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Beatles forums => Albums => Topic started by: fendertele on September 05, 2007, 11:39:59 AM

Title: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: fendertele on September 05, 2007, 11:39:59 AM
a lot of his songs sound very ray davies like, songs like polythene pam and mean mr mustard?
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 05, 2007, 11:48:10 PM
Although I'm a Beatles freak, don't get me started on the Kinks---Ray & Dave are BELOVED by me too. But I never made that comparison to Abbey Road. Brilliant observation. Ray was/and still is I suppose, the king of the 3 minute rock opera (w/ Pete Townshend of course claiming the longer form)but now that u mention it, Side 2 of Abbey R. has all those short ditties (or snippets) that would make any Kinks fan salivate...(any one of which could've found it's way onto the Kinks Kronikles compilation w/ ease..)
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: BlueMeanie on September 06, 2007, 12:06:56 AM
I'm not sure about this. Looks like tomorrow is going to be a Kinks day :)

Had the chance to see Ray a couple of years ago. Bloody brilliant. What a showman!
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 06, 2007, 12:59:59 AM
not to mention Dave "Death of a Clown" Davies, the most UNDER-rated lead guitarist in rock!

(but PLEASE STOP ME--THIS IS A BEATLES SITE--I DONT WANNA BE UNFAITHFUL TO THE FAB)   :D
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: fendertele on September 06, 2007, 05:21:37 AM
funny you should mention death of a clown as that is one of the songs that comes to mind when i think of a few of lennons tracks on abbey road, from the lyrics to the chord changes it sounds very kinksy to me and then his voice sounds very different from his usual voice, slight london twang.


yeah i love the kinks theres even some days when :o i prefer them to the Beatles but i prefer the Beatles the other 300 days, he is a lyrical genius and there songs are so refreshing, i definitely think they sit second in my books.

On a cold and frosty morning, Wipe my eyes and stop me yawning.
And my feet are nearly frozen,Boil the tea and put some toast on.

 ;D
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: The End on September 07, 2007, 02:14:38 PM
Quote from: 829
not to mention Dave "Death of a Clown" Davies, the most UNDER-rated lead guitarist in rock!

(but PLEASE STOP ME--THIS IS A BEATLES SITE--I DONT WANNA BE UNFAITHFUL TO THE FAB)   :D

I would be MORE than happy to have a chat about The Kinks in the "other artists" forum (just playing Village Green as we speak!!!) ;D
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 07, 2007, 08:08:41 PM
Quote from: 360

I would be MORE than happy to have a chat about The Kinks in the "other artists" forum (just playing Village Green as we speak!!!) ;D

..or "Arthur" ;)

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: The End on September 07, 2007, 11:04:08 PM
Quote from: 829

..or "Arthur" ;)


Young And Innocent Days nearly brings me to tears every time I hear it!
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 07, 2007, 11:19:39 PM
..and whenever i play my "Everybody's In Show Biz" cd (I had the vinyl of it back in 72) I can ONLY smile..
The Kinks always made me happy as hell...even though I know Ray's lyrics are often about the hard life of the working class, his whimsy & compassion always got to me. (I can almost hear "Celluloid Heroes" in my head right now !!..I'm not kidding--and I'm no where near my stereo at the moment!!)

but like I said, DONT START ME UP ABOUT THE KINKS--this is our BELOVED BEATLES site !!!!! :o

signed,

me--a muswell hillbilly in the USA
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: BlueMeanie on September 07, 2007, 11:28:12 PM
Quote from: 360

Young And Innocent Days nearly brings me to tears every time I hear it!

You softie!
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: tkitna on September 08, 2007, 12:29:55 AM
I dont think John was to inspired by anything during Abbey Road.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 08, 2007, 12:50:39 AM
Quote from: 373
I dont think John was to inspired by anything during Abbey Road.


Do you call "Come Together", "She's So Heavy"...AND his, Paul and George's PERFECT vocals on "Because" not being inspired by much  ??
(not to mention his contributions to Side II's "medley" ??) Maybe you were listening to a different Abbey Road than I did... )(*shrugs*) (it was the "Get Back" sessions in EARLY '69 that he and the others were so famously discontented(subsequently to be renamed Let It Be) but by Spring of that same year they were fully enjoying the entire recording of Abbey Road together--it was like "old times".  John didnt get his wanderlust again until AFTER A.R. was complete. By September '69 he issued his "walking papers" in earnest. To say he was uninspired during the A. R. sessions is a myth.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: The End on September 08, 2007, 01:08:40 AM
Quote from: 829
..and whenever i play my "Everybody's In Show Biz" cd (I had the vinyl of it back in 72) I can ONLY smile..
The Kinks always made me happy as hell...even though I know Ray's lyrics are often about the hard life of the working class, his whimsy & compassion always got to me. (I can almost hear "Celluloid Heroes" in my head right now !!..I'm not kidding--and I'm no where near my stereo at the moment!!)

but like I said, DONT START ME UP ABOUT THE KINKS--this is our BELOVED BEATLES site !!!!! :o

signed,

me--a muswell hillbilly in the USA


Started a KINKS thread here: http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/b-othermusic/m-1189213652/ ;D
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 08, 2007, 01:27:20 AM
thx...checking THAT out next time I'm online in here
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: tkitna on September 08, 2007, 01:37:22 AM
Quote from: 829


Do you call "Come Together", "She's So Heavy"...AND his, Paul and George's PERFECT vocals on "Because" not being inspired by much  ??

Lets see, a song spouting out needless drivel with no subject matter that plays off of being the poorest copy of 'I Am The Walrus' ever (Come Together), a song that is so repetitve that you have already listened to it after a minute into it (I Want You,,,,and thank god its almost 8 minutes long,,,sheesh), and a freaking song that I would bet my life on that Paul put together (Because). No not inspired at all.
(By the way,,,Sun King sucks too, but i do like the snippets of Polythene Pam and Mean Mr. Mustard. Should have been complete tunes.)

Quote
Maybe you were listening to a different Abbey Road than I did... )

No,,,it was the same.

Quote
(it was the "Get Back" sessions in EARLY '69 that he and the others were so famously discontented(subsequently to be renamed Let It Be) but by Spring of that same year they were fully enjoying the entire recording of Abbey Road together--it was like "old times".  John didnt get his wanderlust again until AFTER A.R. was complete. By September '69 he issued his "walking papers" in earnest. To say he was uninspired during the A. R. sessions is a myth.

Thanks for the history lesson and its no myth. He had crawled so far up into yoko's girl private by this time that its a miracle the album got done at all. Paul pleaded for the band to make this last ditch effort and its not hard to see that he did the majority of the work here. 'Old Times' my ass. John and Paul wasnt spending time by the pool and writing together, they still practicaly wrote their own tunes by themselves on this album (John just loved Maxwells Silver Hammer). Thank goodness they all four knew how much of a failure the Get Back sessions were and they decided to go out with a decent effort. Thanks Paul.

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: BlueMeanie on September 08, 2007, 09:13:27 AM
Quote from: 829
but by Spring of that same year they were fully enjoying the entire recording of Abbey Road together--it was like "old times".  

I don't think so. Apart from basic backing tracks, they were never all in the studio at the same time. In fact John remarked that the best thing to do with Abbey Road was to put all his songs on one side, and Paul's on the other!
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Kevin on September 08, 2007, 10:52:40 AM
Quote from: 758
a lot of his songs sound very ray davies like, songs like polythene pam and mean mr mustard?

But songs about quirky characters were all the rage.  Eleanor Rigby, SF Sorrow, Arnold Lane, Tommy. Maybe just John following a trend?
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 09, 2007, 05:18:26 PM
Quote from: 373




 
Thanks for the history lesson and its no myth.

you're welcome...  anytime. It's all in Paul's autobigraphy. He claims that Let It Be was the real hell, not A.R.

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 09, 2007, 05:28:35 PM
Unless macca was putting a more congenial face on things (which he was apt to do sometimes) I got this info from the horse's mouth not my imagination..
Unless of course John was inwardly sour from from L.I.B. and well into the Abbey Road sessions, the McCartney "spin" on the relative mood of the final record has something to do w/ his (macca's) "mother-hen" attitude of trying to keep the band together, I don't know--but I did read his account only--John wasnt giving many interviews during that period. If JL would've said more at the time, many fans would not hold this apparent misconception about the last LP-maybe Paul wasnt lying...perhaps he just saw things HIS way....possible.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 09, 2007, 05:38:54 PM
Quote from: 185

But songs about quirky characters were all the rage.  Eleanor Rigby, SF Sorrow, Arnold Lane, Tommy. Maybe just John following a trend?

yes, but it never occurs to me the John would follow anyone else's trend--he was so original. It's very possible...but something tells me he would have wrote these ditties irregardless. He always took chances.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Klang on September 12, 2007, 01:27:10 AM

A tiny bit off topic here, perhaps, but 'Tomorrow Never Knows' seems faintly reminiscent of Ray's 'See My Friends', which came out first and was penned while visiting India. My whacky ear at it again, I suppose.

 :)

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 19, 2007, 02:21:15 AM
Quote from: 373





 Paul pleaded for the band to make this last ditch effort and its not hard to see that he did the majority of the work here. 'Old Times' my ass.


I just took another gander at Anthology (DVD) and when they got to the section about the A. R. album, GEORGE f****** MARTIN HIMSELF says "it was a very happy album to make, that's why I'm very fond of it".

Ringo echoed those sentiments in that same Anthology segment.



your contention that John had "crawled so far up Yoko's ******" doesn't prove in the least a lesser degree of inspiration. If anything, a John Lennon in love was an even MORE inspired artist whether he felt constricted at that time in the Beatles or not...OR whether they recorded the songs separately...

Come Together, Polythene Pam, She's So Heavy, Mean Mr. Mustard, his perfect singing parts in Sun King & Because are fervent efforts, not musings of artistic discontent.


if John was so "uninspired" than why did he state several times in subsequent years that "Come Together" was one of his best songs ? The word-play is CLASSIC Lennon. Just because he was planning to depart the band around this time doesnt mean he wanted his final works to sound like crap. His contributions to A. R. is certifiable proof of the contrary. Many ppl would agree.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: tkitna on September 19, 2007, 04:46:52 AM
Quote from: 829

I just took another gander at Anthology (DVD) and when they got to the section about the A. R. album, GEORGE f****** MARTIN HIMSELF says "it was a very happy album to make, that's why I'm very fond of it".

What does that quote have to do with anything? So they were getting along better, that accounts for it being like 'Old Times'? They still werent collaborating on every tune together like they used to. It also doesnt break down who did the majority of the work. Did you ever stop to think that 'very happy' might have meant that John put up with Pauls taskmaster ways just to get this album out? Wasnt this album being made when Allan Klein had f***ed everything up and the Beatles were bitter with each other about legal matters? Remember when Paul didnt sign the contract for Klein, but still participated in the band functions? Again, 'old times' my ass.

Quote
if John was so "uninspired" than why did he state several times in subsequent years that "Come Together" was one of his best songs ?

Because he's weird. This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'. Sorry, not a big fan of 'Come Together'.

Quote
The word-play is CLASSIC Lennon. Just because he was planning to depart the band around this time doesnt mean he wanted his final works to sound like crap. His contributions to A. R. is certifiable proof of the contrary. Many ppl would agree.

I've given you my opinions on his contributions. Although they are my opinions, i'm sure many people would agree with them also.

Its obvious we dont see eye to eye about this and thats fine. I'm just stating that I feel Paul had much more input into this album than the rest of them. It might just be me, but thats how I feel. Also, I didnt mean that John was alright with his working sounding like crap. We know better than that. I just meant that if he was so into it, he could have at least finished most of the tunes instead of just giving us three or so snippets like he did.



Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: tkitna on September 19, 2007, 05:02:10 AM
This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'.

Quote
those are the worst pieces of junk Lennon ever "recorded" (or screamed, moaned his way through)

but that's POST Beatles. John was very melodic and poetic in his Beatle stuff.


Theres were recorded in 68'/69'
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 19, 2007, 05:02:50 AM
Quote from: 373




You:  "Because he's weird."

Me: "subjective...which is ok, but still subjective."



 You: 'This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'."

Me: "I happen to agree w/ that last comment those are the worst pieces of junk Lennon ever "recorded" (or screamed, moaned his way through)

but that's POST Beatles. John was very melodic and poetic in his Beatle stuff."



You:  "I've given you my opinions on his contributions. Although they are my opinions, i'm sure many people would agree with them also."

Me: "true".

You: "Its obvious we dont see eye to eye about this and thats fine. I'm just stating that I feel Paul had much more input into this album than the rest of them. It might just be me, but thats how I feel."




Me: "fair enough. Agree to disagree"

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: tkitna on September 19, 2007, 05:14:42 AM
This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'.

Quote
those are the worst pieces of junk Lennon ever "recorded" (or screamed, moaned his way through)

but that's POST Beatles. John was very melodic and poetic in his Beatle stuff.


These were recorded in 68'/69'
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: fendertele on September 19, 2007, 11:27:02 PM
nobody get the feeling that depending on maccas mood during recording that it would play a big part on the whole general mood ? it seems how controlling or picky or obsessive he was over how it should sound would rub of more on the other guys? more so than anything john and yoko were up to,.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Bobber on September 20, 2007, 06:42:09 AM
If it wasn't for Paul's input, there would never have been an Abbey Road.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: fendertele on September 20, 2007, 08:43:18 AM
yeah i know paul was the driving force, i just meant the atmosphere surrounding the recording, before paul became the unofficial leader of the band there seem to be a little less tension, as john was acknowledge leader but wasnt as bossy or pushy as paul in the later years, so that also gave paul less to get frustrated or bossy about as it wasnt his place and in turn led to a happier george and ringo not getting pushed and told  what to play and how as much ?
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Kevin on September 20, 2007, 11:11:32 AM
Quote from: 758
yeah i know paul was the driving force, i just meant the atmosphere surrounding the recording, before paul became the unofficial leader of the band there seem to be a little less tension, as john was acknowledge leader but wasnt as bossy or pushy as paul in the later years, so that also gave paul less to get frustrated or bossy about as it wasnt his place and in turn led to a happier george and ringo not getting pushed and told  what to play and how as much ?

Sorry - I think that's wrong.
Up to 1966 they were busy touring and had to squeeze in recording dates. They were hardworking and highly motivated. I don't see John as a leader 62-66 anymore than Paul. They went into the studio knowing what sort of music they would make and what (very tight) deadlines they had to meet. If there was less tension then it was because the band had direction and purpose, from themselves, Martin and Epstein. There wasn't less tension then because John was a better leader, but because neither of them were leaders. They didn't need a band member to be one.

By the time of Abbey Road there was a vaccuum. Someone had to step up to the plate and take the lead, and it was Paul. It wasn't that John was "less bossy or pushy." Imagine John had decided to assert himself in 68 - you don't think his poltical vision, his desire to include Yoko, and his general way with people wouldn't have caused some stress and tension amongst that same group of people whose relationships were already fractured?

John never put himself in the position where he had to direct and motivate a bunch of dispirited, bored, antagonistic men. And when he could have he bottled it.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: fendertele on September 20, 2007, 12:49:23 PM
^^^^ good point
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on September 20, 2007, 08:10:20 PM
Quote from: 373
This coming from the same guy who gave us 'Two Virgins', 'Life With The Lions', and 'The Wedding Album'.

 

These were recorded in 68'/69'

you're correct, I meant extraneous-Beatles. Just like "How I Won The War", when John trapsed off to film that during the fab years also--or when Harrison made Wonderwall music as a side project as the first "Zapple" release, the relative artistic "worth" of a given piece is purely in the eye of the beholder.

*ALSO* I must confess John's early releases w/ Yoko I agree, should've never seen the light of day. I think Lennon  assumed the world would accept his experimental period w/ no resistance. They were atrocious works (endless heartbeat sounds plus the incessant "John?".."Yoko?" phrase over and over again.) This kind of "avant garde" should be visual rather than audio IMHO (many ppl were also opposed to his non-musical statements such as "Bagism"- which I thought was a fantastic way to call attention to the carnage in Vietnam. As far as the titles you cited above, I had all these albums at one time, but as I look back, I don't know why I purchased them (probably because of the historical (as opposed to aesthetic value of of the "Two Virgins" cover-which I bought off a friend who "couldn't bare to look  at John's c*ck another second", as he put it back in the early 70's.  But I do believe his true post-Beatle output (especially the first two LPs (P.O.B. and Imagine show great inspiration and brilliance--a brilliance I believe (unlike yourself) was present even in his A.R. material as well---but yes, I take your point, opinions can differ, which is perfectly ok.

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Andy Smith on September 20, 2007, 10:04:49 PM
I really don't think Lennon was inspired by the Kinks.
He never said anything & never really took notice of
much of a lot of the music scene during that time i reckon.
I think he just loved writing silly litttle ditty's!
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: retrocool73 on October 27, 2008, 11:01:12 PM
I can see the comparison with the ditties from the medley - but Come Together, I Want You & Because are a totally different kettle of fish. All 3 are examples of why the Beatles were good for each other and why the split was wrong on so many levels. Would these three songs have been as great if they had been recorded by the Plastic Ono Band or Lennon solo? The arrangement of Because was a George Martin triumph, and Come Together & I Want You work so well because they are so very clearly loving what they are playing and each member added something vital to the mix with both songs representing high points for both Starr as a drummer & Macca as a bassist
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Mairi on November 24, 2008, 09:29:20 PM
I think John was mainly inspired by heroin and Yoko during this period.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: tkitna on November 26, 2008, 04:47:07 AM
Quote from: 218
I think John was mainly inspired by heroin and Yoko during this period.

"Ding Ding Ding",,,,,,,,,we have a winner.

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Bobber on November 26, 2008, 09:27:41 AM
Quote from: 218
I think John was mainly inspired by heroin and Yoko during this period.

And Chuck Berry of course. He almost stole Come Together!  :P
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Bill Harry on November 26, 2008, 04:11:04 PM
John was always trying to tap an altered state of consciousness to achieve creative thinking. It began with beer. Then on to the Vick inhaler strip that Royston Ellis introduced us too. Then on to Captogen and Preludin, then Transcendental Meditation, then LSD, then Primal Scream etc
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: NoNameR on November 26, 2008, 05:42:09 PM
"I really don't think Lennon was inspired by the Kinks.
He never said anything & never really took notice of"

He was supposed to be quite a fan of the Kinks' flop 'Wonderboy' single. The sweet thing is that knowing Lennon was a fan made Ray Davies not care that Wonderboy had been such a flop!
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on November 26, 2008, 07:21:24 PM
Quote from: 1062
John was always trying to tap an altered state of consciousness to achieve creative thinking. It began with beer. Then on to the Vick inhaler strip that Royston Ellis introduced us too. Then on to Captogen and Preludin, then Transcendental Meditation, then LSD, then Primal Scream etc
you forgot the pot bill.....so then mushrooms where never a thing????

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: alexis on November 27, 2008, 04:45:33 AM
Quote from: 1062
John was always trying to tap an altered state of consciousness to achieve creative thinking. It began with beer. Then on to the Vick inhaler strip that Royston Ellis introduced us too. Then on to Captogen and Preludin, then Transcendental Meditation, then LSD, then Primal Scream etc

Precious invaluable observations ... thanks Bill!

BTW - Vick's inhaler strip...?

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: fendertele on November 27, 2008, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: 568

Precious invaluable observations ... thanks Bill!

BTW - Vick's inhaler strip...?


Im gonna sound a little niave here but is vicks inhaler strap something similiar to vicks vapo rub ? only its strapped to youre face and gets you high if breathed in over long periods ?
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on December 30, 2008, 09:35:50 PM
but The Kinks really look like they were The Beatles wannabe band, isn't it? those hairdos etc but their music were truly different. during 1964, The Kinks really were better than The Beatles with their "you really got me" (luv that song) but what they have done after that? ohh sorry I'm off topic like always ;D no I don't think he was inspired by The Kinks. The Kinks were inspired by... by both, John and The Beatles. I don't see any marked sign by The Kinks on "polythene pam" or "mean mr mustard"
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Bobber on December 31, 2008, 10:30:04 AM
Quote from: 1458
... but what they have done after that? .

Oh dear.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: fendertele on December 31, 2008, 11:35:50 AM
Quote from: 63

Oh dear.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Bobber on December 31, 2008, 11:40:03 AM
Quote from: 758

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

I didn't mean to make a joke.  :)
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Geoff on December 31, 2008, 12:14:54 PM
Quote from: 1458
but what they have done after that?

Well, let's see, there was.... Never mind; have it your way.  ;D

Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on December 31, 2008, 02:21:58 PM
yeah whatsoever  :P
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Out Of Me Head on March 27, 2009, 10:30:48 PM
Around the time of Abbey Road Lennon said he wasnt interested in "writing about council estates and the provinces", Ray Davies did little else.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: adamzero on March 28, 2009, 04:35:39 AM
I think the Kinks influence was pretty profound--especially in the Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Pepper era (with some Syd Barrett influencing songs like "Lucy in the Sky" and "Being for the Benefit of Mr Kite"--the eccentric British irony is palpable in "I'm Only Sleeping" and "Rain"--not to mention modern city slice-of-life portraits which Ray developed on "Face to Face" and "Something New".  I also see Syd Barrett as a huge influence (as much as Dylan) on John's side-trip into psychedelia (which he eschewed by the time of his solo career).   Paul must have felt Ray's influence too in "Lovely Rita" and "When I'm 64"--both very English in their humor.  

Ray was a force to be reckoned with.  
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Pegasus on May 08, 2009, 05:46:42 PM
It's SO EASY to have hindsight of course....(Like The Titanic slowing down a bit...)

After the Fractured but Brilliant "White Album" they SHOULD have taken a GOOD REST from each other...and gone off to do their respective "Own things"....that way they COULD have, er, "Come Together" again later...when each was ready to work as "The Beatles" again.... in hindsight !

Instead they in retrospect unwisely  DIVED straight  into the Abortive "Get Back" project....(Later aka "Le it Be")....and effectively the strain heightened previously controlled longtime simmering issues....plus Yoko's quiet ever-presence...that was DEAFENING...and thus they  "Broke up" in front of the rolling cameras..

The decision was then made  to go on on a HIGH (thanks Lads !) ....EACH Knew "Abbey Road" was the Band's Swansong....it even actually  closes with: "The End" - & NOT originally "Her Majesty"....which was later put on the "run out groove" section prior to issue.

John was influenced.... by Chuck Berry in bringing in "Old Flat Top" from "You Can't Catch Me" for "Come Together"...Later John did an "off the cuff" playout version of "Ya Ya" (with young Julian on Drums) on "Walls and Bridges" to pay off royalties to the Copyrite owners of that AND the Berry song...as a settlement when they objected to use of Chuck's character old "Flatty"  !

George MUST have heard James Taylor's APPLE recording: "Something in The Way She Moves"....one Hell of a Co-incidence if not.....the song WAS original tho'....and at long last...George  got the SINGLE off a Beatles album..

Overall of course  they were original....indeed  10c.c.'s 1972 hit "Oh Donna" owes a good bit to Paul's "Oh Darling"...yes ?

Badfinger's excellent 1975 song "Timeless"....clearly owes a debt to  John's "She's So Heavy" riff excercise...

They WERE Writing independantly by this stage tho'....most of the side two material - the collage - consisted of unfinished song ideas begun in India in 1968 - these never were completed as indvidual songs ....but flowed together quite magnificently....

There is a poignant moment in the 1971 Film "Imagine" where a (That time a "Friendly fan"....unlike in 1980  :() gate- crashes John's home....just to say how MUCH his song "Carry That Weight" touched his soul and he could identify with it........

John answers; "...It was PAUL who wrote that...!"  (- Er...WRONG  Mr. Fan !!  ;D)
 
Paul's "She Came in Through The Bathroom Window"...refers to a 1965 incident at a Moody Blues party that the "in Pop crowd" incl The Fab Four  all attended....when a persistant Girl fan shimmied up the drainpipe....got in via the open bathroom window...and climbed into Moodie Ray Thomas' bed...!

Paul also refers to a USA Yellow Cab driver he & Linda met in "You Never Give Me Your Money"

George & Eric Clapton actually co-wrote "Here Comes The Sun" & Cream's "Badge" together on a boosy sunny afternoon in Eric's garden...Eric later refused a songwriting credit on the Beatle song...while George duly played rhythm guitar as "L'Angelo Mysterioso" on the Cream song...of which George was writing the Lyrics on a pice of paper....he put BRIDGE for the instrumental portion....Clapton looking at it upside down,  from across the table, asked George  Why he put "BADGE" in the middle of the lyrics....hence the song's name !

George co-wrote "Octopus' Garden" with Ringo...knocking it into shape instrumentally ...again NOT taking a songwriting credit.

The "Abbey Road" album saw the Fab Four putting aside their personal frictions to "Finsh on a High"....knowing it was the Finale...thus purely as Musicians they were able to "Gell" as a Unit....performing as a Band - note NO totally  "Solo Paul" or "Solo John" efforts here...(aside from the jokey "Her Majesty") ....the others are always notably  in attendance...often as backing vocalists, several tracks feature close Lennon-McCartney-Harrison vocal harmonies......certainly as instrumentalists....thus there is a sense of Band unity often absent on the preceeding few Beatles albums....note how on "the End" George, John, & Paul take alternating guitar solos....then Ringo gets a rare drumming solo....it's their Encore number.

In a way the Belated issue of "Let it Be" - with the ONE final Beatles track...cut only by George, Paul, & Ringo ("I Me Mine") ....has obscured the True Importance of "Abbey Road" as the Beatles Swansong....
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Pegasus on May 08, 2009, 06:09:11 PM
One thing I would add re "Sgt Pepper..."

Syd Barrett did NOT influence songs on "Sgt Pepper" like "Lucy in the Sky..." etc

Pink Floyd (Barrett-Waters-Wright-Mason) were actually allowed to watch the Beatles Recording "Sgt.Pepper" by earlier Beatles recording Engineer Norman "Hurricane" Smith who was Pink Floyd's Producer...Floyd were then recent signings to EMI put on their Columbia label.

Pink Floyd then used some of the Instruments The Beatles had used on "Sgt.Pepper" on their debut album "Piper At The Gates of Dawn"

Listen to Pink Floyd's "Paintbox" (1969), the tinkling piano conclusion echoes the fadeout on "Magical Mystery Tour"...as later the guitar riff on "Lunatic is on The Grass" from D.S.O.T.M. (1973) echoes the guitar  riff on "Dear Prudence" (1968)....as also does 10.c.c.'s guitar intro to "Feel The Benefit" on "Deceptive Bends" later in 1978...

I'm not sure it is accurate to say Syd Barrett influenced John Lennon in 1967...more likely the other way round going by "Tomorrow Never Knows" from 1966...and "Strawberry Fields Forever" (1967) - indeed Paul's "Penny Lane" is equally surreal....yes ?

John Lennon being introduced to the Mellotron by old friend Mike Pinder of The Moody Blues...(Manfred Mann also played on earlier on "Semi Detached Suburban Mr.James" in 1966...)

While re the Psychedelic clothing on "Sgt.Pepper" (1967 - Parlophone PMC / PCS 7027)....this was in fact influenced by the cover Art work of The Hollies earlier album "Evolution" (1967 - Parlophone PMC / PCS 7022) - The Beatles then using the SAME Artists Simon & Marijke (aka "The Fool")  for their psychedelic clothing  for Peter Blake's famous setting "Sgt.Pepper" cover  - as then did likewise Jimi Hendrix...using that Hollies album cover  photographer Karl Ferris... for the USA cover of his album "Are You Experienced ?"
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 10, 2009, 01:58:40 PM
edric DID NOT help with here comes the sun...george wrote it while strolling around erics garden....with one of eric acoustic guitars...george was waiting for eric to come home...
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Pegasus on May 10, 2009, 06:48:43 PM
that's strange as I heard George Harrison himself actually say that  Eric DID write it with him in a Radio One interview back in the Seventies....and Eric REFUSED then to then take a label credit

So is George a Liar...?  
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: harihead on May 10, 2009, 08:00:16 PM
Eric might have contributed something-- I never heard this interview, so I can't comment on what George might have been thinking. It's common for musicians to contribute to each other's work and in those days, you couldn't easily share credit across labels (at least that was true in Eric and George's case). So musicians tended to reciprocate rather than openly acknowledge credit. I think it's going a bit far to say Eric "co-wrote" it with him, particularly as Eric was never a prolific songwriter. His contribution was probably on the order of Ringo contributing the "swans" line to "Badge".

Do you have a link for this interview? The 70s were a while ago. I'm enjoying your contributions to the forum, but that's a long time to remember exactly what George said. He was generally pretty open about sharing credit.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I have often shaken my head at the Beatles' fading memories. I have read interviews where John and Paul say the most ridiculous things-- like they met when they were 17 or equally silly mistakes. Of course they should know what year they wrote or released a song-- but they don't! They get it wrong an amazing number of times.

That said, I believe it was Hunter Davies (correct me?) who said that George had the best memory among the Beatles. (Don't worry; he gets lots of things wrong that we fans can correct him on, but he was less wrong on average than John and Paul.)
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on May 11, 2009, 07:11:16 PM
Quote from: 551
This is a bit of a tangent, but I have often shaken my head at the Beatles' fading memories. I have read interviews where John and Paul say the most ridiculous things-- like they met when they were 17 or equally silly mistakes. Of course they should know what year they wrote or released a song-- but they don't! They get it wrong an amazing number of times.

That said, I believe it was Hunter Davies (correct me?) who said that George had the best memory among the Beatles. (Don't worry; he gets lots of things wrong that we fans can correct him on, but he was less wrong on average than John and Paul.)

What about this Paul McCartney 1984 interview? He said:

"I remember one time when we were making Help! in Austria. We'd been out skiing all day for the film and so we were all tired. I usually shared a room with George. But on this particular occasion, I was in with John. We were taking our huge skiing boots off and getting ready for the evening and stuff, and we had one of our cassettes. It was one of the albums, probably Revolver or Rubber Soul--I'm a bit hazy about which one. It may have been the one that had my song Here, There and Everywhere. There were three of my songs and three of John's songs on the side we were listening to. And for the first time ever, he just tossed it off, without saying anything definite, "Oh, I probably like your songs better than mine." And that was it! That was the height of praise I ever got off him.  Mumbles "I probably like your songs better than mine." Whoops! There was no one looking, so he could say it."

They were listening to Revolver or Rubber Soul while filming Help!? Maybe Paul's double (who replaced him after his death) wasn't very aware of such details. ;D
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Bobber on May 11, 2009, 07:18:52 PM
Sure. They always worked a year in advance.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 11, 2009, 10:55:40 PM
i woul;d love to hear this interview as well....i will seek one when he claims he wrote in erics garden while waiting for him...and the extent of georges part on badge was merely a misread title by eric and georges' harmony and guitar parts.....i think people give slow hand too much credit sometimes...i remember him promoting himself in with the in crowds during the 60s...trying to fit in where he didn't belong...what was really funny was that erics new band in the late 60s was gonna be mitch mitchell and noel redding but they went to a hendrix show and were so blown away they joined jimis band instead... ;D i do not believe edric had a number one album that year either... ;)
http://justanotherwillyloman.blogspot.com/2009/03/happy-spring-here-comes-sun.html
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 11, 2009, 11:06:22 PM
Here Comes The Sun
"Here Comes the Sun" is a song by George Harrison from The Beatles' 1969 album Abbey Road.
The song, one of Harrison's best-known Beatles contributions alongside "Something", had its genesis with a songwriting collaboration between Harrison and close friend Eric Clapton called "Badge," recorded by Clapton's group Cream, and featuring an arpeggiated guitar riff that is similar to the one that forms the bridge of "Here Comes the Sun". 1969 was a difficult year for Harrison: he was arrested for marijuana possession, he had his tonsils removed, and he had temporarily quit the band. The song was written while Harrison was away from all of these troubles.

Harrison stated in The Beatles Anthology:


"Here Comes The Sun was written at the time when Apple was getting like school, where we had to go and be businessmen: 'Sign this' and 'sign that'. Anyway, it seems as if winter in England goes on forever, by the time spring comes you really deserve it. So one day I decided I was going to sag off Apple and I went over to Eric Clapton's house. The relief of not having to go see all those dopey accountants was wonderful, and I walked around the garden with one of Eric's acoustic guitars and wrote Here Comes The Sun".

George Harrison: Acoustic Guitar, Vocals, Moog Synthesizer, Hammond Organ and Handclaps
Paul McCartney: Bass, Backing Vocals and Handclaps
Ringo Starr: Drums and Handclaps
Orchestration By George Martin
     it should be noted that john lennon DID NOT PLAY ON THE SONG.....
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: harihead on May 12, 2009, 04:44:10 AM
Quote from: 1997
They were listening to Revolver or Rubber Soul while filming Help!? Maybe Paul's double (who replaced him after his death) wasn't very aware of such details. ;D
LOL-- perfect! That is exactly what I meant, Hombre. Lovely find.


Quote from: 63
Sure. They always worked a year in advance.
This explains a great deal. That's why they seemed so brilliant-- they always had the benefit of hindsight.


PC31, thanks for the references!
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 13, 2009, 01:29:46 AM
Quote from: 2092
that's strange as I heard George Harrison himself actually say that  Eric DID write it with him in a Radio One interview back in the Seventies....and Eric REFUSED then to then take a label credit

So is George a Liar...?  
either george or you!!!
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: tkitna on May 13, 2009, 06:42:03 AM
Quote from: 284
either george or you!!!


(http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/lol8.gif)
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: glass onion on May 13, 2009, 09:38:11 AM
not sure if paul could have been inspired by ray davies in his writing of 'when i'm 64'-didnt paul write that in about 1961-62?then kept it back until the year his dad turned 64?
also,the reason the beatles went ahead 'straight away'after the white album(actually a couple of months at least)with the get back project-paul really thought that the band were coming to an end anyway.so perhaps he could get them cajoled and 'up' again with a fresh new 'live' project?we all know how it ended up,but still a good idea?i think so.it just goes to show how much rot had actually set in already.for anyone who has not read the book,purchase'get back;the beatles' let it be disaster'by doug sulphy.absolutely vital if you are interested in this phase of the beatles career.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Kevin on May 13, 2009, 04:11:52 PM
Quote from: 1594
not sure if paul could have been inspired by ray davies in his writing of 'when i'm 64'-didnt paul write that in about 1961-62?then kept it back until the year his dad turned 64?

Again I thought it was more to do with production/arrangement. Paul was playing WI64 early on, but was it arranged in that "flapper" way? It's easy to imagine it as a straight song, Paul hearing The kinks and thinking that arrangement would suit, so it's possible, regardless of the songs age. George Martin had produced acts that used that twenties sound before the Beatles.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: glass onion on May 13, 2009, 07:42:18 PM
ah,good point kevin.could be mate,could be.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 18, 2009, 07:49:37 PM
quIzJUBPv14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quIzJUBPv14)not the hollies only carl...
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: adamzero on May 18, 2009, 10:26:54 PM
D'oh!  I should have remembered that Paul wrote "64" long before Sgt. Pepper or Ray Davies' rise to fame.   But thanks to Kevin for seeing a possible connection.  

I always wondered if Paul had the whole thing written (like "the Vera, Chuck and Dave" thing) when he was 15 years old.  

I do think that John was very susceptible to influences (Dylan, Chuck Berry, etc.).  I think he wrote "I Am the Walrus" just to write a Dylan song (better than Dylan).  And once he had achieved that, he moved on.  I wonder who influenced his minimalist style of POB (Lou Reed, Velvets?)--that is, beside Yoko.  
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: adamzero on May 18, 2009, 10:38:54 PM
Lo and behold: http://www.comcast.net/music/blindedbythehype/6892/
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Pegasus on May 19, 2009, 08:31:31 AM
The songwriting collaboration between George Harrison & Eric Clapton on "Badge" DIRECTLY influenced and played a part in George composing  "Here Comes The Sun"....Harrison even made a NOTE to himself re including a bridge section chord sequence based directly from their song "Badge"  this when composing the Beatles song...

Go to Wikipedia, type in "Here Comes The Sun", it says:
Quote;
"The song, one of Harrison's best known Beatles contributions alongside "Something", ORIGINATED  from a Songwriting Collaboration between Harrison and close friend ERIC CLAPTON called "Badge"....it features a similar  Arpeggiated Guitar Riff on the Bridge section..."

the Link is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/here_comes_the_sun

...or just go into wikipedia and type in the song's title...

During the writing of the song Harrison actually made a note to himself to BASE the Bridge of "Here Comes The Sun" directly on the Bridge from their co-written song "Badge"

check this Link:

http://www.answers.com/topic/here-comes-the-sun-vocal-classical-work

Further acknowledgement that Eric Clapton duly collaborated on "Here Comes The Sun" via "Badge"  can be found using this Link:

http:// www.musicouch.com/Genres/Rock/The-Beatles-George-Harrison-The-Silent-Beatle.543061

(Scroll down to "Here Comes the Sun" by the "Abbey Road" album cover photo)

with further mention of the Genesis of "Here Comes The Sun" at this Link:

 http://thebeatlescd.com/herecomesthesun.html

while on an Eric Clapton websites further mention is made on this link:

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Eric_Clapton

On "Badge" George Harrison plays an Electric guitar "Chiming bell" style intro to the bridge section...written by George & Eric Clapton...that George made a note to himself of to RE-UTILISE in the intro to the bridge section of "Here Comes The Sun"....played on an Acoustic guitar by George just prior to the line: "Sun Sun Sun here it Comes"

If you listen to the two songs these gutair lines ARE very similar...

This ties in with what I heard George Harrison say in a 1976 Radio interview re how after he had come up with the main song walking around Eric's garden and watching the sun come up....Clapton & he then finalised the guitar parts together on their Acoustics....and Harrison later completed the song himself while on Holiday in Sardinia.

Eric Clapton COULD...if he had wanted to...have thus Legally  argued for a Co-Songwriting credit as George Harrison HAD openly made a NOTE to himself to duly INCLUDE  the Bridge section guitar lines from THEIR Co-written song "Badge" within "Here Comes The Sun".....however, as I remember George saying...WHEN he offered Eric a Co-writing credit...Eric flatly refused !


These various other websites...including Wikipedia ...all acknowledge the clear Link between "Here Comes the Sun" and Cream's song "Badge"....

I am NOT a Liar...and any  Beatle Historian with the most  basic knowledge...OUGHT to KNOW all this....yes ?
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Pegasus on May 19, 2009, 09:04:45 AM
Another point re Hendrix....

it was at the "Bag of Nails" club in London...and Clapton was already in Cream with Jack Bruce & Ginger Baker....whom he joined  from John Mayall's Bluesbreakers....thus John 'Mitch" Mitchell & Noel Redding were NOT about to "join Eric's Band" - as Eric's band was already together....Bruce & Baker from The Graham Bond Organisation were acknowledged as among the top British musicians in Sixties music at that time....Bruce had briefly been Bassist in Manfred Mann...playing on "Pretty Flamingo" (a UK Chart topper in 1966) just before they formed Cream...

at the "Bag of Nails" club Jimi Hendrix came onstage to jam with Cream....& played "Killing Floor" with the band !

Eric Clapton was not "Trying to hang out with the sixties crowd"...he was a famous part of it...Clapton was a well known figure in Britain  from being Guitarist with the Yardbirds from 1964-65 ....and then for the famous  "Bluesbreakers" album by John Mayall (known as the "Beano cover" album)  which had shot to the top three of the Album charts in Britain....Clapton was even given a seperate credit on the Album cover...
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 19, 2009, 11:51:35 AM
there is only one guitar part on here comes the sun...it is for an accoustic...it may have arose ideally from previous endeavours but he didn't have anything directly to do with it,only indirectly....don't quote wiki..i can't accept that as a source..it is fallable..since our discussion or argument..i have been looking everywheres online for something to directly substantiate your claim but have not...the bridge on badge was georges' why shouldn't he be able to use it again?
the idea of collaberation seems to be lost on me because if you only gave a little help,i'd be damned if i'd share credit...music is a personal thing,i have known musicians that have songs that will never be published because they don't meet personal standards while others just put anything they have on the market...it is sad that when people pass on that things they would never have released get put out...based on what passes for collaberation gene vincent should get credit on badfingers baby blue then?
i refuse to discuss clapton much further because i am jaded by a multitude of things..i recently gained more respect for him with the george tribute he was a big part of but i still can't be considered a big fan of his...
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Pegasus on May 19, 2009, 03:51:00 PM
The Bridge on "Badge" was Clapton's and Harrison's not just Harrison's....the song is Published by Dratleaf Music Ltd (Clapton) & Apple (Harrison)

Indeed George Harrison was on more than one occasion prone to "borrowing"..."If I Needed Someone" / "The Bells of Rhymney" (Byrds arrangement)

"Something" / James Taylor's "Something in The Way She Moves".....

and of course most famously: "My Sweet Lord" / "He's So Fine"....

Which George himself acknowledged with his jokey song "This Song"....

In fairness with "Badge" it was partly HIS song....and Look how many people have duly RIPPED OFF The Beatles !

Listen to "Dear Prudence"  guitar lines...then Pink Floyd's "Lunatic is on the Grass" (1973 - DSOTM) ....and 10c.c.'s "Feel The Benefit" guitar intro (on "Deceptive Bends" 1977) - sound familiar ?

While The Jam's riff on "Start"....compared to George's Riff on Taxman" ?

All the Links I listed back up what I said....whatever some may chose to believe...

Eric Clapton was the first "Name musician", as opposed to session men or orchestral players , (i.e. Andy White, Alan Civil etc)  to be specifically invited to play on a Beatles recording in 1968 on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" ....

Eric Clapton, despite then being in a very bad way due to his drug problems, played Guitar for George Harrison at The Concert For Bangla Desh....supported John Lennon at "Live Peace in Toronto" ...and was the main force in helping Dhanni & Olivia Harrison to get everybody on board for "The Concert for George"


Songwriting Credits:
Regarding who takes credit on Songwriting...this varies tremendously....for example How MUCH did Lennon or McCartney contribute to each others songs after 1964...?

Was John Lennon really a co-writer on "Yesterday"...?  - yet his name appears first ...

Did Paul McCartney actually co-write "Give Peace A Chance"....? - per the "credits" YES ! - what do you think ?

How much did Norman Petty contribute to Buddy Holly songs for which he IS credited...?  - Nothing according to Holly's widow !

Mike Love of The Beach Boys won a Court case to INCLUDE his name on umpteen Brian Wilson songs he previously NEVER was credited on....

Matthew Fisher of Procol Harum WON a Court case to INCLUDE his name on "A Whiter Shade of Pale" credits - but then LOST it on Appeal....he lost only for leaving his claim so long...over 40 years....not for not being involved...

Brian Jones NEVER co-wrote Any Rolling Stones sixties songs "Officially" ...it was only ever Jagger-Richard (and the odd Bill Wyman song) ...yet how much do their songs up to 1968  really owe to Jones input....? - and how much has been so obviously "Missing" since 1968 in much of their later works...?

People can miss out on songwriting credits and Royalties for songs they WERE involved in....while others can get credits for songs they had NO input into whatsover...and very often it's a business thing.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Pegasus on May 19, 2009, 04:04:10 PM
A guitar part can of course be BOTH for Acoustic & Electric guitar...not just one or the other...

For example The Shadows 1964 single "Genie With The Llight Brown Lamp" (1964) is an Electric guitar led instrumental....

However The Rare Mono version issued overseas was an Acoustic version of the number....with the Identical guitar melody...played on an Acoustic guitar.

George of course did an alternate Acoustic version of "While my Guitar Gently Weeps" (issued later on the "Anthology"), but preferred the Electric version, as played by Clapton, for release at the time of the "White Album".


while the gentler issued flowing version of "I'll Be Back" in 1964 began life as a Rockier Beat number....similarly "I'm Looking Through You" in 1965....compare the "Rubber Soul" & "Anthology" versions...

....as so too did  "Two Of Us" (Acoustic on the issued album "Let it Be"...but Electric in the film during the Abortive sessions...)
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on May 19, 2009, 05:06:51 PM
I always thought that the guitar on the bridge of "Here Comes The Sun" was very similar to the guitar on "Badge", but I think that's very little evidence to affirm that "Here Comes The Sun" was co-written with Eric Clapton.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 19, 2009, 05:56:41 PM
Quote from: 2092
that's strange as I heard George Harrison himself actually say that  Eric DID write it with him in a Radio One interview back in the Seventies....and Eric REFUSED then to then take a label credit
  
nothing you linked implies this directly...
all i find over and over is "Here Comes the Sun" was written on a beautiful spring day in 1969 when Mr. Harrison left the Beatles business office feeling frustrated by nitty-gritty accounting details.

He walked over to his friend Eric Clapton's house and strolled around the garden with a guitar in hand. The result was one of the most buoyantly joyful of his songs: "Little darling, it's been a long, cold, lonely winter/Little darling it feels like years since it's been here/Here comes the sun. Here comes the sun/And I say . . . It's alright."
look at this link john gets credit and he wasn't even there..http://www.beatleslyrics.eu/here-comes-sun.php
but the link says so,so it must be true!!!not!!! ;D
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 19, 2009, 06:10:41 PM
interesting tidbit on this link...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-474759/How-Eric-Claptons-ex-got-revenge--little-help-George-Harrison.html(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_01/George1MOS_468x312.jpg)
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 19, 2009, 06:40:54 PM
i did learn something new about eric while searching...he was a bastard born out of wedlock...
it is mentioned on a few links...here is one http://www.electricguitarz.com/Eric-Clapton-Biography.html
thanks horseman... ;)
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 19, 2009, 06:46:01 PM
more of how it happened...
http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/here-comes-the-sun/
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 19, 2009, 06:54:14 PM
how about this dark hoarse was georges' nickname b4 the label was created....because of voice difficulties he had...
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 19, 2009, 07:05:35 PM
i found only one link maintaining eric was with george when it was written...a larry king interview....he didn't claim he helped at all tho...http://www.eric-clapton.co.uk/interviewsandarticles/larrykinglive2007.htm
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: HeyJude18 on May 20, 2009, 02:32:54 AM
Quote from: 1997
I always thought that the guitar on the bridge of "Here Comes The Sun" was very similar to the guitar on "Badge", but I think that's very little evidence to affirm that "Here Comes The Sun" was co-written with Eric Clapton.

Clapton says in his book that George was sitting in his backyard in the England country-side just playing his guitar and Here Comes The Sun was written there.
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on May 20, 2009, 02:07:24 PM
Quote from: 1447

Clapton says in his book that George was sitting in his backyard in the England country-side just playing his guitar and Here Comes The Sun was written there.

But did he said that the song was co-written?
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: pc31 on May 20, 2009, 02:16:25 PM
i am starting to like you a hell of alot since you joined this topic... ;D
to me collaberation means some kind of help other than an idea...something more hands on....i still think i read that harrison was alone when he composed this tune...true i am not really a clapton fan so i went to great lengths to disprove peggys assumption...i believe if george said that there would be more than one site quoting that it was so...
thanks nowhereman....please tell the board i didn't bully you into posting what you did... ;)
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on May 20, 2009, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: 284
thanks nowhereman....please tell the board i didn't bully you into posting what you did... ;)

pc31 (or 284) didn't tell me to post what I did. :)

This is what I found about what George said about "Here Comes The Sun":

GEORGE 1969: "It was written on a nice sunny day this early summer, in Eric Clapton's garden. We'd been through hell with business, and on that day I just felt as though I was sagging off, like from school, it was like that. I just didn't come in one day. And just the release of being in the sun and it was just a really nice day. And that song just came. It's a bit like If I Needed Someone, you know, like that basic sort of riff going through it is the same as all those 'Bells Of Rhymney' sort of Byrd-type things."

GEORGE 1980: "...written at a time when Apple was getting like school, where we had to go and be businessmen-- all this signing accounts, and 'sign this' and 'sign that.' Anyway, it seems as if winter in England goes on forever; by the time spring comes you really deserve it. So one day I decided, 'I'm going to sag-off Apple,' and I went over to Eric Clapton's house. I was walking in his garden. The relief of not having to go and see all those dopey accountants was wonderful. And I was walking around the garden with one of Eric's acoustic guitars, and wrote 'Here Comes The Sun.'"
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: on May 20, 2009, 03:56:41 PM
thank you sir you are a gentleman and a scholar.... :)
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: Xose on August 25, 2011, 09:55:49 AM
I round this thread mostly interesting...

BTW:

...and Harrison later completed the song himself while on Holiday in Sardinia...

Does anybody know if photos from those holidays in Sardinia have surfaced??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
Post by: billyshears on August 26, 2011, 07:05:51 AM
The most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard.