Topic: Gotta Serve Somebody -> Serve Yourself (Read 8127 times)

Sondra · « **Reply #20 on:** August 24, 2005, 05:06:52 AM »

If stuff like that didn't motivate John to write, then we probably wouldn't have half the Lennon songs we have now. He was an artist. They have strange quirks like that. He probably thought Dylan was a hypocrite. Which some might think he is anyway.

Mairi · « **Reply #21 on:** August 24, 2005, 05:32:52 AM »

Well, that's what Imagine was all about, wasn't it.

Sondra · « **Reply #22 on:** August 24, 2005, 05:47:30 AM »

What? You mean the whole religion thing?

Mairi · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2005, 05:50:46 AM »

Mairi · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2005, 05:51:45 AM »

John could be a real jerk when it came to religion. *sigh* great guy but...

Sondra · « **Reply #25 on:** August 24, 2005, 05:56:18 AM »

Yeah, I think he was pretty much an agnostic. Not an atheist like a lot of people think. That and he probably was questioning things. I think with Dylan, and the whole born again thing, was a little much for him to get around. Now Bob's back to being jewish. He was obviously not too sure about things himself. I wonder if John would have put this song out. He might have ended up thinking it was a bit much himself for all we know.

Mairi · « **Reply #26 on:** August 24, 2005, 06:02:32 AM »

Yeah, he was pretty conflicted about the whole thing, I think. Ironic considering he was such a peace crusader and that's basically what most religions promote.

Sondra · « **Reply #27 on:** August 24, 2005, 06:08:03 AM »

Except for all the killing in the name of God. That's kind of confusing. I mean, why would God want you to kill people to get them to live his way of life and all. Sort of strange how much violence there's been because of organized religion.

Mairi · « **Reply #28 on:** August 24, 2005, 06:11:52 AM »

The thing to remember, though, is that
It ain't necessarily so, it ain't necessarily so
De t'ings dat yo' li'ble to read in de Bible
It ain't necessarily so

Li'l David was small, but oh my
Li'l David was small, but oh my
He fought big Goliath
who lay down and dieth
Li'l David was small, but oh my

Oh, Jonah, he lived in de whale
Oh, Jonah, he lived in de whale
Fo' he made his home in dat fish's abdomen
Oh, Jonah, he lived in de whale

Li'l Moses was found in a stream
Li'l Moses was found in a stream
He floated on water
Til Ole Pharoah's daughter
She fished him, she says, from that stream

It ain't necessarily so, it ain't necessarily so
Dey tell all you chillun de debble's a villun
But it ain't necessarily so.

To get into Hebben don't snap for a sebben
Live clean, don have no fault
Oh, I takes dat gospel
Whenever it's pos'ble
But wid a grain of salt

Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
But who calls dat livin'
when no gal will give in
To no man what's nine hundred years?

I'm preachin' dis sermon to show
It ain't nessa, ain't nessa, ain't nessa, ain't nessa
Ain't necessarily so.

I mean, the Bible has been translated so many times that things have been jumbled. The whole gay thing has been misinterpreted, IMO. It was the whole "sex is only for reproduction" thing.

Sondra · « **Reply #29 on:** August 24, 2005, 06:16:29 AM »

Of course. That's why organized religion isn't always the way to go. The so called religous leaders tend to pervert the scriptures into whatever suits their agenda. I sort of like what John said about Jesus and his disciples. Kind of cuts to the point. I'm not saying all organized religion is bad, of course it's great for many people, but you have to be smart about what goes on and what is taught in the name of God.

Mairi · « **Reply #30 on:** August 24, 2005, 06:21:47 AM »

Well, I think you can, y'know, follow an organized religion even though you disagree with some of its doctrines. Like I'm Catholic, but I think there should be women priests and gays should be allowed to marry outside the church. By working from the inside, maybe some of the changes can be made. In fact I was just reading in the paper last month about a woman priest who was.. uh... i forget the word, but she was made a priest anyway.

Sondra · « **Reply #31 on:** August 24, 2005, 06:30:25 AM »

Yeah, and the whole birth control thing should be addressed too. I also think priests and nuns should be able to marry. I think they've relaxed a bit about divorce though but I'm not sure. When my mom got remarried, she couldn't get married in the 'eyes of God' because she was excommunicated for getting divorced. Like she should have stayed with her abusive ex-husband just because the church frowned upon that sort of thing. I alse think the abortion issue needs to be rethought. I mean, if a woman is raped or something that should be allowed. Of course if you're willing the practice the religion but only follow the rules that suit you, it's a different story. I'm not trying to be down on religion or anything at all, just debating. Of course this is always a touchy topic, but I think discussion is healthy. I mean, it helps me see a new perspective anyway. I admire your beliefs Mairi, and I wish I was that sure in mine. I used to be, but I don't know what happened.

Mairi · « **Reply #32 on:** August 24, 2005, 06:37:28 AM »

My opinion on the whole abortion/birth control is that it's better to do that than have a child grow up in a home without love, or die a slow death in one of those African countries. Because it's not only the white population that follows these beliefs. I think we need to ease into it slowly because of course they don't have the smae views as us on these types of things.

And thank you for not being rude or insenitive. It is de rigour to diss religion these days (Christianity and Catholcism in particular) so it's refreshing to see someone who doesn't subscribe to either extreme.

Indica · « **Reply #33 on:** August 24, 2005, 09:43:14 AM »

I think it's all a tad old fashioned.
Yeah, Christianity is helping, but it's also raking in the cash at the same time!
Like I said, I'm dead set against such power.
I think it's all a tad easy y'know..heaven....everyone being together somewhere..The savior dying..etc.. . all of that I think is Disney..but the basic teachings..Do not kill..etc etc..are obviously needed in any society.

Bobber · « **Reply #34 on:** August 24, 2005, 09:58:11 AM »

Millions of people have been killed in the name of God and all kind of religions. The church as it is today has explained the words and meaning of Jesus just for their own good, IMHO. The Christian church is as middle-aged as the Islam in some points. I'm pretty negative about this, don't mean to offend however. Like Indy, I think the ten commitments (originally fifteen, did you know that?) are the base of every modern society.

Kevin · « **Reply #35 on:** August 24, 2005, 11:31:30 AM »

My 2 cents worth.
As far as I know every human society that has walked this planet has found the need to have a god/gods. All of them. Whether it's a spiritual or evolutionary need it is very strong. I am a total disbeliver, but confess to praying very sincerly in moments of crisis.
Very few wars have actually been fought over religious doctrine (it usually boils down to good old territory, like competing bands of chimps) , but I do not find it unsuprising that it is the banner which most people can identify with and rally around.
Don't steal, kill or be greedy are pretty common sense rules for any group of humans wanting to get on.

The End · « **Reply #36 on:** August 24, 2005, 11:37:03 AM »

Quote from: tkitna

Exactly! Why did John feel that he had to ridicule somebodys faith out in the open? I think it made him look like a jerk. He wasnt to keen on Dylan anyways and I think it was a personal attack. Nothing unusual for john.

My point is that it was never John's intention for that track to be released, so in effect it was a private thought. I don't know why Yoko felt it was in everyone's interest to hear it though.

Indica · « **Reply #37 on:** August 24, 2005, 12:11:18 PM »

Well, we all know Yoko has moved away from the Bagism...and is into her new groove - Capitalism.

(Here is some Avante Gard Art for you Ono

)

Mairi · « **Reply #38 on:** August 24, 2005, 02:18:34 PM »

Quote from: Bobber

Millions of people have been killed in the name of God and all kind of religions. The church as it is today has explained the words and meaning of Jesus just for their own good, IMHO. The Christian church is as middle-aged as the Islam in some points. I'm pretty negative about this, don't mean to offend however. Like Indy, I think the ten commitments (originally fifteen, did you know that?) are the base of every modern society.

But you know, if people weren't killing in the name of religion, they would find some other excuse. It's human nature. We are essentially evil.

And I don't think any of those things are "easy answers" in the least. It's not easy to accept that Jesus died because of us... and the people who betrayed him... it's not easy to accpet these things without solid proof. It's a matter of faith, whether you have it or not.
Jesus taught about peace and acceptance, and maybe some people have used the power of the church for selfish reasons, but I feel it is my generation's duty to work out those things and bring Christianity back to what it was meant to be... acceptance of all. Jesus befriended theives and prostitutes and forgave a murderer as they both died on the cross.
I don't see anything wrong with following a religion that teaches the same basic principles that I believe in. I want to be as good a person as I can be, and maybe I have no self-discipline, I need some guidance.
If religion is not for you then that's fine, but I see no need to do away with it completely, as there are those who do believe and take great comfort in it.

Bobber · « **Reply #39 on:** August 24, 2005, 02:32:01 PM »

Oh, I do respect those who follow the rules of Christianity. And I do believe in a God. But it's not my direction to go and practice it in the way the Catholic church (or any other church) explains it. It's my opinion that it's damaged too much, too many lies, too many people killed (and not just in wars. People were burnt alive because they didn't believe in a way the church wanted them to. And it has never been excused in a proper way, as far as I know). That's not my piece of cake. It's a beautiful thing if you believe it's the task of your generation to bring back the acceptance of all. I really mean that I wish you all the best with that and sincerely hope you will succeed. It's a good thing you find your guidance in that. I mean, basically we believe in the same things, right. It's just that I find my guidance in my own belief.
This WAS a thread about serving yourself, right? Amen.

News:

Author Topic: Gotta Serve Somebody -> Serve Yourself (Read 8127 times)

Bobber

Bobber