an instigator.  8)

its all good fun, were all different...........................................................................................(than Todd) ha2ha
Title: Re: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message
Post by: 7 of 13 on July 07, 2012, 11:26:29 PM
(http://theaxemen.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ayecarumbaoj3.jpg)