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[Hello Goodbye]

I was trying to highlight the oft quoted line (which you seemed to be agreeing with) that The Rolling Stones had a tougher, more raw and uncompromising sound/image than the early Beatles, and I've never seen it that way myself.

But that's exactly how we perceived The Rolling Stones to be in 1964 (and please note I said perceived).  While The Beatles were singing "please please me," The Rolling Stones were singing "girly action" and "trying to make some girl."

We knew nothing of The Savage Beatles of the early 60s.  Brian Epstein saw to that.

[Mr Mustard]

But that's exactly how we perceived The Rolling Stones to be in 1964 (and please note I said perceived).  While The Beatles were singing "please please me," The Rolling Stones were singing "girly action" and "trying to make some girl."

We knew nothing of The Savage Beatles of the early 60s.  Brian Epstein saw to that.

Fair comment, at the time (in terms of "image") it was all down to careful marketing (for BOTH groups, in opposite directions) ... but let's not forget whilst The Beatles were sending everyone into a frenzy with Can't Buy Me Love and Twist And Shout, The Stones were sending everyone to sleep with Little Red Rooster 

[nimrod]

I think its fair to say the Beatles were marketed as cuddly moptops and the Stones as bad boys.

[AppleScruffy96]

I think its fair to say the Beatles were marketed as cuddly moptops and the Stones as bad boys.

Cuddly moptops!!! 

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

One thing I do remember is my friend claiming that one of the tracks (can't remember which one I'm afraid) was the first pop song to feature a prison inmate contacting his love on the outside and me trying to argue that "Wait" from Rubber Soul was that same scenario but two years earlier!

The song you're talking about is "Care Of Cell 44", the opening track of Odessey And Oracle and written by Rod Argent. The lyrics are letter of man who is waiting for his girl; she's in prison and is soon going to be released. A very rare theme, really! I love the tune with its wild harmonies, and it reminds a bit me to "Wouldn't It Be Nice" from Pet Sounds.

The Zombies - Care of Cell 44

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

I can extend my list including all my favourite groups from the 1960's:

1. The Beatles P: 10 - S: 10 - TA: 9 - Average: 9.67
2. The Rolling Stones P: 9 - S: 9 - TA: 9 - Average: 9.00
2. The Who P: 8 - S: 9 - TA: 10 - Average: 9.00
4. The Beach Boys P: 9 - S: 9 - TA: 7 - Average: 8.33
4. The Byrds P: 8 - S: 9 - TA: 8 - Average: 8.33
4. Cream P: 7 - S: 8 - TA: 10 - Average: 8.33
7. The Kinks P: 7 - S: 9 - TA: 8 - Average: 8.00
7. Jefferson Airplane P: 7 - S: 8 - TA: 9 - Average: 8.00
9. The Zombies P: 7 - S: 8 - TA: 8 - Average: 7.67
9. The Doors P: 8 - S: 8 - TA: 7 - Average: 7.67
9. Buffalo Springfield P: 7 - S: 8 - TA: 8 - Average: 7.67
12. The Yardbirds P: 7 - S: 6 - TA: 9 - Average: 7.33
12. Love P: 6 - S: 8 - TA: 8 - Average: 7.33
12. The Hollies P: 8 - S: 7 - TA: 7 - Average: 7.33
12. Simon & Garfunkel P: 8 - S: 8 - TA: 6 - Average: 7.33
16. The Animals P: 7 - S: 6 - TA: 7 - Average: 6.67

I know I'm missing some biggies, but that's my list.

[tkitna]

There were some nice wispy harmonies on it as I recall, but it was all a bit "samey" for me, I'd get a bit bored after the fourth or fifth track as I remember.

I look at it as just the opposite. I think the album bounces all over the place.

I think to refer to it as "One of the greatest albums ever" is going way over the top, but that's just my opinion, it's good that you have an album you're so fond of 

Ehh, I think its pretty evident that I have strange taste in music anyways.

Here's one of my favorite tunes ever.

the zombies breif candles

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

"Brief Candles" is one of my favourite songs too. Chris White wrote several great tunes for that album.

[nimrod]

Argent were (later) a terrific prog-rock ensemble created by his namesake Rod Argent, following the disbanding of his former group 'The Zombies' ......It was Rod's wish to create music that was both musically challenging and accessible, combining strong, focused song-writing with a flair for talented playing.

'Odessey and Oracle' was a typical 'Psych' album of the times, a bit like Mr Fantasy by Traffic and Piper by Floyd.

[tkitna]

'Odessey and Oracle' was a typical 'Psych' album of the times, a bit like Mr Fantasy by Traffic and Piper by Floyd.

See, I think it had small traces of psych in some places, but it was really nothing more than a pop album in my opinion.

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

'Odessey and Oracle' was a typical 'Psych' album of the times, a bit like Mr Fantasy by Traffic and Piper by Floyd.

I would say that Odessey And Oracle is a baroque pop album, slightly psychedelic. I dig those two albums you mentioned, but I'm my opinion there's no comparison to the Zombies' masterpiece, either in terms of style or quality. I think that Odessey is in the same league as Pet Sounds and Forever Changes.

[tkitna]

I think that Odessey is in the same league as Pet Sounds and Forever Changes.

Same here

[nimrod]

Same here

Ha Ha and I think this is better than all of them;

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

Ha Ha and I think this is better than all of them;

Lengendary for prog rock fans. But we shouldn't compare those records, they belong to different worlds even though they are from the same time.

[tkitna]

I struggle with King Crimson. I need to relisten to them soon as I told Mr. M that I would. Too weird to me on first listens.

[nimrod]

Lengendary for prog rock fans. But we shouldn't compare those records, they belong to different worlds even though they are from the same time.

Hi disagree Hombre, its all rock music ie people with long hair and guitars keyboards and drums, its not jazz, its not blues or classical or folk....... its rock. Its only called prog rock because someone put a label on it.

Listen to this, it couldve been on any of those albums

King Crimson - I Talk to the Wind

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

Good point, "I Talk To The Wind" is a nice ballad that could have been in any rock/pop album of the 60's. Same goes for "Moonchild", at least the first part. But most of the album is not as convencional, with long instrumental parts instead of proper songs; in fact the album only had 5 songs (even though they were divided in different themes). I really like the album, especially "21st Century Schizoid Man", but I wouldn't say that it belongs to the same league of Odessey And Oracle, Pet Sounds or Forever Changes.

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

The following list of British Invasion bands is made on base of ratings given by music reviewer George Starostin (http://starling.rinet.ru/music/index.htm). He used different parameters than me: Listenability (L), Resonance (R), Originality (O), Adequacy (A), and Diversity (D).

1. The Beatles L: 5+/5 - R: 5/5 - O: 5/5 - A: 5/5 - D: 5/5 - Overall: 5.0+
2. The Rolling Stones L: 5+/5 - R: 5/5 - O: 4/5 - A: 5/5 - D: 5/5 - Overall: 4.8+
2. The Who L: 5/5 - R: 5/5 - O: 5+/5 - A: 4/5 - D: 5/5 - Overall: 4.8+
4. The Kinks L: 5/5 - R: 4/5 - O: 4/5 - A: 4/5 - D: 5/5 - Overall: 4.4
5. The Zombies L: 5/5 - R: 4/5 - O: 3/5 - A: 3/5 - D: 2/5 - Overall: 3.4
6. The Yardbirds L: 3/5 - R: 2/5 - O: 4/5 - A: 3/5 - D: 3/5 - Overall: 3.0
6. The Animals L: 4/5 - R: 4/5 - O: 2/5 - A: 3/5 - D: 2/5 - Overall: 3.0
8. The Hollies L: 4/5 - R: 3/5 - O: 1/5 - A: 4/5 - D: 2/5 - Overall: 2.8
9. The Pretty Things L: 3/5 - R: 2/5 - O: 1/5 - A: 3/5 - D: 3/5 - Overall: 2.4
10. The Dave Clark Five L: 2/5 - R: 1/5 - O: 0/5 - A: 3/5 - D: 1/5 - Overall: 1.4

The order is pretty similar to my list:

1. The Beatles P: 10 - S: 10 - TA: 9 - Average: 9.67
2. The Rolling Stones P: 9 - S: 9 - TA: 9 - Average: 9.00
2. The Who P: 8 - S: 9 - TA: 10 - Average: 9.00
4. The Kinks P: 7 - S: 9 - TA: 8 - Average: 8.00
5. The Zombies P: 7 - S: 8 - TA: 8 - Average: 7.67
6. The Yardbirds P: 7 - S: 6 - TA: 9 - Average: 7.33
6. The Hollies P: 8 - S: 7 - TA: 7 - Average: 7.33
8. The Animals P: 7 - S: 6 - TA: 7 - Average: 6.67

[tkitna]

I'm surprised to see the Pretty Things on that list. I'm the biggest Pretty Things fan I know of and they really didnt dent the US at all.

[Hombre_de_ningun_lugar]

I'm surprised to see the Pretty Things on that list. I'm the biggest Pretty Things fan I know of and they really didnt dent the US at all.

Actually I included the Pretty Things in the list just to complete it, but it's true that they shouldn't be considered as part of the invasion since they didn't invade.

Here you can read the guy's reviews of their albums:

http://starling.rinet.ru/music/pretty.htm