DM's Beatles forums
Solo forums => Ringo Starr => Topic started by: Bobber on April 05, 2007, 11:47:06 AM
-
I'm having a discussion elsewhere about Ringo's and Pete Best's time on stage with The Beatles. I'm stating that Pete spent more time on stage with The Beatles than Ringo did. Just look at all the Hamburg and Cavern hours (plus lunchtime sessions). That went on somewhat in late '62 and early '63, but since then it's just the half an hour routine sets that The Beatles were playing. But I seem to be the only one who thinks that Pete spent more time on stage with The Beatles. What do you think?
-
Interesting topic. It would involve math, which I'm too lazy to do. But roughly:
6 hrs/day for each Hamburg day. If you want to get really granular, you'd have to add more for the nights they had to stay longer, but there is no real good record of actual hours played, as far as I know.
1/2 hour for each official Beatles tour after 64 or so. I think in 63 they still were doing 45-min sets and 2-hour sets along with shorter ones, depending on the venue. For the Helen S tour, I think it was 15 minutes each appearance. Then you have to figure how many houses per night. O_o
EVERYTHING ELSE. Holy cow, the tours these guys did. I think you'd need a record of Brian's appt book. The Beatles did 3 appearances a day sometimes. Before "Love Me Do", it was mostly live stage appearances. Afterwards, would you add in television appearances as "on stage"? If yes, would you include the mimed ones, since they weren't really playing? So many angles to consider. An interesting problem.
-
I would include only live on stage concerts. Don't forget Ringo did a few sessions in Hamburg too.
My gut feeling is that Bobber is right, but lordy, some anoraks going to have to sit down and work this out. Mines at the cleaners at the mo.
-
I think Bobber's right. But I'm not going to sit down and try to prove it!
-
Bobber's caught an interesting topic!
This is something i've never thought about and i'm considering
you may be right!
-
Hmmmmmm....... would be cool to know!
-
Whenever I got some spare time on my hands, I will sit down and count with Mark Lewisohn...
-
Whenever I got some spare time on my hands, I will sit down and count with Mark Lewisohn...
Better to try to contact Mr. L. I bet he doesn't have the exact figures but he'll have a very good idea. Basically, if he doesn't know then nobody does.
-
I'm up to December 1960 and so far Pete is in the lead.
-
Whahoo! We should start a pool.
-
Pete 234 - Ringo 100 ;D
-
I'm up to December 1960 and so far Pete is in the lead.
;D
-
Does anybody know how long the lunchtime concert in the Cavern usually took?
-
Wow, I just read this somewhere-- I think it was in Cyn's book John. She's talking about how the girls would get made up and rush over to be there by 1, but then they had to get back by... ??? (To be at their desks for the afternoon's work). I'd say probably no more than an hour, maybe 45 minutes actually on stage? I'll have to get that book out of the library again and check.
-
I reckon 45 minutes. No more.
-
Does anybody know how long the lunchtime concert in the Cavern usually took?
Okay, Bobber, I checked the library yesterday. No love. I checked Cynthia's book John, Elizabeth Partridge's book on John, and Ray Coleman's book Lennon. None of them contained the anecdote which I know I read somewhere recently. It describes a young office worker getting ready for a cavern session, rushing over there, and returning to her desk before the boss got too mad. Since I couldn't find it in any of the previous books, I assume it must be in Goldman's Lives of John Lennon. Unfortunately, that book is in a different library.
Ray Coleman did have an interesting anecdote from a former Cavern girl, now the manager of the Beatles store in Liverpool. According to her, the Cavern sessions began at noon. She and her girlfriends would get ready to leave about 11:45 a.m. Depending on what ferry they made, they could get there shortly after 12 or, if they missed the first ferry, they would get there at 12:40 p.m. The woman is quoted as describing it was "worth it". This blows my 45-minute session theory. I can't imagine all that work would be "worth it" for a 45-minute session if they only caught the last 5 minutes. Therefore I assume that the Beatles must have been on at least until 1 p.m., possibly longer.
I'll see if I can find that interview with the former office worker. She did give the exact time that she had to be back at her desk. I'm pretty sure it was probably 2 p.m., particularly if the cavern sessions began at noon.
Good luck! I really want to hear your results. Cheers!
-
^Thanks for the work. I'll count an hour for every lunchtime session.
-
Hari: If she was an office worker she would definately not have been given more than an hour for lunch. And if she was regularly late back she would eventually have been fired. Lunchtime would - for most people - have been for one hour between 12 and 2. So I'm guessing that they may have done 2 sets of, say 45 minutes each. Only a guess, mind.
It may say in the Anthology book. I'll have a look later.
-
Thanks, BM! I was also wondering if the Beatles did more than one set. I'm sure this must be documented somewhere. The question is, where? *flails*
-
I don't really keep up with books about The Beatles, so I don't know, but maybe there's a book about The Cavern? Or did Mal Evans ever write a book?
-
I've e-mailed The Cavern Club. Let you know what they say.
-
^Great idea! *bows to you*
-
Here's what The Cavern Club said in their reply:
"The sessions went from 12 til 3 as a rule to get the office workers and school kids on their lunch hour. The bands played 45 minutes to an hour depending on however many bands were on sometimes one band would play two sets. There are no records available showing particular line ups and times for specific bands."
-
Ah! That is great. So I guess if The Beatles were the only band during a lunchtime session, I can count two hours. If there's another band scheduled along with The Beatles, I'll count one hour. That's fair, isn't it?
-
Sounds like the logical thing to do. But how do you know if there were other bands? Lewisohn rarely mentions them. But he does say this on 22 January 1962:
"The lunchtime spot at The Cavern Club was the first of five experimental one hour sessions, half the usual duration."
-
Sounds like the logical thing to do. But how do you know if there were other bands? Lewisohn rarely mentions them. But he does say this on 22 January 1962:
"The lunchtime spot at The Cavern Club was the first of five experimental one hour sessions, half the usual duration."
It's those kind of remarks that I must try to hold on to. There's a lot of gigs that are clueless about the duration. Hamburg is quite obvious, but how long did they play on a random Saturday night at the Litherland Town Hall?
-
It's those kind of remarks that I must try to hold on to. There's a lot of gigs that are clueless about the duration. Hamburg is quite obvious, but how long did they play on a random Saturday night at the Litherland Town Hall?
You can only approximate. If they were playing on their own call it 2 one hour sets. On a bill with other bands I'd say 45 minutes.
-
Bobber, keep track of all this research. You should publish a paper! :)
-
Here's a cute clip of fan memories. These two Cavern dwellers give more evidence that the sets might have been an hour: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlM6Ms6YWbk
About 3 minutes in, the 2 fans talk about 1 of them fainting, and she had to wait "about an hour" for her friend to join her-- who was not about to miss the Beatles!
I'm looking forward to your research results. Cheers.
-
Oh, I'm still busy. Up to February 1961 and Pete is still in front. Thanks a lot for that link by the way! These are links by maccalennon: see his comments on the Films Section.
-
I was hoping to sort this out while I was on holiday, but I was too busy playing midgetgolf with the kids. ;D Results expected pretty soon tho.
-
I was hoping to sort this out while I was on holiday, but I was too busy playing midgetgolf with the kids. ;D Results expected pretty soon tho.
I used to love playing that when I was a kid. But as I grew into an adult I progressed to the real thing. Pitch and Putt!!;D
-
The Beatles in Hamburg: they played night after night, right?
-
I only know they played every night at The Kaiserkeller on their first visit. I imaginr that by the time they'd worked their way up to The Star Club, they might have had a night off now and then. But somehow I doubt it.
-
According to Lewisohn they did play every night. In the Indra Club they played for 5.5 hours a night. Later on, in the Kaiserkeller, they were joined on the bill by Rory Storm and the Hurricanes. Can I say they played for four hours each?
-
Four hours each sounds about right to me.
-
Alright, I started counting! ;D
In 1960 alone, Pete spent approximately 500 hours on stage with the Beatles. Now, Ringo played with the Beatles from August 1962 till the very end, but he did a lot of (not even) 30 minutes shows. He has to put 1,000 shows against Pete's 1960 performances alone. But I will keep on counting.
-
Alright, I started counting! ;D
In 1960 alone, Pete spent approximately 500 hours on stage with the Beatles. Now, Ringo played with the Beatles from August 1962 till the very end, but he did a lot of (not even) 30 minutes shows. He has to put 1,000 shows against Pete's 1960 performances alone. But I will keep on counting.
In fact Ringo would have to play 15 gigs in 1964 to match one night of Pete's in Germany.
-
Yay, you're counting, yay!
According to Lewisohn they did play every night. In the Indra Club they played for 5.5 hours a night. Later on, in the Kaiserkeller, they were joined on the bill by Rory Storm and the Hurricanes. Can I say they played for four hours each?
I'm reading Paul's biography now. According to Barry Miles, yes, the Beatles did play 4 hours/night at the Kaiserkeller. He even gives the set times. Cheers!
-
I guessed that right. And according to Mark Lewisohn they played every night. So, does anybody think that Ringo can beat that?
-
Um, do we get to count the times that Ringo played with them in Hamburg, either the 1 or 2 times Pete couldn't make it, or just clowning around? That would make Ringo only a million and eight hours behind Pete instead of a million sixteen...
-
Ringo played with the Beatles in Hamburg at the Star Club. Long nights too, but not as long as two years earlier with Pete Best. Plus they were only there for a week or so. Two weeks maybe, have to check that.
-
So, you thought we'd all forget about it, did you? ;)
-
It seemed appropriate, one year on, to remind you of your duty, Mr. Bobber! ;)
-
Oh dear.