DM's Beatles forums
Solo forums => Fifth Beatles and the Merseybeat Scene => Topic started by: Loco Mo on January 30, 2016, 01:52:20 PM
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I was just wondering – did Pete Best ever have fantasies of revenge after being canned from the Beatles?
I know I would have. In fact I’ve thought of a few I’ll share with you.
• I would have imagined becoming bigger than them with more wealth and fame.
• After this happened, I would imagine them begging me to come back. Naturally, I would turn them down.
• After the Beatles fired me, I’d imagine that the fans got really mad at them and no longer liked them. After that happened, they’d again beg me to come back.
• I would have imagined that they dive bombed after a few hit records. Here again, they’d try to ask me back.
• Ringo would have turned out to be a really bad drummer. The Beatles would have realized this and expressed open regret in interviews that they had canned me.
• Experts would state in interviews on talk shows that I was the main reason the Beatles became famous. Fans would really start getting angry about this. The fans would say: “Wow, the Beatles fired him even though he was the one who made them popular and gave them a great musical sound. Okay, we’re not listening to the Beatles anymore and we’re never gonna buy any of their records again. Unless – and only – if they publicly apologize to Pete for what they did to him. Then we will expect them to give Pete half of their record sales to try and make it up to him.”
• Can you think of other revenge fantasies Pete may have had? I’ve written this just for fun (with all due respect to Pete) – not to be taken very seriously, really.
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The truth is that thoughts of revenge are normal. They’re a part of the process of hurt, anger and depression that follow negative events in which one feels betrayed by another person or by others as a group. Pete would have to have dealt with his emotions in their most primeval states. Depression fuels anger. Eventually unrelieved anger sinks deeply into a chronic depressive state. Occasionally, it may re-surface, especially if triggered by specific incidents or memories.
Pete attempted suicide in 1965, almost 3 years from the time he was terminated from the band. He seems to have recovered from that low point and seems to have found a stable foundation beneath all the anger and hurt that, perhaps, still lie buried within. Sometime you try to deal with feelings like this by suppressing them or pretending they don’t exist or by believing that you’ve resolved them satisfactorily.
Being a fan of the Pete Best story and his involvement in the Early Developing Beatles, I think about him from time to time and the challenges he faced since the end of his time with them.
It’s the psychology of it that intrigues me. Just how do you successfully cope with something this big and devastating? How do you heal and proceed into your future from that presumed point of healing?
A lot of questions could be asked about Pete in this respect. I think it would make for a wonderfully insightful biography on his part. It would probably be quite difficult to write to get it right. I doubt that this will ever happen. Modern day people seem to prefer movies over books so maybe one day that movie will be made – or more likely not.
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The truth is that thoughts of revenge are normal. They’re a part of the process of hurt, anger and depression that follow negative events in which one feels betrayed by another person or by others as a group. Pete would have to have dealt with his emotions in their most primeval states. Depression fuels anger. Eventually unrelieved anger sinks deeply into a chronic depressive state. Occasionally, it may re-surface, especially if triggered by specific incidents or memories.
Pete attempted suicide in 1965, almost 3 years from the time he was terminated from the band. He seems to have recovered from that low point and seems to have found a stable foundation beneath all the anger and hurt that, perhaps, still lie buried within. Sometime you try to deal with feelings like this by suppressing them or pretending they don’t exist or by believing that you’ve resolved them satisfactorily.
Being a fan of the Pete Best story and his involvement in the Early Developing Beatles, I think about him from time to time and the challenges he faced since the end of his time with them.
It’s the psychology of it that intrigues me. Just how do you successfully cope with something this big and devastating? How do you heal and proceed into your future from that presumed point of healing?
A lot of questions could be asked about Pete in this respect. I think it would make for a wonderfully insightful biography on his part. It would probably be quite difficult to write to get it right. I doubt that this will ever happen. Modern day people seem to prefer movies over books so maybe one day that movie will be made – or more likely not.
That's a good post Loco, I've been watching a few interviews with Pete recently and I always feel great sympathy for him, he never heard from John up to the time of John's death, or the others it seems.
I must admit I'd think a lot more of the boys if they'd talked to Pete and show him some respect, you know just sorry it didn't work out Pete etc etc, maybe even some financial help, they gave away bucket loads of $$$ with Apple and then John gave shed loads to all sorts of cranks when he teamed up with yoko.
But never to feel any sorrow for the guy, never even to mention him seems pretty mean to me.
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not sure why we would expect them to reach out to Pete after success etc. If you are successful at your job, there are people that along the way were part of the team that were fired or let go. If you had unbelievable success why would you reach out to people along the way that did not? You almost make it sound like the owed it to Pete.
Truth (many people's perception at least) is they may not have made it to the same place if they stayed with Pete.
The fact that he didn't make it with another band probably indicates he just wasn't good enough.
How many bands had members that were cut, didn't make it, and the band went big? Do we know this story only because it is the Beatles?
Life sucks sometimes.
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On the brink of success they just dumped him and he was never told why.
After 2 years of practically living with him in Hamburg, sleeping in vans all over the UK
Explaining to him the reason's to me would've been the human and kind thing to do, especially when he attempted suicide.
Maybe it's just me, but I'd have felt sorry for Pete and got in touch.
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I'll alter my response then. Without being one of the people involved, including managers, handlers, producers, technicians etc. we just don't know how they handled it or didn't handle it. Maybe Pete's account of it is biased some? Maybe they didn't give him the time of day. Maybe they had remorse but were being led away so quickly they didn't make the decision. Do we really know?
Back to my original post, how many band members then or now, go out with a band, play somewhere, dedicate their lives to it only to get thrown out with the bath water? Never having been in a band but guessing, I would think it is pretty common. Personality conflicts, performance, no reason. Lots of ways to have it come about. It may all suck and it may be the decent thing to do (reach out and explain) but it seemingly is a cut throat business. Unfortunate but likely not the only instance of something like that happening.
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Back to my original post, how many band members then or now, go out with a band, play somewhere, dedicate their lives to it only to get thrown out with the bath water? Never having been in a band but guessing, I would think it is pretty common. Personality conflicts, performance, no reason. Lots of ways to have it come about. It may all suck and it may be the decent thing to do (reach out and explain) but it seemingly is a cut throat business. Unfortunate but likely not the only instance of something like that happening.
Having been in a band for many many years now, this is exactly how things are going. Sometimes bandmembers leave because they don't fancy to play along any longer. Sometimes people get kicked out, because of issues of all sorts. Based on the stories, Pete was kicked out mainly because of conflicting personalities and lack of talent. That is a common reason. The main problem is that the Beatles became really big in the years after Pete's sacking. If the Beatles had failed to become successful, nobody would have cared, maybe Pete in the first place. But that's the way things go.
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Bands werent exactly lining up to sign Pete after he was sacked. That should tell you all you need to know. Instead of the self loathing, maybe he would have been better off going to the woodshed and improving on his skills.
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Bands werent exactly lining up to sign Pete after he was sacked. That should tell you all you need to know. Instead of the self loathing, maybe he would have been better off going to the woodshed and improving on his skills.
I wasn't talking of his skills as a drummer really, although I've never really accepted that he wasn't pretty good in Hamburg, they were supposedly a tight band.
I was talking about all 3 of them ignoring him after they became the biggest band in history
I like to think I would've at least got in touch to explain his sacking. I would have better feelings for them if at least one had done that.
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We did that to a guy in a band once. Gave him the push. He didn't like it. But as we soared into obscurity he probably thought he was better off in the end.
It does seem a bit callous how they cut Pete off. It seems they just didn't like him that much. Although it's suggested John got on with him ok. Maybe they were feeling guilty. Which often will stop you reaching out to someone.
I've heard it put another way. That rather than complaining he was kicked out he should be grateful he, as a not particularly good drummer, got to play with the Beatles for several years.
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We did that to a guy in a band once. Gave him the push. He didn't like it. But as we soared into obscurity he probably thought he was better off in the end.
It does seem a bit callous how they cut Pete off. It seems they just didn't like him that much. Although it's suggested John got on with him ok. Maybe they were feeling guilty. Which often will stop you reaching out to someone.
I've heard it put another way. That rather than complaining he was kicked out he should be grateful he, as a not particularly good drummer, got to play with the Beatles for several years.
Maybe they owed him a bit too
They couldn't get any drummer to stay till Pete
No drummer maybe no Hamburg..
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I wasn't talking of his skills as a drummer really, although I've never really accepted that he wasn't pretty good in Hamburg, they were supposedly a tight band.
We should ask our old-time member Djinn. He has footage of The Beatles in The Indra Club! ;D I wouldn't know. Could be. It's been said that Pete could keep track.
I was talking about all 3 of them ignoring him after they became the biggest band in history
But then again, why should they bother? They were skyrocketing into the music business. Didn't look back. Not at that time.
I like to think I would've at least got in touch to explain his sacking. I would have better feelings for them if at least one had done that.
We don't know what happened. We sacked our guitarist last year. WE wanted to explain why and all that, but HE wouldn't want to talk with us. Maybe Pete reacted similar, I can understand he didn't want to talk with The Beatles after he was sacked.
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I wasn't talking of his skills as a drummer really, although I've never really accepted that he wasn't pretty good in Hamburg, they were supposedly a tight band.
You know who was better than him though in Hamburg? Ringo Starr
I was talking about all 3 of them ignoring him after they became the biggest band in history
I like to think I would've at least got in touch to explain his sacking. I would have better feelings for them if at least one had done that.
I dont think Paul ever really liked him, John was probably to embarrassed, and George just followed the other two's coattails. Thats how I perceive it. Not much to explain about the sacking. Ringo was/is a better drummer and even Pete should know that.
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We should ask our old-time member Djinn. He has footage of The Beatles in The Indra Club! ;D
LOL That was before my time but all that did make for interesting reading one night when I was bored.
As for the question at hand, who knows what has really been simmering in the mind of Pete Best? He has managed to profit somewhat from his association with The Beatles but not, of course like he would have, had they achieved the same success with him as they did with Ringo. I think his band mates should have reached out to him in some way following his sacking. Drumming abilities aside, he did play an important role both in Hamburg and at home. But it's not surprising if they didn't.
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It's pretty clear to me they handled the sacking itself badly. They did owe Pete more as Nim said. He went to Hamburg and was part of the group that got a good reputation there.
After that it gets harder to judge easily. They were young guys on a quick ride to unprecedented fame. How do you reach out without seeming patronising? It's not like they could use him musically and give him a few sessions to help him out. That's said, given they were clearly had some contact with Mona (as the other thread on the Best medals and Sgt Peppers attests) when Pete attempted suicide I'd have thought it would have been the decent thing to reach out and offer some assistance.
The lads weren't sentimental in lots of ways. The extended Get Back tapes have the occasion when Millie Sutcliffe wrote to them seeking some sort of help. George read it out in a fairly casual manner and none of them showed much sympathy.
And then there was Ringo who seemed to make a point of not going to funerals of his friends.
Maybe it's a northern English thing. ;)
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But then again, why should they bother? They were skyrocketing into the music business. Didn't look back. Not at that time.
I guess I'm more talking about after the mad years after they ceased to be a band, what would it have cost one of them to write a letter to Pete just kinda saying something like, we thought Ringo would fit in better, sorry you got booted out but we were young lads and sometimes things seem the right thing to do, we were cowards not telling you to your face and getting Brian to do it etc..
But instead of that nothing, not even a word. I always thought it was pretty mean, but maybe that's just me.
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You know who was better than him though in Hamburg? Ringo Starr
Was he though ?
Ive listened to some of those Hamburg you tubes and Pete sounds pretty good to me
Admitably he wasn't great at the Decca audition but none of them were, like most bands the first time in a professional recording studio they were a bag of nerves, similarly at EMI, even Ron Richards has admitted that he picked on Pete a bit as he was obsessed with drummers at the time. I wouldn't have been surprised if Ringo hadn't screwed things up at first, Pete was never given a second chance though.
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I guess I'm more talking about after the mad years after they ceased to be a band, what would it have cost one of them to write a letter to Pete just kinda saying something like, we thought Ringo would fit in better, sorry you got booted out but we were young lads and sometimes things seem the right thing to do, we were cowards not telling you to your face and getting Brian to do it etc..
But instead of that nothing, not even a word. I always thought it was pretty mean, but maybe that's just me.
Of course it's mean. But it doesn't surprise me. After what they had experienced, Pete was just someone from the past.
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Was he though ?
Ive listened to some of those Hamburg you tubes and Pete sounds pretty good to me
Admitably he wasn't great at the Decca audition but none of them were, like most bands the first time in a professional recording studio they were a bag of nerves, similarly at EMI, even Ron Richards has admitted that he picked on Pete a bit as he was obsessed with drummers at the time. I wouldn't have been surprised if Ringo hadn't screwed things up at first, Pete was never given a second chance though.
Are there Hamburg tapes with Pete's drumming on it?
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Was he though ?
Ive listened to some of those Hamburg you tubes and Pete sounds pretty good to me
Admitably he wasn't great at the Decca audition but none of them were, like most bands the first time in a professional recording studio they were a bag of nerves, similarly at EMI, even Ron Richards has admitted that he picked on Pete a bit as he was obsessed with drummers at the time. I wouldn't have been surprised if Ringo hadn't screwed things up at first, Pete was never given a second chance though.
I have never, ever heard any drumming from Pete Best that has impressed me or has indicated he was as good or in the same ballpark as Ringo. Just the opposite actually. He is nothing more than a mediocre 4/4 drummer. Ringo brought much more to the table. Also, i'm not sure why people think they should have reached out to him to explain the sacking when the guy already knows the reasons. Its petty to have to hear it from somebody else's mouth. Life sucks and people get sh*t on everyday. Move on. To sit around feeling sorry for yourself your entire life is just pathetic. I dont feel the least bit sorry for Pete Best. A rather crappy drummer thats name will forever be remembered and who has benefited for years due to an unfortunate situation. If only we could all be so lucky.
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AND what possible story line would Help have followed if Pete had remained...
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Maybe Birth of the Beatles was Pete's revenge?
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i'm not sure why people think they should have reached out to him to explain the sacking when the guy already knows the reasons. Its petty to have to hear it from somebody else's mouth. Life sucks and people get sh*t on everyday.
Nothing really to say to answer that Todd except I'm glad I don't live in your world.
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Nothing really to say to answer that Todd except I'm glad I don't live in your world.
He was a drummer in a band that got fired. Sure the band went on to have success, but its such a small part of actual life and Pete Best let it consume him, so much so that he almost killed himself. That's pathetic.
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All this being said though, this is a good album.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/Haymans_Green.JPG)
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Was he though ?
Ive listened to some of those Hamburg you tubes and Pete sounds pretty good to me
Admitably he wasn't great at the Decca audition but none of them were, like most bands the first time in a professional recording studio they were a bag of nerves, similarly at EMI, even Ron Richards has admitted that he picked on Pete a bit as he was obsessed with drummers at the time. I wouldn't have been surprised if Ringo hadn't screwed things up at first, Pete was never given a second chance though.
Interestingly I was just listening to a podcast where they interviewed the authors of a new book on Ringo and his contribution to the Beatles. One of the authors (clearly a Liverpudlian from his accent and a drummer himself ) saw the Beatles at the Cavern a lot with Pete on drums. He said Pete was a very basic drummer but unusually powerful for the time. He hit the drums very hard which contributed to the Beatles dynamic live sound. As long as the Beatles were playing straight up rock live it seems he was a good fit . Ringo was just a different animal. Much more experienced and versatile. He'd played with more bands and was in demand for his skills. He concluded that it's very unlikely Pete could have done what Ringo later did in the studio. Ringo could rise to whatever challenge was thrown at him.
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Interestingly I was just listening to a podcast where they interviewed the authors of a new book on Ringo and his contribution to the Beatles. One of the authors (clearly a Liverpudlian from his accent and a drummer himself ) saw the Beatles at the Cavern a lot with Pete on drums. He said Pete was a very basic drummer but unusually powerful for the time. He hit the drums very hard which contributed to the Beatles dynamic live sound. As long as the Beatles were playing straight up rock live it seems he was a good fit .
That's exactly what ive heard from my ex Searchers mate
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Interesting footnote to this thread
The difference between Paul & John talking about Pete, Paul comes over a nice guy even that he;s in touch with the Bests and saying it was nice that Pete got money from Anthology 1 etc
Whereas John slags him off and comes over as the bully I always thought of him as, no reason to slag Pete off like that, calling him a sh*tty drummer (you dont say that even if true, theres a thing called humanity). in fact he comes over as the way he once describes The Beatles, as big Bastards. He forgot to mention though that it was only him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTFGXD00OLw# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTFGXD00OLw#)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H_SUTWs3qk# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H_SUTWs3qk#)
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I caught the documentary on Sgt Pepper that just came out on iTunes. Pete was one of the talking heads being used throughout. He looked relaxed, in great shape, and talked how he was glad to have just been a small part of the phenomena that went on to do Sgt Pepper. He related the story of John using his family medals on the album shoot.
It was nice to see him being used in a positive way rather than as an antagonist.