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[Kevin]

Just playing devil's advocate, but here's my list of things I wish The Beatles hadn't done:
1) Touring without Ringo. Would The Who or The Stones done the same thing? (more the fool me if they did)  
2) Overdubbing the "live" Shea Stadium film. Naughty.
3) George's Paperback Writer waves in Japan. Embarrasing that they needed to do this.
4) John's Bigger Than Jesus apology. He should have stuck to his guns. Bummer that they never (as far as I know) ever stood up to Epstein.
5) Paul trying to rope in the in-laws as managers. What was he thinking.
6) Revolution lyrics. A bug bear of mine. Musically great song, but lyrically desperately out of step with the times. John's cheeky "in" on the album doesn't compensate.

[fendertele]

Just playing devil's advocate, but here's my list of things I wish The Beatles hadn't done:
1) Touring without Ringo. Would The Who or The Stones done the same thing? (more the fool me if they did)  
2) Overdubbing the "live" Shea Stadium film. Naughty.
3) George's Paperback Writer waves in Japan. Embarrasing that they needed to do this.
4) John's Bigger Than Jesus apology. He should have stuck to his guns. Bummer that they never (as far as I know) ever stood up to Epstein.
5) Paul trying to rope in the in-laws as managers. What was he thinking.
6) Revolution lyrics. A bug bear of mine. Musically great song, but lyrically desperately out of step with the times. John's cheeky "in" on the album doesn't compensate.

1) agreed
2) yeah should have left it warts and all a lot take pleasure in hearing what slight differences they make  be it good or bad.
3) not sure if i agree the waves were t ocover up mistakes or tough parts in advance or just being nice  :-/
4) Yeah it took a slight bashing to his image as the rebel the one who didnt give a &*^% and made it look a bit put on at that moment.
5) Never mix Family with Business when there are other involved there is always going to feel they are being biased in youre favour

[BlueMeanie]

Just playing devil's advocate, but here's my list of things I wish The Beatles hadn't done:
1) Touring without Ringo. Would The Who or The Stones done the same thing? (more the fool me if they did)  
2) Overdubbing the "live" Shea Stadium film. Naughty.
3) George's Paperback Writer waves in Japan. Embarrasing that they needed to do this.
4) John's Bigger Than Jesus apology. He should have stuck to his guns. Bummer that they never (as far as I know) ever stood up to Epstein.
5) Paul trying to rope in the in-laws as managers. What was he thinking.
6) Revolution lyrics. A bug bear of mine. Musically great song, but lyrically desperately out of step with the times. John's cheeky "in" on the album doesn't compensate.

1. I think if it had just been a few gigs in Sweden they'd have cancelled, but Australia would have been more difficult to reschedule. And they were riding the wave, not knowing when it would stop.

4. Definitely. He should have stuck it to 'em.

5. Stupid. Klein may not have been the right choice, but choosing the in-laws probably helped push the other three to want Klein even more.

6. Very naive lyrics. Funny how Lennon is sighted as being the better lyricist.

[aspinall_lover]

Kevin...........agree with you on everything.......and especially number 4.  John should have stuck to his guns, regardless of what happened.  Hey............it was the right statement anyway.  At the time, the youth were more into the Beatles and music than religion as a whole.......go figure..........just my opinion.......

[Geoff]

4) Absolutely. He might have told all those self righteous twits that he was content to be judged by God, but not by them. He was rattled and it was 1966.

5) BlueMeanie's right: Paul pushed the others straight toward Allen Klein, and their resentment at the prospect of having Paul's in laws managing them just might explain why their bullsh*t detectors failed to ever go off in Klein's presence until the Beatles were long gone.

6) I'm going to stick up for "Revolution's" lyrics. I think John was more of a political realist in 1968 than he was three years later. "You say you got a real solution/Well, you know/We'd all love to see the plan" and "But when you want money/for people with minds that hate/All I can tell is brother you have to wait" describes a lot of the hapless, moralizing wanna-be-revolutionary pseuds I knew in college fairly well, and "But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao/You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow," cheap shot though it is, is a pretty good guess at what the source of all that revolutionary fervor really was for a lot of them. On the other hand, "Don't you know it's gonna be all right," unless it's intended ironically, is deluded wishful thinking.

Great idea for a thread.

[Mairi]

I agree with all of these, especially number one. Considering that Ringo was at the time the most popular Beatle, it was just plain stupid to tour without him, and not very respectful of their friend.

[aspinall_lover]

^^^^^^^Yes, touring without Ringo.............what was Brian Epstein thinking??  Cancel the shows and rescedule...........duh??

[Jane]

This fact also depresses me. I believe they should have waited for Ringo to recover. They seem to have been treating their drummers in rather a poor way. First Pete Best got the kick, then Ringo was left behind. Maybe again they were plotting to get rid of the drummer, secretely hoping that he would not return, being offended, those plotters! I tend to believe it until the supposition is proved otherwise.

[Bobber]

I tend to believe it until the supposition is proved otherwise.

Well, he came back. That's prove enough to me.

[mr vandebilt]

Its sad that they toured Oz without Ringo but it would of been far sadder for the thousands of Australians who never would of had the oppertunity of seeing their heroes perform.

I think Revoloution is by far Johns best political song much better than blah blah give peace a chance (ooh contraversal opinion that john)

[fendertele]

Its sad that they toured Oz without Ringo but it would of been far sadder for the thousands of Australians who never would of had the oppertunity of seeing their heroes perform.

I think Revoloution is by far Johns best political song much better than blah blah give peace a chance (ooh contraversal opinion that john)

But the thing is John, Paul and George is not everyones heroes and there would be just as many Ringo fans at that time wanting to see him aswell, plus is going to see the Queen without Freddie the same? or Led Zep reunion without Plant the same ?, they paid to see The Beatles and didn't get The Beatles.

The right thing to do would have been to postpone the gig and returned when they where a foursome again, i know what youre saying would have been sad at the time but it would have been worth the wait to see them all together.

I had the chance to see blur back in early 2003 but decided not to go as Coxon wasnt inthe lineup and they had replaced him with another guitarist, it would have been the same songs and maybe sounded close but it wouldnt have had the magic and chemistry that comes with years of playing together.

[mr vandebilt]

But the thing is John, Paul and George is not everyones heroes and there would be just as many Ringo fans at that time wanting to see him aswell, plus is going to see the Queen without Freddie the same? or Led Zep reunion without Plant the same ?, they paid to see The Beatles and didn't get The Beatles.

The right thing to do would have been to postpone the gig and returned when they where a foursome again, i know what youre saying would have been sad at the time but it would have been worth the wait to see them all together.

I had the chance to see blur back in early 2003 but decided not to go as Coxon wasnt inthe lineup and they had replaced him with another guitarist, it would have been the same songs and maybe sounded close but it wouldnt have had the magic and chemistry that comes with years of playing together.

I saw Blur in 2003 and Simon Tong was obviously no Graham but still worthwhile as they had been my favourite band while growing up and it would of been my only chance of seeing them perform(well apart from Hyde park next year). While i dont want to diminish Ringo's importance to the band, but he's hardly as important as Plant or Mercury to their respective bands.

Also the Beatles could of split up at any time so im sure the fans wouldnt take the chance of waiting for next time(which there never was), plus Beatlemania was like a feverish devotion and im sure thousands would of turned up to four cardboard cutouts of the moptops. Throughout anthology the guys are always saying how their live performance was pretty lame but im sure messers macca lennon and harrison would of upped their game with someone new in the setup(which is no slight on Ringos drumming) so maybe  the fans downunder got a better performance from the other 3 trying to impress the new drummer.

[fendertele]

I saw Blur in 2003 and Simon Tong was obviously no Graham but still worthwhile as they had been my favourite band while growing up and it would of been my only chance of seeing them perform(well apart from Hyde park next year). While i dont want to diminish Ringo's importance to the band, but he's hardly as important as Plant or Mercury to their respective bands.

Also the Beatles could of split up at any time so im sure the fans wouldnt take the chance of waiting for next time(which there never was), plus Beatlemania was like a feverish devotion and im sure thousands would of turned up to four cardboard cutouts of the moptops. Throughout anthology the guys are always saying how their live performance was pretty lame but im sure messers macca lennon and harrison would of upped their game with someone new in the setup(which is no slight on Ringos drumming) so maybe  the fans downunder got a better performance from the other 3 trying to impress the new drummer.

I have no doubt they would have turned up to a record player and four cardboard cutouts of there idols but thats but just because you can do something doesnt mean you have to or it is right, i know i could take the 5 pound my nana keeps offering me everytime i see her but i know she needs it more than me, so im the one who has to take control of the situation and assure her i dont need it.

And The Beatles should have done the same aswell, they know these fans would show up but they should realise this and do the right thing by there loyal fans and give them there full moneys worth.

Also Ringo may not have contributed musically to the band the way Mercury and Plant did to theres, but he was just as important as Plant and Mercury in drawing the crowd in, it wasnt just John and Paul doing all the interviews and doing all the promos it was all 4 and everytime you saw them on tv shows or there movies.

You may have had to become a fan first before you got to know the other members of Led Zep, Queen, Blur or Oasis but everyone knew each of The Beatles.

[mr vandebilt]

And The Beatles should have done the same aswell, they know these fans would show up but they should realise this and do the right thing by there loyal fans and give them there full moneys worth.

But isnt that a bigger slap in the face to the fans,'hey one of us cant make it so all of us are dropping out'.

Its not like it was in England or an American tour where they where likely to perform again but the other side of the planet. In a choice of tour without Ringo or no tour i guarantee that all the people who saw them in Australia would of picked the tour sans Ringo.

[fendertele]

But isnt that a bigger slap in the face to the fans,'hey one of us cant make it so all of us are dropping out'.

Its not like it was in England or an American tour where they where likely to perform again but the other side of the planet. In a choice of tour without Ringo or no tour i guarantee that all the people who saw them in Australia would of picked the tour sans Ringo.

yeah but what a said was postpone it until ringo was better not drop it completely.

[Bobber]

But isnt that a bigger slap in the face to the fans,'hey one of us cant make it so all of us are dropping out'.

Its not like it was in England or an American tour where they where likely to perform again but the other side of the planet. In a choice of tour without Ringo or no tour i guarantee that all the people who saw them in Australia would of picked the tour sans Ringo.

Don't forget they played in Denmark, the Netherlands, Hongkong (if I'm correct) as well. I think over here in Holland the fans were just happy that The Beatles were here. It didn't matter that much that Ringo didn't come along. In fact, I sometimes feel that they could have send any four guys from England!  

[alexis]

I'm in the minority here ... I've always liked the words to Revolution, I thought they were very level headed and realistic, showing John in a very positive, you-can't-fool-me-with-your-revoutionary-bullsh*t manner. Actually, I always had the feeling that he "caved" when he put the word "in" in the White Album version.

What would Yoko have thought of that?

[BlueMeanie]

yeah but what a said was postpone it until ringo was better not drop it completely.

Postpone it until when? You know what their schedule was like. Brian's masterplan didn't allow for rescheduling, as is evident by the fact that they once played a couple of nights running without John.

[Geoff]

It didn't matter that much that Ringo didn't come along. In fact, I sometimes feel that they could have send any four guys from England!  

I think John once said they could have sent out waxwork dummies of themselves for all the difference it would have made to their screaming fans.  

[Jane]

I think John once said they could have sent out waxwork dummies of themselves for all the difference it would have made to their screaming fans.  

Yes, you are absolutely right in pointing that out. Crazy fans very often don`t see the difference or even pretend not to see. A famous band can`t be everywhere they are wanted, in different places at one and the same time. So you know what they do, actually what some of them do? They send their substitutes under the same name to satisfy the audience and, certainly, to make money.
For example, there used to be a very popular group here called Sweet May with a very handsome singer. They were wanted in all parts of the country, they were being torn apart by different offers. So their producer created about 10 line-ups to send to all the places and the screaming fans either didn`t notice anything or just said, ok, after all they are called Sweet May and they sing those very songs. This is a well known fact, however I don`t know if the producer had to pay for that. Though I believe a decent band would never do such a thing. But that was a pop-group...