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Solo forums => John Lennon => Topic started by: Sondra on June 08, 2004, 02:44:18 AM

Title: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Sondra on June 08, 2004, 02:44:18 AM
Well, I posted this yesterday, but it mysteriously disapeared! So here I am again. I was watchng the Beatles Anthology and the part came on where Brian Epstein died. Well, seeing how devastated John was made me wonder how differently he would have reacted than Paul did if it were Paul who had been shot.  Paul's response was so flip and he has never really seemed too broken up about it in any interview since. I just get the feeling that Lennon would have reacted with a whole lot more passion and outrage than McCartney. I feel like he would have been devastated and it would have been a catalyst for John becoming involved in gun control or something to that effect. I don't know. Anyway, I was wondering what you all thought. Someone responded yesterday w/ a good point about Paul's reaction to Linda's death too. But again, was DELETED!
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Sondra on June 08, 2004, 04:13:46 AM
I've seen Paul talk about it and talk about it, and I know as he has explained many times about his "It's a Drag' comment, but I just never felt that he really expressed himself fully. I'm sure he was upset, he said the family sat around the t.v all day and cried, but I think he must not really be able to show that much emotion about these things. He's even said himself that when his mom died he said, "what are we going to do about money now." So it's probably a guard of some sort.
I know it's pointless to speculate how Lennon would react, but I just wonder. Curious. The man was so emotionally charged. His grief would probably have been more public. Just a hypothetical that crossed my mind.
Funny though how people usually focus on Paul's reaction. Does anyone even remember how the other two responded? I don't. Just that Ringo flew to NY to be there for Yoko. Not that she wanted him.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: ringorama on June 08, 2004, 07:19:45 AM
That's a good question. I honestly have never seen Paul or any of the others talk about John's death. To stick up for Paul, in his position I'd think it has to be nearly impossible to publicly be torn up over anything. Reporters are hell, and there's only so much you can stand. I think Paul had to be strong because he couldn't get to the point where the reporters could just walk all over him. We may not have seen it, but honestly, he's not heartless, John and Him were amazingly close for so many years, I'm sure the fact that John died was very hard for him to handle. And many people have different strategies for coping with loosing someone, maybe Paul's is to close up, you know, act tough so no one sees how he's really feeling. I dono, its all my opinion, more like my guessing what's going on in Paul's mind. And about how John would have acted, well, John was a very passionate man who spoke for what he believed in. He also said he had great defenses because he was the type of guy who didn't know how to cry. So I'm not sure you'd see John openly torn up over it either. I can imagine John would have started something for gun control and tied it in with Paul.

The only reason people are so busy with Paul's responce is because people knew that by the time the Beatles split John and Paul had their share of arguments, and anger towards each other, and so people take it upon themselves to question Paul's reaction.

[Peace]-ringorama-
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Wayne L. on June 08, 2004, 10:32:50 AM
I know some Beatles fans were offended when Paul made his now infamous comment " It's a drag. " after John's murder since it seemed so flippant but I understand where he was coming from over 20 years later. If it would have been Paul that would have got killed instead of John back in 80 it would have been like a hit to the gut to me personally as a dedicated Beatles fan just like Lennon.  I think John would have been for gun control since he was already before his death except not as much as he was as an anti-war activist while he would have possibly retired from the music business for good after one more album & one major tour.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: on June 08, 2004, 07:02:21 PM
I've read where Paul explains his "It's a drag." comment. He did say other things after John died - "I can't tell you how much it hurts to lose him. His death is a bitter cruel blow. I really loved the guy."
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Sondra on June 09, 2004, 03:06:45 AM
I'm sure Paul was devastated, after all it was him who kept showing up at Lennon's after they broke up. We've just never seen it. That's ok! I know some people keep those things very private. But what's up w/ the recent changing of their names around? I know how he must feel, but he knows how it will look and how people will question his motives. Also, why does he have to go around telling people that Yoko came on to him first and then went to John when he turned her down? It's things like that that make me wonder about him sometimes!
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: pc31 on June 09, 2004, 03:45:16 AM
we would have been better off if it was paul.......
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: ringorama on June 09, 2004, 04:19:38 AM
Honestly, we would have been better off if neither of them had died. My mind boggles at the music that could have come about if Paul and John had kept trying to show each other up. It would have been seriousally amazing!

I understand where you're coming from on the name thing. That really doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, John's dead, leave it in peace!

[Peace]-ringorama-
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Sondra on June 09, 2004, 04:27:50 AM
I think he should leave all Beatle things alone. He can't win when he messes with it because it means too much to too many! Anyway, it's not right to do major changes without all four consenting and since two can no longer be consulted he needs to just leave it alone and let it be!
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: pc31 on June 10, 2004, 10:20:07 AM
what would it take for the beatles to be reunited???????2 more bullets..
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: ringorama on June 10, 2004, 07:54:06 PM
Oh come on Pc, that jokes old and holdes no ground anymore, back when George was alive and it was 3 more bullets that's when it was a better joke.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: ringorama on June 10, 2004, 08:20:03 PM
Touche, mister charlie, I never liked the joke, myself, my brother tells it all the time, but I'm just saying, if you're gonna tell a joke like that at least let it have some credibility.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: ringorama on June 11, 2004, 07:20:31 AM
You make yet another good point MC, anyway getting past the joke and back the the original topic at hand...what if it had been Paul?
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: JohnLennon on June 14, 2004, 10:34:03 AM
If it had of been Paul we would finally know that he walrus was truly dead
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: JohnLennon on June 14, 2004, 10:34:17 AM
and that would be sad
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: on July 14, 2004, 08:27:37 PM
If it had been Paul it would have been just as big a news item, but I think it was even moreso because of John's life and politics. It's almost like you'd expect a tragic end like that more with regard to John.

On a personal level, what I miss most is that John spoke his mind (like I do), which I related to - and I miss that "down to earth guy". Paul, on the other hand, is complete "public relations" and doesn't "wear his heart on his sleeve" (as someone else pointed out). In that regard, it wouldn't have affected me as hard.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Frightwolf on July 18, 2004, 03:43:44 AM
If anyone, like me, has SEEN the interview, he looked p*ssed the whole interview.  At the beginning in response to his reaction to Lennon's death, he goes, "Very shocked, you know -- this is terrible news," but he says it with not much emotion.  He looks p*ssed at the news reporters, and at the end says, "Drag, isn't it? Alright, cheers." and walks away.  He prolly did NOT want to talk to those guys at all.

So if you actually see it, it's not that shocking, plus a news report says that he said that Lennon would be remembered for his world peace efforts.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Beatle Ed on July 18, 2004, 04:33:44 PM
Its totally unfair to judge a person based on their grief. Everyone grieves diffrently. I don't think for a second that Paul was anything less than devestated when John was killed.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: on July 18, 2004, 05:22:29 PM
I agree. Sure, when the news first reported in 1980 that all Paul said was "It's a drag" it came off differently. Just like things read when posted here - you can't get the real feel behind it. Paul was obviously in no mood to deal with reporters when John died, and he wasn't about to give them the satisfaction of watching him break down. I'm sure he was completely destroyed by it.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Frightwolf on July 18, 2004, 05:42:20 PM
[quote by=Frightwolf link=Blah.pl?b=lennon,m=1086662658,s=20 date=1090122224]If anyone, like me, has SEEN the interview, he looked p*ssed the whole interview.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Joost on July 18, 2004, 07:16:08 PM
I think that if Paul was shot instead of John, Paul would be the most popular Beatle right now. Cause when you say 'Paul McCartney', most people think of a 60+ guy that plays golden oldies shows and writes vegetarian cookbooks, and if you say 'John Lennon', most people think of this almost mythical legend that remains young forever.

That's just one of the positive sides of dying young. People remember you differently. James Dean is remembered as one of the most attractive men of all times, Marlon Brando as an old fat guy. Same with Marilyn Monroe and Brigitte Bardot. And imagine if Elvis would have died ten years earlier...
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: The End on July 19, 2004, 12:07:12 PM
[quote by=Biscuit_Power link=Blah.pl?b=lennon,m=1086662658,s=25 date=1090178168]IThat's just one of the positive sides of dying young. People remember you differently. James Dean is remembered as one of the most attractive men of all times, Marlon Brando as an old fat guy. Same with Marilyn Monroe and Brigitte Bardot. And imagine if Elvis would have died ten years earlier...[/quote]

You've got a point there BP. Debbie Harry did a song with Blondie called Die Young, Stay Pretty which sums up your sentiment - and look at HER now!
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Sadie4 on July 19, 2004, 04:30:38 PM
 The only thing I think could have happened had it been Paul is that he would have taken all the honours. Paul was the soul of the group, the leader, ther eal master behind the songs, the genius who composed yesterday... We all know how dead people become saints...
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: number14 on July 20, 2004, 02:50:23 AM
I think if it would have been paul if someone said the beatles they would think paul mccartney instead of john lennon, i guess john lennon is more popular because he got shot.  if it wouldve been paul it wouldve been worse, and john would take it a different way then what paul did, i cant see how you think you blame paul for saying the drag quote. he was feeling sad and mad all at the same time and did not want to deal with reporters, i wouldve done the same thing.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Sadie4 on July 20, 2004, 06:03:52 PM
 I disagree. To say that it is much better not to say anything and avoid questions...
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: on July 20, 2004, 08:59:05 PM
But the whole thing about John is that he was all for "peace" and was very political. In addition to losing a great musician, the irony of his murder was that he campaigned against violence and all of that. If any of the other Beatles had been shot instead, it would have been just as tragic, but the whole "stigma" of John's death was who he was, and his personality. Just like a Martin Luther King or a JFK. No offense to Paul, but he didn't have that aura or that sense of being controversial. 
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Frightwolf on July 20, 2004, 09:47:30 PM
Gandhi (I'm sorry I misspelled it... I got home from Marching Band and am exhausted), Malcolm X, John Lennon, JFK, Martin Luther King, Jesus... all advocators of peace.  All murdered.

Why the hell?!?!
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: sexy sadie on July 21, 2004, 01:28:40 AM
it would have been weird if it was paul, because of the whole "paul is dead" rumors years earlier. once he dies, it finally will be true...i agree on the whole reacting differently to his death thing. even though paul & john did argue before he died, paul probably feels deeply saddned and he'll always have the feeling of losing his best friend. :'(
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: SieLiebtDich on August 31, 2004, 11:16:31 PM
I thought George and ringo were more close to John after they broke up.....not Paul.....
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: strawb3rryfi3ldsfor3ver on December 28, 2004, 01:26:51 AM
...it'd still be really sad. I don't think that Paul's "death" would've had the same exact impact, but it would've been just as awful and devistating.

And about Paul's whole..."It's a drag." comment, you'd think -- John Lennon, his friend, once-long-time writing partner, they were like brothers -- he'd rather just let it lay, and not have the press twisting it up in some long definitive "John Lennon 1940-1980" article, right? Instead of saying loads of things...we know he loved John, and obviously it would've hurt him a lot. It's hard to just go back and think about these things.

...that was my ripped-off corner of a dollar in -- not enough of anything interesting to be two cents.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Mairi on December 28, 2004, 05:38:16 PM
Had it been Paul, he would be the "cool" Beatle. John is kind of immortal right now and never really got to the point where he was considered old. People can still wonder "what if?" about John.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Because on March 02, 2005, 06:49:18 AM
this is an interesting topic to pose, but in actuality, why would it ever be paul? look at who john was, what he did. he was much more than a musician, he was an icon. ringo had more of a chance of getting shot than paul. but anyway, i digress. everyone grieves in their own way, paul's way is a more private one so it appears.
Title: Re: What if it had been Paul?
Post by: Mairi on March 04, 2005, 09:55:33 PM
How do you figure Ringo could have been shot more easily than Paul?